# Should English be the official language of the USA???



## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

Keeping in line with the recent amnesty/illegal threads...here's another one...

I definately think it should, and should be a requirement for all new immigrants to speak it...


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## hopkins_student (Jun 25, 2004)

Yes. I don't think any government documents or forms should be printed in any language other than English.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

No,I think everyone should speak any language they want,It's a free country.So,It shouldn't be the official language of The USA.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

chi se ne frega una minchia?


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

iammatt said:


> chi se ne frega una minchia?


pardon my ignorance...but...cosa è minchia???

...isnt it like a kinda dirty word???


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

si. e napoletano (o forse siciliano) per cazzo.


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## JDC (Dec 2, 2006)

si.

Howard, people should and would be free to speak whatever language they want, even after we declare English to be our official language.

When it gets to the point where, in last year's elections, we're mailed voter info pamphlets in SPANISH ONLY (we never received any in English, or even bilingual versions), IMO something needs to be done.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Let the US be officially bi-lingual. I mean, it has worked so well in my home country.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

I used to go out with this goofy girl, who insisted on speaking Spanish (or rather mexican) every chance she got...needless to say...it could get very annoying, any time she had to speak to somebody who even remotely looked hispanic, she just assumed they spoke spanish (many times this would result in me laughing at her for trying to chat up an Asian or Middle Easterner in spanish and only getting blank stares in return)...she and I used to argue alot because she'd try to speak to me in spanish, and I would always respond in English...she hated that...It got to the point that I couldnt take her to any kind of hispanic restaurants, or to the grocery store, or the car wash or anywhere that she'd feel compelled to run around speaking spanish...finally one day I told her very assertively that this is America, and we speak English...I still talk to her from time to time...but only in English...


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

Yes, but the surviving languages of the first Nations ( latest PC word for ******) should be made a mandatory minimal one semester subject in school; Dine', Hopi, Comanche, Lakota,Coastal Salish, Cherokee, Mohawk, Iroquis, etc. It might, just might give pause to everyone seeking to elbow their way to the greatest social feeding trough in history that others were here first, and deserve some respect. If you want to speak Spanish or whatever fine. But expect to be paid in Pesos.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

Kav said:


> If you want to speak Spanish or whatever fine. But expect to be paid in Pesos.


I LOVE IT!!!

I'm gonna have to steal this one from you, okay Kav?


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

Onay, itway ouldshay ebay igpay atinlay.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

remit .08 cents to AAAC and it's all yours.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

...score...


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## burnedandfrozen (Mar 11, 2004)

People can speak whatever language they want. However, anyone who comes into this country to live should learn English simply because to have any kind of job that pays higher then the minimum wage is going to require English. My grandmothers family all learned English as quickly as they could when they arrived from Cuba. They spoke Spanish at home. These days with the Hispanic population growing in leaps and bounds many see no reason to learn English. There's a Latino man at my building who has worked for longer then the ten years I've been there. This man cannot speak a complete sentence in English. After more then ten years of living here I guess he just didn't think it was necessary.

Once I pulled into a minimarket in a Latino neighborhood for a snack. The young girl behind the counter was obviously Asian. The man in front of me was Latino and began speaking to her in Spanish. She informed him that she didn't speak Spanish and he told her (now in English) that she needs to learn since majority of the neighborhood spoke Spanish. She replied "This is America and we speak English here".

I've also known many Latina women who although they could speak English well enough they chose to teach their young children to speak Spanish rather then English.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

burnedandfrozen said:


> I've also known many Latina women who although they could speak English well enough they chose to teach their young children to speak Spanish rather then English.


The dingbat I mentioned above did this with her sons...it used to irritate me...but I figured I couldnt really say anything as they werent my kids...

BTW...I didnt know you were Cuban...I am too...what part of Cuba is your family from???


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

English? Yes, of course. Next question.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

It's easy to slip into racial uglyness on this one. Certainly many of our families encountered the same hurdles. But learn english and the italian girl who married a mick produced kids who were american. Of course it helped being more or less 'white' whatever that recessive genotype means. But I have friends who defy the litmus of ethnicity today. My service buddy Jo Jo from DE-troit Michigan was Jo Jo. I still have to consciously think of him as black and our third bunckmate Luke from Arizona ( a chilling double of famed flier frank Luke) married a local Chinese American girl while my black, japanese and assorted european girlfriend beat me to UCSB by several years and married into a Boston family. And California wouldn't be what it is without the rich Spanish, Californio and for that matter spanish Basque inheritance of food, language and culture. And the multiculturalism is FUN when shared. I tell fundamentalists if they want to hear real talking in tongues or see the contemporary equal to the Tower of Babel to just drive around EL A. But it's FUN only if we share it with each other. And the medium for the greatest sharing is this marvelously difficult and inconsistent language hammer welded from so many other languages and called ENGLISH. Anything else is a bad choice of friends in Tijuana, or a dozen other places nobody wants to be.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

I live in Florida and so an exposed to and enjoy other cultures - particularly the latin influences. I just think officially English should be the language standard. More than one is great, but there should be a common language for business and government entities. I am put-off to receive a ballot half in spanish all mixed in with the English. I have no problem with additional alternatives being made for other languages, but it shouldn't be the inconvenience it is for English speakers to accomodate them. There is a line between tolerance and causing myself inconvenience for no real reason. At least put it on a separate ballot people can request if they need it. Multi-lingual/multi-cultural activists should just show some common sense.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

While I agree that it makes sense on a number of fronts for english to be the official language of this nation, it is also of growing importance that we encourage the learning of second and third languages, to make it in this ever shrinking world we live in.


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## narticus (Aug 24, 2006)

Our Constitution is written in English. Our legislation is written in English. The executive department's regulations are written in English. The opinions of the judicial branch establishing precedent of interpretation of the law are in English (okay, a little Latin too). I would be surprised if the same wasn't true for almost all state law.

Ignorance of the law does not excuse. How much more so ignorance of the language of the law.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I think English needs to be the official language. If you want to live here, speak English.

Wayfarer makes a good point about Canada.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

Is there some reason that we actually *need* an official language?


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

iammatt said:


> Is there some reason that we actually *need* an official language?


Great point. I have seen no clear indication of what it would mean to have English be the official language of the country.

On the other hand, I do think that a command of written and spoken English should be a requirement of citizenship for all immigrants (as it is), and I would probably favor expedited citizenship for people who master English faster.

Every study that is done on the subject that I've seen suggests that immigrant populations learn English very quickly (first or second generation at the latest) and that immigrant parents have a very clear understanding of the importance of learning English for success here.

That said, it's hard to avoid the conclusion that the official language proposals are intended not as a practical solution to real problems, but as a way to do something nasty to immigrants.

I also think one need look only as far as Quebec, with their official French laws, to see the negative effects of linguistic intolerance.


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## Concordia (Sep 30, 2004)

What precisely does an "official language" mean? Apart from providing red meat to radio talk hosts?


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

iammatt said:


> Is there some reason that we actually *need* an official language?


Yes, there are many. Is that a sincere question?


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## jackmccullough (May 10, 2006)

ksinc said:


> Yes, there are many. Is that a sincere question?


It might be good to specify what they are, because it's possible to imagine all kinds of uses to which such a standard might be put, such as:

==>requiring English competence for new immigrants
==>requiring government communications to be conducted only in English (kind of a problem for an EMT trying to talk to a non-English speaker in an emergency, though, eh?)
==>requiring English instruction in all schools
==>prohibiting businesses from advertising or addressing customers in languages other than English
==>prohibiting employees from talking to each other in languages other than English.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

jackmccullough said:


> It might be good to specify what they are, because it's possible to imagine all kinds of uses to which such a standard might be put, such as:
> 
> ==>requiring English competence for new immigrants
> ==>requiring government communications to be conducted only in English (kind of a problem for an EMT trying to talk to a non-English speaker in an emergency, though, eh?)
> ...


I don't see pay-off except in your argumentative stance and creating a huge new legal landscape in specifying every case. Common sense should prevail and it should be used in government and business entities official business, as it mostly is today. It's a huge cost to provide multi-lingual EMT services that we shouldn't have to bear. Probably to people without insurance for the most part. I would think those that don't speak english are probably not otherwise engaged in the system.

FWIW, when I was in Russia, the Russian hospital staffs didn't speak English. I had to provide an interpreter at my expense.

In this instance, I think I'm good with A, B, C, and E, but I think D is just odd workings.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Here is something people always fail to think of. How would you like your physician, with an extremely limited grasp of English and speaking Chinese as his main language, give complex medical orders for your very critical healthcare needs to a nurse, over a cell phone, who barely speaks any English and has Tagalog as her native language? Do you think I have never had to clean up the mess from this little scenario in real life? Think again.

Yup, no idea why anyone would want a firm ability to speak English as a requirement for many professional licenses.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

jackmccullough said:


> ==>prohibiting employees from talking to each other in languages other than English.


You have a staff of workers, let us say Housekeeping. There are 30 FTEs in the department. Twenty eight speak Spanish, one speaks English, one is bi-lingual, which of course in the US means, she speaks both English and Spanish. At break time, you notice the English speaker always by herself. No one wants to work with the English speaker, as it is hard to communicate with her. She feels isolated and ostracized. You pick out nasty comments, spoken in Spanish, about the English speaker as the housekeepers gossip. Because she does not speak Spanish, she is referred to as "that ****** puta" and the concensus is she thinks she is better than everyone else because she is Anglo.

Do we see where management has allowed a hostile work environment to develop?

It quickly becomes apparent who has had to actually manage people and those that have not in a thread like this.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

Wayfarer said:


> It quickly becomes apparent who has had to actually manage people and those that have not in a thread like this.


LMAO!


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## wereed (Aug 1, 2006)

Why would we make it an official language now if we didn't when the country was first created? The need for foreign language competence is increasing daily and the US is lagging behind. If we want to stay competitive in the 21st century we will need to get over this infatuation with the English language and learn foreign languages. 

Now, that being said, let the criticisms fly in...

Walt


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

There is nothing to stop the encouragement of learning other languages if we insist that official business be conducted in English. Belgium and Canada are two good examples where two official languages harms national unity.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

wereed said:


> Why would we make it an official language now if we didn't when the country was first created? The need for foreign language competence is increasing daily and the US is lagging behind. If we want to stay competitive in the 21st century we will need to get over this infatuation with the English language and learn foreign languages.
> 
> Now, that being said, let the criticisms fly in...
> 
> Walt


One criticism and one observation.

Criticism: having English as the official language is not mutually exclusive with increasing the foreign language competency of the population. The US can certainly have both.

Observation: Competition in the 21st century. So then we need to learn Chinese, and the 23 official languages of India? This is where the real growth and competition is at this time, so Spanish is a non-starter given your stated aim, i.e. competition in the 21st century. (Toss in Japanese as it is still such a huge economy too).


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

*Hablo espanol.*

I speak Spanish pretty fluently, but I don't speak Vietnamese, Bosnian, Chinese, French, Soomaali or the great number of other languages I hear in St. Louis. I agree with wereed that Americans should be more competent in foreign language, but it would be pretty hard to learn all of these different languages.


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## jbmcb (Sep 7, 2005)

I'd like to cast my vote as follows, in line with some others:

There should be no "official" language as dictated by the federal government, however, all official and unofficial government documents, and all governmental communications that would be archived or recorded, must be in English, or, at the very least, available in English.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

ksinc said:


> Yes, there are many. Is that a sincere question?


Sigh. It is depressing to see how anti-immigrant and anti-immigration this place is. We have survived many generations with no official language. Many first generation Americans have been able to survive and their families have prospered without it. I can see english as a job requirement in some situations, but certainly not all of them. To, after all of this time, institute an official language would just further show that we are becoming xenophobes just like Europeans have been for several generations. We need immigrants to work and to, for lack of a better term, breed and to be the foundation for the next generation of Americans like out forefathers were in the past.

So yeah, it is a serious question.

Edit: To be clear I do think that all government documents should be available in English, but I don't care if they are made available in other languages as well.


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## emorel98 (Oct 9, 2005)

iammatt said:


> Sigh. It is depressing to see how anti-immigrant and anti-immigration this place is. We have survived many generations with no official language. Many first generation Americans have been able to survive and their families have prospered without it. I can see english as a job requirement in some situations, but certainly not all of them. To, after all of this time, institute an official language would just further show that we are becoming xenophobes just like Europeans have been for several generations. We need immigrants to work and to, for lack of a better term, breed and to be the foundation for the next generation of Americans like out forefathers were in the past.
> 
> So yeah, it is a serious question.
> 
> Edit: To be clear I do think that all government documents should be available in English, but I don't care if they are made available in other languages as well.


Matt, you'll be happy to know that I am breeding as much as is humanly possible.

I say we make the "official" language of this country Spanish, just for sh#ts and giggles. No wait a minute, how about Klingon?? That would rule!!!


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## tabasco (Jul 17, 2006)

*yes, english as official. And multi-language fluency for real world*

I'm a believer in one official language-English (Wayfarer's spot on). However, I really value my French courses in school, not that I'm fluent, but it's so much more fun to be aware of differences and understand them.

I'm a believer in non-English required courses for high school graduation. I think it's absolutely critical as a core curriculum, as art and music education are equally important as science and math. Stimulates the brain, etc.

M


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

*Odd...*

No one so far, that has indicated they think English requirements are wrong, has directly addressed two very particular examples I have given. Two examples that really have happened in my professional life, the first way many times under different permutations.

Why is discussion on a policy level so easy for people but discussion on an operational level ignored?


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

Wayfarer said:


> No one so far, that has indicated they think English requirements are wrong, has directly addressed two very particular examples I have given. Two examples that really have happened in my professional life, the first way many times under different permutations.
> 
> Why is discussion on a policy level so easy for people but discussion on an operational level ignored?


perhaps because they are not very good examples...

the first MIGHT be cause for having English mastery as a job requirement, and the second is a recipe for economic disaster in this country, not to mention that if it were a federal policy, as you suggest, it would constitute an egregious violation of the right to free speech.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

iammatt said:


> perhaps because they are not very good examples...


So sorry reality gets in the way of your theories. I have found it really has a habit of doing that!



iammatt said:


> the first MIGHT be cause for having English mastery as a job requirement,


LMAO! Might? MIGHT? And the first time you have a negative health outcome due to an error like this, you'll be serving my organization papers for a big fat lawsuit. I can just see you in ICU, said nurse calls in a critically high K+ value and somehow, due to language problems, and you end up with an additional 80 mEq of K+ in your IV causing cardiac problems saying, "Oh, no problem old chap, we must live with these things to honour peoples' freedom of speech don't you know?" LMAO.



iammatt said:


> and the second is a recipe for economic disaster in this country, not to mention that if it were a federal policy, as you suggest, it would constitute an egregious violation of the right to free speech.


And the described position DID violate federal policy it was determined in an arbitration hearing. I changed a couple of things in regards to positions but this happened just two years ago. A similar case happened in New York a few years ago regarding nursing staff in a hospital.

Again, just so easy to tell who is spouting policy theory out of their arses and who has to actually take care of these things in the trenches.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

iammatt said:


> Sigh. It is depressing to see how anti-immigrant and anti-immigration this place is. We have survived many generations with no official language. Many first generation Americans have been able to survive and their families have prospered without it. I can see english as a job requirement in some situations, but certainly not all of them. To, after all of this time, institute an official language would just further show that we are becoming xenophobes just like Europeans have been for several generations. We need immigrants to work and to, for lack of a better term, breed and to be the foundation for the next generation of Americans like out forefathers were in the past.
> 
> So yeah, it is a serious question.
> 
> Edit: To be clear I do think that all government documents should be available in English, but I don't care if they are made available in other languages as well.


Being pro-english and pro-immigration are not mutually exclusive.

Yes, we need immigrants, but official business and government functions should occur in English. This is neither xenophobic nor anti-immigrant. It's pro-growth.

You can however save the sighs. I'm definitely anti-sigh and sigh-phobic


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## emorel98 (Oct 9, 2005)

Wayfarer said:


> You have a staff of workers, let us say Housekeeping. There are 30 FTEs in the department. Twenty eight speak Spanish, one speaks English, one is bi-lingual, which of course in the US means, she speaks both English and Spanish. At break time, you notice the English speaker always by herself. No one wants to work with the English speaker, as it is hard to communicate with her. She feels isolated and ostracized. You pick out nasty comments, spoken in Spanish, about the English speaker as the housekeepers gossip. Because she does not speak Spanish, she is referred to as "that ****** puta" and the concensus is she thinks she is better than everyone else because she is Anglo.
> 
> Do we see where management has allowed a hostile work environment to develop?
> 
> It quickly becomes apparent who has had to actually manage people and those that have not in a thread like this.


Yes, you are correct. We all know that those damn spanish are only here to make fun of and curse at the lonely causcasian in their midst. And if it happens in one place, you know it is definitely happening everywhere around the country. Not only should English be the official language, but I say we have a person standing at the border/airports and every brown person who comes through should be painted with a coat or two of Benjamin Moore. I prefer the eggshell white but we can leave it up to the states to decide what shading of white.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Long on sarcasm, quite short on addressing a lot of legitimate issues.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> Long on sarcasm, quite short on addressing a lot of legitimate issues.


"Hai meaning yes."

https://www.elite.net/~runner/jennifers/yes.htm


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

Wayfarer said:


> So sorry reality gets in the way of your theories. I have found it really has a habit of doing that!


???



> LMAO! Might? MIGHT? And the first time you have a negative health outcome due to an error like this, you'll be serving my organization papers for a big fat lawsuit. I can just see you in ICU, said nurse calls in a critically high K+ value and somehow, due to language problems, and you end up with an additional 80 mEq of K+ in your IV causing cardiac problems saying, "Oh, no problem old chap, we must live with these things to honour peoples' freedom of speech don't you know?" LMAO.


Yeah MIGHT as in depending on where the hospital was. If you are talking Calexico it probably would not be a very useful job requirement. It is interesting how a free enterprise talkin' guy like you wants to take all sorts of hiring decisions away from companies when you feel like it. LMAO @ you.



> And the described position DID violate federal policy it was determined in an arbitration hearing. I changed a couple of things in regards to positions but this happened just two years ago. A similar case happened in New York a few years ago regarding nursing staff in a hospital.


and so...



> Again, just so easy to tell who is spouting policy theory out of their arses and who has to actually take care of these things in the trenches.


sorry to tell you, but freedom and liberty have a price. you might not like having to deal with the problems of living in a free society, but that does not mean that the rest of us don't deal with them and go on our own way. you want fascism. I don't.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

emorel98 said:


> Yes, you are correct. We all know that those damn spanish are only here to make fun of and curse at the lonely causcasian in their midst. And if it happens in one place, you know it is definitely happening everywhere around the country. Not only should English be the official language, but I say we have a person standing at the border/airports and every brown person who comes through should be painted with a coat or two of Benjamin Moore. I prefer the eggshell white but we can leave it up to the states to decide what shading of white.


It is better to keep one's mouth shut and leave others wondering if one is mentally deficient than to open it and disspell all doubts.

Please go read on the other case I mentioned, the one in New York on a hospital nursing staff. It was black, African-American if you will, staff that made the complaint (and won apparently). Further, in regards to your allusion I am bias against "brown" people, you really need to pull your cranium out of your descending colon and stop framing this in terms of race and racism. For all you know I am an immigrant myself and married to a well educated, highly paid and stunningly beautiful Asian lady. HOLY CRAP! I am and she is!

Man, that just has to damage any retort you might have.

And finally, just to edify you, "spanish" are "causcasian". Double ouch.

Next?


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

iammatt said:


> sorry to tell you, but freedom and liberty have a price. you might not like having to deal with the problems of living in a free society, but that does not mean that the rest of us don't deal with them and go on our own way. * you want fascism. I don't.*




Your whole post was positively laughable but this deserved a special mention for blatant trolling. Dismissed.


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## hopkins_student (Jun 25, 2004)

Have their been any legal cases where a discrimination suit was filed because a job required applicants to speak English? If not, anyone want to place bets on how soon that happens?


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## emorel98 (Oct 9, 2005)

Wayfarer said:


> It is better to keep one's mouth shut and leave others wondering if one is mentally deficient than to open it and disspell all doubts.
> 
> Please go read on the other case I mentioned, the one in New York on a hospital nursing staff. It was black, African-American if you will, staff that made the complaint (and won apparently). Further, in regards to your allusion I am bias against "brown" people, you really need to pull your cranium out of your descending colon and stop framing this in terms of race and racism. For all you know I am an immigrant myself and married to a well educated, highly paid and stunningly beautiful Asian lady. HOLY CRAP! I am and she is!
> 
> ...


You are so witty!! Thanks for putting me in my place.

I would like to propose that we vote in Wayfarer as the next president. Obviously, he is an intelligent, well to do patriotic American whom, by simply being here, is gracing us with an intellect and level of class unknown to internet message boards. You sir, are simply a very smart man. Or at least you play one on the internet.

Edit: Could you please dumb down cranium for me? Thanks.

Also, I call bullshit on the on the "stunningly beautiful Asain lady", unless once again, we are talking internet fantasies.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

hopkins_student said:


> Have their been any legal cases where a discrimination suit was filed because a job required applicants to speak English? If not, anyone want to place bets on how soon that happens?


Not a lawyer of course, but I know there have been, under I think Title VII of the Civil Rights Code. Results have been varied. No matter what some posters above might think, the problem of making one's self understood in English in medicine was actually addressed nearly a decade ago. In 1998 an oral profficiency portion component to the Foriegn Graduates Medical Examining Board examinations was added. It has to really suck to pontificate about things to find that not only was the issue dealt with nearly a decade ago, but that the side you are arguing against was found reasonable and standards were enacted. That, and again, bumping up against someone (fascist or not, LMAO) that actually has real world experience in the issue and does not just talk ethereal policy out of his arse.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I'm inclined to believe Wayfarer as to his wife's beauty and ethnicity.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

emorel98 said:


> You are so witty!! Thanks for putting me in my place.
> 
> I would like to propose that we vote in Wayfarer as the next president. Obviously, he is an intelligent, well to do patriotic American whom, by simply being here, is gracing us with an intellect and level of class unknown to internet message boards. You sir, are simply a very smart man. Or at least you play one on the internet.
> 
> ...


Call "bullshit" all you want, it will not vary reality in the slightest. Further, just to demonstrate your critical grasp on anything I posted, I told you I am an immigrant. Good luck making me President. LOL.


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> I'm inclined to believe Wayfarer as to his wife's beauty and ethnicity.


Thanks Forsb for the backing. If we manage to get together for lunch in September, you will have first hand reporting. Next he is going to claim I really do not wear a kilt! lol


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

I aggree with Wayfarer 100% Re: English in the medical field...I'm just a low level admin, so I still have to deal with the "unwashed masses" from time to time...and I gotta tell you...it's usually some non Spanish speaking person who couldnt speak English to save their own life, yet, the English speaking taxpayers are footing the bill for this visit, and they get huffy when you dont speak to them in Spanish...but the absolute worst is when you have to deal with other hospital employees who can barely speak English, and they get waaaaay more irritated than the spanish speaking PT's when you dont/cant engage them in their native tounge...

I speak Spanish, but I refuse to use it in order to make a non English speaker in America's life easier...why should I???in fact that's how I learned Spanish, I lived in Costa Rica for a while, and if you didnt speak the native language, you had a terrible time getting around...I'm only showing those who speak Spanish exclusively the same courtesy they'd show me if I were on their home turf...


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

I think Chinese should be the official language,everyone should speak it!


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

FrankDC said:


> si.
> 
> Howard, people should and would be free to speak whatever language they want, even after we declare English to be our official language.
> 
> When it gets to the point where, in last year's elections, we're mailed voter info pamphlets in SPANISH ONLY (we never received any in English, or even bilingual versions), IMO something needs to be done.


So What's wrong with learning it?


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

Howard said:


> So What's wrong with learning it?


this is America...if you go to almost all Spanish speaking countries, they don't make such provisions for you...


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

The Gabba Goul said:


> this is America...if you go to almost all Spanish speaking countries, they don't make such provisions for you...


I took Spanish in High School.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

As we say in Florida, Ponce de Leon would have wanted you to learn English! LOL


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

Years past I was working a summer job in manufacturing. There was probably a 60/40 mix of latino and others and spanish was the medicum for slowing production as translating was de riquer for half the shift. I'm sitting at a lunch table and this co woker sits down across from me. He was just a face I recognised halfway across the workfloor. He saw my company nametag and obviously taking inventory of subtle bodylanguage. Suddenly he starts speaking gaelic and without thinking my childhood use kicked in. Brian was a recent immigrant and we became fast friends. What I will always remember is the absolute astonishment and sometime open hostility these two 'anglos' were speaking a language they couldn't understand.


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## burnedandfrozen (Mar 11, 2004)

Hi Gabba Goul.
I have no idea where my grandmothers family were from in Cuba. She never spoke much about their time there and I'm pretty sure they came over when she was very young. I do recall she told me once whereabouts they lived. It was a coffee (or maybe sugar cane?) plantation the family owned. Lot all of the family came over so I'd guess I still have relatives there. 

One thing I do recall my grandmother telling me was that when they came to the US, they all learned English and they didn't fly the Cuban flag on their front porch. They were proud to be Americans, something our neighbors to the south don't seem to give a rats a** about.


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## burnedandfrozen (Mar 11, 2004)

Oops. meant to write "not all of the family came over" not "lot all of the family came over". Maybe I need a E.S.L course.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

burnedandfrozen said:


> Hi Gabba Goul.
> I have no idea where my grandmothers family were from in Cuba. She never spoke much about their time there and I'm pretty sure they came over when she was very young. I do recall she told me once whereabouts they lived. It was a coffee (or maybe sugar cane?) plantation the family owned. Lot all of the family came over so I'd guess I still have relatives there.
> 
> One thing I do recall my grandmother telling me was that when they came to the US, they all learned English and they didn't fly the Cuban flag on their front porch. *They were proud to be Americans*, something our neighbors to the south don't seem to give a rats a** about.


I agree. There's an Italian neighborhood here, The Hill, where you would see quite a few Italian flags on display. They even paint the fire hydrants green, white and red. Not on the 4th of July, Memorial, Veteran's Day etc. though, then it's U.S. flags all around. 
I put up the Irish tricolor in March and fly the U.S. flag the rest of the year. My neighbor displays his tricolor year round except for the "flag days".


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## Concordia (Sep 30, 2004)

I passed a truck on the highway a few days ago. Two bumper stickers:

"United We Stand" and
"Proud to be Irish"


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

burnedandfrozen said:


> Hi Gabba Goul.
> I have no idea where my grandmothers family were from in Cuba. She never spoke much about their time there and I'm pretty sure they came over when she was very young. I do recall she told me once whereabouts they lived. It was a coffee (or maybe sugar cane?) plantation the family owned. Lot all of the family came over so I'd guess I still have relatives there.
> 
> One thing I do recall my grandmother telling me was that when they came to the US, they all learned English and they didn't fly the Cuban flag on their front porch. They were proud to be Americans, something our neighbors to the south don't seem to give a rats a** about.


Yeah...I still have family in on the ISOM myself...if yours were into agriculture, it sounds like you guys were probably form the west side like my fam (we're from San Antonio de Las Vegas [a tiny town south of Havana])...

And you're 100% correct about Cubans being probably the only really patriotic hispanics...or at least the most willing to integrate into the American way of life...


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

This country will be broken up unless we do something about the language problem.

The old saying "It is not nice to whisper" still rules. And hiding the "whisper" behind another language is not right.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

WA said:


> This country will be broken up unless we do something about the language problem.
> 
> The old saying "It is not nice to whisper" still rules. And hiding the "whisper" behind another language is not right.


So what can we do about it?


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Howard said:


> So what can we do about it?


What is Pathmark's policy on English, Howard?


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Wayfarer said:


> What is Pathmark's policy on English, Howard?


They don't discriminate if that's what you're referring to.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

Howard said:


> They don't discriminate if that's what you're referring to.


they dont discriminate against who??? Spanish speakers or English speakers???


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

The Gabba Goul said:


> they dont discriminate against who??? Spanish speakers or English speakers???


Anybody of race,religion,creed or of a different language.


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

LoL...well...that's good...

I take it that you have a pretty diverse crew working over then???


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

Howard said:


> They don't discriminate if that's what you're referring to.


How would they discriminate? That is not what I was referring to.


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## jimbabwe (Jan 15, 2006)

Howard said:


> No,I think everyone should speak any language they want,It's a free country.So,It shouldn't be the official language of The USA.


Think about a classroom in 4th grade. Think about Europe vs the USA over the last 100 years. Uniformity is a good and even great thing. In a classroom, stats conclusively prove that bi-lingual is a detriment to educational achievement and advancement. Students only speaking Spanish and teamed with English speaking students = underperformance. Period.


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## burnedandfrozen (Mar 11, 2004)

It should come to no surprise that bi-lingual education puts non English speaking students at a disadvantage. I blame the parents. They are so dead set at keeping their culture in the US that they will do so at the expense of their own kids.

I don't know if it's true but I heard recently that some schools in Orange County CA tried closing down for Mexican holidays. The school board labeled these days some generic term like in-service days but they all fell on Mexican holidays for some reason. Since these schools are mostly Hispanic I guess the kids simply don't show up on these days. I shudder to think of where this country is headed.


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## Fareau (Mar 8, 2004)

I have lived in Los Angeles and I currently live in Houston. There are areas in both cities where everything is in Spanish (signs, billboards, etc) and many of the people only speak Spanish. There is a strange irony in all of this. When I lived in Europe, there was ongoing concern about how English was so prevalent and threatening to local cultures and languages, and that this was all largely due to American influence. And yet, at the same time, English was actually losing ground in some parts of the United States.....


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## 16412 (Apr 1, 2005)

I think there are few exceptions for not speaking english in America, Canada, England. English is become the world language, anyway. Commerical flying internationally it is required to speak in english. In China the people don't speak all the same, but they do write all the same. So at least they have the writting in comon. 

One language unites a country. With the below the border people coming up here and not speaking english it is dividing this country. Second and third languages are fine, but never to replace the first language. One person resently was telling me about many who want to turn Texas into Mexico and the fact that they don't have to speak english in Texas is giving them power. These people who don't care about America staying America have no right to live in America. People living in the US with no US national pride need to hunted down and booted out. Many of these outsiders would not be here if they had to speak English. The sad part is many of these outsiders were born here. And it is not to far in the future when there will be a vote in Texas- there are that many of them, so they say.


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## wereed (Aug 1, 2006)

jimbabwe said:


> Think about a classroom in 4th grade. Think about Europe vs the USA over the last 100 years. Uniformity is a good and even great thing. In a classroom, stats conclusively prove that bi-lingual is a detriment to educational achievement and advancement. Students only speaking Spanish and teamed with English speaking students = underperformance. Period.


Just wondering, how is bilingualism a bad thing? Unless I read your post wrong, that is what you are saying?

Walt


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

The Gabba Goul said:


> LoL...well...that's good...
> 
> I take it that you have a pretty diverse crew working over then???


Yes They do.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

Wayfarer said:


> How would they discriminate? That is not what I was referring to.


What were you referring to?


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Knowing more than one language is not a bad thing. However, when there is more than one official language, it can detract from a country's unity.

Canada and Belgium are excellent examples of this. The periodic dealing with separatism does little to move a country forward.


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> Knowing more than one language is not a bad thing. However, *when there is more than one official language, it can detract from a country's unity.*
> 
> Canada and Belgium are excellent examples of this. The periodic dealing with separatism does little to move a country forward.


I agree 0>1>2

Keep it how it is.


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## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I'd like to emphasize that studying and ideally knowing another language is a great thing. It is much easier to understand a culture if you know the words they use.

Also, the study of a foreign language is an excellent academic exercise. My understanding of English grammar improved a great deal when I was able to compare it to German grammar.

(It was also my favorite class.)

Knowing other languages and cultures better is a great thing.

However, a country should have one language to help unify it.


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## burnedandfrozen (Mar 11, 2004)

How ironic that it's always the politically correct loudmouths (who I'd bet are mostly white liberal lefts) who are always harping about diversity yet many cultures who put down roots in the US still segregate themselves by establishing their own neighborhoods.

I may have mentioned this before but I have a co-worker who is Thai who lived in a Hispanic neighborhood. She eventually moved (in her words to a white neighborhood) because none of the kids in the area would play with her two daughters because of the language barrier.


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## guitone (Mar 20, 2005)

I have stayed away from this thread other than voting...English is the official language of the US although we do cater to Spanish speakers by making it easier for them. Most of our parents came over as immigrants, or grandparents, they spoke various languages and managed to learn English, or at least insist that their children did. That was then....

My daughter wants to study in an international program and one of her goals in to learn Chinese, as she says, that is where the future is. So we can enjoy our English now, most other countries most people speak more than one language, in the US we do not really think we need to, shame on us, shame on me for not having a second language.


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## tabasco (Jul 17, 2006)

*I and A happens*

that being (I)ntegration, and (A)ssimilation. I live in a community mainly settled by Finns and Scandinavians; at one time (1975), my very small farm town had: 3 discrete co-operatives, all formed by Finns.
1. a telephone co-operative
2. fuel/propane & feed store co-operative
3. grocery co-operative
The largest town in the area had at least 2 Finnish language newspapers.

All gone now, including the cruel jokes about Finns.

My wife is from the German speaking "Lake Wobgegon" area of MN, where the parish priests (all German-born) until the late '30's held mass in German; farm auctions in the 70's commonly had German speaking farmers bidding, and ordering beer in the taverns.

May be that above posters expressing alarm over Hispanics/Spanish speakers may be somewhat newer to the phenomena of immigrants. Smart new-comers will want their kids & grandchildren to have a better life, be educated, develop skills... that'll only happen with english knowledge, of course. So, yes, english as official, but let's have some tolerance for our new arrivals and their unique skills.:icon_smile: .

M


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Gents,

When my father and paternal grandparents arrived in the US in 1952 only my grandfather spoke English. My father and grandmother were able, in part, to learn English by listening to Arthur Godfrey on the radio. And even to this day my grandmother is vehemently opposed to bilingual education as she didn't expect anyone to speak to her or teach her son in French when she arrived.

Another problem, particularly from immigrants from southern Mexico (both legal and illegal) is that many of them aren't fluent in Spanish and are more comfortable in one of the indigneous languages or some sort of Spanish/Indigenous patois. Many TOEFL educators have found it necessary to first make sure their charges are fluent in Spanish before they begin English instruction.

Should English be the official langiage of the US? Yes, but we should encourage the use of other languages in informal settings and we should begin foreign language instruction in kindergarten rather then waiting until (in most cases) high school.

So in short, make sure Latin immigrants are fluent in Spanish first and then bring back Arthur Godfrey (or his ghost!) on the radio.

Karl


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## JRR (Feb 11, 2006)

Karl89 said:


> And even to this day my grandmother is vehemently opposed to bilingual education as she didn't expect anyone to speak to her or teach her son in French when she arrived.


You're French?


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## iammatt (Sep 17, 2005)

guitone said:


> I have stayed away from this thread other than voting...English is the official language of the US although we do cater to Spanish speakers by making it easier for them.


No it isn't. We have no official language and never have had.



> May be that above posters expressing alarm over Hispanics/Spanish speakers may be somewhat newer to the phenomena of immigrants. Smart new-comers will want their kids & grandchildren to have a better life, be educated, develop skills... that'll only happen with english knowledge, of course. So, yes, english as official, but let's have some tolerance for our new arrivals and their unique skills.:icon_smile: .
> 
> M


well said.



burnedandfrozen said:


> How ironic that it's always the politically correct loudmouths (who I'd bet are mostly white liberal lefts) who are always harping about diversity yet many cultures who put down roots in the US still segregate themselves by establishing their own neighborhoods.


If this is referring to me, you really have no idea how far off you really are.


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

JRR,

Not that I know of. I am a quarter Swiss Romande, though there is probably some French blood somewhere down the line.

Karl


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

The continued attempt to tie an official English language to a fear or hatred of diversity is simply shoddy rhetoric designed to enflame the usual liberal knee jerk mantra of "bigot, racist, homophobe". It really grows boring and usually is no where near the truth.

Being born and raised in Canada, let me tell you about a country where the entire bulk of the country *must* be bilingual...except for one province. Does anyone care to take a stab at what province that is? Now, is Quebec a "distinct society" as they maintain? I believe it absolutely is. I believe Quebec should seperate but that is another thread.

To this thread. Does anyone *not* think the _Reconquista_ is about to set up a distinct society? Even people here that are on the other side of this debate with me have referred to "Calexico". They admit there is already what is tantamount to a "distinct society" being created. I can tell you about what happens when you get a large "distinct society" within your country's borders. Do a Google on the topic of "reconquista". Do a Google on Aztlan. Believe people when they tell you they plan to do something.


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## Howard (Dec 7, 2004)

I think everyone could learn different languages even if they don't speak it.


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## tabasco (Jul 17, 2006)

Wayfarer said:


> The continued attempt to tie an official English language to a fear or hatred of diversity is simply shoddy rhetoric designed to enflame the usual liberal knee jerk mantra of "bigot, racist, homophobe". It really grows boring and usually is no where near the truth.


Pehaps I should clarify that all my Finn neighbors, and all a' dem Krauts wus legal.

I'm all for l*egal* new-comers with "unique skills".

While I live within shouting distance of a border (Canada) , my experience with the turmoil of southern Arizona this past February was illuminatin'. Cave Creek Canyon hiking trail strewn with abandoned back packs, sleeping bags, blankets; "reward" for missing persons posted on rocks and trees, helicopters, the same model black car seen *everywhere (*DEA ?, gangs ?). Reading the newspapers about shootings, rapes, hijacks, theft....yikes.
I am sympathetic to economically motivated new-comers (except for the drug and coyote part); however, were this amount of traffic happening in our back 40, We'd be joining the posse, militia, whatever it took. We'd be armed. 
M


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## The Gabba Goul (Feb 11, 2005)

tabasco said:


> While I live within shouting distance of a border (Canada) , my experience with the turmoil of southern Arizona this past February was illuminatin'. Cave Creek Canyon hiking trail strewn with abandoned back packs, sleeping bags, blankets; "reward" for missing persons posted on rocks and trees, helicopters, the same model black car seen *everywhere (*DEA ?, gangs ?). Reading the newspapers about shootings, rapes, hijacks, theft....yikes.
> I am sympathetic to economically motivated new-comers (except for the drug and coyote part); however, were this amount of traffic happening in our back 40, We'd be joining the posse, militia, whatever it took. We'd be armed.
> M


Very true...I think if more of the country had a chance to see what goes on in So. Cal (and even Nor. Cal), Texas, Arizona etc...they'd be alot less sympathetic to the "plight of these poor refugees looking for a better life"...and just incase anybody wants to be obtuse and intentionally mis-understand me (gee that never happens here)...I'm being sarcastic when I call them "poor refugees" notice the quotation marks? I'm implying that the far left feels that these criminals should be treated as refugees and given free reign to ride rough-shod (sp?) over America and it's citizens...


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