# Brown Pebble Grain Longwing / Wingtip



## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

Is my only option Florsheim Kenmoors? I really like the look of the shoe. Alden / Allen Edmonds offers nothing.

I know the Kenmoors are part of the imperial line. But it's hard for me to justify putting down that much money for something besides Alden / AE. Or is it just me?


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## Reddington (Nov 15, 2007)

Pentheos said:


> Is my only option Florsheim Kenmoors? I really like the look of the shoe. Alden / Allen Edmonds offers nothing.
> 
> I know the Kenmoors are part of the imperial line. But it's hard for me to justify putting down that much money for something besides Alden / AE. Or is it just me?


I don't know the answer to your question, but I do know that I was unable to find any Alden's or AE in a brown pebble grain long wing, so I went with the Kenmoor's. I bought them at a deep discount during Florsheim's recent sale. One other option is AE will customize their MacNeil's for you in brown pebble grain for an additional $100.

Good luck.


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## tonylumpkin (Jun 12, 2007)

Pentheos said:


> Is my only option Florsheim Kenmoors? I really like the look of the shoe. Alden / Allen Edmonds offers nothing.
> 
> I know the Kenmoors are part of the imperial line. But it's hard for me to justify putting down that much money for something besides Alden / AE. Or is it just me?


You might think about these.
https://www.bamason.com/product/Executive-Imperials-Mens-Wingtip-Brown-000525/
They are not quite up to vintage Kenmoor standards, but they are a well made shoe and the ones I've seen have had very decent leather in the uppers. At the price, they seem to be a pretty good value and are U.S. made, something that can't be said of the current Kenmoor line.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Perhaps we could persuade Tom at LeatherSoul to resurrect the Alden, alpine grain long wing in an antique tan or walnut hue! I, for one, missed out on the last offering.


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## sjq (Oct 29, 2008)

Pentheos said:


> Is my only option Florsheim Kenmoors? I really like the look of the shoe. Alden / Allen Edmonds offers nothing.
> 
> I know the Kenmoors are part of the imperial line. But it's hard for me to justify putting down that much money for something besides Alden / AE. Or is it just me?


If you don't mind spending some time searching/waiting for the right ebay item, you may be able to find a pair of NOS or almost new Old Style Kenmoors. The ones from 1998 or before are well worth the money. They were superior to AE MacNeil in quality in my opinion. Don't get hung up on "names" because AE has more prestige than Florsheim. Judge the shoe, not the label.

There have actually been quite a few pair of vintage, unworn Kenmoors on ebay lately. I have a few pair in my closet. But they are all sizes between 11 and 12. If you have that big a foot, I might have something for you. There are several pair of NOS long wings currently on Ebay. I think they are all tan though.


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## ds23pallas (Aug 22, 2006)

I know you are a long way from Canada, but the Dufferin model made by Dack's is available in brown pebble grain. With the weak Canadian dollar, it may be worth a look if you can order them on-line.



I don't have any Dack's shoes but I believe Doctor Damage recently acquired a pair. At one time they were made by Church's, now I believe Loake is the manufacturer. I look at them from time to time and they appear to be very good quality.


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## [email protected] (Jul 13, 2005)

I am a long standing fan of the Florsheim Imperial Longwing. I own a well-loved pair circa 1992-1994 that I had recrafted, and they lost about a half size in the recraft, unfortunately. Tried to have them stretched, but they're just a little too short (now feeling like about an 8EE). Still beautiful. They are the pebble. I replaced them with a pair of new black Longwing in the smooth calf. They still feel substantial, but the leather is not quite as nice. They also are taking forever to break in, with a lot of heel rubbing. Very unfortunate. The pebble grain in brown I looked at in the store recently were well-made and when they're on sale (I saw them for $175 recently in the store at 35th Street in NY), they're a good value. All of my AE are more comfortable, but I think I will probably get a pair of the brown pebble. It's a decent shoe.
[email protected]


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## Green3 (Apr 8, 2008)

tonylumpkin said:


> You might think about these.
> https://www.bamason.com/product/Executive-Imperials-Mens-Wingtip-Brown-000525/
> They are not quite up to vintage Kenmoor standards, but they are a well made shoe and the ones I've seen have had very decent leather in the uppers. At the price, they seem to be a pretty good value and are U.S. made, something that can't be said of the current Kenmoor line.


I'm thinking about a pair of these for casual wear, maybe with a "Topy" for the wet weather. Lots of width choices as well.


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## Reddington (Nov 15, 2007)

Green3 said:


> I'm thinking about a pair of these for casual wear, maybe with a "Topy" for the wet weather. Lots of width choices as well.


If you're in the Northwest, then Topy's or Vibram's are a must. I also wear Tingley's over my good shoes.

Cheers.


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## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

can someone provide a link to "topy's" google searches are fruitless.


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## Green3 (Apr 8, 2008)

Reddington said:


> If you're in the Northwest, then Topy's or Vibram's are a must. I also wear Tingley's over my good shoes.
> 
> Cheers.


I have never had a Topy. There is just something about them I don't like - I know it is nonsensical. The wet is hard on leather soles though.


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## Markus (Sep 14, 2004)

*thoughts on "Topy's" and Florsheim Imperials*

1. i completely concur regarding the high quality of the old imperials. I have two pair--one is 28 years old, the other i've had for two years (vintage pebble longwings off ebay). These are the quintessential brogan shoe and extremely clunky and cool. very comfortable.
2. if you rotate your shoes i wouldn't worry too much about the leather soles. i am from the NW and have worn many a leather sole in the rain. would i prefer to keep them dry? Yes. is that always possible? no. However, consider treating them with a liquid silicon, like is used on hiking boots. it is a good treatment to seal against water.
3. when shopping for kenmoors, consider the price of the alternative and bid accordingly. i payed something like $65 for my vintage longwings, but they were only lightly worn and at that price they cost much less than getting a pair of shoes re-soled.


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## ChicagoTrad (Feb 19, 2007)

Markus said:


> 1. i completely concur regarding the high quality of the old imperials. I have two pair--one is 28 years old, the other i've had for two years (vintage pebble longwings off ebay). These are the quintessential brogan shoe and extremely clunky and cool. very comfortable.
> 2. if you rotate your shoes i wouldn't worry too much about the leather soles. i am from the NW and have worn many a leather sole in the rain. would i prefer to keep them dry? Yes. is that always possible? no. However, consider treating them with a liquid silicon, like is used on hiking boots. it is a good treatment to seal against water.
> 3. when shopping for kenmoors, consider the price of the alternative and bid accordingly. i payed something like $65 for my vintage longwings, but they were only lightly worn and at that price they cost much less than getting a pair of shoes re-soled.


Agree with everyone's opinion of the old Imperials. Wonderful, comfortable, well-made shoes.

I do put Topy's on some of my shoes. I have a pair of Kenmoors that I've tramped all over Europe with that had Topy's and have held up extremely well.

Also, it is also possible to find the McNeil's on ebay as well. I have a brown and a black pair with pebble grain that I got from the same seller a while back. They are nice, but I like the fit and shape of the Kenmoors a bit more.


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## windsor (Dec 12, 2006)

I have a pair of brown pebble grain Florshiems...mine have Florshiem Royal Imperial written on the sole. I could not find a country of manufacture on the shoe, unlike some of my older Imperials. The heel has a rubber insert across the back quarter. I really like them although they may not have been made in the USA, and therefore not quite up to the quality standards of the older ones made here.


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## memphisvol (Mar 26, 2007)

I have a pair of johnston and murphy aristocraft pebble grain long wings that I love, but I am sure they are also a rare ebay type find.


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## TDI GUY (Oct 26, 2008)

*Brown Longing Disappointment + Recommendation Request*



tonylumpkin said:


> You might think about these.
> https://www.bamason.com/product/Executive-Imperials-Mens-Wingtip-Brown-000525/
> They are not quite up to vintage Kenmoor standards, but they are a well made shoe and the ones I've seen have had very decent leather in the uppers. At the price, they seem to be a pretty good value and are U.S. made, something that can't be said of the current Kenmoor line.


On the advice of this thread, I took a chance on the B.A. Mason Executive Imperial Longwings in brown. As the OP of this thread notes, there aren't that many options for brown longwings (particularly at a lower price point), and so I thought these might, at the very least, be a functional shoe that could carry me until I could upgrade to something better.

I was extremely disappointed with what I received. The quality of these shoes must have declined dramatically since the last time TonyLumpkin viewed them (since I know he knows his shoes). I am no shoe expert, so I won't fake an authoritative review, but I will say that they are no longer made in USA. They are now made in China, and it shows. The leather on both the soles and the uppers looked and felt cheap. There was also discoloration on both soles and uppers, as well as points on the shoe where the leather was slightly "puckered" (I'm assuming from poor or incorrect construction). I didn't even try them on. The one good thing I will say is that there is a generous return policy, which I will take advantage of today.

Hoping to find a brown longwing - or at least wingtip - for under $200 (sadly, the Polo Darlton is out of the question), I am now considering two options:

First, the Florsheim Imperial in cognac.

I have a pair of these in burgundy which I like very much. Not made in USA, and certainly not an Alden, but still a quality shoe. With a coupon I could get these for $180. My one concern is the "cognac" color. I am worried it will be too light (I am not a fan of the "tan" imperials they've had recently).

The second option is the AE Hinsdale, a discontinued model which I've seen for around $180.

https://www.zappos.com/n/p/p/7430740/c/6.html

The virtue of these is that they are darker and USA made (possibly better made, but I'm not sure how much). The downside is that they are not longwings. Also, they seem to have what I can only think to call an "elegance" about them that the Florsheim's do not. This is not necessarily a positive in my book. Then again, some diversity in the wardrobe might be good.

Does anyone own either of these shoes? Anyone care to make a recommendation (informed or otherwise)? Pentheos - what did you end up choosing?


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## paper clip (May 15, 2006)

Thanks for your post and review, TDI Guy. Saved me from taking a charge on the BA Masons.

I think the Hinsdale is a much more "refined" dressy looking shoe compared to the Kenmoor.

I like the look and heft of the Kenmoor, even though presently made in India.

One of these days, I will break down and buy a new pair (on sale) and put a topy on the sole (the current soles are like ice skates on many materials). They can be my rainy day longwing bluchers.


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

Pentheos said:


> Is my only option Florsheim Kenmoors? I really like the look of the shoe. Alden / Allen Edmonds offers nothing.
> 
> I know the Kenmoors are part of the imperial line. But it's hard for me to justify putting down that much money for something besides Alden / AE. Or is it just me?


You should be able to get pebble grain calf in brown or black from AE for $425 ($325+$100.)


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## babycatcher (Apr 6, 2008)

Not pebble, but nice calf IMHO:










Alden calf longwing with commando sole, from Alden of Carmel


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## TDI GUY (Oct 26, 2008)

Thanks for the replies.

babycatcher: those Aldens look great! But, alas, it does not appear that they are still making them. And even if they were, I imagine they would be out of reach financially for me (trying to do this for under $200 is really limiting).

ksinc: I think I knew about the custom option from AE. Again, not really a possibility financially, which is too bad since the AE Macneil is a beautiful shoe. But even then there is part of me that can't imagine spending $425 on shoes that weren't shell cordovan.

paper clip: thanks for your opinion on the Kenmoor v. Hindale. "Refined" tends to be a look I have trouble pulling off (shoes or otherwise) so maybe I'll stay away from the Hindale. Still a little concerned that the cognac on the Kenmoors will be too light, but we'll see......


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## Reddington (Nov 15, 2007)

TDI Guy,

Here's a picture of my Kenmoor's (non-US made). I like the colour and they're ok shoes. I wouldn't (& didn't) pay full price (~$225) for them, but I was unable to find any brown calf long wings. Yeah, AE would make some for me, but I didn't want to pay $400+.


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## tonylumpkin (Jun 12, 2007)

I'm sorry to hear that the quality of the Mason shoes has deteriorated so badly. As I said in my original post, they were a decent shoe at the price they were asking, but that is apparently no longer the case. I am glad to hear they have a generous return policy, so little or no harm done. Good luck with your continuing search!


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## rebel222 (Aug 20, 2008)

TDI, what size do you wear?

I am probably getting another pair of shell Darltons soon... Slightly used, so they may be in your budget...


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## TDI GUY (Oct 26, 2008)

Reddington said:


> TDI Guy,
> 
> Here's a picture of my Kenmoor's (non-US made). I like the colour and they're ok shoes. I wouldn't (& didn't) pay full price (~$225) for them, but I was unable to find any brown calf long wings. Yeah, AE would make some for me, but I didn't want to pay $400+.


Thanks for the pic, Reddington. Is that the cognac?


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## TDI GUY (Oct 26, 2008)

rebel222 said:


> TDI, what size do you wear?
> 
> I am probably getting another pair of shell Darltons soon... Slightly used, so they may be in your budget...


Thanks for the heads up, rebel. I'd certainly take a look at them.

I'm a 9.5D (assuming they run true to size).

PM me when you get them.


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## PJC in NoVa (Jan 23, 2005)

If you're willing to go with a smooth leather rather than a pebble-grain, the Alfred Sargent Baltimores might be an option:

https://www.pediwear.co.uk/sargent/products/1574.php

At today's xe.com exchange rate, they come in at just under $200 (shipment of AS shoes from this vendor is free).


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## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

You could go wingtip instead of longwing


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## Green3 (Apr 8, 2008)

Brown pebble longwing is my favourite shoe. I have some from Dacks, and a nice AE "Slater" which is like the MacNeill.

I am likely going to order some Kenmoors and put a Topy on them for the slop. 

One could also consider the Dack's Dufferin, although a tad pricey, even with the exchange. Dr. Damage has some pictures of real life ones I believe. The web photo is crap.


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## Reddington (Nov 15, 2007)

Green3 said:


> I am likely going to order some Kenmoors and put a Topy on them for the slop.


Don't forget your Tingley overshoes. :icon_smile:


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## dport86 (Jan 24, 2009)

Good news! Tom at LEather Soul is going to reissue his special order Aldens in Alpine Pebble grain. you can spend the money and get the Alden quality you were hoping for.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^^^
...You wouldn't be toying with my emotions would you? If not, please say the shoes will be made up in an antique walnut finish!


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## TDI GUY (Oct 26, 2008)

Do you have any more details on the special order Aldens?


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## obiwan (Feb 2, 2007)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^^^
> ...You wouldn't be toying with my emotions would you? If not, please say the shoes will be made up in an antique walnut finish!


As I understand it no, it will be alpine grain tan calf.


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## rebel222 (Aug 20, 2008)

I received the pre-order email from Tom... $425 for Alpine Scotch Grain. 


Here is the pic, but you can't really see the grain in the pic.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^Thanks for the feedback obiwan and rebel222. The alpine grain, tan calf looks pretty good to me...perhaps it's time to give Tom a call! Thanks again.


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

Gorgeous, but alas out of reach on my academic salary. I'm still looking for a NOS or good used pair of a piece of American history.


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## obiwan (Feb 2, 2007)

rebel222 said:


> I received the pre-order email from Tom... $425 for Alpine Scotch Grain.
> 
> Here is the pic, but you can't really see the grain in the pic.


Anyone else pre-order these yet?


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## Bezalel (Oct 6, 2008)

obiwan said:


> Anyone else pre-order these yet?


What's the rush? We have until the 21st--that's 11 more days. :icon_smile:

I'm actually trying to decide if a size 13 in the Barrie is really right for me, or if a 12 1/2 would be better. The fit of the 13 seems fine and the ball of my foot is in the right place, but the toe box gives me much more wiggling room than I am used to having. Maybe I need to go to a store in the next week and a half and find a 12 1/2 in a Barrie and see how that compares.


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## mcarthur (Jul 18, 2005)

^good thought


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## mxgreen (Jan 18, 2009)

Bezalel said:


> What's the rush? We have until the 21st--that's 11 more days. :icon_smile:
> 
> I'm actually trying to decide if a size 13 in the Barrie is really right for me, or if a 12 1/2 would be better. The fit of the 13 seems fine and the ball of my foot is in the right place, but the toe box gives me much more wiggling room than I am used to having. Maybe I need to go to a store in the next week and a half and find a 12 1/2 in a Barrie and see how that compares.


Yeah, I had been thinking the same thing. I'm in South Florida and it's about a 40 minute ride to the only place that I know that sells Aldens.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

obiwan said:


> Anyone else pre-order these yet?


I did! Now we will see just how long six months can really be.


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## TDI GUY (Oct 26, 2008)

Pentheos said:


> Gorgeous, but alas out of reach on my academic salary. I'm still looking for a NOS or good used pair of a piece of American history.


Pentheos -

I feel your pain. As the OP for this thread, does this mean your quest for brown longwings continues?


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## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

TDI GUY said:


> Pentheos -
> 
> I feel your pain. As the OP for this thread, does this mean your quest for brown longwings continues?


Yes, it does...unfortunately.


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## mxgreen (Jan 18, 2009)

obiwan said:


> Anyone else pre-order these yet?


I did. I just hope I got my size right.


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## Green3 (Apr 8, 2008)

Pentheos said:


> Yes, it does...unfortunately.


I just missed some MacNeil chili grains on ebay from the AE store for $129. NIB, seconds of some sort. I would have pulled the trigger but they ship UPS which is murder to Canada.

If you search your size regularly (i.e. 10.5 Edmonds) you might get lucky.


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## srivats (Jul 29, 2008)

obiwan said:


> Anyone else pre-order these yet?


I did too ...


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