# Roll / Lump behind the jacket collar



## rssmsvc777 (Jun 20, 2005)

Hello,

I know this must have been discussed but I couldn't find a thread with the exact information.

Occasionally, I notice when I try on a new jacket I see a roll in the back of the jacket about 1 inch from the top of the collar in the back of the jacket.

Is that because the shoulders of the jacket are too tight and is it an easy operation to fix ?


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## jsgoode (Nov 3, 2006)

If am understanding you correctly, more often than not when that collar roll occurs it is due to the fact that your posture is too erect for the jacket. Your neck is pushing against the collar and creating that roll.


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## satorstyle (Jan 2, 2007)

A decent tailor can take care of that for a reasonable cost.


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## Medsar (Dec 31, 2006)

yes my tailor always notices the roll behind the neck and reduces the fabric there whether it is 1 cm or 1 inch. I was just at an interview for graduate school with 6 other men and I noticed that everyone had that roll on the back of their suit jackets. I doubt they noticed that it was missing on mine.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

I commonly have this problem. My tailor says it's due to having square shoulders. The fix is known as "collar shortening" and any competent alterations tailor should be able to do it. My guy charges about $15.


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## rssmsvc777 (Jun 20, 2005)

Excellent, thank you for the information. I didn't know what it was.


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## DuncanM64 (Apr 15, 2005)

PJC in NoVa said:


> I commonly have this problem. My tailor says it's due to having square shoulders. The fix is known as "collar shortening" and any competent alterations tailor should be able to do it. My guy charges about $15.


 I asked William Field about this the other day and he put it as the suit was too round and not my shoulders too square .


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## summej2 (Dec 19, 2005)

Curiously, I find that my older (60's) suits don't have this while my newer suits do. Might this be because older suits had smaller chest for a given shoulder width? 

Brioni, with its square shoulder, never gives me this problem.


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## A Questionable Gentleman (Jun 16, 2006)

I often have this problem. My tailor explained it to me as a case of my posture being rather erect while RTW suits are often made for slouchier figures.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

DuncanM64 said:


> I asked William Field about this the other day and he put it as the suit was too round and not my shoulders too square .


How I wish I could afford to have Wm. Field the Younger make a suit for me and tell me flattering stuff like that about whatever RTW suit I wore into his shop! :icon_smile_wink:


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## CharlieChannel (Mar 16, 2006)

*I think the Collar needs to be lowered*



satorstyle said:


> A decent tailor can take care of that for a reasonable cost.


 They have to lower it (cut out fabric). Or is it raise it? It can be
done, maybe 30-50 bucks?


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## CharlieChannel (Mar 16, 2006)

*Good one!*



DuncanM64 said:


> I asked William Field about this the other day and he put it as the suit was too round and not my shoulders too square .


 My suitmaker says my shirtsleeves are too short, and
Hilditch says my suit sleeves are too long (Hilditch is right).


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## fullgrain (Jan 5, 2007)

DuncanM64 said:


> I asked William Field about this the other day and he put it as the suit was too round and not my shoulders too square .


I love it. As one of the square-shouldered brethren, I'm going to start using that explanation.

I'll second Summej2's experience. My 60s suits seem to have narrower, squarer shoulders. I've got several that measure 40" under the arms and have 17-17.5" shoulders, where the same chest in contemporary ones seem to go 18-18.5 or more. Of course it could be I'm self selecting...


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## Chris Despos (Nov 30, 2005)

One question...three answers.

A roll will develop if the slope of your shoulder is more square (horizontal) than the slope of the jacket shoulder. Every manufacturer defines their own amount of slope in cutting the jacket shoulder and the thickness or amount of padding used. That is a defining issue of their silhouette. That is why some jackets will have a roll and others won't. 

The correction is to square the shoulders. Either the back alone or square on the front and back. Depends on severity. Squaring the back too much can result in a short back. The back of the jacket will flare out and or up at the bottom. This calls for the back to be raised to balance the jacket.
If the shoulder is squared a big amount the tailor should open the sleeves to keep the line of shoulder straight and clean. You don't want to see where the work starts and stops on the shoulder seam.

If your posture is erect the roll will be across the whole back, not just at the center back. The jacket back will be resting on the hips. The back part is lowered across the back from each shoulder point at both sleeves. Jacket could also be shortened on the side seams.

If you have a broad back or large shoulder blades this will cause tension on the back and the tightness will produce horizontal wrinkles. The center 
back seam needs to be let out and more fullness on the back part of the shoulder seams to put more cloth over the blades.

Problem could be any combination of these three causes as well.

Shortening a collar is done when the collar is too long for the neck opening.
You do this when you see a gap between jacket collar and your neck. It may need to be done when squaring shoulders but not usually.


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## ptolbert (May 12, 2005)

PJC in NoVa said:


> I commonly have this problem. My tailor says it's due to having square shoulders. The fix is known as "collar shortening" and any competent alterations tailor should be able to do it. My guy charges about $15.


Careful sir, Shortening the collar is an entirely different alteration, one removes the collar and shortens it from notch to notch.

The alteration at hand is known as shorten back/ lower the collar. The tailor removes the extra fabric from the seam just below the collar.


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## AjWhipple (Jan 2, 2007)

It's caused by the transmitter/receiver for your wireless earphone. Try wearing it on your belt instead.


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## fullgrain (Jan 5, 2007)

Chris Despos said:


> The correction is to square the shoulders.


Chris, I take it this then, is different than lowering the collar. As I understand it, in the latter, extra material is taken from the bulge just below the collar. (Or is that the solution to a short neck?) What you are describing is is actually undoing the shoulder seams and reshaping the slope?

I'm very interested in this question as I've experienced very few tailors who were able to make this correction to my satisfaction...


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## schneidergott (Sep 7, 2007)

Hello!

These are opposite alterations. Easiest is to lower the back. In this case you reshape the shoulder seams as well. The collar will not be shortened.
Squaring the shoulders is a large alteration, because the sleeves have to be removed and widened, if necessary.
So much for the basics.
If you have an erect posture the body is usually longer in the front than in the back . Other way round with a stooping figure. This is what a tailor calls the "balance". This would have to be a pattern for the erect posture(if it's only square shoulders, the seams would be raised by the necessary amount):
https://img267.imageshack.us/my.php?image=erect2oo6.jpg

Back to your problem. If you have square shoulders and the coat has not, there should be a "gap" around your neck, because the coat/collar is lifted by your shoulders. If that is the case, squaring the shoulders will be best(or try a different coat-maker).
If you have an erect figure(see picture) and the front part is not pulled up too much (front will be shorter than the back), you can have the back shortened.
In case you have strong blades, easiest alteration would be to shape the coat's back in that area with the steam iron, given that the fabric allows it(flannel or any softer material is best). When the cloth is stiff, a dart might be necessary.
In either way I would recommend to look for a coat-maker, who cuts a squarer shoulder.

Hope I could help. I know all the correct terms in German, so this explanation might sound a bit weird. My apologies for that.

SG


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## windsor (Dec 12, 2006)

Welcome to the forum and thank you for your informative post.


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## Martin Stall (Sep 11, 2006)

Hello Schneidergott. Nice to see you could make it :icon_smile:

Re


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## windsor (Dec 12, 2006)

PJC in NoVa said:


> I commonly have this problem. My tailor says it's due to having square shoulders. The fix is known as "collar shortening" and any competent alterations tailor should be able to do it. My guy charges about $15.


I suspect a problem here. Either your tailor has something different in mind when he says "shortening the collar" or the fifteen dollar price is wrong....or he is in some third world country. That operation involves removing at least half of the collar and then putting it back with a lot of hand work. 15.00 sounds too cheap to me.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

windsor said:


> I suspect a problem here. Either your tailor has something different in mind when he says "shortening the collar" or the fifteen dollar price is wrong....or he is in some third world country. That operation involves removing at least half of the collar and then putting it back with a lot of hand work. 15.00 sounds too cheap to me.


He's definitely not in a Third World country.

I'll double check on the price, but I don't think I'm far off.

Perhaps he calls it "lowering the collar"? I'll check on that too.


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## windsor (Dec 12, 2006)

Lowering the collar is a different alteration than shortening.
Ripples or folds on the back beneath the collar requires LOWERING>
Collar standing away from the neck, also known as "prole gap" requires SHORTENING
These are two common problems and the above solutions are not to be understood as the only remedies. There can be more complicated situations requiring other tailoring solutions. I am not a tailor.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

windsor said:


> Lowering the collar is a different alteration than shortening.
> Ripples or folds on the back beneath the collar requires LOWERING>
> Collar standing away from the neck, also known as "prole gap" requires SHORTENING
> These are two common problems and the above solutions are not to be understood as the only remedies. There can be more complicated situations requiring other tailoring solutions. I am not a tailor.


Then it's gotta be lowering for me, since my problem is the "package of hotdogs" thingie between my shoulder blades, not the collar standing away from the back of my neck thingie.

I've noticed that H-F suits seem to do this less to me than other makers' RTW suits. That must mean H-F cuts their suitcoats with shoulders whose slope more closely approximates that of my own shoulders: Hmmm, another reason to shop for H-F suits . . . . Every time I buy one, I'm saving big on alterations fees! Awesome.


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