# Should sides of dress shoes be tight?



## Mathew J (Mar 31, 2007)

So I am trying deperately to buy a nice pair of dress shoes, I purchased upon the recommendation of an Allen Edmonds associate near me a pair of Park Aves in 10.5 E, in the store they seemed to fit "ok" but that was only for a few minutes, I got them home and tried them on and they were very tight especially in the sides right before and through the toes almost like they were crunching my foot, that and the right hand one I could feel alot of pressure/friction on the heel when I was wearing some slightly thinner dress socks which I knew would lead to a massive blister.

I took them back to another store and was fitted again to which this associate now says I need 10.5EEE size shoes, they had some in stock so I took them but when I got them home I noticed the stiching that holds up the tongue was ripped (actually noticed this quite a bit on more than a few pairs of Allen Edmonds) as well as the threads holding toether the other tongue weren't done properly and were falling out.

That sales associate said my true size was a 11 D/E however the PAs run long and narrow thus I should be the shorter/wider size.

After noticing those were bad I took them back to another store as the second place didn't have anything else and there they had me try on a pair of 8 last Weybridge in 10.5E and EEE, the Es were again tight in the sides and the EEEs were so large that the left shoes laced up completely and still seemed loose.

Is it normal for dress style shoes to be somewhat tights and uncomfortable on the sides and in the heel when you first buy them? or should I start looking at different styles/sizes?

All of my previous shoes have been "large" styles thus I have never noticed this problem and many I have purchased the wrong size in the past.

Thanks


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## Dr. NS (Aug 25, 2009)

First, good decision on PA. It seems to me like you are 10.5 EEE for PA. My recommendation is to ask the sale rep to order you a 10.5 EEE and try it on. You will be satisfied. It takes time, but eventually only you will be able to tell how comfortable you feel in a shoe. As for me, I never buy a shoe that is uncomfortable on the sides or the heel. It does take time to break-in, but that just increases the comfort level, not make something that is innately uncomfortable into comfortable. Take time, order your PA and enjoy it for years down the road.


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## calviny (Dec 10, 2008)

I agree the park avenue are tight in the sides. i am pretty disappointed with the quality of AEs in general. Just bought two pairs given all the good recs here but they pale in comparison to my cole haan's


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## phyrpowr (Aug 30, 2009)

A shoe should be a "firm", not "tight", fit from the heel to the ball, with room to actually spread the toes...ideally

Good leather will stretch, but not that much, and a too tight initial fit will never be truly comfortable


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## cdavant (Aug 28, 2005)

I can't remember every finding a pair of leather shoes that weren't too tight to begin with. Being blessed with 8.5EEE+++ feet I still have over a dozen AEs on various lasts, including 3 PAs, none of which I could wear for more than a few minutes out of the box. 
What us duck-footed folks need is a good quality shoe stretcher and a bottle of shoe stretching fluid. You can pay a cobbler, but for around $25 you will be prepared to make a shoe fit. I've done shell cordovans as well, and after you realize you won't ruin the leather it only takes a few days to make a too tight shoe conform.
OK, New Balance 6Es are OK out of the box, but everything else gets stretched until the fit is right.


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## theCardiffGiant (Sep 16, 2007)

I can't account for bad experiences with Allen Edmonds shoes.

I wear the Park Avenue, Clifton, and Jackson on a weekly basis, each in 8 EEE, and have no complaints. Actually, before I tried my first pair of Allen Edmonds in that size I thought I wore an 8.5 E.

Each of these shoes is markedly better than my Cole Haans in fit, quality of construction, and quality of material.

They should be somewhat tight, and should be broken in on evenings and weekends around the house before being worn outside, but they shouldn't feel as though they will cause blisters.

You mentioned E and EEE. What about EE? The jump from E to EEE is 3/8 of an inch, so halve that you may solve the problem of tightness on the one hand and looseness on the other.

Having said that, it doesn't sound like you've gotten the best customer service. Aside from using the proper device with a good salesperson, you can get an idea of your proper size by measuring your feet and using the following site:

https://www.geocities.com/handy_feet/shoesize.html

Measure the length of each foot, then the width of each foot at its widest part. Individually, enter the length of one foot and see which shoe size and width comes closest to your measurements. You may find that your feet are different sizes. I'm lucky enough to have the same dimensions, but know people who struggle with fit for this reason.


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## Kurt N (Feb 11, 2009)

Dress shoes do need to be broken in, but don't put up with too-narrow shoes for too long, in the hopes that eventually they'll stretch. I can tell you from personal experience that it's bad for your feet.


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## StevenRocks (May 24, 2005)

It sounds like you need a 11E in the Weybridge and a 10.5EEE in the Park Avenue.


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## Checkerboard 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

Some suggestions:

Don't be satisfied with being offered "stock on hand" as your only options, especially if you are buying retail.
Anyone fitting you for shoes should determine what your needs are and find a shoe that fits those needs, rather than finding a way to convince you that one of the shoes they happen to have in stock actually fits you (especially if it doesn't.)

Find out for yourself what your true fitting needs are. You can determine some of that information using a Brannock device and/or measuring and consulting size tables, however those methods will only yield general information on "size" and width.
What are the particulars of your feet? Flat arches? High insteps? Wider in the toes but narrow in the heal?
All of these aspects of your foot morphology will affect the fit you require. For instance if you have wide toes but a narrow heel, both the Brannock and measurements might yield a width that's OK for your toes, but leaves your heels slipping around and rubbing the inside of the shoes.

Every person should find the lasts that fit them best. I personally am an example of wide toes with a narrow heel. If I sized my shoes based solely on the width at my toes, I would very often end up with shoes that were wide enough for my toes, but even when laced up tight were loose otherwise. 
Similarly, many lasts that would fit my heel would be too tight in the toes.
I personally need a "medium" width shoe that's built on a very wide-toed last. Although I have many pairs of AE shoes, and most of them fit well enough to be comfortable, I find my feet are often more comfortable in some English shoes (many of which are built on lasts with wider toes.)

If your feet have large width variations between toe and heel, I believe Alden makes shoes that can be had in different widths, toe and heel. (Perhaps someone can confirm that.)

One thing to remember is not to presume a shoe is right for you merely because someone else has recommended it. Feet are among the more unique body parts, form person to person. What fits one wonderfully may not have a chance of fitting another well at all.


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## cdavant (Aug 28, 2005)

Many Aldens come in widths like C/E with the heel being narrower. They have also had a "Footbalance" line where the shoes are designed for those of us who wear orthotics or other accommodations.


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## Mathew J (Mar 31, 2007)

StevenRocks said:


> It sounds like you need a 11E in the Weybridge and a 10.5EEE in the Park Avenue.


This is what I was thinking but my fear is that the PA will fit ok in the 10.5EEE at first but then stretch with time and become too big, also that they will be too large in the heel.

As for my foot issues, I am extremely flat footed as told by my podiatrist and over pronate, I also have had a tendency to wear shoes that have little to no arch support over the past few years which isn't the best but I didn't know better. I also have a very low instep which makes things even harder it seems.

I was reading this article which seemed good:

Gave me some answers, but not everything I was looking for.

I don't think I have a narrow heel per say but I do feel my toes are wide in that area much like a duck foot.

In the shoes I have now, which are cheap junk but equivalent in size to an 11.EEE my heel floats around and is actually wearing on the inside of the side wall of the shoe deforming the shoes, same thing for my sperrys.

As for Allen Edmonds I don't know if it is store specific, the first store I went to the guy measured me as a 10.5 but never bothered with the width, he tried to squeeze me into 11Ds to which I balked, I went to another non AE store and tried on a few pairs, that guy measured me an 11E but said in the Park Aves were too long and had me try the 10.5E which he felt were a better fit but were tight on the sides, I just figured it was normal but didn't want to buy as I was still unsure.

I went back to the first Allen Edmonds where they had me try the 10.5 Es and I went with them only to find when I got home they were ripped under the tongue, I knew they were the only ones in the store and they weren't as convenient to me as another location so I went to them and they just ordered me new shoes, only when I got them home and tried to wear them on the carpet did I realize that it would be alot of work breaking them in and I would have the same problem I had with the 11Ds I had just gotten rid of (pair of Burtons which killed my feet).

Took those back which is when they suggested the EEE size, and with that they said I still had room in the left foot which would mean less than a great fit to me but they were more comfortable than the Es. But those were found to be ripped as well when I got home plus the stitching under the tongue on one was all over the place. Took those back to yet another AE's as I knew the store I got them from didn't have alot of EEEs and none in that style.

The last store had me try a few other pairs but all of them were similarly damaged so I opted to just have a pair ordered hoping that they will fit right or close enough.

As for stretching I thought about it, but then I thought having new shoes stretched was too much of a variable cause if it doesn't work then I figured I was stuck with them and didn't know how many had to have this done?

Also I seem to have this problem but I am not a runner nor do I regularly exercise and wonder if my footwear is the culprit...

https://orthopedics.about.com/cs/ankleproblems/a/achilles.htm


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## Checkerboard 13 (Oct 6, 2009)

First and foremost, I would recommend you consult your podiatrist re: what you may or may not be doing incorrectly in the way of footwear.. _and get the suspected tendonitis diagnosed and treated, if necessary!_

Your feet are too important and too vulnerable to ignore!

Perhaps, once any medical concerns are addressed, your podiatrist might also be able to offer suggestions on proper fit.

As for finding shoes that fit well, it would be to your advantage to have as much knowledge about your own personal fitting needs before going to try on shoes (especially since it appears you may have more particular fit issues than most.)
Once you do go to try shoes on, continue trying different sizes and different lasts until you find the shoes that fit!
(Don't fall in love with one particular model, and attempt to find the best fitting compromise. If you can't find a good fit on one last, try another.)

Don't stop until you find shoes that actually fit _properly_. That may mean exploring other brands. Allen Edmonds are good shoes, and they have a large range of styles, on several lasts... but you may discover that none of them fit you particularly well (or perhaps they will.) 
Don't rule out Alden, since they can accommodate different widths, heel and toe (if that is indeed an issue for you.) They will cost a bit more than AE, but if that means the difference between ill fitting and properly fitting shoes, it's money well spent.

Here's info on AE's lasts, which might help point you toward what models you'd like to try:

If you don't know what last any particular AE dress shoe is made on, find the model number. (The AE website shows the model numbers for the current production shoes.) The final digit of the model number is the number of the last it is made on.


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## PedanticTurkey (Jan 26, 2008)

If it's tight around the sides of your foot, it's too damn small. Wearing shoes that don't fit is punishment, horrible, horrible punishment, not worth it no matter how much you like the shoes or how much you paid for them.

The odds are, though, that if the shoe isn't wide enough it's also not long enough--and in my experience this is much worse. It may not be apparent, though, because it's not about how your toes sit in the shoe; it's about the shape of your foot, particularly the arch. Maybe somebody else can explain this better than I have.

At any rate, make it a point to try on more sizes next time you go.


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## Srynerson (Aug 26, 2005)

Mathew J said:


> This is what I was thinking but my fear is that the PA will fit ok in the 10.5EEE at first but then stretch with time and become too big, also that they will be too large in the heel.


My two cents is that I've never had _any_ brand of dress shoe stretch to point of being "too big" from natural wear.


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