# Trad Psychedelia!



## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

(J. Press Spring/Summer 1961, from here. Unrelated, but note the early experimentation with denim! )

(Late 60s Gant, from )


(From Lilly Pulitzer's "MENS STUFF" line. 1970s?)

A hot-button topic if there ever was one. :icon_smile_big: Batik! Paisley! Surreal prints! What was the context of all this stuff back then? (It's been swim trunk territory since 1940... when'd it make the jump to other clothing?) How'd it fare after the 60s/70s? Is there still a place for it in the look today?


----------



## Youngster (Jun 5, 2008)

This must be where engineered garments is drawing inspiration from. I always wondered where they where getting such crazy ideas.


----------



## C. Sharp (Dec 18, 2008)

Native prints made an appearance in the early 50's. If you look at Gentry magazines from the period you will see this. As you show they make another strong appearance in the early 60's. They even had his and hers matching Batik shirts. Madras never really went away but we currently have Madras saturation. Batik has never really come back. J. Crew did a nice pair shorts in Batik circa 1989 and I think they have flirted with it recently. Bills did this https://shop.oconnellsclothing.com/search.php?q=lobster+batik They also have theses

Here is Madras looking like Batik

Lilly got a mention in the OPH. Chipp even had their version. I have seen swim trunks by them that were very Puilitzer like.



katon said:


> (J. Press Spring/Summer 1961, from here. Unrelated, but note the early experimentation with denim! )
> 
> (Late 60s Gant, from )
> 
> ...


----------



## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

The very name of the thread is a contradiction in terms! "Is there still a place for it in the look today?", you ask--CERTAINLY NOT IN MY CLOSET!


----------



## JDDY (Mar 18, 2006)

I like it, may go for those Bills batik shorts. West Coast trad beach vibe. Didn't realize trad was only for squares, Saltydog.


----------



## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

I wonder if this "psychedelia," mostly wild prints, is related to the Hawaiian shirt, which has been around considerably longer? They got a boost in popularity in WW2, when a lot of servicemen went through Hawaii. Since they are very rarely mentioned on the trad forum, I'm assuming they're not considered trad?


----------



## C. Sharp (Dec 18, 2008)

Rambler,
See the spring summer Press catalog from 07 mentioned in the Press catalog thread https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?105596-J.-Press-catalogs. On pg 18 is a Spooner cloth jacket.


The Rambler said:


> I wonder if this "psychedelia," mostly wild prints, is related to the Hawaiian shirt, which has been around considerably longer? They got a boost in popularity in WW2, when a lot of servicemen went through Hawaii. Since they are very rarely mentioned on the trad forum, I'm assuming they're not considered trad?


----------



## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

C. Sharp said:


> Rambler,
> See the spring summer Press catalog from 07 mentioned in the Press catalog thread https://askandyaboutclothes.com/community/showthread.php?105596-J.-Press-catalogs. On pg 18 is a Spooner cloth jacket.


I think there were a lot of the Spooner cloth jackets still hanging at the D.C. store last month so you could probably still get one.

There was a big boom in Polynesia in the US in the late 1950's. South Pacific was the #1 movie of 1958. Trader Vic's and Mai Tais and that kind of thing. I doubt the Press Batik jacket was unrelated to that.

In general, sportswear became very colorful in this period probably due to a combination of the increasing popularity of golf, Technicolor, and the influence of Florida and California on the American mind. Probably this trend was especially pronounced among men who frequented country clubs and resorts, explaining the association with preppiness that lingered until 1980.


----------



## HL Poling and Sons (Mar 24, 2006)

I'd imagine Paul Winston would have a lot to contribute to this thread.


----------



## Youngster (Jun 5, 2008)

The Rambler said:


> I wonder if this "psychedelia," mostly wild prints, is related to the Hawaiian shirt, which has been around considerably longer? They got a boost in popularity in WW2, when a lot of servicemen went through Hawaii. Since they are very rarely mentioned on the trad forum, I'm assuming they're not considered trad?


Let's not worry about them being trad. 
On their own merits, however, they do have a tradition to them, and they are part of American culture, and the spooner version are US made. . And they are even semi-practical for summer.
On the downside, they are, even in the most staid forms, a bit garish for my puritan tastes. And I've never found one that fits well. 
Now, given those assumptions, are they worth wearing?


----------



## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

Having 70's flashbacks!!!


----------



## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

purchased in a vintage clothing store in Makawao, Maui in '83. psychedelic, if not exactly trad?


----------



## Dr.Watson (Sep 25, 2008)

Oddly enough, this may be making at least a minor comeback. The Polo section in Belks has paisely (or maybe "batik" though I am not quite sure what that is) shorts and shirts very similar to the pattern on those J Press jackets. 

J. Crew had a paisley sportcoat last year (I bought a tie in the same pattern).


----------



## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

Here's a new pair of Bills appropriate to this thread


----------



## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

J Crew from the late 80s/early90s, when they had a great run of ties from Canada


----------



## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

Cardinals5 said:


> Here's a new pair of Bills appropriate to this thread


Actually I know for a fact that these Bill's were patterned after a pair Keith Richards wore during the "Exile" recording sessions in 1969. : )


----------



## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

Bills Khakis is a company founded on the premise that WWII style khakis could no longer be found. I have to wonder if there was a little known branch of the service that dressed in a more unorthodox manner. I wonder if these come in a MI model? What were they thinking? Everyone knows paisley pants have to be low rise and tight with flaired bottoms...to be worn with a wide white patent leather belt.


----------



## andy b. (Mar 18, 2010)

Cardinals5 said:


> Here's a new pair of Bills appropriate to this thread


Oh MAN!!!!! I NEED to get a pair of those!

Andy B.


----------



## C. Sharp (Dec 18, 2008)

Gentry magazine https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...702-Gentry-No.-3-Summer-1952&highlight=Gentry

https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...492-Gentry-No.-2-Spring-1952&highlight=Gentry


----------



## Coleman (Mar 18, 2009)

J. Crew's selling some trousers right now also - https://www.jcrew.com/AST/Browse/Me...gory/pants/bowerypants/PRDOVR~18270/18270.jsp.

They must be _in_.

I don't _get _ it, I guess.


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

The Rambler said:


> I wonder if this "psychedelia," mostly wild prints, is related to the Hawaiian shirt, which has been around considerably longer? They got a boost in popularity in WW2, when a lot of servicemen went through Hawaii. Since they are very rarely mentioned on the trad forum, I'm assuming they're not considered trad?


I only wear mine while drinking Pina Coladas at Trader Vic's!!


----------



## maximar (Jan 11, 2010)

Saltydog said:


> Bills Khakis is a company founded on the premise that WWII style khakis could no longer be found. I have to wonder if there was a little known branch of the service that dressed in a more unorthodox manner. I wonder if these come in a MI model? What were they thinking? Everyone knows paisley pants have to be low rise and tight with flaired bottoms...to be worn with a wide white patent leather belt.





127.72 MHz said:


> Actually I know for a fact that these Bill's were patterned after a pair Keith Richards wore during the "Exile"
> recording sessions in 1969. : )


Which war inspired the release of these pants? Kudos to the designer. Bills is no longer the manly-man pants that I thought to be but man-ish. AWWW! :icon_smile_big:


----------



## kforton (Oct 26, 2005)

Cardinals5 said:


> Here's a new pair of Bills appropriate to this thread


These are fantastic!!!


----------



## TheWGP (Jan 15, 2010)

Cardinals5 said:


> Here's a new pair of Bills appropriate to this thread


*drool* so awesome!


----------



## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

Since several people have expressed interest, here's the eBay advertisement for them.

Bills Khakis, M2 (flat front), unhemmed


----------



## TheWGP (Jan 15, 2010)

Cool... I might actually message the guy and ask if he can find any in a 38-40 at the seconds store. For some reason, I'm actually also seeing this pattern going well as shorts... maybe reducing (though not eliminating!) the horrified screaming from spouses?


----------



## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Cardinals5 said:


> Since several people have expressed interest, here's the eBay advertisement for them.
> 
> Bills Khakis, M2 (flat front), unhemmed


doesn't anyone else find them hideous?


----------



## andy b. (Mar 18, 2010)

WouldaShoulda said:


> I only wear mine while drinking Pina Coladas at Trader Vic's!!


I hope your name isn't Jim, as you may get your lungs ripped out. 

And Cards, why'd you go and post that link to the auction. Now I'll have a lot of competition in my bidding.  J/K, but I will bid if they don't go too insanely high.

Andy B.


----------



## Thom Browne's Schooldays (Jul 29, 2007)

What exactly is "batik"?

I know polo and J.Crew both had a bunch of "batik" blue and white paisley items during the last decade, I bought a nice paisley summer tie from one of them.


----------



## Pink and Green (Jul 22, 2009)

Today, we have learned that even Press can go wrong.


----------



## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

Thom Browne's Schooldays said:


> What exactly is "batik"?
> 
> I know polo and J.Crew both had a bunch of "batik" blue and white paisley items during the last decade, I bought a nice paisley summer tie from one of them.


Its a method in which designs are put on fabric in wax. The fabric is then dyed, but th waxed designs don't take the dye. then the wax is removed.


----------



## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

Here's a couple probably appropriate for this thread


----------



## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

The Rambler said:


> doesn't anyone else find them hideous?


Well, khaki doesn't seem like the best ground for that type of trouser... I mean, granted, they'd still be hideous even in a brighter background, but that's part of the fun.


----------



## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

The Rambler said:


> doesn't anyone else find them hideous?


LOL, count me as a yes, to that question!


----------



## C. Sharp (Dec 18, 2008)

Lobster batik now on sale https://shop.oconnellsclothing.com/...orts/bill_khakis_lobster_batik_bermuda_shorts


----------



## andy b. (Mar 18, 2010)

So who won the Bill's Khakis for $33.09? I was going to bid, but the size is 2" too big in the waist, and the M2 fit is probably loose enough that it wouldn't look right after I had them taken in enough to fit.

On another note though, this Lilly Pulitzer corduroy sport coat is GREAT!!! I want to know who comes up with the LP ideas. 


Andy B.


----------



## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

^^ I sold a very similar vintage Lilly P. sport coat earlier this year (mine didn't have hacking pockets), but it only sold for $40 - at least it appropriately went to someone in Florida.


----------



## My Pet. A Pantsuit (Dec 25, 2008)

Cardinals5 said:


> Here's a new pair of Bills appropriate to this thread


Oh man, just imagine how those'll look after they get faded and scraped up...


----------



## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

From the WAYWT the other day, my weird BB two-button sack with twin vents


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Upstairs...










Downstairs...










Excellent!!


----------



## Patrick06790 (Apr 10, 2005)

^ You know, I'd do that.

Once.


----------



## andy b. (Mar 18, 2010)

Patrick,

You always post great outfits in the WAYWT thread. I have only recently been going through the thread and you wear a lot of items I'd certainly wear.

Andy B.


----------



## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

The Rambler said:


> doesn't anyone else find them hideous?


Hideous beyond belief! When did Trad go clownish?


----------



## JDDY (Mar 18, 2006)

I think the paisleys are cool, especially if they were shorts. I don't wear shorts too often but when I do since they are so casual I like really loud/obnoxious patterns and colors, and paisley fits the bill. If Keith Richards wore them all strung out on the coast of France while making that classic of classics all the better.


Cardinals' example of the rainbow jacket and patchwork are clownish, look like bozo's gth rig.


----------



## anarcho-dandyist (Feb 23, 2009)

andy b. said:


> On another note though, this Lilly Pulitzer corduroy sport coat is GREAT!!! I want to know who comes up with the LP ideas.


LP corduroy sports coat in yellow too:


----------



## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

What about Liberty's of London print shirts? Anglo psychedelia?  Part of the U.S. look? (The ones above are Italian-made from Liberty themselves. A bunch of people seem to make shirts out of their fabrics, though. Any recommended U.S. or U.K. makers?)


----------



## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

Also, for those wondering how Pullitzer pants might be put to use "in the wild", an old photo of Robert Bavier circa 1974 at the America's Cup trials. (From the American Trad Men thread.)


----------



## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

katon said:


> Also, for those wondering how Pullitzer pants might be put to use "in the wild", an old photo of Robert Bavier circa 1974 at the America's Cup trials. (From the American Trad Men thread.)


Fabulous picture!


----------



## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

Thanks, Rambler.  Doctor Damage dug that one up.

















More Anglo psychedelia from New & Lingwood. Patch paisley shirts? Yikes!


----------



## andy b. (Mar 18, 2010)

katon said:


> What about Liberty's of London print shirts? Anglo psychedelia?  Part of the U.S. look? (The ones above are Italian-made from Liberty themselves. A bunch of people seem to make shirts out of their fabrics, though. Any recommended U.S. or U.K. makers?)


If that wasn't $185 I'd already have bought it. 



katon said:


> Thanks, Rambler.  Doctor Damage dug that one up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And the same with that one. $110 plus shipping is still too rich for my blood at present though.

Andy B.


----------



## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

Here's one from Oakloom


----------



## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

And, another...

Norman Hilton trousers, 34x32 (currently on eBay)


----------



## andy b. (Mar 18, 2010)

Both, AWESOME!!!!!
I told my wife I have been looking for a paisley jacket.
I have no idea what you'd even wear those pants with. I can't see wearing a plain colored shirt with it (so boring compared to the pants), but I don't know what else you could even attempt to match.

Does anyone here actually have any "Trad Psychedelia" that they own and wear? If so, post up some photos!!!

Andy B.


----------



## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

andy b. said:


> Both, AWESOME!!!!!
> I told my wife I have been looking for a paisley jacket.
> I have no idea what you'd even wear those pants with. I can't see wearing a plain colored shirt with it (so boring compared to the pants), but I don't know what else you could even attempt to match.
> 
> ...


No, Andy B, that's what you _must_ do: the mildly rebellious spirit of gth only has meaning in the context of the conventional, and can only be sucessful if you convey a clear sense of the conventions you are "escaping" from. A good choice for most of the absurd garments here on display is a blue blazer, a 3 button sack, and a nice blue ocbd and club or regimental tie: that properly sets off the horrendous Bill's paisleys or the sublime Lilys pictured above. For confirmation, study the early 70s picture posted by Katon, above :icon_smile_big: And, by the way, gth beginners should start with the trou, which is the proper seat of rebellion.


----------



## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

The longer this goes on the more dismayed I become. It's as though I awoke and found that my church, heretofore assumed to be filled with sane similar minded people has been transformed into some sort of 70's cult. This sure isn't Kansas anymore is it Toto? The world of khakis, ocbds, weejans, navy blazers, repp ties, etc. is now a-swirl with quiltwork patchs and garish paisley. I'm afraid of closing my eyes again!


----------



## andy b. (Mar 18, 2010)

The Rambler said:


> No, Andy B, that's what you _must_ do: the mildly rebellious spirit of gth only has meaning in the context of the conventional, and can only be sucessful if you convey a clear sense of the conventions you are "escaping" from. A good choice for most of the absurd garments here on display is a blue blazer, a 3 button sack, and a nice blue ocbd and club or regimental tie: that properly sets off the horrendous Bill's paisleys or the sublime Lilys pictured above. For confirmation, study the early 70s picture posted by Katon, above :icon_smile_big: And, by the way, gth beginners should start with the trou, which is the proper seat of rebellion.


So you're saying my Madras shirt would be perfect with those pants? 

Andy B.


----------



## The Rambler (Feb 18, 2010)

andy b. said:


> So you're saying my Madras shirt would be perfect with those pants?
> 
> Andy B.


sure, try it :icon_smile_wink:


----------



## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

Living near an oceanfront community, I've developed a weakness for tropical patterns and "Hawaiian" shirts in the summertime. I found this batik button-down at a thrift store a few years ago. It was originally purchased at the English Sport Shop in Bermuda. It's become a warm-weather favorite. Currently being worn un-tucked with some battered khaki shorts, a leather d-ring belt, and brown Topsiders.


----------



## Topsider (Jul 9, 2005)

katon said:


> What about Liberty's of London print shirts?


Target stores in the U.S. were carrying some very affordably-priced Liberty of London items recently, including a few long-sleeved shirts similar to the ones pictured. Maxminimus featured them on his blog not too long ago. They were a little flashy for me, however, so I passed. I was tempted, however.


----------



## ButtondownMind (Sep 24, 2008)

I'm freakin' out, man!


----------



## bd79cc (Dec 20, 2006)

From the current catalog:


----------



## Saltydog (Nov 3, 2007)

ButtondownMind said:


> I'm freakin' out, man!


As well you should sir...as well you should.


----------



## yossarian (Apr 17, 2007)

bd79cc said:


> From the current catalog:


I have a Lily P. bathing suit very similar to the "Everglades" shorts. I picked it up at the Lily store in Charlottesville, right near Eljo's, for $25. I find that the garish pattern works quite well as a bathing suit.

Off Topic, and I don't know if they do it every year, but in late July/early August 2008, the Lily store in Charlottesville ran a great sale, with many items at 75% off. I picked up the above-mentioned bathing suit, a great seersucker dress and cardigan for my daughter, a very cool seersucker tie with pink flamingoes for my son and a beautiful cardigan for my wife. All in, I don't think I spent $150 on everything.


----------



## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

Another photo of this stuff in action, borrowed from here.  Not sure if it was a candid shot or staged for a magazine, though.


----------



## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

Sports Illustrated
February 11, 1957 
"..he's going to be seeing a lot more of it, for batik seems to be the successor to India's madras as the next hand-crafted fabric to crop up in sun-time American sports clothes.
.... Light colors are preferred in the plains, and dark in the forests. The indigo and other dyes will "bleed" in the manner of madras, but that is considered part of the charm. Now coming in on a strong tropical wave by way of Caribbean resorts, just as did madras, batik promises soon to be as popular on the American scene as it is in Nigeria."
https://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1132647/index.htm

February 18, 1957
Few people have ever enjoyed a life as idyllic and luxurious as the happy sun-seekers photographed on these pages. Ten miles north of Montego Bay on the British West Indies island of Jamaica they have created a luxurious and exclusive retreat named Round Hill, which is now in its fourth season. Either as shareholders who have built their own homes on the 100-acre estate or as guests at the small hotel which is the center of its social life, Round Hillers spend most of their day on a beach shaped like a crescent moon and lapped by a sea as clear as air. They follow a fairly formal pattern of dressing-changing to sports clothes for lunch, and then dress again for cocktails or dinner and dancing to the best Calypso band in Jamaica. Round Hill has a reputation for setting the fashion pace in the Caribbean. Its devotees started the trend to madras (SI, Feb. 21, '55), now prefer Oriental silks or native-printed cotton batiks (SI, Feb. 11, '57), styles which will undoubtedly come north with the sun to United States resorts.
https://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1132616/index.htm

January 11th, 1960
Bigger than ever in this winter resort season is Indian madras. Now a perennial, madras dyed in muted colors peculiar to India's vegetable dyes, came into this hemisphere by way of the Caribbean (SI, Jan. 23, 1956) and is now dominant in all caregories of resort apparel-slacks, shorts, shirts, dresses, dinner jackets, at-home pajamas, ties, cummerbunds, belts, even shoes and ditty bags for sailboats. It has paved the way for other fabrics with a similar rough-crafted look: batiks in brilliant Javanese and African prints are one example; sturdy work fabrics such as duck, denim and ticking are others. Shown here in Charlotte Amalie are shore clothes, for socializing or spectating at the Go-Kart races. They will be as much at home on northern shores this summer








https://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1134396/index.htm


----------



## G&T (Jul 2, 2010)

An older guy I work with does Cabana/Hawaiian shirts quite well and in a very classically American way. I like to think of his style as Ivy League on Vacation/Retirement (he is partially retired). 

I don't wear any floral/paisley prints, but I do have several bright tartan button-downs in both madras and broadcloth that border on psychedelia.


----------



## katon (Dec 25, 2006)

(1939)

J. Press was apparently an early adopter when it came to the Batik trend. Maybe they started it?


----------



## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

McGeorge paisley cashmere sweater (If interested, it's going cheap on eBay: )


----------



## ButtonedDown (Sep 14, 2010)

The Rambler said:


> purchased in a vintage clothing store in Makawao, Maui in '83. psychedelic, if not exactly trad?


I like it a lot.

--bill


----------



## roman totale XVII (Sep 18, 2009)

> McGeorge paisley cashmere sweater (If interested, it's going cheap on eBay: )
> ​


That is bloody fantastic! If it were a smidgen larger I would be all over it...


----------



## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

Not quite psychedelic, but close enough

Viyella 3/2 sack


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

^^^

It's freaking me out!!


----------



## CMDC (Jan 31, 2009)

Wow. That's my size but I don't think I'm the man for it. Not that it couldn't work. It's not so wild that you couldn't tone it down with a solid tie, etc. Intriguing.


----------



## andy b. (Mar 18, 2010)

Not bad. If it had a bit more brightness, I'd make a low-ball offer on it (being it is my size as well). 

Andy B.


----------



## Cardinals5 (Jun 16, 2009)

Gordon-Ford out of Philly (I like their more staid jackets)

3/2 batik


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

The Batik print stuff didn't age very well compared to Madras, did it?


----------



## C. Sharp (Dec 18, 2008)

Batik of that age was nice handmade native fabric. Aldenpyle laid out the evolution a couple of pages back. https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...05601-Trad-Psychedelia!&p=1118112#post1118112

I noticed from period advertising batik was traded back and forth between the Caribbean outfitters and the college shops. One could outfit themselves in the resort towns or by the early 60's you could buy your batik at your college shop before leaving for vacation.

I would acknowledge that madras has been a resilient survivor. I would also say that we are at the point of madras saturation again, so it is easy to forget that there has been points of mass popularity and points when it was more cloistered.


----------



## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

Jovan said:


> The Batik print stuff didn't age very well compared to Madras, did it?


I'm not sure that I agree. If I could find a batik 3/2 in my size, reasonably priced, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Anyone?


----------



## straw sandals (Apr 14, 2010)

I'm with you, 32. I think that you'd need to consciously channel a 1960's aesthetic, however. Skinny lapels, high arm holes, and a shorter length with Bermuda shorts and boat shoes (or loafers) would be an amazing summer BBQ kit.



32rollandrock said:


> I'm not sure that I agree. If I could find a batik 3/2 in my size, reasonably priced, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Anyone?


----------



## Taken Aback (Aug 3, 2009)

32rollandrock said:


> I'm not sure that I agree. If I could find a batik 3/2 in my size, reasonably priced, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Anyone?


I'd probably give it a shot, but I wouldn't gamble on loving it.


----------



## 32rollandrock (May 1, 2008)

That is a too-die-for visualization.



straw sandals said:


> I'm with you, 32. I think that you'd need to consciously channel a 1960's aesthetic, however. Skinny lapels, high arm holes, and a shorter length with Bermuda shorts and boat shoes (or loafers) would be an amazing summer BBQ kit.


----------

