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to remove pleats

22K views 17 replies 5 participants last post by  zegnamtl 
#1 ·
removing trouser pleats
the opening of the pleat indicate the direction the cloth will move when the pleat opens.
the dotted lines show the pleats opened, this is the cloth to be removed.
the reverse pleat shows that the side pockets must be removed and be replaced.
notice that the crease has not changed. it is one with the edge of the pleat.
the regular pleat shows that the excess cloth is at the front.
when the excess cloth is removed at the front the crease is also stable.
in either case the excess cloth is unfolded out and cut off.
cutting that front is a job that most tailors hate to do and would rather cut the side.
but cutting the side in this case would pull the crease line far to the side.
the effect would be as though the trouser front was cut bias [at an angle] not good.



Alex Di Pietropaolo
 
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#3 ·
quote:Originally posted by WA

Alex- that is a lot of work.

You sure it wouldn't be easier to make new pants from scatch?
reverse pleats not so bad.the pocket is removed as a unit and replaced. but the foreward pleat makes it a major job. the time involved is what you pay for makes it a very large cost. but then it depends on what the suit is worth to you.

Alex Di Pietropaolo
 
#4 ·
Have you ever cut the cloth for pleats one direction and then reversed the pleat direction?

You change the pattern only down to the knee? What are your thoughts about going to the bottom?

About front forks- do you like long or short front forks?

So far I think the longs are better than the shorts. I do like the way the legs fall with the shorts I have used in formulas pattern making. But the fit of the pants from the crotch up seems to be more comfortable with the long front forks. Now that I nearly got myself confuse in writing this last paragraph I quit.
 
#5 ·
quote:Originally posted by WA

Have you ever cut the cloth for pleats one direction and then reversed the pleat direction?

You change the pattern only down to the knee? What are your thoughts about going to the bottom?

About front forks- do you like long or short front forks?

So far I think the longs are better than the shorts. I do like the way the legs fall with the shorts I have used in formulas pattern making. But the fit of the pants from the crotch up seems to be more comfortable with the long front forks. Now that I nearly got myself confuse in writing this last paragraph I quit.
actually i always cut the pleats to the bottom.
yes i have changed the pleat direction once. customer changed his mind. the result with a little finagling was adequate but the customer understood this and was pleased.
do you mean the horizontal measure? or the vertical measure?

Alex Di Pietropaolo
 
#6 ·
front forks horizontal.

For pleats- you never started at the knee? Next pleats I put in will be started at the knee. One time making pleats I put two inches for each pleat, so I guess that was a total of eight inches in the waist that was added (decided that was tooo much, they were so baggy I felt like Jona swallowed by a whale). I thought maybe if I ever put in that much pleat again I'll sew the pleats up and press them and then lay the pattern on top and recut the side. Last time making pants I was going to put in pleats, but didn't have enough length of cloth, and I didn't want to put in a fork piece, so, there just regular pants(actually still in the making). Anyay, I like to experiment sometimes. One experimental pair I was wearing and this guy almost asked me to make him a pair, but decided not to. I didn't tell what I would make for him would be entirely different, because I really didn't want to make anything for him. But, nowadays I might make something for somebody. But, then I would need a business licence so I could buy cloth and trimmings at a lower price, and a business licence is up keep. But tailoring would be a nice retirement hobby.
 
#8 ·
WA.. i allways make a plain front pattern then pivot at the bottom on the crease line for the main pleat. then i check the knee for size. if its too large then reshape the side and inseams to fit,the width of the fork depends on the size. its whatever is needed for that person. i like an 11/4" deep main pleat thats 21/2" when opened. the side pleat one half that much. dont be afraid to peice the back fork, the front would look bad.
dont be afraid to take on a customer. forget the license. most tailors trimings houses sell at the same price to everyone. the only discount is for full peices. thats more yards than you want to buy. this would be a great hobby for you.
your idea for reducing the oversized pleats was good if they were reverse pleats.
have you been dressing your trousers?
good luck to our newest custom pants maker.
but please please please no black pants.


Alex Di Pietropaolo
 
#9 ·
a tailor- i like an 11/4" deep main pleat thats 21/2" when opened. the side pleat one half that much. dont be afraid to peice the back fork, the front would look bad.

Not sure what the 11/4" means.
I always though a pieced back fork would be uncomfortable when sitting- it seems like it would be.
Dressing- sometimes. Last time I did that I followed some directions from about 100 years ago- it made crooked pants (perhaps I misunderstood the directions). Another method of sewing always makes the pants a little dressed, by 1/4". But, another method I've done twise, lately, the dress would have to be added. No doubt dress pants are by far wiser, figured that out as a little boy, even though I didn't begin sewing pants for another 10-15 years. Almost 30 years ago when I began making some of my pants. Far enough apart that I forget how I did it the last time. This tailor in Seattle wrote some tailoring books, and I bought his pants book hoping to get another formula to try, and some more knowlege for fitting pants, well no new formula nor more knowlege for fittings, but his method of making pants is way different than everybody elses. Someday, maybe, I'll do his construction way.
One of the problems today with tailor supply houses is many really are not. They don't have everything I ask for, nor do they even know what these things are. In Portland, OR there was- he had everything, but he retired, and the lady who pretty much ran the store toward the end didn't buy it, so it is gone. Maybe I should ask some Vancouver, BC tailors if there is anything there. For example, where in the US do you buy real cotton pants pocketing (leather-hand). The junk I've seen is poly/cotton or 40/60, 50/50, 60/40. A hot iron for pressing wool or cotton trousers is to hot for that junk pocketing, which also is part of the pants. Who wants to wait for the iron to cool down so one can press the pockets? And I rarely remember to wait.
 
#13 ·
WA wrote:

"so no problem"

~~~

Thank you!

I have changed the image, the dart left behind is only the pants that had a heavy forward double pleat. At the time, the tailor said there was no way around it and I accepted it without question. The pants are a very nice fabric and it is nice to wear them again.
But with this discussion, I wondered if perhaps it is a short cut, or is it truly a necessity based on the volume of fabric?
 
#14 ·
quote:Originally posted by WA

a tailor- i like an 11/4" deep main pleat thats 21/2" when opened. the side pleat one half that much. dont be afraid to peice the back fork, the front would look bad.

Not sure what the 11/4" means.
I always though a pieced back fork would be uncomfortable when sitting- it seems like it would be.
Dressing- sometimes. Last time I did that I followed some directions from about 100 years ago- it made crooked pants (perhaps I misunderstood the directions). Another method of sewing always makes the pants a little dressed, by 1/4". But, another method I've done twise, lately, the dress would have to be added. No doubt dress pants are by far wiser, figured that out as a little boy, even though I didn't begin sewing pants for another 10-15 years. Almost 30 years ago when I began making some of my pants. Far enough apart that I forget how I did it the last time. This tailor in Seattle wrote some tailoring books, and I bought his pants book hoping to get another formula to try, and some more knowlege for fitting pants, well no new formula nor more knowlege for fittings, but his method of making pants is way different than everybody elses. Someday, maybe, I'll do his construction way.
One of the problems today with tailor supply houses is many really are not. They don't have everything I ask for, nor do they even know what these things are. In Portland, OR there was- he had everything, but he retired, and the lady who pretty much ran the store toward the end didn't buy it, so it is gone. Maybe I should ask some Vancouver, BC tailors if there is anything there. For example, where in the US do you buy real cotton pants pocketing (leather-hand). The junk I've seen is poly/cotton or 40/60, 50/50, 60/40. A hot iron for pressing wool or cotton trousers is to hot for that junk pocketing, which also is part of the pants. Who wants to wait for the iron to cool down so one can press the pockets? And I rarely remember to wait.
it means one and one quarter inches. maesured when the pleat is folded and sewn. measured at the waistband seam.
to peice the back fork properly, you must maintain the straight grain of the cloth just as in the rest of the back part of the pant.
that way the fork will act the same as tho it were one peice.
somewear you may find the trimmings you want. but face it new products are coming out every day. i have the new pocketing when making jeans and not had any problems. it washes better than all cotton.

Alex Di Pietropaolo
 
#15 ·
quote:Originally posted by zegnamtl

Alex,

I have had this done to many pairs of older pants I wanted to resurrect as I have favored flat fronts of late.

On the double forward pleated pants, my tailor has often said I must live with a dart as seen in the image below.

Is this really a must or is it the result of a short cut.

https://imageshack.us
i have no real idea. but just a wild guess. the cut off may have been done at the side, not at the front. the dart may be used to maintain the straight grain of the crease.

Alex Di Pietropaolo
 
#16 ·
WA,
Most trimming houses today cater mostly to the drycleaning trade. Even the tailor supply houses are cutting back on good quality supplies. Have you tried B. Black & Sons in Los Angeles. Call them and ask for the trimming department. They may or may not have a catalog. If you email me and send your fax # I can fax you a method to cutting pleats, if you are interested.

zegnamtl.

I don't think the front pleat needs to be there and I don't get the pleat between the side seam and back pocket. I suspect the tailor did not want to cut the front outseam too curved and used darts to reduce the top of the trouser.
 
#17 ·
zegnamtl- That pdf I sent you has a dart in the front closer to the side for, so he says, younger guys. Older guys don't need it because they are more plump, so the pdf says. Darren Beaman (pictures) shows a dart, too. I've never used a front dart.

A-Tailor- 11/4" I thought was eleven four. 1 1/4" or 1¼"

I think with this part plastic pocketing, when sewing the french seam one needs to sew the first part at 1/4" instead of 1/8", because plastic is slippery and less bendable. For example, tying a bowline knot in natual fiber rope works quite fine, but in nylon or poly... a bowline knot will work it's way out pretty fast. A figure eight knot is what is needed when mountaineering with plastic ropes.
 
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