# What is a shooting jacket.



## silverporsche (Nov 3, 2005)

I have a jacket that is tweed with a large suede patch on the right shoulder , the pockets has buttons. There is no place for shells. Is this a shooting jacket ? 
It's a very handsome brown jacket. 

When should it be worn ?
Thanks.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

Yes, it is, though not with some of the refinements available. Bookster 's shooting jacket has all the whistles and bells available.
The shoulder patch is there to receive the recoil of a longarm.
It's a bit of an affectation to wear one when not shooting, but why not?
Wear it o casual scenarios where a standard tweed jacket would be acceptable.
If any Nimord mentions it, reply ' I shoot a sidelock hammer Purdey in 28 guage, IC and M. Then walk away quickly.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

Possible alternative definition: A jacket so ugly that it makes people want to shoot you? 

(That's not a dig at the OP's brown jacket, by the way: It actually sounds fine. I'm just being waggish.)


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## rgrossicone (Jan 27, 2008)

Kav said:


> If any Nimord mentions it, reply ' I shoot a sidelock hammer Purdey in 28 guage, IC and M. Then walk away quickly.


Brilliant! :icon_smile_big:


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## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

Kav said:


> ... I shoot a sidelock hammer Purdey in 28 guage, IC and M. Then walk away quickly...


Since Kav and I are in the Los Angeles area we don't do walk bys we only do drive bys! :icon_smile:


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## Andy (Aug 25, 2002)

The sport jacket came from the Norfolk Jacket which was originally a hunting jacket. From The Encyclopedia of Men's Clothes, Sport Jacket Chapter:
The *Norfolk jacket* changed the pattern of menswear. Tradition links it to the sportmen on the Duke of Norfolk's estate where guest included the Prince of Wales (to be King George IV). 

Whether the Duke or the Prince designed the first jacket and had his tailor craft the first one is still in dispute. The Norfolk design has a loose, comfortable fit across the shoulders and chest, matching fabric belt, box pleats (two in front, and one in the rear) providing freedom of movement, making it easier to swing and fire a gun while hunting. 

It was probably the first garment specifically designed sport use, the first sport jacket and the introduction of the idea of a non-matching jacket and trousers.​


Today the hunting jacket is more casual and functional.


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

A jacket worn so much it's now shot?

I lack the nerve to go full kit as I now only snipe hunt from my couch! But have in the past been guilty of such things on sportswear.

I like the dog.


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## StephenRG (Apr 7, 2005)

Kav said:


> If any Nimrod mentions it...


Well, given that Nimrod was a mighty hunter before the Lord, perhaps he'd already have been familiar with a shooting jacket []


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

I wouldn't know. I'm an agnostic athiest who listens to guys in robes and never read the Bible according to another poster.
I think Andy would enjoy vintage pistol shoots. It started in the Uk at Bisley, men in correct period clothing ( not that, that 'thing' in his second photo) and shoot such weaponry as artillary lugers and Webleys.
Andy strikes me as a kansas city,Colt revolver with pearl grips in .32 kind of guy.


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## I Like Dancing (Nov 13, 2007)

Hahaha I remember Denzel wore one on American Gangster....I never seen one before in my life. I took more notice to it (in the movie) because a friend said he wanted to get one....you know...just to have.


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## budrichard (Apr 3, 2008)

Andy said:


> The sport jacket came from the Norfolk Jacket which was originally a hunting jacket. From The Encyclopedia of Men's Clothes, Sport Jacket Chapter:
> The *Norfolk jacket* changed the pattern of menswear. Tradition links it to the sportmen on the Duke of Norfolk's estate where guest included the Prince of Wales (to be King George IV).
> 
> Whether the Duke or the Prince designed the first jacket and had his tailor craft the first one is still in dispute. The Norfolk design has a loose, comfortable fit across the shoulders and chest, matching fabric belt, box pleats (two in front, and one in the rear) providing freedom of movement, making it easier to swing and fire a gun while hunting.
> ...


That is not todays 'hunting jacket' but a jacket designed for clay bird target shooting.
Typical USA type hunting jacket is what you would see from say Filson 







-Dick


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## budrichard (Apr 3, 2008)

Here are some examples of shooting jackets from my collection. All are designed for actual hunting/shooting but are certainly suitable for other wear.










This my newest from Ermilio Custom Clothiers. It is a MTM bi-swing and as such does not have double side vents but I did have Bob remove the traditional patch pockets and replace with just flaps which I think has a much better sillouette. I could have had double side vents in a bespoke jacket but the price differential is high. Note the leather strap patch on the left shoulder for a bag. Bob really has the best knowledge of what a shooter needs of anyone in the USA. He also outfits the 'horsey' set.


















Here is a bespoke Oxxford shooting jacket of about two years ago that I designed with Oxxford. The fabric was just too fine in my opinion to support leather patches and I fell in love with the fabric so we made the jacket anyway in a shooting style. Anyway, bi-swing with double side vents and faux belt back. Note the pockets have no flaps to hinder shell movement into or out of the pockets.










Beretta off the rack, made in Italy, of Loden, suit of jacket, vest and breaks from the Beretta Gallery in New York. Bi-swing and cneter vent. Probabaly the best value in a shooting suit at that time but unfortuneatly not offered anymore. Great styling, tailering and fabric. Most of Beretta is now sourced Internationally.










This jacket is about 40 years old and sold by Marshall Field's by Church. Note the lack of lapels and vent, would qualify as a formal clay bird coat or a hunting coat. Unfortuneatly, too small now for me!

Some of the best actual British Formal style hunting jackets and breaks are made by Barbour for actual cold/wet weather hunting. These are not the Barbour 'oilskin' but of wool fabrics with a barrier liner. I have two and if the weather is nasty and the event formal, that's what I wear. Of course if the weather is really nasty, the Filson comes out!
Hope this all helps define what is a 'shooting jacket', hunting jacket' and 'target jacket'.-Dick


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

budrichard said:


> Here are some examples of shooting jackets from my collection. All are designed for actual hunting/shooting but are certainly suitable for other wear.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Those are some pretty nice jackets, Dick. Love the pattern matching on the Oxxford. Thanks for the photos!

I'm unfamiliar with Ermilio. Could you provide any additonal information?


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## medwards (Feb 6, 2005)

Flanderian said:


> I'm unfamiliar with Ermilio. Could you provide any additonal information?


This website should help:

https://www.ermiliocustomclothinganddesign.com/Home.html


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

medwards said:


> This website should help:
> 
> https://www.ermiliocustomclothinganddesign.com/Home.html


Much thanks!


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## jdl (Dec 13, 2008)

I have done hundreds of days (up to 40 days in season) game (wing) shooting in the UK both driven and walked up, big and small, and I can't remember ever seeing someone with a leather shoulder patch on a shooting jacket or field coat as it serves no useful purpose (although it's always there on a skeet jacket, gillet (spelling?) or long tweed shooting waistcoat (jacket length with cartridge pockets for use in hot weather).

People say it's to reduce the impact of recoil but one layer of leather (or fake leather) is not going to help, best get a gun that fits, learn to mount it correctly or get a proper recoil pad on the gun.

Another theory is that it protects the tweed from the gun - that's a non-issue, I have been wearing the same shooting jacket and field coat for longer than I care to remember and there is not a sign of wear on the shoulder of either after I have fired many tens of thousands of cartridges. 

A more cogent argument is that it helps to mount the gun more smoothly, again a non issue with a heavy tweed, but possibly an issue with a light material which could ruck up - hence the use of a patch on skeet jackets etc.

It's a long time ago, but I seem to recall the man at Norton & Son's (a leading SR bespoke outfitter for shooting) being very negative about leather on shooting clothes other than for trim - which they put just about everywhere!

Elbow patches are also a non issue for game shooting but are used on traditional Scotish stalking attire (together with a shoulder patch) where you are using a rifle often in the prone position and your elbows could be resting on anything,

They key elements of a good shooting jacket will be a good fit, resistance from the elements and thorns, shoulder pleats / full action back giving freedom of movement and bellows pockets to hold some cartridges.


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## LeverTime (Nov 8, 2008)

budrichard said:


> Here are some examples of shooting jackets from my collection. All are designed for actual hunting/shooting but are certainly suitable for other wear.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for the pictures, that's quite a wardrobe! Do you actually wear them hunting? I would be afraid of getting mud, blood, etc on them.


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## budrichard (Apr 3, 2008)

"Do you actually wear them hunting? I would be afraid of getting mud, blood, etc on them."

The above jackets are either worn at double gun shooting events here in the US or at managed game hunt preserves in the US where a helper is usually available to get and carry the birds. I don't expect to be buried in them and so I use them. If out in a marsh on a cold wet day for waterfowl, the Filson is usually worn because its warmer and is in camo! Even then, I have Filson change all the metal snaps to buttons to avoid scratching the guns.
I don't pattern myself after shooting in the UK or have any worship for thier guns so whether or not someone from the UK thinks that patches or whatever are not for a shooting garment makes no difference. I long ago determined that Brit guns and Brit hunting is different than US hunting. I have one Brit gun, a 2" 12 bore boxlock made by Tolley in 1939 for A&F. We have in the US, Connecticut Shotgun Manufacturing company https://www.connecticutshotgun.com/index.html , capable of manufacturing bespoke guns as good as any anybody and Kolar https://www.kolararms.com/ which makes target doubles, the equal of any. I do have some French Darnes https://www.fusildarne.com/ including one bespoke Bruchet/Darne but that's a topic for another Forum. They make my bespoke doubles. I also have a Forum about Model 21 Shotguns which are a passion of mine. -Dick


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

Some shooting jackets can be fitted with rather robust shoulder patches that do indeed absorb recoil from long arms. And, having shot some rather robust cartridges that would make Weatherby wince ( try a 8x60s in a featherwieght mountain rifle with checkered steel buttplate.)The leather does help keep the rifle mounted.
Firearms are a fascinating look at custom, innovation,history and often downright sillyness. 
What works, what is ethical near the California Condor sanctuary I've hunted ( no lead bullets or shot, they kill Condors who ingest far to many wounded animals) is far different from a Wisconsin flyway or a british upland hunt.
I plan to buy a Bookster hunting jacket. I will put a Peterson field guide (western US) in one bellows pocket, and a paper wrapped lunch in the other. I will wear the maroon Sam Hober tie with ducks on it.
I haven't decided on any leather yet. It is an affectation for my needs, but, for many people, an attractive one for the sheer fun of doing it.
The look certainly has less recoil than a backwards suede baseball cap.


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

Kav said:


> Some shooting jackets can be fitted with rather robust shoulder patches that do indeed absorb recoil from long arms. And, having shot some rather robust cartridges that would make Weatherby wince ( try a 8x60s in a featherwieght mountain rifle with checkered steel buttplate.)The leather does help keep the rifle mounted.
> Firearms are a fascinating look at custom, innovation,history and often downright sillyness.
> What works, what is ethical near the California Condor sanctuary I've hunted ( no lead bullets or shot, they kill Condors who ingest far to many wounded animals) is far different from a Wisconsin flyway or a british upland hunt.
> I plan to buy a Bookster hunting jacket. I will put a Peterson field guide (western US) in one bellows pocket, and a paper wrapped lunch in the other. I will wear the maroon Sam Hober tie with ducks on it.
> ...


Will your +2s be in matching tweed or a complimentary solid moleskin or cord?


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

budrichard said:


> Here are some examples of shooting jackets from my collection. All are designed for actual hunting/shooting but are certainly suitable for other wear.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I reconized Ermilio's handiwork on the left shoulder, but my understanding from him is that it is to protect the fabric from a broken gun rested on that shoulder.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

For the non shooters, a 'broken gun' is a breaktop shotgun.
The prescribed safe carry when not prepared to fire is with the breech open.I've done this also with 98 Mauser in .375 with a deep brdlly magazine. It had a curious thinning on the barrel bluing and forend finish. It took a few minutes to realise it's owner had carried it over his shoulder too.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

Literide
I intend, I hope to buy an example or two of EVERYTHING Peter offers.
And yes, I will wear my hunting ensemble afield and get it dirty.
God didn't make tweed for grocery shopping on cold weekends.
there is an annual conference of 'survival instructors' in Los Angeles.
I never understood why L.A. should hold so many.
And I am always amused at the personnaes in cammies, buckskins, hi tech petrochemical blood and goretex, dayglo red and perfectly good Hudson Bay point blankets sewn into capotes.
I will atend the next one in my tweeds, maybe sleep rough in the horsebarn hte night before to give it that tinker look.
What Sam Hober tie though?


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## Literide (Nov 11, 2004)

Kav said:


> Literide
> I intend, I hope to buy an example or two of EVERYTHING Peter offers.
> And yes, I will wear my hunting ensemble afield and get it dirty.
> God didn't make tweed for grocery shopping on cold weekends.
> ...


Kav
Please report back with photos as you acquire your Bookster gear.

<<there is an annual conference of 'survival instructors' in Los Angeles.
I never understood why L.A. should hold so many.>>

Everyone has seen Bladerunner and it hit home apparently. LaRaza propaganda could fuel it as well.
In NYC we are blissfully ignorant and insulated from our crumbling society and our hegemony over it. We even have places to buy and wear our tweeds to help delude us in to complacency.

See if Sam has a tie with a gamebird motif. Or is that too "East Coast"?

Cheers,


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

Literide,
I am two recyclable trips from a Sam Hober in maroon with gold/silver/green/red mallards on it.
Waterfowl or tapu for me, my ***** medicine man announcing the grey goose is my spirit guide.
What I WILL hunt are hunters; standing motionless in the shadows of a oaktree and waist high purple sage, my silent woolen tweeds making mockery of computer generated mossy oak cammies.
They will come crunching along, smoking cigarettes and lean over at the 3 week old deer track. At that moment, I will reach my brown, lambskin glove out and tap their shoulder, counting coup.
A distant horn will blow, Hern the Hunter and the Green Man giving approval.
Now I just need to match the pocketsquare.Dressing well should be FUN.


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## petro (Apr 5, 2005)

Kav said:


> Yes, it is, though not with some of the refinements available. Bookster 's shooting jacket has all the whistles and bells available.
> The shoulder patch is there to receive the recoil of a longarm.


Not to start a quarrel with one such as yourself, but I believe that the patch is there for much the same reason as brass plate on the butt of at least some Lee-Enfield MKIIIs--to prevent the butt from hanging up on the clothing during a fast mount of the firearm.

Alternatively it could simply be there to prevent the wear from repeated mountings, especially when shooting clays, pheasant or quail (which tend to be shot in high volume, meaning lots of putting the butt of the shotgun to the shoulder).

I have serious doubts about the recoil absorption of a single layer of leather.

Regards,
Petro.


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## petro (Apr 5, 2005)

Kav said:


> Andy strikes me as a kansas city,Colt revolver with pearl grips in .32 kind of guy.


That's rather a rude thing to say about another man.

"They're ivory. Only a pimp from a cheap New Orleans whorehouse would carry a pearl-handled pistol. "

Regards,
Petro.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

Note that I said RECEIVE and not REDUCE.
I used a 1915 Enfield Armoury made Smelly with adjustable rear sight, volley site, magazine cuttoff, barbed wire cutter and a really LONG bayonet.
I used it for my DCM qualifying match for a M1 Garand.
People with mini 14s all laughed at it, and commented on the stupid accessories.All, save the high scorer of hte day ( I was #2) a expat former Tommy with his own SMLE.
He exsplained I could stabilise the forend with shims, but they absolutely had to be from PLAYER NAVY CUT cigarette packs.He was wearing a sueded shooting jacket, so I guess it's O.K. to don this affectation, usefull or not.


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## MetrosexualRedneck (Aug 7, 2011)

I know this is an old thread, but some clarification is warranted.

A "shooting jacket" can mean many things. A quick look at the Filson and Boyt Harness lines makes this pretty clear. Accross the pond, a great example of this diverse use of the term can be found at DV Townend's listing of "mens shooting jackets" https://www.dvtownend.com/mens-jackets.asp?CSCID=67
In my opinion, the quintessential modern incarnation would be the jackets of Barbour's old "Northumberland Range" by Lord James Percy.

The best modern version (again IMHO) of the more historical English shooting jacket that Andy posted the history of would be the those made by Robert Ermilio. And speaking of Ermilio... 


budrichard said:


> Here are some examples of shooting jackets from my collection. All are designed for actual hunting/shooting but are certainly suitable for other wear.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The Ermilio's have been making bespoke clothing for some of America's most notables for decades. But let's be clear, they don't "also outfit the 'horsey' set" - riding/mounted-hunt clothing is their bread and butter. In fact, Ermilio's Clothiers is Americas oldest equestrian tailor shop. Because of this, their design aesthetic tends to be very English traditional and very riding functional - with shorter tails on jackets etc.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Put a shoulder patch (if you insist) on the jacket Matt Deckard designed for Andy and you would have another exemplary version. It's available from MyTailor.com. and I shall be ordering one, hopefully this fall, in either dark blue or maroon Casentino cloth.


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## cumberlandpeal (May 12, 2006)

I have shot driven birds and over dogs in the UK. Have never seen a leather patch on a shooting jacket.


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## Canadian (Jan 17, 2008)

My shooting vest has two blaze orange pads which I think are merely there for anti-camo purposes. I wear the vest because I can carry a pocket full of lead, one of steel and it has a pouch on the back for birds. 

I suppose leather is purely decorative, especiallly with more modern calibres. I shoot a 26-06 and the recoil is a lot less than on the SMLE I shot as a Cadet.

Tom


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

Recoil is more a question of stock design and gun handling than of the caliber itself until one gets to really big boomers. I shoot my .375 wearing a tee-shirt unless it's off the bench. My .450 Rigby, on the other hand, merits a padded shooting coat. Of course, in the field with a cape buffalo giving you a dirty look, recoil becomes irrelevant.


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## ColdIron (Jun 19, 2009)

budrichard did a great job earlier but to add to it&#8230;

In the US a shooting jacket or vest with a patch is for shooting clay targets and wingshooting. George Digweed is from England and is arguably the best sporting clay shooter in the world. The full length patch on his vest is called an international patch:









Almost all clay vests have a leather or fake leather patch to prevent the gun from catching on clothing during the gun mount. Most American games allow premount of the gun but in FITSAC a line is drawn low on the patch and the gun butt has to be started below this line when the bird is called for. Many vests do have recoil reduction but it is from putting a recoil absorbing material inside a pouch on the inside of the vest.
A hunting jacket or vest usually has a patch for the same reason, smooth gun mount. In the US if steel shot is required then you cannot have lead shot on you so I have 2 vests for pheasant in SD, one for lead and one for non-toxic. And a jacket for colder weather, all of them have patches. The exception is oiled canvass or big game coats. Last couple of years I have moved to the very functional and modern WingsWorks vest for grouse hunting which has just straps:









The shirt I wear under it has a patch to prevent snagging however.


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## MetrosexualRedneck (Aug 7, 2011)

Oldsarge said:


> Put a shoulder patch (if you insist) on the jacket Matt Deckard designed for Andy and you would have another exemplary version. It's available from MyTailor.com. and I shall be ordering one, hopefully this fall, in either dark blue or maroon Casentino cloth.


Looked on the site, couldn't find the jacket in question. Help...


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

You have to email them and ask. Extensive as their website is, it's only part of what they can offer. Tell them you are a AAAC member and that you know that Matt Deckhard designed a shooting coat for Andy and that you want one. BTW, the extensive selection of tweeds they show is also only a part of their selection. You might want to find out when Joe Hemrajani will be closest to you on one of his tours and make an appointment. Then you can ask that he bring a selection of their fabric books in whatever you think would be a suitable suiting. I'm holding out for Jodek Int'l's Casentino cloth but that book won't arrive until probably August. (Shhh . . . Casentino is a lot cheaper than tweed!)

p.s. Andy modeled the jacket for us a year or so ago. Do a search for Matt Deckhard (or Deckard, I can't spel veri gud) and you should see it. Bi-swing shoulders, bellows pockets, half belt . . . _starts to drool all over the keyboard at the thought._


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