# Anonymous Poll: Overall, are you happy with your (financial) lot in life?



## omairp (Aug 21, 2006)

I'm curious to see what people would say, I'm guessing that most people here have above average incomes and I want to see if that translates to above average satisfaction with their finances.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I think a lot of happiness in this regard has to do with controlling your "wants" so you can get by.

I overspend by a little, but tuck away a lot into the 401K. If I left Michigan, I could make a lot more money, but I like my family and friends. I would miss everything about my home a lot.

Thus, I need to learn to live on what I make and be happy.


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## vwguy (Jul 23, 2004)

I think I have an average income so some days I wish I made more, other days I'm basically happy w/ what I make.

Brian


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## VC2000 (Feb 10, 2006)

I'd say someone's outlook on life has more to do with then the actually amount of money they make or have. I've seen people become billionaires overnight after an IPO and it isn't enough. I have also seen families in the Midwest happy with a full freezer and a harvest of canned goods that were more satisfied than the billionaires. 

I think it is really prespective and how much you compare yourself to others. Look at the current yacht wars. Ten years ago a 100 foot long boat was a big ship today that is considered small in some ports. People crank up their expectations and want more compared to the others. If you are earning say a few million a year and see the total pay package of a CEO or PE guy in the hundreds of millions you "feel" poor. In reality an annual income of 20-30K USD puts you in the top 1% of income in the world but most of us wouldn't be able to survive on that...I not throwing stones here - my jet fuel bill is easily that a month and I am sure I spent that much on clothing already this year like many others here.... 

I believe money doesn't make you happy but it does allow you to be miserable in nicer places.


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## marlinspike (Jun 4, 2007)

"Mother always said you were greedy!"
"She meant it as a compliment!"


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## StevenRocks (May 24, 2005)

Money can make you happy, but it'll never keep you happy. 

I make enough to support myself, and I'd love to make more, but only if it means my quality of life will improve.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

whenever anybody points to the troubled celebrity _du jur_ as "proof" that money can't buy happiness, I always respond with:

"Let me give it a try, I bet I could make it work"...

unfortunately, in our society, in this day and age, you can never have enough...


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

The Gabba Goul said:


> whenever anybody points to the troubled celebrity _du jur_ as "proof" that money can't buy happiness, I always respond with:
> 
> "Let me give it a try, I bet I could make it work"...
> 
> *unfortunately, in our society, in this day and age, you can never have enough...*


Sure you can. It just depends upon where your priorities are. If always having the biggest and best of everything is your goal, then yeah I agree with you, you can't ever have enough. Gekko was wrong, greed isn't good. 
If I had to list the 10 best memories I have had in life thus far, not one of them would have anything to do with money or possessions.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

" The rich are different from you and me. Yes, they have more Money." - Conversation between F. Scott and Hem, who said what subject to debate. All I know is last Friday I looked at my $1 Mega Lottery ticket with forlorn hope given the odds @ 8P.M. When I learned someone in Maryland won, I grabbed my old US issue compass, plotted for local magnetic deviation and turned to that part of the Union as close as my US map and compass would allow and rendered an obscene gesture.


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## BertieW (Jan 17, 2006)

Perfectly happy with things these days. 

In my travels I've seen people with far less seemingly making do just fine. I have nothing to complain about and am grateful for what I've earned, and for the opportunities to make that living while contributing my abilities to an organization whose cause I believe in.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

Laxplayer said:


> Sure you can. It just depends upon where your priorities are. If always having the biggest and best of everything is your goal, then yeah I agree with you, you can't ever have enough. Gekko was wrong, greed isn't good.
> If I had to list the 10 best memories I have had in life thus far, not one of them would have anything to do with money or possessions.


true...I mean, it would be pretty hard to argue with that...I too hate greed (I find it to be almost kind of disgusting)...but the way I see it...Wouldnt it be nice to know that you'd never have to worry about budgeting, or wanting stuff or whatever...I mean, just having the money to ber able to relax and not have to work or anything like that...then you'd have more time to spend with your family, and your friends and have the opportunity for more special moments...


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## Albert (Feb 15, 2006)

Laxplayer said:


> If I had to list the 10 best memories I have had in life thus far, not one of them would have anything to do with money or possessions.


Quite true.


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## Albert (Feb 15, 2006)

The Gabba Goul said:


> I mean, just having the money to ber able to relax and not have to work or anything like that...then you'd have more time to spend with your family, and your friends and have the opportunity for more special moments...


If you didn't have to work, you wouldn't be able to appreciate your time off. That's at least my experience with people who never had have to work.


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## chessplayer (Apr 26, 2007)

I would be perfectly happy with my income (around € 53k) if someone could guarantee that I can keep my job until retirement. Unfortunately, private equity is going to take over the company...


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## marlinspike (Jun 4, 2007)

Albert said:


> If you didn't have to work, you wouldn't be able to appreciate your time off. That's at least my experience with people who never had have to work.


What if you had to work hard as a young'un but managed to save up $10 million by age 30? Then you'd have experienced hard work and be able to do without it.


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## Albert (Feb 15, 2006)

marlinspike said:


> What if you had to work hard as a young'un but managed to save up $10 million by age 30? Then you'd have experienced hard work and be able to do without it.


marlinspike,

I somewhat agree with this notion. I work in a profession (investment banking) where people follow a similar agenda; they usually try to retire between 35 and 45. There are two reasons, however, why they never _fully_ retire:

a) You usually don't enter and stay in a tough profession with at least some passion. Therefore, most people in here are not really able to turn their backs on it, even if they have made sufficient money to do so.

b) Work _can_ be quite interesting. And it sometimes gets more interesting over time as you progress in the hierarchy.

I think most people who claim that they don't like to work in fact just don't want to work _under the circumstances_ of their particular profession. I have made my choice to start a doctorate very soon and then to return to my chosen career after two years or so.

Cheers,
A.


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## marlinspike (Jun 4, 2007)

Albert said:


> b) Work _can_ be quite interesting. And it sometimes gets more interesting over time as you progress in the hierarchy.


I don't doubt that, but isn't there something you'd rather be doing? Piloting a Cessna Skycatcher? Traveling the world extensively? Fly fishing? Maybe I just think this way because I'm still in school, but as much as I want to be a lawyer and the field interests me, I still think that they don't pay you to do the really great things in life, you have to pay someone else for those. Then again, when I meet someone who was at the same firm for 20+ years and worked their way up from junior associate to senior partner all at the same firm, I do swell up with a desire to do the same.


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## Albert (Feb 15, 2006)

marlinspike said:


> I don't doubt that, but isn't there something you'd rather be doing? Piloting a Cessna Skycatcher? Traveling the world extensively? Fly fishing? Maybe I just think this way because I'm still in school, but as much as I want to be a lawyer and the field interests me, I still think that they don't pay you to do the really great things in life, you have to pay someone else for those.


marlinspike,

I think the problem here is the budget constraint. According to my experience, you generally either have the time or the money to do those things but never both. I will try to enjoy a similar lifestyle (doing what I like with the monetary supply I need) for the next 18 to 24 months by pursueing a PhD, but afterwards it's back to work.

However, I think after one or two years of leisure it might get quite a bit boring really. A steady progress in work with changing positions and locations might be more interesting than 30 years of leisure, IMO.



> Then again, when I meet someone who was at the same firm for 20+ years and worked their way up from junior associate to senior partner all at the same firm, I do swell up with a desire to do the same.


I have due respect for people with such achievements but I would not want to work all the time in the same office at the same location in the same profession. I imagine that that would indeed be quite boring.

Cheers,
A.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Laxplayer said:


> If I had to list the 10 best memories I have had in life thus far, not one of them would have anything to do with money or possessions.


Same here. It's cliche but true...the little things in life like drinking a glass of wine and watching the sun set over the Pacfic, waking up in the mountains, writing a magazine article I am truly proud of, and sharing a laugh with the woman I'm madly in love with mean so much more to me than my last clothing purchase or the car I own. A good life is made of warm memories.

However, as Dean Martin said, "You can't buy happiness but you can sure pour it." :icon_smile_big:


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Establishing a list of high octane wants is a good way to be unhappy.


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

I'm happy with what I make, but I wish I had started saving for retirement early in my 20s instead of my 30s.

We should have bought a house earlier, too.

I try not to have regrets, but I do regret those two things. I would like to retire early.


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## Phinn (Apr 18, 2006)

No, I'm not happy. I'm grossly underpaid. I am out-earned by stone-cold idiots who are only successful because they are willing to commit felonies on a daily basis, lie to their clients and the courts, and generally be as devious, unethical and criminal as possible.

I do mostly commercial litigation, but my firm has made a few extra dollars by handling some large personal injury cases that are too expensive for smaller firms to prosecute. So, naturally, the partners are pressuring me and my fellow co-associates to bring in the largest contingency fee cases we can find. I never wanted to do personal injury work, but I am expected to do it anyway.

Fine. Great. But would it surprise anyone that there are already a dozen high-profile personal injury firms in every town including mine that regularly *BRIBE *police officers, EMT personnel, nurses and other first-responders for referrals? "I need to put this neck brace on you, ma'am, and by the way, here's a card of a good lawyer."

It is a felony for the lawyer to solicit the case using these people as their agents, and it is a felony for the EMT and police to do it, too. But they do it every single day. They have all sorts of creative ways of paying them, too. It's an open secret.

The last case I ever take as a lawyer will be this one: I will put an ad in the newspaper for clients -- "Did a lawyer solicit you for a personal injury case? Did you pay your lawyer a big fee? If you can answer 'yes' to both of these questions, call me."

Then, I'll file a huge class action suit against these dirt-bag law firms, suing them to VOID their fee agreements on the grounds that they were procured illegally. Their dirt-bag clients will sue them in a heartbeat. I am sure that these dirt-bag lawyers, the dirty cops, and everyone else who gets his palm greased by this disgusting system will try to put a hit out on me and my family, but if I could secure their safety, I'd have a hell of a lot of fun sticking it to them.

(Money can't buy happiness, but it makes an excellent down payment.)


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

I am in line with Albert. The time vs. money constraint. I am happy with my income, the sad thing is I must continually earn it. If the burden of earning my income were lifted, I would be happy with the cash flow. As it is, I want more cash flow so I can get a big enough nest egg to stop working.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Phinn said:


> No, I'm not happy. I'm grossly underpaid. I am out-earned by stone-cold idiots who are only successful because they are willing to commit felonies on a daily basis, lie to their clients and the courts, and generally be as devious, unethical and criminal as possible.
> 
> I do mostly commercial litigation, but my firm has made a few extra dollars by handling some large personal injury cases that are too expensive for smaller firms to prosecute. So, naturally, the partners are pressuring me and my fellow co-associates to bring in the largest contingency fee cases we can find. I never wanted to do personal injury work, but I am expected to do it anyway.
> 
> ...


You live in a fantasy world if you believe this. Do you even know any police officers, firefighters or paramedics? I can tell you first hand, that they don't give a shyte about helping out an injury lawyer. I worked as a paramedic before I went to college, and not once did I ever hear of this. Besides, those on scene have much more important things to do than pass out some attorney's business card....it's called saving lives. Accidents are a *public record*. Anyone can easily find out where and when the traffic accidents happen. Yes, there are ambulance chasing lawyers, but the idea that they are helped by first responders is completely unfounded. If you had said that these law firms were using police scanners to find out right away when an accident happens, then that I might believe. My wife an I were in a very serious accident when we were hit by a drunk driver. Not one attorney contacted us. No phone calls, letters, no business cards from the fire department, no referrals from the officer that sat with me in the hospital while my wife was in surgery...nothing. I contacted our attorney three days after the accident.

Also, I always laugh when I hear a lawyer say he is underpaid. Try telling that to the first responders. You know, the ones who often have mere seconds to make crucial decisions when trying to save someone's life, and are then sued by members of your profession when they make a mistake. I've never met an unhappy civil servant though. They may never make much money, but most are very proud of and enjoy their jobs.


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## Frank aka The Minotaur (Nov 12, 2004)

I make a good buck, but we just have too many bills.


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## Phinn (Apr 18, 2006)

> You live in a fantasy world if you believe this.


You don't live where I live, and therefore are unable to speak to my experience.



> Do you even know any police officers, firefighters or paramedics?


Yes, I do. I have spoken at length with several of them about this very topic.



> I can tell you first hand, that they don't give a shyte about helping out an injury lawyer.


Really? You have spoken to every single EMT, police officer, nurse and tow truck driver in the history of the world, and can speak to the feelings of EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM, all because of how *you* feel? That's amazing! We should immediately do away with the entire court system, with all of its complicated, messy crap like witnesses and evidence and procedure, and just have Laxplayer speak for all of them.

While I have little trouble seeing how they wouldn't care much about the lawyers, they do seem to care about their money -- free trips to Vegas (where, miracle of miracles, they don't have to pay for anything, and stacks of chips that are magically waiting for them at the casinos, which they can either cash out or use as they see fit). They also like being hired as special, private, overtime security details at firm-sponsored events. What's the going rate for cops working as private security in their off-duty hours?



> My wife an I were in a very serious accident when we were hit by a drunk driver. Not one attorney contacted us.


Well, I guess that proves that it never happens.



> Also, I always laugh when I hear a lawyer say he is underpaid. Try telling that to the first responders. You know, the ones who often have mere seconds to make crucial decisions when trying to save someone's life, and are then sued by members of your profession when they make a mistake.


I'd like to see an EMT tell _*me*_ that he has the same level of academic achievement, student loan debt, time invested in making himself the best, most skilled advocate possible in a highly competitive field where people who owe you money are reluctant to just hand it over to you, such that he therefore deserves to be paid what I am paid, meager as it is.

If this same EMT can also show me how his income is reduced due to the criminal activity of others in his line of work, then I will buy him a drink.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Phinn said:


> You don't live where I live, and therefore are unable to speak to my experience.
> 
> *Yes, I do. I have spoken at length with several of them about this very topic. *
> 
> ...


Some cheese would go nicely with your whine. 
No I haven't talked to all of them, but you haven't either. I guess it's ok for you to make broad accusations against entire professions though. But, I _have_ worked as a paramedic, and I know many cops, firefighters and paramedics. Not a single one has been given a free trip to Vegas by some law firm. Where's your proof? If it's an open secret and taking place in every city as you say, there must be some proof. There isn't any proof, Phinn. It's just utter nonsense made up by your paranoid and anti-government mind.

Lock your doors, load your guns and put on your little tin foil helmet, Phinn...the government is coming to get you.

Wayfarer, you work in the medical field. How many of these free trips do you and your staff get a year? I'm guessing none.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Sorry, not getting into this one!


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Laxplayer,

Pretty amazing that the world is against Phinn and that his rise to the top is only thwarted by corruption and dishonesty. Sad, really.

Karl


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Wayfarer said:


> Sorry, not getting into this one!


Wayfar not jump into a contentious issue????

Ok, what have you done with the real Wayfarer and what are your ransom demands?

Karl


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Wow! This got ugly fast...and we're not even onto page three of the thread.:icon_smile_wink:


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## Phinn (Apr 18, 2006)

> Where's your proof? If it's an open secret and taking place in every city as you say, there must be some proof. There isn't any proof, Phinn.


I see.

In addition to assuming the role of the Ur-witness, the all-seeing, all-knowing Laxplayer, who has the miraculous power, using nothing more than the tiny view of the world that he sees from behind his eyes, can tell us where there is (and where there is not) illicit, illegal and therefore hidden activity occurring in cities hundreds of miles away from his idyllic, corruption-free corner of St. Louis, he is _*also*_ the arbiter, the decider, the judge to whom we plebeians must proffer all of our evidence.

Self-important much?

No, I will not be offering proof to _*you*_.

But you are right about one thing. (_Mirabile dictu!_) I do not know if this sort of thing is happening in every city. I meant to say, and should have said, and can only say, that I have seen it done in each and every of the four cities in three states which I have practiced. I cannot, within the confines of logic, assert that it happens everywhere. It does strain the imagination to believe that I have witnessed each and every instance of it, such that we can safely assume that none exists elsewhere.


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## Phinn (Apr 18, 2006)

> Pretty amazing that the world is against Phinn and that his rise to the top is only thwarted by corruption and dishonesty. Sad, really.


While you are busy jumping to conclusions and, I am sure, indulging in many other forms of logical fallacy, consider that, in my experience, the attorneys who bribe and solicit their way through their careers seem to be in the minority, whereas the vast majority I have known are scrupulous about such things.

Unfortunately, this minority also has a habit of currying political favor bordering on outright patronage from the bar organization that is ostensibly responsible for enforcing these rules, and as such this tiny minority, while far from constituting "the world," wields power disproportionate to its numbers.

Does anyone else find the mere proposition so preposterous? That some lawyers routinely solicit cases? Wayfarer, I doubt that you would find this so hard to believe, or at least suspect.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Phinn, you do come across as paranoid frequently.

Perhaps if you developed some social skills, you might earn more at your law firm. 

Your bitterness, while it seems to consume you in regard to this issue, will not lead you to any place happy.

Go ahead and have at me now, if you wish.

I am more conservative than Laxplayer politically, but his behavior on this site is almost always civil. 

You are civil more often than not, but do have occasional bad moments.

The truth is probably someplace in between your two viewpoints. I don't believe all police and government employees are corrupt. I have been deliberately screwed by a cop writing a self-protective accident report once, so I know it can happen.

However, Laxplayer has never given me any reason to doubt his viewpoint that in his experience, he and the people he worked with did not handle things corruptly.


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## Phinn (Apr 18, 2006)

> Your bitterness, while it seems to consume you in regard to this issue, will not lead you to any place happy.


I agree entirely. I believe I started off with that notion.



> I am more conservative than Laxplayer politically, but his behavior on this site is almost always civil. You are civil more often than not, but do have occasional bad moments.


Does Laxplayer's reputation for civility include those instances when he has, without the slightest sense of good humor, tell people that they "live in a fantasy world"? Do you consider such a statement to be uncivil?


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## marlinspike (Jun 4, 2007)

Albert said:


> marlinspike,
> I think the problem here is the budget constraint. According to my experience, you generally either have the time or the money to do those things but never both.


Right, but that's why I was saying if someone could make $10 million by 30, they could then retire, they would have known what hard work was, and they not have the time and the money to do those grand things (it's not as expensive as one may think to travel the world and buy an acrobatic aircraft when one has $10 million earning interest). Granted, the chance of doing that is slim to none, but my point is that if you could, then you would (or should).


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## jpeirpont (Mar 16, 2004)

My current situation dictates a need for a higher income. I live in CT and its very expensive, I am also a very recent graduate so my income is that of an entry level person working as an financial analyst for a small company. A few million a year would be great even better if it allowed to remove myself of the toil of 9-5, as one who has engaged in it for most of my life I have to say, the benefits of hard work are over rated.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Given that he was provoked, I would say that he had a reason for sticking up for people he identifies with and cares about. 

It may have been uncivil, but I'd say it was borderline.

In my experience, your fuse seems to be shorter than his.

I guess I'm not perfect either, though.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I wish my toil was limited to 9 - 5, but I don't really hate my life.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> I wish my toil was limited to 9 - 5, but I don't really hate my life.


I in no way hate my life. I love my life! It is just significant portions of it are taken up by my career. My career on the other hand...


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## Geoff Gander (Apr 4, 2007)

omairp said:


> I'm curious to see what people would say, I'm guessing that most people here have above average incomes and I want to see if that translates to above average satisfaction with their finances.


I'd say I'm quite content with my income and lifestyle, given the alternative. My wife and I have poured a lot of our spare resources into paying down the mortgage faster and financing renovations - but again, that was our choice. Of course, now that we have two kids a fair chunk of our disposable incomes go to them.

Still, life is pretty good; I can afford to buy a few pairs of good shoes, and make 3-4 orders from T.M. Lewin, each year.

Geoff


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## Albert (Feb 15, 2006)

marlinspike said:


> Right, but that's why I was saying if someone could make $10 million by 30, they could then retire, they would have known what hard work was, and they not have the time and the money to do those grand things (it's not as expensive as one may think to travel the world and buy an acrobatic aircraft when one has $10 million earning interest). Granted, the chance of doing that is slim to none, but my point is that if you could, then you would (or should).


I wouldn't. I really like my job. It's essentially the same thing as coming from a wealthy family - I have quite a few colleagues who wouldn't have to work if they didn't want to without losing a bit of their lifestyle. They are in it for the challenge and the appreciation (which I think is great).

EDIT: of course my enthusiasm is somewhat muted as I am going to do a PhD. However, I also like academic work very much and it's the last chance to do it. Too many choices, I'm afraid.


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## Albert (Feb 15, 2006)

Current snapshot (after c. 42 hours):

50.0% (17): "Sometimes I wish I could make more, sometimes I think I'm OK."

35.3% (12): "I always wish I could make more money."

14.7% (5): "I'm totally satisfied with my lot as it is."

Wow. I wouldn't have thought that so many people here are strongly driven by income, but I certainly respect it. Also very good that apparently everybody here is up to speed regarding his or her current financial position. Well done.

Cheers,
A.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Phinn said:


> I see.
> 
> In addition to assuming the role of the Ur-witness, the all-seeing, all-knowing Laxplayer, who has the miraculous power, using nothing more than the tiny view of the world that he sees from behind his eyes, can tell us where there is (and where there is not) illicit, illegal and therefore hidden activity occurring in cities hundreds of miles away from his idyllic, corruption-free corner of St. Louis, he is _*also*_ the arbiter, the decider, the judge to whom we plebeians must proffer all of our evidence.
> 
> ...


You won't be offering any proof, because *there is no proof.* We all hear it all the time here on the Interchange, don't make accusations you can't back up. Well, I'm calling BS on this one. Where's your proof? I'm not talking about your personal opinion here, I'm talking about a statement that you made, and are trying to pass off as fact. A statement that you can't back up. You can make snide comments about me all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you have no proof whatsoever for this ridiculous claim. 

I said you live in a fantasy world if you believe such nonsense to be true. Here is what you said:_It is a felony for the lawyer to solicit the case using these people as their agents, and it is a felony for the EMT and police to do it, too. *But they do it every single day. They have all sorts of creative ways of paying them, too. It's an open secret. *_Sure, maybe in some rare case this may have happened, you may have even heard about someone doing this, but to imply that this happens all over the country and _every single day_ is unfair and untrue. 

Does you reputation for civility include the time when you told Leather Man he had a cartoon view of the world? How about the way in which you respond to Frank, Jack and now Karl? 

Phinn's quote:_ Highly recommended, for you and your German friends who have a cartoon view of the world:_ 

_Hitler's Beneficiaries: Plunder, Racial War, and the Nazi Welfare State_

_It describes how the massive socialist welfare state *enabled* popular support for an aggressive foreign policy. The Left and Right have a symbiotic relationship. Welfare is Step 1. Warfare is Step 2._

And yes,how wonderful to relate to you too.


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## Albert (Feb 15, 2006)

Laxplayer said:


> Highly recommended, for you and your German friends who have a cartoon view of the world


I really don't see any need for Germans-bashing here.


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Albert,

I believe Laxplayer was quoting from one of Phinn's post. So your issue is with Phinn not Laxplayer. Besides we love Germans around here, especially since Octoberfest has nearly arrived! Prost!

Karl


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Albert said:


> I really don't see any need for Germans-bashing here.


I'm not the one who wrote that. Phinn did. Besides you think I don't like Germans? I'm Lutheran and I live in St. Louis!


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## Untilted (Mar 30, 2006)

my parents give me generous pocket money. I'm fairly satisfied. More would be nice though.


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## Albert (Feb 15, 2006)

Laxplayer said:


> I'm not the one who wrote that. Phinn did. Besides you think I don't like Germans? I'm Lutheran and I live in St. Louis!


Whoops, got it. O dear. Sorry, I really didn't quite follow your controversy after the first few posts. Apologies to you Laxplayer and well done! (I'm Lutheran myself --- and actually started to getting confused! )



Karl89 said:


> Albert,
> 
> I believe Laxplayer was quoting from one of Phinn's post. So your issue is with Phinn not Laxplayer. Besides we love Germans around here, especially since Octoberfest has nearly arrived! Prost!
> 
> Karl


Quite so! Sorry for the confusion. Phinn, you are summoned to the Fatherland to forcibly binge drink seven pints of Lager to the eternal glory of Hermann der Cherusker. ic12337: (Karl, I know you would love that)

By the way, if anyone of you is off to the Oktoberfest, please feel free to drop me a PM. I might try to come along at some time as well.

Cheers,
A.


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Albert,

SPQR! You cannot make Phinn toast a barbarian! 

Karl


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## Trilby (Aug 11, 2004)

Albert said:


> I wouldn't. I really like my job. It's essentially the same thing as coming from a wealthy family - I have quite a few colleagues who wouldn't have to work if they didn't want to without losing a bit of their lifestyle. They are in it for the challenge and the appreciation (which I think is great).


But surely it makes a difference if you know that you can walk away from your job at any time. That must give a different perspective compared to the person who knows he can't pay the rent at the end of the month unless he keeps slogging away at his job.


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## Phinn (Apr 18, 2006)

My proof is the statements made to me by approximately 20-30 lawyers and non-lawyer referrers who directly participated in such briberies, spread out over 4 cities, 3 states and 12 years. Off the top of my head, all were generally proud of the fact that they had the initiative and resourcefulness to have successfully done these things, even as they acknowledged that the practice is generally prohibited.

Then, add to that the 10-15 or so clients (of mine and others) who have told me that they were solicited, some of whom went along, some of whom did not, also spread over the same time period.

Add to that the expert opinion of the bar investigator who told me that he would be glad to prosecute such a case, that it happens all the time, even though the total number of charges in my (former) county that had been brought under the criminal statute in question was precisely zero. He was retiring in less than a year, and wanted to go out with a bang. The client who was solicited in that case, however, declined to give repeat her statement to the bar investigator, since she was afraid that she'd get in trouble.

Add to that the investigator/paralegal at my current firm who tells us that he loses 10-20 clients for our firm per year because the partners at our firm prohibit him from using the techniques that his counterparts at other firms use, even though he would very much like to do so. (He has no scruples, and is concerned entirely with money, and for the life of him cannot fathom why we don't solicit clients the way the others do. It is a source of endless frustration for him, and he frequently tells us that he is on the verge of quitting because of the "handcuffs" that these rules place on his earnings.)



> Sure, maybe in some rare case this may have happened, you may have even heard about someone doing this, but to imply that this happens all over the country and every single day is unfair and _*untrue*_.


Please provide your proof for this assertion.



> Does you reputation for civility include the time when you told Leather Man he had a cartoon view of the world?


A. I don't have a reputation for civility. Please get things straight. Arguing with you is going to be a real chore if I have to argue your side as well as mine.

B. Since your quote of me on the Taxation thread is so grossly out of context and incomplete, you are either lazy or a liar. IIRC, the post about the "German friends" related to a previous post where Leatherman said something about how someone he knows in Germany believes such and such about ... something derogatory about Americans. I wasn't referring to Germans generally. I was referring to that poster's German acquaintances, which Leatherman specifically mentioned.

Ah, yes, here are the full quotes, for anyone concerned with accuracy:



> By omairp
> when I think of a Republican, I envision a guy with a shotgun sitting on his porch in a rocking chair waiting for someone from the IRS to show up.





> By Leather Man
> Exactly and that's the impression we get of modern Republicans in the UK - a load of tax hating, gun toting, war mongering loonys! Is that how Republicans want to be seen? It is not only in the UK - my German friends tell me the same view is held there.


I'd say that responding to the shotgun-on-the-porch imagery by calling it a "cartoon view of the world" was not only civil and accurate, it was positively restrained.

Is this really the best you can do to smear me? Surely I've said things that are _much_ more offensive. If not, I'm losing my touch!


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Phinn,

Have you gone to the DA or the Justice Department with your findings? If not you are morally complicit in such corruption. Righteous apathy doesn't win you much credit I am afraid.

Karl


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## Phinn (Apr 18, 2006)

Yes, as I said above, re: the bar investigator. When I had contact with a first-hand witness to a solicitation with an ongoing, solicited representation, I contacted the DA, who told me to contact the bar investigator, who, he said, would be the one to gather the evidence and present it to the DA, since he was a properly certified peace officer. The witness balked. 

The Justice Department is not concerned with such things, except, perhaps, on television.


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## Phinn (Apr 18, 2006)

One more thing about the "German friends" swipe -- my first (deceased) son's name was Heinrich, my other son's middle name is Karl, my mother's father was a German immigrant, my grandmother spoke German only for the first 6 years of her life (as was common among her neighbors and relations in Central Texas), I took 3 years of college German, and I haven't missed an Oktoberfest since I was 18 years old.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Lax, I'm sorry to expose my ignorance.

Is there a large population of German descent in St. Louis? Do they have any sort of a German festival there? 

When I was in Las Vegas last year, it was the last place I expected to see Bavarian culture. But in a German restaurant, they had really authentic food and a band imported from Germany!! I was totally swept away by the experience (although I carefully limited myself to three German beers.)

I believe I have posted about my home town, Frankenmuth.

Sorry about the hijack.


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Phinn,

At least you gave your son a good middle name........

Karl


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Phinn said:


> B. Since your quote of me on the Taxation thread is so grossly out of context and incomplete, you are either lazy or a liar. IIRC, the post about the "German friends" related to a previous post where Leatherman said something about how someone he knows in Germany believes such and such about ... something derogatory about Americans. *I wasn't referring to Germans generally. I was referring to that poster's German acquaintances, which Leatherman specifically mentioned. *


Really? Then why did you use the Ur- prefix in this instance?

_In addition to assuming the role of the Ur-witness, the all-seeing, all-knowing Laxplayer, who has the miraculous power, using nothing more than the tiny view of the world that he sees from behind his eyes, can tell us where there is (and where there is not) illicit, illegal and therefore hidden activity occurring in cities hundreds of miles away from his idyllic, corruption-free corner of St. Louis, he is *also* the arbiter, the decider, the judge to whom we plebeians must proffer all of our evidence. _

Ur- in German meaning first or primitive. Was this a veiled Nazi reference? C'mon, Phinn just say it. You think the government is full of jack-booted Nazi thugs, right? 

Everybody's in despair, every girl and boy
But when Phinn the anarchist gets here,
Everybody's gonna jump for joy.
Come all without, come all within,
You'll not see nothing like the Nutty Phinn. 

-apologies to Bob Dylan


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> Lax, I'm sorry to expose my ignorance.
> 
> Is there a large population of German descent in St. Louis? Do they have any sort of a German festival there?
> 
> ...


Yes, there is a large population of Germans in St. Louis. We have an Oktoberfest and Strassenfest, but I wouldn't say they were large celebrations, at least not compared to Mardi Gras. I've been to Frankenmuth also. I have quite a few friends that live in, or are from Michigan.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

I'm pretty happy with where I am now but I would like to work towards a full time position in the near future and make more money where I'm working now at Pathmark.It's sort of a struggle living on 8.00 an hour while your girlfriend has full time but she won't tell me how much she makes,no It's a secret.The money I'm making now is not enough to live by,I can't live on $160 a week,To me It's considered "fun money" and expenses to pay off.


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## Leather man (Mar 11, 2007)

Phinn I don't think you really believe that all Americans are Republicans do you? Read my words again - I did not say my German friends - about 200 in fact - say degrogatory things about Americans - I am sure they like Americans - why shouldn't they?

Please don't misread my quote to serve your own ends, thank you.

Anway, where on earth is this thread going?


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Leather man said:


> Phinn I don't think you really believe that all Americans are Republicans do you? Read my words again - I did not say my German friends - about 200 in fact - say degrogatory things about Americans - I am sure they like Americans - why shouldn't they?
> 
> Please don't misread my quote to serve your own ends, thank you.
> 
> Anway, where on earth is this thread going?


I thought we're discussing about how people's financial life is going?


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Read the thread, Howard.

This kind of post is why a lot of people find you to be irritating.

Obviously, you can do what you want and will do what you want. You (if you're being honest) seem puzzled by some of the reaction to you sometimes. This is a clue, I guess.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> Read the thread, Howard.
> 
> This kind of post is why a lot of people find you to be irritating.


I have not done nothing but just speak my peace,That's all.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Howard said:


> I thought we're discussing about how people's financial life is going?


We were, Howard, and I apologize for contributing to getting things off track. I found Phinn's comments to be extremely insulting, and really lost my temper. If he wants to continue to hold on to his paranoid views of the world, that is his decision. I'm done posting in this thread.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Laxplayer said:


> We were, Howard, and I apologize for contributing to getting things off track. I found Phinn's comments to be extremely insulting, and really lost my temper. If he wants to continue to hold on to his paranoid views of the world, that is his decision. I'm done posting in this thread.


No apologies necessary,Let's move on now.


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## Phinn (Apr 18, 2006)

> Ur- in German meaning first or primitive. Was this a veiled Nazi reference?


Yes. Yes it was. You're on to me.

You know who started Oktoberfest don't you?


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Howard said:


> I have not done nothing but just speak my peace,That's all.


"Peace" was well played.


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## Albert (Feb 15, 2006)

Trilby said:


> But surely it makes a difference if you know that you can walk away from your job at any time. That must give a different perspective compared to the person who knows he can't pay the rent at the end of the month unless he keeps slogging away at his job.


Trilby,

I quite agree. Our wealthier chaps are indeed quite relaxed about their jobs (sometimes even casual when it comes to the more sweaty parts ). However, this might also be a function of age: I personally feel reasonably relaxed as well. I think as soon as you have to support someone else, the whole picture turns different. And from then on, no matter how high your standard is, you want to either improve it or hold it. But that's just my opinion.

Cheers,
A.


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## 16128 (Feb 8, 2005)

Albert said:


> Trilby,
> 
> I quite agree. Our wealthier chaps are indeed quite relaxed about their jobs (sometimes even casual when it comes to the more sweaty parts ). However, this might also be a function of age: I personally feel reasonably relaxed as well. I think as soon as you have to support someone else, the whole picture turns different. And from then on, no matter how high your standard is, you want to either improve it or hold it. But that's just my opinion.
> 
> ...


Well, that's true.

I know there are worse problems in the world than being shackled to golden handcuffs, but there's a career I used to to have which I enjoyed immensely.

However, the pay was really bad, so I won't be returning to it.

(It's journalism.)


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## Concordia (Sep 30, 2004)

I think it's generally true that most people would be happy if they had twice what they do now-- either income or net worth.

It's a nasty spiral.


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## TMMKC (Aug 2, 2007)

Concordia said:


> I think it's generally true that most people would be happy if they had twice what they do now-- either income or net worth.
> 
> It's a nasty spiral.


That reminds me of an unattributed saying I once heard: "I can recall the day when I used to dream about the salary I'm starving on now."


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Maybe If I won the Lottery or Publisher's Clearing House,I'd be happy but then again,I'd still have to pay my fair share of the taxes that are supposed to be taken out that go along with your winnings.


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