# How close should belt match shoes?



## tommyd (Jan 5, 2013)

I've just recently started to try to upgrade my clothing. With the help of some people here, I've come a long way with my suit.

I've bought a couple pair khakis. Tonight, we are going out to dinner to a fairly nice place, but I'm not wearing a suit. I thought the khakis would be good. I dug out an older pair of brown wingtips and my brown belt. Thing is, the wingtips are a medium brown, whereas the belt is a darker shade. Is this a fashion faux pas? I'm not going to go buy a new belt, or shoes, in the next couple hours. Would it be better to just wear an untucked polo with no belt?

Thanks again!


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

Same color family is fine for tonight, but you may want to go get a belt that is a bit closer in the future. You dont want to be too matchy / matchy, but a medium brown belt sounds like it would be a good addition to your wardrobe going forward. 

If it is a "nice" place, you should tuck your shirt in and maybe add a sport coat / blazer. Have fun.


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## DG123 (Sep 16, 2011)

Close is fine. Wear your dark brown belt and medium brown shoes.

The "faux pas" is wearing black belt with brown shoes, or vice versa.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Can one really get too "matchy matchy" with shoes and belt? Black with black, dark brown with dark brown, tan with tan etc?


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## tommyd (Jan 5, 2013)

Yeah, I wouldn't worry if they were an exact match. I also know to definitely not wear one black/one brown. I just wasn't sure about the one dark, on medium brown.

While we are on the subject. I'm looking at my shirts. Was going to wear an OCBD black shirt, with some gold and purple stripes. Is there anything wrong with wearing a predominately black shirt with this outfit? Most of what I've read said don't wear black shoes with khakis, that's why I'm doing brown.


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## toddorbertBU (Apr 28, 2013)

tommyd said:


> Yeah, I wouldn't worry if they were an exact match. I also know to definitely not wear one black/one brown. I just wasn't sure about the one dark, on medium brown.
> 
> While we are on the subject. I'm looking at my shirts. Was going to wear an OCBD black shirt, with some gold and purple stripes. Is there anything wrong with wearing a predominately black shirt with this outfit? Most of what I've read said don't wear black shoes with khakis, that's why I'm doing brown.


I would put the outfit together first to see if it looks right to you first. If you don't think it looks right, then change the shirt. Personally, I don't think I'd wear a black shirt w/ purple and gold stripes.


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## Gurdon (Feb 7, 2005)

*One can.*



RogerP said:


> Can one really get too "matchy matchy" with shoes and belt? Black with black, dark brown with dark brown, tan with tan etc?


Yes one can. When the colors are close enough to read as the same color it looks, in my opinion, awful. Mixing black and brown, or a full (San Fernando) Valley - shiny white shoes and shiny white belt, would be somewhat worse. I think the latter is also referred to as a "full Cleveland."

Matching shoes and belt is similar to the shirt and tie combos sold in the same package. One shouldn't.

Regards,
Gurdon


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Wear a simple blue or white shirt. I assume you own a navy blazer? If so, wear it as well.


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## tommyd (Jan 5, 2013)

Jovan said:


> Wear a simple blue or white shirt. I assume you own a navy blazer? If so, wear it as well.


You assume incorrectly! LOL. I know..it's next on my list. I have a white shirt...also a lavender. I just thought these were kind of plain to wear with khakis and no jacket. Thing is, most of my other dress/sport shirts have a lot of black. I am correct in assuming not to wear black shoes with khakis? Am I also correct not to wear a predominately black shirt?
Other than these, I have a black and tan polo with little tropical trees on it.
I'm not super concerned because I know there will be people also wearing jeans at this place. I'm just trying to move my wardrobe up a notch. I know I should be better equipped...but that will come with time.

P.S. You all have about 30 minutes to reply! Haha..I love procrastination.


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## tommyd (Jan 5, 2013)

I also have a nice dark brown suede shirt. But, the sleeves are short so I'd have to roll them up.


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## KayGee (May 19, 2013)

I think same color family is fine for a relaxed evening out.


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## TheoProf (Dec 17, 2012)

Gurdon said:


> Yes one can. When the colors are close enough to read as the same color it looks, in my opinion, awful. Mixing black and brown, or a full (San Fernando) Valley - shiny white shoes and shiny white belt, would be somewhat worse. I think the latter is also referred to as a "full Cleveland."
> 
> Matching shoes and belt is similar to the shirt and tie combos sold in the same package. One shouldn't.
> 
> ...


I just don't agree. It doesn't seem to me to be a problem at all that they would be perceived as the same color. In my opinion, the rules regarding being too "matchy-matchy" don't apply to leather accessories as they would for other articles of clothing.


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## gaseousclay (Nov 8, 2009)

Gurdon said:


> Yes one can. When the colors are close enough to read as the same color it looks, in my opinion, awful. Mixing black and brown, or a full (San Fernando) Valley - shiny white shoes and shiny white belt, would be somewhat worse. I think the latter is also referred to as a "full Cleveland."
> 
> Matching shoes and belt is similar to the shirt and tie combos sold in the same package. One shouldn't.
> 
> ...


I also disagree. What's the point of color coordinating if the accessories kinda match? I'm a stickler for details and if I were wearing a burnished burgundy dress shoe I'd want my belt to look the same....not be a close match but an exact match. I just ordered a brown chromexcel belt to match my CXL indy boots and I don't think it'll look bad at all


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

gaseousclay said:


> I also disagree. What's the point of color coordinating if the accessories kinda match? I'm a stickler for details and if I were wearing a burnished burgundy dress shoe I'd want my belt to look the same....not be a close match but an exact match. I just ordered a brown chromexcel belt to match my CXL indy boots and I don't think it'll look bad at all


I think this is one of those issues where either opinion works well. If you were to buy a new belt to match your shoes with every pair of shoes you bought, then that would be alright. I, for one, will probably never do that. For the foreseeable future, I'll be wearing my burgundy belt with my dark brown shoes. I won't sweat it. I'll add a brown belt as funds allow.

Never pair black with brown. Never pair a white belt with white shoes, either. My inclination would be to aim for a closer match with a more formal rig, with more contrast an option with something more casual. That said, I saw some wonderful footage in the admittedly middling documentary _L'Amour Fou_ of YSL taking a bow after a runway show in a dark, solid suit, bengal stripe shirt, print tie, white square, dark brown shoes (I sure hope they were brown), and a tan (almost an orange -- perhaps from Hermes) belt, and it looked great. I would do that, but not as standard practice.


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## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Close. Real close.


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## Leighton (Nov 16, 2009)

gaseousclay said:


> I also disagree. What's the point of color coordinating if the accessories kinda match? I'm a stickler for details and if I were wearing a burnished burgundy dress shoe I'd want my belt to look the same....not be a close match but an exact match. I just ordered a brown chromexcel belt to match my CXL indy boots and I don't think it'll look bad at all


That's a lot of accessories to own and sort. I don't have a walk in closet the size of my current room so....

If I was as rich as a Hilton, of course I'd do that. As is, I just don't care enough. Close enough is good for me.

But going off most definitions of medium and dark brown, that would look odd to my eye.


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

Few people who sport color 8 shells have color 8 belts to match.

​Just sayin'.


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## TheoProf (Dec 17, 2012)

MaxBuck said:


> Few people who sport color 8 shells have color 8 belts to match.
> 
> Just sayin'.


Agree, but my point is that there would be nothing wrong if they wanted match their shoes to their belt. Few have 200.00 to spend on a belt.


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## DG123 (Sep 16, 2011)

If someone wears white shoes what color belt are they supposed to wear ?



Youthful Repp-robate said:


> Never pair a white belt with white shoes, either. .


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

DG123 said:


> If someone wears white shoes what color belt are they supposed to wear ?


This is why I don't wear white shoes. No, I'm serious, I don't know for sure. Also, white shoes get beat-up awfully fast.

White canvas sneakers work with any casual belt. With white bucks, then it seems to me you'd want a surcingle or needlepoint belt. The tan tabs wouldn't match the white bucks, but it's pretty well-precedented and looks fine.

If you're wearing all-white shoes that aren't bucks or canvas sneakers, then you might have some issues, in a traditional menswear context.


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

Gurdon said:


> Matching shoes and belt is similar to the shirt and tie combos sold in the same package. One shouldn't.
> 
> Regards,
> Gurdon


Agree 100%. Matching perfectly is boring, and as mentioned above - expensive and unnecessary.


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## gaseousclay (Nov 8, 2009)

mrkleen said:


> Agree 100%. Matching perfectly is boring, and as mentioned above - expensive and unnecessary.


If we were talking about matching a tie to a PS or a tie to a dress shirt I would agree, but I think it's different with a belt and shoes


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

Gurdon said:


> Yes one can. When the colors are close enough to read as the same color it looks, in my opinion, awful. Mixing black and brown, or a full (San Fernando) Valley - shiny white shoes and shiny white belt, would be somewhat worse. I think the latter is also referred to as a "full Cleveland."
> 
> Matching shoes and belt is similar to the shirt and tie combos sold in the same package. One shouldn't.
> 
> ...


I completely disagree with that.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

gaseousclay said:


> If we were talking about matching a tie to a PS or a tie to a dress shirt I would agree, but I think it's different with a belt and shoes


I completely agree with that.


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## gaseousclay (Nov 8, 2009)

Leighton said:


> That's a lot of accessories to own and sort. I don't have a walk in closet the size of my current room so....
> If I was as rich as a Hilton, of course I'd do that. As is, I just don't care enough. Close enough is good for me.
> 
> But going off most definitions of medium and dark brown, that would look odd to my eye.


I own very little in the way of accessories. My wife has essentially taken over our tiny bedroom closet and all I have is an even smaller hallway closet to store my suits, shoes, shirts and ties. Also, some companies like AFPoS have the occasional offer where they give you a matching belt with your AS shoe purchase. I just think it would look odd if you were wearing shoes that were one shade of brown and a belt that was another shade of brown


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## gaseousclay (Nov 8, 2009)

williamsonb2 said:


> I just don't agree. It doesn't seem to me to be a problem at all that they would be perceived as the same color. In my opinion, the rules regarding being too "matchy-matchy" don't apply to leather accessories as they would for other articles of clothing.


Agreed


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

I'll add my voice to those who say that precise matching is unnecessary. I find that there are really 3, maybe 4, categories of brown belts needed to accomodate any brown shade of shoes: tan, red-brown, dark brown, and (if you consider it a brown) cordovan/oxblood/no. 8. After that, it's far better to pick up belts that offer textural coordination (a dark brown suede to wear with dark brown suede shoes, for example) than trying to fill in all the little color variations. Your belt and shoes are not adjacent, and the human eye just won't notice a slight mismatch within the four families I listed above.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

CuffDaddy said:


> I'll add my voice to those who say that precise matching is unnecessary. I find that there are really 3, maybe 4, categories of brown belts needed to accomodate any brown shade of shoes: tan, red-brown, dark brown, and (if you consider it a brown) cordovan/oxblood/no. 8. After that, it's far better to pick up belts that offer textural coordination (a dark brown suede to wear with dark brown suede shoes, for example) than trying to fill in all the little color variations. Your belt and shoes are not adjacent, and the human eye just won't notice a slight mismatch within the four families I listed above.


Do you think wearing a black belt with black shoes, or a dark brown belt with dark brown shoes is "too matchy matchy"? I am not talking about having shoes and belt constructed from the same leather with the same finish by the same manufacturer - just black / black, dark brown / dark brown, tan / tan etc.


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## CuffDaddy (Feb 26, 2009)

"Do you think wearing a black belt with black shoes, or a dark brown belt with dark brown shoes is "too matchy matchy"?"

No, not at all! Shoes and belts are both part of an outfit, and therefore some coordination is expected.

Perhaps my previous post was unclear. In my view, one SHOULD generally match the shoe and belt leather. However, that matching need not be more precise that combining a red-brown shoe with a red-brown belt. The exact shade/tone of red-brown is unlikely to matter.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

^^^ Uderstood. Thanks for the reply CuffDaddy, and I agree with you.


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

gaseousclay said:


> If we were talking about matching a tie to a PS or a tie to a dress shirt I would agree, but I think it's different with a belt and shoes


I was the first reply in this thread - and my suggestion was the OP would be fine in the short term, in the same ballpark - but to maybe buy a lighter tan belt in the future. My point on matchy matchy is related to people who think they need to exactly match their shoes with their belt, their watch band, and their wallet.

IMO - if you look like you are trying too hard, you are.


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## gaseousclay (Nov 8, 2009)

mrkleen said:


> I was the first reply in this thread - and my suggestion was the OP would be fine in the short term, in the same ballpark - but to maybe buy a lighter tan belt in the future. My point on matchy matchy is related to people who think they need to exactly match their shoes with their belt, their watch band, and their wallet.
> 
> IMO - if you look like you are trying too hard, you are.


I think being in the same ballpark is acceptable, however, there are instances where this just isn't possible. Carmina comes to mind. They sell all manner of interesting makes with a wide variety of colors, such as ruby, loden green and navy. In these instances it would be far more difficult to find a belt in the same ballpark.

What about matching your belt/shoes for casual wear?


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

gaseousclay said:


> I think being in the same ballpark is acceptable, however, there are instances where this just isn't possible. Carmina comes to mind. They sell all manner of interesting makes with a wide variety of colors, such as ruby, loden green and navy. In these instances it would be far more difficult to find a belt in the same ballpark.
> 
> What about matching your belt/shoes for casual wear?


I have 4 dress belts - black / chocolate brown / burgundy / tan
I have 3 casual belts - chocolate brown / black / canvas

I have no interest in adding blue or green shoes - so I feel confident that I have it covered.


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

mrkleen said:


> I was the first reply in this thread - and my suggestion was the OP would be fine in the short term, in the same ballpark - but to maybe buy a lighter tan belt in the future. My point on matchy matchy is related to people who think they need to exactly match their shoes with their belt, their watch band, and their wallet.
> 
> IMO - if you look like you are trying too hard, you are.


I don't recall the OP or anyone else mentioning matching watch band and wallet. I asked if matching belt and shoes could be too "matchy matchy" and you replied with a very strong affirmative.



gaseousclay said:


> I think being in the same ballpark is acceptable, however, there are instances where this just isn't possible. Carmina comes to mind. They sell all manner of interesting makes with a wide variety of colors, such as ruby, loden green and navy. In these instances it would be far more difficult to find a belt in the same ballpark.
> 
> What about matching your belt/shoes for casual wear?


Good point (wearing my navy Carminas today, as a matter of fact).

I take the same approach with casual wear as I do with office attire - close, but not neccessarily exact (though I find no fault with a precise match at all).


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Hm... guess I need to find a shade of black that doesn't match my shoes exactly, lest I be thought of as too fussy. Is there a such thing as "faded black" in leather?


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

mrkleen said:


> I was the first reply in this thread - and my suggestion was the OP would be fine in the short term, in the same ballpark - but to maybe buy a lighter tan belt in the future. My point on matchy matchy is related to people who think that the accepted practice of matching shoes and belt should also extend to their watch band, wallet and other leather accessories.
> 
> IMO - if you look like you are trying too hard, you are.


Slightly modified for clarification, I think/hope. My apologies if I interpreted you incorrectly. My point is simply that matching leather belt with leather shoes is an accepted and desirable norm; it is extending this practice to other leather accessories that is definitely not required and arguably trying too hard.


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## gaseousclay (Nov 8, 2009)

mrkleen said:


> I have 4 dress belts - black / chocolate brown / burgundy / tan
> I have 3 casual belts - chocolate brown / black / canvas
> 
> I have no interest in adding blue or green shoes - so I feel confident that I have it covered.


I'm talking about those men who choose to buy dress shoes in exotic colors. They simply can't go out to their local haberdasher and expect them to carry a belt in loden green or ruby red. What about exotic leathers like python?


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## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

Jovan said:


> Hm... guess I need to find a shade of black that doesn't match my shoes exactly, lest I be thought of as too fussy. Is there a such thing as "faded black" in leather?


Exactly. It is true that one's leather shoes and leather belt need not match perfectly. But any notion that perfect matching is somehow not preferable (or even wrong) is very much mistaken. I think that mrkleen has made it clear that he never intended to suggest otherwise.


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## Youthful Repp-robate (Sep 26, 2011)

gaseousclay said:


> I'm talking about those men who choose to buy dress shoes in exotic colors. They simply can't go out to their local haberdasher and expect them to carry a belt in loden green or ruby red. What about exotic leathers like python?


They should buy pants with side adjusters.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Wasn't ribbing on him so much as others who go so far as to say that getting a matching belt and shoes at Allen Edmonds is fussy and going too far.


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## gaseousclay (Nov 8, 2009)

Jovan said:


> Wasn't ribbing on him so much as others who go so far as to say that getting a matching belt and shoes at Allen Edmonds is fussy and going too far.


My thoughts exactly. AE makes all of their belts to match their line of shoes


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## tommyd (Jan 5, 2013)

Never thought I'd touch off such a conversation!

I ended up wearing an untucked sports shirt. When I put the shoes, which I would probably say were medium brown with a hint of red, and the darker brown belt on, I thought they looked a little odd.

Worked out fine.


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## L-feld (Dec 3, 2011)

Jovan said:


> Hm... guess I need to find a shade of black that doesn't match my shoes exactly, lest I be thought of as too fussy. Is there a such thing as "faded black" in leather?


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## MaxBuck (Apr 4, 2013)

Those shoes clearly require a tan belt with a black buckle.


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## Dieu et les Dames (Jul 18, 2012)

When I eventually have the need for an arsenal of business shoes, I'd like to think that I'll shop AE and pick up matching belts as well. Outside of that and into my own world of casualness, I think that good judgement should prevail. 

Browns with browns
Surcingle with bucks 
Blacks with blacks (black casual shoes? Of course, but only at night on the town)

IMO a gator belt matches the degree of FU that a pair of bit loafers will exude.

Everything doesn't have to match perfectly. As long as you avoid mix blacks & browns, and never acquire a white belt, you should be in good sartorial standings.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Perfect!!!


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

tommyd said:


> I ended up wearing an *untucked* sports shirt.


 .


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## tommyd (Jan 5, 2013)

tommyd said:


> Never thought I'd touch off such a conversation!
> 
> I ended up wearing an untucked sports shirt. When I put the shoes, which I would probably say were medium brown with a hint of red, and the darker brown belt on, I thought they looked a little odd.
> 
> Worked out fine.





mrkleen said:


> .


Ha, I knew that was coming. It didn't have tails, and was fairly short. Still wrong by some people, I know.
The whole experience taught me is that I need to have a bigger wardrobe...including a sport jacket or blazer.


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## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

tommyd said:


> Ha, I knew that was coming. It didn't have tails, and was fairly short. Still wrong by some people, I know.
> The whole experience taught me is that I need to have a bigger wardrobe...including a sport jacket or blazer.


Just giving you a hard time man. Hope you had fun...that is all the matters.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

tommyd said:


> Ha, I knew that was coming. It didn't have tails, and was fairly short. Still wrong by some people, I know.
> The whole experience taught me is that I need to have a bigger wardrobe...including a sport jacket or blazer.


Help is here. 

www.andersonlittle.com


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## Leighton (Nov 16, 2009)

gaseousclay said:


> My thoughts exactly. AE makes all of their belts to match their line of shoes


No they don't. Notable missing colors: saddle brown, chromexcel, grey, navy, and any non-standard color (tan for example(which is clearly very close to walnut))



Jovan said:


> Wasn't ribbing on him so much as others who go so far as to say that getting a matching belt and shoes at Allen Edmonds is fussy and going too far.


Way too fussy for me, but don't really care what other people do with their money. Clearly a belt in the exact same color as shoes is ideal, but not necessary.


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## Shaver (May 2, 2012)

An exact match of shoes and belt is a very poor idea - unless you are a lady.

Or you are wearing double monks.*

.....
.
.
.
.
.
..



* one for old times sake Roger :icon_smile_wink:


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## RogerP (Oct 31, 2012)

^^^^ :cool2:


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## Earl of Ormonde (Sep 5, 2008)

The only time a belt needs to be the same colour as shoes is 
1, when the belt is visible
2, when you're wearing brown shoes

black, white,oxblood,grey or anything else do not NEED the same colour belt.


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