# College Trad: advice to young men, from another young man.



## inq89

Hey guys, I am a returning member with a new name. I posted the below in another, less fashion-conscious internet forum. It was aimed towards my peers and I put some effort into it so I wanted to go ahead and post it here too (with a few minor edits...mostly language lol). Alot of it is elementary advice for you veterans and you may recognize the pictures (taken from The Trad, Ivy Style, etc), but I figured it's a good starting point for those starting out in traditional American style. Let me know your input!

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_*Part I: Introduction.*_

Looking good and developing one's own style should be on everyone's priority list. You look mature and respected when you know how to dress. Obviously the style of choice ITT follows a certain mindset but it represents a classic American attitude towards men's fashion. We always complain how today's generation is going to sh*t and how badass the old guys are...so if this is what your grandfather and father wore, why not follow in their footsteps?

Now let me preface this by saying that there are NO concrete rules to clothing. Fashion is subjective. My own personal 'Sperrys and Polos' look may be more conservative and formal than yours so it is your job to decide what you like and mold it to fit your personality. And even I don't follow my own guidelines 24/7. What I wear to school and what I wear to the club are two different things. So keep this in mind. Happy reading...

*Part II: Prep is, and always has been, in.*

Same goes with the recently named and more conservative brother of prep, 'Trad' (short for traditional), which is known also as the the Ivy League look.

Brooks Brothers, the king of traditional American outfitting, has been around since 1818. J Press since 1902. Sears Roebuck since 1886. Abercrombie and Fitch (yeah that one, before they turned into tight fitting rags) since 1892. The list of heritage brands goes on, but BB and the like didn't start out as preppy or trad clothing outfitters. They were just clothes to the normal person. Everyone wore suits and sportcoats on a regular basis.

These are pictures of the lower class in NYC in 1941....not even the rich people today look this cool.

Obviously, the east coast had a major impact on American style. The prep style took hold when wealthy New Englanders would send their kids to preparatory schools to prepare them for the elite ivy league universities. But it was also our American GI's from WWII that had a major influence on our 'Sperry and Polos'. When they got home from the war, they brought back with them their chinos (khakis), their aviator sunglasses, their bomber jackets, their desert boots, and so on. Along with the New England lifestyle, the military influence is huge in prep culture. Then when the 1960s came, the baby-boomers' children (our dads) were getting into college. Things got more casual and this was the first appearance of slim cut-clothing. The collars and ties got smaller. The suit lapels and padding became trimmer. The pants got shorter and socks disappeared. The 1950s-1960s were the Golden Era of American clothing. This is when JFK, Cary Grant, Steve McQueen, Paul Newman, Miles Davis, and James Dean strutted their stuff. Those guys knew how to dress. No average joe looked better before and certainly after this time period.

Boston Street Corner 1965

UNC Chapel Hill 1965

In the 1970s and 1980s, 'Prep' became mainstream and suddenly everyone started wearing Lacoste Polo shirts with popped collars. Use of color and GTH, which means Go To Hell (a "don't care attitude" that involves the likes of plaid shorts, patchwork jackets, bright blue pants, and so on) became widely popular. The 'Official Preppy Handbook' came out. Prep style evolved from the 1960s but some of the same key elements were still there.

From the 1984 movie 'Making the Grade'

So what do you see on today's college campuses? The wide majority of us wear our sweatpants, pajamas, cargo shorts, baggy shirts, loose jeans, and flip flops. What the F*ck happened?

1960s college party. Notice the blazers, the wayfarer sunglasses, the coeds wearing pearl necklaces.

vs.

Present day college party. Notice the huka necklace, the sideways hat, and the man nipples.

Ok obviously two exaggerated pictures but you get the point.

The great thing about traditional American clothing is that it's so damn hard to mess it up. Once you have the basics down, you can pair anything together and step out your front door without a second thought. And look at the guys in the photos above. Is that not how you want to look when you're 70 years old showing your grandchildren old pictures of yourself? Would you rather look timeless...or dated with those emo jeans and Aeropostale t shirt.

It's ok if you're still in high school wearing baggy shorts and flip flops. That's fine but once you get into college and the mid-20s age range, it's best to start dressing like a man should. So take pride in wanting to dress better than your peers. It's time for us to get back to a more classic and timeless style of clothing.

Next up: My clothing advice...

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_*Part III: Clothing Advice*_

I lean towards 'trad' (traditional) style of clothing. It's basically prep minus the overly GTH attitude and it looks to the past for modern day dress. It's not even a style, its just what men have worn for decades. Most people would see this as boring but it's certainly better than looking like a preteen shopping at American Eagle. There is also 'southern trad' which is more colorful and akin to prep and adapted to the warm weather in the south.

The mindset for trad is that clothing you would normally consider dressy is actually casual and wearable on a daily basis. It consists of American minimalism and it follows all the classic styles. Practicality > Fashion. It prides quality items that will literally last you a lifetime. It pays tribute to when men would not dare go to work without a suit and tie on. When men actually cared how they looked.

*My clothing rules:*

1) Investing in one item of high quality from a reputable brand is better than three items of lesser quality from a cheap brand. Keep it for decades.
2) Buy clothes that complement your build. 
3) Generally, anything made in USA, England, France, etc. > China, Mexico, Malaysia, etc.
4) Buy the staple items that will be the backbone of your wardrobe first (see list below). When you've got the basics covered then you can build on it.
5) Honor the classics. Embrace minimalism.
6) Find a good tailor. Use him or her to custom fit your clothes.
7) Prefer the originals. Sperry Boat Shoes, Brooks OCBD, Ray-Ban Clubmasters, Levis Jeans.
8) Darker colors are more versatile.
9) Natural material is better than man-made. 100% cotton or wool > polyester.
10) NEVER BUY FULL PRICE. Be frugal. Clothes can be cheap if you know where and how to look.

*Wardrobe basics that should be in every young man's closet:*

-4 Oxford Cloth Button Down shirts (OCBDs): white, light blue, university blue stripe, university red stripe
-3 Solid color polos: white, gray, navy 
-1 White straight collar dress shirt
-2 Chino pants: khaki, stone 
-1 All season wool pants: gray, charcoal or navy
-2 Shorts: khaki, stone
-2 Jeans: light and dark denim
-3 Sweaters: v neck, crewneck, cardigan
-2 Outerwear: 1 light jacket, 1 heavy wool coat
-1 Blue Blazer
-1 Suit: dark gray, charcoal, or navy
-3 ties: repp colors
-5 Shoes: boat shoes, penny loafers, black captoe dress shoes, desert boots, sneakers
-Socks, underwear, etc.

Accessories:
-1 watch
-2 sunglasses: one wire frame, one athletic frame
-3 belts: one light brown leather, one dark brown leather, one navy surcingle

*OCBDs*
Invented by Brooks Brothers, the buttons on the collar were to prevent it from flapping on Polo players during matches. I love wearing these shirts. I wear them to class, work, and social situations. The secret to wearing this casually is to treat them as you would with any other shirt, because after all they were the original polo shirt and not meant to be worn for dressy occasions. Keep them rumpled and don't iron them. Roll up your sleeves. Put your sunglasses in your chest pocket. Rough them up a bit. Overtime, the natural fraying gives it character. I generally wear OCBDs tucked in. They can be worn with pants and shorts alike. NO short sleeve button downs...roll up your long sleeves when it gets warm.

*Polos*
Of all the items, this should be most slim cut to show off your jacked fiberz. I don't usually like logos but on polos its ok. Try to stay with solids because stripes are more memorable and therefore should be worn less. Have a range of dark and light colors. I love a fitted black Lacoste polo with the green crocodile.

*Pants*
Chinos can be worn casually. Wear mostly flat front pants. Once you get khaki and stone colors, get brown, navy, and dark green next. Then there are the GTH colors like Nantucket red, Ocean or Sky blue, Yellow, Patchwork, and Plaid. During summer, try Seersucker, Poplin, and Linen. For winter, look into Corduroy and Twill. All season 100% wool pants can be worn for more dressy situations. I keep my inseam shorter than normal....I am 6'1" but wear a 30-32 inseam because I like a slight break. This trend started in the ivy league schools in the 1950s and its a great preppy look. But if you want to play it safe then keep a 2" (full) break. Cuffing is another popular trad fashion and looks best with pleated pants but can be worn with flat front too. Keep cuffs 1.75-2".

*Shorts*
Easier to use GTH colors, plaid, and patchwork with shorts. No pleats. Inseam should be 7-9" depending on how comfortable you are with showing off your legs (another reason to do squats!), but they need to at least hit above the knee. A nice summer outfit includes your OCBDs, shorts, surcingle belt, and boat shoes or loafers.

*Jeans*
Tradsters don't usually like jeans...chinos are your jeans and jeans are for yardwork. Of course you don't have to follow this rule but I only buy Levis 501s and 505s and never pay more than $50 for a pair. Dark denim is more versatile. Do not buy pre-distressed jeans. Why? Because it's fake. Do you like your woman faking it during sex? No. Buy a pair of $35 Levis 'Shrink to Fit' 501 jeans and wear them for a year without washing. It's disgusting sure but you will earn those natural whiskers and creases. STF 501 will mold to your body and earn a personality of their own over the years. Kids back in the day would get a pair of new jeans that were suppose to last them for the next three or four years. They would play baseball in them, roll in the mud, and knick them on fences. The natural fading and holes the kids got were from living in those jeans, not paying extra for prefabricated fakeness.

*Sweaters*
Another prep favorite is pairing OCBDs with crewnecks during the colder months. I also like V Necks and Cardigans. A sky blue cotton V neck can be worn with everything. Look into cashmere when you have the budget. Shaggy Dog sweaters by J Press and LL Bean Norwegian or Fair Isle sweaters are famous among the trad circles.

*Outerwear*
The G9 Harrington jacket is great for the fall and spring. The red Baracuta was made popular by James Dean in the movie 'Rebel Without a Cause'. English countrymen would wear a Barbour wax coat while hunting, and is quite warm if you layer underneath. For winter, a suitable choice would be a black, navy or charcoal Pea coat. Almost every major brand carries them, or you can buy a cheaper and more authentic coat at a military surplus store.

*Suits and Blazers*
A man in a well-fitting suit will make him look like a million bucks even if it only cost him $200. Just make sure your suit jacket is the correct chest size and that the pads hug your shoulders. In fact, try to get a jacket with natural shouldering if you can. A good jacket length is where you can cup the bottom naturally with your hands while standing. You should be able to see 1/4" to 1/2" of your shirt cuff peeking out when your arms are at your side. Leave out the stripes and patterns until you have at least 2 basic solid suits. Gray and Navy will do everything for you. Do not buy black. There are countless other tips for suits out there but the above lays the groundwork. Take it to a tailor to make the suit truly yours.

2 buttons, button only the top. 3 buttons, button the middle or both the middle and top. Button when standing and walking, unbutton when sitting.

A blue blazer with gold buttons is quintessentially American. Wear for semi-formal events. Every guy should have at least one. Needs to be as clean on your body as your suit, unless it is a sack blazer which is a bit more full cut.

Khaki, plaid, patchwork, and seersucker sportsjackets are good for summer. Tweed, wool, corduroy, and herringbone for winter. A navy unlined khaki blazer works well for going out at night.

*Ties*
'Repp' ties stand for regimental, which were the patterns that British military officers wore. The colors could also represent what college you went to or what fraternal order you belonged to. There is a lot of history that goes into those colors, but nowadays they just look damn cool. Look into other patterns and materials once you have enough repps. Knit ties for summer. Bow ties are big in the south.

*Shoes*
A huge topic and too much to cover. Back in the day, all you would need are your penny loafers and a dress shoe. Not practical of course now so I'll just list what I would wear: Bass Weejuns, LL Bean Blucher Mocs, Sperry Original Top Siders, and Clarks Desert Boots for casual use. Allen Edmonds Park Avenues for dress shoes. Adidas Sambas for casual and weightlifting, New Balance or Asics for running. Invest in one pair of black captoe dress shoes...Allen Edmonds is a good starter shoe and made in the USA. Other brands (read: more expensive) include Alden, John Lobbs, and Churchs. And stay away from square toes. Leave the Rainbow sandals for the beach please.

Random others: LL Bean boots for rain/snow, LLB camp mocs, driver mocs, suede bucks with red soles, tassel loafers, chukka boots, wingtips, and monk straps.

*Socks*
Multiple pairs of solid colors like navy and dark gray. Then a range of argyles in spring and winter colors. You can go sockless in almost any shoe anytime, but I usually wear socks with my boat shoes or loafers during the winter months to avoid any weird looks.

*Accessories: * There are only 3 types of accessories appropriate for guys. A watch, sunglasses, and a wedding band, as needed. Everything else is supplemental.

*Watches*
Another comprehensive subject with a wide range of differing tastes. First off, start wearing a watch if you don't regularly. Marks of a gentleman are his watch and his shoes. A cell phone is not a timepiece. Watches are what purses are to women, but at least a trad man goes for minimalism. A simple and cheap Timex watch with a white face works well for all occasions. Add a NATO strap or preppy ribbon and you're set. Money wise from least to most expensive: Timex, Seiko, Citizen, Hamilton < Omega, Rolex, IWC < Piaget, Patek Philippe. Obviously there are other high quality watch brands out there but these are the ones I see the most in trad world.

*Sunglasses*
Aviators and caravans are good wire framed sunglasses for casual and formal occasions. Clubmasters and wayfarers are also pretty cool. Keep another pair of sports shades for running or outdoor stuff. Do NOT mix the two....you should not be wearing your Oakleys with a suit. Ray-Bans and Persols are my personal favorites. Spend more for polarized, trust me.

*Belts*
Keep leather dress belts 1" to 1.5" thick and with smaller buckles. Engine-turned buckles are cool and they remind me of something a yuppy hotshot investment banker would wear. Thicker belts and larger buckles are for jeans only. Surcingle and needlepoint belts are extremely preppy and GTH, especially if you add in a few motif or embroided belts. Check out Smathers & Branson and Leatherman Ltd.

American brands to trust, there are certainly more but these are off the top of my head:

Brooks Brothers, J Press, Lands End, LL Bean, Ralph Lauren, Hickey Freeman, Oxxford, O'Connells, Allen Edmonds, Alden, Cable Car Clothiers, Gitman Brothers, Pennington, Quoddy, Sperry, Sebago, Southwick, Woolrich Woolen Mills, Gant, Orvis, Filson, Anderson-Little, Murray's Toggle Shop, Bill's Khakis, Florsheim, Bass, Ben Silver, Hart Schaffner Marx, Sterlingwear of Boston, Paul Stewart, and......that's all for now.

'Neo-Prep' brands like J Crew, Vineyard Vines, Patagonia, etc. are not traditional but they have done well enough to mention.

End result, Yale 1964:










Next up: How to pay for your new wardrobe...

--------------------------

_*Final Part*_

Now that you know what to wear, how will you pay for your new wardrobe?

Lets visit Rule #10

*"10) NEVER BUY FULL PRICE. Be frugal. Clothes can be cheap if you know where and how to look."*

It's true that WASPs are wealthy by definition, but the real Old Money types knew the value of a dollar. Back in the day, rich parents would have their first born fitted in the finest bespoke clothing and then have it passed down to his younger brothers when he outgrew it. They would buy expensive but high quality clothes and keep it for decades. Thriftiness carried into the mid century when college kids would wear their penny loafers into the ground and actually duck tape the soles to them (it became a popular trend).

Glen O'Brian, the Style Guy from GQ magazine, said that back in his college days at Georgetown, you could always spot who was from Old Money as they were the ones who always wore lumpy tweed jackets, drove beat up Volkswagons, and never 'had any money'. The rich European students drove around in their exotic cars and expensive suits. But the more worn-in your clothes appeared, the more respect you got.

Fred Astaire was known to throw a new jacket at the wall several times to get the crispiness out. Some would ask their butlers to wear their brand new suits for a year first. Nantucket red pants would initially come in bright red, but the more it baked in the New England sea salt and beach weather, the better it aged and it is why true Nantucket red is known as an almost pink shade. The more lived in, frayed and old looking clothes are, the better. Sperrys and loafters look awesome after a a few years of wearing. And this trend has carried today, which is why you see predistressed khakis at J Crew or pay $200 for holes in your jeans.

The main takeaway is that the aristocratic rich embraced saving money and actually flaunted their frugal habits, and you should too.

Quality = / = $$$ if you are smart. You can still look good and only pay a fraction of the price.

In the 5 or so years I've been serious about clothing, I can't remember a time I have ever paid full price for anything. I've always shopped during sales or at outlets. I buy gift cards on Craigslist, shop on eBay, use discount and free shipping codes from RetailMeNot.com, and shop on buying and selling internet forums. There are countless deals out there so be creative with your money-saving techniques.

Once you become more educated about clothes, it becomes easier to ignore the ugly or fake stuff and pick out the gold. My eye is trained enough where I can go to Goodwill or other thrift stores and find an expensive item for less than $3. Yes the clothes are used but you can easily wash it.

Below are my summer outfits with info on where and how much I paid for each apparel item. Sorry for the weird angle and lighting.

Casual, wore this on July 4th and got sooo many compliments.


















-BB OCBD bought at Garland NC factory store, $12
-Lands End shorts, LandsEnd.com, $20
-NC embroidered belt, VolunteerTraditions.com, $29
-Cole Haan penny loafers, eBay, $50

What I'd wear to class. Business casual is required at my grad program (fortunately for me!)


















-Sears Roebuck vintage University Blue Stripe OCBD, made in USA, thrifted for $2
-Ducks Head chinos (popular in the south during 1980s prep era, no longer made), thrifted for $8
-Lands End surcingle belt, LandsEnd.com, $25 
-Sperry Boat shoes, Shoebuy.com, $44
-Ray Ban aviators, found free on the beach lolz

This is what I wore to a baptism and country club easter lunch.


























-Anderson-Little Blue Blazer, made in USA, thrifted for $5
-RL OCBD circa early 1980s, inherited from my father and naturally frayed
-Nordstroms vintage plaid tie, bought online via selling forum for $5
-RL chinos, RL outlet, $20
-J Crew Engine-Turned Plaque belt, made in England, gift
-Bucherer Swiss Watch with NATO strap, inherited from my father

Sartorial reading:

www.styleforum.net
www.forums.filmnoirbuff.com
askandyaboutclothes.com/forum
https://thetrad.blogspot.com/

https://www.ivy-style.com/
https://atripdownsouth.blogspot.com/
https://theivyleaguelook.blogspot.com/
https://thesartorialist.blogspot.com/

Places to shop:
Sales forum of StyleForum
Sales forum of AAAC
Craigslist, eBay

Random sorority girls at the Carolina Cup


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## WouldaShoulda

Is somone walking their goat??


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## Brio1

There is wisdom here that many older men need to follow. I was out to dinner at a local "casual" restaurant with a lady friend last weekend and thunderstruck at the poor attire surrounding us. It appears to be getting worse in the NOVA area. I might add to refrain from too many conspicuous tattoos! Thanks again for this, sir.


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## frosejr

While the random sorority girls at the end of the post are not the end goal of dressing as the OP recommends, they are an almost certain result. +1000 to the original post, I will print and save for my son to read in a few years.


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## WouldaShoulda

inq89 said:


> 1960s college party. Notice the blazers, the wayfarer sunglasses, the coeds wearing pearl necklaces.


That huge bottle of VAT 69 is hysterical!!


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## hobscrk777

I think I recognize some of these pictures from SF. Superbly written piece.


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## Hayek

I enjoyed this, and agree with all of it as a recent college grad. I'll only add two things regarding frugality:

- Wait until Brooks has their "friends and family" sale, twice a year. Everything is 25% off and they still have everything in stock, unlike the post-xmas/July 4th sales.
- Same for Press when they start at 25% off, and sometimes (like this past week) they'll slap on an extra 25% off of the 25% off original price.


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## jwlester

Good to see someone else fairly local. I'm in Charlotte now but was in Raleigh for 8 years or so during and after school. What program are you in? Welcome (back?).

Cheers, Josh


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## Asterix

Superb. I love the writeup!


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## harwellplant

nice piece. 

when reading expanded thoughts like yours, it always strikes me that readers need to bear in mind that attitude plays an enormous role in one's personal style. it is one thing to be dedicatedly traditional in one's dress, but a wholly different creature to be pretentiously locked into recreating a "style" or look. stated with more gentility, a man should wear the clothes and never the clothes wear the man. 

for me, i find that i have developed a personal clothing preference over the years that is most closely identified with trad. i know several, however, who purposefully "selected" trad" in order to cast an image, give an impression, or emulate an attitude. there is a wide swath of acceptability and appreciation in one's dress in my area of the south -- but a fine line between personal style and fussiness.


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## JakeLA

Nice writeup, although the "reward" of those hideous sorority girls is almost enough to make me burn my OCBDs. 

And I have to take exception to your insistence on being a cheapskate. Katon posted some J. Press ads from 1969, when their poplin shirts were $13.50. Adjusted for inflation, those shirts would be $80 today, which is exactly what Press and BB charge. So when people complain that these shirts are too expensive at their retail price, what they're really saying it they'd prefer paying Made-in-Burkina Faso prices. And the reason the domestic clothing industry is dead is because everyone decided they'd rather pay Burkina Faso prices.


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## inq89

Thanks for the positive feedback guys!



JakeLA said:


> Nice writeup, although the "reward" of those hideous sorority girls is almost enough to make me burn my OCBDs.
> 
> And I have to take exception to your insistence on being a cheapskate. Katon posted some J. Press ads from 1969, when their poplin shirts were $13.50. Adjusted for inflation, those shirts would be $80 today, which is exactly what Press and BB charge. So when people complain that these shirts are too expensive at their retail price, what they're really saying it they'd prefer paying Made-in-Burkina Faso prices. And the reason the domestic clothing industry is dead is because everyone decided they'd rather pay Burkina Faso prices.


Ouch strong standards. I wanted to post a pic of southern sorority chicks in preppy attire, this was one of the first that came up in my search. They were above average and forgive me if I didn't want to spend over a minute looking for all 10/10s in tight button downs and sperrys lol.

Also a note on why I insist on being cheap: most college kids are poor. So no need to pay full price for a BB shirt when you can find one at the thrift store. Save it for beer money.


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## Jovan

Not bad. However...

I'm also not a fan of those sorority girls and most are really not attractive to me, physically or personality wise. Just me though. I also don't like that patch sport coat thing, whatever decade it's from.


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## inq89

Here we go...


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## JakeLA

that's better.


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## WouldaShoulda

BOING!!


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## AdamsSutherland

Those darts on the brunette are terrible. tsk tsk.

I'd gladly join the blonde on our right for a G&T, though.

(This is how SF-like threads begin...)

I should also add that the written component of this thread is solid.


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## brozek

Great write-up, ing! I'm curious - what have the responses been like on the other forum?



Jovan said:


> Not bad. However...
> 
> I'm also not a fan of those sorority girls and most are really not attractive to me, physically* or personality wise*. .


 Ummm - how can you tell that from a photograph?


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## Pleasant McIvor

I think he meant sorority girls in general, which is equally prejudiced.


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## WouldaShoulda

Attractive women are dunces who see Russia from their kitchen windows.

Doesn't everyone realize that??


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## 10gallonhat

inq89 said:


>


I sincerely hope you picked up that third girl from the right and didn't just take a picture of them.



>


Girl on the left = YESSSSSS

I don't really see girls wearing blazers/ties outside of silly prep school functions, is this some sort of style?


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## The Rambler

Why, I think there are many attractive girls in the b/w photo. You lads just can't get past the hairstyles. And the clothes, but remember that's the female equivalent of the the very ivy-styled guys in the picture:devil:

As for personality, the girl holding out a rather large cup for some vat 69 seems very personable.


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## Jovan

Pleasant McIvor said:


> I think he meant sorority girls in general, which is equally prejudiced.


I suppose it was. I apologise.


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## inq89

brozek said:


> Great write-up, ing! I'm curious - what have the responses been like on the other forum?


Well received, it was posted in a men's fitness forum with a lot of testosterone-driven guys with no style sense as you can imagine. They actually didn't give me half as much flack as you guys gave me with the first sorority girls picture haha.



a!!!!1 said:


> I sincerely hope you picked up that third girl from the right and didn't just take a picture of them.


Not my picture, I typed in Carolina Cup while searching for images and that showed up.


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## ZachGranstrom

inq89 said:


> Here we go...


This is a very good thread!!:aportnoy::aportnoy::aportnoy::aportnoy:

Edit: Also, Great writeup!


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## 10gallonhat

inq89 said:


>


Oh yeah, very nice. Personally I prefer to wear lighter shoes (light brown, sand, cognac, etc) but you pull off the outfit very well. Do you usually roll your sleeves up?

Also, in your other pic you said "business casual" but you're wearing boat shoes. I've never worked in a business casual environment so I'm surprised that boat shoes are actually acceptable??


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## Bermuda

nice thread....more preppy girl photos please


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## Charles the Hammer

I just graduated from a not so preppy Ivy, so I have some perspective. A couple points:

Clothing is a language. People will prejudge you for the clothing you wear; I say this not to protest, but to inform. Whatever you wear, be conscious of the identity you are projecting with your clothes. Avoid wearing khakis, they make you look like an office drone. Crew neck sweaters have about as much sex appeal. Cardigans can look very good if the fit and your frame are right. Consider lifting weights, and perfect your posture. Forget about brands, pay attention to the clothes itself - one of my favorite shirts is a gingham from Steve and Barry's. I have a penchant for using big words, in person and in writing, and dressing as I did led some to immediately label me as a "pompous asshole," sometimes even a "Republican," both of which I was happy to concede. Some will see you as a poser, predominantly non-preppies, because you can't trace your lineage back to the Mayflower and never attended Andover. People would tell me, "you're not from Massachusetts! Why are you wearing this stuff?" People cannot comprehend someone adopting this distinct style simply because he likes it. Dressing well does make some people feel a little distant, even uncomfortable, and you shall ignore them. A trim sport coat is an excellent look, but hard to come by; sport coats are universally made for old fat men. Get used to being the object of attention, enjoy standing out; sprezzatura is the ruling principle of the gentleman. And have fun wearing your clothes - I had the most hideous, ill-fitting sweater I've ever seen, and I'd wear it occasionally for bouts of carousing.

Points of agreement: I also prefer dark jeans, and wear them exclusively. Light jeans look declasse to my eyes, but I came late to jeans. Short sleeved OCBDs look even more proletarian. I'm the same height (6'1") and also wear a 32" inseam, definitely a nice youthful look, especially if you're sporting nice loafers without socks.



> And the reason the domestic clothing industry is dead is because everyone decided they'd rather pay Burkina Faso prices.


Perhaps. But Americans' propensity for being brand whores must be the chief cause. Every clothing company spends inordinate amounts on advertising, and people are too insecure in their sartorial tastes to purchase items without the backing of a name brand. Which is odd, because they still recognize what looks good. Dress well, and one is assured to receive compliments from the ill-attired. A few months ago, I purchased a weight lifting belt. This belt was made in America, and quite possibly the sturdiest thing I own, and uses a great deal more leather (it is 1/2" thick, 3 or 4" wide) than any normal belt; it was also made to custom order and dyed. Despite all this, it was only $54 shipped, which makes the prices for clothing of questionable quality made abroad look ludicrous.

There are without doubt some other things I'd like to say, but they elude me now, and I have something to which I must attend.

Also, is there any way to alter the color scheme on this site? It's atrocious, and was not always this way.

Edit: I have to add, wool trousers in winter are a great look, especially with a pattern to add some character.


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## Pentheos

Charles the Hammer said:


> But Americans' propensity for being brand whores must be the chief cause.


Europeans are _much_ worse.


----------



## caravan70

I'm not sure that being an Ivy grad informs my style that much at all. It's a different world than it was in the 60s, and if I'd worn BB suits and Gant OCBDs I'd have been an outlier rather than a trend-setter or follower. (I do wear both, the latter obtained from vintage shops and eBay, now that I'm in the business world.) I will say that short-sleeve OCBDs should never be worn tucked in lest you look prissy... wear the tails proudly flapping, with boat shoes or Weejuns.


----------



## hookem12387

I've enjoyed the majority of this thread. I certainly hope that my non-Ivy/northeastern education doesn't preclude me from commenting!


----------



## 10gallonhat

caravan70 said:


> I will say that short-sleeve OCBDs should never be worn tucked in


I've honestly never seen a short-sleeve OCBD that looked good tucked or not. I think they just look silly and a long-sleeve with the sleeves rolled up looks a lot better.


----------



## jwlester

Charles, 

I see your point, but avoid khakis? That is certainly something I didn't expect to see here. I agree that one must be careful and not roll over into the territory of being a poseur. I also agree that the man must wear the clothes and also think it should be with as little thought as possible. I think you are missing a little context though. Few in this area are trying to copy "ivy style" or would even know what that was. I highly doubt the OP would get the reaction you have gotten. What is missing here is the fact that this kind of dress is normal for the south. Until 6 months ago I had no idea what "trad" was and knew nothing about ivy style in the 50's. I wear what I have always worn, which happens to be what my father wore and what my grand father wore. Even today, to a lesser extent, its just the uniform of the south. Of course, we have a few twists on the style, as has been discussed here many times.

On a side note, I completely agree with your take on the zombie masses.

Josh


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## caravan70

a!!!!1 said:


> I've honestly never seen a short-sleeve OCBD that looked good tucked or not. I think they just look silly and a long-sleeve with the sleeves rolled up looks a lot better.


I agree with you for the most part. I do have a few very old short-sleeve OCBD's, though, that I like to wear untucked as casual pieces... they're sort of "throw on and go to the corner deli" things. I like the contrast between the collar and the simple shorts I wear with them in summer.


----------



## Ed Reynolds

If I may, overall a great thread, especially for someone just 22. I wish I dressed more like this then rather than the atrocious things I used to wear. 

Going on name brands, but we should be aware that even the great Sperry, Chuch Taylors and others are made in overseas factories. There are still American made choices, but they are harder to find and usually cost 3x as much and maybe not a valid choice for poor college kids (or poor working reporters). 

As for the "Where the hell did it all go wrong?" Well, where did it? Was it the hippie movement and their flowers and jeans and the like? Was it the loss of American manufacturing? Why do men wear Ts and shorts everywhere instead of dressing well? (Maybe its not such a bad thing because then it helps us stand out a bit--never mind)


----------



## Charles the Hammer

jwlester said:


> Charles,
> 
> I see your point, but avoid khakis? That is certainly something I didn't expect to see here. I agree that one must be careful and not roll over into the territory of being a poseur. I also agree that the man must wear the clothes and also think it should be with as little thought as possible. I think you are missing a little context though. Few in this area are trying to copy "ivy style" or would even know what that was. I highly doubt the OP would get the reaction you have gotten. What is missing here is the fact that this kind of dress is normal for the south. Until 6 months ago I had no idea what "trad" was and knew nothing about ivy style in the 50's. I wear what I have always worn, which happens to be what my father wore and what my grand father wore. Even today, to a lesser extent, its just the uniform of the south. Of course, we have a few twists on the style, as has been discussed here many times.
> 
> On a side note, I completely agree with your take on the zombie masses.
> 
> Josh


I was not accusing anyone here of being a poseur, but that some outside this forum WILL accuse one of being a poser. I personally welcome taste and independence in style. And, one must ape _someone_ when it comes to style - if you are 'copying' something tasteful, you are far ahead of everyone else. If you dress differently from your friends, you are sure to get flack for it. Living by other people's philistine tastes is no life at all, so I learned not to care. But, one should still be aware of the image he projects, because people do react to one's appearance.

As for the point about khakis, beige is the epitome of blandness; khakis aren't bad by any means, but they're not very remarkable either. One can always look better by swapping khakis for something else, be it a pair of jeans, wool or linen trousers, shorts, reds, seersucker or some other colored or patterned fabric; these alternatives are aesthetically superior. Personally, I like white pants, as they are crisp, elegant and versatile. That said, people do wear khakis a lot more down South, and putting on a pair of khakis for trads is like putting on sweats or faded jeans for the regular person.

I did a search on khaki and found a recent New York Times article on the matter. It even has an accompanying slide show, to demonstrate the sex appeal of khaki, but I remain unconvinced. Most of the photos are of a black model, so the contrast between his skin color and khaki increases its aesthetic appeal. I, however, am not pigmented so. And even on him, I can't help but think that'd he look better with something else.

The slobs and misfits at your school will serve as a good guide as to how not to look. Generally, they wear running shoes despite never running, lettered t-shirts they got for free, university sweatshirts, and baggy faded jeans, sweatpants or ill-fitting khakis. They often have bad posture, poorly kept hair, unflattering glasses, excess fat and/or a paucity of muscle mass, and an overall lack of swagger.

The only real status items in college are indicators of affiliations, generally membership in top fraternities and respected varsity sports teams.


----------



## hookem12387

Charles the Hammer said:


> The only real status items in college are indicators of affiliations, generally membership in *top fraternities* and respected varsity sports teams.


 Cash, is that you? https://www.cashmcmogulsoniii.com/blog Also, I flat out disagree as to jeans being more appealing than a well fitted khaki chino. Sure, "nice" jeans will look better than poorly fitting, non-iron, scotchguarded dockers, but a well-fitted chino is a great look. This is coming from a 23yr old, so I shouldn't be too out of touch.


----------



## jwlester

Didn't think you were accusing anyone of anything. But I do think it is a fine line we walk. One should think long and hard when shopping for quality clothing items, and then don't think about them again. Wear what you wear and with confidence. 

That said, I don't know that I agree with your aesthetic taste, but we are in very different places and probably come from different experiences. To each his own.


----------



## Cajunking

I rejected a not-so-preppy Ivy in favor of a probably far better-dressed school, so I have some perspective. (I jest! )



Charles the Hammer said:


> As for the point about khakis, beige is the epitome of blandness; khakis aren't bad by any means, but they're not very remarkable either. One can always look better by swapping khakis for something else, be it a pair of jeans, wool or linen trousers, shorts, reds, seersucker or some other colored or patterned fabric; these alternatives are aesthetically superior.


I don't mean to bust balls, but in one post you're harping about trying not to appear slovenly or "proletariat," but then you suggest that one should wear blue jeans rather than khakis! I think it's safe to say that khakis have at least as much of a place in dress as jeans do (and, seeing as we are in the *trad* forum, I'd suppose most others here will probably agree).

Certainly there *are* nicer dress jeans (CoH, Levis [for the distinguished trad wearing jeans] or whatever vs Old Navy), but there are also nicer khakis or chinos (Bill's vs Dockers). The whole "office drone" khaki look is almost exclusively defined by wearing ill-fitting, nasty Dockers. Also for me, at least, "khaki" encompasses khaki pants that aren't necessarily the "regulation" khaki hue. Bill's khakis come in all sorts of colors (including a red similar to Murray's reds, you mentioned).

And khakis look far better with a blazer than jeans do!


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## katon

5-pocket khakis work great in areas hostile towards standard khakis.  Also usually a trimmer fit.

The whole preference for (say) imported boat shoes by Sperry rather than U.S. made ones by someone off the radar is a bit of an issue... Not everyone enjoys being a trend-setter, even if the trend is simply switching to a maker that does things the way the old standard-bearer used to do things. Rojo had a great way of phrasing it in the American/Trad thread: "trying to return to our old home like surviving drones after the destruction of the hive".


----------



## Bermuda

remember that Khakis came from the military....it's not some upper class snotty thing


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## Sir Cingle

This thread makes one thing clear to me: I am likely the only member of the forum who doesn't detest short-sleeved OCBDs. I particularly despise the heat, and prefer short-sleeves to rolled-up long-sleeves when it gets very, very hot. I don't wear such shirts with a tie, of course, but I tuck them in. As a result, it seems quite probable that I am a big dork.


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## Bermuda

oh I'm a huge short sleeve oxford and tie guy....but I'm a teacher and it's quite popular among the ranks


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## caravan70

I thought I made it quite clear that I like the short-sleeve OCBD look, as long as it's with a pair of decent shorts. I simply think that short-sleeved OCBDs look better out, with tails flying, than tucked in. The latter invites 'Revenge of the Nerds' comparisons.


----------



## inq89

a!!!!1 said:


> Oh yeah, very nice. Personally I prefer to wear lighter shoes (light brown, sand, cognac, etc) but you pull off the outfit very well. Do you usually roll your sleeves up?
> 
> Also, in your other pic you said "business casual" but you're wearing boat shoes. I've never worked in a business casual environment so I'm surprised that boat shoes are actually acceptable??


I also frequently wear my beat up LLBean blucher mocs in light brown, a great alternative to my classic dark brown Sperrys. Yes, I always roll up my sleeves...if its warm enough to wear shorts, then its wearm enough to roll up sleeves! Great casual look.

Boat shoes are acceptable as business casual in the classroom. Perhaps its the result of relaxing dress standards over the past 40 years, but some of my peers consider them partly dress shoes!



jwlester said:


> Charles,
> 
> What is missing here is the fact that this kind of dress is normal for the south. Until 6 months ago I had no idea what "trad" was and knew nothing about ivy style in the 50's. I wear what I have always worn, which happens to be what my father wore and what my grand father wore. Even today, to a lesser extent, its just the uniform of the south. Of course, we have a few twists on the style, as has been discussed here many times.


This is true, on many of the large southern school campuses, southern prep or trad is huge and therefore not really a pretentious or snotty style. We embrace dressing well in the south. At SEC football games, you'll see the students wear ties and sundresses. No one has ever assumed that I am of a certain mindset or affiliation, although I can see how dressing like this can bring assumptions.Plus I am admittingly broke so I hope my classmates don't turn to me for cash


----------



## 10gallonhat

inq89 said:


> At SEC football games, you'll see the students wear ties and sundresses.


I love college football, you can bust out the bowties, ribbon belts with school colors, etc. A lot of fun.


----------



## g.michael

You have written very well with this post young man.

Made me want to go out and buy some new 501's and more OBCD's!

Your advice and the plethora of money saving online shopping opps make dressing well very affordable.

Oh, and nice find on BOTH sorority photos!


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## jalyon

+1 to the OP. Along the lines of a college student's necessary frugality, anybody have tips on buying discounted classic suits (ie solid navy or charcoal). I've found it largely miss in thrift stores, as even though these are very common suit colors they are also most heavily worn. Also BB clearances and the like often don't significantly reduce prices on these essentials, or the size selection is very limited.


----------



## hookem12387

jalyon said:


> +1 to the OP. Along the lines of a college student's necessary frugality, anybody have tips on buying discounted classic suits (ie solid navy or charcoal). I've found it largely miss in thrift stores, as even though these are very common suit colors they are also most heavily worn. Also BB clearances and the like often don't significantly reduce prices on these essentials, or the size selection is very limited.


 The exchange. I'm not sure where they find 'em, but there are some pretty suits on the forum...unless you're a 41L, then no suits for you!


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## Cardinals5

hookem12387 said:


> The exchange. I'm not sure where they find 'em


We find 'em at thrift stores or consignment shops. The thrifts in some locations (New England, Southeast) have a greater concentration of "trad" stuff, but careful searching can always turn up something of interest in just about every locate.


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## hookem12387

Cardinals5 said:


> We find 'em at thrift stores or consignment shops. The thrifts in some locations (New England, Southeast) have a greater concentration of "trad" stuff, but careful searching can always turn up something of interest in just about every locate.


 I meant more that I can never find decent suits in the thrifts down here but have certainly found other nice items.


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## Steve Smith

inq89, nice post. It never ceases to amaze me how poorly most college men dress.


----------



## jean-paul sartorial

You Southern frat boys (which I have always thought of as very distinct from "preppy") might be interested to know that a Richmond retailer bought the rights Duck Head and plans to relaunch the line. Dress "trad" if you must... but don't dress like a Yank.


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## inq89

jean-paul sartorial said:


> You Southern frat boys (which I have always thought of as very distinct from "preppy") might be interested to know that a Richmond retailer bought the rights Duck Head and plans to relaunch the line. Dress "trad" if you must... but don't dress like a Yank.


Yup I heard about that, suppose to come out as early as this fall. Hope the rebranding goes well.


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## inq89

Hope you guys don't mind if I bump my thread every once in a while with updated pics. I figured it may be new to anyone else out there....or I can post in the WhatAreYouWearing thread, just let me know if it is bothersome.

Again, this is for the viewpoint of a young guy new to trad/prep. I've included where and how much I paid for each clothing item.

Back to school picnic, orange and black belt are my school colors. The LLB blucher mocs are a good alternative to boat shoes and are hella comfortable when worn-in.




























-RL OCBD, inherited from my father
-Leatherman LTD surcingle belt, $28, Elizab.com
-J Crew seersucker shorts, $15, bought online via Styleforum
-LL Bean Blucher Moc, ~$50 via gift card on craigslist, LLBean.com
-Hamilton Khaki Field Watch, ~$65, Ashford.com

Stormy day at school. Rubber mocs sockless of course.




























-1980s Lacoste rain jacket, inherited from my father
-BB university red stripe OCBD, $20, Garland factory store
-Ducks Head fatigue chinos, ~$8, eBay
-LL Bean Rubber Moc, ~$40 via gift card on craigslist, LLBean.com

The guy on right was kinda my inspiration. From "Take Ivy" via The Trad blogspot










Grad school convocation, required to dress up a bit.



















-Anderson Little Blue Blazer, thrifted for $5
-LL Bean OCBD, $20, LLBean.com
-BB #1 repp tie, $15, Garland factory store
-Lands End chinos, $20, LandsEnd.com
-BB argyle socks, $6, BrooksBrothers.com
-Cole Haan penny loafers, eBay, $50 
-RL belt, $5, Craiglist

House party









-BB polo, ~$10, bought online via Styleforum
-RL Rugby jeans, gift
-Clarks Desert Boots, ~$60 after Bing cashback, Shoebuy.com


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## Naval Gent

^Could be me c. 1980. Therefore, meets with my full approval. Well done.

Scott


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## Jovan

inq89: You should post in the "Trad WAYW" thread. (These pictures are fine here, though.) You have a good sense of style, "trad" or not. I disagree with the pre-whiskered jeans, but that's about it.

Personally, I'm ready to get rid of jeans altogether, except maybe the weekend. I'm getting tired of them.


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## Peak and Pine

Jovan said:


> I disagree with the pre-whiskered jeans, but that's about it.


As do I. But not the pre-whiskered part, with jeans period. Not one person that I \ever noticed, including myself, wore blue jeans in school and school for me was in NYC '62-'66. Unlike Jovan tho, I kinda like jeans, now, but if you're trying for that Take Ivy thing consider skipping the blue ones. At my school the kids left them down on the farm, but that's just an expression because nobody at my school knew what a farm was.


----------



## inq89

Jovan said:


> I disagree with the pre-whiskered jeans, but that's about it.
> 
> Personally, I'm ready to get rid of jeans altogether, except maybe the weekend. I'm getting tired of them.





Peak and Pine said:


> As do I. But not the pre-whiskered part, with jeans period.


Oh trust me, I definitely agree with the distaste of fabricated jeans, in fact my original post on page one has a diatribe against them. But admittedly I am breaking my own rule. But those Rugby jeans are one of two pairs I have that still fits (gained some weight since high school of course) and are from a few years ago when I still didn't know much better, plus they were purchased from a gift card so I didn't waste any money of my own haha. I am planning on getting some Levis STF soon enough and breaking them in the old fashion way.

But I do hope it is understandable that a college kid these days, even one such as myself that follows a very traditional clothing style compared to my peers, will have at least a few pairs of jeans. I know the more diehard trad types on this board will never wear jeans unless in the garden, but a modern day young man should be free to blend the styling of yesteryear and today. That outfit was for a house (fraternity) party after all.


----------



## Peachey Carnehan

Inq89,
I agree with LLB Blucher mocs being incredibly comfortable. I see yours have worn in the exact same spots mine have. I applied some polish to cover up the wear but now I just noticed the slight red tinge is gone, and I'm sad.

I also have the Bean rubber mocs, but no matter how I adjust the laces I can't get a tight fit...I wonder how yours fit you.


----------



## GBR

Here endeth the lesson?

An interesting perspective for some to think about however the key point you make at the beginning - "there are NO concrete rules to clothing. Fashion is subjective ".


Many need to think about and heed that.


----------



## WouldaShoulda

Naval Gent said:


> ^Could be me c. 1980. Therefore, meets with my full approval. Well done.
> 
> Scott


Just what I was thinking!!

30 years and 40 lbs ago!!


----------



## hobscrk777

Mind if I give this a try?

Yes, I know that the lighting is terrible in the picture below. The pants are white.


----------



## JakeLA

Peak and Pine said:


> As do I. But not the pre-whiskered part, with jeans period. Not one person that I \ever noticed, including myself, wore blue jeans in school and school for me was in NYC '62-'66. Unlike Jovan tho, I kinda like jeans, now, but if you're trying for that Take Ivy thing consider skipping the blue ones. At my school the kids left them down on the farm, but that's just an expression because nobody at my school knew what a farm was.


Aren't there guys in jeans in Take Ivy?


----------



## hookem12387

I'm of a similar age (well, slightly older, but still in a school environment), but I've just gone with posting in the WAYWT thread. This is a good thread, as well, though. Maybe I'll go back and forth a bit


----------



## Peak and Pine

Peak and Pine said:


> ... if you're trying for that Take Ivy thing consider skipping the blue ones. At my school the kids left them down on the farm, but that's just an expression because nobody at my school knew what a farm was.





JakeLA said:


> Aren't there guys in jeans in Take Ivy?


I don't know because I've never seen _Take Ivy _(and don't understand the title) and the reason I haven't is that I was 18 in '63, lived in the north east and went to a private school so I sorta _was_ Take Ivy and we didn't wear blue jeans and I didn't know anybody who did. But I like them, now.


----------



## Jovan

For your digestion:
https://thetrad.blogspot.com/2009/06/take-ivy.html


----------



## inq89

Peachey Carnehan said:


> I also have the Bean rubber mocs, but no matter how I adjust the laces I can't get a tight fit...I wonder how yours fit you.


I haven't noticed them slipping. They fit well for me.



hobscrk777 said:


> Mind if I give this a try?


I would wear a darker pair of boat shoes/loafers to contrast the white pants. Nevertheless looks good and summer preppy.



hookem12387 said:


> I'm of a similar age (well, slightly older, but still in a school environment), but I've just gone with posting in the WAYWT thread. This is a good thread, as well, though. Maybe I'll go back and forth a bit


I saw some of your pics in WAYWT, looks good mate.

This thread is open to any young people to add in their own pics and advice, at the discretion of the more seasoned folks :biggrin:


----------



## hookem12387

hobscrk777 said:


> Mind if I give this a try?
> 
> Yes, I know that the lighting is terrible in the picture below. The pants are white.


 You look exactly like a friend of mine, right down to the blurry face. Crazy...you must have both seen The Ring


----------



## Cardinals5

Peak and Pine said:


> I don't know because I've never seen _Take Ivy _(and don't understand the title) and the reason I haven't is that I was 18 in '63, lived in the north east and went to a private school so I sorta _was_ Take Ivy and we didn't wear blue jeans and I didn't know anybody who did. But I like them, now.


You've got Take Ivy "street cred" :icon_viking: - soon you'll have the neighborhood kids knocking on your door to and adopting your style. As for the "Take Ivy" title, it's presumably the author not very subtle reference to Brubeck's Take Five.


----------



## mjo_1

I'll play along. Here's what I wore to class today:









Press OCBD w/ flap (my new favorite)
J Crew classic fit khakis
Leatherman signal flag belt
Sperrys

There are some very good looks here! inq89, your party wear looks like something I'd wear, except I might go with Red Wing 1155s. I really like the blueish duck heads as well....a good change from standard khaki.

Best,

Michael


----------



## Peak and Pine

Cardinals5 said:


> You've got Take Ivy "street cred" :icon_viking: - soon you'll have the neighborhood kids knocking on your door to and adopting your style.


Yeah. That'll happen. Right after I yell at them to get the hell off my lawn.

The kid who started this thread seems to be suggesting how to dress like I did when I was his age and for a price, by thrifting, that I paid when new. And that's interesting and I think he's doing it well and fairly accurately. However there were many of us Take Ivy types who didn't realize we were Take Ivy back when Take Ivy was actually happening and couldn't wait for the 1970s to happen on a hunch that someone might then invent a polyester 'n pimp heaven so we could break loose from the tweed 'n madras hell we were living in. Or something like that.

But then in butts Ralph Lauren, who in the late 60s realized America was headed for a sartorial cliff and decided to become the anchor not just for the status quo, but to reach back even before Take Ivy to probably what he thought was the 20s and 30s and design a line of apparel which he could spit out with very little change for the rest of his and my life. And thank god for that. I've been with him since '81. Sort of _Take Polo_. Meanwhile I _Left Ivy_.


----------



## Larsd4

mjo_1 said:


> I'll play along. Here's what I wore to class today:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Press OCBD w/ flap (my new favorite)
> J Crew classic fit khakis
> Leatherman signal flag belt
> Sperrys
> 
> There are some very good looks here! inq89, your party wear looks like something I'd wear, except I might go with Red Wing 1155s. I really like the blueish duck heads as well....a good change from standard khaki.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Michael


This looks great to me. A few minor tweaks: I'd skip the Topsiders and go with penny loafers or tassel loafers in cordovan. Otherwise, I'd wear the shirt and pants slightly rumpled with the Topsiders to dress it all down. Pressed shirt and chinos and old Topsiders look disparate to me. Also, cuff the pants if they're not (can't tell). They also look a half inch too long. I live in this combo. Watchband could be brighter if I really am looking hard. Overall a solid look. I love the Kennedy rolls on the sleeves.


----------



## mjo_1

^Thanks, and you make some good points. I have this strange need to iron everything, but maybe I should try going without. One thing is for sure - that Press shirt has spoiled me. The fabric is heavy yet soft all at once and seems to have a better fit than most I've tried. I can envision the old bank account taking a fall when the next 25% off sale comes along!


----------



## Jovan

Well, I personally think everything looks fine pressed, but that's just me. I think one can go either way. The Ivy students in the '50s wore pressed chinos, if AP's thread is any indication.


----------



## hookem12387

This thread has me thinking I may get the rubber mocs before proper bean boots. They look great, and it doesn't get all that cold down here. hrmmm


----------



## absent_prof

a!!!!1 said:


> Oh yeah, very nice. Personally I prefer to wear lighter shoes (light brown, sand, cognac, etc) but you pull off the outfit very well. Do you usually roll your sleeves up?
> 
> Also, in your other pic you said "business casual" but you're wearing boat shoes. I've never worked in a business casual environment so I'm surprised that boat shoes are actually acceptable??


Hey, ripped jeans and thongs are acceptable in business casual in Europe and Australia. Many Australians who go to the US are quite amazed as they have never seen a jacket worn at an office before full stop.


----------



## weezerdog

I am a few years removed from college but I easily fall in with the younger traddies on this board. I enjoyed digging this thread up and reading everyone's opinions.

Although I am young I identify strongly with the principals espoused by the more seasoned members of the board and within the last year or two I have gradually ascended into full traddom (jeans only a couple times a year, chinos all over the place, etc. etc.). My wife is decidedly less tradly than me (I am working on converting her) and thus is not as enthusiastic about my style of dress as I am. In fact, just last weekend she said I "looked like my dad." I know better than to let the opinions of those with different taste sway my own, but I wonder if there is some validity to the idea. There is a fine line between looking like a studly young trad and looking like an old man. I think this line is even finer when one is in his twenties.

My question then becomes: In what ways can a younger man remain true to the trad principles while retaining his youthful appearance? Maintaining an athletic physique, well tailored/sized clothing, etc. etc. all of course apply here but what other measures can a man take?


----------



## Valkyrie

I am on the older side of this demographic and I understand that times do change, but I have been wearing the same kinds of clothes my whole adult life, from the time I had my first job that required something more than jeans, some 40 years ago. One of the glories of "the look" we embrace is that things last and the styles endure. For me, ties that I bought in 1976 at BB can still be worn today without drawing a puzzled glance. The more youthful and less formal versions of trad (penny loafers, boat shoes, bean shoes, argyle socks, khakis, cords, surcingle belts, striped watch bands, crew neck sweaters, blazers, etc.) can still appropriately be worn by guys like me, although I occasionally get the opposite comment: that I dress like an 'school boy.' But I don't mind. It's the same outfit that is probably getting you called 'an old man.' Go for it. Embrace it. That's part of what makes it cool.

You can 'update,' by choosing slimmer fits, because good fit is always stylish, but it is the same basic group of clothes and accessories that you will be wearing for 50 years, if you like it, size adjusted. 

You can probably choose brighter colors and a larger selection of GTH selections than you might later, but then I have a glorious lemon yellow crew neck sweater that I wore today. And I collect kelly green ties because they look so great with navy blazers and suits.


----------



## Sartre

weezerdog said:


> ... In fact, just last weekend she said I "looked like my dad."...


In my day, that would have been a real compliment. Sad to see how things have changed. Today, the ultimate compliment would be that you dressed like your kids.

It's a shame because the essence of Ivy dressing is a kind of casual, youthful insouciance. I agree with the advice that Valkyrie provides above: slimmer fits and more colors. Also, don't be a slave to socks. Wear your shirt untucked under your crewneck sweater. Don't worry too much about matching colors. Wear slip-on shoes, not tie-ups. Don't iron everything to death (unless of course you are wearing it to work).

There's also a set of items out there that have found their way into "trad-dom" that I am on record as saying are too nerdy for words and that your wife would be justified in ribbing you for: things like tie bars, wingtips, saddle shoes, argyle sweaters, etc. I would also avoid cardigans if you are in your 20s, and, although I know I'm in the minority here, pocket squares. Save those until you make partner.


----------



## joenobody0

I realize that Polo RL isn't the most trad label, but I think they do "young prep" better than just about anyone. I can't imagine any wife complaining about their twenty-something husband wearing the nicer casual clothes that PRL puts out. 

If you don't want to shop with PRL at least take a look at how they style and combine their clothes. They are very much not "dad like".


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Sartre said:


> I would also avoid cardigans if you are in your 20s.


Although I agree with most of this post (and have taken quite a bit of advice from this thread), I have to shoot this part down.

On my campus, I see a ton of cardigans. They're usually too tight and too thin, but they're everywhere. I see them mostly with t-shirts and skinny jeans, but sometimes with chinos and buttondowns. They're not seen as nerdy and old-mannish, but as a slightly dressier alternative to a hoodie sweatshirt.


----------



## Jovan

Sartre said:


> In my day, that would have been a real compliment. Sad to see how things have changed. Today, the ultimate compliment would be that you dressed like your kids.
> 
> It's a shame because the essence of Ivy dressing is a kind of casual, youthful insouciance. I agree with the advice that Valkyrie provides above: slimmer fits and more colors. Also, don't be a slave to socks. *Wear your shirt untucked under your crewneck sweater.* Don't worry too much about matching colors. Wear slip-on shoes, not tie-ups. Don't iron everything to death (unless of course you are wearing it to work).
> 
> *There's also a set of items out there that have found their way into "trad-dom" that I am on record as saying are too nerdy for words and that your wife would be justified in ribbing you for: things like tie bars, wingtips, saddle shoes, argyle sweaters, etc.* I would also avoid cardigans if you are in your 20s, and, although I know I'm in the minority here, pocket squares. Save those until you make partner.


I'll never wear a shirt untucked under a sweater.

So... I look too nerdy for words AND like a wanker according to you. I'm glad my girlfriend disagrees.


----------



## Sartre

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> ...On my campus, I see a ton of cardigans. They're usually too tight and too thin, but they're everywhere. I see them mostly with t-shirts and skinny jeans, but sometimes with chinos and buttondowns. They're not seen as nerdy and old-mannish, but as a slightly dressier alternative to a hoodie sweatshirt.


Interesting. I see that as good news.



Jovan said:


> I'll never wear a shirt untucked under a sweater.
> 
> So... I look too nerdy for words AND like a wanker according to you. I'm glad my girlfriend disagrees.


What can I say? It's a matter of personal taste. I'm not offended that you don't like horsebit loafers or Belgians. You shouldn't be offended that I don't like all that retro stuff.


----------



## Jovan

The difference is that I'm not making accusations about the people wearing them.

"It's a matter of personal taste" -- but then you express your personal taste by saying the people who wear what you dislike are "too nerdy for words" and "look like a wanker". If someone said your friend looked like a junkie because he had a tattoo, wouldn't you take issue with that?

So... why the vitriol? I'm not personally offended, just honestly curious.


----------



## hardline_42

Sartre, in addition to Jovan's query, I'm curious what you think about the fact that the things you mentioned in your post as being "too nerdy for words" (*tie bars, wingtips, , argyle sweaters*https://bananarepublic.gap.com/brow...http://www.gap.com/products/mens-sweaters.jsp) are all the rage on the blogs and at the mall. It might be your opinion that these things are nerdy, but they're far from being "old man."


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## WouldaShoulda

If it looks like a wanker,

and quacks like a wanker,

it probably IS a wanker!!


----------



## Sartre

Jovan said:


> The difference is that I'm not making accusations about the people wearing them.
> 
> "It's a matter of personal taste" -- but then you express your personal taste by saying the people who wear what you dislike are "too nerdy for words" and "look like a wanker". If someone said your friend looked like a junkie because he had a tattoo, wouldn't you take issue with that?
> 
> So... why the vitriol? I'm not personally offended, just honestly curious.


Hold on there. I did not say that the people who wear what I dislike are too nerdy for words -- I said that the clothing items mentioned are too nerdy for words. And I stand by my opinion that the items are nerdy, just as I assume you stand by your opinion that Belgian loafers are "effete."

I did not call you a wanker. I said you risked looking like a wanker, and I would not even have said that had you not implied that the reason I did not like said items was that I did not have the "courage" to wear them. I felt that snide comment deserved one in return. I'm willing to put up the white flag if you are.



hardline_42 said:


> Sartre, in addition to Jovan's query, I'm curious what you think about the fact that the things you mentioned in your post as being "too nerdy for words" (*tie bars, wingtips, , argyle sweaters*) are all the rage on the blogs and at the mall. It might be your opinion that these things are nerdy, but they're far from being "old man."


This is not much of an argument; the blogs and malls are full of stuff I wouldn't be seen dead in a ditch with. I acknowledge that there is a retro Mad Men vibe out there that's brought all this kind of stuff into the malls, and the blogs, but that doesn't make it any more attractive, in my opinion, or youthful, despite the fact that youth may be wearing it. There is a Pee Wee Herman/Dagwood Bumstead flavor to it all that is completely intentional -- you get that, don't you? I mean, have you seen the eyeglasses people are running around with today? I understand that it's a "look"; and I don't care for it.


----------



## hardline_42

Sartre said:


> This is not much of an argument; the blogs and malls are full of stuff I wouldn't be seen dead in a ditch with. I acknowledge that there is a retro Mad Men vibe out there that's brought all this kind of stuff into the malls, and the blogs, but that doesn't make it any more attractive, in my opinion, or youthful, despite the fact that youth may be wearing it. There is a Pee Wee Herman/Dagwood Bumstead flavor to it all that is completely intentional -- you get that, don't you? I mean, have you seen the eyeglasses people are running around with today? I understand that it's a "look"; and I don't care for it.


I get that you, personally, don't like that stuff. It didn't come off as clearly to me in your original comment. I was also assuming that "youthful" was precisely what the "youth" is wearing, in this context.


----------



## Jovan

Sartre said:


> Hold on there. I did not say that the people who wear what I dislike are too nerdy for words -- I said that the clothing items mentioned are too nerdy for words. And I stand by my opinion that the items are nerdy, just as I assume you stand by your opinion that Belgian loafers are "effete."
> 
> I did not call you a wanker. I said you risked looking like a wanker, and I would not even have said that had you not implied that the reason I did not like said items was that I did not have the "courage" to wear them. I felt that snide comment deserved one in return. I'm willing to put up the white flag if you are.


It was intended as a light hearted joke...


----------



## Atterberg

Thanks for this thread. I'm going to acquire a pair of Levi's 501s. Sounds fun!


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

Atterberg said:


> Thanks for this thread. I'm going to acquire a pair of Levi's 501s. Sounds fun!


I got Wrangler 936s instead, and I think they're pretty great. I prefer them, because I bought mine unwashed and it came to under $30 including shipping. That was from Sheplers, a cowboy outfitter in Kansas City, during a sale.


----------



## Jovan

I'm very close to trying a pair of Wrangler myself. The Levi's 501 STF are okay, but definitely not as they used to be. Plus, the front rise listed on the website is rather misleading. It does in fact measure 12.25, but the waistband is pitched forward and the back rise is comparatively short, making them the same as every other company that has lowered their jean rise. Although they were of lesser quality, I preferred Lee jeans, fit wise.


----------



## chadwick

How to know when someone, whether old or young, is definitely not "preppy":

1. Whenever someone describes themselves as preppy or even brings it up in the context of it being a part of their lifestyle or something they are interested in portraying to others.
2. AND ESPECIALLY if they are representing themselves as an expert able to help others "pull off the preppy look". 

The bottom line - you most likely aren't preppy and you never will be and if you have to talk about it then congratulations on removing all doubt. 

...Now let's get back to talking about nice clothes we enjoy wearing....


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

chadwick said:


> How to know when someone, whether old or young, is definitely not "preppy":
> 
> 1. Whenever someone describes themselves as preppy or even brings it up in the context of it being a part of their lifestyle or something they are interested in portraying to others.
> 2. AND ESPECIALLY if they are representing themselves as an expert able to help others "pull off the preppy look".
> 
> The bottom line - you most likely aren't preppy and you never will be and if you have to talk about it then congratulations on removing all doubt.
> 
> ...Now let's get back to talking about nice clothes we enjoy wearing....


I think worrying about "prep credentials" (or "prep-dentials," as I hope no one in the world calls them), is far from "preppy," or even worthwhile. For goodness sakes, it's a term that was popularized by _Love Story_. The other popular term from that is "love means never having to say you're sorry," which, as anyone who's ever referred to a significant other as S.W.M.B.O. knows, is just not true. :smile:


----------



## chadwick

Youthful Repp-robate said:


> I think worrying about "prep credentials" (or "prep-dentials," as I hope no one in the world calls them), is far from "preppy," or even worthwhile. For goodness sakes, it's a term that was popularized by _Love Story_. The other popular term from that is "love means never having to say you're sorry," which, as anyone who's ever referred to a significant other as S.W.M.B.O. knows, is just not true. :smile:


But truly, who even really knows what "preppy" is supposed to mean anymore? Credentials aside, the silliness is in the ideas ascribed to the term and the subsequent striving for it.


----------



## Youthful Repp-robate

chadwick said:


> But truly, who even really knows what "preppy" is supposed to mean anymore? Credentials aside, the silliness is in the ideas ascribed to the term and the subsequent striving for it.


I agree. I think it's a term that doesn't mean very much, and which means different things to different people, so I rarely use it.


----------



## Essential

This is a beautiful post. I'm currently a senior in high school and have wholly embraced the whole "College Trad" idea. I'm still working on my wardrobe and plan to use your checklist to acquire a few more core pieces. However, I don't think I'll be able to give up my T-shirts yet (don't worry, they aren't too shabby). I need to work on wearing more Trad clothing instead of switching back and forth between Trad and T-shirts. I didn't really like your fit in the pictures though. It appears to have the characteristics of the whole American exuberance thing- meaning that the clothes fit albeit they allow for a lot of wiggle room. Like many youngsters nowadays, and even some adults, I like a slim fit. To me, it gives a cleaner look and looks better overall. Anyways, I don't want to write too much yet so I'll let this post be for now.


----------



## MicTester

I am still stuck on the missing socks. To me, once the shirt gets tucked into pants, socks have to be there. Add baptism or easter to the mix, there is no doubt in my mind.

A finer point which may escape a casual reader. You do not want to be spending $40 worth of your time to save $20. The reason why people of this forum spend such time is because they enjoy it, not necessarily for saving. Most of us can actually save more by paying full price if we factor our time cost. Thrifting and deal hunting is not economical. It is only for the committed and involved enthusiasts.


----------



## Tilton

MicTester said:


> I am still stuck on the missing socks. To me, once the shirt gets tucked into pants, socks have to be there. Add baptism or easter to the mix, there is no doubt in my mind.
> 
> A finer point which may escape a casual reader. You do not want to be spending $40 worth of your time to save $20. The reason why people of this forum spend such time is because they enjoy it, not necessarily for saving. Most of us can actually save more by paying full price if we factor our time cost. Thrifting and deal hunting is not economical. It is only for the committed and involved enthusiasts.


There are times when socks are necessary and times when they are not. Similarly, there are shoes that necessitate socks and shoes that do not. It's really a matter of occasion. I can say that when I was in college, outside of pledging, I never once wore dress socks and indeed only wore socks with athletic shoes or boots. If I was dressing up for a college event, socks were just not part of the equation. I wore loafers (sockless) or western-style boots (with boot socks) and I was never out of place or straying from the norm. Most college guys consider Sebago penny loafers to be formidable dress shoes for any occasion outside of a job interview and most college administrators feel the same way. There's a huge difference between academia and the real world, of course, and in the year since graduating I have rarely NOT worn socks when wearing a blazer or a tie.


----------



## inq89

Cool to see this thread still going. I am the OP. I wrote the original article almost two years ago and have since started a blog and updated my writing in the article (which reading it now, seems a bit scattered and needed to be revised haha)

I urge that all new readers refer to my blog. /noselfpromote



In response to Chadwick and others, I write the blog and the article as soley for advice to young people ages 18 to mid 20s who have never been in "prep" and "trad". I target those who are complete beginners and are assumed to have never worn penny loafers or educated in prep academies. Myself included when I first got into this style. So I approach it in conventional terms and in a language as I would speak to someone my age. Also, I advertise largely my own style (a self described mix of past and current trends, both regional and overall), which I believe is representative and appropriate of present prep/trad tradition as a college student would wear right now in the 2010s. I accept and respect that there is some advice that is disagreeable to others.


----------



## inq89

weezerdog said:


> My question then becomes: In what ways can a younger man remain true to the trad principles while retaining his youthful appearance? Maintaining an athletic physique, well tailored/sized clothing, etc. etc. all of course apply here but what other measures can a man take?


Just saw this and wanted to add my 2 cents. Besides remaining physically well kept and paying attention to fitting/tailoring, it depends largely on being able to wear different masks in terms of clothing choice.

I don't wear "trad" every single moment of my life. When I go out on dates, to the bars, clubs, etc. I switch from trad to fashion-forward and sexy. Clothes gets slim, modern, sophisticated. More so GQ than Take Ivy. But I don't go overboard with the hipster jeans or anything. I like J.Crew's aesthetic, albeit not necessarily their clothes (although they've been getting better recently).

My go-to attire for such occasions is a perfectly tailored sportcoat with pocket square, slim wide spread collar shirt, maybe a 2" knit tie with tie clip, engine turned buckle and belt, Levis 501 stf or APC New Standards, and chukkas. Something you'd see in J Crew catelogs. Clean, simple, mature but not _old._ Then have fun with the standard...switch up the denim with slim wool slacks, wear loud socks, mix patterns, etc.


----------



## chadwick

inq89 said:


> Cool to see this thread still going. I am the OP. I wrote the original article almost two years ago and have since started a blog and updated my writing in the article (which reading it now, seems a bit scattered and needed to be revised haha)
> 
> I urge that all new readers refer to my blog. /noselfpromote
> 
> In response to Chadwick and others, I write the blog and the article as soley for advice to young people ages 18 to mid 20s who have never been in "prep" and "trad". I target those who are complete beginners and are assumed to have never worn penny loafers or educated in prep academies. Myself included when I first got into this style. So I approach it in conventional terms and in a language as I would speak to someone my age. Also, I advertise largely my own style (a self described mix of past and current trends, both regional and overall), which I believe is representative and appropriate of present prep/trad tradition as a college student would wear right now in the 2010s. I accept and respect that there is some advice that is disagreeable to others.


I'm still trying to figure out what the purpose would be for someone who is completely outside of a natural appreciation for a certain kind of clothing "look" to need some "guideline" help in "pulling it off" unless the purpose is to portray some postured image that isn't already instinctively compatible with that person's lifestyle -- in which case it just looks farcical and manufactured. People should just wear what they like and be who they are. If it is considered "trad" fine, if it isn't, who cares?

...I would assume that when someone goes shopping they already have an understanding of what they like and don't like based on their taste and aren't adhering to some list of what is an "okay" pattern or "cut" that helps them to maintain some kind of supposed "tradyness".

Basically, if it needs to be explained or validated through a "dos & dont's" checklist...it's just silly IMO.


----------



## Canadian

I suppose to define being trad, one defeats the purpose. The "look" is best defined as being the anti-look. For example, the subset of trad, being American preppy is defined primarily as a joke. If you have to be told how to look, how to live, who to date, etc, you are ceasing to be a person and are in fact a reflection of a concept which was defined as being a subculture.

A good way to explain it, if you need to be told you're a prepster, or a tradly person, you probably aren't. I was into classic trad well before I found AAAC or bought an OPH. By the time one defines oneself as trad or any subset, one is rejecting the idea that the culture is self-taught and lacks a definition.

As for this forum, I don't care how one spends one's summers or where one works. I am instead interested in how we dress, what classic styles we can obtain, where to buy such items and where to get good prices. I have no interest in defining "trad" or threads like, "Is X trad?".

Thomas


----------



## inq89

chadwick said:


> I'm still trying to figure out what the purpose ....


 Chadwick, you'd be surprised my friend! Many young guys, "_who [are] completely outside of a natural appreciation_" of trad/prep make up the majority of my readers. You're right in assuming that many of these young guys didn't grow up in the NE, went to Yale, or came from wealth. Neither did I, and like them, have used the internet to gather 100% of our sartorial personalities. As you say, _"people should just wear what they like_" Well, some grow into prep, just like you and I have. So I don't personally believe that it creates conflicts of "_farcical and manufactured_" lifestyles for a freshman in college to want to dress preppy even though he was not raised in Connecticut. Assuming that trad/prep is just a clothing style as I consider it. I was in that kid's shoes once just a few years ago, knowing what I liked but not necessarily how to get there. And so my blog is set up to educate that young man on what I have learned. Since creating this thread, I have received a few messages from new AAAC members thanking me for the advice. They were curious in the style but just didn't know where to start. That is exactly my intent.

Touching on your second paragraph....I'm afraid you are giving too much credit in making that assumption. Most young guys don't event think about what is an "_okay pattern or cut_", much less aware of said pattern and cut that makes something trad, i.e. a Trad Mannerism that I talk about on the blog. Some guys my age think that shorts below the knee are fine, while in reality they look like overgrown clowns.

Don't you check the style forums and blogs to see what's approved and what isn't? Approved, as in what is the best of the best in quality and style? What's been proven to work? Isn't that the point why we join AAAC or SF...to not just converse about clothes, but to learn? 5 years ago when I was 18 years old, I literally never heard of Allen Edmonds, much less knew about their high quality for the price point. So its safe to assume that the average 18 year old doesn't have that knowledge either. So "_adhearing to some list_" is my way of informally pushing the reader towards what we already know. That, Brooks Brothers 1818 Fitzgerald suits are a good starter suit for the first interview. Or that Shaggy Dogs are classic sweaters. And that Alden is a great shoe company. All of the above are completely new concepts to the beginner, no? It may come off as a checklist, but I'm sure its the same advice you'd give too right? The basics and the essentials for what we consider to be classic style.

Chadwick, let's say for the sake of argument, you attended prep school in the NE, your father and grandfather dressed in trad, and you knew and wore all the trad brands from a young age. Now imagine someone like myself, growing up in the south, whos father and mother were immigrants and lacked any form of trad style, and up until High School, wore Abercrombie and Hollister. Once I became attracted to prep and trad, I needed guidance on where to begin. What brands were good and which weren't. How to wear button downs casually. Why penny loafers are cool and not just for people over 40. I purposely write in a matter-of-fact penmanship to "_maintain some kind of supposed tradyness_". That I freely admit. Because Express is not trad. Pointy shoes are not trad. Tommy Hilfiger, as it turns out, is not fashionably accepted as I once previously thought. That thrifting is not only cheap and great for a college budget, but is absolutely trad-approved and should be encouraged and not shamed upon. 5 years ago I didn't know that, and neither does today's 18 year old freshman. And the culmination of information I've learned since my humble start is now in the guide and the blog.

I would like to add, not specifically for Chadwick but generally:

*As stated in the OP, the guide was not originally written for AAAC but for another forum*, and I just reposted it here on the off chance that my targeted reader (young men under 25) happened upon it. When I first joined, I searched for a beginner's guide and advice for college kids. It's obvious that the average age on this forum is older than other forums. I found maybe one or two threads, and years later I made the OP to fill that gap. I'm not going to link to that forum (i.e. think 4Chan or Reddit), but it serves as a perfect example of college-aged guys just getting into prep, and the reason why I write. I give out my advice to them on that forum and a lot of them read my blog. Which is a feeder to AAAC, The Trad, Ive-Style, and so on...to help further educate their interests. Maybe they like the prep lifestyle or maybe they dont...but there's no rule against wearing nantucket reds in Montana. Especially for my generation, with things so accessible these days, there is less of putting up a facade of WASP imagery as just expressing oneself in clothing. I am not a WASP. But I do love prep/trad. That reflects in my target reader. Someone who never grew around prep clothing but wants to learn and dress it. And doing so does require some sort of rigidiy, or otherwise, the beginner may end up thinking American Eagle is still cool, while really its just a bastardization of prep. So the guide and my blog is set up like a Trad 101 class, the 19th credit hour for the freshman reader.



Canadian said:


> I suppose to define being trad, one defeats the purpose....


 Canadian, I always abide by the fact that, to me, trad is just a clothing style, and the clothing style I exhibit on my blog is my own interpretation and therefore its up to the reader to decide what he likes. So I don't try to be finicky with instances as "_Is X trad_" in anything more than just tounge-and-cheek and for the fun of it. I can't define trad. You're right...it's an anti-look...most of Generation Y and Z think its boring and for old men. Alot of guys on the forum I talked of above think that Sperry boat shoes are hideous. So I made the guide and the blog with that approach. It's why I use stupid knockaround terms like "tradly", "waspy" and "frattastic" in my writings. It's not meant to be black and white and I hope the reader understands that. It's all for fun, but it is also easier to say "this is X" in cases of Allen Edmonds is trad-approved and Nunn Bush is not because of quality...an actual question that I answered from a reader.

Canadian, why would you rather buy a BB OCBD and not a Nautica? The answer is exactly why I write in defined principles. Beginners actually do have to be advised on what is accepted and what isn't, and I don't mean that in a negative way saying that they can't make up their own minds. But beginners are simply ignorant and uneducated on "what the best brand of chinos are" and "what's the difference between dress shirts and OCBDs?" I sure as hell was ignorant too when I first joined AAAC. I'll save them the mistakes I made and lead them to what you and I already know as seasoned veterans of trad. Those are the issues I address. Most 18 year olds consider a button-down tucked into chinos to be formal, and have never heard of J Press or Alden. The guide and blog is for them.

Not sure if I touched on everything that Chadwick and Canadian said. But I do highly appreciate and respect their comments. Just adding in more .02 to the bank. Sorry for the long response and for further distracting from sartorial discussion.


----------



## chadwick

inq89 said:


> Chadwick, you'd be surprised my friend! Many young guys, "_who [are] completely outside of a natural appreciation_" of trad/prep make up the majority of my readers. You're right in assuming that many of these young guys didn't grow up in the NE, went to Yale, or came from wealth. Neither did I, and like them, have used the internet to gather 100% of our sartorial personalities. As you say, _"people should just wear what they like_" Well, some grow into prep, just like you and I have. So I don't personally believe that it creates conflicts of "_farcical and manufactured_" lifestyles for a freshman in college to want to dress preppy even though he was not raised in Connecticut. Assuming that trad/prep is just a clothing style as I consider it. I was in that kid's shoes once just a few years ago, knowing what I liked but not necessarily how to get there. And so my blog is set up to educate that young man on what I have learned. Since creating this thread, I have received a few messages from new AAAC members thanking me for the advice. They were curious in the style but just didn't know where to start. That is exactly my intent.
> 
> Touching on your second paragraph....I'm afraid you are giving too much credit in making that assumption. Most young guys don't event think about what is an "_okay pattern or cut_", much less aware of said pattern and cut that makes something trad, i.e. a Trad Mannerism that I talk about on the blog. Some guys my age think that shorts below the knee are fine, while in reality they look like overgrown clowns.
> 
> Don't you check the style forums and blogs to see what's approved and what isn't? Approved, as in what is the best of the best in quality and style? What's been proven to work? Isn't that the point why we join AAAC or SF...to not just converse about clothes, but to learn? 5 years ago when I was 18 years old, I literally never heard of Allen Edmonds, much less knew about their high quality for the price point. So its safe to assume that the average 18 year old doesn't have that knowledge either. So "_adhearing to some list_" is my way of informally pushing the reader towards what we already know. That, Brooks Brothers 1818 Fitzgerald suits are a good starter suit for the first interview. Or that Shaggy Dogs are classic sweaters. And that Alden is a great shoe company. All of the above are completely new concepts to the beginner, no? It may come off as a checklist, but I'm sure its the same advice you'd give too right? The basics and the essentials for what we consider to be classic style.
> 
> Chadwick, let's say for the sake of argument, you attended prep school in the NE, your father and grandfather dressed in trad, and you knew and wore all the trad brands from a young age. Now imagine someone like myself, growing up in the south, whos father and mother were immigrants and lacked any form of trad style, and up until High School, wore Abercrombie and Hollister. Once I became attracted to prep and trad, I needed guidance on where to begin. What brands were good and which weren't. How to wear button downs casually. Why penny loafers are cool and not just for people over 40. I purposely write in a matter-of-fact penmanship to "_maintain some kind of supposed tradyness_". That I freely admit. Because Express is not trad. Pointy shoes are not trad. Tommy Hilfiger, as it turns out, is not fashionably accepted as I once previously thought. That thrifting is not only cheap and great for a college budget, but is absolutely trad-approved and should be encouraged and not shamed upon. 5 years ago I didn't know that, and neither does today's 18 year old freshman. And the culmination of information I've learned since my humble start is now in the guide and the blog.
> 
> I would like to add, not specifically for Chadwick but generally:
> 
> *As stated in the OP, the guide was not originally written for AAAC but for another forum*, and I just reposted it here on the off chance that my targeted reader (young men under 25) happened upon it. When I first joined, I searched for a beginner's guide and advice for college kids. It's obvious that the average age on this forum is older than other forums. I found maybe one or two threads, and years later I made the OP to fill that gap. I'm not going to link to that forum (i.e. think 4Chan or Reddit), but it serves as a perfect example of college-aged guys just getting into prep, and the reason why I write. I give out my advice to them on that forum and a lot of them read my blog. Which is a feeder to AAAC, The Trad, Ive-Style, and so on...to help further educate their interests. Maybe they like the prep lifestyle or maybe they dont...but there's no rule against wearing nantucket reds in Montana. Especially for my generation, with things so accessible these days, there is less of putting up a facade of WASP imagery as just expressing oneself in clothing. I am not a WASP. But I do love prep/trad. That reflects in my target reader. Someone who never grew around prep clothing but wants to learn and dress it. And doing so does require some sort of rigidiy, or otherwise, the beginner may end up thinking American Eagle is still cool, while really its just a bastardization of prep. So the guide and my blog is set up like a Trad 101 class, the 19th credit hour for the freshman reader.
> 
> Canadian, I always abide by the fact that, to me, trad is just a clothing style, and the clothing style I exhibit on my blog is my own interpretation and therefore its up to the reader to decide what he likes. So I don't try to be finicky with instances as "_Is X trad_" in anything more than just tounge-and-cheek and for the fun of it. I can't define trad. You're right...it's an anti-look...most of Generation Y and Z think its boring and for old men. Alot of guys on the forum I talked of above think that Sperry boat shoes are hideous. So I made the guide and the blog with that approach. It's why I use stupid knockaround terms like "tradly", "waspy" and "frattastic" in my writings. It's not meant to be black and white and I hope the reader understands that. It's all for fun, but it is also easier to say "this is X" in cases of Allen Edmonds is trad-approved and Nunn Bush is not because of quality...an actual question that I answered from a reader.
> 
> Canadian, why would you rather buy a BB OCBD and not a Nautica? The answer is exactly why I write in defined principles. Beginners actually do have to be advised on what is accepted and what isn't, and I don't mean that in a negative way saying that they can't make up their own minds. But beginners are simply ignorant and uneducated on "what the best brand of chinos are" and "what's the difference between dress shirts and OCBDs?" I sure as hell was ignorant too when I first joined AAAC. I'll save them the mistakes I made and lead them to what you and I already know as seasoned veterans of trad. Those are the issues I address. Most 18 year olds consider a button-down tucked into chinos to be formal, and have never heard of J Press or Alden. The guide and blog is for them.
> 
> Not sure if I touched on everything that Chadwick and Canadian said. But I do highly appreciate and respect their comments. Just adding in more .02 to the bank. Sorry for the long response and for further distracting from sartorial discussion.


Well, you get  props for being very passionate about the subject and defending your point of view. You did manage, however, to take an awful lot of dangerously assumptive liberty in suggesting that I'm as interested in "growing into prep" as you are. I do not consider myself "preppy" and I quite frankly find it to be a dirty word. So, I appreciate your generosity in wanting to share but I'll let you keep all of it. 

I just assumed when I first found this place that people were here to discuss the kinds of clothes they were already wearing (how would one even find the place without knowing the proper terms?) -- Strangely, it turns out that category is in the minority.

You did raise a very valid point that someone does not need to grow up in Connecticut to have a natural appreciation for the more classic/timeless clothing pieces. Heck, Connecticut is home to some of the most irreparable plebs around -- have you ever been there? Even fairfield county itself houses both some of the richest as well as poorest neighborhoods/towns/cities in the country. Bridgeport is a universe away from New Canaan, for instance.

My main point was that someone shouldn't be following a guideline in order to portray a certain image of what they don't naturally find appealing. Think along the lines of a genuine individual liking what they like regardless of what others think.

IMHO, many of the people on here take their fantasized immersion into this "trady/waspy/preppy" lifestyle way too seriously. I find myself wearing athletic attire, T-shirts and hoodies just as much as polos, chinos/chino shorts, oxfords, sweaters, etc. It's about wearing what's appropriate for the activity. Ever heard of comfort? Why do I like neat/classic/timeless styled clothes? Because I like the look and that they don't go out of style and I hate the idea of having to constantly update my wardrobe to fit with a fashion trend.


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## hookem12387

I guess this is inherent in a_ forum about clothes_, but some of yall seem to put too much thought into what you're wearing/going to wear. It sounds like a lot of work.


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## Tilton

hookem12387 said:


> I guess this is inherent in a_ forum about clothes_, but some of yall seem to put too much thought into what you're wearing/going to wear. It sounds like a lot of work.


Right?

Also, I didn't know anyone in college who wore athletic apparel or "hoodies" unless they were doing something athletic or pulling a marathon study session. T-shirts? Fishing shorts? Sneakers? Sure. But a little less often than polo shirts, ocbds, chinos, and topsiders. But that comes with the territory when you go to a small private college that is 80% greek. Your location is missing, but I presume if it was commonplace to wear athletic gear to class, you either go to a large state school or don't go to school on the East Coast, which is fine. Fashion and style differ immensely from location to location. Case in point, few people on this forum wear cowboy boots with a suit but I do it all the time and so do many people I work with but on the other hand I would never wear a tie with jeans but plenty of people are doing just that when I visit NYC.


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## inq89

chadwick said:


> Well....


True, I made the assumption that we both feel as strongly on diehard prep/trad, but really its just me that takes it too far! Actually I have always agreed too with wearing what is right for the occasion. I trade my chinos with denim after 6pm (don't tell Muffy Aldrich!). And study sessions in the library for me=sweatpants and coffee stains.

And I agree with your main takeaway point as well. Which is why I leave the caveat that the "guide" is from my biased perspective and its up to the reader to decide what he likes and can adapt into his own fashion.

Nope never been to CT. I don't spend much time in Yankee country! Cheers



hookem12387 said:


> ...but some of yall seem to put too much thought into what you're wearing/going to wear. It sounds like a lot of work.


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