# What is Ben Silver tryin to hide?



## andrewcorreia (Jan 21, 2009)

So, I was browsing the Ben Silver website and came across a beautiful G-9 Leather Jacket. I called the store to see if they would be able to make one for me with exact sleeve measurements. When I asked where the jacket was crafted and by what company, they flatly refused to tell me. What are they trying to hide? Could it be that the jacket really isn't made in the USA? Had they been honest with me, I would have ordered the bloody thing!


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## andrewcorreia (Jan 21, 2009)

Please pardon my spelling mistake!


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## nolan50410 (Dec 5, 2006)

The simple answer is they want you to buy it from them. You knowing where the jacket was made or by whom will allow you to find it at other stores.

Ben Silver is always significantly higher than other retailers, both large national chains and other small specialty shops.


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## Mississippi Mud (Oct 15, 2009)

Orvis uses similar tactics. Last year, I called about their version of the English country boot, and the salesperson refused to divulge the maker.


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## andrewcorreia (Jan 21, 2009)

Normally I would agree with this. However, this jacket is such a specialty item that I wouldn't be able to purchase it from another store. I only wanted to know where it was made.


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## andrewcorreia (Jan 21, 2009)

Honesty is the best policy. If the service provided is superb, I will give (whoever it may be) the business!


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## Danny (Mar 24, 2005)

andrewcorreia said:


> Normally I would agree with this. However, this jacket is such a specialty item that I wouldn't be able to purchase it from another store. I only wanted to know where it was made.


It says Made in America on the website. I'd certainly believe that to be the case.


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## andrewcorreia (Jan 21, 2009)

I called a friend of mine who is a Ben Silver aficionado. He believes the jacket is made in New Orleans, but not sure where.


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## zzdocxx (Sep 26, 2011)

I bet you "DukeGrad" could give you some good input on that.


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## sjk (Dec 1, 2007)

It has been divulged on other threads in this forum that BS gets their regimental ties, cufflinks, and blazer buttons from Benson and Clegg in London. You can order directly from the B & C website more inexpensively than from BS, so they may be a bit defensive when customers try to find out their suppliers. 

BS never fails to be provocative when it comes to their prices. But they don't look like they're going out of business any time soon.


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## Oldsarge (Feb 20, 2011)

There are always those people who will pay more for the privilege of paying more.


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## Dragoon (Apr 1, 2010)

Oldsarge said:


> There are always those people who will pay more for the privilege of paying more.


And those that see something in a store or catalog that they like and really don't care what it costs.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)




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## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Soylent Green is people.


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Danny said:


> It says Made in America on the website. I'd certainly believe that to be the case.


Not what he was asking.


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## MacTweed (Oct 30, 2011)

Dragoon said:


> And those that see something in a store or *catalog* that they like and really don't care what it costs.


Maybe that is their modus operandi. I seem to get 2 (yes--2) new BS catalogs every month, with only the cover photograph changing.


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## Brooksfan (Jan 25, 2005)

Am I missing something here? I'm not aware of any merchant selling Private Label merchandise, including Brooks Brothers, Nordstrom, or anyone else for that matter, who routinely discloses the vendor. In fact in most cases a prudent merchant would refuse to divulge that information for reasons stated by other respondents. Maybe I'm missing the point but I don't think it's unreasonable on Ben Silver's part to refuse to reveal their vendors' identities.


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## hookem12387 (Dec 29, 2009)

^^ Brooks is pretty up front about the Alden/AE/Rancourt who-makes-this-shoe question


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## rl1856 (Jun 7, 2005)

Just about everything offered by BS is available from other vendors and generally at a lower price. Part of the BS business model is to be more expensive than other stores. Best value is to be found at their warehouse sales and web site clearance sections.

They generally offer good service and the convenience of one stop shopping for an assortment of specialty goods.

By refusing to divulge who makes their goods, they are in part protecting their business model.

Best,

Ross


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## sbdivemaster (Nov 13, 2011)

Brooksfan said:


> In fact in most cases a prudent merchant would refuse to divulge that information for reasons stated by other respondents. Maybe I'm missing the point but I don't think it's unreasonable on Ben Silver's part to refuse to reveal their vendors' identities.


I have to agree, but if the question is whether the jacket is made in the USA, by law any garment sold in the USA must have labeling that discloses, among other things, where the garment is manufactured:

Textile Fiber Products Identification Act §70b(b)(4-5)


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## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

They are required to say where something is made (which evidently does not extend to online catalogues with all the vague "Imported" stuff), but what he's asking is what maker it is from. There are a such thing as trade secrets and it is their right to keep them.


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## sbdivemaster (Nov 13, 2011)

Jovan said:


> There are a such thing as trade secrets and it is their right to keep them.



As I said, I agree. However, the OP's questions were "What are they trying to hide? Could it be that the jacket really isn't made in the USA?" So. I answered.


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

Ben Silver

I am not a Ben Silver fan my friends, any more.
I see a serious decline in his business.
For the very thing that happened.
The G 9 BTW is from England.
I am almost sure.

That terrible, Ben Silver will see his business decline, because of this type of thing.

BTW, ORVIS up there my friend, has been forthright with myself.
They clearly list if something is IMPORTED.

I was looking at their Manor Hunting coat, which looks just like the Lasken coat.
They told me that it was.
Orvis, for me has been decent regarding where your goods are made.

I do not buy, if this happens to me.

I also, have found the staff at Ben Silver, to be a little stuffY!!!! In prior times.
I ceased about 12 years ago not dealing with Ben Silver for these reasons.
About the time he got Hilditch and Key shirts off.
That is one thing I bought from them .

I am not an idiot, most of you as well.
I do not recommend his own make ties/or shirts.
His ties going Drakes prices.
His own make shirts, approaching Borelli prices.
To me this is greedy.
My friends, do not buy his own make ties, or shirts as well.
He is way , way marked.
You can get Marinella for his tie price.
I am curious who is shirtmaler is.One of the older types, not a real sharpshooter IMO.

I think it is our Florida friend, blanking on his name, but does a crappy shirt IMO for OTR.
I will search the maker.

Again, sorry bout Ben Silver, place slid IMO.
I think Orvis has been forthright all my life.
Nice day


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

Ben Silver

My friend, tried myself to find out where made.
On the web site, does not say "at all" where shirts are made.
I contacted them just curious.
They say the fabric are from overseas England , Europe.
They did not say where the shirts are made.Would not give vendor name.

I saw one of the OTR shirts going for 240 bucks.
Thats a lot of money to pay for a shirt, not knowing where made.

I doubt BS is importing, but I would not pay 240 bucks for a shirt.
When I can get Borelli OTR at Shop the Finest for the same price.
Maybe he is going the mexico route now.
Again, my advice. I would look elsewhere.
His shirts are not worth the same as a Borelli OTR.
Without letting you at least know where the shirt is made.
Again, before you buy one of his ties.
Price S Ricci, Marinella.
You can get a luxury tie, for a lot less.
Again, want to clarify comment above bout me, I do not shop there at all, ever since he got rid of BRITISH shirts. Hilditch and Key.

See my forum on William Lockie sweaters. You can get the "4 ply,: for 100 dollars less than what he has on his sight.
At Westaway in England. Be aware you can do much better when you shop around.
The William Lockie at Ben Silver are 2 ply just more info if interested in sweaters.

Have nice day
As soon as I find out will get back.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

Other posts mirror my experiences with Ben Silver. 

Trip English's post reminds me of the same attitude I've seen from a few high end audio retailers. (not long before they were driven out of business)

Retailers have a right to charge whatever the market will bear, it's their right. And once word gets out it's the customer's right to watch them be run out of business,...


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## FJW (Jan 25, 2012)

127.72 MHz said:


> Retailers have a right to charge whatever the market will bear, it's their right. And once word gets out it's the customer's right to watch them be run out of business,...


And to misquote a chain of stores that went out of business late last year.

"An educated consumer is a retailer's nightmare!"


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

127.72 MHz said:


> Trip English's post reminds me of the same attitude I've seen from a few high end audio retailers.


I wonder why that is??


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

The Orvis boot!!

If made in USA and from prior experience with Orvis.
I have bought couple pair and they were really nice.
My feeling Orvis uses a good Boot company like a Danner/Wolverine/Red Wing what have you.And made in the states.ORVIS will tell you beow what you are buying BTW. If imported then elsewhere, they also say USA or wherever.
Danner makes a lot of own make boots for companies like Orvis.

Orvis, I know this a Ben Silver forum, Orivs has been good/up front, or they do not try to hid things from you.
When I am dealing with them, so far and that is why people like me stay with them.

On top of everything else, Orvis still does VT made bamboo fly rods, and very good one.
Their fishing industry is another story on top of all else.And a very big business!

Orvis here, is like Farlows in England, a fine company still IMO.

I am not an advid orvis fishing nut.
I actually collect and have enjoyed fly fishing for about 50 years so far, with Bamboo.

Again, Orvis is up front about things, a good company thus far.
It was a boot your mentioned, and I again, got a Danner FUI.

Nice day gentlemen


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

For your information, and am dating myself.
I was shopping at Orvis when it was the one place in Vermont.Manchester 
And there was one Abercrombie and Fitch ( NYC).
So stay off of Orvis!

Nice day gentlemen


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## Flanderian (Apr 30, 2008)

Oldsarge said:


> There are always those people who will pay more for the privilege of paying more.


Very well put, and entirely correct! :thumbs-up:

I've done business with Ben Silver since they sold only blazer buttons. As recently as 12 or 15 years ago they actually offered pretty fair value for their merchandise, which was of good quality and interesting. I thought at the time that it compared well with Paul Stuart, but it was about 3/4 Paul Stuart's prices. Unfortunately, one of the Penner's must have discovered this.

The socio-economic stratification of our society has changed, and retail practices have changed accordingly. Where higher quality goods once demanded a premium of perhaps 15% to 50% at full retail compared to middle-of-the-road, they can often now demand multiples of that price, and usually for little more reason than what was eloquently stated by Oldsarge.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

^^ *This is the definitive post about Ben Silver and their practices.* The Prenners put out beautiful catalogs but the claims they make about their products, the prices they charge, and most of all the curt attitude of their employees, both over the phone and in person as I found out at the King Street shop, is too much for me to take.

I've recounted the story about visiting Charleston on business a few years ago but it's worth repeating. (the short version!) At a break in the conference I walked in to Ben Silver with a long time friend, a Physician from the U.K.. 
I wore a blazer and khakis and my friend wore a tweed jacket and wool trousers.

The shop was empty of customers and after a couple minutes of browsing my friend asked if they had annual sales. One twenty something young lady abruptly replied, "We do not have sales at Ben Silver." Another twenty something year old young lady walked over and joined the other one behind the counter and they actually stared at the both of us incredulously,..... My colleague and I just looked at one another.

My friend told me he'd wait for me outside and I joined him after a couple more minutes of the two young ladies staring at me. I have never purchased another item from Ben Silver until about a month ago when I picked up a tie they had on sale that Benson and Clegg was out of stock on. (for those who are not aware many, if not all, of Ben Silver's regimental ties come from Benson and Clegg in London) As an added note you can purchase the same ties direct from Benson and Clegg and have them delivered direct to your door for about half of the $130.- Ben Silver charges.

P.S. I too began doing business with Ben Silver for only blazer buttons. (Not sure at that time if that's all they sold but it was fifteen? plus years ago)


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

What did Ben Silver know? And when did he know it?


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

^^Clever, very clever.


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## rl1856 (Jun 7, 2005)

127.72 MHz said:


> ^^ *This is the definitive post about Ben Silver and their practices.*
> The shop was empty of customers and after a couple minutes of browsing my friend asked if they had annual sales. One twenty something young lady abruptly replied, "We do not have sales at Ben Silver." Another twenty something year old young lady walked over and joined the other one behind the counter and they actually stared at the both of us incredulously,..... My colleague and I just looked at one another.


But they do have sales. 2 semiannual sales per year, in their warehouse location on East Bay Street.

A lot of ties, and a nice selection of shirts, odd jackets and trousers. Some shoes and some women's apparel.

In fact the winter sale should be coming up in a few weeks.

Best,

Ross


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

keep in mind that I made my visit five or six years ago,.... I have noticed that they now have occasional sales.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

127.72 MHz said:


> Other posts mirror my experiences with Ben Silver.
> 
> Trip English's post reminds me of the same attitude I've seen from a few high end audio retailers. (not long before they were driven out of business)
> 
> Retailers have a right to charge whatever the market will bear, it's their right. And once word gets out it's the customer's right to watch them be run out of business,...


As a high-end retailer I can tell you that the market's desire/need for expertise and guidance hasn't gone away. Just look at the terabytes of discussions on forums pertaining to every type of product or service imaginable.

The issue becomes the "amazon problem" when a customer (I use that term charitably) wants to avail themselves of all of the advantages of the brick and mortar store and then seek the actual goods elsewhere. If you're a savvy audio video shopper and can live without my services that's fine. I buy plenty of things on my own without discussing it in person with a professional, but when someone wants to come into my showroom where I pay rent, furnish demo products, and employ a staff of highly paid well educated experts and have us design a system, specify components, and take time demonstrating the various products only to leave and purchase them on eBay or some cut rate website. THAT is unforgivable.

If that fits within your definition of acceptable behavior you need to reexamine your role as a consumer. You're not savvy if you practice these sorts of tactics, you're essentially a thief.

Moreover, my business is up and so is the business of most of my competitors as people realize that they need a helping hand and are going to pay for it one way or another. My industry suffered because of the exact problem I stated above. I don't know anyone who was getting rich selling high-end audio. But a lifetime of expertise cost money and that's baked into the price. When people realized they could game the system and get all the expertise for free they did so until those guys disappeared. Now we're seeing the tide turning and the role of the consultant is getting a little more value as people come in with 3-4 year old systems that have never really worked and are gladly paying for our services to redesign or specify a new system.

In a sense this website fills the role of consultant and our community here proves that we can all use some advice on matters of our interest. How does X fit versus Y? What's the shrinkage on this shirt? Where is this or that item available?

Take away all of our most experienced posters and leave only the newbies at the beginning of their studies and that' essentially what's happened to a lot of industries as sales have moved online. Try asking someone in Best Buy how a speaker actually works and you'll see why I'm worth what I charge.


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## arkirshner (May 10, 2005)

Trip English said:


> As a high-end retailer I can tell you that the market's desire/need for expertise and guidance hasn't gone away. Just look at the terabytes of discussions on forums pertaining to every type of product or service imaginable.
> 
> The issue becomes the "amazon problem" when a customer (I use that term charitably) wants to avail themselves of all of the advantages of the brick and mortar store and then seek the actual goods elsewhere. If you're a savvy audio video shopper and can live without my services that's fine. I buy plenty of things on my own without discussing it in person with a professional, but when someone wants to come into my showroom where I pay rent, furnish demo products, and employ a staff of highly paid well educated experts and have us design a system, specify components, and take time demonstrating the various products only to leave and purchase them on eBay or some cut rate website. THAT is unforgivable.
> 
> ...


Trip,

You are so right. A few years ago I purchased a Sonos system together with speakers from a local full service dealer who designed and installed it. Money very well spent.


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## MacTweed (Oct 30, 2011)

Trip English said:


> The issue becomes the "amazon problem" when a customer (I use that term charitably) wants to avail themselves of all of the advantages of the brick and mortar store and then seek the actual goods elsewhere....but when someone wants to come into my showroom where I pay rent, furnish demo products, and employ a staff of highly paid well educated experts and have us design a system...only to leave and purchase them on eBay or some cut rate website. THAT is unforgivable.
> 
> If that fits within your definition of acceptable behavior you need to reexamine your role as a consumer. You're not savvy if you practice these sorts of tactics, you're essentially a thief.


_Note - compressed for quote._

I agree with you there, that is stealing. I typically prefer to purchase goods locally, as it supports local businesses and harnesses the seller's expert knowledge. I am rationally ignorant on somethings, as it would take too much time to research the information. Why would I? So I rely on experts to help out, and I expect to pay a bit more for that expertise. It is less expensive than buying the wrong product and having to purchase the right product again. As it has been said: Quality is remembered long after price is forgotten.

However, I agree with the negative sentiments about BS. For local clothing stores I will stick with M. Dumas, Gwynn's and a few others.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

Sonos is a dynamite system. Glad you're enjoying it!


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## Marcolina (Feb 15, 2012)

Just always careful and look for its authenticity and try to consider a lot of things first.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

Trip English said:


> As a high-end retailer I can tell you that the market's desire/need for expertise and guidance hasn't gone away. Just look at the terabytes of discussions on forums pertaining to every type of product or service imaginable.
> 
> The issue becomes the "amazon problem" when a customer (I use that term charitably) wants to avail themselves of all of the advantages of the brick and mortar store and then seek the actual goods elsewhere. If you're a savvy audio video shopper and can live without my services that's fine. I buy plenty of things on my own without discussing it in person with a professional, but when someone wants to come into my showroom where I pay rent, furnish demo products, and employ a staff of highly paid well educated experts and have us design a system, specify components, and take time demonstrating the various products only to leave and purchase them on eBay or some cut rate website. THAT is unforgivable.
> 
> ...


I agree and disagree with certain aspects of your post.

First and foremost the high end audio industry has been hit hard for many reasons the* least *of which is potential customers using brick and mortar stores to try out products and then purchase them somewhere else. So not only have I not done this, (and thus I do not need to "reexamine my role as a consumer,") but to take it a step further, I know more about high end audio, *and more importantly the snake oil* that many high end audio dealers peddle, so that I do not need their advice!*

* Best example in high end audio is $1000.-(+) power cables and interconnects. There is no scientific or engineering method known that can justify selling these kinds of things to uneducated consumers. So when the audio industry as a whole is called on the carpet they respond with condescending examples implying that if you cannot hear the difference it's because you, and your ability to hear "Quality," is unrefined. Kind of like the recent thread that someone posted from the author Calvin Trillin. His theory was that people who say they know a lot about wine have a high "A.C.I.," Assh*le Correlation Index. With some notable exceptions over many years owning vacuum tube audio gear I can say without hesitation that the same is true with many high end audio retailers. (and they have deserved to go the way of the Dodo.)

While I wouldn't trust someone at Best Buy to explain how a loudspeaker works I would be equally suspicious of many high end audio retailers.

As David Wilson wrote in response to a letter in 2005;

*Karen, you chair the High Performance Audio Subdivision Leadership Committee of the CEA. My fear is that if the industry you represent does not get serious and establish standards that clearly delineate excellence to match the promise of "High End," it will continue to decline into irrelevance. Karen, I was a little hard on you in this response, but some of your positions reflect exactly the mess this industry finds itself in today.
Yours truly,
David A. Wilson
President
Wilson Audio Specialties, Inc.
1 Olson,*

So TripEnglish, if your high end audio business is doing well and your competitors are as well I would suggest that your view is an anomaly and not representative of the industry as a whole.

Granted I have posted Mr. Wilson's response to a letter out of context but his comments saliently make my point. And I must add that the two pairs of Wilson Audio loudspeakers I own are true engineering marvels worthy of all the praise that has been laid upon them.

Lastly, perhaps the high end audio industry as a whole does have more in common with Ben Silver than meets the eye,....

Post Script, here a link to the entire PDF of Dave Wilson's comments.


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## dbgrate (Dec 4, 2006)

127.72 Mhz....the price scamming on audio cables& connectors is incredible....the pricing absurd!! Trip should watch who he calls a thief.


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## dbgrate (Dec 4, 2006)

About 75% of Orvis stuff is "imported" from sweatshops in China,India,etc. and other hellholes. Their phony American Cowboy and British Isles fantasy hangups are laughable...the ad copywriters must have a lot of chuckles....$85.00 sweatshirts,etc.. absurd overpricing on very mediocre materials and goods...one good item is the Gokey boots they carry. LL Bean has a lot of shady imports,but,at least,their pricing is realistic for what they sell.


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

I fear this thread is getting derailed. Trip is an established and respected member of the board. Ultimately the pricing policies of audio equipment are outside the parameters of this board.

Please resume questioning the attitude and intentions of Ben Silver.


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## Trip English (Dec 22, 2008)

I think we're talking about different segments of the industry. While I sell pretty high-end gear I don't dabble in the black magic of $1k/ft interconnects, line conditioning, etc. I've been a party to some pretty impressive demos and even in the few cases where I was able to detect a difference it was not nearly worth the investment or added complication to the system. 

What we do, and the segment of the industry which has done quite well, is more accessible audio distribution, high-end video, lighting control, and other home automation. 

Audiophilia is peopled by some of the wackiest people I've met. I happen to be dealing with an audiophile right now (a rarity for us) and he's pretty much demanding to be taken advantage of. He's been looking over our cabling and continues to press for more exotic solutions. Go figure. 

My points were on the practice of utilizing B&M's resources and then purchasing online in general. A local bookstore near me doesn't allow cellphones because people literally browse the store, sometimes even asking for recommendations, then photograph the covers and look them up on Amazon later. I suppose we could say that the market won't bear most bookstores, but I've seen the boomerang already where an industry (mid to high end AV) disappears and then has to crawl its way back as people realize that it's not worth their time to become hapless semi-experts and buy a lot of things that won't work versus paying a slight up-charge (or even just full MSRP) for the benefit of some expertise and advice. 

When I make a comment like the one on the first page of the thread it's because certain questions reek of the sort of behavior that I described. If you don't want to patronize a shop, that's your prerogative, but if you're going to live without their prices than you have to live without their services. That's all I was getting at.


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

Gentlemen,

I have contacted couple times to clarify their web site. Regarding their shirts. Again, no mention of made in USA nor imported.
I am curious if BS is going overseas route, and still charging more than H%K, Turnbull and Asser?
Only for Ben Silver own make shirts.
I am curious.
Again, would not pay their asking price of up to 240 bcuks for his own make, if made overseas.
I thought some one from BS is a member, maybe not.

Thats good insight. I was not buying anyway, just curious

Later


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## Sartre (Mar 25, 2008)

In general, I find all of the moral outrage over Ben Silver to be silly. Feels to me like people are looking for reasons to dislike them as a rationale for not being able to afford their prices.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

^^


Oldsarge said:


> There are always those people who will pay more for the privilege of paying more.


Perhaps it has less to do with being able to "Afford" and more to do with those who refuse to be bent over,...:idea:


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## nolan50410 (Dec 5, 2006)

While Ben Silver prices are indeed high, one could argue that there is indeed a rationality (an "expertise" as TE put it) for said prices.

I can guarantee that the overall quality of good offered by BS is superior to Brooks Brothers. You are going to see significantly less "Made in China/SE Asia" goods. Lots more Made in England, USA, Canada, Italy, etc. I'd put BS on the same level as Paul Stuart. You aren't going to find a supplier of traditional American apparel with better quality goods than Ben Silver. The price/value ratio is a different story.

It's unlikely that you will find another supplier that offers the best quality ties, shirts, suits, blazers, trousers etc. all under one roof. Perhaps that is Ben Silver's "expertise". While you could easily find similar goods at far cheaper prices, you will never find another shop where you can buy all of said goods at the same location, with loads of inventory to boot.

My 2 pennies.


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## Sartre (Mar 25, 2008)

127.72 MHz said:


> ^^
> 
> Perhaps it has less to do with being able to "Afford" and more to do with those who refuse to be bent over,...:idea:


Yes, this is what I mean by rationalizing. Convincing yourself that what you can't afford is really loathsome anyway, or that those who can and choose to afford it are witless saps being gulled by over-the-top puffery that any sensible person (such as oneself, of course) can penetrate from a mile away.


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

^^Sartre, rather than esoteric beating round the bush I'll clarify your banter. I can, and have, "Afforded" bespoke clothing at Anderson & Sheppard as well as Jasper Littman in the same price range Ben Silver charges for their suits and sport jackets.

So yes, I can afford the Row but no, I can't afford Ben Silver.

You sure got me and I feel truly insulted,....:teacha:


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## sjk (Dec 1, 2007)

nolan50410 said:


> I can guarantee that the overall quality of good offered by BS is superior to Brooks Brothers. You are going to see significantly less "Made in China/SE Asia" goods. Lots more Made in England, USA, Canada, Italy, etc. I'd put BS on the same level as Paul Stuart. You aren't going to find a supplier of traditional American apparel with better quality goods than Ben Silver. The price/value ratio is a different story.


The Paul Stuart comparison is an excellent one that I have also thought about when the topic of BS and their prices comes up. PS doesn't really get talked about in this forum as it's a bit more of a niche merchant and not as visible, unless you're spending much time in NY or Chicago.

The "aggregator" model also holds, for that matter to RL. The only difference is that RL almost inevitably has the 25-40% seasonal discount. BS's sales are usually on very "picked over" merchandise.


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## Cowtown (Aug 10, 2006)

I have patronized both Paul Stuart and Ben Silver and I agree with the comparison. The prices are certainly steep, but I have been extremely impressed with the quality of every item purchased from both stores. I cannot say the same about BB, Press, O'Connells and others. I think there are probably men in the real world (as opposed to clothing forum denizens) who realize that Paul Stuart or Ben Silver are quite expensive but like the look and know that they are getting top quality with one stop shopping. Good for both stores if they can command high prices.


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

Gentlemen

Someone got bespoke at Anderson Sheppard instead of Ben Silver own make suits! LOL
That takes the prize.
To end this on my part.

I will never pay 240 bucks for Ben Silver own make shirt.
When Borelli is cheaper, at Shop the finest. Or many others.
The same with his ties, when I can get, retail Robert Talbot and on and on.

Ben Silver needs his customers know where his stuff is made.
Again, sense he may be going the overseas route!OK, nice day my friends.
Anderson Sheppard

for suits!


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

^^ To be fair Jimmy Anderson & Sheppard might be slightly higher than Ben Silver's OTR but an 800 pound Jasper Littman will bring you right in line, almost to the dollar, for what Ben Silver charges for one of their OTR house suits,....

Question #2 from the Jasper Littman web site addresses this. https://www.jasperlittman.co.uk/faqs.html#2


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## oxford (Feb 24, 2008)

Gentlemen, no one has mentioned comparing Ben Silver prices to that of Cable Car Clothiers! I know of no retailer that marks up name brands such as Southwick any higher then Cable Car. The existence of both of these old line bastions of Tradition just proves that yes there are folks that do not mind spending more then they need for brands that can be puchased for less elsewhere. I have been a customer of both Ben Silver and Cable Car off and on for years and have found each of them a pleasure to do business with. It all just depends on the individual as to how you deal with their respective sales associates, I have had no problems. As an aside, my collection of eighteen regimental striped ties from Ben Silver have become a cherished possession and have aged gracefully with use. The Donegal Tweed Country Suit currently described on the Cable Car web site sells for about 2200 I recall, I bought that same suit from them in 1994 for 800, hows that for inflation!


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## sclemmons (Mar 4, 2006)

Ben Silver, Cable Car, Maus & Hoffmann, and your favorite local store are all editors of what is out there. As a member of this site, and an enthusiast consumer, you are a nightmare to them. I have visited all these stores and bought things and enjoyed the experience. Had I been price sensitive at the time, the visit might have been painful. I try to respect the stores that do a good job and reward their efforts. I even seek them out in Baltimore and Boston and Philadelphia. In the end, I have the power. They have the inventory. The choice is mine. I think I prefer my position, but I have to respect theirs.


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

My friend

I would not put BS and the others in with the local haberdasher.
When they carried Gitman/Sero/Creighton/Troy shirts
Alan Pain/JD McGeorge
My first Sulka shirt was 35 bucks! A different time.
Again my last point.

Look at the Russel Hodge forum here. Russell claimed to be custom/MTM.
He had outside people doing OTR. People paying 200 bcuks for posted garbage.
Not custom my friend, but an OTR shirtmaker

Again, the highest own make shirt is 220 bucks. I want to know if imported, who makes it.
Hamilton and Gitman would be fine.
But if BS is using the same OTR shirtmaker as Russell Hodge. I do not want that crap.

When I get Borelli/Turnbull Asser/Ascot change at 200 bucks, and MOP buttons.
The same with his ties. When Drakes is cheaper.
Years ago, bout 10 plus BS carried Hilditch and Key shirts and Drakes ties.
He no longer does.
So I do not want his shirts.
When I can get H&K onsale below 70 bucks for a shirt.
I think the customer should be aware.
I think we are.

PLEASE READ the bespoke shirt review Russell Hodge shirts ( 2 people here had CUSTOM that was done by a cheap OTR maker) BS and the other use a OTR shirtmaker. There are many, many out there. Be pickey. Make sure at least Hamilton/Gitman or one of the other we trust.

Please see what an OTR shirtmaker can do, it is obvious.

Nice day my dear friends


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## petro (Apr 5, 2005)

oxford said:


> Gentlemen, no one has mentioned comparing Ben Silver prices to that of Cable Car Clothiers!<snip>


To be fair, CCC is in a very expensive part of San Francisco, a city where it is considered more appropriate to wear chains and leather to dinner than a suit and tie. Besides with The Hound just down the street, BB almost across the street (from memory) and other mid-to-high end retailers close who actually have sales folks with their noses on the same floor as you, they don't get the sort of economy of scale would let them charge reasonable prices.


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## oldmanjumpers (Aug 4, 2011)

I'm not suprised Ben Silver refuse to give out suppliers names. Working for a company that uses the exact same suppliers of shoes, toiletries, ties, cufflinks, socks (and i'm sure many other areas since i last checked) there is a significant mark up by Ben Silver compared to that of our company.

For example the blue knitted labrador tie from Ben Silver is $130 (£82) whilst our comapny retailed this exact same tie for £59.

https://www.bensilver.com/Labrador-Tie-in-French-Blue,21058.html

Also you should consider that your average customer service assistant will probably assume that anyone trying to find out suppliers is from a rival company.


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

Gentlemen

Old man jumpers. That is a big price difference in ties BTW.
For own make stuff.

Also, I have never asked my friends. Did not the "Biffy and Buffy" look/appeal go out to pasture some time back. The attitude. The marketing as well.

For instance. The PJ by Derek Rose. And the black/velvet slipper.
Who wears these anymore? At that price?

Maybe Army change me. I am a flannel PJ man from Eddie Bauer or LL Bean, and I wear very warm wool socks, and acorn slippers.
In the summer, my scrubs.
I think seeing him bring out ( His Own Make) PJ and try to sell them, at the same price. Made me a bit ill.
I think their advertising, is what is gonna hurt them in the long term. I do not think appealing some of it.
Anyway, let us put this to rest my friends

Jimmy


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

It takes a long time to learn what the good stuff is, and where to get it. This goes for clothing, for audio, for just about anything. Lots of costly trial and error: education is always expensive, and it doesn't always take, anyway. An outfit such as Ben Silver, or Paul Stuart, or Trip's audio store provides that "value added," and has every right to charge a premium for that valuable service. Why should they give it out for free? Many feel that service is unnecessary, and in some cases they're right, they don't need it. But many do benefit a great deal from it, whether they know it or not. For them, the premium is worth every penny.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

O'Connells was offering a lambskin version of a G9 Jacket. As I recall it was crafted in the USA, not GB. I think they still offer it, if the OP is still looking! Perhaps O'Connells would be more forthcoming, as to their source?


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## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

They are, I often ask, and always get an answer, unless it's something that's been in the stacks so long that no one remembers.


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## Fraser Tartan (May 12, 2010)

petro said:


> To be fair, CCC is in a very expensive part of San Francisco, a city where it is considered more appropriate to wear chains and leather to dinner than a suit and tie. Besides with The Hound just down the street, BB almost across the street (from memory) and other mid-to-high end retailers close who actually have sales folks with their noses on the same floor as you, they don't get the sort of economy of scale would let them charge reasonable prices.


Good blog post today... Maxminimus pays a visit to Cable Car Clothiers:

https://maxminimus.blogspot.com/2012/02/trad-ivy-friday-san-franciscos-cable.html


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## AlanC (Oct 28, 2003)

I have it on good authority that Ben Silver makes systematic plans to maximize its own profits. 

I say engraved buttons on every blazer and a regimental around every neck!


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## smmrfld (May 22, 2007)

petro said:


> To be fair, CCC is in a very expensive part of San Francisco, a city where it is considered more appropriate to wear chains and leather to dinner than a suit and tie.


What a completely moronic comment.


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## DukeGrad (Dec 28, 2003)

Gentlemen

Thank you for the trip to Cable Car Clothiers. It looks like the Sulka, NY at least the counter with shirts in their. The clasy old men! Very nice.

We , I hope should be referring to hometown haberdashers.
Loake shoes were not in the picture back then. You had your bass/nettleton.

CCC, Tripler were a big city institution. As Sulke.I do not see Ben Silver in that league.
To me Sukla was the very best.
But my talk about the hometown haberdasher is unique.
Just a different store.

CCC never was there, it is very niceThank you


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## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

AlanC said:


> I have it on good authority that Ben Silver makes systematic plans to maximize its own profits.
> 
> I say engraved buttons on every blazer and a regimental around every neck!


I'm down with that. Regimental neck-wear and engraved buttons from the same place Ben Silver gets most, if not all, of theirs. Benson and Clegg in London. https://www.bensonandclegg.com/index.php?p=1/49/0

And we'll all get them delivered to our doorsteps at about half what Ben Silver charges.


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## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

petro said:


> To be fair, CCC is in a very expensive part of San Francisco, a city where it is considered more appropriate to wear chains and leather to dinner than a suit and tie.





smmrfld said:


> What a completely moronic comment.


So when is the Folsom St Fair this year??


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## rl1856 (Jun 7, 2005)

Marketing and exclusivity are the BS stock in trade. The proprietor understands that in certain circles raising one's prices can actually increase sales rather than causing a decline. Line items are changed out, adjusted etc based on what is available at other retailers in the area. 2 examples are Lacoste shirts and Bill's Khakis. Both were offered by BS when they were the only source in town. Once other retailers started to carry these brands, BS moved onto something else. Having an exclusive means you can set your own price and when both of the aforementioned items became available from other retailers I noted that the prices were a few dollars less than what BS charged.

If I want a Samuelsohn suit, I can go to another retailer in town. Their price for a Samuelsohn MTM is the same as BS OTR.....

I discovered Bensen & Clegg several years ago.

Best,

Ross


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