# More from Ralph



## Oldsarge




----------



## fred johnson

Are pleats really back?


----------



## Oldsarge

fred johnson said:


> Are pleats really back?


Have been for a couple of years.


----------



## Old Road Dog

That was their 1970's featured trouser. Looks like the model skipped running the waistband extension tab through the keeper loop before buttoning it. I loved that trouser in gray woolen flannel.


----------



## SG_67

Ralph Lauren, at least through the RLPL line, has bee offering forward pleats for quite some time.


----------



## Andy

fred johnson said:


> Are pleats really back?


Fred:
Are you joking. Pleats never left us. It's engineered in trousers so you can SIT DOWN!


----------



## drpeter

Andy said:


> Fred:
> Are you joking. Pleats never left us. It's engineered in trousers so you can SIT DOWN!


I agree. I like trousers with pleats, especially forward (English) pleats like the one in the picture. There may have been a period in the fifties and sixties when pleats were rare but they started coming back by the mid-seventies. I believe the need to conserve cloth during the Second World War was instrumental in the disappearance of pleats during wartime and this trend continued into the fifties. The same reason is thought to be behind changes in the hemlines of women's skirts and dresses.

Here's an intriguing question: Did the hemlines of Scotsmen's kilts go up during wartime? To conserve all that tartan, perhaps, so that there would be enough to supply kilts for regimental pipers (like the Black Watch or the Argyll & Sutherland regiment) marching into battle. It's the perfect topic for a PhD thesis at the University of Edinburgh...only joking, I hope the descendants of Scotland don't descend on me!


----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

The "


drpeter said:


> I agree. I like trousers with pleats, especially forward (English) pleats like the one in the picture. There may have been a period in the fifties and sixties when pleats were rare but they started coming back by the mid-seventies. I believe the need to conserve cloth during the Second World War was instrumental in the disappearance of pleats during wartime and this trend continued into the fifties. The same reason is thought to be behind changes in the hemlines of women's skirts and dresses.
> 
> Here's an intriguing question: Did the hemlines of Scotsmen's kilts go up during wartime? To conserve all that tartan, perhaps, so that there would be enough to supply kilts for regimental pipers (like the Black Watch or the Argyll & Sutherland regiment) marching into battle. It's the perfect topic for a PhD thesis at the University of Edinburgh...only joking, I hope the descendants of Scotland don't descend on me!


The "proper" hemline of a kilt can be debated. I favor one inch over the knee for mine. Having a kilt that is too long looks sloppy. Having one too short looks like one is wearing his sisters school uniform.

Total yardage and not hemline is where the big savings in cloth is made in a kilt.

https://kiltsociety.com/blogs/the-blog/5-yard-or-8-yard-kilt
My 2 kilts are 8 yards and extremely heavy.

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## drpeter

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> The "
> 
> The "proper" hemline of a kilt can be debated. I favor on inch over the knee for mine. Having a kilt that is too long looks sloppy. Having one to short looks like one is wearing sisters school uniform.
> 
> Total yardage and not hemline is where the big savings in cloth is made in a kilt.
> 
> https://kiltsociety.com/blogs/the-blog/5-yard-or-8-yard-kilt
> My 2 kilts are 8 yards and extremely heavy.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR


Fascinating! I had no idea that there were different yardages used in kilts. @bsr, do you wear your kilts often, or only for ceremonial occasions?


----------



## Andy

More about pleats. They are not a fashion item!

Pleats have been with us since 1825 and are also practical. They automatically widen at the hips when you sit down giving you more room.

Pleats let you put more stuff in your front pockets (including your hands) without disturbing the drape. Pleats are classic and the combination of pleats and cuffs on trousers are a great look.

_Really do these flat front trousers make you look thinner?_


----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

drpeter said:


> Fascinating! I had no idea that there were different yardages used in kilts. @bsr, do you wear your kilts often, or only for ceremonial occasions?


I have a formal Prince Charlie kilt rig as well as some less formal combinations.

I used to wear my kilts quite regularly until my wife suggested that they garnered an excess of unwanted female attention. Now kilt wearing is limited and I rock the shawl collar tux, blending in with the other penguins. 

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## Oldsarge

Andy said:


> _Really do these flat front trousers make you look thinner?_


I don't think _anything_ would make me look thinner . . . _  _


----------



## Oldsarge

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> I have a formal Prince Charlie kilt rig as well as some less formal combinations.
> 
> I used to wear my kilts quite regularly until my wife suggested that they garnered an excess of unwanted female attention. Now kilt wearing is limited and I rock the shawl collar tux, blending in with the other penguins.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR


In my case female attention would never be unwanted . . .


----------



## drpeter

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> I have a formal Prince Charlie kilt rig as well as some less formal combinations.
> 
> I used to wear my kilts quite regularly until my wife suggested that they garnered an excess of unwanted female attention. Now kilt wearing is limited and I rock the shawl collar tux, blending in with the other penguins.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR


Women seem to love the appearance of men wearing kilts. Here's an interesting twist in the tartan story: The Gurkha Regiments in India (and the Gurkha Brigade in Britain) have pipe-and-drum bands and the pipers wear ceremonial tartans, usually as a kind of piper's cloak, but occasionally they wear kilts too. They are usually in regimental colors woven into plaids. I like to think of this as a nice exchange between the Scots and the Gurkhas: The Scots got paisley from India (Kashmir, and before that Persia), and gave the Gurkhas tartan in return!


----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

drpeter said:


> Women seem to love the appearance of men wearing kilts. Here's an interesting twist in the tartan story: The Gurkha Regiments in India (and the Gurkha Brigade in Britain) have pipe-and-drum bands and the pipers wear ceremonial tartans, usually as a kind of piper's cloak, but occasionally they wear kilts too. They are usually in regimental colors woven into plaids. I like to think of this as a nice exchange between the Scots and the Gurkhas: The Scots got paisley from India (Kashmir, and before that Persia), and gave the Gurkhas tartan in return!


There is a saying, I think it goes "A man in a kilt is a man and a half"

I don't think a man can don a kilt and not exude confidence. It takes a bit of fortitude to wear the Scottish skirt and be a physical representation of all the blood and history behind it.

I am an American citizen and Scottish, English, and German by heritage. My name is Scott, yet I have been directly challenged on a few occasions by drunken Scots for sporting the kilt, but I haven't met a man yet with the balls to try to take it from me. Maybe it is the knife in the sock?

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## fishertw

Oldsarge said:


> Have been for a couple of years.


they never left for me!


----------



## fishertw

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> The "
> 
> The "proper" hemline of a kilt can be debated. I favor one inch over the knee for mine. Having a kilt that is too long looks sloppy. Having one too short looks like one is wearing his sisters school uniform.
> 
> Total yardage and not hemline is where the big savings in cloth is made in a kilt.
> 
> https://kiltsociety.com/blogs/the-blog/5-yard-or-8-yard-kilt
> My 2 kilts are 8 yards and extremely heavy.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR


My Anderson Kilt is an 8 yard and heavy as well.


----------



## Color 8

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> The "
> 
> The "proper" hemline of a kilt can be debated. I favor one inch over the knee for mine. Having a kilt that is too long looks sloppy. Having one too short looks like one is wearing his sisters school uniform.
> 
> Total yardage and not hemline is where the big savings in cloth is made in a kilt.
> 
> https://kiltsociety.com/blogs/the-blog/5-yard-or-8-yard-kilt
> My 2 kilts are 8 yards and extremely heavy.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR


To my knowledge, the rule of thumb is that the correct length for a kilt is such that the hem will just touch the ground when the wearer is kneeling with straight posture. 
This is how I was always measured.


----------



## FiscalDean

fred johnson said:


> Are pleats really back?


I've never worn trousers with pleats and never will. I just don't like the way they look on me and I really don't care what is "fashionable". Furthermore, I've never really had a problem with comfort while sitting.


----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

I


Color 8 said:


> To my knowledge, the rule of thumb is that the correct length for a kilt is such that the hem will just touch the ground when the wearer is kneeling with straight posture.
> This is how I was always measured.


 I have been measured twice by Scottish kilt makers, but it was 20 years so I can remember their method. Your suggestion makes sense.

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## eagle2250

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> There is a saying, I think it goes "A man in a kilt is a man and a half"
> 
> I don't think a man can don a kilt and not exude confidence. It takes a bit of fortitude to wear the Scottish skirt and be a physical representation of all the blood and history behind it.
> 
> I am an American citizen and Scottish, English, and German by heritage. My name is Scott, yet I have been directly challenged on a few occasions by drunken Scots for sporting the kilt, but I haven't met a man yet with the balls to try to take it from me. Maybe it is the knife in the sock?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR


I heartily agree with everything you said is the post above and will only add that I think it takes a certain type of man to wear one. Years back, at the urging of some herein, I got it into my head to purchase of kilt in the USAF Tartan design fabric. It seemed like such a good idea at the time, but to be completely honest I must tell you that other than wearing said garment in the privacy of our own home (for less than an hour) and with only the wife around to observe and comment, I have never really worn the darned thing. The kids, grand kids and certainly no one else will ever see it on me. Somewhere out in the garage it is secreted away, hopefully never to be discovered, if I should pass. With substantial embarrassment, I am compelled to admit that I am clearly not the man to wear a kilt! LOL. But I greatly respect those who can do so.


----------



## Oldsarge

I have three, though they are 'sport kilt' lightweights. I have one in California tartan (derived from the Muir, naturally) a U.S. Army and a very rare UC Riverside Highlanders. They last you simply can't get anymore. So I prize it highly even though I haven't yet figured out when the Portland Highland Games takes place.


----------



## drpeter

FiscalDean said:


> I've never worn trousers with pleats and never will. I just don't like the way they look on me and I really don't care what is "fashionable". Furthermore, I've never really had a problem with comfort while sitting.


Perfectly reasonable. I think one should wear whatever style pleases one, and to hell with fashion! I have both kinds, pleated and flat front, and I like them both. I believe they both look fine on me, and no one has told me otherwise so far. Regarding comfort, as long as the trousers have an 11-inch rise, I am comfortable, whether I am wearing pleated trousers or flat fronts. Shorter rises are always uncomfortable, and I don't care for pants which sit low on the waist, in the teenage hipster style.

The flat fronts I find ideal are the Air Force Blues -- regulation trousers in wool or wool mixture. They have a nice high rise, are snug but not overly tight about the waist and hips, and have a very trim, neat silhouette with a comfortable cuff circumference (18" or so). The heavier winter-weight (100% wool) Army Olive Greens are also great -- they are similar in structure to the AF Blues, only a bit looser perhaps in the thigh and leg. I have several pairs of both kinds of trousers, Air Force and Army styles. They go very well with Harris tweed jackets (tic weave, herringbone) and with houndstooth or district check sports jackets.

What I'd give my eyeteeth for: US Army Pinks!!! I am hopeful that in very recent times, the Army is said to be considering going back to them, starting this year. They were decommissioned (if that's the right word) around 1945 or so, I think, and are scarce. A pair turns up once in a while on eBay. Here is some information, and a picture that shows the trousers (only partially) for both men and women and also a skirt and pumps outfit for women:

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your...ision-on-the-iconic-pinks-and-greens-uniform/


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> I heartily agree with everything you said is the post above and will only add that I think it takes a certain type of man to wear one. Years back, at the urging of some herein, I got it into my head to purchase of kilt in the USAF Tartan design fabric. It seemed like such a good idea at the time, but to be completely honest I must tell you that other than wearing said garment in the privacy of our own home (for less than an hour) and with only the wife around to observe and comment, I have never really worn the darned thing. The kids, grand kids and certainly no one else will ever see it on me. Somewhere out in the garage it is secreted away, hopefully never to be discovered, if I should pass. With substantial embarrassment, I am compelled to admit that I am clearly not the man to wear a kilt! LOL. But I greatly respect those who can do so.


If you send it to me, @eagle2250, I'll happily wear it, LOL. Provided it will fit me, or can be altered to fit me. What better than an Indian-American in a USAF tartan kilt? And one who speaks the Queen's English, to boot? Humour aside, it might also be a good idea to give it to a friend or family member, or a random Scotsman (picked out of a bus queue in Glasgow?), so that it gets a wee bit o' use.


----------



## Color 8

eagle2250 said:


> I heartily agree with everything you said is the post above and will only add that I think it takes a certain type of man to wear one. Years back, at the urging of some herein, I got it into my head to purchase of kilt in the USAF Tartan design fabric. It seemed like such a good idea at the time, but to be completely honest I must tell you that other than wearing said garment in the privacy of our own home (for less than an hour) and with only the wife around to observe and comment, I have never really worn the darned thing. The kids, grand kids and certainly no one else will ever see it on me. Somewhere out in the garage it is secreted away, hopefully never to be discovered, if I should pass. With substantial embarrassment, I am compelled to admit that I am clearly not the man to wear a kilt! LOL. But I greatly respect those who can do so.


It is simply a question of venue.

I started wearing a kilt as a Highland Games competitor, because it is required. In the US, Highland Games are usually held in conjunction with larger festivals, where kilts are not uncommon among the attendees - from $50 cotton "utility kilts" in a riot of colors to Pipe and Drum competitors' rigs costing in the thousands. Then there are galas where the full dress kit fits right in.
Failing that, break out your kilt next St. Patrick's Day, and head to the bar ! You'll be glad you did, and feel perfectly natural after the first 15 minutes. It is in your Official Clan Tartan (USAF), so you have every right to wear it.

Again, it is just a question of venue - it's not like something I wear to a diner, or Home Depot (although I have done both)


----------



## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> If you send it to me, @eagle2250, I'll happily wear it, LOL. Provided it will fit me, or can be altered to fit me. What better than an Indian-American in a USAF tartan kilt? And one who speaks the Queen's English, to boot? Humour aside, it might also be a good idea to give it to a friend or family member, or a random Scotsman (picked out of a bus queue in Glasgow?), so that it gets a wee bit o' use.





Color 8 said:


> It is simply a question of venue.
> 
> I started wearing a kilt as a Highland Games competitor, because it is required. In the US, Highland Games are usually held in conjunction with larger festivals, where kilts are not uncommon among the attendees - from $50 cotton "utility kilts" in a riot of colors to Pipe and Drum competitors' rigs costing in the thousands. Then there are galas where the full dress kit fits right in.
> Failing that, break out your kilt next St. Patrick's Day, and head to the bar ! You'll be glad you did, and feel perfectly natural after the first 15 minutes. It is in your Official Clan Tartan (USAF), so you have every right to wear it.
> 
> Again, it is just a question of venue - it's not like something I wear to a diner, or Home Depot (although I have done both)


With the amount of money I have invested in this garment (as I recall it was a bit more than $350) I would like to get some constructive use out of it. As to competing in anything like "The Highland Games," 20 or 30 years back I might have been inclined to say, "I'm your man." However, given my age and present physical condition, these days I'm more inclined to explore the "local bar on St Paddy's Day" option. Thanks to both of you for your suggestions.


----------



## Old Road Dog

I have an acquaintance in Chicago who wears kilts all day, every day. He is a trade craftsman, and I admire his willingness to frequent Home Depot thusly attired. He gets kilts that are made for work wear. ..sort of a Carhartt-does- Scottish look. A bit off-topic, I admit.


----------



## Oldsarge

Old Road Dog said:


> I have an acquaintance in Chicago who wears kilts all day, every day. He is a trade craftsman, and I admire his willingness to frequent Home Depot thusly attired. He gets kilts that are made for work wear. ..sort of a Carhartt-does- Scottish look. A bit off-topic, I admit.


Odd as this may sound the largest supplier of workwear kilts is based in Signal Hill, California less than 20 minutes from where I used to live. That's how I ended up with three! 😁


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> With the amount of money I have invested in this garment (as I recall it was a bit more than $350) I would like to get some constructive use out of it. As to competing in anything like "The Highland Games," 20 or 30 years back I might have been inclined to say, "I'm your man." However, given my age and present physical condition, these days I'm more inclined to explore the "local bar on St Paddy's Day" option. Thanks to both of you for your suggestions.


That's an excellent plan. I think being in the company of a few other kilted men in a gathering might help you feel a bit less self-conscious perhaps. The first time I wore an Indian-style suit with the round-collar tunic-style jacket to an event in this country, I walked in feeling a bit self-conscious. It was a lovely charcoal grey wool, and I had a maroon, cream and blue paisley pocket square just showing a bit in my breast pocket. In fact, I was the only one wearing anything other than the standard western-style suit or sportcoat and tie, in that crowd. But I got so many compliments on the way the suit looked, I was quickly put at ease. It was bespoke, and fit me perfectly, so I think that helped as well.

Now have I worn it often? Not quite. But I have worn it enough times easily to justify the total cost. Here is the kicker: I had the suit run up for me back in 2011, when I was visiting Bombay -- my nephew took me to his tailor in King's Circle, and the fellow took measurements and did it in a few days, with hardly anything like multiple fittings. Handsome job, total cost: $50, although a zillion rupees, thanks to the great exchange rate with the Indian rupee. I've lost weight since then, so I'll probably have to take the trousers in a tad, but otherwise, it still fits me very well.


----------



## Color 8

Old Road Dog said:


> I have an acquaintance in Chicago who wears kilts all day, every day. He is a trade craftsman, and I admire his willingness to frequent Home Depot thusly attired. He gets kilts that are made for work wear. ..sort of a Carhartt-does- Scottish look. A bit off-topic, I admit.


That sounds like a "Utili-Kilt," the original company that started making workwear kilts about 20 years ago. I have a heavy canvas Utili-Kilt that I bought over 15 years ago. You see a lot of cheaper, lightweight cotton imitations at Celtic Festivals now, but they were the first ones I remember seeing.


----------



## drpeter

I wonder if kilt materials are as varied as other clothes. Are there pinstripe kilts, for instance? Or ones made out of suede or calf? A nice dark burgundy leather kilt would look pretty snappy, don't you think? The traditionalists would probably be horrified. 

Must one always wear the classic blue kilt jacket, plus sporran, dirk, argyle stockings, etc., with the kilt, or is that only for formal occasions?


----------



## drpeter

Here is a photograph of British Gurkha Brigade soldiers. One of them is wearing what the Scots call "trews" (trousers). For many years, the only "de-kilted" Scots regiment, wearing tartan trews was the 72nd Highlanders -- or so I've read.

I've mentioned that when I did national service with a paramilitary outfit in India in the sixties, my instructors were from one of the seven Indian Gurkha regiments. They were wonderful people, very decent, and amazingly tough. Best soldiers in the world, by many accounts. To this day, Indian and British Army recruiters go to Nepal together to select new recruits for the regiments of each country. A nice tradition. To remember them, I have two Gurkha neckties, Gurkha field trousers with a flap front and side buckles, a Gurkha slouch hat, a regimental cap badge -- and, best of all, a _kukri_, the fabulous and deadly knife they carry. One of these days, I will pick up a Gurkha hat. The late Indian Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw, who was commissioned into the 8th Gurkha Rifles, famously said: "If a man says he has no fear, he is either lying, or he is a Gurkha."


----------



## Oldsarge

drpeter said:


> I wonder if kilt materials are as varied as other clothes. Are there pinstripe kilts, for instance? Or ones made out of suede or calf? A nice dark burgundy leather kilt would look pretty snappy, don't you think? The traditionalists would probably be horrified.
> 
> Must one always wear the classic blue kilt jacket, plus sporran, dirk, argyle stockings, etc., with the kilt, or is that only for formal occasions?


To the best of my Italian understanding the full kit is only for formal occasions. The sporran, though, is for whatever you would normally put in pockets so I suspect it's required.


----------



## Oldsarge

drpeter said:


> Here is a photograph of British Gurkha Brigade soldiers. One of them is wearing what the Scots call "trews" (trousers). For many years, the only "de-kilted" Scots regiment, wearing tartan trews was the 72nd Highlanders -- or so I've read.
> 
> I've mentioned that when I did national service with a paramilitary outfit in India in the sixties, my instructors were from one of the seven Indian Gurkha regiments. They were wonderful people, very decent, and amazingly tough. Best soldiers in the world, by many accounts. To this day, Indian and British Army recruiters go to Nepal together to select new recruits for the regiments of each country. A nice tradition. To remember them, I have two Gurkha neckties, Gurkha field trousers with a flap front and side buckles, a Gurkha slouch hat, a regimental cap badge -- and, best of all, a _kukri_, the fabulous and deadly knife they carry. One of these days, I will pick up a Gurkha hat. The late Indian Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw, who was commissioned into the 8th Gurkha Rifles, famously said: "If a man says he has not fear, he is either lying, or he is a Gurkha."
> 
> View attachment 42183


_Aayo, Gurkhali!_


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> _Aye, Gurkhali!_


Yes!! Just a minor correction with the war cry, the first word is _Ayo_ (or _Aayo_ with an elongation of the first syllable). The full phrase means The Gurkhas have arrived! (or The Gurkhas are here!).

During WW2, Hitler is said to have declared: "If I had a battalion of Gurkhas, I would conquer the whole world." We are lucky he didn't get that battalion, LOL.


----------



## Oldsarge

drpeter said:


> Yes!! Just a minor correction with the war cry, the first word is _Ayo_ (or _Aayo_ with an elongation of the first syllable). The full phrase means The Gurkhas have arrived! (or The Gurkhas are here!).
> 
> During WW2, Hitler is said to have declared: "If I had a battalion of Gurkhas, I would conquer the whole world." We are lucky he didn't get that battalion, LOL.


Oh. Okay, I'll fix it.


----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

drpeter said:


> I wonder if kilt materials are as varied as other clothes. Are there pinstripe kilts, for instance? Or ones made out of suede or calf? A nice dark burgundy leather kilt would look pretty snappy, don't you think? The traditionalists would probably be horrified.
> 
> Must one always wear the classic blue kilt jacket, plus sporran, dirk, argyle stockings, etc., with the kilt, or is that only for formal occasions?


A kilt can technically be made of any material, with wool tartan being being the standard. I have seen kilts in canvas, cotton, leather, and latex, so there is essentially a kilt for just about every lifestyle choice on the market.

I am not sure what a classic blue kilt jacket is? There are many types of jackets made for kilt wear, virtually all made of wool. If one thinks of a kilt as trousers, one can see that there are any number of ways to wear a kilt as part of any ensemble ranging from casual to formal.

One can wear a kilt with brown brogues and a jumper without a jacket for a casual look. As the Highland games in Atlanta have been traditionally held in July, you can imagine why men strip down to a T-shirt and kilt to better manage the heat.

If you would like to see a wide range of casual kilt looks google "Prince Charles in kilt". The Duke of Rothsay is a prolific kilt wearer while visiting Scotland.

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

drpeter said:


> Here is a photograph of British Gurkha Brigade soldiers. One of them is wearing what the Scots call "trews" (trousers). For many years, the only "de-kilted" Scots regiment, wearing tartan trews was the 72nd Highlanders -- or so I've read.
> 
> I've mentioned that when I did national service with a paramilitary outfit in India in the sixties, my instructors were from one of the seven Indian Gurkha regiments. They were wonderful people, very decent, and amazingly tough. Best soldiers in the world, by many accounts. To this day, Indian and British Army recruiters go to Nepal together to select new recruits for the regiments of each country. A nice tradition. To remember them, I have two Gurkha neckties, Gurkha field trousers with a flap front and side buckles, a Gurkha slouch hat, a regimental cap badge -- and, best of all, a _kukri_, the fabulous and deadly knife they carry. One of these days, I will pick up a Gurkha hat. The late Indian Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw, who was commissioned into the 8th Gurkha Rifles, famously said: "If a man says he has no fear, he is either lying, or he is a Gurkha."
> 
> View attachment 42183


Our guard force at the US Consulate Dhahran was made up entirely of Ghurkhas led by an Irishman who was a retired regimental sergeant major.

I was with them when the big Nepalese earthquake struck and many lost family members while far from home working overseas.

A great group of men. Highly disciplined and capable.

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## eagle2250

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> A kilt can technically be made of any material, with wool tartan being being the standard. I have seen kilts in canvas, cotton, leather, and latex, so there is essentially a kilt for just about every lifestyle choice on the market.
> 
> I am not sure what a classic blue kilt jacket is? There are many types of jackets made for kilt wear, virtually all made of wool. If one thinks of a kilt as trousers, one can see that there are any number of ways to wear a kilt as part of any ensemble ranging from casual to formal.
> 
> One can wear a kilt with brown brogues and a jumper without a jacket for a casual look. As the Highland games in Atlanta have been traditionally held in July, you can imagine why men strip down to a T-shirt and kilt to better manage the heat.
> 
> If you would like to see a wide range of casual kilt looks google "Prince Charles in kilt". The Duke of Rothsay is a prolific kilt wearer while visiting Scotland.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR


I know I shouldn't, but I really have to ask...who would be wearing a "latex" kilt? Oh-my! :icon_scratch:


----------



## Peak and Pine

Forty posts and only one mentions Ralph Lauren. The OP should be beside himself. Except he's posted a few more times and also never mentioned Lauren. Sheesh.


----------



## Oldsarge

Well, I haven't seen any more 'Ralph's' myself so . . .


----------



## drpeter

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> All of our fua
> 
> Our guard force at the US Consulate Dhahran was made up entirely of Ghurkhas led by an Irishman who was a retired regimental sergeant major.
> 
> I was with them when the big Nepalese earthquake struck and many lost family members while far from home working overseas.
> 
> A great group of men. Highly disciplined and capable.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR


Yes, indeed. Many countries/colonies like Singapore and Hong Kong (now no longer a colony) had police units made up of Gurkhas. They have great discipline, skill and courage. When the British government refused to give Gurkhas citizenship in the UK, the entire country rose up as one and protested the ingratitude of HM Government. The laws were changed with alacrity, needless to say!


----------



## Peak and Pine

Oldsarge said:


> Well, I haven't seen any more 'Ralph's' myself so . . .


Perhaps I can be of assistance here...


----------



## Peak and Pine

A pop quiz will follow...










1. What is he holding? (Be specific.)
2. What's on the shirt placket?
3. Is that serape type thing (waist) part of the shirt?
4. Why is he wearing fire-proof gloves (with a puffer, the shell of which melts if exposed to high heat)
5. Is he in a barn (a tobacco barn)?
6. Is he wearing logo'ed sweat pants?
7. Expression. Why does he look goosed?
8. Am I wasting my time here when I should be digging grubs for grub tacos?


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Oldsarge

Peak and Pine said:


>


Now we're talking!


----------



## drpeter

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> Our guard force at the US Consulate Dhahran was made up entirely of Ghurkhas led by an Irishman who was a retired regimental sergeant major.
> 
> I was with them when the big Nepalese earthquake struck and many lost family members while far from home working overseas.
> 
> A great group of men. Highly disciplined and capable.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR


Here is a video clip from one of the annual Republic Day Parades in New Delhi. January 26, 1950 was when the Indian Constitution (lots of influence from our own American one!) came into effect and India became a Republic. This parade is one of the most colourful in the world because of the variety of regiments raised since 1768, and their traditions, colours and regimental decorations and insignia.

This clip shows part of the parade with a Gurkha Rifles marching contingent (usually 144 soldiers, 12 x 12 group, with a contingent commander, usually a commissioned officer, and two NCOs or officers). I love the tilted hats which are unique to the Gurkhas, with the exception of the Assam regiment. You can see Gurkha pipers with tartan and tigerskin in the band behind the soldiers.






I hope you enjoy the parade!


----------



## drpeter

And here is my old paramilitary outfit, the NCC! This is from the Republic Day Parade this year. There are contingents of Men and Women with bands for each. The distinctive red hackles on the cap badge is unique to the NCC. I love the plaid skirts the women in the band wear, swaying rather demurely from side to side as they march. Notice how young everyone is -- the NCC draws its members from schools and universities, and is a feeder unit into the Indian Officer Corps, produced by the Indian Military Academy in Dehra Dun, our West Point. India has the fourth largest standing army in the world, an all-volunteer army.


----------



## Oldsarge

Hmmm, I see a couple of turbans but no beards. The Sikhs don't participate?


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> Hmmm, I see a couple of turbans but no beards. The Sikhs don't participate?


LOL, the turbans indicate that they are Sikhs! Only Sikhs are allowed to wear the Sikh turban -- but keep in mind that the regiments have a variety of headdresses from hats to berets to grenadier chapeaus, to turbans with cloth fans. The Sikhs do participate, as do every religious group. The beards have probably not yet grown to a noticeable extent, or else the camera did not pick them up very clearly.

The Indian Army also has a Sikh regiment where all the soldiers are Sikhs. Officers in the Indian regiments can be from anywhere in India, since officers are assigned to regiments without regard for ethnic membership. The British raised regiments based on ethnicity -- Sikhs, Gurkhas, Jats, Dogras -- because they thought that it would lead to greater cohesion and trust among soldiers within a regiment. India has an incredible variety of ethnic and religious groups, 29 official languages and 6000 dialects. In the 1971 war with Pakistan that led to the creation of Bangladesh, the four Commanding Generals in the four major theatres were a Parsi as Army Chief of Staff, two Sikhs, a Hindu and a Jew! The Parsi General ( a descendant of Persian Zoroastrians who came to India aeons ago) was Sam Manekshaw, a WWII veteran who became independent India's first Field Marshal.


----------



## Oldsarge

Ah, so they weren't old enough to grow beards. That makes perfect sense.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Momentarily interrupting kilts to bring you a little Ralph...










On second thought, maybe back to kilts. (Ralph may have been drinking when he came up with that.)


----------



## Peak and Pine

Yes. Yes he was...


----------



## Oldsarge

Well, there are days in the life of every entrepreneur when a stiff drink makes everything seem clearerearear . . .


----------



## Peak and Pine

Please, stop...


----------



## Peak and Pine

Seriously, bring this to an end...


----------



## Peak and Pine

On my knees here, begging...


----------



## Peak and Pine

Ahhhhh......


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Love that with three caveats; the suit needs to be less skinny and I'd take one pattern out (my choice with be to go with a solid shirt). Also, if you're going to do the "watch in breast pocket with watch fob handing over the lapel" thing, then at least forgo the pocket square as, besides the aesthetic clutter, functionally, pulling that watch out would bring the PS out with it.


----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> Momentarily interrupting kilts to bring you a little Ralph...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On second thought, maybe back to kilts. (Ralph may have been drinking when he came up with that.)


I'm really not sure why, perhaps it's this seemingly interminable self isolation, but that sartorial image from Hell has a certain appeal to it? :icon_scratch: Maybe it's just time for my medication! LOL.


----------



## Peak and Pine

OMG, it's baaaaack. With a Scottish twist.


----------



## Oldsarge

This is a little hard to take before ten a.m. I'm not even done with my second cup of coffee!


----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> Seriously, bring this to an end...


That cardigan is indeed sheep's butt ugly, for sure!


----------



## eagle2250

Oldsarge said:


> This is a little hard to take before ten a.m. I'm not even done with my second cup of coffee!


Good lawd man, I'm working on the third pot. I tend to drink mopre Joe when I'm doing more reading. Not sure if it's being on house arrest or perhaps a bit of a caffeine overdose, but i'm feeling just a little jittery! LOL.


----------



## Oldsarge

eagle2250 said:


> Good lawd man, I'm working on the third pot. I tend to drink mopre Joe when I'm doing more reading. Not sure if it's being on house arrest or perhaps a bit of a caffeine overdose, but i'm feeling just a little jittery! LOL.


Well, there is that study that determined that you had to drink at least 4 cups to get the full health benefits. I rarely manage more than two.


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


>


That is quite the convenient campaign desk, for sure. Though I am not sure how comfortable that stool will prove to be? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

Peak and Pine said:


>


I love the aesthetic of campaign furniture. I have several items in my home.

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## Oldsarge

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> I love the aesthetic of campaign furniture. I have several items in my home.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR


I have two books on how to build such and another on its history. How many realize that those pieces were built largely for the aristocratic senior officers in the British Army by the likes of Chippendale? They are mostly mahogany and were damned expensive even back in their heyday.


----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

Oldsarge said:


> I have two books on how to build such and another on its history. How many realize that those pieces were built largely for the aristocratic senior officers in the British Army by the likes of Chippendale? They are mostly mahogany and were damned expensive even back in their heyday.


All of what I have seen first hand is made of dense rosewood, which is very attractive and durable. Most everything seen new in the US market is made in India. I tend to favor the items I had made in Pakistan because they do a nice brass inlay.

My personal inventory includes 2 gujeraat chairs, 4 folding Safari chairs, a folding campaign table, a campaign bar, and two camp stools. I am planning one hell of a tailgate when I break all this stuff out at the beginning of next hunting season. I need a LandRover!

Cottars tented camp safaris in the Maasai Mara really have the tented camp aesthetic down. My daughter went to boarding school with their daughter and we were fortunate enough to Safari with them twice.

https://cottars.com/
Cheers,

BSR


----------



## Oldsarge

Tented camps in Kenya for game viewing and Tanzania for hunting are the sort of things dreams are made of. They're also terribly expensive. About the only safari I can think of that's more lux would be a Robosrail Blue Train bird shooting expedition. That can cost as much as a 21 day elephant trip! Needless to say, my chances of ever going that route range from nil to less than that. I'll go looking for some photos and post them in the Shooting Thread. Talk about shock and awe . . .


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


>


Great stuff! It also reminds me of a suitcase I saw in a Frank Sinatra film. I think the film was _The_ _Tender Trap_, but I am not certain. The case opened sideways, with the hinges on the left side of the case. When fully opened, the lid was vertical and inside the lid there was a hanger on which a suit or sports jacket would fit perfectly, The clothing could then be secured with a strap that ran crosswise. I have looked for one of these cases in vain, online and in thrift shops. Someday one might turn up. Can't have been very popular, I suspect.


----------



## drpeter

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> All of what I have seen first hand is made of dense rosewood, which is very attractive and durable. Most everything seen new in the US market is made in India. I tend to favor the items I had made in Pakistan because they do a nice brass inlay.
> 
> My personal inventory includes 2 gujeraat chairs, 4 folding Safari chairs, a folding campaign table, a campaign bar, and two camp stools. I am planning one hell of a tailgate when I break all this stuff out at the beginning of next hunting season. I need a LandRover!
> 
> Cottars tented camp safaris in the Maasai Mara really have the tented camp aesthetic down. My daughter went to boarding school with their daughter and we were fortunate enough to Safari with them twice.
> 
> https://cottars.com/
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR


@bsr, we are ready to go on a campaign in the Northwest Frontier of India. I'll bring the Lee Enfield .303 rifles and maybe a Bren or two, to accompany all this glorious campaign furniture. Together, we can subdue those uppity Pathan tribesmen, what?

Where I grew up in Kerala, India, the hills were covered with teak and rosewood forests and the wood was inexpensive. All of the furniture for the house my father built in 1963 was constructed by skilled carpenters commissioned for the purpose. This too was inexpensive in India in those days, since there were plenty of people in the skilled (caste-based) professions. They are both gorgeous woods, and teak is one of the hardest woods one can find anywhere in the world.


----------



## Oldsarge

drpeter said:


> @bsr, we are ready to go on a campaign in the Northwest Frontier of India. I'll bring the Lee Enfield .303 rifles and maybe a Bren or two, to accompany all this glorious campaign furniture. Together, we can subdue those uppity Pathan tribesmen, what?
> 
> Where I grew up in Kerala, India, the hills were covered with teak and rosewood forests and the wood was inexpensive. All of the furniture for the house my father built in 1963 was constructed by skilled carpenters commissioned for the purpose. This too was inexpensive in India in those days, since there were plenty of people in the skilled (caste-based) professions. They are both gorgeous woods, and teak is one of the hardest woods one can find anywhere in the world.


It is, indeed. When I was taking woodworking classes we were warned that if we planned on working in teak, we'd better invest in carbide tipped blades and bring them with us when we came to class because they blunted the school tools so quickly. AFAICT the only wood harder is Ironwood from the US Southwest. You don't work that stuff, you machine it!


----------



## xcubbies

The camp furniture is very attractive, but fairly impractical. Most of it is not well made, though it is possible to have it replicated by a competent carpenter. In Islamabad there are several shops that sell this type of furniture, though for the most part the quality is not there. If you ever get to Peshawar, Pakistan Younas Muhammad does impressive custom work, using well seasoned wood and leather. And he's not relatively expensive, especially when considering the quality.


----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

xcubbies said:


> The camp furniture is very attractive, but fairly impractical. Most of it is not well made, though it is possible to have it replicated by a competent carpenter. In Islamabad there are several shops that sell this type of furniture, though for the most part the quality is not there. If you ever get to Peshawar, Pakistan Younas Muhammad does impressive custom work, using well seasoned wood and leather. And he's not relatively expensive, especially when considering the quality.


I would say that campaign furniture is very practical for specific uses. I use mine for hunting, tailgating, and camping, all of which are related in some small way to their original design purpose. I have my campaign table and gujerat chairs in my living room. The chairs are mostly for show, but the table serves its function as a table as well as any other I have.

As for quality, I lived in Karachi for 2 years and the quality there for rosewood furniture was, as to be expected, the full range from junk to extremely high quality. Price was commensurate with quality. I commissioned all my pieces and the quality is excellent. The problem I has with all my outfitters was getting them to make two things exactly the same. Much of this challenge was due to the hand made nature of items. Some of it was due to a lack of quality control and attention to detail. It was frustrating.

I found Wood Heritage in Islamabad did a good job taking antiques and repurposing them to new use. The janky look of the items is part of their charm. I have a console bookcase they made from recycled rosewood. At $700, it was a steal and it weighs close to 500lbs.

As for Pesh, not for me. Too dangerous by far for a person in my former line of work. I'll take your word for the quality of Mr. Younas. 

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## drpeter

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> I would say that campaign furniture is very practical for specific uses. I use mine for hunting, tailgating, and camping, all of which are related in some small way to their original design purpose. I have my campaign table and gujerat chairs in my living room. The chairs are mostly for show, but the table serves its function as a table as well as any other I have.
> 
> As for quality, I lived in Karachi for 2 years and the quality there for rosewood furniture was, as to be expected, the full range from junk to extremely high quality. Price was commensurate with quality. I commissioned all my pieces and the quality is excellent. The problem I has with all my outfitters was getting them to make two things exactly the same. Much of this challenge was due to the hand made nature of items. Some of it was due to a lack of quality control and attention to detail. It was frustrating.
> 
> I found Wood Heritage in Islamabad did a good job taking antiques and repurposing them to new use. The janky look of the items is part of their charm. I have a console bookcase they made from recycled rosewood. At $700, it was a steal and it weighs close to 500lbs.
> 
> As for Pesh, not for me. Too dangerous by far for a person in my former line of work. I'll take your word for the quality of Mr. Younas.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR


And I will not ask @bsr what that former line of country was. Because as they say, if he tells me, then he will have to kill me, I'm sure...


----------



## Oldsarge

drpeter said:


> And I will not ask @bsr what that former line of country was. Because as they say, if he tells me, then he will have to kill me, I'm sure...


He isn't the only one. Though my security clearance lapsed upon my retirement over twenty years ago, some things are just best not discussed.


----------



## xcubbies

drpeter said:


> @bsr, we are ready to go on a campaign in the Northwest Frontier of India. I'll bring the Lee Enfield .303 rifles and maybe a Bren or two, to accompany all this glorious campaign furniture. Together, we can subdue those uppity Pathan tribesmen, what?
> 
> Where I grew up in Kerala, India, the hills were covered with teak and rosewood forests and the wood was inexpensive. All of the furniture for the house my father built in 1963 was constructed by skilled carpenters commissioned for the purpose. This too was inexpensive in India in those days, since there were plenty of people in the skilled (caste-based) professions. They are both gorgeous woods, and teak is one of the hardest woods one can find anywhere in the world.


Today you'll need something more lethal than the Lee Enfield to have a chance. Never subdue the Pathan fighters.


----------



## drpeter

xcubbies said:


> Today you'll need something more lethal than the Lee Enfield to have a chance. Never subdue the Pathan fighters.


Of course, they now probably have RPGLs and mortars! I was simply hearkening back to an early 20th century fantasy...It's true that all the mighty militaries of the world have never been able to subdue those Pathans. The Great Game was actually The Great Failure.


----------



## xcubbies

Don't know how many of you recall the original Banana Republic catalogs, but a large proportion of their goods aspired to evoke colonial British gear. It was very attractive, but I could never bring myself to purchase any of it since it was not appreciated in Africa where it was an unfriendly reminder of times past. Still I admired it.

I was working in a very remote of Somalia in the early 1980s and a colleague showed up in one of Banana Republic's Bush Coats, with all the pockets and the belt. Pukka, maybe, but the washing instructions adamantly instructed 'Dry Clean Only.' I doubt there was even one dry cleaner in the capital, Mogadishu, at the time, a full day's drive away. In that environment it was difficult enough to stay clean. Of course the jacket did not fair well in the heat and dust. Just one of those things.


----------



## Yates

xcubbies said:


> Don't know how many of you recall the original Banana Republic catalogs, but a large proportion of their goods aspired to evoke colonial British gear. It was very attractive, but I could never bring myself to purchase any of it since it was not appreciated in Africa where it was an unfriendly reminder of times past. Still I admired it.
> 
> I was working in a very remote of Somalia in the early 1980s and a colleague showed up in one of Banana Republic's Bush Coats, with all the pockets and the belt. Pukka, maybe, but the washing instructions adamantly instructed 'Dry Clean Only.' I doubt there was even one dry cleaner in the capital, Mogadishu, at the time, a full day's drive away. In that environment it was difficult enough to stay clean. Of course the jacket did not fair well in the heat and dust. Just one of those things.


When their retail stores mushroomed in mid-market malls that was the beginning of the end of that vision of the store. Khaki and hunter green as far as the eye could see, and more than a little camp.

Out of curiosity, what did you wear on that job that held up?


----------



## xcubbies

Yates said:


> When their retail stores mushroomed in mid-market malls that was the beginning of the end of that vision of the store. Khaki and hunter green as far as the eye could see, and more than a little camp.
> 
> Out of curiosity, what did you wear on that job that held up?


My bush wardrobe was not all that different from what I wear now. Mostly LL Bean khakis, button-down shirts, and Clark desert boots. I had some khaki shorts made up, modeled on some great shorts I had picked up in Sri Lanka back in the 70s. This was before khaki shorts could be found in just about any clothing store. I asked my local staff whether the Somalis would be upset with me wearing shorts. They assured me that it was okay for a foreigner to wear them, but not a local. Before the rains it would get up to 125F, too hot for going outside in long trousers. Never got a comment or a complaint. At least nothing said that I understood. Later, in Pakistan I'd wear shorts on the golf course, but never beyond that.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Lauren on ludes...










Someone with a bigger screen than this cell I hold should blow this up and tell me what exactly is being depicted on the cloth.


----------



## Oldsarge

All I can make out is motorcycles. I dunno whatheheck the other stuff is.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Let'sMakeAmericaRalphAgain...








.

...and the steps are marble didja hear me not faux marbre actual marble, that's my Ralph. Ask me how much I admire this guy.


----------



## Oldsarge

Peak and Pine said:


> Let'sMakeAmericaRalphAgain...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> .
> 
> ...and the steps are marble didja hear me not faux marbre actual marble, that's my Ralph. Ask me how much I admire this guy.


I actually have that outfit. I rather like it, even though I lack the marble stairs to pose on.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Oldsarge said:


> I actually have that outfit. I rather like it, even though I lack the marble stairs to pose on.


Had to take down my original reply here as it didn't read as gigly as I'd planned. Sorry, Sarge. Bet you look real good in yours, me not so bad in mine.


----------



## 215339

Peak and Pine said:


> Please, stop...


Hmm, I enjoy this patchwork.


----------



## London380sl

I also have that blazer but isn't that blazer that Ralph is wearing a little short?


----------



## London380sl

delicious_scent said:


> Hmm, I enjoy this patchwork.


I also thought it wasn't too bad a design as an overcoat. Didn't care for it as a cardigan or sports coat.


----------



## 215339

London380sl said:


> I also thought it wasn't too bad a design as an overcoat. Didn't care for it as a cardigan or sports coat.


Agreed. The cardigan simply looks erratic and jarring, and frankly scary.

Sports coat I find alright, but not great.


----------



## 215339

London380sl said:


> I also thought it wasn't too bad a design as an overcoat. Didn't care for it as a cardigan or sports coat.


Another thing I noticed is this is probably one area where OTR is superior to bespoke or MTM. The designer makes a big difference.

A tailor would probably smack you if you asked them to make a patchwork garment, and they likely couldn't come up with the same effect.


----------



## Oldsarge

delicious_scent said:


> Hmm, I enjoy this patchwork.


I find the concept of a tweed trench coat confusing. Oddly attractive, but confusing.


----------



## 215339

Oldsarge said:


> I find the concept of a tweed trench coat confusing. Oddly attractive, but confusing.


Those are generally some of my favourite things!


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Fading Fast

From 1987.


----------



## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> From 1987.
> View attachment 42595


I get mine from Russell's.


----------



## peterc

I dream about the Mansion circa 1987. I thought I was in Heaven - or at least an extra in Brideshead Revisted.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 42630


Great jacket, but a decidedly ugly and misshapen knot, for sure.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Great jacket, but a decidedly ugly and misshapen knot, for sure.


I agree, but it seems, based on the text, that was the point. I guess it was an attempt at some sprezzatura from Ralph.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> I agree, but it seems, based on the text, that was the point. I guess it was an attempt at some sprezzatura from Ralph.


I'm going to get a beating for saying this herein, but Ralph didn't always get it right as he pushed brain farts such as that knot on his bedazeled fan base. Remember those huge Polo Ponies embroidered of some of his shirts? LOL.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Huge polo ponies aside, I understand and like the knot. Here's the New England take on this. Folks of my age found our daddies teaching us their knot, the full Windsor, huge on a 15 year-old. Then came 1960 and Jack Kennedy. Wow and oooo to us young Libs. Two things we borrowed: his hair cut and his tie knot. We even called it the Kennedy knot. Quickly done on purpose, wrap it under once, then up and down through the front, pull tight and wear slightly askew. Dimple maybe, but only if it appeared by chance. In full disclosure, I never heard of a dimple until I visited this place.


----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> Huge polo ponies aside, I understand and like the knot. Here's the New England take on this. Folks of my age found our daddies teaching us their knot, the full Windsor, huge on a 15 year-old. Then came 1960 and Jack Kennedy. Wow and oooo to us young Libs. Two things we borrowed: his hair cut and his tie knot. We even called it the Kennedy knot. Quickly done on purpose, wrap it under once, then up and down through the front, pull tight and wear slightly askew. Dimple maybe, but only if it appeared by chance. In full disclosure, I never heard of a dimple until I visited this place.


Speaking of Presidential haircuts we attempt to emulate, my mentor in such regard would have to be Ike. Based on a look at my avatar, how am I doing? LOL.


----------



## Peak and Pine

The whole purpose of the ad posted is to show the knot. Not the jacket. Recall that Ralph began his career making ties, and selling them door-to-door, tho the doors were Saks and Bloomingdales. I defer to him.


----------



## Peak and Pine

eagle2250 said:


> Speaking of Presidential haircuts we attempt to emulate, my mentor in such regard would have to be Ike. Based on a look at my avatar, how am I doing? LOL.


I picture you as a Jerry Ford. Didn't you both do buzz cuts? (May be confusing this with John Glenn.)


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I'm going to get a beating for saying this herein, but Ralph didn't always get it right as he pushed brain farts such as that knot on his bedazeled fan base. Remember those huge Polo Ponies embroidered of some of his shirts? LOL.


I agree. We have a close friend who worked in design at Ralph for years, years ago. While the Polo "brand" is, as we know, American Heritage (no, I have no intention of defining or expanding on that as, with "trad," we all have our views of what it means  ), it is still a "fashion" house.

I only learned this from her, but that means that it puts out a "collection" each season (classically four times a year plus, maybe, "cruise" wear, but it's more flexible today) and is viewed as a company driving new designs, trends, etc.

So, while Ralph plays in a particularly corner of the clothing sandbox, his business model is fundamentally different than the old Brooks or Press model of a slow evolution of a core clothing construct. This is why, my friend said, you see so many "new" things and, sometimes, quirky-to-bizarre takes on the classic look. (I live about eight blocks from the Madison Avenue flagship store and some of the stuff in Polo's many window displays can be really out there.)

To be honest, I don't fully understand the fashion business - like the "collections" that are put out but aren't really clothes that are produce to sell, except as one-offs - but her point was that Polo, as a fashion house, is not what Brooks used to be and is not trying to be.


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Old Road Dog

If you are wearing anything other than the four-in-hand knot shown in that photo, you probably have stumbled into the wrong forum. I think there is a "Fashion" forum to visit, but I don't know....never been there.


----------



## Old Road Dog

There are many houses of worship in NYC, the Polo mansion among them


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Old Road Dog

Ralph was never better than than during the early 80's. His creativity and involvement was evident and the company was strong financially. Polo was the top of the mountain in men's good taste and Italy was still home to mostly gigilo clothing. The ensemble above typifies the look.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Old Road Dog said:


> *Polo was the top of the mountain in men's good taste and Italy was still home to mostly gigilo clothing.* The ensemble above typifies the look.


You've earned yourself a follower. Not dark alleys, just here.

To continue...


----------



## Old Road Dog

Thank you sir! I'm honored. The photo above is new to me. Don't know the vintage , but I admire Ralph for his nod to his own tradition. I don't know that I would have the balls to wear my old PRL clothing (if I still had it). About 1980-ish I had nothing in my wardrobe that was not Polo. I then went to work for a POLO licensee and did that for about ten years. Best years of my life.


----------



## Oldsarge

My affection for Ralph is due to his collection of what appear to be an honest appreciation of British Countryside clothing. I share that appreciation. Frankly, I'm unfamiliar with his other lines and just as content to stay that way. I suspect that he and I would happily share adjoining manor houses in, say, Cornwall.


----------



## Peak and Pine

^
What about a condo in Queens? Or a time-share in Boca? O never mind, only here to point out something in the pic of Ralph I posted just above and forgot. He's wearing a 6x2 double breasted number, a piece most wear with only one button done up, the middle one. He's also buttoned only one, but, yikes, it's the bottom one. My man Ralph. Go figure.


----------



## Old Road Dog

All of the Polo db's from that era were six-on-one to button, that one being the bottom button.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Old Road Dog said:


> All of the Polo db's from that era were six-on-one to button, that one being the bottom button.


If you look again you'll see the bottom two buttons go straight up. See how they align with the stripe of the jacket. This seems to connote they can be buttoned, creating a six on two.

.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

xcubbies said:


> Don't know how many of you recall the original Banana Republic catalogs, but a large proportion of their goods aspired to evoke colonial British gear. It was very attractive, but I could never bring myself to purchase any of it since it was not appreciated in Africa where it was an unfriendly reminder of times past. Still I admired it.
> 
> I was working in a very remote of Somalia in the early 1980s and a colleague showed up in one of Banana Republic's Bush Coats, with all the pockets and the belt. Pukka, maybe, but the washing instructions adamantly instructed 'Dry Clean Only.' I doubt there was even one dry cleaner in the capital, Mogadishu, at the time, a full day's drive away. In that environment it was difficult enough to stay clean. Of course the jacket did not fair well in the heat and dust. Just one of those things.


Love this! I don't think I have seen or heard the term Bush Coat in years. Old timers wore those things in India back in the sixties, they were made of heavy cotton drill cloth and worn like a shirt jacket over a singlet or T shirt. And to see the term _pukka_ (meaning ripe in Urdu and Hindi as well as genuine in colonial slang, as in _pukka sahib_) in the same post is really extraordinary.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 42745


Nice design....can't help but note that the "cut of that jib" is strongly reminiscent of the AE McAllister, in a walnut hue. Hmmn? :icon_scratch:


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 42687


Just personal preference, but I find two sets of lapels in the same three-piece suit a bit much, especially with thicker tweed cloth...But to each his own, I know it's a choice made by many.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Nice design....can't help but note that the "cut of that jib" is strongly reminiscent of the AE McAllister, in a walnut hue. Hmmn? :icon_scratch:


I was equally impressed with the fact that the advertising team took something we are all familiar with - something some might even say was mundane - and made it feel rich and special and appealing.



drpeter said:


> Just personal preference, but I find two sets of lapels in the same three-piece suit a bit much, especially with thicker tweed cloth...But to each his own, I know it's a choice made by many.


I hear ya. I did an MTM three-piece Tweed about a decade ago and debated lapel or not on the vest. I went with a lapel on the vest because I thought I might wear the vest separately (I've never once done that) and I thought it gave the suit more of a vintage look (maybe, I don't really know). That said, I like it and would do it again, but would be equally open to trying the vest without a lapel. Unfortunately, with current trends in clothing, I don't know that I'll ever have the need for another MTM suit.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> I'm going to get a beating for saying this herein, but Ralph didn't always get it right as he pushed brain farts such as that knot on his bedazeled fan base. Remember those huge Polo Ponies embroidered of some of his shirts? LOL.


I'm likely going to get hammered for this, too, but I remember when Ralph Lauren tried to prevent the US Polo Association from using even the word Polo or the logo with a polo player as a trademark in some of the products they put out. The courts have gone back and forth on this dispute for years. And in the latest iteration, around 2015, I think, RL seems to have won.

Outside of RL and the BB polo shirt, the word is almost exclusively related to the game and that game was invented by the Persians in antiquity, who eventually brought it to India. The British then took up the game and it became associated with the upper classes and royalty. I find the attempt to trademark the name of a game rather high-handed, whatever the merits of the man or the clothing. To illustrate my discomfort with this line of thinking, suppose I were to create a line of clothing with the name Basketball. I design a logo that shows a basketball player in action about to score a basket. Then, assuming the courts will allow me to get away with it, I file a lawsuit against the NBA whenever it creates any sort of logo with a basketball player remotely like my logo. Would that be _fair _on my part, whatever the legal merits of the lawsuit (or lack thereof) might be?

There's a mildly odious air, a slight whiff of cultural _expropriation_ (loosely construed, and used because I do not want to confuse this issue with cultural appropriation in the arts and literature), in the act of taking what is in the public domain and privatising it. Some years ago an Indian named Bikram Chaudhuri tried to patent the term Yoga, so that only he and his associates, practitioners of something called Bikram Yoga, could _ever_ use the term! Such effrontery! The attempt was rightly defeated in court. Yoga and every use of the term, should be free and open to everyone everywhere. It's an ancient system for maintaining health. No single human being or corporation should be permitted to have exclusive rights to the word. I think the same standards should apply to Ralph Lauren. We'll see how the issue fares in the coming years.


----------



## xcubbies

I don't know, but I tend to instinctively reject advertisements that offer me a false sense of unique importance and a link to the British aristocracy. I like nice things, like a good Shetland sweater or a well made leather belt and wallet. But I don't need the backstory and resent the merchant who thinks he/she can woo me with handsome models, wood paneling or a Montana panorama.


----------



## drpeter

xcubbies said:


> I don't know, but I tend to instinctively reject advertisements that offer me a false sense of unique importance and a link to the British aristocracy. I like nice things, like a good Shetland sweater or a well made leather belt and wallet. But I don't need the backstory and resent the merchant who thinks he/she can woo me with handsome models, wood paneling or a Montana panorama.


I agree whole-heartedly. When I think of a product I really love, say Harris Tweed, or beautifully lacquered Japanese bento boxes, I think of their history, read about it, admire the craftsmanship, materials and timelessness of the products, and acquire one or more examples -- almost too many Harris Tweeds, but alas, too few bento boxes! I too do not need adverts that show models with a contrived pastiche of objects surrounding them in order to be persuaded of the value of these objects. I prefer to arrive at my judgments of value on my own, rather than through advertising.


----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

As a vintage collector, I pass on most RL, because a lot of it is middle of the road basic fare. I have seen hundreds of RL blue blazers on vintage racks. I could make a rope to the moon and back with RL ties.

But I respect the line in that it can provide a basic, timeless, wardrobe to the majority of men for reasonable money. There are some outlier pieces I would love to own, but those are scarce and snapped up quickly.

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

drpeter said:


> Love this! I don't think I have seen or heard the term Bush Coat in years. Old timers wore those things in India back in the sixties, they were made of heavy cotton drill cloth and worn like a shirt jacket over a singlet or T shirt. And to see the term _pukka_ (meaning ripe in Urdu and Hindi as well as genuine in colonial slang, as in _pukka sahib_) in the same post is really extraordinary.


Here is a vintage Willis & Geiger I picked up this week.


----------



## Oldsarge

For the non-collector on a budget, I strongly recommend tagsafari.com as a source of bush coats/jackets. Made in Africa, by Africans, for Africa (and other tropical climes).


----------



## drpeter

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> Here is a vintage Willis & Geiger I picked up this week.
> 
> View attachment 42754


You look splendid in that bush coat, @bsr, and ready for the safari -- well, not too many places to go with the virus lockdown!

I do have a very similar Willis & Geiger coat which I picked up at the Lands' End outlet in Madison, Wisc, almost 25 years ago. I think it is in a paler shade of khaki. (It's hard to tell from the picture what the exact shade of your coat is). I also have an Indian-made olive green safari jacket that was put out by Orvis -- it has a belt made out of the same cloth, plus the usual things, like four pockets, etc.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Very hard to keep a thread on track these days. I will keep trying....


----------



## ran23

Nice Safari Jackets there Sarge. I practically live in my French Chore Jacket from Banana Republic.


----------



## Fading Fast

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> Here is a vintage Willis & Geiger I picked up this week.
> 
> View attachment 42754


I always love the things that show up in the background of your pics. Very cool looking bookcases today, for example.


----------



## Oldsarge

ran23 said:


> Nice Safari Jackets there Sarge. I practically live in my French Chore Jacket from Banana Republic.


I have several. One from Abercrombie & Fitch, one from Willis & Geiger and somewhere around here I THINK I have one from TAG. Just where that last one might be is a mystery.


----------



## xcubbies

Peak and Pine said:


> Very hard to keep a thread on track these days. I will keep trying....
> 
> View attachment 42757


As we say in Maine, Yee ha!


----------



## xcubbies

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> Here is a vintage Willis & Geiger I picked up this week.
> 
> View attachment 42754


Cool jacket, but I'd be concerned of tsetse flies taking up residence in your beard.


----------



## xcubbies

Oldsarge said:


> For the non-collector on a budget, I strongly recommend tagsafari.com as a source of bush coats/jackets. Made in Africa, by Africans, for Africa (and other tropical climes).


Not aware of that brand, Sarge, but I've found all safari wear made in Africa to be very lightweight. At least in Kenya.


----------



## Oldsarge

xcubbies said:


> Not aware of that brand, Sarge, but I've found all safari wear made in Africa to be very lightweight. At least in Kenya.


TAG is made in Zimbabwe and it's light but not gauzy.


----------



## xcubbies

Oldsarge said:


> TAG is made in Zimbabwe and it's light but not gauzy.


Interesting. When I first went to Zimbabwe, circa 1985, I thought I would be able to find some good bush wear given the number of white farmers that were still around then. I was surprised to find that they all wore polyester short shorts and polyester knee socks. Fortunately there was still Banana Republic (ha, ha, ha).


----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

xcubbies said:


> Cool jacket, but I'd be concerned of tsetse flies taking up residence in your beard.


I once ventured into the Tsetse infested area of Tanzania while in the Mara, for about 15 min, with no ill effect!

Cheers,
BSR


----------



## Oldsarge

Tsetse flies are vicious and very tough. I ran into them in Zim. Fortunately, that wasn't a sleeping sickness area but that didn't stop the flies from trying to eat us. A fly would land on you, you'd slap it. It would fall to the floor of the safari car, shake its head, say, "Oh yeah?" and fly up and bite you again. The PH said that the only way to deal with them was to catch it, take its head in between the thumb and fingers of one hand and the body with the other and pull it in half. To be absolutely sure, you threw the head out one side and the body out the other.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## 215339

Oldsarge said:


> For the non-collector on a budget, I strongly recommend tagsafari.com as a source of bush coats/jackets. Made in Africa, by Africans, for Africa (and other tropical climes).


The light green jacket has been very versatile for me.

I've worn it in summer on a camping trip with a hoodie underneath for warmth.

I've worn it to class with an OCBD underneath and khakis.

I've worn it as a mid-layer under an overcoat.


----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

Fading Fast said:


> I always love the things that show up in the background of your pics. Very cool looking bookcases today, for example.


You are very kind. Thank you.

That book case was custom made from reclaimed rosewood for an officer I served with in Pakistan. He refused delivery, saying that the completed piece was too large to fit in his farmhouse in Virginia. It is two separate pieces, top and bottom and weighs over 500lbs. I picked it off him for $600. A bargain.

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## Fading Fast

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> You are very kind. Thank you.
> 
> That book case was custom made from reclaimed rosewood for an officer I served with in Pakistan. He refused delivery, saying that the completed piece was too large to fit in his farmhouse in Virginia. It is two separate pieces, top and bottom and weighs over 500lbs. I picked it off him for $600. A bargain.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR


Good story, good purchase. They are impressive looking.


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> Tsetse flies are vicious and very tough. I ran into them in Zim. Fortunately, that wasn't a sleeping sickness area but that didn't stop the flies from trying to eat us. A fly would land on you, you'd slap it. It would fall to the floor of the safari car, shake its head, say, "Oh yeah?" and fly up and bite you again. The PH said that the only way to deal with them was to catch it, take its head in between the thumb and fingers of one hand and the body with the other and pull it in half. To be absolutely sure, you threw the head out one side and the body out the other.


I'm very impressed. Many old Africa hands here on this forum. Any old Malaya hands? Or India hands, for that matter?


----------



## Oldsarge

drpeter said:


> I'm very impressed. Many old Africa hands here on this forum. Any old Malaya hands? Or India hands, for that matter?


Not here. By the time I had the money to go places, shikar was over in India and Malaya has never been on my bucket list. Too many tales of Boogie pirates, perhaps.


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> Not here. By the time I had the money to go places, shikar was over in India and Malaya has never been on my bucket list. Too many tales of Boogie pirates, perhaps.


Haha. The Bugis people were indeed pirates, at least for a while, but the British, like everywhere else they colonised, managed to co-opt them into the governance structure. There actually is a famous street in Singapore called Bugis Street.


----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

drpeter said:


> I'm very impressed. Many old Africa hands here on this forum. Any old Malaya hands? Or India hands, for that matter?


South Africa 2008-2011
Kenya 2011-2012
Saudi 2013-2015
Kenya 2015-2017
Pakistan 2017-2019
Home, thank God....


----------



## drpeter

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> South Africa 2008-2011
> Kenya 2011-2012
> Saudi 2013-2015
> Kenya 2015-2017
> Pakistan 2017-2019
> Home, thank God....


Foreign Service? Peace Corps? Ummm... Other Government Service?


----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

drpeter said:


> Foreign Service? Peace Corps? Ummm... Other Government Service?


FS


----------



## Oldsarge

I like that phrase 'Other Government Service'. It says so much while saying nothing at all.


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> I like that phrase 'Other Government Service'. It says so much while saying nothing at all.


Thank you. I've always believed in that old maxim about discretion being the better part of valour, LOL. One wouldn't want to put @bsr in the difficult position of having to disclose and kill.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

drpeter said:


> Thank you. I've always believed in that old maxim about discretion being the better part of valour, LOL. One wouldn't want to put @bsr in the difficult position of having to disclose and kill.


Yes. No need to expose what is under the kilt!

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## eagle2250

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> South Africa 2008-2011
> Kenya 2011-2012
> Saudi 2013-2015
> Kenya 2015-2017
> Pakistan 2017-2019
> Home, thank God....


....and thank you for your service. It is people like you who make us (the USA) work!


----------



## Oldsarge

For a number of years after she left the Active AF, my daughter worked in Washington, DC. We never asked what she did but it was kind of a hint that she got a MA in geography with a specialty in remote sensing. People would brightly ask, "And what does your daughter do?" We would put on a straight face and reply, deadpan, "She works for The Government." That was all it took to change the subject.


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## London380sl

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 42843


That ad was from 1985. Shows you, at least for men, how some things never go out of style.

I was looking at this link which shows the ads from the 80's for the Polo. I bet you could still wear about 90% of the products still today and not look out of place other than being very well dressed.

https://www.ivy-style.com/sixty-sev...celebrate-ralph-laurens-founding-in-1967.html


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## London380sl

If my wife ever saw me wearing those pants she would set fire to them. And possibly me .


----------



## Fading Fast

London380sl said:


> If my wife ever saw me wearing those pants she would set fire to them. And possibly me .


Definitely baggy by today's standards, but otherwise, a pretty basic looking chino (with an oddly rolled up cuff). What is it that she would hate?


----------



## London380sl

Fading Fast said:


> Definitely baggy by today's standards, but otherwise, a pretty basic looking chino (with an oddly rolled up cuff). What is it that she would hate?


Too baggy (even for me). We have a constant battle over pleats versus flat front on chinos.


----------



## Fading Fast

London380sl said:


> Too baggy (even for me). We have a constant battle over pleats versus flat front on chinos.


Got it, thank you.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 42943


Reflective moments of campus life! I'll bet he is thinking about girls?


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Reflective moments of campus life! I'll bet he is thinking about girls?


Or how cool he looks casually wearing his grey flannels (another Ivy thing I wish would make a comeback that I know won't).


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 42852


I bet you have a bunch of shirts sporting another famous emblem, the Lacoste Alligator. They don't seem to be plentiful nowadays -- Lacoste shirts, that is, not alligators. Now, what about combining the two and having an alligator clasping a polo mallet in its mouth?


----------



## drpeter

London380sl said:


> Too baggy (even for me). We have a constant battle over pleats versus flat front on chinos.


These things keep going round and round. There are only a handful of changes deemed acceptable in men's clothes and the latest styles have all made their repeated advents from a long time ago. First Edwardian pleatless trousers of the 1890s, worn tight, then the low-waisted drain-pipe flat fronts of the swinging sixties, and now the same sort of thing again, accompanied by overly tight suit jackets which are about three inches too short in length. The lapels of jackets vary from thin to extremely wide, and the same goes for the width of ties. The advantage for the clothes collector is that sooner or later, every item he or she has becomes _au courant_.

The _Madhyamika_ or Middle Path in Buddhist thought advocates moderation in everything. It seems to me that Trad dressing is in many ways the middle path, a style in between the extremes that ends up being timeless. Perhaps J Press embodies this Buddhist principle...they haven't changed the details of their clothes in seventy years.

Now when will codpieces make their splashy return on the runways?


----------



## Oldsarge

One can only hope! I remember back in the pre-digital age, when I was a college student, we in the performing arts got together to put on a Commedia del Arte. My costume had a long enough tunic that a codpiece would have been wasted but the soloist at my wedding? He was a body-builder as a hobby. Believe me, the girls in the costume department of the Theater Department had fun with his tights, I can tell you!

DrPeter, I never had anything to do with Lacoste. Their shirts never came with pockets and I MUST have a shirt pocket.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 42979


Perfectly done, except for the bow tie. He really needs a closed collar and a bladed tie for that rig. The bow tie comes off as just a bit too precious...a doable, but not a favored look!


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 42979


Very elegant. I do prefer forward pleats on trousers. As for the outfit, three large patterns close to one another is a bit dodgy from my perspective. One of those patterns could have been small scale, with a better overall effect.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Perfectly done, except for the bow tie. He really needs a closed collar and a bladed tie for that rig. The bow tie comes off as just a bit too precious...a doable, but not a favored look!


In that setting, I thought the bowtie worked, but (as the kids say) IRL, I agree with your comment.



drpeter said:


> Very elegant. I do prefer forward pleats on trousers. As for the outfit, three large patterns close to one another is a bit dodgy from my perspective. One of those patterns could have been small scale, with a better overall effect.


I agree that, in most cases, three large patterns is tough to pull off, but perhaps because the larger pattern in the sport coat is tone on tone, I think the three patterns work here. And, like you, I'm a fan of forward pleats.

My only complaints (because Ralph always calls and asked for my advice) is that the sport coat is (at least) one size too small for the model and the PS could lift out (especially with the glasses hanging there).

But even without any changes - that's a mighty fine looking rig.


----------



## Guest

Seems like every time I think that the "too tight, too short" era is over I am confronted with the above. Other than fit, I applaud the effort put forth in that shot. Gosh, RL is really an outlier in today's culture, (not counting Covid, which has put culture on hold). I haven't seen Drakes lately, but they come to mind as being what I view good, relevant, contemporary taste for a person who has a traditional esthetic.


----------



## peterc

If some has, knows, or remembers the issue of Vanity Fair, from 1982 or 1983, that had the almost 20 page RL spread, I would like to know, so I can acquire it. I remember where I was living when this issue came out and recall looking at it in Ralph's Grocery store in West LA, so that is how I have managed to nail down the time frame. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 43015


A sartorial eccentric, perhaps, but the man was indeed authentic in his approach to life. In any event, I sure bought a fair number of garments from his stores over the years!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> A sartorial eccentric, perhaps, but the man was indeed authentic in his approach to life. In any event, I sure bought a fair number of garments from his stores over the years!


As did I. At one point, most of my business wardrobe was Ralph (still is, it just sits unused in my WFH world - which I've been in for eight years now). I love his snuff suede shoes with that suit.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

This discussion reminded me of the RL Outlet Shop in a large Outlet Store Mall near Oshkosh, Wisconsin. I used to go there occasionally in the early 2000s when I had a girlfriend who was a bank manager in Appleton with Bank One (now Chase). On weekends we would make a shopping trip to the mall, and she particularly liked the fact that I was willing to help her buy clothes and had a good eye for things that would fit well in her wardrobe. In those days, banks required their officers to dress more formally (jackets and ties or suits for men, skirts/jackets, pants suits or dresses for women). I enjoyed shopping at the mall, especially during their sales, where I often picked up some bargains. There weren't a huge number of items there for my lady, but there were other women's shops in the mall which were great for her clothes. I haven't been to this shop in ages. But I checked, and here is the website:

https://stores.poloralphlaurenfactorystore.com/us/wi/oshkosh/3001-s-washburn-st
Maybe Wisconsin folks on this forum might recollect this shop.


----------



## Old Road Dog

There are many RL outlet stores around the country; dozens, in fact. In their early days they were truly outlets for unsold merchandise from the Polo stores, but many years ago they became a sub-brand for the company and they literally knock themselves off in almost every category. Items from a real Polo RL store almost never make it to the outlet stores. The outlets place orders in advance just like any other retailer does except these orders are just for the network of outlets. Polo outlets have tremendous appeal to foreign tourists to the U.S.

Polo outlets stores have decent quality items in men's, women's, and children's categories. I buy my pique knit polo shirts there, as they are indistinguishable from the couture shirts. The oxford shirts are the same also. I find it difficult to find much to buy there, and more often than not walk out empty-handed.

Back in the day in New York there were showroom sample sales of Polo merchandise. If you were a medium, 40 reg, size 9 shoe, 34 waist; there was a lot to buy. The sales were typically held in New Jersey at their big shipping facility.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 43105


Looking great from the waist up, but from the waist down it makes me frown. Hem or cuff the trousers and put on a pair of socks!


----------



## Old Road Dog

As an associate of mine once said: "Fashion isn't always pretty".


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Looking great from the waist up, but from the waist down it makes me frown. Hem or cuff the trousers and put on a pair of socks!


I'm not a fan of the rolled-up-pants look either, but as Old Road Dog says, it's probably an attempt at being "fashionable" or something.


----------



## drpeter

Old Road Dog said:


> There are many RL outlet stores around the country; dozens, in fact. In their early days they were truly outlets for unsold merchandise from the Polo stores, but many years ago they became a sub-brand for the company and they literally knock themselves off in almost every category. Items from a real Polo RL store almost never make it to the outlet stores. The outlets place orders in advance just like any other retailer does except these orders are just for the network of outlets. Polo outlets have tremendous appeal to foreign tourists to the U.S.
> 
> Polo outlets stores have decent quality items in men's, women's, and children's categories. I buy my pique knit polo shirts there, as they are indistinguishable from the couture shirts. The oxford shirts are the same also. I find it difficult to find much to buy there, and more often than not walk out empty-handed.
> 
> Back in the day in New York there were showroom sample sales of Polo merchandise. If you were a medium, 40 reg, size 9 shoe, 34 waist; there was a lot to buy. The sales were typically held in New Jersey at their big shipping facility.


Your characterization of the customer most likely to find a lot of stuff to buy is almost identical to my measurements! I'm a Medium (although I buy L in cotton shirts and L or even XL in cotton T shirts because cotton shrinks quite a lot), 40 jacket, 34 waist, size 9 shoe. Can't do time travel, though, and go back to those old days...


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## 215339

I think I visit this thread too much at late nights.

Ralph himself paid me a visit in my dreams, wearing a full Canadian tuxedo.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 43160


Now if that illustration didn't sell a whole bunch of Trench coats, I just can't imagine what would! The mystery and appeal of the young lady are palpable and the coat looks formidable enough to justify attaching ordinance to the grenade rings on the belt!


----------



## Oldsarge

The luxuriant feel of the leather is palpable from the photo!


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Fading Fast

Kinda feels like "Brideshead Revisited" meets "modern prep."


----------



## London380sl

Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 43178


That's one ugly cardigan. I'll pass on this one.


----------



## Old Road Dog

I'd absolutely wear that shawl cardigan with the bold blanket motif. We're talking Ralph here!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 43246


If his suit is navy and white seersucker, he is wearing my suit.......
......oh, wait just a minute; :icon_scratch::icon_scratch::icon_scratch:, I believe Brooks Brothers is responsible for mine. BB offered more workable sizing solutions for me.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> If his suit is navy and white seersucker, he is wearing my suit.......
> ......oh, wait just a minute; :icon_scratch::icon_scratch::icon_scratch:, I believe Brooks Brothers is responsible for mine. BB offered more workable sizing solutions for me.


I have a Polo one (in most cases, 40L in Polo requires only manageable alterations to fit me really well), but it is "tea stained" and blue-grey; whereas, (not sure, but) this one looks more white and blue-grey. Mine is about ten or so years old now, was OTR, pants have side tabs and modest forward pleats, bought on season ending sale (for ~$700 vs full price of ~$1600 - one of my best Polo sale purchases). My only compliant is that the jacket is fully lined which makes it warmer than it should be for seersucker.

I own a J.Crew unlined version of the same sport coat bought the same or nearly the same year (J.Crew, at least back then, put out a lot of less-expensive versions of Polo clothes), which, while not as well made, always makes me wish the Polo suit jacket wasn't lined. Sadly, though, as with so many of my nicer clothes, I find I'm lucky to find an excuse to wear the suit or, even, sport coat, once or twice a summer as, even in NYC, most people simply dress down in the summer for almost everything (and I don't go to the fancy parties where, maybe, people still dress up).


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 43209
> 
> Kinda feels like "Brideshead Revisited" meets "modern prep."


Most of all, I like the rattan armchair and the dark wood end-table. Reminds me of early 20th century furniture in homes in India and Malaya. The linen or cotton clothes would be perfect for the hot weather. Some of the other details in the photograph -- an old-fashioned table fan just above the armchair, and palm fronds see through the windows -- also indicate a tropical setting. All you need is Somerset Maugham, complete with baleful glance, lounging in an easy chair, to complete this picture.

With apologies to the OP for departing from the theme:

Tropical Breakfast ( Very healthy, and I just had it this morning):

_A ripe plantain_ (left at room temp until the skin turns completely black), boiled in enough water to cover it, until you can easily slide the point of a paring knife into the skin and flesh.

_Two fresh eggs_, fried quickly in butter, with a lid on to make the surface milky.

_Any dry, hot spice mixture_ (Cajun is good, with some hot red pepper flakes, but the best is something that the Noodles & Company chain keeps in its outlets, called _Smoulder from Boulder_ -- I have offered to buy a whole container, however they refuse to sell it to you but will give you good quantities free, to take home. Go figure.)

Once the plantain is done, lift it out of the water with tongs, cut the skin lengthwise, and grasping it by both tips, shake the fruit loose from the skin. Slice the plantain, which should be golden in colour and steaming.

Arrange the sliced plantain on a dinner plate and top with the fried eggs. Sprinkle the hot spice powder on top. Add salt and fresh-ground pepper if desired. Tuck in.

(Alternatively you can skin the plantain -- difficult without cooking, but doable -- and take the fruit out without steaming, then slice it into larger pieces lengthwise and flatten it a bit before frying it in butter. Then serve with the eggs)

Buen provecho!


----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph email a day or so ago:


----------



## xcubbies

drpeter said:


> Most of all, I like the rattan armchair and the dark wood end-table. Reminds me of early 20th century furniture in homes in India and Malaya. The linen or cotton clothes would be perfect for the hot weather. Some of the other details in the photograph -- an old-fashioned table fan just above the armchair, and palm fronds see through the windows -- also indicate a tropical setting. All you need is Somerset Maugham, complete with baleful glance, lounging in an easy chair, to complete this picture.
> 
> With apologies to the OP for departing from the theme:
> 
> Tropical Breakfast ( Very healthy, and I just had it this morning):
> 
> _A ripe plantain_ (left at room temp until the skin turns completely black), boiled in enough water to cover it, until you can easily slide the point of a paring knife into the skin and flesh.
> 
> _Two fresh eggs_, fried quickly in butter, with a lid on to make the surface milky.
> 
> _Any dry, hot spice mixture_ (Cajun is good, with some hot red pepper flakes, but the best is something that the Noodles & Company chain keeps in its outlets, called _Smoulder from Boulder_ -- I have offered to buy a whole container, however they refuse to sell it to you but will give you good quantities free, to take home. Go figure.)
> 
> Once the plantain is done, lift it out of the water with tongs, cut the skin lengthwise, and grasping it by both tips, shake the fruit loose from the skin. Slice the plantain, which should be golden in colour and steaming.
> 
> Arrange the sliced plantain on a dinner plate and top with the fried eggs. Sprinkle the hot spice powder on top. Add salt and fresh-ground pepper if desired. Tuck in.
> 
> (Alternatively you can skin the plantain -- difficult without cooking, but doable -- and take the fruit out without steaming, then slice it into larger pieces lengthwise and flatten it a bit before frying it in butter. Then serve with the eggs)
> 
> Buen provecho!


I think I'd choose some Thai congee with fish sauce, a large portion of papaya with lime and a steaming cup of coffee over your plaintain. Especially for breakfast.

Should this be on the Red Meat thread?


----------



## drpeter

xcubbies said:


> I think I'd choose some Thai congee with fish sauce, a large portion of papaya with lime and a steaming cup of coffee over your plaintain. Especially for breakfast.
> 
> Should this be on the Red Meat thread?


Thai congee with fish sauce??!! Oh, no, I wouldn't touch that stuff, especially not for breakfast. LOL, Tastes do differ don't they? The papaya with lime is just fine.

Where I was raised in southern India, there were different kinds of congees or rice gruel for breakfast, lunch or dinner. They were accompanied by steamed green peas (the small hard kind) dressed with coconut and spices, or with various boiled root vegetables and coconut oil. There was also a congee made in milk. Another standard accompaniment was fried, crispy lentil wafers called pappadoms. Plus Indian style hot pickles which went with everything. Congees were great for poor people because it stretched the rice available to you -- the liquid helped to fill you up.

Maybe it should be on a thread all its own.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## xcubbies

drpeter said:


> Thai congee with fish sauce??!! Oh, no, I wouldn't touch that stuff, especially not for breakfast. LOL, Tastes do differ don't they? The papaya with lime is just fine.
> 
> Where I was raised in southern India, there were different kinds of congees or rice gruel for breakfast, lunch or dinner. They were accompanied by steamed green peas (the small hard kind) dressed with coconut and spices, or with various boiled root vegetables and coconut oil. There was also a congee made in milk. Another standard accompaniment was fried, crispy lentil wafers called pappadoms. Plus Indian style hot pickles which went with everything. Congees were great for poor people because it stretched the rice available to you -- the liquid helped to fill you up.
> 
> Maybe it should be on a thread all its own.


In deference to your youth, how about a nice masala dhosa instead?


----------



## drpeter

xcubbies said:


> In deference to your youth, how about a nice masala dhosa instead?


That's the spirit! In fact, those were ubiquitous when I was growing up. You can find them in Indian restaurants in this country. And I make them at home regularly, although I don't have the kind of large heating range to make those giant crisp ones. A couple who are my friends loved them so much, I bought them the supplies and taught them how to make these wonderful masala dhosas! And all the great stuff you can spread on it -- coconut chutney, saambaar, podi...The secret to the stuffing is good potatoes, fresh ginger, and above all, beets.

In fact, I still have some batter in the fridge (it stays fine for months, it is fermented, you can also freeze it, I usually have a couple of tubs in the freezer), so I might make some for a Saturday brunch today. @xcubbies, you are hereby invited to my home for masala dhosa. Darn, I guess we will have to wait until the social distancing is over...


----------



## xcubbies

drpeter said:


> That's the spirit! In fact, those were ubiquitous when I was growing up. You can find them in Indian restaurants in this country. And I make them at home regularly, although I don't have the kind of large heating range to make those giant crisp ones. A couple who are my friends loved them so much, I bought them the supplies and taught them how to make these wonderful masala dhosas! And all the great stuff you can spread on it -- coconut chutney, saambaar, podi...The secret to the stuffing is good potatoes, fresh ginger, and above all, beets.
> 
> In fact, I still have some batter in the fridge (it stays fine for months, it is fermented, you can also freeze it, I usually have a couple of tubs in the freezer), so I might make some for a Saturday brunch today. @xcubbies, you are hereby invited to my home for masala dhosa. Darn, I guess we will have to wait until the social distancing is over...


What wine goes with a nice dhosa? In fact, in southern Madras they prepare a rich, milky coffee that would be even better than wine. This quarantine can't last forever. In sout


----------



## Oldsarge

I prefer cold beer with Indian food. Kingfisher is always a good complement. I've never heard whether or not Ralph likes Indian food. I'll bet he does.


----------



## drpeter

xcubbies said:


> What wine goes with a nice dhosa? In fact, in southern Madras they prepare a rich, milky coffee that would be even better than wine. This quarantine can't last forever. In sout


I've never had wine with dhosa, or any other alcoholic beverage. When I was growing up it was considered a breakfast/brunch food for the most part, along with another dish, a rice cake called idli. Sometimes one would have dhosas in a restaurant later in the afternoon, but it was always served with the wonderful, milky, almost nutty coffee that is found in Madras, as well as in Trivandrum ( my old town) and other cities in the south. To my taste, no other coffee anywhere I have travelled has come close, although a cafe in Rome produced a coffee that was quite similar in flavour.


----------



## drpeter

xcubbies said:


> What wine goes with a nice dhosa? In fact, in southern Madras they prepare a rich, milky coffee that would be even better than wine. This quarantine can't last forever. In sout


I've never had wine with dhosa, or any other alcoholic beverage. When I was growing up it was considered a breakfast/brunch food for the most part, along with another dish, a rice cake called idli. Sometimes one would have dhosas in a restaurant later in the afternoon, but it was always served with the wonderful, milky, almost nutty coffee that is found in Madras, as well as in Trivandrum ( my old town) and other cities in the south. To my taste, no other coffee anywhere I have travelled has come close, although a cafe in Rome produced a coffee that was quite similar in flavour.


Oldsarge said:


> I prefer cold beer with Indian food. Kingfisher is always a good complement. I've never heard whether or not Ralph likes Indian food. I'll bet he does.


Yes, Kingfisher is a good Indian beer that goes well with most Indian food. If wines are to be served, then a strong robust wine like a Merlot would go well with the spicy dishes. I'd recommend a Merlot for Cajun food as well. Sometimes a fruity white wine, perhaps a light Chardonnay or a Chablis, would go well with certain spicy dishes. The perfect wine would be a wine that I was served on a hot day in a restaurant in Pompei, Italy. It was lunch and the waiter recommended a half bottle of a young white wine, low in alcohol but refreshing. It had the nicest name: _Lagrimae Christi,_ the tears of Christ! I loved it.


----------



## Oldsarge

drpeter said:


> I've never had wine with dhosa, or any other alcoholic beverage. When I was growing up it was considered a breakfast/brunch food for the most part, along with another dish, a rice cake called idli. Sometimes one would have dhosas in a restaurant later in the afternoon, but it was always served with the wonderful, milky, almost nutty coffee that is found in Madras, as well as in Trivandrum ( my old town) and other cities in the south. To my taste, no other coffee anywhere I have travelled has come close, although a cafe in Rome produced a coffee that was quite similar in flavour.
> 
> Yes, Kingfisher is a good Indian beer that goes well with most Indian food. If wines are to be served, then a strong robust wine like a Merlot would go well with the spicy dishes. I'd recommend a Merlot for Cajun food as well. Sometimes a fruity white wine, perhaps a light Chardonnay or a Chablis, would go well with certain spicy dishes. The perfect wine would be a wine that I was served on a hot day in a restaurant in Pompei, Italy. It was lunch and the waiter recommended a half bottle of a young white wine, low in alcohol but refreshing. It had the nicest name: _Lagrimae Christi,_ the tears of Christ! I loved it.


Lagrimae Christi is famous, one of Southern Italy's prides. I'm glad you liked it.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 43381


Nice rig...love the shoes and, for once, I will not mention the absence of a nice pair of socks, but really, who but a poser would do that to the cuff of a rather nice jacket? :icon_scratch: Ralph likes to mess with our minds!


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> Lagrimae Christi is famous, one of Southern Italy's prides. I'm glad you liked it.


Well, @Oldsarge, it was quite some time ago when I tasted it. But the memory of its taste still lingers.

I don't drink anymore, haven't in quite a while. I've given up all my "vices": No alcohol, no tobacco (maybe a good cigar once in a great while), no fast driving (but I still bicycle pretty fast). The one thing I refuse to give up is spicy food and hot sauces. I collect hot sauces the way other folks collect wine. Maybe I should get a hot sauce rack made out of nice wood, just like a wine rack, only smaller, LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Nice rig...love the shoes and, for once, I will not mention the absence of a nice pair of socks, but really, who but a poser would do that to the cuff of a rather nice jacket? :icon_scratch: Ralph likes to mess with our minds!


I think that cuff stuff is part of the "fashion" element of Ralph's business where they do something to be different or look different or whatever. I have a friend who works in fashion (who's also level headed) and she admits they do stuff just to do stuff.

If you think back to Brooks Brothers ads up through the '80s, when it was still, basically, the old Brooks, it didn't do (or rarely did) stuff like that as it was pro-actively selling a not-fashion brand.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 43381


The clothes are all right, but the two animals are truly splendid. Notice how the colour of_ their _sportcoats harmonize with almost every other tint in that photograph. That's a beige/brown/khaki to die for. Are they terriers of some sort?


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> The clothes are all right, but the two animals are truly splendid. Notice how the colour of_ their _sportcoats harmonize with almost every other tint in that photograph. That's a beige/brown/khaki to die for. Are they terriers of some sort?


I'm no dog expert, but I agree, they look like terriers to me - fox terriers, but again, no expert.

Ralph hires some of the best in the industry (from my fashion friend again) for these shoots - the details you are noting, as you imply, did not happen by accident.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 43409


Perfect...that is how a properly dressed young man should acquit himself to sally forth and take on the world. I even like the pocket square in this one!


----------



## Oldsarge

eagle2250 said:


> Perfect...that is how a properly dressed young man should acquit himself to sally forth and take on the world. I even like the pocket square in this one!


I absolutely agree. And if the person interviewing him happens to be female, he's already got the job.


----------



## Oldsarge

drpeter said:


> The clothes are all right, but the two animals are truly splendid. Notice how the colour of_ their _sportcoats harmonize with almost every other tint in that photograph. That's a beige/brown/khaki to die for. Are they terriers of some sort?


Yes, Airdales, king of terriers. I don't know what they were originally bred for but in those states where one can still hunt bear with hounds, Airedale's are a preferred breed as 'catch dogs'. And if you value your life, don't try to break into a home where one lives!


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> Yes, Airdales, king of terriers. I don't know what they were originally bred for but in those states where one can still hunt bear with hounds, Airedale's are a preferred breed as 'catch dogs'. And if you value your life, don't try to break into a home where one lives!


Thank you. I'm glad my general guess was right. The warning is very useful: I will do my level best to avoid such homes when I go on my customary rounds of burglary.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## xcubbies

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 43589


This is a great service to AAAC community.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 43632


Great looking threads, but given the way his buttons are pulling his garments out of shape, it might serve him well to go up a size. Wish we could see more of that cardigan vest (I think it is).


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Great looking threads, but given the way his buttons are pulling his garments out of shape, it might serve him well to go up a size. Wish we could see more of that cardigan vest (I think it is).


I had similar thoughts - love the outfit, but the sport coat is too tight and the cuff nonsense; too affected. I also love sweater vests (cardigans or pullovers) and, when I didn't WFH, wore them a lot.

That said, I give Ralph's designers a lot of credit as that is a wonderful combination of colors and four (!) patterns that I would never have come up with myself. And yes, the cardigan vest is a standout.


----------



## Old Road Dog

I was very disappointed when Polo seemingly got sucked into the vortex of overly-tight fit. The result is that photo of the model stuffed into all those layers of clothing. Claustrophobia comes to mind.


----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

eagle2250 said:


> Great looking threads, but given the way his buttons are pulling his garments out of shape, it might serve him well to go up a size. Wish we could see more of that cardigan vest (I think it is).


I am a huge fan of the look.

I am seriously digging the cardigan under the jacket idea for this fall.

I have been searching for Fair Isle bargains on eBay. Hard to tell what is actually legit made in UK though. 

I greatly enjoy this famous shot of Hemingway rocking a cardigan vest under his Safari jacket. In my experience, one would be stripping down by lunchtime. Cold mornings, scorching afternoons, cold evenings were the norm during my time in east Africa.









He is also sporting his "Gott Mitt Uns" nazi war souvenir belt outside his trouser loops. I love the look but wonder how I would keep my trousers up? Braces?

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## Peak and Pine

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> I greatly enjoy this famous shot of Hemingway rocking a cardigan vest under his Safari jacket.


Seriously? Hemingway's a god to me and that's about the worst picture imaginable. Try this...










Interude over, back to Ralph...








...


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> Great looking threads, but given the way his buttons are pulling his garments out of shape, it might serve him well to go up a size. Wish we could see more of that cardigan vest (I think it is).


Agreed as regards the jacket. But I fear this might be the new style at work. Overtight jackets, that are also far shorter in length than anything before. I wonder if the back of the jacket is long enough to cover the model's backside, LOL.


----------



## drpeter

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> I am a huge fan of the look.
> 
> I am seriously digging the cardigan under the jacket idea for this fall.
> 
> I have been searching for Fair Isle bargains on eBay. Hard to tell what is actually legit made in UK though.
> 
> I greatly enjoy this famous shot of Hemingway rocking a cardigan vest under his Safari jacket. In my experience, one would be stripping down by lunchtime. Cold mornings, scorching afternoons, cold evenings were the norm during my time in east Africa.
> 
> View attachment 43637
> 
> He is also sporting his "Gott Mitt Uns" nazi war souvenir belt outside his trouser loops. I love the look but wonder how I would keep my trousers up? Braces?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR


LOL, "Got Mitt Uns" sounds an awful lot like "Got mittens?". Perhaps a sentiment that Ernie might subscribe to, at least during those cold mornings in Africa.


----------



## Oldsarge

Peak and Pine said:


> Seriously? Hemingway's a god to me and that's about the worst picture imaginable. Try this...
> 
> View attachment 43640
> 
> 
> Interude over, back to Ralph...
> 
> View attachment 43639
> ...


the Laurens are, indeed, a handsome family.


----------



## Peak and Pine

drpeter said:


> ...I fear this might be the new style at work. Overtight jackets, that are also far shorter in length than anything before. I wonder if the back of the jacket is long enough to cover the model's backside, LOL.


The ad's from 2013, so the new style's not exactly new. New Style seems to lose value if the sticking power goes past a half dozen years.


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> The ad's from 2013, so the new style's not exactly new. New Style seems to lose value if the sticking power goes past a half dozen years.


Ah, I see. If it's 2013, then it's probably old style. I have trouble believing that tight jackets and narrow-trousered suits came into fashion seven years ago!

I wonder if anyone has looked at how long these fashion innovations last before things cycle through to the next "new" thing. Anyway, here are some general thoughts, my dates and periods are pretty approximate.

Tight, drainpipe or stovepipe trousers of the kind seen today were last seen in the late fifties and early sixties, as far as I can tell. That gave way to the terrible, double-knit polyester fashion decade of the seventies, and during that time bell-bottomed trousers also took hold. Then we went back to proper materials like wool or cotton, but trousers became straight-legged with minimal taper, along with pleats that had come back in style. But pleats, I think, had gone out of fashion in the fifties and sixties (maybe even during and after WWII), so were not fashionable for quite a long time. In the eighties and nineties, trousers became wider-legged, but remained pleated, while there was a return of the double-breasted jacket not seen since the forties, almost. Now that seems to have gone into fashion history as well. Or maybe not quite. Similar comments can be made about lapel sizes and widths and the width of neckties, both waxing and waning every few seasons. Or the collars of shirts -- remember the enormous collars of the early seventies?

So that's my fashion story and I'm sticking to it, LOL. Putting all this together, would you say that a fashion cycle, while it may have lost its newness, is round about 7-10 years?


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Ah, I see. If it's 2013, then it's probably old style. I have trouble believing that tight jackets and narrow-trousered suits came into fashion seven years ago!
> 
> I wonder if anyone has looked at how long these fashion innovations last before things cycle through to the next "new" thing. Anyway, here are some general thoughts, my dates and periods are pretty approximate.
> 
> Tight, drainpipe or stovepipe trousers of the kind seen today were last seen in the late fifties and early sixties, as far as I can tell. That gave way to the terrible, double-knit polyester fashion decade of the seventies, and during that time bell-bottomed trousers also took hold. Then we went back to proper materials like wool or cotton, but trousers became straight-legged with minimal taper, along with pleats that had come back in style. But pleats, I think, had gone out of fashion in the fifties and sixties (maybe even during and after WWII), so were not fashionable for quite a long time. In the eighties and nineties, trousers became wider-legged, but remained pleated, while there was a return of the double-breasted jacket not seen since the forties, almost. Now that seems to have gone into fashion history as well. Or maybe not quite. Similar comments can be made about lapel sizes and widths and the width of neckties, both waxing and waning every few seasons. Or the collars of shirts -- remember the enormous collars of the early seventies?
> 
> So that's my fashion story and I'm sticking to it, LOL. Putting all this together, would you say that a fashion cycle, while it may have lost its newness, is round about 7-10 years?


Purely from memory, I think the slimming trend started no later than the mid '00s as I remember both J.Crew showing narrower fitting items in about '06 and then Thom Browne showing his really slim stuff at Brooks Brothers a few years later at most. Hence, again from memory, the sliming trend has been going on for, probably, close to fifteen years by now.


----------



## Oldsarge

To be honest, I have rarely paid much attention to what was in fashion. Being an old fuddy-duddy, I just wear whateverthehell I want. The Thom Browne's of the world can go ahead and do their thing. Mine is more like Bruce's.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Fading Fast said:


> Purely from memory, I think the slimming trend started no later than the mid '00s as I remember both J.Crew showing narrower fitting items in about '06 and then Thom Browne showing his really slim stuff at Brooks Brothers a few years later at most. Hence, again from memory, the sliming trend has been going on for, probably, close to fifteen years by now.


^
That seems accurate. And with men of a certain age and a certain build, the look is sharp. But _sharp_ is not an adjective that most here seek. _Smooth, _try that. I could aim for that. And do, and hit it often, my imagination tells me. Easy to please, my imagination.


----------



## Peak and Pine

The latest. PRL fall/winter 2020...


----------



## Peak and Pine

...and this...


----------



## Peak and Pine

...and this...


----------



## Peak and Pine

Rewind...


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## xcubbies

Does this RL explosion mean that James Bondgear is no longer in vogue?


----------



## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 43695


Welcome to a cool summer morning. By noon you would definitely doff the vest/sweater/whatever that is. But it looks very, very sharp to me.


----------



## Oldsarge

xcubbies said:


> Does this RL explosion mean that James Bondgear is no longer in vogue?


I was never big on James Bond, anyway.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Old Road Dog

Ok, am I seeing horn buttons mixed with brass buttons on that blazer? Is that like wearing a pin through a button-down collar?

I had that Polo polo coat when I was thinner. Yummy.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 43739





Old Road Dog said:


> Ok, am I seeing horn buttons mixed with brass buttons on that blazer? Is that like wearing a pin through a button-down collar?
> 
> I had that Polo polo coat when I was thinner. Yummy.


Ralph is really starting to piss me off...mixed buttons on a blazer, half of a shirttail untucked, that gawd awful embroidered emblem on the breast pocket, and the list goes on. Stop it, Ralph and do so right now! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Ralph is really starting to piss me off...mixed buttons on a blazer, half of a shirttail untucked, that gawd awful embroidered emblem on the breast pocket, and the list goes on. Stop it, Ralph and do so right now! LOL.


I think most of the things that we here in trad-ville grumble about are because, as we've chatted about before, Ralph is a fashion brand, which includes trying to do trendy, quirky things. Brooks, back in the day that we loved it, was never a fashion brand, but was a clothing merchant. Again, all this comes from a friend in the fashion biz.

It's funny, I've almost become adjusted to untucked shirts as young men in NYC have been doing that regularly for about a decade now. What I don't get at all is, as you note, that large embroidered emblem on the breast pocket. An emblem for a school or club I get; I just don't understand why someone would want to wear an emblem that has no meaning to him on his blazer.

One heck of a camel coat though.


----------



## Peak and Pine

The Man...










Below, from the upcoming Fall/Winter 2020 campaign. (Which few here will cotton to 'cept me maybe, were I still 20 .)









.
Fun Fact: in the Ralph picture above he's wearing a ™Tommy Hilfiger polo. The blazer obscures the logo.


----------



## Oldsarge

His granddaughters are the best accessory yet.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> Ralph is really starting to piss me off...mixed buttons on a blazer, half of a shirttail untucked, that gawd awful embroidered emblem on the breast pocket, and the list goes on. Stop it, Ralph and do so right now! LOL.


Can it be possible that RL is succumbing to current trends in dressing, and leaving aside good taste? People change. Sometimes, at least.

Blazer crests are usually worn by people who have some affiliation with an organization whose crest it is -- a school, university, club, cricket or tennis team, a professional society, etc. Based on other RL adverts I've seen, this crest is likely the one designed by RL to ennoble himself. That, too, is in poor taste -- unless you are a monarch, perhaps?


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I think most of the things that we here in trad-ville grumble about are because, as we've chatted about before, Ralph is a fashion brand, which includes trying to do trendy, quirky things. Brooks, back in the day that we loved it, was never a fashion brand, but was a clothing merchant. Again, all this comes from a friend in the fashion biz.
> 
> It's funny, I've almost become adjusted to untucked shirts as young men in NYC have been doing that regularly for about a decade now. What I don't get at all is, as you note, that large embroidered emblem on the breast pocket. An emblem for a school or club I get; I just don't understand why someone would want to wear an emblem that has no meaning to him on his blazer.
> 
> Once heck of a camel coat though.


Wearing crests on a blazer that have no meaning to one in terms of an affiliation is somewhat like knowingly wearing a regimental tie when you have no association with that regiment. The same for schools, universities, clubs, etc. In the case of ties, however, there have been so many patterns and designs that are similar to actual regimental colours that no one really criticizes the wearer of a regimental tie. But I've heard that in Britain, still, citizens of that country who know about regimental and other affiliations frown upon the practice of wearing ties from institutions that one is not related to in any way.

I have two ties that I wear from time to time that have institutional connections. In the first case, it is the tie with a small discrete crest and stripes that indicate that the wearer is a member of the oldest stamp club in the world, the Royal Philatelic Society of London -- and I was elected to membership in the Royal a few years ago. In fact, you cannot buy an RPSL tie if you are not a Member or Fellow of the Society. In the second case, the association is less direct. During National Service in India, I trained under Gurkha instructors and JCOs attached to the paramilitary unit I was in, and so, while I was not a regular soldier or officer in a Gurkha regiment, I still had an association with such a regiment, and I wear their colors sometimes, to honour and respect them. And these ties are freely available for anyone to purchase unlike the Royal's ties.


----------



## Oldsarge

I have much the same thing. Among my many seldom worn neckties are the University of California, Riverside tartan, the blue and gold California State University and my regimental from Military Intelligence. I could legitimately wear a regimental from the U.S. Special Operations Command but I have never seen one for sale . . . when I was looking. I also have a blazer patch from the Army and a lapel pin for Military Retired, if anyone cares about such things. But since it is likely to be another year before I put on a necktie . . .


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

Oldsarge said:


> I have much the same thing. Among my many seldom worn neckties are the University of California, Riverside tartan, the blue and gold California State University and my regimental from Military Intelligence. I could legitimately wear a regimental from the U.S. Special Operations Command but I have never seen one for sale . . . when I was looking. I also have a blazer patch from the Army and a lapel pin for Military Retired, if anyone cares about such things. But since it is likely to be another year before I put on a necktie . . .


Bragg , San Antonio?

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 43802


Mmmm...no.
I don't like the large "R". It screams "RL" from 50 yards distance.

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## Fading Fast

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> Mmmm...no.
> I don't like the large "R". It screams "RL" from 50 yards distance.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR


I felt the same way. I like the sweater - looks very classic Apparel Arts - but the large shield feels gimmicky and forced to me.


----------



## Old Road Dog

These photos have me wondering who the Ralph Lauren customer really is? I don't see anything close to this look being worn in my locale, partly because there is really nowhere to buy it. My son buys a few knit shirts from the web store, but he certainly is not going for the look depicted in the ads. Perhaps we of the American mainstream are not the target of the advertising. Another possibility is that its about selling scads of knit shirts at obsene profit margins ("Selling the dream"),as Ralph so often is quoted.


----------



## Fading Fast

Old Road Dog said:


> These photos have me wondering who the Ralph Lauren customer really is? I don't see anything close to this look being worn in my locale, partly because there is really nowhere to buy it. My son buys a few knit shirts from the web store, but he certainly is not going for the look depicted in the ads. Perhaps we of the American mainstream are not the target of the advertising. Another possibility is that its about selling scads of knit shirts at obsene profit margins ("Selling the dream"),as Ralph so often is quoted.


I often wonder about this too. I live in NYC about 8 blocks from the flagship store. The windows look like the ads and the store is chockablock with the clothes we see in the ads.

And I do see - occasionally - someone on the street in a full-on Ralph outfit, but it's rare. That said, the basic suits, shirts, ties, etc., sell well and, in business situations (when biz suits, shirts, ties are worn, which is much less common now) I see them all the time.

When I've been in the Midwest (girlfriend's parents live in MI), I've noticed that the one Ralph store I've been in had a lot more of the "basics" and only some of the more full-on Ralph clothes.

So, I think it's a blend - you are right, to some extent, the "image" sells the polo shirts and, to some extent, there is a much smaller market of people who do buy the other stuff.

I'm a good example. When I was maintaining a tradition work wardrobe, I bought a lot of Ralph suits, shirts and ties, but to most people they just looked like "business" clothes as my suits where normally grey, shirts were blue or white and ties conservative. I'd sprinkle in a more full-on Ralph item - a herringbone sweater vest or pin-collar pink shirt - here and there, but the overall look was still reasonably tame.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Oldsarge

The dog has style.


----------



## Fading Fast

Oldsarge said:


> The dog has style.


And since it's Ralph, he's perfectly color coordinated with the others in the pic, except for the guy on the far left with the dark shirt.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Peak and Pine

Er, not me maybe (by a country mile), but some here may enjoy this warm weather pair...


----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

Peak and Pine said:


> Er, not me maybe (by a country mile), but some here may enjoy this warm weather pair...
> 
> View attachment 43903


I have a similar pair of madras trousers. I didn't think to pair them with seersucker. Not a bad look.

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 43959


I love the overall look, but not the sweater tucked into the trousers. :crazy:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I love the overall look, but not the sweater tucked into the trousers. :crazy:


I've never liked the tucked-in-sweater look* and think, in this case in particular, the untucked sweater would be more consistent with the overall casual vibe of the corduroy suit. That said, still darn fine outfit as you noted - really love how well all the colors work together.

*Probably owing to a Ralph ad, many, many years ago, I tried the tucked-in-sweater look; I think I made it no more than a few hours till I untucked.


----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 43959


Yep. Sans tucked vest, I would love to wear that.

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## Peak and Pine

And the desk ain't bad.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Peak and Pine

^

????

The pic you just posted was tacked up last month (April 7, 2020. #58. Mine). At the time you made the comment below. And you got a Like from me. So I guess you still do. Maybe a bit more scritiny though.



Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Love that with three caveats; the suit needs to be less skinny and I'd take one pattern out (my choice with be to go with a solid shirt). Also, if you're going to do the "watch in breast pocket with watch fob handing over the lapel" thing, then at least forgo the pocket square as, besides the aesthetic clutter, functionally, pulling that watch out would bring the PS out with it.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 44096


What is with that gold hued medallion attached to the chain that runs through the button hole on the gentleman's lapel and drops down into his jackets breast pocket? The breast pocket would be a funny place to carry a pocket watch!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> What is with that gold hued medallion attached to the chain that runs through the button hole on the gentleman's lapel and drops down into his jackets breast pocket? The breast pocket would be a funny place to carry a pocket watch!


You nailed it as that is (my guess as we can't see the watch) what I believe it is. Back in the '20s and '30s, pocket watches were sometimes put in the suit or sport coat's breast pocket with the chain looped through the lapel buttonhole and the fob left dangling as in our pic. There's one of Fred Astaire doing it, but I couldn't find it with a quick search. I'll look again later and post if I find it.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> What is with that gold hued medallion attached to the chain that runs through the button hole on the gentleman's lapel and drops down into his jackets breast pocket? The breast pocket would be a funny place to carry a pocket watch!





Fading Fast said:


> You nailed it as that is (my guess as we can't see the watch) what I believe it is. Back in the '20s and '30s, pocket watches were sometimes put in the suit or sport coat's breast pocket with the chain looped through the lapel buttonhole and the fob left dangling as in our pic. There's one of Fred Astaire doing it, but I couldn't find it with a quick search. I'll look again later and post if I find it.


Here's an article with a few pics (and one with Astaire, but oddly, not the one I had in mind) of watches being put in breast pockets:

https://www.vintagecoolhunter.com/single-post/2016/06/12/The-Way-You-Wear-Your-Watch
Out there is still a better Astaire one - I'll keep looking as time permits.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Can't find attribution, so may be only Ralph-esque. Think the loud plaid shirt with the quiet sand suit looks pretty good. Wouldn't have thought so until seeing. It's a young guy look, maybe not. Guy on left rushed to Urgent Care immediately after photo shoot, broken left ankle.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 44096


_Four_ patterns? The Duke of Windsor carried it off, I'm not too sure about the rest of us.


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> Can't find attribution, so may be only Ralph-esque. Think the loud plaid shirt with the quiet sand suit looks pretty good. Wouldn't have thought so until seeing. It's a young guy look, maybe not. Guy on left rushed to Urgent Care immediately after photo shoot, broken left ankle.
> View attachment 44099


A good example of the "bum freezer" styles of the UK and Italy, back in the 50s and early 60s. The trousers are so tight, they look like leggings! Definitely not my style, LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 44126


As per my nature, I can't claim to care for the 'over done' pocket square thing, but the rest of his rig is incredibly pleasing to my eyes. Even the skinny tie is workable!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> As per my nature, I can't claim to care for the 'over done' pocket square thing, but the rest of his rig is incredibly pleasing to my eyes. Even the skinny tie is workable!


I really like this one too - but, like you, am not a fan of the elaborate PS - but it seems (and the pic gets a bit fuzzy when I enlarge it) that he's not buttoned his button-down collar and instead is using a collar bar or collar pin.

To my eye, the unused buttons on the shirt look odd. But again, overall, really like it - the suit jacket's length looks traditional (i.e., not short like so many are today). I think the tie's width works with the suit's lapel and his not overly wide shoulders.


----------



## London380sl

Peak and Pine said:


> Can't find attribution, so may be only Ralph-esque. Think the loud plaid shirt with the quiet sand suit looks pretty good. Wouldn't have thought so until seeing. It's a young guy look, maybe not. Guy on left rushed to Urgent Care immediately after photo shoot, broken left ankle.
> View attachment 44099


Or maybe its Hugo Boss. I have an identical Hugo Boss jacket to the broken foot guy. I could pull off that look, including the long hair, thanks to the current pandemic lockdown. It's been since mid January that I have had a haircut.


----------



## Oldsarge

The barber shops around the Portland Metro area will have long lines starting June 1st, I suspect. And I will be in one!


----------



## Peak and Pine

From the 2007 catalogue. Ask me if I like this look.


----------



## xcubbies

Peak and Pine said:


> From the 2007 catalogue. Ask me if I like this look.
> 
> View attachment 44145


Needs some Ojibwe snowshoes to really complete the look.


----------



## Old Road Dog

Like most of today's tailored clothing, the jackets shown above from PRL are reflective of the extreme fit preferred by the younger customer and shown on 20-something models. It is a rare younger individual who has the appetite and means for choosing Polo as his source for clothing


----------



## London380sl

Peak and Pine said:


> From the 2007 catalogue. Ask me if I like this look.
> 
> View attachment 44145


Okay. I'll bite.

Do you like it?

Apart from the model suffering from a very mild case of Koumpounophobia (fear of buttons) I rather like the look.


----------



## Peak and Pine

London380sl said:


> Okay. I'll bite.
> 
> Do you like it?


I would marry it if I could.
The clothes, not the guy.


----------



## Oldsarge

At my age I would look really strange wearing it.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Oldsarge said:


> At my age I would look really strange wearing it.


I'm older and I wouldn't, so I'm telling myself here.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## London380sl

I find the vest /shirt combination on the model with the bow tie to be a bit off putting. Either lose the vest and keep the striped shirt or keep the vest and switch to a plain shirt.


----------



## xcubbies

All of the layering kind of makes me laugh. I suppose it's the best way to expose numerous items for sale on one model. In the Winter I'll wear a t-shirt, flannel shirt, Shetland and a coat when I'm outside, but those outfits seem too prissy for February in Maine. How the hell am I going to swing an axe ?


----------



## Fading Fast

Feels like this might be a dupe. Too skinny here and there, but overall like the style and combos (would lose both PSs):









So here's one more. This one (my guess) is an early '90s Ralph ad when "big" was at its peak, which can also be seen in the clothing of the men in the early years of the TV show "Friends."


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Feels like this might be a dupe. Too skinny here and there, but overall like the style and combos (would lose both PSs):
> View attachment 44230
> 
> 
> So here's one more. This one (my guess) is an early '90s Ralph ad when "big" was at its peak, which can also be seen in the clothing of the men in the early years of the TV show "Friends."
> View attachment 44231


The blade of the tie tucked into the waistband reminded me of the Duke of Windsor's numerous innovations (some good, others not so much) in dressing. The Duke would tuck in his tie at times. He would also wear a four-in-hand with the narrower section hanging lower than the wider one! Maybe RL has a model somewhere doing that as well.

The shirt billowing out of the trousers and the trousers looking a couple of sizes too big for this chap makes the whole arrangement look faintly piratical. He needs a cutlass in his right hand, and maybe a peg leg and a parrot...


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> The blade of the tie tucked into the waistband reminded me of the Duke of Windsor's numerous innovations (some good, others not so much) in dressing. The Duke would tuck in his tie at times. He would also wear a four-in-hand with the narrower section hanging lower than the wider one! Maybe RL has a model somewhere doing that as well.
> 
> The shirt billowing out of the trousers and the trousers looking a couple of sizes too big for this chap makes the whole arrangement look faintly piratical. He needs a cutlass in his right hand, and maybe a peg leg and a parrot...


What's funny is that in the early '90s, many men were really wearing their clothes that big or nearly that big. It's taken almost 30 years to where many men now wear their clothes very, very tight.

I'm tall and thin - small boned, narrow shoulders - so I could never wear the "big" clothes as I looked like a hobo in them. But they were everywhere with, for a awhile, many brands trying to "out big" the other guy - hence, things like Polo's "The Big Dress Shirt." I still have regular T-shirts from then, from LL Bean for example, that were not "big" ones, but still, by today's standards, they are cut very large.

Fashion's gotta fashion, so the wheel will spin again, but when things were big and now when they are slim - I just try to find the middle ground and what works best on my frame. To be honest, I have more luck today with the slim (not skinny) fits in finding clothes that look "normal" on me than I did in the '90s when even the regular cut stuff was too big for me.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> What's funny is that in the early '90s, many men were really wearing their clothes that big or nearly that big. It's taken almost 30 years to where many men now wear their clothes very, very tight.
> 
> I'm tall and thin - small boned, narrow shoulders - so I could never wear the "big" clothes as I looked like a hobo in them. But they were everywhere with, for a awhile, many brands trying to "out big" the other guy - hence, things like Polo's "The Big Dress Shirt." I still have regular T-shirts from then, from LL Bean for example, that were not "big" ones, but still, by today's standards, they are cut very large.
> 
> Fashions gotta fashion, so the wheel will spin again, but when things were big and now when they are slim - I just try to find the middle ground and what works best on my frame. To be honest, I have more luck today with the slim (not skinny) fits in finding clothes that look "normal" on me than I did in the '90s when even the regular cut stuff was too big for me.


And before the nineties, there were the thirties and forties, when double-breasted jackets had enormous lapels and trousers were very loose. Ties were wide too, and worn short on the chest. Take a look at some of the suits worn by the redoubtable Humphrey Bogart, or even Gary Cooper. They were big clothes. You're right, fashion does have its cycles.


----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

Some of the layered outfits could be worn in sub freezing temps and still leave me hot under the collar if there were no breeze.

As for the Duke of Windor, did he ever wear the silk tie as belt look? I have tested this look a few times while dressing but never mustered up the courage to walk out the door with this styling.

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## Acct2000

These pictures both look like "pattern matching" for its own sake. While no "rules" may be broken, these ensembles, are way, way, too busy for me.


----------



## Fading Fast

If they took the darn logos off these (and un-popped the collar) I'd wear either of these outfits, but I just don't get the big logos. I'm not a fan of logos in general, but Polo's small horse or BB's Golden Fleece are, kinda, in the mainstream (I pretty much avoid them though), but these - the large R or 67 - make no sense to me. I do love the soft grey and winter white combos though.


----------



## Fading Fast

Acct2000 said:


> These pictures both look like "pattern matching" for its own sake. While no "rules" may be broken, these ensembles, are way, way, too busy for me.


I don't disagree - certainly, I don't put that many patterns together in my outfits. What I think is going on is something we talk about in this thread now and then: Polo is a fashion brand, which means, in part, it needs to push the envelope, do things that gets the brand talked about, come out with new ideas each year (or several times a year).

That is a different model than the old (pre '80s) Brooks Brothers, which was (with some exceptions) not a fashion brand but a clothing merchant that was selling, in part, the timelessness of its clothes. To be sure, the divide between the two isn't black and white; it's more about where one or the other falls on the continuum with Polo much closer to the fashion end and the old Brooks being much closer to the merchant end.


----------



## drpeter

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> Some of the layered outfits could be worn in sub freezing temps and still leave me hot under the collar if there were no breeze.
> 
> As for the Duke of Windor, did he ever wear the silk tie as belt look? I have tested this look a few times while dressing but never mustered up the courage to walk out the door with this styling.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR


I seem to remember at least one picture of the Duke wearing a tie as a belt, but I cannot find this picture on the web. Fred Astaire, on the other hand, did this a few times, once even with a dinner suit! Here is a lovely image of Astaire with a young lad, doing what he did best:


----------



## Peak and Pine

^
How do you stand on your toes like that?

Anyway, I wear a tie as a belt. Really. But the ties have been modified. I have five. The back blade is measured width-wise at its tip, then the rest of its length is made to conform. This way it plays as a tie for the pants, not a necktie for the pants.


----------



## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> I seem to remember at least one picture of the Duke wearing a tie as a belt, but I cannot find this picture on the web. Fred Astaire, on the other hand, did this a few times, once even with a dinner suit! Here is a lovely image of Astaire with a young lad, doing what he did best:
> 
> View attachment 44278


To be honest, I've never cared to project the Fred Astaire look...I'm more into the Fonzarelli look!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> To be honest, I've never cared to project the Fred Astaire look...I'm more into the Fonzarelli look!


Some of the looks/styles/outfits that work so well on someone like Astaire or Cary Grant work in part because they are Astaire or Cary Grant and have the looks, presence, personality, physique, lifestyle and/or star quality that can carry things off that most of us mere mortals cannot.

I've mentioned this before, but I worked with a guy who was able to wear three or four patterns - and did - in most of his suit-tie-shirt-sweater combos. Yes, he had a very good eye for putting them together, but he also was tall, good looking and had a strong personality that somehow made outfits work on him that would have overwhelmed or looked clownish on others.

It's just another one of those things that you need and "eye" for. And to be sure, we all don't agree when something "out there" works.

For example, Cary Grant looks good IMO in this getup ⇩ (not a fan of the shoes, but he needed the rubber soles for his character's night job) because he's (1) Cary Grant and has the height, body, age (at the time) and looks for it, (2) is playing a wealthy man living on the French Riviera in the 1950s and (3) it fits the scene and vibe of the movie. I doubt one in a hundred men could pull that exact look off today in their everyday life.















Could only find a full, standing body shot in B&W


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> To be honest, I've never cared to project the Fred Astaire look...I'm more into the Fonzarelli look!


Never heard of the fellow. Cosa Nostra, perhaps?


----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

I am 6’1”, 187lbs as of today. I am down 41 lbs from 18 months ago when I started thinking about the need to return to fighting weight.

As a result, many things I could not pull off wearing in the past are beginning to look almost presentable, particularly closer fitting sweaters which in the past would make me look paunchy.

My final goal is 175 lbs and to maintain sub 180. I will have gone from. 44R to a 40-41R and 38 waist to a 34. 

So many things look and fit better now. But the pleats, like in the CG example above, make me look as if I am wearing a parachute. I have a NWT vintage pair of RL silk and linen pleated summer pants I can now fit into but make me feel as if I am wearing a diaper.

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> ^
> How do you stand on your toes like that?
> 
> Anyway, I wear a tie as a belt. Really. But the ties have been modified. I have five. The back blade is measured width-wise at its tip, then the rest of its length is made to conform. This way it plays as a tie for the pants, not a necktie for the pants.


I don't think you can stand on your toes -- unless you are wearing ballet pumps or flats, perhaps? I don't know much about how ballet dancers do it _en pointe_, but the flat toe of their shoes must enable them to stand on their toes. My sense is that, in this picture, the photographer caught that moment when both Astaire and the boy were on their toes. After the shot was taken, they probably sank right back on to their heels or went on to their next move.

I have used old neckties for dressing gowns when I have misplaced or lost the belt! I also have a couple of summer belts that were made out of material taken from neckties, patterned silk as opposed to the surcingle material commonly used for those.


----------



## Fading Fast

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> I am 6'1", 187lbs as of today. I am down 41 lbs from 18 months ago when I started thinking about the need to return to fighting weight.
> 
> As a result, many things I could not pull off wearing in the past are beginning to look almost presentable, particularly closer fitting sweaters which in the past would make me look paunchy.
> 
> My final goal is 175 lbs and to maintain sub 180. I will have gone from. 44R to a 40-41R and 38 waist to a 34.
> 
> So many things look and fit better now. But the pleats, like in the CG example above, make me look as if I am wearing a parachute. I have a NWT vintage pair of RL silk and linen pleated summer pants I can now fit into but make me feel as if I am wearing a diaper.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR


Congratulation on a great effort and achievement.

You're coming in to my territory as a tall slim man (6'1", 150lbs). I am also small boned and have narrow shoulders (you take the good with the bad in life), so some clothes that look good on big men - broad shoulders, large boned - overwhelm me.

However, I can wear some of the slimmer (like your sweater comment) items without looking heavy or "stuffed into" the clothes the way some larger men do even if they get the right size. It takes time, trail and error and, hopefully, a good eye to find out what works for you and to accept that many things that you like on others just won't work for you.

For whatever reason, bold patterns make me look silly or overwhelmed even though I'm told "you have the height for it." My coloring, personality or something just can't handle them. Que sera, sera - I rock grays pretty darn well.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Some of the looks/styles/outfits that work so well on someone like Astaire or Cary Grant work in part because they are Astaire or Cary Grant and have the looks, presence, personality, physique, lifestyle and/or star quality that can carry things off that most of us mere mortals cannot.
> 
> I've mentioned this before, but I worked with a guy who was able to wear three or four patterns - and did - in most of his suit-tie-shirt-sweater combos. Yes, he had a very good eye for putting them together, but he also was tall, good looking and had a strong personality that somehow made outfits work on him that would have overwhelmed or looked clownish on others.
> 
> It's just another one of those things that you need and "eye" for. And to be sure, we all don't agree when something "out there" works.
> 
> For example, Cary Grant looks good IMO in this getup ⇩ (not a fan of the shoes, but he needed the rubber soles for his character's night job) because he's (1) Cary Grant and has the height, body, age (at the time) and looks for it, (2) is playing a wealthy man living in the French Riviera in the 1950s and (3) it fits the scene and vibe of the movie. I doubt one in a hundred men could pull that exact look off today in their everyday life.
> View attachment 44279
> View attachment 44280
> 
> Could only find a full, standing body shot in B&W
> View attachment 44281


Cary Grant has certainly got a great reputation for elegance, like Astaire, although their styles are quite different. One thing I've noticed, in the films and in photos is the narrowness of his shoulders, which makes his head look large relative to his torso. Despite this, he looks very good in clothes, which goes to show that physical disproportion (if that's the right phrase) can be corrected well by a good tailor.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Cary Grant has certainly got a great reputation for elegance, like Astaire, although their styles are quite different. One thing I've noticed, in the films and in photos is the narrowness of his shoulders, which makes his head look large relative to his torso. Despite this, he looks very good in clothes, which goes to show that physical disproportion (if that's the right phrase) can be corrected well by a good tailor.


I've noticed the same and agree with all of this. To wit, Cary Grant and I both have narrow shoulders, that is our only similarity.


----------



## FiscalDean

drpeter said:


> Never heard of the fellow. Cosa Nostra, perhaps?


Fonzie from the TV series Happy Days


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I've noticed the same and agree with all of this. To wit, Cary Grant and I both have narrow shoulders, that is our only similarity.


Come now, @ Fading Fast, I'm sure you're just as elegant and debonair as Mr Grant.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Come now, @ Fading Fast, I'm sure you're just as elegant and debonair as Mr Grant.


:laughing:


----------



## drpeter

FiscalDean said:


> Fonzie from the TV series Happy Days


Thank you. Now I remember him -- I don't watch sitcoms, so I only hear about news from those shows when it is mentioned elsewhere. No idea his full name was Fonzarelli!


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> :laughing:


I was being serious, old fellow.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 44328


The ad pictured above makes me miss my beloved Duffel Coat, passed on to a Michigander back when we first moved to central Florida!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> The ad pictured above makes me miss my beloved Duffel Coat, passed on to a Michigander back when we first moved to central Florida!


My girlfriend got a Goverall duffle for Christmas this year and it immediately became her go-to winter coat.

Also, I see them all the time in movies from the '40s on - a true timeless classic.

Not quite sure what the color is of the one in the Polo ad - it's not a classic navy, but I like it.


----------



## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> My girlfriend got a Goverall duffle for Christmas this year and it immediately became her go-to winter coat.
> 
> Also, I see them all the time in movies from the '40s on - a true timeless classic.
> 
> Not quite sure what the color is of the one in the Polo ad - it's not a classic navy, but I like it.


On my monitor it looks like a deep blue-teal. Interesting.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> The ad pictured above makes me miss my beloved Duffel Coat, passed on to a Michigander back when we first moved to central Florida!


I have two duffle/duffel coats, both of them outstanding: A beige Gloverall Monty, based on the original coat worn by the Field Marshal, and a navy blue John Partridge with a tartan lining, both with hoods, and made of very thick wool, perfect for the more frigid days of a Wisconsin winter. This is what the Monty looks like:

https://www.gloverall.com/products/original-monty-duffle-coat
Here's an image of the Partridge jacket:


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> On my monitor it looks like a deep blue-teal. Interesting.


Gloverall duffel coats (from Gloves and Overall) were actually made by the H&F company after the end of the Second World War, based closely on the one worn by the Field Marshal during the war, which was supplied by a firm that was called Original Montgomery (after the war, presumably) John Partridge designed the first duffel coat back in the 1850s, and the cloth, I believe, came from the town of Duffel near Antwerp, Belgium. I have two duffel coats, one a Partridge and the other a Gloverall. They are absolutely outstanding for very cold winters.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 44392


Hmm, Rugby is both a public school in England, and a sport which likely originated there (sort of like the Eton Wall Game, which did not quite make it to the level of popularity enjoyed by rugger). I wonder what the public school and rugby organizations think about RL's appropriation of the school and the sport. I hope he is not going to try to patent the word Rugby, there will surely be hell to pay.

The next likely RL cultural appropriations:

Cricket (Heaven forbid, it was my game in school and at university)
Badminton (a girls' school in England, where the game was first played)
Lacrosse (RL probably has a line of clothing with this name)
Buzkashi (that great Afghan sport with the freshly-slaughtered goat's head in leather wrap)

Why not political parties too? A line of clothing that would be named after one or more of the following:

The British Communist Party
The Indian Communist Party and all of its umpteen splinter groups (CPI-M, CPI-L, CPI-Mao, CPI- Naxalites, etc)
Whigs
Tories
Republicans
Democrats

I guess he had better avoid the label Trump because there is already a line of clothing in Trump's name ( and a line of booze of some kind too, I think). Trump, litigious to the max, will surely sue old Ralph.

Sorry, one gets carried away. I blame it, and everything else, on that blasted COVID virus.


----------



## Fading Fast

Also, like this one (love the tie), feels Polo to me, but couldn't find any attribution:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 44429


Determination, for sure! However, just as it is ill advised to hook our thumbs in our respective belts (ala Al Bundy), should one be grabbing hold of their Braces and hanging on for dear life? Looks determined, but not attractive.


----------



## London380sl

Fading Fast said:


> Also, like this one (love the tie), feels Polo to me, but couldn't find any attribution:
> View attachment 44430


Combining a pin stripe with a tennis sweater vest? Doesn't work for me.


----------



## Fading Fast

London380sl said:


> Combining a pin stripe with a tennis sweater vest? Doesn't work for me.


I hear ya. I think it would have worked better had the suit been a heavy flannel chalk stripe.


----------



## Fading Fast

These came in an email from Polo over the weekend.


----------



## London380sl

This is much more to my taste


----------



## Old Road Dog

That reminds me of the 80's POLO...that pant model, the Burberry's k.o. trench and the cabled crew. Even the model is vintage 1980, but I don't recall his name. I would like to see much more of Ralph doing this, as opposed to the giant crests and such that no gentleman would ever wear.


----------



## Fading Fast

Cross post with the Tweed thread:


----------



## Old Road Dog

That is the Ralph we know and love...

Just curious: where do you get these photos? All I see on their web page is sale stuff.


----------



## Fading Fast

Old Road Dog said:


> That is the Ralph we know and love...
> 
> Just curious: where do you get these photos? All I see on their web page is sale stuff.


The last one just came from a "ralph lauren" search on Google. That's where most of my pics come from - I have no secret source. That said, the ones a page back came straight out of a Ralph email I got this weekend.

Here's another one that came up today. 









What amazes me is that those "bear" sweaters are very expensive, yet they must sell well as Ralph has several of them for sale every year.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

Since serious biz attire didn't excite ⇧, let's try softer today ⇩


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Since serious biz attire didn't excite ⇧, let's try softer today ⇩
> View attachment 44544


There is much to get excited over looking at today's illustration; the cardigan, those heavily built trousers (that seem somewhat out of sync with that sport coat) and the camera choice. Back in the day, before they got around to automating the SLR camera functions, many of us 'wannabe' photographers went with those automated viewfinder camera designs! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> There is much to get excited over looking at today's illustration; the cardigan, those heavily built trousers (that seem somewhat out of sync with that sport coat) and the camera choice. Back in the day, before they got around to automating the SLR camera functions, many of us 'wannabe' photographers went with those automated viewfinder camera designs! LOL.


One of the nice trends in the last ten or so years has been the return of cardigans and not just for us middle-aged folks, but for the millennials. Young brands like Uniqlo and J.Crew have been carrying them for years now. In NYC, I regularly see them worn by a small number of young men.

I finally feel like I can wear one without looking like I'm from a different era. I try to keep it "fresh" by pairing it with, for example, jeans and sneakers. Also, mine fit slim (not skinny or baggie) to also keep it looking up to date. But heck, it's nice to be able to wear a very versatile item again.


----------



## Oldsarge

And it's nice to be able to crawl into a big, clunky one on a winter's night. Cue the brandy, fireplace and a good book!


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

I love belted jackets with patch pockets. I have far too many in my closet! My signature look.

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 44585


I do love the look of that half belted, brown heather jacket the young lad on the right is wearing!


----------



## Fading Fast

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> I love belted jackets with patch pockets. I have far too many in my closet! My signature look.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR





eagle2250 said:


> I do love the look of that half belted, brown heather jacket the young lad on the right is wearing!


One of the things that jumped out at me from that ad was the jacket you two noted. As a fan of old movies, the style was quite common in the '30 into the '40s.

Another is how good stone chinos, "winter" white sweaters and white sneakers have always looked together.

Finally, I noticed how baggy some of the clothes are (I'd guess late '80s to mid '90s) as the sweaters look too big to my eye (look at how they bunch above the cuffs). However, the chinos, IMO, look about right - not too baggy and not too slim.

Re the jacket. Here's Clark Gable in 1934's "It Happened One Night:"








Not patch but "bellowed" pockets, but best pic I could find in a short search.

P.S. Love the white bucks with red soles.


----------



## Oldsarge

I have a couple. I'm really looking forward to being able to return to wearing them again though with summer approaching, it will probably be a while.


----------



## Fading Fast

Since the shoe one ⇧ might be a dupe, we'll do two today with this ⇩ bonus one


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 44636
> 
> Since the shoe one ⇧ might be a dupe, we'll do two today with this ⇩ bonus one
> View attachment 44637


PRL sold some nice shoe designs. I remember a pair of long wings I bought from them that were put together quite nicely. I got a lot of wear out of those shoes. Regarding the bottom photo, I love the suit and hate the socks!


----------



## FiscalDean

eagle2250 said:


> PRL sold some nice shoe designs. I remember a pair of long wings I bought from them that were put together quite nicely. I got a lot of wear out of those shoes. Regarding the bottom photo, I love the suit and hate the socks!


Call me old school, but I'm not a fan of socks that contrast from the color of pants so much. I tend to go with "conservative fancy" in the same color family as the pants.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> PRL sold some nice shoe designs. I remember a pair of long wings I bought from them that were put together quite nicely. I got a lot of wear out of those shoes. Regarding the bottom photo, I love the suit and hate the socks!


I still have a few pairs of Ralph shoes: a wonderful gum-sole buck and a pair of leather chukkas. Whomever they contract with makes nice shoes.

Edit add: the bucks are ~20 years old and the chukkas ~15. Both have held up incredibly well.


----------



## Old Road Dog

The early (latter 70s into 80s) Polo dress shoes were made primarily by Grenson In the UK. They were excellent. The casual shoe were US-made and the company name escapes me (often mentioned here as a maker of rubber sole shoes), but they were supurb as well and had tassels and sometime gillies like old vintage golf shoes on the laces. Those early British-made shoes had shortened vamps and were quite distinctive. There was a very nice tan leather and lots of brown suede. Very little black. I went years without owning black shoes. Another nice style was a tan, laced granny boot (like a paddock boot) that could be worn with a suit. Very poular with the Polo sales staff.

To my eye, the current Polo shoes seem a bit generic and not nearly as well-made as those mentioned above. I have no idea who makes them, or where.


----------



## London380sl

At least he's wearing soccks.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

London380sl said:


> At least he's wearing soccks.


Point taken. LOL.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 44666


I find myself occasionally tempted by spectator versions of beefroll penny loafers...and this is but one of those times!


----------



## London380sl

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 44666


I would have gone with a red and yellow tie with that color pallet but a great store display nonetheless.
And I agree with eagle - those are tempting spectator beefroll penny loafers.


----------



## Oldsarge

London380sl said:


> I would have gone with a red and yellow tie with that color pallet but a great store display nonetheless.
> And I agree with eagle - those are tempting spectator beefroll penny loafers.


Yes, the tie and that shirt are not soulmates.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Old Road Dog

The tie and shirt combo with the plaid jacket represents an "I am too busy and important to trifle with matching things" attitude that might work in real life on a real wearer, but looks awkward on the display form. Ralph likes this nonchalant attitude in photo ads and window displays.

That doesn't bother me nearly as much as the overly -close fitting jackets that would require at least one size larger in the jacket to accommodate the multiple layers of stuff worn under the jacket. Again, this is shown for effect and would not play out in reality.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Please. Clothes-wise, pretend you saw nothing you're about to see...










Regarding the ethnicity of the model, good looking guy in a dour-y way, but am unfamiliar with the extraction, Aztec, I dunno, chime in, teach me about the world outsida Maine.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Submitting a questionaire with the following, addressed just to me: _do you like this?_

Well its cream all-linen with a narrow-ish collar with a print back-lining making it eminently poppable, so does a bear go number two in the woods?


----------



## Old Road Dog

"I really should change my tie for today. I just realized I've worn the same one every day this week".


----------



## FiscalDean

[QUOTE="Peak and Pine, post: 1951692, me_this?_

Well its cream all-linen with a narrow-ish collar with a print back-lining making it eminently poppable, so does a bear go number two in the woods?

According to my father, the bear did not use the woods, always used the buckwheat.


----------



## Fading Fast

I'd recommend untucking the tie and straightening a bit (or tossing) the PS, but pretty darn classic overall.


----------



## London380sl

They should have used that tie, rather than the blue and yellow one, in the store display.

I agree, the tie should be untucked but, since the purpose of this ad is to sell clothes, you gotta show off that Ralph Lauren Polo belt.🏇


----------



## Peak and Pine

_"So I can't decide, Ma. Should I start out by making clothes, or little tiny cars, like this..."._


----------



## Peak and Pine

From the Fall/Winter 2020 Collection...










I dunno. Maybe with a Fair Isle sweater.


----------



## Oldsarge

Peak and Pine said:


> From the Fall/Winter 2020 Collection...
> 
> View attachment 44783
> 
> 
> I dunno. Maybe with a Fair Isle sweater.


Are there dragons to slay on the Fair Isles?


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## xcubbies

Peak and Pine said:


> From the Fall/Winter 2020 Collection...
> 
> View attachment 44783
> 
> 
> I dunno. Maybe with a Fair Isle sweater.


Pair it with a pair of black Balmorals? Too dressy for Alden tassel loafers.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> One of the nice trends in the last ten or so years has been the return of cardigans and not just for us middle-aged folks, but for the millennials. Young brands like Uniqlo and J.Crew have been carrying them for years now. In NYC, I regularly see them worn by a small number of young men.
> 
> I finally feel like I can wear one without looking like I'm from a different era. I try to keep it "fresh" by pairing it with, for example, jeans and sneakers. Also, mine fit slim (not skinny or baggie) to also keep it looking up to date. But heck, it's nice to be able to wear a very versatile item again.


Looking back on my own sense of clothes and style, I think I started out, when young, being a bit concerned about how I would appear to others, whether the things I wore would be _au courant_. For the most part, I had adopted my own style and the kinds of cut I liked, and in my youth, since I worked with tailors to have shirts and slacks done the way I wanted them, this was easily achieved and at exceptionally low cost. I would have them look at models in adverts, or I would provide paper patterns I designed and cut out for things like collars or cuffs. Once ready-made clothes became the norm, and especially after I got to the US, I began to move in a direction where fairly moderate, conservatively styled jackets and trousers and suits, in classic materials like flannels and worsted and cotton polin and drill, picked up off the rack, became my choice. They call these "timeless" now because they are always _au courant_. And I stopped caring about others' impressions about my clothes, simply wearing colours and cuts and materials I liked. Surprisingly, no one complained about my clothes, and my friends thought I was always well put together!

Because I was reading and educating myself throughout this time, I learned a lot about clothes, and I learned how to select pieces for my wardrobe so that it was very easy for me to put together an ensemble that almost always worked together quite well. I can reach into my closet and pick out a shirt, a tie, a pair of trousers and a jacket almost without thought, and have them fit together very nicely. I think this is because, over time, one's instincts about these matters get to be rather good, and the knowledge of what goes with what becomes almost automatic.

An interesting parallel: Almost exactly identical processes worked for me when I learned to cook. Years ago, I did things by recipe and learned the ingredients and styles specific to various cuisines. Then I began to trust myself more, especially as friends really liked what I made. I began to experiment, mixing ingredients of my own selection, spices and herbs, vegetables and meats, etc. Then I began to cross cuisines, combining items and ingredients from different cultures and cuisines, inventing dishes, and this opened up a world of interesting tastes. This evolution in cooking style is very similar to the evolution of clothing styles. What's more this process of ontogeny, perhaps, recaptures the phylogeny of cuisines, to borrow an idea from biology: One's evolution from rule-bound cook to innovative chef parallels the evolution of a cuisine from its beginnings hundreds of years ago to the more complex state it is in currently.

I think in both cases, we try out different things and come up with our own personal way of doing these things. In writing fiction and poetry, the same general process works -- one experiments, imitates other writers and poets you like, then one begins to find one's own unique voice. At this stage, someone who is familiar with your work will be able to pick it out from other works because they recognize your voice, your style of doing it! No one will mistake fiction by Hemingway for fiction by Updike, or poetry by Tomlinson for poetry by Lowell. And the early imitation and experimentation is absolutely essential to finding your own voice, your distinctive way of doing things.


----------



## drpeter

xcubbies said:


> Pair it with a pair of black Balmorals? Too dressy for Alden tassel loafers.


Or maybe tan bluchers?


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Looking back on my own sense of clothes and style, I think I started out, when young, being a bit concerned about how I would appear to others, whether the things I wore would be _au courant_. For the most part, I had adopted my own style and the kinds of cut I liked, and in my youth, since I worked with tailors to have shirts and slacks done the way I wanted them, this was easily achieved and at exceptionally low cost. I would have them look at models in adverts, or I would provide paper patterns I designed and cut out for things like collars or cuffs. Once ready-made clothes became the norm, and especially after I got to the US, I began to move in a direction where fairly moderate, conservatively styled jackets and trousers and suits, in classic materials like flannels and worsted and cotton polin and drill, picked up off the rack, became my choice. They call these "timeless" now because they are always _au courant_. And I stopped caring about others' impressions about my clothes, simply wearing colours and cuts and materials I liked. Surprisingly, no one complained about my clothes, and my friends thought I was always well put together!
> 
> Because I was reading and educating myself throughout this time, I learned a lot about clothes, and I learned how to select pieces for my wardrobe so that it was very easy for me to put together an ensemble that almost always worked together quite well. I can reach into my closet and pick out a shirt, a tie, a pair of trousers and a jacket almost without thought, and have them fit together very nicely. I think this is because, over time, one's instincts about these matters get to be rather good, and the knowledge of what goes with what becomes almost automatic.
> 
> An interesting parallel: Almost exactly identical processes worked for me when I learned to cook. Years ago, I did things by recipe and learned the ingredients and styles specific to various cuisines. Then I began to trust myself more, especially as friends really liked what I made. I began to experiment, mixing ingredients of my own selection, spices and herbs, vegetables and meats, etc. Then I began to cross cuisines, combining items and ingredients from different cultures and cuisines, inventing dishes, and this opened up a world of interesting tastes. This evolution in cooking style is very similar to the evolution of clothing styles. What's more this process of ontogeny, perhaps, recaptures the phylogeny of cuisines, to borrow an idea from biology: One's evolution from rule-bound cook to innovative chef parallels the evolution of a cuisine from its beginnings hundreds of years ago to the more complex state it is in currently.
> 
> I think in both cases, we try out different things and come up with our own personal way of doing these things. In writing fiction and poetry, the same general process works -- one experiments, imitates other writers and poets you like, then one begins to find one's own unique voice. At this stage, someone who is familiar with your work will be able to pick it out from other works because they recognize your voice, your style of doing it! No one will mistake fiction by Hemingway for fiction by Updike, or poetry by Tomlinson for poetry by Lowell. And the early imitation and experimentation is absolutely essential to finding your own voice, your distinctive way of doing things.


A lot of good stuff - nice post.

One thing that I like about Ivy and Trad, in general, is that most of the items go with most of the other items, so it's pretty easy to put an outfit together from what I have when I add in something. It also makes packing for vacation a lot easier.

I wish I had been more like you and understood the importance of good tailoring early on - that lesson took awhile to learn. I used to say if I had it to do over again, I'd buy less items, but all the items would be of higher quality.

While I still feel that way overall, I'd amend it to say that there's nothing wrong with good, mid-level items if they fit well (through proper sizing or tailoring). I say that in part because no matter how much we try, items of clothes - even classics - tend to reflect the era they were made. I have BB sport coats from the early '90s - classic grey herringbones (can't get more basic than that) - that are simply "bigger" in every way than modern coats (and tailoring them "down" can only do so much).

Hence, no matter how much you spend, many items will still look dated to some extent over time. That's why I think one's wardrobe always needs to be evolving with new items coming in and old ones being retired. Not in a chasing-fashion way, but in a updating-over-time way.

I had a ton of J.Crew, Polo and BB clothes in the '90s and, even if I had them all tailored to look more modern, I'd look very dated if those were all the clothes I wore today.


----------



## Oldsarge

A combination of a good eye for RTW and a skilled alterations tailor can give a man all manner of elegance for a fraction of the cost of bespoke. UpperCrust seems to be the prime example of this.


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> From the Fall/Winter 2020 Collection...
> 
> View attachment 44783
> 
> 
> I dunno. Maybe with a Fair Isle sweater.


LOL. It must take half an hour to put on. But I like the combination of green and black leather.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 44924


Does anyone else feel that the dressiness of a pinned collar calls for trousers more refined than stone hued jeans/khakis? Otherwise, nice!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Does anyone else feel that the dressiness of a pinned collar calls for trousers more refined than stone hued jeans/khakis? Otherwise, nice!


I agree. Robert Redford in "Three Days of the Condor" taught me that a tie, sport coat and jeans are fine together, but to your point, the sport coat and tie (and, by proxy, shirt) need to be on the casual side of the spectrum. I'd also avoid the white collar on a colored shirt as that, to my eye, tilts more dressy.

All that said, and I know I'm kinda contradicting myself, I still like the outfit on the guy in front, but it would be better tweaked our way.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> Does anyone else feel that the dressiness of a pinned collar calls for trousers more refined than stone hued jeans/khakis? Otherwise, nice!


I certainly do. Rules are made to be broken from time to time, and I'm fine with that -- but there's an art to rule-breaking that seems to be missing here.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 44924


Actually, I think the lad in the back, with the Fair Isle sweater and scarf has more style than the other two chaps.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Actually, I think the lad in the back, with the Fair Isle sweater and scarf has more style than the other two chaps.


I think I own that Fair Isle - pretty sure it's a dove grey vest with all the colors in the grey family (from the pic, can't tell if it's a sweater or vest). It was, for me, the most "out there" I'd go for work attire as I used to wear it under a light-grey heavy flannel wool suit I owned.


----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

Looks like a boy band to me....

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## Peak and Pine

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> Looks like a boy band to me....
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR


Yeah. Were they my age back when I was their's they'd have their coats off, a pack o'Luckies rolled up in their sleeves and hunched over a pin ball machine. What an effete bunch.


----------



## xcubbies

eagle2250 said:


> Does anyone else feel that the dressiness of a pinned collar calls for trousers more refined than stone hued jeans/khakis? Otherwise, nice!


Most definitely.


----------



## Fading Fast

Must be late '80s / early '90s when Rugbys were having a moment. I like the sport coats.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## London380sl

Great ensemble. My only criticism is the tucked in sweater but, since this a fashion picture, you gotta show the belt and pants.


----------



## eagle2250

London380sl said:


> Great ensemble. My only criticism is the tucked in sweater but, since this a fashion picture, you gotta show the belt and pants.


...or just an advertisement. I wonder,if Ralph wasn't trying to sell that belt, would he have ucked that sweater into the waistband of those trousers? I think, or perhaps just hope not!


----------



## Fading Fast

London380sl said:


> Great ensemble. My only criticism is the tucked in sweater but, since this a fashion picture, you gotta show the belt and pants.





eagle2250 said:


> ...or just an advertisement. I wonder,if Ralph wasn't trying to sell that belt, would he have ucked that sweater into the waistband of those trousers? I think, or perhaps just hope not!


I think you guys are right, it's done to show off the belt and pants for fashion and sales opportunities (which aren't really distinct).

Here's the crazy thing - I think tucking a sweater in looks off, but darn if those pants and that belt don't look nice. Hence, it kinda works even on a guy who thinks tucking in the sweater is silly.


----------



## Oldsarge

That fussy umbrella does NOT go with the waxed cotton coat.


----------



## Fading Fast

Didn't say it was Ralph, but feels like Ralph to me.


----------



## eagle2250

Oldsarge said:


> That fussy umbrella does NOT go with the waxed cotton coat.


It does indeed appear that he grabbed his Grandmothers umbrella, by mistake I hope, on his way out the door! LOL.


----------



## Old Road Dog

I represented Swaine, Adeney, Brigg umbrellas in the U.S. for a few years. They made the umbrellas for Polo also. That is a golf umbrella in the photo and is perfectly appropriate for the waxed cotton jacket (which we also sold) on the model. A dress umbrella in the UK would invariably be black, but available with a variety of exotic wood crook handles, some with sterling mounts, but always with the engraved _Royal Warrants _band on the handle.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Old Road Dog

One of the best Ralph photos. That jacket model, the _Prince_, was developed primarily for himself. You can see that it has a broader, more padded shoulder and low button stance; a signature model, if you will.


----------



## Peak and Pine

^

I hesitate to post the following, not being prone to anger of any sort, but the following moves me close for this man and I are near in age and he and what he created have been my style icons since '67 and as age advances I may not look all that swell, but I look a helluva lot better than this geez'ed up mess...

.










You're RALPH LAUREN for Ch****t's sake, look, dress and act it. Stand up tall. Get a haircut. Throw everything you've got on in a dumpster. Then stare at the picture below. It's your stuff, borrow some of it..


----------



## Old Road Dog

I'll agree that there is a vast difference in the above two photos of RL. There is an age gap of course of fifteen or more years. As to the casual ensemble, well he might reply that you just don't understand it, to be kind. We all do the best we can, and honestly I haven't seen a photo of myself in the last twenty years that I wouldn't gladly burn.

As Ralph has often said, his clothing represents a dream of how a person would like to look. He certainly can afford to not care but he clearly does. He is dressing for himself not for an audience.

And yes, that looks like a Covid-era non-haircut. I'm not sure if his long-time barber, Clemente, is still plying his trade. I had one haircut from him many years ago and was not thrilled, but many in the clothing trade were glad to pay his price for a haircut so that they could say they went to Ralph's barber.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Old Road Dog said:


> As to the casual ensemble, well *he might reply that you just don't understand it,* to be kind.


.

And I would reply to him, Get off my screen, you're giving me hic-ups. I understand your points and I know you have intimate knowledge of him and his business. But you're sticking up for a glimpse at the past and when I was a kid, maybe nine or ten, I remember thinking how much I disliked the way old people looked, hunched often, expensive worn-to-tatters duds (a New England thing), reeking of burnt pipe smoke and Absorbine Junior, and vowing to try and avoid all that when I reach the age I currently am. Success though is in the eye of my mirror which I do not trust, but do, as you say, the best one can. However, I am not Ralph Lauren. I have no one to pull me aside and say Are you kidding? He does, living mirrors in the form of a wife and kids and associates...and they let him out on the lawn looking like that? He is not a mere mortal, he is Ralph Lauren, and no more would Steve Jobs had he lived to old age be caught pounding away on a Commodore Vic or Elon driving a s*** bucket Chevy Aveo, all-in-caps RALPH LAUREN should not be unleashed wearing the complete opposite of how a super creative Bronx boy in the 50s thought an old guy should present.


----------



## Fading Fast

Cross post from the Tweed thread:








Pretty sure it's Ralph, but it didn't say that. If not, very Ralph-like.


----------



## drpeter

In Ancient Egypt, pharaohs used to be elevated to semi-divine status, a kind of link between the gods and humans. LOL: Is Ralph being slowly elevated to a demi-god of fashion? Notice that we do not even use his last name (Lauren) anymore, even though his last name is made up. That _could _be a sign of incipient divinity! This could lead to a whole series of adverts with RL in pharaonic getup presiding over acolytes dressed in trad outfits...


----------



## drpeter

For a different sort of style icon, consider the Dalai Lama. Or DL as opposed to RL, if you wish. I think he knows how to dress really well. All right, it isn't quite trad. Well, maybe Tibetan Trad? Here is the old boy, Just look at the two colours he is wearing, a dark saffron-red and a light turmeric-yellow -- it is almost divine in its perfection and its simplicity, don't you think? You have to admit he looks MUCH better than RL up there in jeans and distressed everything. Plus, he looks terrific for his age and has a splendid and wicked sense of humour. Doesn't seem to have a barber problem either.


----------



## drpeter

By the way, I think Alan Flusser (AF) is a Buddhist of some sort -- this is old information from one of his books (most of which I have in my library). So he may or may not be of that persuasion now.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 45068


Elegant. The only tiny quarrel I would have is the extra padding at the shoulder -- but that's just my personal preference.

It would be great to see the Prince of Wales check up close. There is a certain shade of red that goes beautifully with the light grey in this kind of check. I remember seeing an image of an Edward Sexton jacket that hit it just right. Red windowpane on grey -- just beautiful and delightfully understated.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> For a different sort of style icon, consider the Dalai Lama. Or DL as opposed to RL, if you wish. I think he knows how to dress really well. All right, it isn't quite trad. Well, maybe Tibetan Trad? Here is the old boy, Just look at the two colours he is wearing, a dark saffron-red and a light turmeric-yellow -- it is almost divine in its perfection and its simplicity, don't you think? You have to admit he looks MUCH better than RL up there in jeans and distressed everything. Plus, he looks terrific for his age and has a splendid and wicked sense of humour. Doesn't seem to have a barber problem either.
> 
> View attachment 45130


This is my only (very small and unimportant) DL story. Years back, when he was in NYC, my girlfriend and I were walking our dog in Central Park and saw the DL. He was walking with just one person, no crowd, no visible security (I assume it was there though). We were going north on the same path that he was going south and we passed by. There's something powerful to seeing an important figure that way. That's it, that's my one and only DL story.



drpeter said:


> Elegant. The only tiny quarrel I would have is the extra padding at the shoulder -- but that's just my personal preference.
> 
> It would be great to see the Prince of Wales check up close. There is a certain shade of red that goes beautifully with the light grey in this kind of check. I remember seeing an imaged of an Edward Sexton jacket that hit it just right. Red windowpane on grey -- just beautiful and delightfully understated.


I agree, outstanding look, but the padded shoulders bug me a bit, but I'm a natural-shoulder guy. I get what he was going for; however, it still doesn't work for me. But like you, it's a tiny quarrel as, overall, he looks darn good in that great-looking suit.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 45180


Were Ralph to put socks on the young gentleman with the navy blazer, he would have a winner, but the other fellow with the madras jacket is a 'hot mess!'


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Were Ralph to put socks on the young gentleman with the navy blazer, he would have a winner, but the other fellow with the madras jacket is a 'hot mess!'


I agree. While, I'm okay with no-socks with some casual shoes and some casual outfits, the look doesn't work with that dressy rig nor with saddle shoes, IMO.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I agree. While, I'm okay with no-socks with some casual shoes and some casual outfits, the look doesn't work with that dressy rig nor with saddle shoes, IMO.


I have trouble wearing almost any kind of shoes without socks. The insides of shoes do not feel good against the skin of my feet. On the other hand, I am fine with open-toed leather sandals (Birkenstocks style) on bare feet, as long as there is no strap that winds across the back of the feet, cutting into the Achilles tendon. Just a personal thing.

In Ian Fleming's novel _Thunderball_, James Bond arrives in Nassau, and meets Domino, the girlfriend of the arch-villain Emilio Largo (played beautifully in Terence Young's film by Adolfo Celi, Argentine/Italian actor). She gives him the once-over, and Bond is wearing a very dark blue single-breasted suit, cream silk shirt, black knitted tie and a pair of black, saddle-stitched leather moccasins on bare feet, his "concession to the tropics". This is pretty much basic warm-weather uniform for 007. The suit would be made of tropical worsted. The one thing that makes me wince a little even now as I read the description is the bare feet! Somehow a suit and tie does not go with bare feet whether encased in shoes or sandals. Perhaps Fleming could have lent his hero a pair of fine, thin silk socks to go with that cream silk shirt? Or a pair of Bri-Nylon socks (I know that sounds so dated now).


----------



## Peak and Pine

Never knew that not wearing socks with loafers or with summer shoes in the summer was a _look._ Thought it was just something you did. You know, like not wearing a wool sweater.


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Peak and Pine

Not 100% sure this is Ralph Lauren...


----------



## Peak and Pine

Unaffected...


----------



## Peak and Pine

Affected...


----------



## Fading Fast

Just guessing, but this looks like an ad from the now-shut-down Rugby line. Note the coat in front: it looks like a classic reversible wool on one side / raincoat on the other.

Had one decades ago that was great for business travel in the days when businessmen wore traditional overcoats in cold and raincoats in wet weather as you only needed one garment for both.

Was it perfect - no. Like most "combinations" it made compromises, but still, a pretty smart item.

Here's Ryan O'Neil wearing one in "Love Story".

Pic one - wool side out / pic two - raincoat side out / pic three - best shot of the full coat I could find


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> Not 100% sure this is Ralph Lauren...
> 
> View attachment 45223


And then, there's this fellow:


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> Affected...
> 
> View attachment 45225


Those patches seem gratuitous.


----------



## Oldsarge

drpeter said:


> Those patches seem gratuitous.


At the very least!


----------



## Peak and Pine

A reminder that this is the Ralph Lauren thread, so why all the non-Ralph schmaltz above? _Love Story ??? _ Really now.

Our Man as he used to be...










Below, from the upcoming fall/winter campaign. (Yeesh? Join me here).


----------



## xcubbies

I'm sure that at some point someone in the Trad forum pointed out that traditional clothing is largely practical and simple, with few superfluous affectations or gizmos. Sometimes we have a tendency to drift from those principles.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

Posting mainly for the Polo coat (and the car and the beautiful road).


----------



## Oldsarge

Peak and Pine said:


> A reminder that this is the Ralph Lauren thread, so why all the non-Ralph schmaltz above? _Love Story ??? _ Really now.
> 
> Our Man as he used to be...
> 
> View attachment 45254
> 
> 
> Below, from the upcoming fall/winter campaign. (Yeesh? Join me here).
> 
> View attachment 45255


A _tucked in_ suede jacket? Seriously? Someone take the photo stylist out behind the studio--with a yardstick!


----------



## smmrfld

Oldsarge said:


> A _tucked in_ suede jacket? Seriously? Someone take the photo stylist out behind the studio--with a yardstick!


That appears to be an overshirt, not a jacket.


----------



## Peak and Pine

^

Still.
Plus the zipper on those pants is approaching wet suit length. I probably shouldn't have posted that pic, but that's what you get when you put _refugee style_ in the search box.


----------



## Fading Fast

I was about to run past this pic as the sweater was too fussy/confusing for me, but then I noticed that what I thought was a sport coat was really part of an outstanding suit. Looks like a heavy grey Tweed herringbone with patch pockets and swelled edges.

I own that belt in a few colors as they were on heavy sale in the flagship Polo store on Madison fifteen or so years ago (with this, that and the "extra" discount, I think I bought two of them for about 80% off). I've worn it, as shown, with a heavy Tweed suit, as it, IMO, is too heavy itself for lighter suits. The brownish-cordavanish one I have also goes well with casual chinos.


----------



## Fading Fast

For an eyewear ad, Ralph advertised a lot of his products in addition to the frames: shirt, tie, suit, watch (pretty sure that's from his watch line), cufflink (I'm guessing that's his) and pocket square.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 45347
> 
> For an eyewear ad, Ralph advertised a lot of his products in addition to the frames: shirt, tie, suit, watch (pretty sure that's from his watch line), cufflink (I'm guessing that's his) and pocket square.


Ralph was indeed a conflicted man; part rebel and the rest, feather merchant! Gotta give him credit, as he certainly made some money. LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Ralph was indeed a conflicted man; part rebel and the rest, feather merchant! Gotta give him credit, as he certainly made some money. LOL.


"Feather merchant -" I had never heard that phrase before. Looked it up; it's a neat one.

Part of what I like about Ralph is that he enjoys his money in a way that makes me believe he really enjoys the things he acquires - the cars, homes, clothes, etc. - not to be showy or greedy, but because they fit an aesthetic he loved when he was growing up poor. I always feel he'd be happy if you could have these things too.

I could be all wrong (I don't kid myself, what do I really know about him?), but he doesn't strike me as obnoxious or arrogant, but more as what we claim to love in this country - a poor kid with a dream who made good through hard work by giving the public something he believed it wanted. A Horatio Alger story. Any-who, it's what I like to believe about him as I'm shelling out money to him in his stores.


----------



## Fading Fast

Since either or both might be a dupe, we'll go with two for today and hope one isn't.


----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

Fading Fast said:


> "Feather merchant -" I had never heard that phrase before. Looked it up; it's a neat one.
> 
> Part of what I like about Ralph is that he enjoys his money in a way that makes me believe he really enjoys the things he acquires - the cars, homes, clothes, etc. - not to be showy or greedy, but because they fit an aesthetic he loved when he was growing up poor. I always feel he'd be happy if you could have these things too.
> 
> I could be all wrong (I don't kid myself, what do I really know about him?), but he doesn't strike me as obnoxious or arrogant, but more as what we claim to love in this country - a poor kid with a dream who made good through hard work by giving the public something he believed it wanted. A Horatio Alger story. Any-who, it's what I like to believe about him as I'm shelling out money to him in his stores.


I have to agree with the sentiment expressed in the recent documentary, that RL is up there with Disney as an American creative force who packaged nostalgia in a way that created a "new" marketing image of America's "perfect" past.

Brilliant man.

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 45486


Tie tucked into waist band?

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 45486


Very nice, on all counts...except perhaps for that tucked in tie blade!


----------



## Fading Fast

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> Tie tucked into waist band?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR





eagle2250 said:


> Very nice, on all counts...except perhaps for that tucked in tie blade!


I agree. I think the general consensus in this thread has been that Polo does that to show off the belt or belt buckle. Basically, it's a merchandising/marketing decision trumping style. That said, I remember one example where it was tucked in, in a Polo ad, on a belt-less waistband - but maybe Polo wanted to show that feature off.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 45274
> 
> Posting mainly for the Polo coat (and the car and the beautiful road).


I have the identical coat! It is lovely, made of beige camel-hair, double-breasted and warm, but it is _not _made by Ralph Lauren. Once again the term polo coat, like the polo shirt, has unfortunately become confounded with Lauren's brand name. The name for the coat, like the name for the shirt, predates Ralph and his company. These coats, usually belted, were worn originally by polo players to keep warm between chukkers (from the Hindi word _chukker_ meaning round). Here is some information:

https://www.gentlemansgazette.com/polo-coat/


----------



## Peak and Pine

drpeter said:


> Once again the term polo coat, like the polo shirt, has unfortunately become confounded with Lauren's brand name.


Not here. We have a long-running thread dedicated to the non-Lauren polo and pics of various often pop up in other threads. I think the traditional polos do not have a belt, i. e., buckle and loops, but a tie like on a robe.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> Not here. We have a long-running thread dedicated to the non-Lauren polo and pics of various often pop up in other threads. I think the traditional polos do not have a belt, i. e., buckle and loops, but a tie like on a robe.


A tie is what I meant, and not a buckle-style belt. I stand corrected, inaccurate description on my part. And I am glad this forum has a thread devoted to the polo coat -- I did not do a search, I was merely commenting on the RL Polo coat.


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 45593


Gold chain, unbuttoned shirt, shaved chest....my wife would throw me out.

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## Old Road Dog

Is that an "official" Polo ad? Rather low-brow, isn't it?


----------



## Oldsarge

Old Road Dog said:


> Is that an "official" Polo ad? Rather low-brow, isn't it?


Dunno. I suspect so because the polo logo is so prominent in the photo.


----------



## eagle2250

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> Gold chain, unbuttoned shirt, shaved chest....my wife would throw me out.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR


LOL, it's comforting to know our respective SWMBO's will keep us on the straight and narrow and well out of trouble! It gives real meaning to the term "our better halves."


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 45643
> View attachment 45642


Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but shorts with shirts and neckties remind me of the one locale where I've seen this combination used: The old police force in Bermuda, Jamaica and other places in the West Indies. In fact, I still remember one of the police officers who makes a brief appearance somewhere in the film _Dr No_, in a uniform with khaki shorts, full sleeve jacket, and a white shirt and dark tie. The whole getup looks a bit silly to me, and I hope I haven't offended anyone.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Maybe I'm just old-fashioned, but shorts with shirts and neckties remind me of the one locale where I've seen this combination used: The old police force in Bermuda, Jamaica and other places in the West Indies. In fact, I still remember one of the police officers who make a brief appearance somewhere in the film _Dr No_, in a uniform with khaki shorts, full sleeve jacket, and a white shirt and dark tie. The whole getup looks a bit silly to me, and I hope I haven't offended anyone.


Both of the the outfits pictured today struck me as over-the-top ads not meant to be taken too seriously as something someone would wear. Some meaningful amount of Ralph's ads (and his window displays at the flagship Madison Avenue store) are like this: a lot of very "Ralphy" clothes combined in one outfit that only works if you live in some mythical "Ralphy" world somewhere. I think most people kinda chuckle at the ads, but also find individual items in them that they like.

P.S., Purely from memory (which can be faulty), I think I know the scene and policeman from "Dr. No" that you are referencing.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 45643
> View attachment 45642


Nice ad, but what's with that mid-calf length storm coat the guy in the top photo is wearing. Seems out of place with that rig...or perhaps the rig is just out of place on the watercraft? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Nice ad, but what's with that mid-calf length storm coat the guy in the top photo is wearing. Seems out of place with that rig...or perhaps the rig is just out of place on the watercraft? :icon_scratch:


It's funny, I couldn't quite figure that coat out either - I enlarged the picture, etc., but still was confused. As I mentioned above, I think it's just an intentionally exaggerated ad from Ralph; I don't think it's expected that anyone (or hardly anyone) would really dress that way.


----------



## Oldsarge

I certainly hope no one would.


----------



## Old Road Dog

Need I remind everyone that Ralph typically wears jeans with his formal wear ( except on rare occasions)? I recall the first time he did this back in the 70's, and sure enough, a few wannabees soon did so afterwards. Yes...there is a double standard at work in this case.


----------



## London380sl

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 45541


I'm wearing those exact sneakers right now. Truthfully they are a pretty mediocre sneaker for comfort. I much prefer All Birds.


----------



## Fading Fast

London380sl said:


> I'm wearing those exact sneakers right now. Truthfully they are a pretty mediocre sneaker for comfort. I much prefer All Birds.


I understand. In my case, I developed flat feet in my early 40s (10-ish years ago). Since then, I've used an arch support (Dr. Scholl's arch support) in every shoe that doesn't have a strong arch. With that support in, sneakers like Ralph's - flat rubber bottom, simple canvas uppers - are almost as comfortable as my modern, well-built workout sneakers.

Without that arch support, I couldn't wear the old-style sneaker any more. But I get your point. Even before I developed flat feet, I could feel that modern sneakers were more comfortable.

That said, what I do like about the old versus the new sneaker is, yes, the aesthetic, but also its unconstructed upper. It feels lighter or simpler or something to me. As noted, there's no question that the new sneakers have their advantages, but for just walking around in the summer, I still love the old rubber and canvas ones.


----------



## Fading Fast

Didn't say Ralph, but looks Ralph runway to me.


----------



## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 45687
> 
> Didn't say Ralph, but looks Ralph runway to me.


Could be J.Crew.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 45751


If one is going to wear a sport coat, they should wear a proper collared shirt beneath it. While a turtle neck is ok, a collar is even better. Just my opinion.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> If one is going to wear a sport coat, they should wear a proper collared shirt beneath it. While a turtle neck is ok, a collar is even better. Just my opinion.


I simply don't understand the rules/thoughts/style of the ascot or kerchief worn around the neck for men. No one I've know or seen in my life has ever worn one (until now as a face mask), so I have no sense of how it should work or look. It always stands out to me in a not great way, other than when this man wore it in "To Catch a Thief," but then, he's Cary Grant.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> I simply don't understand the rules/thoughts/style of the ascot or kerchief worn around the neck for men. No one I've know or seen in my life has ever worn one (until now as a face mask), so I have no sense of how it should work or look. It always stands out to me in a not great way, other than when this man wore it in "To Catch a Thief," but then, he's Cary Grant.
> View attachment 45754


My friend, when you are right, you are absolutely right. Perhaps I will pop the "To Catch A Thief" DVD tonight and swmbo and I can watch that classic one more time!


----------



## Oldsarge

I kind of like it. My MIL says it makes me look like a millionaire yachtsman. And considering how many millionaire yachtsmen she has known in her life, I will accept her opinion. Her member number in the San Diego Yacht Club is in the low double digits, maybe single.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 45805


Now that is the right way for Ralph to advertise his belts in conjunction with sweaters worn under sport coats...just rest the waistband of the sweater on the top edge of the belt, rather than tucking the sweater into the trouser waistband!


----------



## Oldsarge

I'm not sure it's really from Ralph but it looks pretty Ralphy to me.


----------



## drpeter

Old Road Dog said:


> Need I remind everyone that Ralph typically wears jeans with his formal wear ( except on rare occasions)? I recall the first time he did this back in the 70's, and sure enough, a few wannabees soon did so afterwards. Yes...there is a double standard at work in this case.


I know breaking the rules can often be good, provided one knows the rules and one also knows how to break them. Ralph may be a demi-god in this business, and taste is certainly an individual matter, but I really cannot see how wearing jeans with formal clothes is in good taste or aesthetically appealing. This is especially surprising since he is the purveyor of an entire line of clothing that centers on clearly English ideas of taste. What might he do next, wear a white dinner jacket and black tie, with bermuda shorts and sandals? Or a white tie with toreador pants, espadrilles and a crimson cape? This list could go on. At some point, what starts as creative rule-breaking can slide into buffoonery, and RL's approach certainly seems to run that risk.


----------



## Peak and Pine

This is a picture of a shark being jumped.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I simply don't understand the rules/thoughts/style of the ascot or kerchief worn around the neck for men. No one I've know or seen in my life has ever worn one (until now as a face mask), so I have no sense of how it should work or look. It always stands out to me in a not great way, other than when this man wore it in "To Catch a Thief," but then, he's Cary Grant.
> View attachment 45754


I am not sure about kerchiefs, but there are proper ways to wear an ascot, including methods to tie it that are actually simpler than those for knotting a four-in-hand or bowtie. From my personal perspective, here is an example: Ceremonial dress in Indian Army regiments -- very colourful and full of decorative details -- always requires an ascot (unless one is wearing a necktie). The operating principle is that no area of the body should be exposed and show bare skin except the face. So gloves cover the hands, the rest of the body is covered by the ceremonial uniform, and, if wearing a shirt with an open collar, the neck is covered by a regimental ascot, usually in regimental colours.

As for the history of the ascot and its descent from the stock, worn around the neck in previous centuries, Bruce Boyer provides a lively account in the second chapter of his first book, _Elegance_.

Well, would you buy a used battle tank from one of these chaps? They aren't in ceremonial gear, just summer uniforms, but you get the idea with the ascots. Can you tell that the two young men flanking the Brigadier (judging by what I can see of the gorget patches) are brothers?


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## kliffjumper123

drpeter said:


> Perfectly reasonable. I think one should wear whatever style pleases one, and to hell with fashion! I have both kinds, pleated and flat front, and I like them both. I believe they both look fine on me, and no one has told me otherwise so far. Regarding comfort, as long as the trousers have an 11-inch rise, I am comfortable, whether I am wearing pleated trousers or flat fronts. Shorter rises are always uncomfortable, and I don't care for pants which sit low on the waist, in the teenage hipster style.
> 
> The flat fronts I find ideal are the Air Force Blues -- regulation trousers in wool or wool mixture. They have a nice high rise, are snug but not overly tight about the waist and hips, and have a very trim, neat silhouette with a comfortable cuff circumference (18" or so). The heavier winter-weight (100% wool) Army Olive Greens are also great -- they are similar in structure to the AF Blues, only a bit looser perhaps in the thigh and leg. I have several pairs of both kinds of trousers, Air Force and Army styles. They go very well with Harris tweed jackets (tic weave, herringbone) and with houndstooth or district check sports jackets.
> 
> What I'd give my eyeteeth for: US Army Pinks!!! I am hopeful that in very recent times, the Army is said to be considering going back to them, starting this year. They were decommissioned (if that's the right word) around 1945 or so, I think, and are scarce. A pair turns up once in a while on eBay. Here is some information, and a picture that shows the trousers (only partially) for both men and women and also a skirt and pumps outfit for women:
> 
> https://www.armytimes.com/news/your...ision-on-the-iconic-pinks-and-greens-uniform/


If you're interested in a pair of US Army ''Pinks'' then take a look at the ones by Eastman Leather Clothing: 
https://www.eastmanleather.com/trousers-officers-pinks-usaaf-regulation-issue-p-125.html


----------



## Fading Fast

And a neat distaff Polo ad:


----------



## Old Road Dog

The decision to return to the earlier vintage Army uniforms has already been made and they are in use.


----------



## drpeter

kliffjumper123 said:


> If you're interested in a pair of US Army ''Pinks'' then take a look at the ones by Eastman Leather Clothing:
> https://www.eastmanleather.com/trousers-officers-pinks-usaaf-regulation-issue-p-125.html


Thank you @kliffjumper123. I've sent them an inquiry. The product looks fine, although my waist size appears to be out of stock. And shipping from the UK will likely be a substantial amount. We'll see how it goes.

I'm surprised that there is no one in the US making similar products of these old US Army "Pinks".


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> What is with that gold hued medallion attached to the chain that runs through the button hole on the gentleman's lapel and drops down into his jackets breast pocket? The breast pocket would be a funny place to carry a pocket watch!


As most know, I work from home (not a new thing as I have since 2012) and keep TCM on in the background most of the time. Yesterday, it was running a bunch of those '60s beach movies (plenty of eye candy, but not much story).

I looked up during a scene in the 1967 movie "Don't Make Waves" to see an executive pull a pocketwatch out of his suit jacket's breast pocket (the watch was attached to a chain threaded through his lapel button hole).

I took some quick and terrible pics of it, but am glad I did as I couldn't find any pics of it at all on line. So, here is proof that, at least in the movies, some people were still doing this with their pocket watches as late as 1967.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> As most know, I work from home (not a new thing as I have since 2012) and keep TCM on in the background most of the time. Yesterday, it was running a bunch of those '60s beach movies (plenty of eye candy, but not much story).
> 
> I looked up during a scene in the 1967 movie "Don't Make Waves" to see an executive pull a pocketwatch out of his suit jacket's breast pocket (the watch was attached to a chain threaded through his lapel button hole).
> 
> I took some quick and terrible pics of it, but am glad I did as I couldn't find any pics of it at all on line. So, here is proof that, at least in the movies, some people were still doing this with their pocket watches as late as 1967.
> View attachment 45977
> 
> View attachment 45978


Just maybe I could get some minimal use out of a pocket watch...I do like that idea!


----------



## Peak and Pine

A brief discussion of @Fading Fast's latest Ralph Lauren post, shown again below...








.

I get the jeans and sh***y boots because after all if the task at hand is making peanut butter busts of George Washington you may get some onya. However, cold as it may be inside that ramshackle loft where you ply this dubious trade, unless that extremely-fine, 2K Polo tweed o'coat is interwoven with Kevlar, isn't it just as susceptible to a blast of ricocheting Jif?


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Just maybe I could get some minimal use out of a pocket watch...I do like that idea!


The funny thing is that most people under 40 (and many over) now use a rectangular pocket watch that they pull out when they want to know the time.

I used to be a daily wristwatch wearer, now, about half the time, I just use my cellphone which, for this function, is basically a rectangular pocket watch.

So, in a way, the smartphone took us back a generation in how we "carry" time with us.

I've used a pocket watch now and then, and it works fine, the only problem is they are pretty heavy so you're aware of it in your pocket (that might go away with daily use though). Also, mine require you to open the case, so it's another step, not a big deal, but you can't just glance down to see the time.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 46031


A handsome coat and a stylish gentleman (or should that be the other way around? In any event, well done!


----------



## Old Road Dog

It is surprising to see how long those PRL topcoats were styled in the 70-80's. I remember wearing several iterations of them, and they were uncommonly lengthy, even for that time. A bit of an overreach perhaps, but warm!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> A handsome coat and a stylish gentleman (or should that be the other way around? In any event, well done!


What do you think of the flap over the breast pocket?


----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

These are sized huge! There is a DB RLPL caped coat 40R on eBay at the moment with a 27” chest measurement. That is ridiculous.

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## Fading Fast

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> These are sized huge! There is a DB RLPL caped coat 40R on eBay at the moment with a 27" chest measurement. That is ridiculous.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR


Is it from the '90s, as that's when I noticed items started to get cut huge? Shoulder-wise, I've been a 40L my entire life, yet the clothes in the '90s that fit my shoulders (40L) had tones of extra chest material; whereas, today, the cuts are pretty tight (but the shoulders of a 40L still [pretty much] fit the same).

Sitting in my closet today is a 40L BB sport coat from the early '90s that fits fine in the shoulders, but the chest (and arms) have a lot of extra material versus my recently purchased 40L sport coats.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> What do you think of the flap over the breast pocket?


Given the choice, I would opt to go without the flap pocket, but if the flap pocket was the only way one could buy the coat, the flap would not have stopped me. I think it might be the look of absolute comfort on Ralph's face, but I really like that coat.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Given the choice, I would opt to go without the flap pocket, but if the flap pocket was the only way one could buy the coat, the flap would not have stopped me. I think it might be the look of absolute comfort on Ralph's face, but I really like that coat.


Pretty much agree with everything right down to Ralph's enthusiasm.


----------



## Fading Fast

Real Ralph









And Polo fantasy world


----------



## Old Road Dog

Two extremes of the Polo evolution are shown above; Ralph in the 70's at the first blush of his success; and then current Polo, almost fifty years on. Between those data points lies the stuff of which we speak. Noteable, even to those who scoff at pedigrees or choose to dress like their grandfathers.


----------



## Fading Fast

Old Road Dog said:


> Two extremes of the Polo evolution are shown above; Ralph in the 70's at the first blush of his success; and then current Polo, almost fifty years on. Between those data points lies the stuff of which we speak. Noteable, even to those who scoff at pedigrees or choose to dress like their grandfathers.


Interesting points.

What struck me in the pic of Ralph was the very wide lapels with the pretty narrow tie, not something I would have thought someone like Ralph would have done, especially since one of his first successes was selling wide ties to Bloomingdales.


----------



## Old Road Dog

I pondered that point also. My guess is that the jacket may be somewhat earlier vintage than the tie, although I don't recall ties that narrow from Ralph except until recent years. He looks mid-to-late 40's in the photo and is 80-ish now. Guess at year of photo: 1985. Any other guesses?


----------



## Peak and Pine

Old Road Dog said:


> He looks mid-to-late 40's in the photo... Guess at year of photo: 1985. Any other guesses?


He's 35 max and it's 1974. Guesses both. He gray'ed early. Like me. He's wearing a wide lapel tweed, then in style, but a short collar shirt and a medium width tie, both always in style. Nothing appears incongruent to me, except I've never liked lapels even close to that width, or a throat latch that can't be hidden.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Fading Fast said:


> ...especially since one of his first successes was selling wide ties to Bloomingdales.


You sure about that? Selling ties to Blooms yes, but _wide_ ties? The clothing line dates to '67, so he was probably peddling ties in '64, '65 or '66. No wide ties in those years.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Additional comment on Ralph Lauren picture, now that I've found my glasses.

He's wearing jeans, close to worn through at the knee. How prescient. Damn it. He's wearing a shirt with three button cuffs, something I've never seen. Must be a 70s excess thing. He's left one of his jacket's cuff buttons undone. That means something negative to some here, tho I'm not sure why. He's got raccoon eyes. Get some sleep, there's hard work ahead becoming the most beloved designer in America, ever.


----------



## Old Road Dog

The shirt is a western-style with pearl snaps....one of Ralph's go-to items for personal wear (with any outfit). I noticed the Rolex watch; and doubt he has worn that in many years. Working button holes in jacket sleeves are a "thing". I like them, and having one unbuttoned is the whole point, or at least was at that time.


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 46186
> 
> View attachment 46188


Is that a rust suede jacket you are treating us with? If, it is very nice.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Money-saving tip:
No need to buy these pants from Ralph Lauren. Just put on an old pair of white pants and roll around on a wet newspaper.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Caution:
Do not wear this to the pool hall. Or anyplace bikers hang out.


----------



## Peak and Pine

For when the Air Force refuses to let you join. Wear this and make believe.

_Previous three photos from the Polo® Spring 2018 collection._


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 46235
> 
> For when the Air Force refuses to let you join. Wear this and make believe.
> 
> _Previous three photos from the Polo® Spring 2018 collection._


Looks more like a Maytag repairman to me? Just saying. LOL.


----------



## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 46245


This is more like it.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 46245


I do so love that tie!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Interesting points.
> 
> What struck me in the pic of Ralph was the very wide lapels with the pretty narrow tie, not something I would have thought someone like Ralph would have done, especially since one of his first successes was selling wide ties to Bloomingdales.


What struck me, on the other hand, is the unbuttoned surgeon's cuff of his tweed jacket, perhaps to show (off) that the jacket is bespoke or custom. That sort of thing is considered a tad arriviste, isn't it?


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 46273


A civilian wearing a big, gaudy crest on a blazer seems to me to be more than just a bit hokey, but Ralph has consistently pushed such chicanery, but then, "he who has the money, does frequently make the rules!


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> What struck me, on the other hand, is the unbuttoned surgeon's cuff of his tweed jacket, perhaps to show (off) that the jacket is bespoke or custom. That sort of thing is considered a tad arriviste, isn't it?


I guess so. I was told at some point by someone (yup, that's what I got) that it was like leaving the bottom button of vest undone, but I don't know.

I think, as you said, showing off that it's custom is probably the reason. If so, then it seems like bragging to me.

It's quieted down some, but a few years back, a lot of RTW sport coats and suits were made with working buttons. Of course, that made it very hard to alter the sleeve length so the industry seems to have moved away from that the past few years.



eagle2250 said:


> A civilian wearing a big, gaudy crest on a blazer seems to me to be more than just a bit hokey, but Ralph has consistently pushed such chicanery, but then, "he who has the money, does frequently make the rules!


Agreed, Ralph does a lot of that and other quirky things like the giant polo horse or a giant teddy bear on a (very expensive) cashmere sweater or a teddy bear on the face of a $2000 watch (!) or a huge crest on a rugby shirt.

Since he makes a lot of those type of items year in and year out, they must sell.

That said, I rarely see anyone wearing those items, so who's buying them?

Who buys this $2150 watch:








https://www.ralphlauren.com/men-acc.../Watches#start=1&cgid=men-accessories-watches


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> What is with that gold hued medallion attached to the chain that runs through the button hole on the gentleman's lapel and drops down into his jackets breast pocket? The breast pocket would be a funny place to carry a pocket watch!


This is the best pic I could find, but it's still hard to see - sorry. That said, I'm pretty sure actor Joe E. Brown (center) has a pocket watch in his breast pocket attached to a chain that runs through the lapel button hole and has a fob on the end.

From the 1935 movie "Alibi Ike:"


----------



## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> I guess so. I was told at some point by someone (yup, that's what I got) that it was like leaving the bottom button of vest undone, but I don't know.
> 
> I think, as you said, showing off that it's custom is probably the reason. If so, then it seems like bragging to me.
> 
> It's quieted down some, but a few years back, a lot of RTW sport coats and suits were made with working buttons. Of course, that made it very hard to alter the sleeve length so the industry seems to have moved away from that the past few years.
> 
> Agreed, Ralph does a lot of that and other quirky things like the giant polo horse or a giant teddy bear on a (very expensive) cashmere sweater or a teddy bear on the face of a $2000 watch (!) or a huge crest on a rugby shirt.
> 
> Since he makes a lot of those type of items year in and year out, they must sell.
> 
> That said, I rarely see anyone wearing those items, so who's buying them?
> 
> Who buys this $2150 watch:
> View attachment 46283
> 
> https://www.ralphlauren.com/men-acc.../Watches#start=1&cgid=men-accessories-watches


Nobody I know.


----------



## Oldsarge

drpeter said:


> What struck me, on the other hand, is the unbuttoned surgeon's cuff of his tweed jacket, perhaps to show (off) that the jacket is bespoke or custom. That sort of thing is considered a tad arriviste, isn't it?


Well, not to mention any names but at least one _very_ well-dressed chap I know has worn his cuffs like on several occasions when we've been out together.


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> Well, not to mention any names but at least one _very_ well-dressed chap I know has worn his cuffs like on several occasions when we've been out together.


[Raised eyebrow] Oh?


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I guess so. I was told at some point by someone (yup, that's what I got) that it was like leaving the bottom button of vest undone, but I don't know.
> 
> I think, as you said, showing off that it's custom is probably the reason. If so, then it seems like bragging to me.
> 
> It's quieted down some, but a few years back, a lot of RTW sport coats and suits were made with working buttons. Of course, that made it very hard to alter the sleeve length so the industry seems to have moved away from that the past few years.
> 
> Agreed, Ralph does a lot of that and other quirky things like the giant polo horse or a giant teddy bear on a (very expensive) cashmere sweater or a teddy bear on the face of a $2000 watch (!) or a huge crest on a rugby shirt.
> 
> Since he makes a lot of those type of items year in and year out, they must sell.
> 
> That said, I rarely see anyone wearing those items, so who's buying them?
> 
> Who buys this $2150 watch:
> View attachment 46283
> 
> https://www.ralphlauren.com/men-acc.../Watches#start=1&cgid=men-accessories-watches


That is one silly-looking watch. I hope no one here is an aficionado.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> This is the best pic I could find, but it's still hard to see - sorry. That said, I'm pretty sure actor Joe E. Brown (center) has a pocket watch in his breast pocket attached to a chain that runs through the lapel button hole and has a fob on the end.
> 
> From the 1935 movie "Alibi Ike:"
> View attachment 46295


Thanks for posting the picture above.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> That is one silly-looking watch. I hope no one here is an aficionado.


They make them, they stock them, so they must sell them, but I have never seen anyone who owns one.


----------



## Oldsarge

drpeter said:


> That is one silly-looking watch. I hope no one here is an aficionado.


Do a search for Danger, Men Shopping.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> They make them, they stock them, so they must sell them, but I have never seen anyone who owns one.


LOL, maybe they are buying it themselves too!


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> LOL, maybe they are buying it themselves too!


I haven't been in Polo's flagship since Covid, but for the past several years, they stocked several versions of that bear watch. Somebody must be buying them. And somebody must be buying the big teddy bear cashmere sweaters and all that other type of merchandise.

I have no issue with that at all. You earn your money, you should be free to spend it as you want. I'm just amazed that I've never seen anyone wearing any of it, but they still keeping making and stocking it. And I live in a big city where I see a lot of Polo clothes being worn.

I'm not sure why, but I really want to see someone with that watch on. I guess I want to see what that person dresses like and how it fits into his style.


----------



## Oldsarge

Kind of Pre-Ralph . . .


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> Kind of Pre-Ralph . . .
> 
> View attachment 46307


I think the Federation of International Polo must be rethinking the name for their game, now that RL has fully appropriated it as his own. What could some alternative names be for this ancient game? Maybe_ pulu_, the Assamese name for the modern-day version of the game? Or _chovgan_, the Persian name for the ancient version? What if RL then uses those names as a trademark too?

By the way, some sites I looked at when searching for synonyms, provide only one definition of the word polo -- as an article of clothing! RL wins!


----------



## Fading Fast

Cross post with the Tweed thread:


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 46360


I love the suede jacket and am impressed with the sleeveless cardigan. The pink shirt and navy tie are nice touches, but for the trousers to pass muster, get rid of the pleats!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I love the suede jacket and am impressed with the sleeveless cardigan. The pink shirt and navy tie are nice touches, but for the trousers to pass muster, get rid of the pleats!


I liked this one too. Incorporated a lot of elements - as Ralph does - without feeling forced - as Ralph can sometimes.


----------



## fred johnson

I don't mind the forward pleats so much.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

drpeter said:


> LOL, maybe they are buying it themselves too!


 Chinese market.

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## Fading Fast

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> Chinese market.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR


Is that it? Is that where / to whom the giant teddy bear sweaters and $2000 teddy bear watches are sold?


----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

Fading Fast said:


> Is that it? Is that where / to whom the giant teddy bear sweaters and $2000 teddy bear watches are sold?


From my experience in Asia, conspicuous consumerism of expensive products we would consider ridiculous was not uncommon.

High end Disney and Hello Kitty we're readily accessible. The market was the main growth point for lux retailers and LVMH, jewelers, scotch, and watch companies were constantly creating new product.

I often wondered by Johnny Walker was pumping out a new product line every few months. If every mid range and higher club in China stocks the newest Johnny Walker purple pink, double pink, orange, etc label to keep a la mode, the answer is self evident.

Similarly, why would Omega make so many variants of the original Speedmaster? A Snoopy Speedmaster? Seriously?

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## Fading Fast

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> From my experience in Asia, conspicuous consumerism of expensive products we would consider ridiculous was not uncommon.
> 
> High end Disney and Hello Kitty we're readily accessible. The market was the main growth point for lux retailers and LVMH, jewelers, scotch, and watch companies were constantly creating new product.
> 
> I often wondered by Johnny Walker was pumping out a new product line every few months. If every mid range and higher club in China stocks the newest Johnny Walker purple pink, double pink, orange, etc label to keep a la mode, the answer is self evident.
> 
> Similarly, why would Omega make so many variants of the original Speedmaster? A Snoopy Speedmaster? Seriously?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR


I knew somewhere there was an answer to the "expensive teddy-bear merchandise" question, so perhaps this is it. Thank you.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 46460


A leather flight jacket is easily one of the most versatile garments in a gentleman's wardrobe, perhaps even rivaling the utility of the ubiquitous navy blazer. But alas, for we old timers that leather flight jacket generally suggests to onlookers, an old coot trying to recapture the sartorial mystery and romance of his youth. Perhaps it's time to pass that old love on to one of the grand sons? LOL. :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> A leather flight jacket is easily one of the most versatile garments in a gentleman's wardrobe, perhaps even rivaling the utility of the ubiquitous navy blazer. But alas, for we old timers that leather flight jacket generally suggests to onlookers, an old coot trying to recapture the sartorial mystery and romance of his youth. Perhaps it's time to pass that old love on to one of the grand sons? LOL. :icon_scratch:


It's not easy to know when it's time to give up an article because it is too "youthful." I've been trying to make the right choices on this issue since my early forties, when it seemed time to start thinking about it. I don't know about the flight jacket as, like with so many things, it depends on the person.

A good friend of ours dad - who has become a good friend himself - is in his late '70s. He's in great shape and wears a leather bomber from time to time (collar not popped) and it looks good to me. He'll usually wear it with chinos or grey dress trousers not jeans. That said, I've seen some men younger than he is wearing them and it looks forced or incongruous or something not good.


----------



## Peak and Pine

eagle2250 said:


> A leather flight jacket is easily one of the most versatile garments in a gentleman's wardrobe, perhaps even rivaling the utility of the ubiquitous navy blazer. But alas, for we old timers that leather flight jacket generally suggests to onlookers, an old coot trying to recapture the sartorial mystery and romance of his youth. Perhaps it's time to pass that old love on to one of the grand sons? LOL. :icon_scratch:





Fading Fast said:


> It's not easy to know when it's time to give up an article because it is too "youthful." I've been trying to make the right choices on this issue since my early forties, when it seemed time to start thinking about it. I don't know about the flight jacket as, like with so many things, it depends on the person.
> 
> A good friend of ours dad - who has become a good friend himself - is in his late '70s. He's in great shape and wears a leather bomber from time to time (collar not popped) and it looks good to me. He'll usually wear it with chinos or grey dress trousers not jeans. That said, I've seen some men younger than he is wearing them and it looks forced or incongruous or something not good.


Two favorites. The jacket and the guy in it, who's _lookin' gooooood._


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## London380sl

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 46466


That sweater should do well in China.


----------



## Peak and Pine

^

Heh, heh.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> A leather flight jacket is easily one of the most versatile garments in a gentleman's wardrobe, perhaps even rivaling the utility of the ubiquitous navy blazer. But alas, for we old timers that leather flight jacket generally suggests to onlookers, an old coot trying to recapture the sartorial mystery and romance of his youth. Perhaps it's time to pass that old love on to one of the grand sons? LOL. :icon_scratch:


I still wear my leather jackets from time to time, and I try to look tough in them, with a serious expression on my face, so that the young'uns will look at me and say, _Man, this is one tough hombre of indeterminate provenance, a serious baddie_. They don't have to know I'm a softie at heart. My ancestry has fortunately bequeathed me with almost no wrinkles at 70 (just genes, folks, I did my share of hard living!).

I have been seriously considering pairing a leather flight jacket with blue jeans and a belt on which I hook my Gurkha knife or _kukri _in its scabbard. Isn't it the perfect outfit in these troubled times? I don't know if Wisconsin gun laws extend to edged weapons, maybe one of our august readership might know.


----------



## drpeter

The best part of a leather jacket, by the way, is that rough patina that comes with age, the scratches, the faded parts, the folds and wrinkles, the food and blood stains, that indicate a life fully lived...Of course, our aging memories can't quite recollect which Wordsworthian dawn it was when it was "bliss to be alive", but that's just a detail.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Peak and Pine

^

Oooooo, liking that.
2003 be damned, that's timeless. Though I've not done it, or even seen it, had an inkling that a milk chocolate shirt would wear well with an outfit like that. Glad to see that it does.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 46509


The designed in fitting irregularities and wrinkling of the rig pictured above is intriguing. Isn't the purpose of advertising to show a product at it's best? Regardless, I would still buy that suit. :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> The designed in fitting irregularities and wrinkling of the rig pictured above is intriguing. Isn't the purpose of advertising to show a product at it's best? Regardless, I would still buy that suit. :icon_scratch:


Can't say I can think of other examples of when he's done it, but somehow the wrinkles, etc., feel right for Ralph since part of what he is selling is the idea that these are clothes you wish your father had handed down to you.

I've flirted with the idea of buying a chino suit (that's my guess for what it is anyway) over the years and never did, but wish I had as the chances of having any reason to buy one now are very remote.

In the '80s, I did own a chino sport coat, but it was from an inferior maker (don't remember which one) and, honestly, looked lousy so I hardly wore it. All part of the lesson of learning about buying quality/value, etc.


----------



## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> I still wear my leather jackets from time to time, and I try to look tough in them, with a serious expression on my face, so that the young'uns will look at me and say, _Man, this is one tough hombre of indeterminate provenance, a serious baddie_. They don't have to know I'm a softie at heart. My ancestry has fortunately bequeathed me with almost no wrinkles at 70 (just genes, folks, I did my share of hard living!).
> 
> I have been seriously considering pairing a leather flight jacket with blue jeans and a belt on which I hook my Gurkha knife or _kukri _in its scabbard. Isn't it the perfect outfit in these troubled times? I don't know if Wisconsin gun laws extend to edged weapons, maybe one of our august readership might know.


You should go ahead and get that leather flight jacket. Certainly don't allow my reservations or those of others stop you. My reservations regarding wearing mine are driven mostly by my waistline. I can still put the jacket on and can even zip it up, but the jacket is clearly overfilled around the abdomen! LOL.


----------



## Peak and Pine

eagle2250 said:


> The designed in fitting irregularities and wrinkling of the rig pictured above is intriguing. Isn't the purpose of advertising to show a product at it's best? :icon_scratch:


That *is* the product at its best, as worn.

In statuary (a touchy topic these days) where the sculptor because of the immobility of the finished product could dress a guy far more perfectly than any fashion ad, chooses usually not to, doing instead an as-worn.

Below is my favorite statue in the whole world. In Longfellow Square in Portland, Maine, his birth place, this statue of Longfellow. Note the pulling of the buttoned jacket, the wrinkles in the shoulder and the hiked sleeve of the right hand. Also the draping of the lap robe. (And nothing to do with clothing, the lion's head on the arms of the chair.) I actually climbed this statue as a boy. And got verbally thrashed by my mom who saw me from across the street at the cleaners. Many little boys would do this.










A linen postcard of same, from the 40s.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Can't say I can think of other examples of when he's done it, but somehow the wrinkles, etc., feel right for Ralph since part of what he is selling is the idea that these are clothes you wish your father had handed down to you.
> 
> I've flirted with the idea of buying a chino suit (that's my guess for what it is anyway) over the years and never did, but wish I had as the chances of having any reason to buy one now are very remote.
> 
> In the '80s, I did own a chino sport coat, but it was from an inferior maker (don't remember which one) and, honestly, looked lousy so I hardly wore it. All part of the lesson of learning about buying quality/value, etc.


O'Connell's sells a very nice cotton poplin suit design. When I bought mine they were available in Khaki, Navy and Loden hues. The Khaki suit gets a fair amount of wear here in central Florida, but be cautious of the Navy hued option. It really seems to fade quickly in the sun and the Loden, what can one say about Loden...it's still Loden. LOL.


----------



## Old Road Dog

This raises a question that I have grappled with as I age: Is there an issue of age-appropriateness in choosing what to wear? There would be some obvious no-no's, of course. A flight jacket is a good one to discuss, however. I have worn a few over the years including leather ones. I bought a modern one a few years ago, with a O.D. shell and and orange lining. I have received many compliments on it...far more than on much nicer leather jackets I had earlier in my life. I admit to wondering if I'm a bit too old for it though. Dress wear seems immune to age, but sportswear requires discretion. Sometimes one has to listen to the "inner self".


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> O'Connell's sells a very nice cotton poplin suit design. When I bought mine they were available in Khaki, Navy and Loden hues. The Khaki suit gets a fair amount of wear here in central Florida, but be cautious of the Navy hued option. It really seems to fade quickly in the sun and the Loden, what can one say about Loden...it's still Loden. LOL.


I love those poplin suits and am pretty sure that, over the years, I've owned one in every color they've ever been made in. And, yes, the navy fades quickly, but IMO, that's part of its charm.

I, agree too, the loden (spell check really wants to change "loden" to "olden" or "laden") is the avatar. The grey one (had one years ago) was fun as it had a bit more of a tradition biz-suit feel (and was less common), but was still quirky poplin in its own way.

I think the one in the Ralph ad is more "pure" chino than poplin as it looks heavier to my eye. Now, though, I also want a poplin suit again as, over the years, I let them drop out of my wardrobe.

The first few Wall Street firms that I worked at (in the late '80s) allowed those poplin suits only between Labor Day and Memorial Day, my how the world has changed.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Old Road Dog said:


> Dress wear seems immune to age, but sportswear requires discretion. Sometimes one has to listen to the "inner self".


Or buy a mirror.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Spring 2020 collection.

Khakis, baseball caps, polo coats, loosened ties, saddle shoes...my kinda collection. And no giant POLO letters that obscure the photo.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I love those poplin suits and am pretty sure that, over the years, I've owned one in every color they've ever been made in. And, yes, the navy fades quickly, but IMO, that's part of its charm.
> 
> I, agree too, the loden (spell check really wants to change "loden" to "olden" or "laden") is the avatar. The grey one (had one years ago) was fun as it had a bit more of a tradition biz-suit feel (and was less common), but was still quirky poplin in its own way.
> 
> I think the one in the Ralph ad is more "pure" chino than poplin as it looks heavier to my eye. Now, though, I also want a poplin suit again as, over the years, I let them drop out of my wardrobe.
> 
> The first few Wall Street firms that I worked at (in the late '80s) allowed those poplin suits only between Labor Day and Memorial Day, my how the world has changed.


I too love poplin. It is perfect for hot weather, and I prefer it to linen. I do have some poplin trousers and also a cream-colored poplin suit. I would love to have one that is dove grey. The ones I have are 100% cotton, but most poplin clothes these days seem to have some amount of polyester fibre woven in. That should not matter very much, and probably helps with wrinkles.


----------



## Oldsarge

I have a poplin suit. I rather like it. However, it doesn't seem to be the right thing to wear when staying home in isolation. _Sigh . . ._

When this nonsense comes to an end, I'm outa here. I don't know where I'm going or what I'll be doing but whatever it is, it will be someplace else. Possibly a fly fishing class . . .


----------



## Peak and Pine

Fading Fast said:


> The first few Wall Street firms that I worked at (in the late '80s) allowed those poplin suits only between Labor Day and Memorial Day, my how the world has changed.


It sure has. Nowadays we do it in reverse, wear the poplins between Memorial Day and Labor Day.


----------



## Fading Fast

Cross post with the "Tweed" thread:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Cross post with the "Tweed" thread:
> View attachment 46562


I love that look, but am pretty sure that I would be sweating certain body parts off, if I were to try to wear that coat here in central Florida! LOL.


----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

Since an earlier photo of RL with a western belt buckle appeared in this thread,
I have been seriously digging the big belt buckle look, especially now that I no longer have a big belly!

Sadly, my wife is not a fan. A surreptitious purchase might have to be planned.

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## eagle2250

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> View attachment 46565
> 
> Since an earlier photo of RL with a western belt buckle appeared in this thread,
> I have been seriously digging the big belt buckle look, especially now that I no longer have a big belly!
> 
> Sadly, my wife is not a fan. A surreptitious purchase might have to be planned.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR


Speaking from experience, I recommend great caution be exercised in that surreptitious purchasing effort. SWMBO loves the thrill of the hunt and rumor has it she has been sharpening her claws! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 46599


Nice cardigan, absent the embroidery.


----------



## Peak and Pine

eagle2250 said:


> Nice cardigan, absent the embroidery.


Cardigan? I don't see no cardigan. I enjoy the occasional use of the double negative. Gives me street cred, as does using cred for credibility. It's a blazer. I know this because Mrs. Lauren doesn't allow her boys to ever wear vests under sweaters. As for the gargantuan crest, Ralph bought the rights to that from Manny, Moe and Jack, the Pep Boys who aren't using it anymore, probably. because thy've been dead since the 50s.


----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> Cardigan? I don't see no cardigan. I enjoy the occasional use of the double negative. Gives me street cred, as does using cred for credibility. It's a blazer. I know this because Mrs. Lauren doesn't allow her boys to ever wear vests under sweaters. As for the gargantuan crest, Ralph bought the rights to that from Manny, Moe and Jack, the Pep Boys who aren't using it anymore, probably. because thy've been dead since the 50s.


Well it certainly looks like a cardigan to me, looking at that Buffalo Plaid shawl collar...very handsome! Could you be mistaken or is my vision just a whole lot worse than I thought it was? LOL.


----------



## Peak and Pine

eagle2250 said:


> Well it certainly looks like a cardigan to me, looking at that Buffalo Plaid shawl collar...very handsome! Could you be mistaken or is my vision just a whole lot worse than I thought it was? LOL.


I am about to do something I am lothe to do, something the warden once told me was always in my best interest, apologize.

I thought the plaid thing was a scarf. Zooming in I now see a sewn seam along the edge of the plaid, on the right, binding it to whatever that is in blue underneath. So yoi don't need glasses, unless to brace against tbe mid Florida heat they're holding rum. Cheers.


----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> I am about to do something I am lothe to do, something the warden once told me was always in my best interest, apologize.
> 
> I thought the plaid thing was a scarf. Zooming in I now see a sewn seam along the edge of the plaid, on the right, binding it to whatever that is in blue underneath. So yoi don't need glasses, unless to brace against tbe mid Florida heat they're holding rum. Cheers.


My friend, you could never be wrong. Thought provoking perhaps, but never wrong! LOL. Have a great day.


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> I am about to do something I am lothe to do, something the warden once told me was always in my best interest, apologize.
> 
> I thought the plaid thing was a scarf. Zooming in I now see a sewn seam along the edge of the plaid, on the right, binding it to whatever that is in blue underneath. So yoi don't need glasses, unless to brace against tbe mid Florida heat they're holding rum. Cheers.


Warden brings to mind many people, @Peaks: The Warden of Merton College, Oxford? Or perhaps, the Warden of a "House of Correction" like Sing Sing? They would both have maintained that apologizing is generally in one's best interests, LOL.


----------



## Peak and Pine

drpeter said:


> Warden brings to mind many people, @Peaks: The Warden of Merton College, Oxford? Or perhaps, the Warden of a "House of Correction" like Sing Sing? They would both have maintained that apologizing is generally in one's best interests, LOL.


Afraid I'll have to leave you guessing. Hint: I broke a tooth once biting down on a delicious piece of lemon cake forgetting there was a shiv inside.

Apologies once more, to anyone reading here, for the inordinate amount of typos in my stuff, operating totally and always by cell and its tiny keyboard, normal type internet access unavailable in my zip.(Confession,_ lothe_ in the post above is not a typo, I actually thought it was spelled that way.)


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> Afraid I'll have to leave you guessing. Hint: I broke a tooth once biting down on a delicious piece of lemon cake forgetting there was a shiv inside.
> 
> Apologies once more, to anyone reading here, for the inordinate amount of typos in my stuff, operating totally and always by cell and its tiny keyboard, normal type internet access unavailable in my zip.(Confession,_ lothe_ in the post above is not a typo, I actually thought it was spelled that way.)


Shiv! Now you're talking...Gives me enough clues.

At the risk of being pedantic, and apologizing in advance for being presumptuous, may I point out that there is a difference between _loath_ as an adjective meaning reluctant (the sense in which you were using it) and _loathe_ as a verb, meaning despise. A little "e" at the end...


----------



## Peak and Pine

drpeter said:


> ...may I point out that there is a difference between _loath_ as an adjective meaning reluctant (the sense in which you were using it) and _loathe_ as a verb, meaning despise. A little "e" at the end...


I am loath to admit to loathe being corrected, but I will and just did and ask you: does it have to be a _little_ *e* at the end, or can it be a normal size one?


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> I am loath to admit to loathe being corrected, but I will and just did and ask you: does it have to be a _little_ *e* at the end, or can it be a normal size one?


It can be absolutely any size you want, as long as it precisely matches the size of the little "l", the little "o", the little "a",...you get my drift.


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ I believe that is our friend the reversible overcoat/raincoat on the gentleman on the left. It might be as short as the one ⇩ Ryan O'Neil wore in "Love Story"


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 46640
> 
> ⇧ I believe that is our friend the reversible overcoat/raincoat on the gentleman on the left. It might be as short as the one ⇩ Ryan O'Neil wore in "Love Story"
> View attachment 46641


In that shot of Allie and Ryan walking across campus, it appears Allie is about to break or severely sprain the ankle supporting her left foot as she completes her next step. It doesn't happen, but it sure looks like it could. Ryan will have to carry her to the student health clinic. How chivalrous....Eh?


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> In that shot of Allie and Ryan walking across campus, it appears Allie is about to break or severely sprain the ankle supporting her left foot as she completes her next step. It doesn't happen, but it sure looks like it could. Ryan will have to carry her to the student health clinic. How chivalrous....Eh?


As you note, I'm sure nothing happened as it appears the pic was just taken at a moment that gives that impression. It's not a good movie at all, but it is a great time capsule for the last gasp of Ivy Era clothes at college.


----------



## drpeter

I am not sure whether this information belongs in this thread, but its about the other kind of polo shirt: Yesterday, at a local Goodwill, I picked up a blue-and-yellow-striped broadcloth shirt, short point collar, single pocket and button sleeves, that had the official label of the US Polo Association. On the pocket, there was the insignia or emblem of that association, a polo player on a horse with a mallet raised, which looks different from the Lauren emblem. I think it was this emblem that caused Ralph Lauren to get into a legal tangle with the US Polo Association.

Although my shirt is different, this link should give you an idea -- you can place the cursor above the emblem to enlarge it a bit:

https://uspoloassn.com/products/mul...duct_id=multi-polo-oxford-shirt&source=search


----------



## Old Road Dog

Regarding the shirt above: Just a personal observation, or opinion, if you will: Much has been opined that RL took the legitimate name of a historical sport and usurped it for commercial purposes. That became an issue only years later when anorher business began producing sportswear with the word polo in it's name. POLO / Ralph Lauren sued and won an infringements case. Other suits have followed in which PRL prevailed. Unfortunately for the USPA, the polo pony was was out of the barn and gone. There are indeed legitimate stores with U.S. Polo Association over the door that sell apparel and various related "polo" items. Good for them, I suppose. 

There are countless iconic brands that suffer from imitators. During Burberry's great influx into the U.S. market in the late 1970's there were fake Burberry scarves being sold of the sidewalk right in front of the our Ave. of the Americas showroom! 

As the saying goes: "Often imitated, but never equalled".


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 46678


100% yes.

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## Peak and Pine

https://robbreport.com/style/fashio...errer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s


----------



## drpeter

Old Road Dog said:


> Regarding the shirt above: Just a personal observation, or opinion, if you will: Much has been opined that RL took the legitimate name of a historical sport and usurped it for commercial purposes. That became an issue only years later when anorher business began producing sportswear with the word polo in it's name. POLO / Ralph Lauren sued and won an infringements case. Other suits have followed in which PRL prevailed. Unfortunately for the USPA, the polo pony was was out of the barn and gone. There are indeed legitimate stores with U.S. Polo Association over the door that sell apparel and various related "polo" items. Good for them, I suppose.
> 
> There are countless iconic brands that suffer from imitators. During Burberry's great influx into the U.S. market in the late 1970's there were fake Burberry scarves being sold of the sidewalk right in front of the our Ave. of the Americas showroom!
> 
> As the saying goes: "Often imitated, but never equalled".


It's entirely possible that the USPA wanted to cash in on their Polo logo because Lauren cashed in on the brand name first with some success. Hence the lawsuits, and so on. So I see the point you are making. But I still find it rather galling that the name of an ancient sport is so easily converted into a trademark so that no one else may now use it, even an association centred around the sport. What the USPA should have done back when Lauren launched the Polo-branded clothing was to go to court to prevent Lauren from using the name of a sport in a restrictive fashion to brand a line of clothing. I imagine Lauren wanted to work in the British colonial theme further (a contentious thing these days) to strengthen the kinds of "looks" he was selling, and the modern version of the game of polo was born in Manipur, India during the British Raj -- so it all fits. Polo is, after all, an anglicization of the Manipuri word _pulu_ -- what they called _their_ game before the Brits got hold of it and made it theirs!

To take a similar four-letter word, LOL, consider the word Yoga. It is also an ancient practice, if not a sport, and there have been countless practitioners all over the world who have taught it in its various forms. There was a fellow in New York with a string of yoga training places that used yoga techniques that he had developed -- his first name was Bikram and he called his methods Bikram Yoga. This man then tried to patent or trademark the word Yoga so that he and he alone could use it. He failed, in part because there was a huge outcry against his attempt, in India as well as here in the US, to profit from something in an exclusive way, something that was not intended for private profit.

We live in a society which reveres money and its making. In such a culture, everything becomes privatised and commodified and everyones wants to get in on the act. I think it was Genentech, a company started in part by a former NIH researcher who took techniques developed with taxpayer money, started a private firm, and then wanted to patent the human genome, and restrict its widespread dissemination (which is what the scientists of the world wanted in the spirit of scientific research). Yes, commodify all of our genes so that he and he alone could get paid royalties whenever anyone else did anything involving these genes -- research, development, medical techniques, drugs. Before anything could happen, though, the famous journal _Nature_ published most of the genome ( strings of nucleic acids, I believe) in a special issue. Fortunately for the rest of humanity, the genome patent attempt failed, although specific sequences, and methods and drugs resulting from those sequences, were, and still are being, patented -- and court battles in these patents are also being fought.

So it goes.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 46717


Been there, worn that, and all but the green crew neck sweater can still be found in my closet! Although, I must admit I cannot recall ever sporting the no sock look.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Been there, worn that, and all but the green crew neck sweater can still be found in my closet! Although, I must admit I cannot recall ever sporting the no sock look.


I know we have at least one thread devoted to it and there's a lot of passion on the topic of no socks, but I just don't get worked up, one or the other, about it in general.

When I went to college in the '80s, at the not-at-all-preppy Rutgers University (four years, never saw a kid in a tweed jacket), I saw some kids go sock-less with sneakers or boat shoes which I, then, did sometimes as well and have, off and on, ever since.

The only thing that looks odd to me is the sock-less look with hard-core dress shoes, in general, and even more so when worn with a business suit.


----------



## Old Road Dog

Those shoes look like camp mocs to me, so sockless is is not unexpected.


----------



## Peak and Pine

I'm reshowing the Chaps image from earlier because I want to comment...










As @Old Road Dog points out, sockless with that type of shoe and in that weather is fine. *However* not if you're sitting on a rotted log in tall grass. Ticks.

(Hesitate to give personal info, but as a cautionary tale I was hospitalized for 5 days and $26,000 over Thanksgiving of 2017 with anaplasmosis, which means severe infection from infected tick. The only time in my entire life in a hospital. And the only time I had to be dragged out of the Portland Jetport by traveling companions and off to the ER, foregoing forever that particular trip to Las Vegas. It hits quick.)

Early Chaps was fine cloth. I have suits and jackets from that era, late 70s. You might like to know one way to tell early Chaps and early Polo from later pieces. On the label of each the Ralph Lauren name is in all caps. That was only for a year or two. From then on only the R and L are capitalized.


----------



## Oldsarge

Ticks can be deadly. I was bitten in Zimbabwe. By the time I got annoyed enough with the itching to go see a doctor, red streaks were running up my leg from the bite. Blood poisoning. So . . . I got bawled out by the doctor and by my wife. Fortunately antibiotics did the job. But after every safari after that, she made me strip down and went over the parts I couldn't see with a pair of tweezers and a bottle of alcohol. It was almost as much fun as having my MIL pull rose thorns out of my backside and thighs . . .


----------



## Peak and Pine

Having no true internet connection, operating strictly via cell phone and even tbat is in and out due to my location and the weather, I have had a devilish time posting pics (and had to give up on the picture part of a tailoring project for the thread _July purchases_), so tonight have been using this space to see if I could get something, anything, up. And vwah-la, I did. Congrats to me. Just an experiment so I should leave the pic in Preview, but nah, decided to post, both as a tease for something to come later, and because the cut up corduroys below are Polo Ralph Lauren, making the pic thead legit. Thank ye. And once again, nice hands, no?


----------



## Peak and Pine

Hoping it wasn't just a one-off, seeing if I can tack up another pic...










Whoa, would you believe? The piece of cloth that lovely hand is fingering is pilfered Harris Tweed, now formed into a 2" by 16" something-or-other..


----------



## Peak and Pine

Okay. Okay. Might as well blow the wad here, what little there is, so far. Beware, the following is a lay-out only, litterally, the different cloths are merely folded into shape and laid upon each other, somewhat haphazardly, but close. While not clearly seen, corduroy also goes under the belt peeking out a bit from each edge.


----------



## Oldsarge

Peak and Pine said:


> Okay. Okay. Might as well blow the wad here, what little there is, so far. Beware, the following is a lay-out only, litterally, the different cloths are merely folded into shape and laid upon each other, somewhat haphazardly, but close. While not clearly seen, corduroy also goes under the belt peeking out a bit from each edge.
> 
> View attachment 46751


Interesting concept for a Norfolk.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Oldsarge said:


> Interesting concept for a Norfolk.


Yes. A half Norfolk. Here's the genesis of it. An on-line second-hand site sent me a three-button Harris Tweed, vintage, circa I dunno. The few pics offered showed it to be oatmeal with a prominent stripe, rare in a Harris. Seller needs a photo lesson. It arrives here in the Northland seafoam with a subtle stripe. Nothing against that color 'cept I already have it in summer jackets and not fond of it for heavy tweed which this is. However, the cloth is good, the jacket well made and it was 18 bucks shipped. Yet it's a sack and the older I get the further I get away from the rosy cheeked preppy Down East lad of Trad yore (and tire of the parade of bygone Polo ads featuring same that keep popping up here). I will un-sack it when I work on the front, and it won't be worn with a pinned club collar, Fair Isle, bow tie, pocket square, polo coat and what ever else can be piled on. Judging from the F/W Polo collection it seems Ralph too has ougrown that stuff.

Anyway, the front of my jacket wil be ho-um high button tweed (darted) and can take a bold repp tie in mostly navy as seafoam has blue in with the green. I don't plan to document progress on it here (hand work once in rhythm doesn't like to stop to fiddle with a camera, lighting and a lousy internet connection), but will paste it up in a couple weeks along with the other one (also a half Norfolk) from the July purchases thread. Thanks for commenting.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Peak and Pine

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 46755


If you flip back to post #1, you'll see that child's face for the first time, the face that launched 597 posts, Sarge's pic to begin this thread..


----------



## Oldsarge

Good eye . . . and visual memory!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> Okay. Okay. Might as well blow the wad here, what little there is, so far. Beware, the following is a lay-out only, litterally, the different cloths are merely folded into shape and laid upon each other, somewhat haphazardly, but close. While not clearly seen, corduroy also goes under the belt peeking out a bit from each edge.
> 
> View attachment 46751


I had no idea, not an inkling, that you were a tailor, @Peaks. I have two or three books on the subject, acquired in my attempts to learn more about the craft, not because I want to learn tailoring -- I'm far too clumsy for that! I'm in awe of tailors (especially cutters), to me it is close to being a surgeon: To have that kind of confidence to cut up cloth and put those pieces together to create something lovely, that is an amazing skill to have. So is this your vocation, or is it simply an avocation?


----------



## Peak and Pine

drpeter said:


> I had no idea, not an inkling, that you were a tailor, @Peaks. I have two or three books on the subject, acquired in my attempts to learn more about the craft, not because I want to learn tailoring -- I'm far too clumsy for that! I'm in awe of tailors (especially cutters), to me it is close to being a surgeon: To have that kind of confidence to cut up cloth and put those pieces together to create something lovely, that is an amazing skill to have. So is this your vocation, or is it simply an avocation?


Thank you. No, I am not a tailor. (Have wondered, are you a doctor?) Charles Dana made a similar inquiry of me in another thread and if you don't mind I'll address this both to you and @Charles Dana.

I am what you might term a cloth mechanic.
Not unike an auto mechanic, the good ones, yet the ones who have not a clue how to build a car from scratch, nor any interest in doing so. Me, with clothes. Borne out of poverty combined with a chronic disfigurement from a fall from an unfriendly roof, later when the poverty part vanished came the realization that when need goes away the knowledge gained need not follow..


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> Thank you. No, I am not a tailor. (Have wondered, are you a doctor?) Charles Dana made a similar inquiry of me in another thread and if you don't mind I'll address this both to you and @Charles Dana.
> 
> I am what you might term a cloth mechanic.
> Not unike an auto mechanic, the good ones, yet the ones who have not a clue how to build a car from scratch, nor any interest in doing so. Me, with clothes. Borne out of poverty combined with a chronic disfigurement from a fall from an unfriendly roof, later when the poverty part vanished came the realization that when need goes away the knowledge gained need not follow..


Thank you for sharing this information. That is an unusual history.

As for me, I am not a physician (what most people think of when they hear the word doctor) but a university scientist with a PhD. I am a cognitive neuroscientist, and I study human attention and memory in the laboratory using techniques and methods drawn from experimental psychology and brain electrophysiology ( recording event-related potentials from scalp electrodes, while subjects perform a task in the experiment ). All of this is done under specialized software controlling amplifiers and filters, much of it written in our lab in object oriented C, a very good language for real-time control. Alas, I have been retired for ten years, and the electrophysiology lab was too much to run without full-time faculty, so now I have a behavioral lab at my university department, run by a colleague who is a full-time professor.

I have an undergraduate honours degree in mathematics with minors in mathematical statistics, physics and the history of science. So I did a fair bit of mathematical modeling of cognitive and neural processes. At some point I moved into brain electrophysiology so that I could get a glimpse of what was going on in the cortex when people were thinking and feeling and making judgments. These days they use MRIs as well in such experiments, although the cost of such work is very high still. Mathematical training is very good for almost any kind of work because it teaches you to think carefully and precisely, based on fundamentals -- what mathematicians often call rigour. The quest to understand the human mind/brain has been the core of my professional life. I consider myself very fortunate, to have come to this work from my own start as an ordinary middle-class lad growing up in a British colony in the fifties, on the other side of the world! It has been an enjoyable career.


----------



## Peak and Pine

drpeter said:


> Thank you for sharing this information. That is an unusual history.
> 
> As for me, I am not a physician (what most people think of when they hear the word doctor) but a university scientist with a PhD. I am a cognitive neuroscientist, and I study human attention and memory in the laboratory using techniques and methods drawn from experimental psychology and brain electrophysiology ( recording event-related potentials from scalp electrodes, while subjects perform a task in the experiment ). All of this is done under specialized software controlling amplifiers and filters, much of it written in our lab in object oriented C, a very good language for real-time control. Alas, I have been retired for ten years, and the electrophysiology lab was too much to run without full-time faculty, so now I have a behavioral lab at my university department, run by a colleague who is a full-time professor.
> 
> I have an undergraduate honours degree in mathematics with minors in mathematical statistics, physics and the history of science. So I did a fair bit of mathematical modeling of cognitive and neural processes. At some point I moved into brain electrophysiology so that I could get a glimpse of what was going on in the cortex when people were thinking and feeling and making judgments. These days they use MRIs as well in such experiments, although the cost of such work is very high still. Mathematical training is very good for almost any kind of work because it teaches you to think carefully and precisely, based on fundamentals -- what mathematicians often call rigour. The quest to understand the human mind/brain has been the core of my professional life. I consider myself very fortunate, to have come to this work from my own start as an ordinary middle-class lad growing up in a British colony in the fifties, on the other side of the world! It has been an enjoyable career.


Goodness. Gracious. I'm keeping far better company here on the internet than I ever did in my real, scrappy life* Very impressive


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 46792


There is absolutely nothing right about the rig being worn by the guy facing the camera. Now the guy wearing the navy blazer, paired with khakis, from what can be seen, has it going on!


----------



## Peak and Pine

drpeter said:


> Thank you for sharing this information. That is an unusual history.
> 
> As for me, I am not a physician (what most people think of when they hear the word doctor) but a university scientist with a PhD. I am a cognitive neuroscientist, and I study human attention and memory in the laboratory using techniques and methods drawn from experimental psychology and brain electrophysiology ( recording event-related potentials from scalp electrodes, while subjects perform a task in the experiment ). All of this is done under specialized software controlling amplifiers and filters, much of it written in our lab in object oriented C, a very good language for real-time control. Alas, I have been retired for ten years, and the electrophysiology lab was too much to run without full-time faculty, so now I have a behavioral lab at my university department, run by a colleague who is a full-time professor.
> 
> I have an undergraduate honours degree in mathematics with minors in mathematical statistics, physics and the history of science. So I did a fair bit of mathematical modeling of cognitive and neural processes. At some point I moved into brain electrophysiology so that I could get a glimpse of what was going on in the cortex when people were thinking and feeling and making judgments. These days they use MRIs as well in such experiments, although the cost of such work is very high still. Mathematical training is very good for almost any kind of work because it teaches you to think carefully and precisely, based on fundamentals -- what mathematicians often call rigour. The quest to understand the human mind/brain has been the core of my professional life. I consider myself very fortunate, to have come to this work from my own start as an ordinary middle-class lad growing up in a British colony in the fifties, on the other side of the world! It has been an enjoyable career.


(The earlier post, the one above Eagle's, only half loaded, due to in and out cell reception. The full post...)

Goodness. Gracious. I'm keeping far better company here on the internet than I ever did in my real, scrappy life* Very impressive. I mean that. My failed attempt to be the first to reach the North (or South, I didn't care) Pole doesn't compare.

**1966-1980 Screamin' R&R radio disk jockey from Montana to Miami, a very transient biz.

Quote


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> Goodness. Gracious. I'm keeping far better company here on the internet than I ever did in my real, scrappy life* Very impressive


Thank you for your kind words. There is something to be said for the scrappy life as well. It provides experiences.

These days I approach human thought, feelings and actions from a different perspective, that of literature. I work on both poetry and fiction, and enjoy these efforts hugely. And I don't need a fancy laboratory to do it in, just the wonderful, infinite variation and beauty of human language, English especially, with its vast vocabulary borrowed from many languages. Literature is another way of doing psychology, I believe. Stories are about human motives and goals, human action, or inaction. Fiction takes the long view and is less rigorous, and that is all right because it adds a different sort of elegance and beauty, that of language, to the work, just as mathematics adds elegance to scientific work.

As we all have found out in our own lives, people are endlessly fascinating, and sometimes you want just to get away from the entire bloody lot of them! Thomas Mann put it very well, "the tragedy and the comedy of life." One important thing, though: You really cannot get through life if you lose your sense of humour. We absolutely must laugh at ourselves, our petty vanities and our flailings. In that laughter, we might espy a kind of liberation, don't you think?

So, do please tell us about that Polar expedition, Mr Shackleton/Amundsen/Peary.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> There is absolutely nothing right about the rig being worn by the guy facing the camera. Now the guy wearing the navy blazer, paired with khakis, from what can be seen, has it going on!


I agree 100% -- I just did not want to offend anyone, so I was keeping mum, LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> There is absolutely nothing right about the rig being worn by the guy facing the camera. Now the guy wearing the navy blazer, paired with khakis, from what can be seen, has it going on!


Complete agreement here. It's Ralph (the company) being fashiony. The problem is that a entire generation has now been raised without seeing older men (than they) wearing properly fitted and accessorized suits.

I noted yesterday (as Flanderian does often) that even TV shows and movies, which used to clothe and tailor their actors very well, don't anymore. So where is a kid to learn the classic way to dress ?

I learned as a kid out of college from the older men at work, from older TV shows and movies (and even contemporary ones were still okay, overall, then) and from the better salesmen in the the traditional mens stores, but today a young man out of college would have to put in a lot of effort to learn the classic way and filter out a lot of current cultural advice.


----------



## fred johnson

eagle2250 said:


> There is absolutely nothing right about the rig being worn by the guy facing the camera. Now the guy wearing the navy blazer, paired with khakis, from what can be seen, has it going on!


I Agree


----------



## Peak and Pine

From a lesser known Ralph Lauren line, Polo Incestual...


----------



## Fading Fast

The captions on both of these said Polo and they look like they could be to me, but that's all I got on them:


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> From a lesser known Ralph Lauren line, Polo Incestual...
> 
> View attachment 46839


LOL. This is the _sprezzatura_ approach carried to an extreme. Do you think these fellows worked for hours to create that devil-may-care insouciance in their style of overalls? Rather like Beau Brummel and his manservant, who famously said of the pile of discarded stock, "These are our failures".


----------



## Fading Fast

Think it's Ralph, but can't prove it.


----------



## Peak and Pine

^

Polo Ralph Lauren f/w 2019


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 46885
> 
> Think it's Ralph, but can't prove it.


It has to be Ralph, look at the enormous crest on the coat worn by the chap seated on the steps. And the mix of clothes that is effectively a signature for his adverts.

I was searching for the right word to describe this approach to style, and I think I may have found it: _Noisy_. An appealing mix of multiple colors, patterns and textures in the same ensemble is not easy to achieve. If done well, it creates an impression of carrying experimentation to a bold new level, but stopping on the prudent side of a clash. A good example I can think of is an old one: the late Duke of Windsor. His style experiments became popular with the clothes-conscious people because they had this quality that combined a flair for novelty with an anchored stability. They evoked unfamiliar effects from familiar items of clothing. An instance: The old boy managed to combine a lightly patterned and coloured shirt, boldly patterned tie, and a Fair Isle sweater to create an image that somehow remains memorable even after decades. How many truly memorable images has Ralph Lauren created, how many that stand out in one's memory after all these years of advertising?

To give what I think is a fine example of the kind of stylistic experiment I am alluding to, consider a fairly old Burberry advert that remains in my memory after a decade or more. It had a combination that was almost completely novel, unusual, and to me at least, surprisingly and pleasingly effective. Among other objects, and people wearing the Burberry check/plaid, it showed a very handsome, middle-aged Sikh gentleman, wearing the traditional beard (salt-and-pepper) a plain dark wool suit, a very sober tie, and -- surprise -- a Burberry plaid turban! the image looked glorious and correct at the same time, an effect that was completely novel and highly unusual, and perhaps unique in all of advertising. There was no sense of a clash because the turban was the single unusual item against a multitude of quiet pieces -- shirt, tie, jacket. I remember wondering if any Sikh ever wore a plaid turban of any kind before this image was taken, let alone the recognizable Burberry colors. I have searched for this advert off and on without success, so if any of my good friends here recollect this one and find it, I would be most grateful to see it again, or be able to save a digital copy. At any rate, this is what I mean by an effective combination that advances one's notions of style without clashes of any sort. Just a _frisson _of surprise, pleasant and new.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> It has to be Ralph, look at the enormous crest on the coat worn by the chap seated on the steps. And the mix of clothes that is effectively a signature for his adverts.
> 
> I was searching for the right word to describe this approach to style, and I think I may have found it: _Noisy_. An appealing mix of multiple colors, patterns and textures in the same ensemble is not easy to achieve. If done well, it creates an impression of carrying experimentation to a bold new level, but stopping on the prudent side of a clash. A good example I can think of is an old one: the late Duke of Windsor. His style experiments became popular with the clothes-conscious people because they had this quality that combined a flair for novelty with an anchored stability. They evoked unfamiliar effects from familiar items of clothing. An instance: The old boy managed to combine a lightly patterned and coloured shirt, boldly patterned tie, and a Fair Isle sweater to create an image that somehow remains memorable even after decades. How many truly memorable images has Ralph Lauren created, how many that stand out in one's memory after all these years of advertising?
> 
> To give what I think is a fine example of the kind of stylistic experiment I am alluding to, consider a fairly old Burberry advert that remains in my memory after a decade or more. It had a combination that was almost completely novel, unusual, and to me at least, surprisingly and pleasingly effective. Among other objects, and people wearing the Burberry check/plaid, it showed a very handsome, middle-aged Sikh gentleman, wearing the traditional beard (salt-and-pepper) a plain dark wool suit, a very sober tie, and -- surprise -- a Burberry plaid turban! the image looked glorious and correct at the same time, an effect that was completely novel and highly unusual, and perhaps unique in all of advertising. There was no sense of a clash because the turban was the single unusual item against a multitude of quiet pieces -- shirt, tie, jacket. I remember wondering if any Sikh ever wore a plaid turban of any kind before this image was taken, let alone the recognizable Burberry colors. I have searched for this advert off and on without success, so if any of my good friends here recollect this one and find it, I would be most grateful to see it again, or be able to save a digital copy. At any rate, this is what I mean by an effective combination that advances one's notions of style without clashes of any sort. Just a _frisson _of surprise, pleasant and new.


Interesting post which supports your point - when it works, it's sartorial gold.

In the ad in question - and assuming a world or place where sport coats, ties and dress slacks aren't an anomaly - then the guy to the left has a pretty basic outfit on with the orange sweater being the only marginally stand out item.

The gentleman standing in the center is, for sure, wearing a noticeable sport coat, but as in your-discussed Burberry ad, since everything else is subdued, it looks good to me. Love his cap.

Even for the man sitting on the right, he'd look reasonably generic (especially since Fair Isles have been in the stores again now for several years) other than the crazy large crest that you noted.

So again, in a world where sport coats, ties and dress slacks are the norm, those all look like good efforts to me.

What really makes them stand out today is that there are very few places left where young men, but kinda men of any age now, wear sport coats, ties and dress slacks.

FYI, in my fantasy world where we return to a more dressy culture (as in the ad), grey dress slacks are normal "nice" men's casual wear - a not-stand-out alternative to chinos.

I don't remember the Burberry ad, but if I come across it, I'll send it to you.


----------



## Peak and Pine

drpeter said:


> It has to be Ralph, look at the enormous crest on the coat worn by the chap seated on the steps. And the mix of clothes that is effectively a signature for his adverts.
> 
> I was searching for the right word to describe this approach to style, and I think I may have found it: _Noisy_. An appealing mix of multiple colors, patterns and textures in the same ensemble is not easy to achieve. If done well, it creates an impression of carrying experimentation to a bold new level, but stopping on the prudent side of a clash. A good example I can think of is an old one: the late Duke of Windsor. His style experiments became popular with the clothes-conscious people because they had this quality that combined a flair for novelty with an anchored stability. They evoked unfamiliar effects from familiar items of clothing. An instance: The old boy managed to combine a lightly patterned and coloured shirt, boldly patterned tie, and a Fair Isle sweater to create an image that somehow remains memorable even after decades. How many truly memorable images has Ralph Lauren created, how many that stand out in one's memory after all these years of advertising?
> 
> To give what I think is a fine example of the kind of stylistic experiment I am alluding to, consider a fairly old Burberry advert that remains in my memory after a decade or more. It had a combination that was almost completely novel, unusual, and to me at least, surprisingly and pleasingly effective. Among other objects, and people wearing the Burberry check/plaid, it showed a very handsome, middle-aged Sikh gentleman, wearing the traditional beard (salt-and-pepper) a plain dark wool suit, a very sober tie, and -- surprise -- a Burberry plaid turban! the image looked glorious and correct at the same time, an effect that was completely novel and highly unusual, and perhaps unique in all of advertising. There was no sense of a clash because the turban was the single unusual item against a multitude of quiet pieces -- shirt, tie, jacket. I remember wondering if any Sikh ever wore a plaid turban of any kind before this image was taken, let alone the recognizable Burberry colors. I have searched for this advert off and on without success, so if any of my good friends here recollect this one and find it, I would be most grateful to see it again, or be able to save a digital copy. At any rate, this is what I mean by an effective combination that advances one's notions of style without clashes of any sort. Just a _frisson _of surprise, pleasant and new.


Sometimes I think things which fumble for words. Words to myself, nevermind outloud. Thank you today for supplying them.


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> Sometimes I think things which fumble for words. Words to myself, nevermind outloud. Thank you today for supplying them.


That's very kind of you, @Peaks. It is my distinct honour to be able to supply them.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Purple Label F/W 2018.


----------



## Oldsarge

SWAT team in mufti?


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Peak and Pine

^^
I don't think that's a guy. I prefer the Ralph stuff I view here to carry, at least as a starting point, the faint possibility of it being worn by me.


----------



## eagle2250

Are there any among us who would actually admit to wearing stirrup equipped trousers? There was a time when I wore uniform pants with the legs bloused over my boots, but I have never seen any fellow wearing pants, with stirrups under foot.


----------



## Peak and Pine

eagle2250 said:


> Are there any among us who would actually admit to wearing stirrup equipped trousers? There was a time when I wore uniform pants with the legs bloused over my boots, but I have never seen any fellow wearing pants, with stirrups under foot.


 I'm telling ya, that's a she. Tiny, lilly white legs and feet, feminine watch, feminine dog, etc. Wish I still had my tree house club house sign to hang on this thread: No Girls Allowed (with the G backwards and Allowed misspelled.)


----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> Purple Label F/W 2018.
> 
> View attachment 46920


Reminds me of years ago, back in the late 1960's and early to mid 1970's, the blaze orange flight suits that the USAF Air Defense Command (ADC) had their Interceptor crews wear. The theory was it made them easier find if they fell out of the sky, but I must ask, aren't sharks color blind? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast

Always fun to see Ralph himself, this time with his wife, make an appearance in our thread.


----------



## Old Road Dog

The mocassin ad is a for RL women's. The green logo is the tip-off.


----------



## Fading Fast

Old Road Dog said:


> The mocassin ad is a for RL women's. The green logo is the tip-off.


Agreed. The gloved hand says so too. Didn't know about the green logo, thank you.

And with all that, it's a handsome moccasin and good looking dog.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Peak and Pine said:


> ^^
> I don't think that's a guy. I prefer the Ralph stuff I view here to carry, at least as a starting point, the faint possibility of it being worn by me.





Peak and Pine said:


> I'm telling ya, that's a she. Tiny, lilly white legs and feet, feminine watch, feminine dog, etc. Wish I still had my tree house club house sign to hang on this thread: No Girls Allowed (with the G backwards and Allowed misspelled.)





Old Road Dog said:


> The mocassin ad is a for RL women's. The green logo is the tip-off.


So how about we keep this thread to its intended purpose and not show girl stuff. I don't wanna look at women's clothes, ever.


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> Purple Label F/W 2018.
> 
> View attachment 46920


The commando look -- they might be members of SAS, one never knows. I suspect they are waiting for Lee Marvin to lead them on a suicidal mission into a castle where the Wehrmacht high command is gathering. Oh sorry, that was an old movie -- but something along those lines.


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> SWAT team in mufti?


_Mufti_! I haven't heard anyone use that word since I left the old country aeons ago. Do you also say _pukkah_, LOL?


----------



## thefringthing

Peak and Pine said:


> I don't wanna look at women's clothes, ever.


Too bad!


----------



## Oldsarge

drpeter said:


> _Mufti_! I haven't heard anyone use that word since I left the old country aeons ago. Do you also say _pukkah_, LOL?


Only sardonically in conjunction with _sahib_. A snide comment on a particular type of Englishman.


----------



## Oldsarge

thefringthing said:


> Too bad!


Well, this is a family-safe site so if we're going to show ladies, let's keep their clothes on. I've passed up many a photo because of that rule.


----------



## Fading Fast

thefringthing said:


> Too bad!


Great example of Ralph at his best for women. Simple color combo, elegant mix of casual and classic styles and all with an American Trad vibe.

Other than the pants and bag, pretty much androgynous clothes but tailored for women so none of that swimming-in-men's-sized clothing that can happen when women try this look.

I'm not particularly familiar with Ralph's women's lines, but those items look Purple Label to me.

I have no true idea, but I assume one could buy that bag or a small car.


----------



## Fading Fast

Oldsarge said:


> Well, this is a family-safe site so if we're going to show ladies, let's keep their clothes on. I've passed up many a photo because of that rule.


That unfortunately is what can and does happen sometimes. Hopefully it won't here. Even Ralph's women's lines are relevant to us as they are - as in TheFringThing's example - heavily influenced by traditional American and English men's attire.

Heck, women have been buying men's classic clothing at least as far back as the 1920s, so much so, that Brooks, first, opened a counter to sell women, women-sized OCBDs, which eventually evolved into a full women's line.

I could fill a decent-sized closet with all the OCBDs, sweaters, jackets and socks that girlfriends have "borrowed" from me over the years.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Fading Fast said:


> Even Ralph's women's lines are relevant to us as they are...heavily influenced by traditional American and English men's attire.


.
No.
Ralph Lauren's *women's* stuff is not relevent to guys, here or anywhere. You didn't know you were posting a women's ad. Okay. If you want a thread about women's clothing, consider starting one. If there were a thread just about beautiful women, non porno as Sarge suggests, I'd tune in in a NY minute. A thread about women's clothes? Look for me in the next county.


----------



## thefringthing

It would appear that some here have much more interesting and considered things to say about women's clothing than others.


----------



## Peak and Pine

thefringthing said:


> It would appear that some here have much more interesting and considered things to say about women's clothing than others.


That would be true. I have zero interesting things to say about women's clothes. You're catching on.


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> Only sardonically in conjunction with _sahib_. A snide comment on a particular type of Englishman.


Actually _pukkah_ means correct, proper or even a fine example -- _pukkah sahib_ means the quintessential white man.


----------



## Oldsarge

Really? Okay, but from whose viewpoint? I thought it referred to an overstuffed Colonel Blimp. We live and learn. Thanks.


----------



## Fading Fast

His sneakers ⇧ reminded me a bit of this ⇩ famous pic of the Duke of Windsor:









Also, cool looking car, but we'll need one of our "car guys" to identify it. And good looking dogs too. Ralph knows how to make every element in an ad work.


----------



## Peak and Pine

^^
The top photo was posted here June 29 #503. (By me.) Maybe run through this thread every so often, to check what's been posted.

Here's something fresh, from the PRL f/w 2020 collection...


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> Really? Okay, but from whose viewpoint? I thought it referred to an overstuffed Colonel Blimp. We live and learn. Thanks.


From what I know, the snide aspect of _pukkah_ comes from the point of view of the _sahibs_ themselves! Very much like Colonel Blimp. When Indians use the expression they use it in the sense of correct, proper, etc. And it applies to more things and people than just those pesky sahibs from England. Sometimes it is used to signify things being correct: "Everything's pukkah, right?"

The term _sahib_, often _sahab_, originally used just for white men, has suffered semantic drift, and now applies to all sorts of people in India. It is routinely used after someone's name, in a respectful manner, especially in the Muslim world (Rafi Sahab), and is the equivalent of the Hindu suffix _-ji_ added to a person's name when being respectful (Lata-ji). And sahib is _sahiba_ for women! Language is infinitely interesting, don't you think?

Another suffix that is commonly used in India, and also in the UK sometimes, is --_wallah . _As in _boxwallah_, an Indian with pretensions to be a member of the sahib world, or someone trying to be like the English in manners and attitudes. More derisively, they would be called _brown sahibs_.

There are hundreds of English words that are from various Indian languages, especially from Hindi, which is spoken widely in the north. Some would surprise most other English speakers. Punch, the drink, is from _paanch_, Hindi for the number five, because five different kinds of booze originally went into punch. Cummerbund, which some of us have worn with black tie, is from _kamar_ (torso) and _bandh_ (tied, to tie). And I'll leave it to you to look up _juggernaut_, and _dekko._

That old Empire keeps striking back_._


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> That unfortunately is what can and does happen sometimes. Hopefully it won't here. Even Ralph's women's lines are relevant to us as they are - as in TheFringThing's example - heavily influenced by traditional American and English men's attire.
> 
> Heck, women have been buying men's classic clothing at least as far back as the 1920s, so much so, that Brooks, first, opened a counter to sell women, women-sized OCBDs, which eventually evolved into a full women's line.
> 
> I could fill a decent-sized closet with all the OCBDs, sweaters, jackets and socks that girlfriends have "borrowed" from me over the years.


You may have touched on the possible focus of a new thread...How often do our gal pals lay claim to the stuff in our closets. It's happened to me far more than occasionally and now you reveal that it has happened to you on a recurring basis. How many others have been touched be this phenomenon, but on second thought, have those garments ever been worn more attractively? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Interesting information. I love the origin of "cummerbund" (which I thought was "cumberbund" for about twenty years). It's neat to see how words come into being and, then, "drift" and "morph" as they do all sorts of things over time.

One that seems relevant to this forum (and I think Old Sarge even asked about this recently - I could be wrong, so apologies to OS if I am) is the word "khaki."

From Merrian Webster:

_In the mid-19th century, units of the British Indian Army applied the Hindi word khāki, "dust-colored, brown," to the color of a uniform cloth. Dull brown uniforms were preferred because they did not show dirt, but the major reason that all colonial units of the British Army eventually adopted them was because they made excellent camouflage. Today we typically associate khaki with fashionable casualness and a summery look rather than British military uniforms. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/khaki_​​​Somewhat related as Americans often call the same pants "khakis" or "chinos:"

From "Style Manual: The History of Chinos and how to wear them:"

_The khaki-coloured military trousers began to be referred to as 'chinos' during the Spanish American war of 1898. The actual word "chino" is derived from the Spanish name for China, as the cotton twill fabric used for the trousers was sourced from, you guessed it, China. It was officially picked up as part of the US Army uniform in the early 20th century and chino trousers became a familiar sight across both World Wars. https://www.burton.co.uk/blog/the-history-of-chinos-how-to-wear/_​​
And One thing we know for sure, Ralph has sold, what must be, an insane number of them. I remember. in the '80s, being in Bloomingdales and the Ralph chino section (just the Ralph men's chino pants) was easily 600 square feet (maybe more) as it was table after table after table piled high with chinos.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 46973
> 
> His sneakers ⇧ reminded me a bit of this ⇩ famous pic of the Duke of Windsor:
> View attachment 46974
> 
> 
> Also, cool looking car, but we'll need one of our "car guys" to identify it. And good looking dogs too. Ralph knows how to make every element in an ad work.


As for the car, I am no expert but if I were to hazard a guess, I'd say Alfa Romeo Spyder.

As for the Duke, he looks especially crisp and elegant in a dark blue blazer and white/cream slacks. The yellow socks and blue shoes are especially nice with the colours of the outfit. Echoes and contrasts. Five buttons on the sleeves -- they add interest to the jacket.

In most ordinary double-breasted blazers, the two top, non-functional buttons are spaced farther to the side than the other two sets of buttons. In most Naval uniform blazers, the buttons are all in two straight columns. I like the latter look and I was wondering why the regular, non-military blazers have the spaced buttons at the top -- is it simply to distinguish them from the Naval uniform, perhaps?


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> You may have touched on the possible focus of a new thread...How often do our gal pals lay claim to the stuff in our closets. It's happened to me far more than occasionally and now you reveal that it has happened to you on a recurring basis. How many others have been touched be this phenomenon, but on second thought, have those garments ever been worn more attractively? :icon_scratch:


I'm 6'1" 150lbs and my girlfriend is 5'11" 125-130lbs. For twenty-three years now, we have "shared" some clothes, which basically is her raiding my closet. To be fair, I have worn an anorak and zip-up sweat jacket (and a few other items) of hers, but the majority of the "trade flow" is from me to her. And yes, every single item (darn it) looks better on her.

Relevant to Ralph, This past winter, I gave (truly gave) her (which simply means the garment left my closet and moved into hers) a Ralph camel-colored cashmere turtleneck that was always a bit too small for me and that had come back even smaller from a recent dry cleaning. And, yup, it looks much better on her.

Since a quick search didn't produce a Ralph ad of said garment, I just snapped this pic of it:


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> You may have touched on the possible focus of a new thread...How often do our gal pals lay claim to the stuff in our closets. It's happened to me far more than occasionally and now you reveal that it has happened to you on a recurring basis. How many others have been touched be this phenomenon, but on second thought, have those garments ever been worn more attractively? :icon_scratch:


I'm with you here @eagle. Women look lovely in almost all articles of clothing worn by men, especially black tie and dinner jacket. I had a girl-friend try on one of my double-breasted (no pun intended) grey flannel suits with a white spread-collar shirt and a Gurkha regimental tie. She looked absolutely stunning. She remarked on how nice the cotton shirt and the wool trousers felt. And I have had girlfriends borrow practically every article of clothing from my closet, and some even declared that they were going to keep those items and not return them to me. I chalked it up to the cost of "girl-friendery".

On the other side, there are men who look splendid in women's clothes too, but this practice hasn't quite gained widespread acceptance, although it may be coming, LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> As for the car, I am no expert but if I were to hazard a guess, I'd say Alfa Romeo Spyder.
> 
> As for the Duke, he looks especially crisp and elegant in a dark blue blazer and white/cream slacks. The yellow socks and blue shoes are especially nice with the colours of the outfit. Echoes and contrasts. Five buttons on the sleeves -- they add interest to the jacket.
> 
> In most ordinary double-breasted blazers, the two top, non-functional buttons are spaced farther to the side than the other two sets of buttons. In most Naval uniform blazers, the buttons are all in two straight columns. I like the latter look and I was wondering why the regular, non-military blazers have the spaced buttons at the top -- is it simply to distinguish them from the Naval uniform, perhaps?


Based the wheels, I'm guessing Jaguar and from the curves the '50s, but others know this stuff so much better than I do.

Re the Duke, I agree, the yellow socks are a perfect touch - he had sartorial skills for sure. Those socks might even have worked in the similar Ralph ad.


----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> ^^
> The top photo was posted here June 29 #503. (By me.) Maybe run through this thread every so often, to check what's been posted.
> 
> Here's something fresh, from the PRL f/w 2020 collection...
> 
> View attachment 46976


Back in the day we had to join one or more of the military services to get a rig like that. Today they just run in to Ralphs and come out looking like a recon ranger. LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> I'm with you here @eagle. Women look lovely in almost all articles of clothing worn by men, especially black tie and dinner jacket. I was had a girl-friend try on one of my double-breasted (no pun intended) grey flannel suits with a white spread-collar shirt and a Gurkha regimental tie. She looked absolutely stunning. She remarked on how nice the cotton shirt and the wool trousers felt. And I have had girlfriends borrow practically every article of clothing from my closet, and some even declared that they were going to keep those items and not return them to me. I chalked it up to the cost of "girl-friendery".
> 
> On the other side, there are men who look splendid in women's clothes too, but this practice hasn't quite gained widespread acceptance, although it may be coming, LOL.


Similarly, every single girlfriend who borrowed items from me noted how much better made men's clothes are versus women's.

And we have this early example of a woman wearing a men's (or men's inspired - looks cut for a woman, BB did that by the '50s) Brooks Brothers OCBD. Who'd say "no" to_ her_ if she asked to borrow something from them:

Grace Kelly putatively in a BB OCBD


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Similarly, every single girlfriend who borrowed items from me noted how much better made men's clothes are versus women's.
> 
> And we have this early example of a woman wearing a men's (or men's inspired - looks cut for a woman, BB did that by the '50s) Brooks Brothers OCBD. Who'd say "no" to_ her_ if she asked to borrow something from them:
> 
> Grace Kelly putatively in a BB OCBD
> View attachment 46986


The picture above incited memories of Mrs Eagle coming to bed wearing one of my old OCBD's as a nightshirt. BB's OCBD's never looked so good! She also seemed to have a thing for my knit polo shirts. Life is so, so good!


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Similarly, every single girlfriend who borrowed items from me noted how much better made men's clothes are versus women's.
> 
> And we have this early example of a woman wearing a men's (or men's inspired - looks cut for a woman, BB did that by the '50s) Brooks Brothers OCBD. Who'd say "no" to_ her_ if she asked to borrow something from them:
> 
> Grace Kelly putatively in a BB OCBD
> View attachment 46986


The layout of the placket, buttons on the right side of the shirt, buttonholes on the left, suggests that Grace Kelly is wearing a man's shirt. Women's shirts and jackets have this pattern reversed. Unless of course this practice was not in existence when this photograph was taken.

And I would not have said no to anything Grace Kelly would have asked!


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> The picture above incited memories of Mrs Eagle coming to bed wearing one of my old OCBD's as a nightshirt. BB's OCBD's never looked so good! She also seemed to have a thing for my knit polo shirts. Life is so, so good!


I have had many women friends and girl friends tell me men's OCBDs, soft and roomy, are perfect nightshirts.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> The layout of the placket, buttons on the right side of the shirt, buttonholes on the left, suggests that Grace Kelly is wearing a man's shirt. Women's shirts and jackets have this pattern reversed. Unless of course this practice was not in existence when this photograph was taken.
> 
> And I would not have said no to anything Grace Kelly would have asked!


All good points. The reason I thought it is maybe a women's cut is that, not only the body (which is easy to tailor), but also the sleeve-width seems cut for a woman (which could have been altered as well).

I guess we'll just have to hop in our time machine, go back and ask Grace.

My one small Grace Kelly story is that my mother was in line ($2 window) at (I think) Belmont Race Track in the '50s and noticed a stunning woman standing behind her in line. Yes, it was Grace Kelly. My mom said she was too beautiful to even take it all in.


----------



## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 46973
> 
> His sneakers ⇧ reminded me a bit of this ⇩ famous pic of the Duke of Windsor:
> View attachment 46974
> 
> 
> Also, cool looking car, but we'll need one of our "car guys" to identify it. And good looking dogs too. Ralph knows how to make every element in an ad work.


The car is not a Jag, the front fenders are wrong. Nor is it an MGA, IMO. I'm suspecting something more expensive/exotic, probably from Italy but with all the models standing in the way, I can't tell.


----------



## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> I have had many women friends and girl friends tell me men's OCBDs, soft and roomy, are perfect nightshirts.


LOL, I happy to hear that you can claim so many women participating in your research on their satisfaction with BB's OCBD's, but if I were to claim any more than just Mrs Eagle, I would be sleeping with one eye open for the rest of my life! :crazy:


----------



## Oldsarge

Peak and Pine said:


> ^^
> The top photo was posted here June 29 #503. (By me.) Maybe run through this thread every so often, to check what's been posted.
> 
> Here's something fresh, from the PRL f/w 2020 collection...
> 
> View attachment 46976


He looks like a member of the Alaska National Guard.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> LOL, I happy to hear that you can claim so many women participating in your research on their satisfaction with BB's OCBD's, but if I were to claim any more than just Mrs Eagle, I would be sleeping with one eye open for the rest of my life! :crazy:


I am just a fortunate bachelor, I suppose, LOL.


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> The car is not a Jag, the front fenders are wrong. Nor is it an MGA, IMO. I'm suspecting something more expensive/exotic, probably from Italy but with all the models standing in the way, I can't tell.


Sarge, my thought was it might be an Alfa Romeo Spyder -- I too felt that it is an Italian car, just from the lines.


----------



## Oldsarge

drpeter said:


> Sarge, my thought was it might be an Alfa Romeo Spyder -- I too felt that it is an Italian car, just from the lines.


Perhaps a Lancia Aurelia Spider B24 like this one?


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> Perhaps a Lancia Aurelia Spider B24 like this one?
> 
> View attachment 46996


That's an excellent possibility -- especially when you compare this Lancia with what's visible of the lines in the car in the RL advert. This one also has the wing-nut-style hubcaps on the car in the advert.


----------



## Oldsarge

The scene in the 'commercial' where Il Principe climbs in, growls "Vai, Fefe" and then motors through the Italian countryside to the strains of "La mia letizia infondere" made me an eternal fan of that motor.


----------



## Fading Fast

Nice pic ⇧ , not sure I get much out of the clothes (love the window though).

So, let's also go with something more clothes-y ⇩ 








99% sure this pic was taken at the Central Park "Boat Pond" only half a dozen or so blocks from my apartment. The cardigan is another example of a massive emblem that I just don't understand. Nice sweater otherwise.


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> The scene in the 'commercial' where Il Principe climbs in, growls "Vai, Fefe" and then motors through the Italian countryside to the strains of "La mia letizia infondere" made me an eternal fan of that motor.


Bellisima! Here it is:






I've always loved Giancarlo Gianini -- remember him as the dandy Pasqualino in Lina Wertmuller's lovely film, _Seven Beauties? _Speaking of Wertmuller, I just saw another one of her fables, _Swept Away_... Sharp and smart!


----------



## Oldsarge

It's a wonderful aria but as with most things grand opera, the plot is cheesy and the lyrics maudlin. IMO, opera is a terrible waste of a glorious human voice.


----------



## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 47020
> 
> Nice pic ⇧ , not sure I get much out of the clothes (love the window though).
> 
> So, let's also go with something more clothes-y ⇩
> View attachment 47021
> 
> 99% sure this pic was taken at the Central Park "Boat Pond" only half a dozen or so blocks from my apartment. The cardigan is another example of a massive emblem that I just don't understand. Nice sweater otherwise.


Really, it is. The whole outfit is splendid . . . except for that silly logo.


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> It's a wonderful aria but as with most things grand opera, the plot is cheesy and the lyrics maudlin. IMO, opera is a terrible waste of a glorious human voice.


True, some are corny and some lyrics are indeed poor. LOL, consider the one that is used routinely to sell tyres and other stuff - _O mio babbino caro_, which is vacuous in meaning, but lovely sounding if you don't know what the words mean.

However, Sarge, I think you pass judgement in too sweeping a fashion. What about _Rigoletto, Otello,_ _Turandot, Der Rosenkavalier or Don Giovanni_? Consider the gorgeous arias from that last one: _In quali excessi...mi tradi quell'alma ingrata_, and_ Il mio tesoro intanto...cercate_. They are meaningful and beautifully sung. I have seen many of the operas mentioned above, and opera to me is about emotion, but also about grander issues and themes. Would you say, for instance, that _Andrea Chenier_ set during the French Revolution is cheesy?

And, more to the point here, opera is a grand opportunity to dress to the nines, go watch the show, and then have a fine, late dinner -- there used to be a French place near Wacker Drive in Chicago that stayed open for the opera crowd. I was an out-of-town member of Chicago's Lyric Opera for many years.


----------



## Oldsarge

I enjoy comic opera. Should my local company decide to do a complete Gilbert and Sullivan I would sign up in a heartbeat. But the plots behind _Rigoletto, Otello _and the rest are beyond comprehension. What possibly could motivate anyone to behave like that and if anyone actually did, why should it be celebrated?

Another thing, I automatically wake up around 5:30 a.m. Staying up until midnight or after can take me off my game for a good couple of days.

Now, an evening of _lieder_ by members of said local opera company would be an experience! Ah, Schubert . . .


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## London380sl

Oldsarge said:


> Perhaps a Lancia Aurelia Spider B24 like this one?
> 
> View attachment 46996


Quite possible but my guess is a Ferrari 250. Definitely Italian.


----------



## Oldsarge

London380sl said:


> Quite possible but my guess is a Ferrari 250. Definitely Italian.


I do believe you're right. Good eye, that man.:icon_hailthee:


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> I enjoy comic opera. Should my local company decide to do a complete Gilbert and Sullivan I would sign up in a heartbeat. But the plots behind _Rigoletto, Otello _and the rest are beyond comprehension. What possibly could motivate anyone to behave like that and if anyone actually did, why should it be celebrated?
> 
> Another thing, I automatically wake up around 5:30 a.m. Staying up until midnight or after can take me off my game for a good couple of days.
> 
> Now, an evening of _lieder_ by members of said local opera company would be an experience! Ah, Schubert . . .


I have listened to and watched recitals of the lovely Schubert _liederen_. They are quite a treat. And I enjoy _opera buffa_ too, although I am not as fond of G & S. Tastes differ, that's fine.

As for the complexities of the plots of opera seria, this is true for novels, plays, films and a host of other performances. Not all themes are necessarily celebrations, whether in opera or elsewhere. And one studies the story and libretto prior to watching the show. To me, complexity is interesting because human motives, goals, actions, and deceits reflect the human condition, whether we are talking about plot or about character.

Most of the great works all over the world reflect this complexity, which is why we have studied them over the ages, and why they are classics. _The_ _Mahabharata_, the longest epic poem in the world, is just about the most complex story I have ever known -- it is stories nested within stories, and it is ten times the size of _The_ _Odyssey _and _The Iliad_ combined. But its study is well worth the effort, even if we condense it into the nine-hour serial film of Peter Brooks. But I understand the view that films, plays, opera, etc., are just for entertainment (because life is too serious?), and sometime I am in the mood for just that, not the serious stuff. However, the light-hearted stuff is not the only thing I would want from plays, operas, novels or films. In my own fiction, I have both serious themes and entertaining, light-hearted stuff, although they are in different novels.

I suppose our tastes do differ in this area. To each his own, I say.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 47126


Now, these colours and ensembles are more my speed! I often wear combinations of khakis, beiges and browns in these materials and textures, but perhaps in a way that is less monochromatic, with bits of pattern and bright colour. I really like the effect created by strips and splashes of red against the dark brown or khaki, or even against an array of greens, from faded dark greens to olive drab. Such effects are captured most iconically in military uniforms, where the background is often olives and browns and khakis, and decorations and insignia can be dark or bright red. Imagine the models in this picture adding a red or maroon silk scarf or necktie, for example. The effect would transform them.


----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 47126


What is that at the top of the fellow on the lefts wellies?

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## Fading Fast

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> What is that at the top of the fellow on the lefts wellies?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR


I have never gone fishing in my life, but I have seen "A River Runs Through it" and "Jaws." 

So, my best completely uniformed guess is that its some sort of "waders" folded down.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> I have never gone fishing in my life, but I have seen "A River Runs Through it" and "Jaws."
> 
> So, my best completely uniformed guess is that its some sort of "waders" folded down.


"Hip waders," folded down for a refreshing breathof fresh air in the lads neither regions. Even on a cool day, hip boots become uncomfortably hot, after awhile.


----------



## Oldsarge

That's frequently the style of boot you see on offshore fishing boats. With fish and waves sloshing around, Wellingtons aren't high enough, at least for the deckhands.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I have never gone fishing in my life, but I have seen "A River Runs Through it" and "Jaws."
> 
> So, my best completely uniformed guess is that its some sort of "waders" folded down.


They look similar to wellies, but in Wisconsin, up here in the Great White North, we call them "swampers"!


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> I do believe you're right. Good eye, that man.:icon_hailthee:


That sounds right -- a Ferrari 350. At least, you and I were in the (Italian) ballpark, Sarge. LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

Posted this one for a few reason: The connect to the discussion of waders, the Fair Isle and the Springer Spaniel (who looks a lot like our boy).


----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

Who has worn waders in a brown 3 piece and a coat?

I have booted waders for trout fishing and duck hunting, but those are overalls! And I tend not to wear a suit in the duck blind. But I suppose I could!

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## drpeter

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> Who has worn waders in a brown 3 piece and a coat?
> 
> I have booted waders for trout fishing and duck hunting, but those are overalls! And I tend not to wear a suit in the duck blind. But I suppose I could!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR


Agreed. There is a time and a place for every type of clothing, but consider: The English used to garden in their neckties. Perhaps they still do.

That said, I have this image now of Mr BSR resolutely attaching a carefully-tied fly and casting into the River Test in Hampshire. I'm told the trout fishing is splendid there. Not sure, though, if the UK is open to Americans, given the Covid situation.

And regarding fly-tying, I have a droll story. At my university, we had an English professor named Michael Dry who taught well for several years, even achieved tenure. But then he resigned, deciding to go back to his true love: He started a small business tying and selling flies. With a last name like Dry, I suppose _kismet_ was unrelenting, he was predestined for the fly business!


----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

drpeter said:


> Agreed. There is a time and a place for every type of clothing, but consider: The English used to garden in their neckties. Perhaps they still do.
> 
> That said, I have this image now of Mr BSR resolutely attaching a carefully-tied fly and casting into the River Test in Hampshire. I'm told the trout fishing is splendid there. Not sure, though, if the UK is open to Americans, given the Covid situation.
> 
> And regarding fly-tying, I have a droll story. At my university, we had an English professor named Michael Dry who taught well for several years, even achieved tenure. But then he resigned, deciding to go back to his true love: He started a small business tying and selling flies. With a last name like Dry, I suppose _kismet_ was unrelenting, he was predestined for the fly business!


Unfortunately, a trip to the UK currently requires 2 weeks of heavily monitored quarantine for visitors from the US.

My wife and I were forced to postpone our scheduled UK Wainwright Coast to Coast walk to next summer as a result.

I need to wet a hook more often. I neglected fly fishing while based in Karachi. Karachi was a desert on the shores of a sewage filled bay, not good fishing there unless one is looking to catch mosquitoes. Some RW qualifying trophy sized mozzies there. Taxidermy costs on mozzies were calculated by the pound. 

The fly fishing in South Africa was excellent. We fished for yellows on the Vaal. It was like the Garden of Eden. We also hit stocked trout ponds in Mpumalanga. It wasn't great fishing but fine practice for casting.

Each SA fishing shop had a local who tied flies. I bought several hundred for about fifty cents per fly.

My collection of fresh water flies....










Back to Ralph, he uses a lot of Safari styling in his design. My house looks like a RL Swahili Safari shoot on steroids.

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## FiscalDean

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> Who has worn waders in a brown 3 piece and a coat?
> 
> I have booted waders for trout fishing and duck hunting, but those are overalls! And I tend not to wear a suit in the duck blind. But I suppose I could!
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR


For years, I relied on boot footed waders for my trout fishing expeditions. I switched to stocking foot waders a few years ago. The difference is amazing, they are not uncomfortable in the least.


----------



## Oldsarge

I believe that boot footed waders are illegal in Oregon these days, especially the felt-bottomed ones. The ODFW worries about anglers carrying invasive species larvae from stream to stream in the fibers. So cleated wading boots all come with sockets you can screw 'crampons' into. Most useful in slow water streams where the algae growth is abundant. I definitely need to get back on the water now that my back is better.


----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

My waders are rubber “chain” lugged on the bottom. In the river they are slicker than goose s**t and it takes a lot of effort to keep from tumbling over on algae covered stones. So far, so good, but I keep a knife handy to cut myself loose if I fall and start to fill up. 

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## Oldsarge

Thus the steel 'caulks'.


----------



## drpeter

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> Unfortunately, a trip to the UK currently requires 2 weeks of heavily monitored quarantine for visitors from the US.
> 
> My wife and I were forced to postpone our scheduled UK Wainwright Coast to Coast walk to next summer as a result.
> 
> I need to wet a hook more often. I neglected fly fishing while based in Karachi. Karachi was a desert on the shores of a sewage filled bay, not good fishing there unless one is looking to catch mosquitoes. Some RW qualifying trophy sized mozzies there. Taxidermy costs on mozzies were calculated by the pound.
> 
> The fly fishing in South Africa was excellent. We fished for yellows on the Vaal. It was like the Garden of Eden. We also hit stocked trout ponds in Mpumalanga. It wasn't great fishing but fine practice for casting.
> 
> Each SA fishing shop had a local who tied flies. I bought several hundred for about fifty cents per fly.
> 
> My collection of fresh water flies....
> 
> View attachment 47177
> 
> 
> Back to Ralph, he uses a lot of Safari styling in his design. My house looks like a RL Swahili Safari shoot on steroids.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR


These flies are lovely! I used to think that all flies were colorful with bright reds and browns and so forth. But apparently there are other aspects of flies, like motion, that can attract fish. I know nothing about fishing, except what I have read. The only times I fished was when we would climb aboard the catamarans in the sea, used by village fishermen in Kerala, India. We swam at Kovalam, one of the loveliest and most unspoiled beaches in the world (then, not now, alas). And often we would go with the fishermen and help them. They strung nylon lines out with bait as they moved forward, and hauled in the fish that took the bait. Very different and much less elegant than casting lines into rivers. But it was their livelihood. Simple, ordinary folk, a pleasure to be with. Good memories of good times with friends.


----------



## drpeter

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> My waders are rubber "chain" lugged on the bottom. In the river they are slicker than goose s**t and it takes a lot of effort to keep from tumbling over on algae covered stones. So far, so good, but I keep a knife handy to cut myself loose if I fall and start to fill up.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR


Good grief, I had no idea of these complications that come from wearing waders! Water-logged waders could really do a number on you, I suppose. This may be a dumb question, so please forgive me: Perhaps chain-lugging is the same functionally, but wouldn't _cleats_ on the soles of the waders be more effective? They would bite down into the riverbed and give you a stronger grip now, won't they?


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## London380sl

Wow! Talk about a poster child for private schools 👔 .


----------



## eagle2250

^^
....or Roger Moore in his much younger years! LOL.


----------



## drpeter

London380sl said:


> Wow! Talk about a poster child for private schools 👔 .


Which private school might that be? I can see a crown, the classic three lions, and three stars (they should be _fleurs-de-lis_) and the head of a lion on the top right of the crest. The rest is obscured. That would _seem_ to be the Royal Arms of England circa the 14th century, the reign of Henry IV. It's not exactly clear to me why Ralph Lauren would put such a crest on a blazer since he has his own RL crest with his name on it. He does have a habit of appropriating symbols and names, though, so perhaps he is now trying to use a past version of the Royal Arms of England. Maybe that is all right, LOL, the copyright or trademark may have expired on the darn thing!

It can't be a cricketing blazer because the crest for the England and Wales cricket team ( formerly the MCC or Marylebone Cricket Club ) is a crown with three lions in a vertical row below the crown. They are playing a Test series against the West Indies at the moment, for those who are interested -- and I've been watching the games, as a former cricketer.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> ....or Roger Moore in his much younger years! LOL.


Well, thank you for noticing Eagle. Your friend, RM


----------



## Fading Fast

And some pics from the '20s and '30s that show the inspiration.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 47289
> 
> And some pics from the '20s and '30s that show the inspiration.
> View attachment 47290
> View attachment 47291


Looking at that second picture in the series, I didn't realize that golf, back in the day, was a contact sport? :crazy:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Looking at that second picture in the series, I didn't realize that golf, back in the day, was a contact sport? :crazy:


If that pic is accurate, they'd have needed some serious concussion protocols. 

Kidding aside, I love how bold golf attire was in the '20s and '30s.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 47341


Clearly I must up my wardrobing standards for fishing excursions, but more importantly, the picture above incites me to recall that old Nancy Sinatra musical classic;

"These boots are made for walking
and that's just what they will do.
One of these days these boots
are going to walk right all over you!

Come on boots, start walking... " LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Clearly I must up my wardrobing standards for fishing excursions, but more importantly, the picture above incites me to recall that old Nancy Sinatra musical classic;
> 
> "These boots are made for walking
> and that's just what they will do.
> One of these days these boots
> are going to walk right all over you!
> 
> Come on boots, start walking... " LOL.


I can see the image of Nancy in her white boots and, since we have the internet, here it is:









My guess, Ralph was really going for an idealized version of Karen Blixen and Denis Finch Hatton:


----------



## Oldsarge

I am having a hard time visualizing someone wearing a sport coat and necktie on a canoeing expedition. There's a cross-Atlantic disconnect that simply doesn't compute.


----------



## Fading Fast

Another vintage-y looking golf one:









And I saw this J.Crew ad and thought that it was pretty darn close to a Ralph one. Not that surprising as J.Crew is (or used to be) a kinda younger, less-expensive, mainly casual-clothes version of Ralph, but this ad struck me as very Ralph like.


----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 47341


That's a textbook Katherine Hepburn look.

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## Peak and Pine

Didn't know anybody did this but me, wear a rugby over an OCBD. Check out the shirt detail on the side opposite the placard. I don't do that. But it gives me an idea. (Damn though. A Maine innatism: distain arises when enhancing ideas don't originate from within.)


----------



## Peak and Pine

...but I would not do it with a tie. Although maybe I would. Hefta think it ovah.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 47448


I can't imagine anyone actually dressing like that outside of a period movie but I love the look.


----------



## Fading Fast

Staying with the Polo coat for another day. Just my opinion, but this looks like a "fashion" shot for Ralph to play to the fashion magazines and trade, not an outfit it really expects anyone to wear. My friend who works in the industry tells me a lot of this goes on where companies do this to get a "buzz" in the fashion world itself.


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> ...but I would not do it with a tie. Although maybe I would. Hefta think it ovah.
> 
> View attachment 47402


This lad's prepared for both eventualities -- rugger match or afternoon tea. What does the FC in RLFC stand for? Football Club? Fencing Club?


----------



## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> Staying with the Polo coat for another day. Just my opinion, but this looks like a "fashion" shot for Ralph to play to the fashion magazines and trade, not an outfit it really expects anyone to wear. My friend who works in the industry tells me a lot of this goes on where companies do this to get a "buzz" in the fashion world itself.
> View attachment 47491


This is just bizarre. He has on a polo coat (soft, warm, enveloping) but he is wearing no socks under his sneakers (summery, casual, sporty). Might we speak of cognitive disconnect here?


----------



## Fading Fast

Oldsarge said:


> This is just bizarre. He has on a polo coat (soft, warm, enveloping) but he is wearing no socks under his sneakers (summery, casual, sporty). Might we speak of cognitive disconnect here?


That's part of why I think it's an "inside-fashion" shot. Fashion-industry people speak a different language than most of us. And while I don't speak it, I think I can recognize when it's being spoken.


----------



## Peak and Pine

drpeter said:


> What does the FC in RLFC stand for? Football Club? Fencing Club?


Fake Crap, his lowest quality line. Check the fabric content tag: _50% Cotton 50% Old newspapers_.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

Meant to post this a few days ago when we were deep (  ) in our wader discussion:


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> Fake Crap, his lowest quality line. Check the fabric content tag: _50% Cotton 50% Old newspapers_.


Haha! Old newspapers -- now I understand why some of them are called rags...


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## rl1856

Fading Fast said:


> Another vintage-y looking golf one:
> View attachment 47386
> 
> 
> And I saw this J.Crew ad and thought that it was pretty darn close to a Ralph one. Not that surprising as J.Crew is (or used to be) a kinda younger, less-expensive, mainly casual-clothes version of Ralph, but this ad struck me as very Ralph like.
> View attachment 47388


Several influences in this picture: Bruce Brown/ California Surfer; Clean Cut Eastern Preppie; Cybill Shepperd Girl Next Door


----------



## Fading Fast

We all probably remember this talked about Ralph Lauren model (not a professional model is what I remember) and possibly, probably, it's a pic that's been posted before, but if not, it's such a neat sweater that I wanted to show it.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> We all probably remember this talked about Ralph Lauren model (not a professional model is what I remember) and possibly, probably, it's a pic that's been posted before, but if not, it's such a neat sweater that I wanted to show it.
> View attachment 47666


If that older gentleman is not a professional model he should have been...he has got the looks and the poise to carry the job well. Love his rig, with the possible exception of the bow tie. I suspect I would have opted for a bladed tie. I have never been able to get genuinely comfortable with a bow tie! :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> If that older gentleman is not a professional model he should have been...he has got the looks and the poise to carry the job well. Love his rig, with the possible exception of the bow tie. I suspect I would have opted for a bladed tie. I have never been able to get genuinely comfortable with a bow tie! :icon_scratch:


I'll try to look the story up later when time permits, but I'm pretty sure he was simply a "regular" guy who just had the look and somehow a connection to Ralph or the company in some way and agreed to do a series of ads. Again, though, this is all from an old and possibly faulty memory.

I think we talked about it early, but for me personally, I can't pull off a bowtie as, like you, I don't feel comfortable with one and won't wear something if I'm not. That said, I do like them on those who can pull them off in the right situation and I think this gentleman can.


----------



## Peak and Pine

^
Nobody can pull off a bow tie.
Even those who think they can eventually give up. Famous tee vee personalities Tucker Carlson and George Will spent most of their on-air life in nothing but bows. Then they came to their senses, look at them now. A bow tie, like the pin wheel beanie cap, is not the best choice if you want to be taken seriously. Which is why I often wear one, the pin wheel beanie, when I post here.









.
Dying your hair coal black if you're pushing 80 and you've got an all-white mustache, like grim faced pops here, while badly in need of an eye brow trim is also not the best of looks. Nor is hugging those pouty faced boys.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Forgot you might not be familiar...


----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> ^
> Nobody can pull off a bow tie.
> Even those who think they can eventually give up. Famous tee vee personalities Tucker Carlson and George Will spent most of their on-air life in nothing but bows. Then they came to their senses, look at them now. A bow tie, like the pin wheel beanie cap, is not the best choice if you want to be taken seriously. Which is why I often wear one, the pin wheel beanie, when I post here.
> 
> View attachment 47672
> 
> .
> Dying your hair coal black if you're pushing 80 and you've got an all-white mustache, like grim faced pops here, while badly in need of an eye brow trim is also not the best of looks. Nor is hugging those pouty faced boys.


Hey! Now wait just a minute...those eyebrows look a lot like mine before the barber cleans them up. Hell, there are times I go in sooner for a haircut, not because the hair is too long, but because the eyebrows need work! LOL. 

PS: My hair is also white and be assured, I don't dye nothin!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> If that older gentleman is not a professional model he should have been...he has got the looks and the poise to carry the job well. Love his rig, with the possible exception of the bow tie. I suspect I would have opted for a bladed tie. I have never been able to get genuinely comfortable with a bow tie! :icon_scratch:


Here's what I've been able to find so far. It seems his name is Tom Moore and he was a professional architect. (A snippet on Google implied he had passed away, but not clear.)

https://www.ivy-style.com/a-double-toast-to-tom-moore.html
https://www.ivy-style.com/the-dignified-hoodie-a-gallery-of-that-gentleman-80s-polo-model.html
I think I read a more in-depth article on him at some point, but I haven't been able to find it yet.

Eagle, thank you for your nice comments, TM


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> ^
> Nobody can pull off a bow tie.
> Even those who think they can eventually give up. Famous tee vee personalities Tucker Carlson and George Will spent most of their on-air life in nothing but bows. Then they came to their senses, look at them now. A bow tie, like the pin wheel beanie cap, is not the best choice if you want to be taken seriously. Which is why I often wear one, the pin wheel beanie, when I post here.
> 
> View attachment 47672
> 
> .
> Dying your hair coal black if you're pushing 80 and you've got an all-white mustache, like grim faced pops here, while badly in need of an eye brow trim is also not the best of looks. Nor is hugging those pouty faced boys.


I must rise to the defense of bowties.

Really @Peaks? Are you sure _nobody_ can pull off a bow tie? Universal statements (all men..., all women..., no one...) are almost always false, and I doubt if the statement about bow ties is the exception that proves that rule. I've worn bow ties consistently for over thirty years (along with four-in-hands as well) and I have always, without exception, received compliments. I have a close friend and colleague, who also wears bowties, and he too has received positive responses. And these are not just from friends aiming to be pleasant -- or students angling for a better grade, LOL.

I think the dislike of bowties stems from the fact that they may be hard to tie for many people, and also by the fact that we have been inundated with a lot of images in films and elsewhere which place bow ties on clowns and kooks, and also on little children, almost all of which are pre-tied bows that seldom look good. Such images make the stereotype persist. So perhaps the problem is not with the wearer of the bow tie, but with the attitudes fostered in us by those negative or infantilizing images. It's hard to take clowns and small children seriously, although one really should. For a nice defense of bow ties, please read Bruce Boyer -- it's Chapter 3 in _True_ _Style_.

Would you say the chaps shown below can't pull off a bow tie? Let me offer these two gentlemen against Will and Carlson. They're both people I personally hold in far greater respect than either Will or Carlson:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Here's what I've been able to find so far. It seems his name is Tom Moore and he was a professional architect. (A snippet on Google implied he had passed away, but not clear.)
> 
> https://www.ivy-style.com/a-double-toast-to-tom-moore.html
> https://www.ivy-style.com/the-dignified-hoodie-a-gallery-of-that-gentleman-80s-polo-model.html
> I think I read a more in-depth article on him at some point, but I haven't been able to find it yet.
> 
> Eagle, thank you for your nice comments, TM
> View attachment 47713


Thank you for all that research on Tom Moore. It was not surprising to hear that he was an architect by trade...he just has that look. It appears from the pics that he did a fair amount of work as a model for Polo. From what I read, Tom seems a genuinely nice man. Thanks again.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 47773


I like this very much. Even the contrasting collar doesn't bother me the way it usually does. I could definitely wear that to the Club or the Art Museum.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 47825


I've never been one to wear a knit collared polo over a broadcloth shirt, but the young man in the ad seems to be wearing such carelessly and well. I do like that collared cardigan vest he is wearing!


----------



## Old Road Dog

Definitely has the "dressed hurriedly when my girl-friend's husband arrived home early" look.


----------



## Oldsarge

That can't possibly be the POW can it?


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ I wasn't too impressed with yesterday's pic either.

⇩ So let's try to kick it up today (chance it's a dupe as it looks vaguely familiar, but so many of these Ralph pics are starting to blend together in my small head):








Okay, what I don't get is how those too-long trousers made it past Ralph's team's usually exacting standards.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ I wasn't too impressed with yesterday's pic either.
> 
> ⇩ So let's try to kick it up today (chance it's a dupe as it looks vaguely familiar, but so many of these Ralph pics are starting to blend together in my small head):
> View attachment 47931
> 
> Okay, what I don't get is how those too-long trousers made it past Ralph's team's usually exacting standards.


And there's the triangle of death again -- blade of tie, shirt and jacket quarters, bordered by the low-waisted trousers. Maybe we can create a single word for this effect: Necrodelta?

A general comment about the Lauren adverts: I think the Lauren team often throws too many colours and patterns together with little or no sense of balance. Small things go a long way in producing innovative and interesting looks. Subtlety is key to this process, and that seems to be missing in many of these images. On a handsome young model, the clash isn't too obvious, but on the average male, it would be.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> And there's the triangle of death again -- blade of tie, shirt and jacket quarters, bordered by the low-waisted trousers. Maybe we can create a single word for this effect: Necrodelta?
> 
> A general comment about the Lauren adverts: I think the Lauren team often throws too many colours and patterns together with little or no sense of balance. Small things go a long way in producing innovative and interesting looks. Subtlety is key to this process, and that seems to be missing in many of these images. On a handsome young model, the clash isn't too obvious, but on the average male, it would be.


One, agree completely about the triangle - shame that isn't understood and respected by clothing designers anymore.

I also agree about the use of too many colors, patterns and, even, clothes (think of the several layers of shirts that often appear in Ralph ads, for example), which is why I, overall, liked the last Polo pic as it didn't have an abundance of colors or patterns or layers.

I think - purely opinion - that Ralph's team does the surfeit of colors, patterns and layering thing, in part, simply to display more items (more bang for the advertising buck so to speak) and, in a meta game, to convince young men who are just forming their opinions about style that doing all that is proper dressing; hence, they need to own a lot more (Ralph Lauren) clothes to accomplish said look.


----------



## London380sl

Hmmmm…... Overall I like the look. The only thing that I don't like, apart from the pant length, are the shoes. Nice looking shoes but , for me, they don't work with the jacket. I would have gone with black or burgundy loafers.


----------



## Adriel Rowley

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> There is a saying, I think it goes "A man in a kilt is a man and a half"
> 
> I don't think a man can don a kilt and not exude confidence. It takes a bit of fortitude to wear the Scottish skirt and be a physical representation of all the blood and history behind it.
> 
> I am an American citizen and Scottish, English, and German by heritage. My name is Scott, yet I have been directly challenged on a few occasions by drunken Scots for sporting the kilt, but I haven't met a man yet with the balls to try to take it from me. Maybe it is the knife in the sock?
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR


Paternal side is mostly Germanic, a little English (really no information before my Great Great Grandfather moved from Ohio to Texas, all we have of him and all have on his son is loved women and changing his name). Maternal Grandfather's family know very little, other than his Grandmother was an Irish immigrant who had black hair with green eyes, and maternal Grandmother's family didn't give a damn about family (though my maternal Great Great Grandmother did tell me proudly she was Irish and why she treasured her Belleek). In short, have no proof to back what little I have found in research. So then how does one be certain wearing the right tartan if one asks?

I used to wonder why had so much inner turmoil, then doing genealogical research, seems I have English, Irish, Scottish, and Welsh ancestry. 😜 😁


----------



## Adriel Rowley

Oldsarge said:


> For a number of years after she left the Active AF, my daughter worked in Washington, DC. We never asked what she did but it was kind of a hint that she got a MA in geography with a specialty in remote sensing. People would brightly ask, "And what does your daughter do?" We would put on a straight face and reply, deadpan, "She works for The Government." That was all it took to change the subject.


Dad worked for the Government, as a lad, that seemed mysterious, intriguing. Now that he has passed, find out a lot of interesting things I wish he talked about (ex. we both were draftsmen), again, back to mysterious, intriguing. In his storage unit was Government property (think it got lost in the divorce mess), plethora of pictures (the best being of his hands), and a plan of a ship mounted antenna he drafted (will get a frame for it and hang it on the wall, the only art I have of his).

Now looking at the wealthy life my folks lived before the divorce and Dad's options, wonder if I could have gone to Europe and Africa like had dreamed of as a lad. I knew at my maternal Grandfather's passing he was worth over 20 million and at least part, if not full owner, of over 50 businesses, however, didn't know he offered his son-in-law a share of the umbrella business, plus later us children, and Dad turned him down for some odd reason (and so we inherited nothing). At least as Grandmother spending all that money her husband worked so hard for, we got to enjoy some of it (ex. trip to Tahiti).


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Old Road Dog

I agree with FF's comments. It's too bad that RL is trying so hard to make their products fit a template that is created by the fashion industry instead of adhering to the spirit of updated traditional taste.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 48015


I like the jacket, but it appears a bit to short in the waist and the sleeves and, were it mine, I would not pair it with a pair of white peggers!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I like the jacket, but it appears a bit to short in the waist and the sleeves and, were it mine, I would not pair it with a pair of white peggers!


Agreed on all points. Pretty sure this is from a Ralph fashion show, so some of that is just for the show itself. But as we all at AAAC know, unfortunately, sport coats are cut short today versus historical standards.

Had instead of white "peggers," the top part of the outfit been paired with, say, a pair of white duck dress trousers, the entire outfit would have had a '30s Apparel Arts vibe.


----------



## Old Road Dog

There is a point beyond which clothing becomes costume. Would you you buy and wear this? You clearly would have to be young and very successful.

Polo was not always this impractical to wear. Their current tailored clothing volume must be be small as the fit is.


----------



## Old Road Dog

Just saw these numbers in this week's summary of the men's clothing journal MR:
"Ralph Lauren revenues slipped 66 percent for the recent quarter"....-77% in the U.S.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 48043


Great ad copy, for sure. I'd love to have the jacket featured and I do have the OD sweater pictured. Wish I could get a better look at the shoes...they are in deep shadow on my monitor.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Great ad copy, for sure. I'd love to have the jacket featured and I do have the OD sweater pictured. Wish I could get a better look at the shoes...they are in deep shadow on my monitor.


I'm sorry, they don't look much clearer on my screen. From the single eyelet rough-leather lace I can just make out, I'd guess maybe a camp moc.

I know it's silly, but I like that he has on a tie. For that guy, it works.


----------



## Oldsarge

The jacket looks like an L.L. Bean car coat that I owned some forty years ago. Of course, even if I still had it, it wouldn't fit but it was sharp looking.


----------



## Fading Fast

Cross post with the Tweed thread.


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Fading Fast

Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 48116


Individually, the items look beautiful. But the glen plaid tie coming off the thin-striped shirt is just too many lines and small patterns going too many ways, too close to each other.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Individually, the items look beautiful. But the glen plaid tie coming off the thin-striped shirt is just too many lines and small patterns going too many ways, too close to each other.


Agreed. In addition, those lines are all grey, so the whole effect seems rather muddled. And the contrasting white collar makes it worse, not better, I think. Consider how much better the ensemble would have looked with just one change: A solid pink shirt with spread collar (no contrast). Such a background would have made the tie stand out beautifully (or, as they say, "pop").


----------



## Fading Fast

It didn't say, but I assume this was a Ralph eyewear ad. That said, note the almost perfect '60s Ivy outfit: grey herringbone sport coat (guessing it's not a suit), blue OCBD and black knit tie. Other than the unbuttoned collar, it's spot on.

In fact, Dustin Hoffman's character wore, pretty much, this exact outfit in a scene from 1967's "The Graduate."


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 48128
> 
> It didn't say, but I assume this was a Ralph eyewear ad. That said, note the almost perfect '60s Ivy outfit: grey herringbone sport coat (guessing it's not a suit), blue OCBD and black knit tie. Other than the unbuttoned collar, it's spot on.
> 
> In fact, Dustin Hoffman's character wore, pretty much, this exact outfit in a scene from 1967's "The Graduate."
> View attachment 48129


But Hoffman did button his collar.


----------



## Adriel Rowley

drpeter said:


> Ah, I see. If it's 2013, then it's probably old style. I have trouble believing that tight jackets and narrow-trousered suits came into fashion seven years ago!
> 
> I wonder if anyone has looked at how long these fashion innovations last before things cycle through to the next "new" thing. Anyway, here are some general thoughts, my dates and periods are pretty approximate.
> 
> Tight, drainpipe or stovepipe trousers of the kind seen today were last seen in the late fifties and early sixties, as far as I can tell. That gave way to the terrible, double-knit polyester fashion decade of the seventies, and during that time bell-bottomed trousers also took hold. Then we went back to proper materials like wool or cotton, but trousers became straight-legged with minimal taper, along with pleats that had come back in style. But pleats, I think, had gone out of fashion in the fifties and sixties (maybe even during and after WWII), so were not fashionable for quite a long time. In the eighties and nineties, trousers became wider-legged, but remained pleated, while there was a return of the double-breasted jacket not seen since the forties, almost. Now that seems to have gone into fashion history as well. Or maybe not quite. Similar comments can be made about lapel sizes and widths and the width of neckties, both waxing and waning every few seasons. Or the collars of shirts -- remember the enormous collars of the early seventies?
> 
> So that's my fashion story and I'm sticking to it, LOL. Putting all this together, would you say that a fashion cycle, while it may have lost its newness, is round about 7-10 years?


I don't understand why I see so much dislike for double knit. Unless because they are polyester? I thought would not ever find something so comfortable, until this forum turned me onto wool cavalry twill, which I am still appreciative. Now if there was a Summer weight...

Agree it seems the double breasted has faded. Is this not just due to trends though also in part manufactures cutting time and costs? Were not men in the pre 1950 or so willing to spend more as be using them far more, dances, dinners, funerals, weddings? Wasn't suit fashions less volatile and men didn't have to closely follow trends (ex. '30s and '40s crown height and band width varied)?

As for pleats, I prefer not to wear them, as have thighs the size of tree trunks and calfs like twigs and feel it only accentuates. The best option are trousers with front darts, have the ease without added layers. My guess is these are less common as adds an extra step, correct?

Or am I talking to myself again?...


----------



## Adriel Rowley

Peak and Pine said:


> Can't find attribution, so may be only Ralph-esque. Think the loud plaid shirt with the quiet sand suit looks pretty good. Wouldn't have thought so until seeing. It's a young guy look, maybe not. Guy on left rushed to Urgent Care immediately after photo shoot, broken left ankle.
> View attachment 44099


Looks like the fellow has Hypermobility. It is a curse (early arthritis due to the joints moving more than should) and a blessing (get through tight, awkward, spaces, like when bio "mom" forgets to get you a new key, so crawl through about a nine by 18 inch bathroom window six feet off the ground).


----------



## drpeter

Adriel Rowley said:


> I don't understand why I see so much dislike for double knit. Unless because they are polyester? I thought would not ever find something so comfortable, until this forum turned me onto wool cavalry twill, which I am still appreciative. Now if there was a Summer weight...
> 
> Agree it seems the double breasted has faded. Is this not just due to trends though also in part manufactures cutting time and costs? Were not men in the pre 1950 or so willing to spend more as be using them far more, dances, dinners, funerals, weddings? Wasn't suit fashions less volatile and men didn't have to closely follow trends (ex. '30s and '40s crown height and band width varied)?
> 
> As for pleats, I prefer not to wear them, as have thighs the size of tree trunks and calfs like twigs and feel it only accentuates. The best option are trousers with front darts, have the ease without added layers. My guess is these are less common as adds an extra step, correct?
> 
> Or am I talking to myself again?...


I dislike 100% polyester garments because, for me at least, they look bad and feel bad on the skin. What's more they don't breathe well and look rather shiny, although there are some versions that look a bit more like natural fabric. If you add cotton or wool to some small amount of polyester fibre, then one can have a much better-looking and more comfortable garment. On top of being made of polyester, the double knits had a cheap, plastic look -- at least the ones I saw people wearing. Natural fibers are generally better for the body and better looking. All that said, cotton is perhaps the most unsustainable material -- I read somewhere that it took 700 gallons of water to grow enough cotton for a single T shirt!

You're right, cutting time and costs, and perhaps the extra cloth required, may all have worked against the double-breasted suit. And mid-century, people definitely wore suits and ties more often than now. It was simply a more formal time. Partly due to this practice, there were more suits around and so one could have a mix of single and double-breasted jackets. I am sure there were some cyclical variations during the fifties and forties too.

Pleats I consider a matter of personal preference. I have trousers that are both pleated and pleatless, and for the former, I prefer English-style pleats that open toward the fly. For pleatless styles, the military dress trousers with a high rise and snug waist are ideal for me. In fact I have several Army and Air Force trousers which wear well with odd jackets. I don't care for very tight trousers, or very tight and short jackets either, and both these seem to be part of the current wave, although that too may be going out now. Moderate trouser width and jacket cut, moderate lapels, these are things that carry clothes much farther and look fine no matter what the fashion of the period might dictate.


----------



## Adriel Rowley

Fading Fast said:


> Complete agreement here. It's Ralph (the company) being fashiony. The problem is that a entire generation has now been raised without seeing older men (than they) wearing properly fitted and accessorized suits.
> 
> I noted yesterday (as Flanderian does often) that even TV shows and movies, which used to clothe and tailor their actors very well, don't anymore. So where is a kid to learn the classic way to dress ?
> 
> I learned as a kid out of college from the older men at work, from older TV shows and movies (and even contemporary ones were still okay, overall, then) and from the better salesmen in the the traditional mens stores, but today a young man out of college would have to put in a lot of effort to learn the classic way and filter out a lot of current cultural advice.


This forum doesn't seem to have a lot of folks under the age of 35, so if may, will chime in?

The only way I would think they know be if have and interest and/or have someone in their life to show them. My Dad, rest in peace, had no interest in learning, so didn't and never really had the need until married into a moneyed family. I somehow got the interest when 12 years old, I had a school presentation and decided I wanted to dress up for it. Opa got up earlier than usual, took me to the hall closet and had me pick out a tie, then back into the front hall, where he taught me to tie a tie. I thankfully was able to inherit that tie, many don't have the tie they first wore? Sadly, shortly after that he passed, got a cold from one of the Grandchildren, I still feel guilty. I also learn from thrift store purchases (for a few dollars one can try an outfit for a while), vintage pictures, few great role models, and this amazing forum.

By the way, thought this thread be so dull, started in because too sick to do anything else, and there is a wealth of knowledge, not just clothes, all sorts of bits of life, from motor vehicles to crossdressing girlfriends to dogs.


----------



## Adriel Rowley

drpeter said:


> I dislike 100% polyester garments because, for me at least, they look bad and feel bad on the skin. What's more they don't breathe well and look rather shiny, although there are some versions that look a bit more like natural fabric. If you add cotton or wool to some small amount of polyester fibre, then one can have a much better-looking and more comfortable garment. On top of being made of polyester, the double knits had a cheap, plastic look -- at least the ones I saw people wearing. Natural fibers are generally better for the body and better looking. All that said, cotton is perhaps the most unsustainable material -- I read somewhere that it took 700 gallons of water to grow enough cotton for a single T shirt!
> 
> You're right, cutting time and costs, and perhaps the extra cloth required, may all have worked against the double-breasted suit. And mid-century, people definitely wore suits and ties more often than now. It was simply a more formal time. Partly due to this practice, there were more suits around and so one could have a mix of single and double-breasted jackets. I am sure there were some cyclical variations during the fifties and forties too.
> 
> Pleats I consider a matter of personal preference. I have trousers that are both pleated and pleatless, and for the former, I prefer English-style pleats that open toward the fly. For pleatless styles, the military dress trousers with a high rise and snug waist are ideal for me. In fact I have several Army and Air Force trousers which wear well with odd jackets. I don't care for very tight trousers, or very tight and short jackets either, and both these seem to be part of the current wave, although that too may be going out now. Moderate trouser width and jacket cut, moderate lapels, these are things that carry clothes much farther and look fine no matter what the fashion of the period might dictate.


I agree about most polyester, have learned from this forum there are many better choices, however, about 100 times the price.

As for cotton, yes, takes lots of water, and therefore one should minimize the number and increase the life. I have gotten over 10 years out of many shirts, some over 25 (I have one of Opa's work shirts and bet it is over 50 years old). One way is when the elbows finally blow out, become work shirts, and after that, either go to the fabric recycler or become rags (for Opa that was gun cleaning cloths).

Sorry wasn't clear, yes there was cyclical, however, seems was less rapid and also variations also based on preference and/or body shapes (looking at Apparel Arts of the same decade, for example).

As someone who is 6'-2", wearing tight and especially wearing short makes me look like I had a growth spurt.  I agree about classic cut and proportions is best, however, for me sometimes I like to have some fun and wear something not classic (and have used it once to look like was flat broke and eccentric).


----------



## Adriel Rowley

This picture from the Tom Moore article deserves to be here, in part because of the fantastic staging and photography.









By the way seeing this Airedale terrier several times has me wondering if belongs to the Lauren family. Why this breed, are there not many other suitable estate dogs? Golden Retrievers are common in adverts.


----------



## Adriel Rowley

Fading Fast said:


> Well, thank you for noticing Eagle. Your friend, RM
> View attachment 47237


What a fantastically beautiful suit! 😍 A shame pinstripe now only comes black, charcoal, or navy. Went and found the picture, then saved it.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## FiscalDean

Adriel Rowley said:


> What a fantastically beautiful suit! 😍 A shame pinstripe now only comes black, charcoal, or navy. Went and found the picture, then saved it.


Pinstripes are available in additional colors but you have to work to seek them out ( or be patient) or go the MTM route. I have winter weight pinstripes in brown and summer weight pinstripes in olive and taupe.


----------



## Adriel Rowley

FiscalDean said:


> Pinstripes are available in additional colors but you have to work to seek them out ( or be patient) or go the MTM route. I have winter weight pinstripes in brown and summer weight pinstripes in olive and taupe.


Good to know, I had hoped a tailor would have different and thus why saved the photograph (not anytime soon, especially with this COVID). I have what I think is an all season brown pinstripe, never been too warm in Summer and with an overcoat, good to about 50 degrees F. Doubt ever have a Winter occasion demanding the formality of pinstripes. Since I run cold, go with another all season weight.

Mind me asking why so many pinstripe suits?

What color stripe does the taupe have?


----------



## FiscalDean

Adriel Rowley said:


> Good to know, I had hoped a tailor would have different and thus why saved the photograph (not anytime soon, especially with this COVID). I have what I think is an all season brown pinstripe, never been too warm in Summer and with an overcoat, good to about 50 degrees F. Doubt ever have a Winter occasion demanding the formality of pinstripes. Since I run cold, go with another all season weight.
> 
> Mind me asking why so many pinstripe suits?
> 
> What color stripe does the taupe have?


I like stripes and they're all a variation on the stripe motif. Being somewhat vertically challenged, I like to think they compensate for my rather short stature. I have pinstripes, pencil stripes, alternating stripes, bead stripes and chalk stripes in both navy / shades of blue and varying shades of gray. In brown, I have alternating stripes, chalk stripe and a multi-stripe. Please note, this collection is the culmination of 30+ years of buying "proper" business attire.

The taupe summer weight has a gray and ecru "fancy" stripe.


----------



## Fading Fast

FiscalDean said:


> I like stripes and they're all a variation on the stripe motif. Being somewhat vertically challenged, I like to think they compensate for my rather short stature. I have pinstripes, pencil stripes, alternating stripes, bead stripes and chalk stripes in both navy / shades of blue and varying shades of gray. In brown, I have alternating stripes, chalk stripe and a multi-stripe. Please note, this collection is the culmination of 30+ years of buying "proper" business attire.
> 
> The taupe summer weight has a gray and ecru "fancy" stripe.


Funny, being tall and too thin, I gave up on pinstripes for kinda the same reason - they made me look taller and thinner - somewhat pencil like.

I didn't notice that visual when I'd buy the suit, but I'd be wearing it some day, walk buy a large window that reflected my image and I'd notice it made me look too thin.

Chalk stripes were a bit less of a problem, but why fight it, I just gave up on pinstripes for me.


----------



## Adriel Rowley

FiscalDean said:


> I like stripes and they're all a variation on the stripe motif. Being somewhat vertically challenged, I like to think they compensate for my rather short stature. I have pinstripes, pencil stripes, alternating stripes, bead stripes and chalk stripes in both navy / shades of blue and varying shades of gray. In brown, I have alternating stripes, chalk stripe and a multi-stripe. Please note, this collection is the culmination of 30+ years of buying "proper" business attire.
> 
> The taupe summer weight has a gray and ecru "fancy" stripe.


Appreciate the clarification on length and reason for collecting these suits.

Have you watched any of Modest Man YouTube channel? Barack is of shorter stature and the focus of his channel. I watch it because I want to accentuate my height, I grew up feeling short, especially High School where maleStudents were 6'-0" and taller, I was only 5'-11" (until 27 1/2 and over Summer became 6'-2").

I will be 34 in December and hope I have at least 30 years to acquire a few nice suits. First, in a similar shade to Dad's navy blazer which has a hint of green as everyone needs a navy suit (Autumns look smashing in a greener shade of navy and now see it). Thinking three piece, waistcoat with self back (so can be worn sans jacket) and maybe lapels, and either patch or jetted pockets (I don't like excess decoration). Second, one inspired by Oma's favorite suit of Opa's, a navy chalk stripe (there is a picture of Opa in the casket wearing it and still trying to track down the photograph). Not sure if was a single or double, or the fabric, however, thinking a three season flannel. Third be a medium to medium-dark green, now seeing the pinstripe, guess most likely be that.

This taupe fancy stripe suit looks delightful. By fancy stripe, mean something like this?







Or this?


----------



## Adriel Rowley

Fading Fast said:


> Funny, being tall and too thin, I gave up on pinstripes for kinda the same reason - they made me look taller and thinner - somewhat pencil like.
> 
> I didn't notice that visual when I'd buy the suit, but I'd be wearing it some day, walk buy a large window that reflected my image and I'd notice it made me look too thin.
> 
> Chalk stripes were a bit less of a problem, but why fight it, I just gave up on pinstripes for me.


What really is too thin?

Aren't chalk stripes and pin stripes different?

What is your thought(s) on a rope stripe?


----------



## Adriel Rowley

Think this is the wrong tie and possibly the shirt?

Not sure why such a young fellow needs reading glasses, one of those odd props tossed in.


----------



## Oldsarge

That tie and that shirt do NOT go with that suit!


----------



## Fading Fast

Adriel Rowley said:


> What really is too thin?
> 
> Aren't chalk stripes and pin stripes different?
> 
> What is your thought(s) on a rope stripe?


"What really is too thin?" To be sure, this is subjective. For me, I'm already on the tall-thin side (6'1" 150 lbs and small boned), so items of clothing that accentuate that are not what I'm looking for.

Aesthetically, our society has norms and looking thinner pulls me further away from those norms.

That said, if somebody wants to look thinner than the norms or wider or taller or whatever, then they should go for it. Me, I'm just trying to put forward a reasonably pleasant appearance consistent with generally accepted norms.

Yes, chalk stripes are different and, as noted in my earlier post, they didn't have as much of a visual effect on how I looked as the pinstripes did, but still, they moved me in the wrong visual direction for my taste.

Rope stripes, IMO, are a variation on the same theme. I like them as they are visually interesting and less common, but again, for my body type, a rope-stripe suit will pull my visual in the wrong direction.


----------



## Fading Fast

I'm surprised no one seemed to like yesterday's duffle coat pic.

⇩ If the sport coat had more classic proportions, I'd like it as the outfit is a good example of jeans, a tie and a sport coat playing well together fabric, pattern and color-wise.


----------



## eagle2250

Adriel Rowley said:


> Think this is the wrong tie and possibly the shirt?
> 
> Not sure why such a young fellow needs reading glasses, one of those odd props tossed in.
> 
> View attachment 48183


While one might do so with a wet suit, we should never wear a suit tailored so closely that it appears almost as a second shin on our respective frame(s)! There is not a thing right about that photograph. Nuff said.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> I'm surprised no one seemed to like yesterday's duffle coat pic.
> 
> ⇩ If the sport coat had more classic proportions, I'd like it as the outfit is a good example of jeans, a tie and a sport coat playing well together fabric, pattern and color-wise.
> 
> View attachment 48190


Your RPL Ads must be having an effect on me. I've gone from wearing Chinos almost seven days a week to now I seem to be intermixing blue jeans with my beloved chinos two and sometimes three times a week! I sense a disturbance in the force, young Jedi! I could get taken to the woodshed by the Brotherhood for wearing denim(s) more frequently! :crazy:

PS: I must have overlooked yesterday's polo coat shot, but having corrected said oversight, i can tell you I love the coat, but hate the cap. LOL.


----------



## FiscalDean

Adriel Rowley said:


> Appreciate the clarification on length and reason for collecting these suits.
> 
> Have you watched any of Modest Man YouTube channel? Barack is of shorter stature and the focus of his channel. I watch it because I want to accentuate my height, I grew up feeling short, especially High School where maleStudents were 6'-0" and taller, I was only 5'-11" (until 27 1/2 and over Summer became 6'-2").
> 
> I will be 34 in December and hope I have at least 30 years to acquire a few nice suits. First, in a similar shade to Dad's navy blazer which has a hint of green as everyone needs a navy suit (Autumns look smashing in a greener shade of navy and now see it). Thinking three piece, waistcoat with self back (so can be worn sans jacket) and maybe lapels, and either patch or jetted pockets (I don't like excess decoration). Second, one inspired by Oma's favorite suit of Opa's, a navy chalk stripe (there is a picture of Opa in the casket wearing it and still trying to track down the photograph). Not sure if was a single or double, or the fabric, however, thinking a three season flannel. Third be a medium to medium-dark green, now seeing the pinstripe, guess most likely be that.
> 
> This taupe fancy stripe suit looks delightful. By fancy stripe, mean something like this?
> View attachment 48179
> Or this?
> View attachment 48182


There really isn't a strict definition of what constitutes a "fancy" stripe but I would say both pictured above would qualify.


----------



## drpeter

Adriel Rowley said:


> This forum doesn't seem to have a lot of folks under the age of 35, so if may, will chime in?
> 
> The only way I would think they know be if have and interest and/or have someone in their life to show them. My Dad, rest in peace, had no interest in learning, so didn't and never really had the need until married into a moneyed family. I somehow got the interest when 12 years old, I had a school presentation and decided I wanted to dress up for it. Opa got up earlier than usual, took me to the hall closet and had me pick out a tie, then back into the front hall, where he taught me to tie a tie. I thankfully was able to inherit that tie, many don't have the tie they first wore? Sadly, shortly after that he passed, got a cold from one of the Grandchildren, I still feel guilty. I also learn from thrift store purchases (for a few dollars one can try an outfit for a while), vintage pictures, few great role models, and this amazing forum.
> 
> By the way, thought this thread be so dull, started in because too sick to do anything else, and there is a wealth of knowledge, not just clothes, all sorts of bits of life, from motor vehicles to crossdressing girlfriends to dogs.


Just curious, @Adriel. Forgive me for this personal ( and I hope, innocuous) question: Your use of Opa and Oma made me wonder: Are you of Dutch descent, or simply a Dutch immigrant? I ask because I lived in Holland for a while back in the early 1990s, and picked up a smattering of Dutch words; And also because I myself am an immigrant to these shores!

Crossdressing girlfriends! I had one of those, a redhead. She dressed in a mannish way, had a crewcut and slender hips, and was forever borrowing my clothes because they fit her quite well, LOL. Once in a while I would get her to try on one of my suits, and she looked great in them. But she would not wear it to go out to dinner. Oh well.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> Your RPL Ads must be having an effect on me. I've gone from wearing Chinos almost seven days a week to now I seem to be intermixing blue jeans with my beloved chinos two and sometimes three times a week! I sense a disturbance in the force, young Jedi! I could get taken to the woodshed by the Brotherhood for wearing denim(s) more frequently! :crazy:
> 
> PS: I must have overlooked yesterday's polo coat shot, but having corrected said oversight, i can tell you I love the coat, but hate the cap. LOL.


Ah, my dear aquiline friend! I fear we are losing you to the fiendish RL machine, he has corrupted your inimitable, and may I say, very khaki sensibility. Now you're mixing jeans with the noble khaki, which generations have worn into battle with pride and elan, and which was invented in my old country, even if it was in the defence of colonial armies (after all, there was a sizable smattering of sepoys there). I fear for your soul. In hopes of drawing you back into the beige fold, here's an ode (or shall I say elegy?) to those generations, from _The Spires_ _of Oxford_ by the Irish poet Winifred Letts:

_God rest you, happy gentlemen,
Who laid your good lives down,
Who took the khaki and the gun
Instead of cap and gown.
God bring you to a fairer place
Than even Oxford town. _

The whole poem is here:

https://poets.org/poem/spires-oxford


----------



## Adriel Rowley

Fading Fast said:


> "What really is too thin?" To be sure, this is subjective. For me, I'm already on the tall-thin side (6'1" 150 lbs and small boned), so items of clothing that accentuate that are not what I'm looking for.


I struggle with weight image, taken a lot to accept I do (learned this from the forum). I never have thrown up, however, have possibly kept myself too thin. Being I disagree with BMI, thought best to ask my friends, which they are since helped. Looking at the charts, apparently for me, 165 to 180 pounds is the range, however, doesn't account for bulk, so me being at about 175 to 180 pounds isn't terrible at all. Instead, as someone said on this thread, accept Nature.



Fading Fast said:


> Aesthetically, our society has norms and looking thinner pulls me further away from those norms.


IMHO seems Society wants anorexicly thin females, yet, a lot of men are overweight (about 35 percent) or obese (about 40 percent). So, wouldn't it be better to be to judge weight by one's body than Society?



Fading Fast said:


> That said, if somebody wants to look thinner than the norms or wider or taller or whatever, then they should go for it. Me, I'm just trying to put forward a reasonably pleasant appearance consistent with generally accepted norms.


I am of the opinion one should use clothes to advantage and still have fun. Meaning, I would never have only stripes. Stripes for me is mostly having fun, like wearing wide lapels. 



Fading Fast said:


> Yes, chalk stripes are different and, as noted in my earlier post, they didn't have as much of a visual effect on how I looked as the pinstripes did, but still, they moved me in the wrong visual direction for my taste.


And thus why I asked about rope stripes.



Fading Fast said:


> Rope stripes, IMO, are a variation on the same theme. I like them as they are visually interesting and less common, but again, for my body type, a rope-stripe suit will pull my visual in the wrong direction.


I think only have seen rope stipe coats, think a suit be too much, almost like a prison uniform (since about a half inch wide).


----------



## Adriel Rowley

eagle2250 said:


> While one might do so with a wet suit, we should never wear a suit tailored so closely that it appears almost as a second shin on our respective frame(s)! There is not a thing right about that photograph. Nuff said.


I done see it as wet suit tight, at least the buttons aren't straining. 

Was the only Ralph Lauren Purple label pinstripe photographed by them I could find.

Now there is this image, taken for a forum.


----------



## Adriel Rowley

drpeter said:


> Just curious, @Adriel. Forgive me for this personal ( and I hope, innocuous) question: Your use of Opa and Oma made me wonder: Are you of Dutch descent, or simply a Dutch immigrant? I ask because I lived in Holland for a while back in the early 1990s, and picked up a smattering of Dutch words; And also because I myself am an immigrant to these shores!


I have no problem answering this, not like everyone has read my thread. It is inextricably a part of me, as Oma means so much more than Großmutter, she was meine Mutter as the one that raised me. Or to say another way, anyone can be a Mother, takes someone special to be a Mommy; she was my Mommy and she is dead. Dad is dead too, have no living parents, think why his passing was so very difficult. It was Dad who chose that his Parents be called Oma and Opa, thinking be easier on the children not having two Grandmas and Grandpas (the irony is that because they were hoity toity went by their first names). Yes I am a decedent, fifth generation Dutch. Plus fourth generation Irish (yet I am also Austrian, English, possibly French, German, Norman, most likely Pomeranian, Prussian, Scottish, possibly Spanish (Armada crashed off the coast of Ireland), possibly Swedish, Swiss, and Welch, in other words, a mutt).

I would love to learn German (much enjoy being a custodian and working on German vehicals) and especially Plautdietsch, however, some reason get the endings and sexes all mixed up in my head. I didn't inherit Dad's amazing linguistic intelligence (when he passed, only then was beyond amazed, knew Arabic, French, some Czech, German (the one he knew best and loved), some Greek, some Hebrew, some Hungarian, some Italian, some Polish, Russian, and for some reason, Swedish (two years).



drpeter said:


> Crossdressing girlfriends! I had one of those, a redhead. She dressed in a mannish way, had a crewcut and slender hips, and was forever borrowing my clothes because they fit her quite well, LOL. Once in a while I would get her to try on one of my suits, and she looked great in them. But she would not wear it to go out to dinner. Oh well.


That was my dry humor (I grew up watching "Keeping up Appearances" and "Are you Being Served?", plus Dad would rent "Faulty Towers" and I love "Monty Python"). It was in reference to all these girlfriends borrowing clothes, maybe not the best taste with Americans in the audience? I am not sure I would be comfortable borrowing my sartorial clothing, might try a pullover (since no buttons). Though, a lot of things I don't understand about women, like paining on eyebrows and shaving off all their hair except their heads (I do understand trimming though).


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> ...Crossdressing girlfriends! I had one of those, a redhead. She dressed in a mannish way, had a crewcut and slender hips, and was forever borrowing my clothes because they fit her quite well, LOL. Once in a while I would get her to try on one of my suits, and she looked great in them. But she would not wear it to go out to dinner. Oh well.


"Crossdressing girlfriend" Wait, what?

That is the sound of an unexpected window opening up into your life.


----------



## fred johnson

Fading Fast said:


> I'm surprised no one seemed to like yesterday's duffle coat pic.
> 
> View attachment 48190


I LOVED the picture of the duffel coat, in fact, I have one just like it! I also have the same coat, also from Ralph, in a sort of brown barley corn wool and wear them both in the winter months.


----------



## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> Ah, my dear aquiline friend! I fear we are losing you to the fiendish RL machine, he has corrupted your inimitable, and may I say, very khaki sensibility. Now you're mixing jeans with the noble khaki, which generations have worn into battle with pride and elan, and which was invented in my old country, even if it was in the defence of colonial armies (after all, there was a sizable smattering of sepoys there). I fear for your soul. In hopes of drawing you back into the beige fold, here's an ode (or shall I say elegy?) to those generations, from _The Spires_ _of Oxford_  by the Irish poet Winifred Letts:
> 
> _God rest you, happy gentlemen,
> Who laid your good lives down,
> Who took the khaki and the gun
> Instead of cap and gown.
> God bring you to a fairer place
> Than even Oxford town. _
> 
> The whole poem is here:
> 
> https://poets.org/poem/spires-oxford


...but, but I still wear the honorable khakis four to five days a week. I can be saved. I still can be saved, can I not? :icon_scratch: LOL.


----------



## eagle2250

Adriel Rowley said:


> I done see it as wet suit tight, at least the buttons aren't straining.
> 
> Was the only Ralph Lauren Purple label pinstripe photographed by them I could find.
> 
> Now there is this image, taken for a forum.


From what we can see, the fit of the suit above is more to my liking...a more conventional fit! The suit that I complained of is of an extreme continental fit..tight all over!


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> "Crossdressing girlfriend" Wait, what?
> 
> That is the sound of an unexpected window opening up into your life.


Ah well, @FF, a great teacher one said that enlightenment is like the wind. You cannot demand it, any more than you can demand the wind. But if you leave a window or five open, you may be fortunate and a breeze might sashay in...LOL.

All seriousness aside, what's wrong with a crossdressing girlfriend? Women have appropriated every article of male clothing and made it their own. No one ever does that old schoolboy taunt "Your mommy wears jockey shorts" anymore. They are all crossdressers, it is just the degree to which they are crossdressers that might be in question.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> ...but, but I still wear the honorable khakis four to five days a week. I can be saved. I still can be saved, can I not? :icon_scratch: LOL.


Yes, you are now saved, my friend. We'll accept four to five days. Join your brothers in the soteriology of AAAC. Or is it the demonology?


----------



## Adriel Rowley

eagle2250 said:


> From what we can see, the fit of the suit above is more to my liking...a more conventional fit! The suit that I complained of is of an extreme continental fit..tight all over!


There was other reasons I am sharing it.


----------



## Oldsarge

eagle2250 said:


> From what we can see, the fit of the suit above is more to my liking...a more conventional fit! The suit that I complained of is of an extreme continental fit..tight all over!


You can always move to the Left Coast. Jeans are the chinos of the West and we wear them all the time . . . until it gets too hot. Otherwise we work in them, play in them and more often than not die in them.


----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph fashion show.









We've probably seen this one ⇩ before, but since I don't remember it and since it fits in with the grey theme above, I'll put it up anyway.


----------



## eagle2250

Oldsarge said:


> You can always move to the Left Coast. Jeans are the chinos of the West and we wear them all the time . . . until it gets too hot. Otherwise we work in them, play in them and more often than not die in them.


Alas, SWMBO says I can move to the "Left Coast" only if the Grand kids move out there. Otherwise, I could find myself out there enjoying wearing my blue jeans, but having to hem the legs on my own trousers!" LOL. :icon_scratch_O


----------



## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> From a Ralph fashion show.
> View attachment 48220
> 
> 
> We've probably seen this one ⇩ before, but since I don't remember it and since it fits in with the grey theme above, I'll put it up anyway.
> View attachment 48221


Ralph looks better than the kid. His complexion is healthier and the white shirt with a more conventional collar is a much superior choice. Plus he's wearing real shoes!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 48252


Pure Ralph, but I must say, a baseball cap never goes with a suit and tie, no matter how casual the shirt!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Pure Ralph, but I must say, a baseball cap never goes with a suit and tie, no matter how casual the shirt!


I also wasn't in love with that shirt with that suit. Maybe the suit's pattern is subtle enough, but still, not that great a combo IMO.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Fading Fast said:


> V












Verified complete mess. Ouch, my eyes. But the ball cap's fine. Drop the _ball_, it's just a cap. Everybody's doing it. Climb into the '20s.

If you're wearing a polo coat completely unbuttoned over a completely unbuttoned suit, then there's no need to wear a polo coat or any coat at all.


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 48254
> 
> 
> Verified complete mess. Ouch, my eyes. But the ball cap's fine. Drop the _ball_, it's just a cap. Everybody's doing it. Climb into the '20s.
> 
> If you're wearing a polo coat completely unbuttoned over a completely unbuttoned suit, then there's no need to wear a polo coat or any coat at all.


Aren't those crossed hockey sticks in the logo on the cap? Or maybe they are lacrosse sticks?


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 48252


This lad has no taste whatsoever. I'm sorry, but I can't find a single redeeming thing about this assemblage of clothes. If this is what RL is selling, I, for one, want no part of it!

Has no one told the man that understatement is the soul of elegance? In the same vein, Polonius said that brevity is the soul of wit, (although he himself was garrulous). But, the Bard aside, one can clearly make a much better impact with one or two carefully chosen items rather than having the entire contents of the duffel bag thrown over one's body.

Perhaps it is all a sartorial symbol of the coarsening of our culture that has been taking place over recent decades. Good taste in many areas seems to be replaced by something alarming, something more like noise. And this confection is indeed visual noise.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> This lad has no taste whatsoever. I'm sorry, but I can't find a single redeeming thing about this assemblage of clothes. If this is what RL is selling, I, for one, want no part of it!
> 
> Has no one told the man that understatement is the soul of elegance? In the same vein, Polonius said that brevity is the soul of wit, (although he himself was garrulous). But, the Bard aside, one can clearly make a much better impact with one or two carefully chosen items rather than having the entire contents of the duffel bag thrown over one's body.
> 
> Perhaps it is all a sartorial symbol of the coarsening of our culture that has been taking place over recent decades. Good taste in many areas seems to be replaced by something alarming, something more like noise. And this confection is indeed visual noise.


⇧ You'll get no argument from me. I like almost every item individually, but most don't work together. The braces seem to have come in from a completely different outfit.

⇩ So, let's go in a different direction today, from 1991:


----------



## Peak and Pine

^
I squinted, I read the copy, but it said nothing about game show host hair, though it did say the placket sweater on the left is pure lambs wool (which the lamb probably didn't mind), and the jacket at center is pure lamb skin (that I imagine it minded.) That was one busy lamb. Ralph had it fill out an innards donation card, shoved the remains in that Plymouth woodie and sped off to Kroger where what's left of lamb'sy is resting comfortably at 38° in the reach-in cooler on aisle 6.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ You'll get no argument from me. I like almost every item individually, but most don't work together. The braces seem to have come in from a completely different outfit.
> 
> ⇩ So, let's go in a different direction today, from 1991:
> View attachment 48299
> View attachment 48300


I very much like the oatmeal hued Turtle neck paired with Chinos and worn under that incredible lambskin jacket/windbreaker. Back in the late 1980's and early 1990's I often wore oatmeal hued shetland sweaters under my old USAF issued flight jacket, paired with Chinos. It wasn't PRL, but the rig did look good!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I very much like the oatmeal hued Turtle neck paired with Chinos and worn under that incredible lambskin jacket/windbreaker. Back in the late 1980's and early 1990's I often wore oatmeal hued shetland sweaters under my old USAF issued flight jacket, paired with Chinos. It wasn't PRL, but the rig did look good!


I agree, I like the look. I have a "winter white" turtleneck that l wear with stone-colored chinos, but under a dove grey sport coat as I don't have a flight jacket.

James Dean wears a similar color combo in "East of Eden." The first photo, being color, kinda confirms the colors, while the second photo, even in B&W, gives a better overall look of the outfit.
















And even though it's clearly a B&W pic, this iconic shot might be Dean in a similar color combo as well:


----------



## Fading Fast

Ralph Fashion Show look:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Ralph Fashion Show look:
> View attachment 48325


A good look, for sure, but for "Runway" appearances I really wish they would remove the junk from the jacket pockets.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> A good look, for sure, but for "Runway" appearances I really wish they would remove the junk from the jacket pockets.


I saw that and agree, but then thought (after enlarging the pic), is that just the way the sport coat's "bellows" pocket sits?

If so, I'd pass on the sport coat as the bellows pocket doesn't really work, IMO, on that specific coat.

I do like the classic camel-and-grey color combo of the outfit though.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I saw that and agree, but then thought (after enlarging the pic), is that just the way the sport coat's "bellows" pocket sits?
> 
> If so, I'd pass on the sport coat as the bellows pocket doesn't really work, IMO, on that specific coat.
> 
> I do like the classic camel-and-grey color combo of the outfit though.


I agree about the bellows pocket. IMHO, those pockets work for cotton jackets -- military style jackets, often with similar breast pockets -- and also for tweed jackets, like a Norfolk, say. In this camel hair model, it seems like an afterthought -- someone took a regular sports jacket and decided to change the lower pockets to bellows style.

I also agree strongly with your colour combo opinion, @Fading Fast. The brown/tan/bege combo with a mid-grey or Oxford grey is beautiful. I often pair a chestnut or russet brown corduroy jacket, medium wales, with grey flannels and a tattersall shirt, and the effect is very nice. Likewise a brown/olive herringbone Harris tweed with grey flannels is also excellent. And the reverse can be great too: Grey in the jacket and brown in the trousers.


----------



## Peak and Pine

eagle2250 said:


> I really wish they would remove the junk from the jacket pockets.





Fading Fast said:


> ... I'd pass on the sport coat as the bellows pocket doesn't really work, IMO, on that specific coat.





drpeter said:


> I agree about the bellows pocket...seems like an afterthought -- someone took a regular sports jacket and decided to change the lower pockets to bellows style.


You three stay in the car while I go in and get me one of those. Without those pockets and the leather trim at the cuffs you got what everybody's already got, a stock camel hair collecting dust beause you can't figure out how or where to wear it in 2020..

Assuming one's got a thinish line like the kid in the coat, I do, Fast says he does, Eagle's working on it and I don't know about the doctor, then this works. The outline of the coat with its thick texture, the swoop downward, the bell buoy flare at the bottom made by two perfectly placed gusset pockets, all that combined with the choice of under clothes and shoes seems to align with the stars in this particular outfit. I can picture all ages in it, except for the extremely young who might spill chocolate milk all over it.


----------



## Old Road Dog

I agree with Peak and Pine that the ensemble is not only classic, but classic Ralph Lauren. Unfortunately none of us could buy this now because they were made on patterns from the early in the last decade, at the lastest. Whether this expression in clothing returns or if it could be special ordered depends on the direction the Polo takes to survive in this unprecedented retail environment.

The bellows patch pocket was an early hallmark for Ralph in tailored clothing; utilized in sportcoats and country suits. It had viability in the heady days for Polo during the 70's and 80's.The reverse-pleated open patch pocket was also popular during that time.


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> You three stay in the car while I go in and get me one of those. Without those pockets and the leather trim at the cuffs you got what everybody's already got, a stock camel hair collecting dust beause you can't figure out how or where to wear it in 2020..
> 
> Assuming one's got a thinish line like the kid in the coat, I do, Fast says he does, Eagle's working on it and I don't know about the doctor, then this works. The outline of the coat with its thick texture, the swoop downward, the bell buoy flare at the bottom made by two perfectly placed gusset pockets, all that combined with the choice of under clothes and shoes seems to align with the stars in this particular outfit. I can picture all ages in it, except for the extremely young who might spill chocolate milk all over it.


To each his own, I suppose. But I have a couple of camel hair jackets that I wear in the Fall, they're fully trad in construction -- three-button front, two-button sleeves, undarted, hook vent, and regular pockets (one has three patch pockets, no bellows/gusset). I also have several jackets that I would not call sport coats -- these are military style and they have bellows pockets and even epaulettes -- one's a beautiful olive green Orvis with a belt. It's not that I don't like bellows pockets, they are really useful to carry things, and when I play native gun-bearer to my hunter friend Woody, I can even carry shotgun shells in them. But on a sport coat? No, thank you. However, do enjoy your new gusset-pocketed RL sport coat, @Peak and Pine.


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> You three stay in the car while I go in and get me one of those. Without those pockets and the leather trim at the cuffs you got what everybody's already got, a stock camel hair collecting dust beause you can't figure out how or where to wear it in 2020..
> 
> Assuming one's got a thinish line like the kid in the coat, I do, Fast says he does, Eagle's working on it and I don't know about the doctor, then this works. The outline of the coat with its thick texture, the swoop downward, the bell buoy flare at the bottom made by two perfectly placed gusset pockets, all that combined with the choice of under clothes and shoes seems to align with the stars in this particular outfit. I can picture all ages in it, except for the extremely young who might spill chocolate milk all over it.


Oh, I forgot. I have long had a fairly slender figure, it's nothing that I do, just genetics. I ride my bike a lot, walk often, and I work out a bit at the gym. I take after my late father and he was the same way. I eat everything, and while my meals are balanced, I enjoy meats, veggies and carbs.

I have gone through short spells when my weight increased by a few pounds, especially when I started using those weight machines in the gym. But I have also recently lost a fair amount of weight because three years ago, I was diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes, and so cut carbs and sugar quite a bit and halved all my food intake. If you eat less, you lose weight, LOL.


----------



## Oldsarge

Probably not real Ralph but slightly Ralph-ish?


----------



## Peak and Pine

^

But for the guy looking like Charles Manson, an interesting outfit. Coat is reminiscent of garagemen's coats when I was a kid.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Old Road Dog

Looks like late-80's Ralph -inspired (but not Ralph). Not sure that is even a fashion shot. More of a post-grad preppy vibe. Chris Cuomo on a Saturday afternoon.


----------



## Fading Fast

Old Road Dog said:


> Looks like late-80's Ralph -inspired (but not Ralph). Not sure that is even a fashion shot. More of a post-grad preppy vibe. Chris Cuomo on a Saturday afternoon.


The Pinterest caption said Ralph, but you could be right as that's far from definitive. I thought late '80s / early '90s owing to his slicked-back hair and the "bigness" of the clothes.


----------



## Fading Fast

A couple more Ralph fashion-show runway shots. Caption says 1st one is 2018, 2nd; 2019


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> A couple more Ralph fashion-show runway shots. Caption says 1st one is 2018, 2nd; 2019
> View attachment 48428
> 
> View attachment 48429


From a local perspective, the rig in the top photo is the way to go, but I must note some degree of reservation regarding the sleeve length on that jacket and the gentleman's tie is not well knotted. He needs to take his time and do it right. The fellow in the bottom photo wears that double breasted sport jacket rather well, but again, the jacket sleeves seem more than just a bit too short and that monochrome wardrobing effort is just not to my taste!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> From a local perspective, the rig in the top photo is the way to go, but I must note some degree of reservation regarding the sleeve length on that jacket and the gentleman's tie is not well knotted. He needs to take his time and do it right. The fellow in the bottom photo wears that double breasted sport jacket rather well, but again, the jacket sleeves seem more than just a bit too short and that monochrome wardrobing effort is just not to my taste!


I'm a big fan of a white-and-dove-grey combo. While I agree with you about the sleeve length, that is how many designers show sleeves today and, at least in NYC, how I see many young men wear their suit jackets and sport coats. Don't love it, but it is what it is as the saying goes.

I thought the inverted-pleat side pocket worked as a nice detail on the top sport coat versus the gusseted pocket on the camel hair sport coat from a few days ago as the inverted pleat didn't impact the entire line of the coat (whereas, the gusseted one seemed out of place, IMO, with the rest of the camel hair jacket's silhouette and line).

I also noticed that the trousers in the lower outfit had forward pleats and a more traditional rise resulting in the pants appearing to sit near the model's natural waist. It will be interesting to see if pleats and higher rise make it past the runway as some "new" (versus what's in fashion at the moment) ideas never make it off the runway.


----------



## Fading Fast

⇩ Probably a dupe, but just in case we haven't seen it before:


----------



## fred johnson

Ralph in a sport jacket or suit jacket always make me think that he left the hanger in the jacket before putting it on.


----------



## Fading Fast

fred johnson said:


> Ralph in a sport jacket or suit jacket always make me think that he left the hanger in the jacket before putting it on.


I agree. I think he'd look better with a much-less-padded shoulder as his efforts to broader his shoulders only draw attention to them IMO.


----------



## Old Road Dog

You are right that Ralph has a coat model that is unique to him. It saw some daylight as the "Prince" model in the 80's, but it clearly has a broader shoulder and a bit of rope expression at the sleeve head. Also the lapel is marginally wider and are most often in a floor-level peak lapel and most commonly six-on-two to button. 

I admire him for wearing clothing that seems timeless and certainly not anything like what is made for public consumption. In fact some of his suits probably have some mileage on them, adding credibility to the terms "timeless and classic".


----------



## Oldsarge

That picture of him in the DB blazer so struck me that I had one made and got the slacks and turtleneck to go with it. Now if only the weather would cool enough that I could wear it again.


----------



## Fading Fast

Since we all seemed to enjoy it, a few more of Ralph and those padded and roped shoulders:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Since we all seemed to enjoy it, a few more of Ralph and those padded and roped shoulders:
> View attachment 48502
> View attachment 48503


You have to give it to him, the Man seemingly had it all...body, looks, wardrobe, charm and the list seems never ending, but I gotta tell ya, those exaggerated shoulders do give this conservative Trad pause!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> You have to give it to him, the Man seemingly had it all...body, looks, wardrobe, charm and the list seems never ending, but I gotta tell ya, those exaggerated shoulders do give this conservative Trad pause!


Ralph has made a good life for himself and I applaud him greatly for that. From my MTM experiences at the flagship in NYC, I met a few people who know him and they all seem to truly like and respect the guy.

I'd love to see him in a suit or sport coat with less-padded shoulders as, while he'd clearly have a narrower "V" to his silhouette, I think he'd probably look better as the fit would be more natural to his body. I, too, have narrow shoulders, but when I've tried on heavily-padded suits or sport coats, the look, like Ralph's, is too exaggerated for my taste.

But hey, he's the guy who built a billion-dollar empire selling clothes to guys like me, so who am I to say?


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> That picture of him in the DB blazer so struck me that I had one made and got the slacks and turtleneck to go with it. Now if only the weather would cool enough that I could wear it again.


This is just a personal preference, but I really like the button stance on Navy uniform DB blazers (vertical colums of buttons on either side) rather than the arrangement on civvy DB blazers with the buttons slanted away towards the shoulders, each sideways pair of buttons farther apart as you move up. Here's an image:


----------



## Oldsarge

Master Chief Petty Officer. The Boat God! 😁 

I held the equivalent rank in the Army. Even though I avoided command for years, when I finally took a 1SG slot I discovered what a mistake that was. E-8's rule.


----------



## rl1856

The Navy DB was likely made by Brooks Brothers. In the context of this thread, I suppose it brings everything full circle.


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> Master Chief Petty Officer. The Boat God! 😁
> 
> I held the equivalent rank in the Army. Even though I avoided command for years, when I finally took a 1SG slot I discovered what a mistake that was. E-8's rule.


You like the Master CPO, I take it. Brilliant smile and probably tough as nails.

Wasn't it the famed British military historian John Keegan who wrote _The Mask of Command_? I suppose command has its own special set of problems and complexities.

Not being familiar with the intricacies of the American military, you'll have to explain to me what the 1 SG slot and E-8s are. I imagine they are rank or pay grade classifications and probably correspond to similar categories in the systems used by other navies in the world -- after all, the basic system of ranks are very similar. My ranks in the paramilitary unit I served in went from lance corporal and corporal to sergeant, sergeant-major, quartermaster sergeant-major (QSM), regimental sergeant-major (RSM) and finally Under Officer ( one had a ceremonial red sash at parades, plus a lot of responsibility for your men at all times!). They corresponded roughly to the regular Army ranks, but there also were differences.

Here is the one used by the Indian Navy. Notice that they have a comparison to NATO ranks, and so, may connect with similar ranks in the US Navy. There are two Master CPO ranks, first class and second class, plus CPO and PO ranks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_ranks_and_insignia_of_India


----------



## Oldsarge

An American 1SG is a Euro E-8 or in British terms a company Sergeant Major while a MSG is a Warrant Officer 2.


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> An American 1SG is a Euro E-8 or in British terms a company Sergeant Major while a MSG is a Warrant Officer 2.


Thanks, Sarge. Now I see the connections.


----------



## drpeter

Here's how the Lord created CPOs:

https://www.goatlocker.org/resources/cpo/anecdotes/createCPO.htm


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## xcubbies

Thoughts and prayers.


----------



## Oldsarge

It's interesting how a born and bred New Yorker can have such a fascination with huge British estates and the range land of the West.


----------



## Fading Fast

Oldsarge said:


> It's interesting how a born and bred New Yorker can have such a fascination with huge British estates and the range land of the West.


As a kid born in a reasonably crowded NJ town who's lived only there, NYC and Boston and has never been to England or the American West (Phoenix AZ and CA, but not the "open" West - or what's left of it), I get it.

It's the lore and romanticism of something foreign to us, but that is bound up in wonderful traditions and narratives.

It's all a fantasy, like when, I'm guessing, someone born in the West sees the 1930s movies of Cafe Society in NYC: they romanticize the rooftop nightclubs, people dressed in tuxedos going to restaurants while dancing to Glen Miller's thirty-piece band, etc. What you don't have is very appealing when you only see the idealized version.


----------



## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> As a kid born in a reasonably crowded NJ town who's lived only there, NYC and Boston and has never been to England or the American West (Phoenix AZ and CA, but not the "open" West - or what's left of it), I get it.
> 
> It's the lore and romanticism of something foreign to us, but that is bound up in wonderful traditions and narratives.
> 
> It's all a fantasy, like when, I'm guessing, someone born in the West sees the 1930s movies of Cafe Society in NYC: they romanticize the rooftop nightclubs, people dressed in tuxedos going to restaurants while dancing to Glen Miller's thirty-piece band, etc. What you don't have is very appealing when you only see the idealized version.


Exactly ! And I know whereof you speak because while I don't normally care for big cities, just put me on the streets of, oh Heidelberg Germany for instance, and I'm like ready to start singing "My kind of town" and swinging off lampposts.


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> Exactly ! And I know whereof you speak because while I don't normally care for big cities, just put me on the streets of, oh Heidelberg Germany for instance, and I'm like ready to start singing "My kind of town" and swinging off lampposts.


Sarge, if you're going to be swinging off lampposts, make that "Singin' in the Rain"!

I agree with your sentiments. I loved travel and saw many countries and continents in my youth and adulthood, was raised in two different cultures and now live in a third. Travel is the best education there is, and you develop a general humanity and a feeling of what is to share that humanity with all sorts of people. I consider myself very fortunate, coming from very middle-class origins, to have got so far.


----------



## Fading Fast

I like everything he has on individually, but there are way too many different stripes in that outfit. Cut it back to two that play well together and all would be good. Nice belt.


----------



## Oldsarge

Agreed. Personally, I'd lose the striped pants--and untuck the sweater.


----------



## Peak and Pine

That's Ellen, right?

Please skip the next photo because you will not be able to unsee it..










So what are we left with here? This maybe, below, tho the jury, the 12 tiny people I keep in my pocket, is still out on the metal buttons on a polo-ish coat..


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 48614


While I cannot recall ever wearing a polo coat over blue jeans, I do like that picture. Should I ever find myself back in a colder climate, maybe I will! Thanks for sharing that.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> While I cannot recall ever wearing a polo coat over blue jeans, I do like that picture. Should I ever find myself back in a colder climate, maybe I will! Thanks for sharing that.


I've never owned a Polo coat - a gaping hole in my Trad canon - but I, too, love the look of it with jeans.

Like the Tweed sport coat with jeans, the Polo coat is an Ivy item that looks like it was designed from the start for wear with jeans.

If traditional overcoats were still the norm, I'd put a Polo coat on my to-buy list. Unfortunately, though, each winter, I find I'm wearing the traditional overcoats that I do own less and less, so I can't even fake justify the expense to myself.


----------



## Old Road Dog

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 48587
> 
> 
> That's Ellen, right?
> 
> Please skip the next photo because you will not be able to unsee it..
> 
> View attachment 48588
> 
> 
> So what are we left with here? This maybe, below, tho the jury, the 12 tiny people I keep in my pocket, is still out on the metal buttons on a polo-ish coat..
> 
> View attachment 48589


Peak and Pine: 
Much to my regret I let my eyes stray to the photo of RL undoubtedly taking a post-fashion show bow.
Please tell me it is a prank of some deranged ex-Polo employee with a grudge and Photo Shop skills.


----------



## Fading Fast

Based on the skull and crossbones on the jeans, I'm guessing this is from the Rugby line from ten or so years ago.

Also, something we talk about often, this is option number, what, three to show a belt when wearing a sweater? This looks better than option number two: tucking the sweater into the pants, but it still looks kinda forced.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

It looks forced to me as well. It is the sort of effect an 17 year old me might have obtained by being in too much of a hurry to tuck a shirt properly. And no socks with coat and tie brings back memories of sneaking out of the locker room, exhausted after a long day, and getting a demerit for the dress code infraction. I often go sockless, but despite Ralph's urging I can't do it with a coat and tie.


----------



## drpeter

TKI67 said:


> It looks forced to me as well. It is the sort of effect an 17 year old me might have obtained by being in too much of a hurry to tuck a shirt properly. And no socks with coat and tie brings back memories of sneaking out of the locker room, exhausted after a long day, and getting a demerit for the dress code infraction. I often go sockless, but despite Ralph's urging I can't do it with a coat and tie.


I'm with you: I have a very hard time even considering going sockless when wearing a coat and tie. Or even when wearing a sweater and shirt. See, it is a logical contradiction: If you need the warmth or protection from cold provided by the added layer of a sportcoat, blazer or sweater over your shirt, why on earth wouldn't you wear a pair of socks to protect your feet from said cold? Besides, I am fine with sandals and no socks (although I regularly wear socks with sandals in mildly cold weather), but shoes without socks _hurt_ my poor feet!

I suppose we all have our peccadilloes.


----------



## Oldsarge

I've tried the boat shoe without sock thing and don't like it. Sandals? Yes. Slippers? Sure. Regular shoes? Uh-uh.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> I've tried the boat shoe without sock thing and don't like it. Sandals? Yes. Slippers? Sure. Regular shoes? Uh-uh.


One of these days, one of the fashion moguls will try the winning combination of a sport coat and tie with flip-flops. One will really be ready for the beach that way.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 48663


Are we looking at a young man wearing a sweatsuit with a hoodie, worn over an OCBD with a neck tie, worn under a PRL fisherman's sweater, which is worn under that incredible top coat? Why would someone do that to themselves? :crazy:


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> Are we looking at a young man wearing a sweatsuit with a hoodie, worn over an OCBD with a neck tie, worn under a PRL fisherman's sweater, which is worn under that incredible top coat? Why would someone do that to themselves? :crazy:


Needs a mouton cap and a wooden squash racquet.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Are we looking at a young man wearing a sweatsuit with a hoodie, worn over an OCBD with a neck tie, worn under a PRL fisherman's sweater, which is worn under that incredible top coat? Why would someone do that to themselves? :crazy:


My best guess is it's just some crazy "fashion" thing that Ralph's team put out there. I doubt the expectation was that someone would wear that outfit.


----------



## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> My best guess is it's just some crazy "fashion" thing that Ralph's team put out there. I doubt the expectation was that someone would wear that outfit.


Oh, I hope not!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 48673


But I must ask, did he earn or did he buy that buckle? "Mama's, don't let your babies grow up to be cowboys!" Paraphrasing Conway Twitty (and I'm sure this isn't what he was intending, but), "partner there's a Tiger in those tight fittin jeans!" Bye golly, there seems to be much wisdom in them thar lyrics. LOL.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> But I must ask, did he earn or did he buy that buckle? "Mama's, don't let your babies grow up to be cowboys!" Paraphrasing Conway Twitty (and I'm sure this isn't what he was intending, but), "partner there's a Tiger in those tight fittin jeans!" Bye golly, there seems to be much wisdom in them thar lyrics. LOL.


Well, one might contend that he has a lot of experience riding bull.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> But I must ask, did he earn or did he buy that buckle? "Mama's, don't let your babies grow up to be cowboys!" Paraphrasing Conway Twitty (and I'm sure this isn't what he was intending, but), "partner there's a Tiger in those tight fittin jeans!" Bye golly, there seems to be much wisdom in them thar lyrics. LOL.


Or could it be "Mama, don't let your babies be wide-lapel wearers" ?


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> Are we looking at a young man wearing a sweatsuit with a hoodie, worn over an OCBD with a neck tie, worn under a PRL fisherman's sweater, which is worn under that incredible top coat? Why would someone do that to themselves? :crazy:


I'm beginning to suspect that Lauren and his lads were just putting these adverts out to rile up the opposition and support their own base of fans. Each assemblage of random clothes and styles appears to be more outlandish than the last. Or could it be that these images are put out secretly by a camp of opponents from another fashion house pretending to be Lauren camp-followers? Maybe it's a fashion disinformation campaign, LOL. After all, disinformation is an old strategy for persuasion in government and politics in many parts of the world. And it works.


----------



## Old Road Dog

I have to give Ralph a nod for wearing the now-vintage clothing, particularly that 80's era sport coat. If I was to do that I would look like just another homeless person. He of course is touting the timelessness of his fashion. 
There is an Oprah interview of RL at his ranch in which he reveals that the flannel shirt he is wearing is from K Mart.


----------



## Fading Fast

Lose the Polo shield and I like it (wish the collar bar was tighter).


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 48682
> 
> Lose the Polo shield and I like it (wish the collar bar was tighter).


I too like the shawl collared cardigan sweater, but in addition to losing the Polo shield, I would size up sufficiently to provide the wearer with a bit of wiggle room. I would also lose the glasses and replace with Tortoise shell frames. Back in the day thank gawd mrs Eagle wore a pair of those "birth control frames" back in high school. Otherwise, she might have been taken off the market before I had a chance to be smitten! LOL.


----------



## LewisDias

will use this topic to ask if anyone knows if this is a true or false rugby polo RL?
for the logo I have my doubts, it seems not consistent


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 48682
> 
> Lose the Polo shield and I like it (wish the collar bar was tighter).


I agree. It's a nice colour, but that shield ruins it.


----------



## drpeter

LewisDias said:


> will use this topic to ask if anyone knows if this is a true or false rugby polo RL?
> for the logo I have my doubts, it seems not consistent
> View attachment 48686
> View attachment 48687
> View attachment 48688


Can you kindly tell us where this shirt was made? I'm asking because I think some of the Ralph Lauren experts here might know the major countries of manufacture, and if it is not one of those, that would mean its authenticity might be questionable.


----------



## Fading Fast

Feels like it might be a dupe. Also, @eagle2250 note the chain to the breast pocket, I'm thinking pocket watch.


----------



## Old Road Dog

The rugby shirt looks authentic to me, but more like what the Polo Outlet stores sell. Country of origin is a non-issue with sportswear today. Labels might as well say "Made somewhere on Earth", although "Made in USA" would be extremely rare at Polo. Some neckwear might be made in NY.


----------



## Fading Fast

Old Road Dog said:


> ... Labels might as well say "Made somewhere on Earth"...


:laughing:


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 48755


The corduroy suit has some real appeal to it. I could see myself wearing that during other time and in other, more climatically appropriate places! The Tweed jacket is also nice, but I would never pair it with blue jeans. To each his/her own, I guess.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> The corduroy suit has some real appeal to it. I could see myself wearing that during other time and in other, more climatically appropriate places! The Tweed jacket is also nice, but I would never pair it with blue jeans. To each his/her own, I guess.


I've never owned a corduroy suit, but many years ago owned a corduroy sport coat. If I stumbled upon "the right" corduroy sport coat today, I'd be tempted half as I think I could find enough use for it and half for nostalgia. In my life, in our modern times, I'd have all but no opportunity to wear a corduroy suit though.

P.S., A knit tie is perfect for a corduroy suit or sport coat.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I've never owned a corduroy suit, but many years ago owned a corduroy sport coat. If I stumbled upon "the right" corduroy sport coat today, I'd be tempted half as I think I could find enough use for it and half for nostalgia. In my life, in our modern times, I'd have all but no opportunity to wear a corduroy suit though.
> 
> P.S., A knit tie is perfect for a corduroy suit or sport coat.


Never had a corduroy suit myself, but I have a few medium-wale corduroy sport coats, and I wear them with checked or plain shirts and khakis, usually without a tie. But I agree, a knit tie would be perfect with a corduroy jacket. A combination that looks very elegant, IMHO, is a chestnut brown corduroy sport coat with grey flannels and a solid white or blue OCBD.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

I'd lose the PS and either get a straight-point collar shirt that works with a collar pin or lose the collar pin and button down the collar as it was designed. Good use of a Fair Isle and I like the combo in general with the exceptions noted.


----------



## FiscalDean

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 48822
> 
> I'd lose the PS and either get a straight-point collar shirt that works with a collar pin or lose the collar pin and button down the collar as it was designed. Good use of a Fair Isle and I like the combo in general with the exceptions noted.


+1


----------



## Old Road Dog

One of their stylists loves to pin the button-down collars. The store mannequins sometimes show this look also. Can you imagine how many times that day you would be reminded that "Your collar's not buttoned!"


----------



## Fading Fast

Old Road Dog said:


> One of their stylists loves to pin the button-down collars. The store mannequins sometimes show this look also. Can you imagine how many times that day you would be reminded that "Your collar's not buttoned!"


I've noticed, too, that it's a very popular Ralph move. Some moves I get are done for sales, but I doubt they are doing it to sell more collar pins, so it must be, as you note, something someone on the design team loves.

One of the things I've learned at AAAC is to keep an open mind as other members have taught me a lot of reasons for doing things that, initially, I thought were odd, but pinning a button-down collar always feels silly and forced to me.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 48847


I'm not a big fan of burnt orange trousers, but in this instance they work reasonably well with that rig


----------



## Old Road Dog

Again, The Coat. When I had one of those in the 80's, it was about 10" longer and sans breast pocket flap. Actually I recall that someone here on the sales forum bought it.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 48847


Better than average, showing a little restraint and balance. Some Trad elements, an overall Trad-ish impression, but, to a Trad, not Trad. A good example of how much of the rest of the world likely thinks of Trad. It is hard to tell, but are those trousers cuffed or just deeply and artlessly hemmed? It looks from the way they lie as if it is the latter.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> Better than average, showing a little restraint and balance. Some Trad elements, an overall Trad-ish impression, but, to a Trad, not Trad. A good example of how much of the rest of the world likely thinks of Trad. It is hard to tell, but are those trousers cuffed or just deeply and artlessly hemmed? It looks from the way they lie as if it is the latter.


It looks like the latter to me too. And, yes, the Trad details we think about don't hit the radar of most people in 2020 - "it looks like what people wore in the '50s, so it's 'Trad'" to most people. And there's nothing wrong with that - we are hard-core, most people just surf this stuff (like we surf things that others are passionate about).


----------



## Old Road Dog

Those trousers bottoms are sewn-through to make the hem. Standard issue on rough wear pants from almost any maker today that sells them in waist and inseam sizing. The orange ones could be 3/4" longer, but so goes pre-finished inseams. Clothing for modeling use is typically in a tight range of sample sizes: 40 R, medium tops, 32 waist. Models portfolios usually list their exact sizes, but alterations are not common for a photo shoot.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## FiscalDean

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 48866


very nice, but I'd prefer flat front pants.


----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

As a vintage menswear fan, I am enjoying the return of smart cut sharp pleats. 

Voluminous examples can stay in the 80s. 

My local consignment shop still won’t take pleats on consignment, so when that changes, I will know that the glacier of anti pleat thought has broken off and slid into the sea.

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## Peak and Pine

FiscalDean said:


> very nice, but I'd prefer flat front pants.


Then shy from Polo suits because I've never seen one without forward pleats. (A feature I find attractive. Tastes differ.)

****************

A photo shoot involves a number of individuals from make-up to dresser. But apparently it doesn't always involve a person who can make the model not look like a model, and one who just garbed up for the shoot. Example, from Fading Fast's post today...










Junior there just hung up his graphic tee and crawled into that, being careful to pull the shirt cuffs down to cover the tattoo sleeve. Hey kid, if you wanna be in _It's a Wonderful Life, _you shoulda been born in the '30s. Take off those sample duds, your skateboard's over parked.

We talk often here of age appropriate clothing, usually referencing the older guy. But it also works in reverse. The kid above looks dressed for a high school play where the range of actors available runs the gamut from 15 to 18. Now maybe he could get away with that if he was say, smoking a joint. But he stands there in that stilted Would You Care for a Sherry way. Blagh. Post future pics like this in the Goonies Get Dressed Up thread.


----------



## Oldsarge

Or How to be the CEO's Minion Thread . . .


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

A smorgasbord of clothes? 

It looks as though these lads have just bashed in from another spacious room containing many tables laden with vast helpings of ties, socks, shirts, sweaters, trousers, shoes, assorted jackets and even a watchcap or two, all from RL's collections. And now, they seem to say, here we are! And we are all perched on the same large sofa that Uncle Ralph has provided for us so thoughtfully.


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Old Road Dog

Like the glass and stirrer...and the drink for that matter. "Yes, thanks. I'll have another."


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 48953


Far too many patterns and textures for my taste. The jacket looks as though it was made up from a bolt of blanket cloth -- you know, the kind that one spreads over one's knees and lap in winter in an open horse-drawn carriage, way back when.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Far too many patterns and textures for my taste. The jacket looks as though it was made up from a bolt of blanket cloth -- you know, the kind that one spreads over one's knees and lap in winter in an open horse-drawn carriage, way back when.


It's not a jacket I'd buy, but I think it would work if he (1) lost the pocket square and (2) used the collar as designed and just buttoned it down (or chose a straight-point collar shirt if he wanted to use a collar bar or pin, can't tell which it is). I would also have probably gone with a Ancient Madder or similarly heavy-texture tie.

Again, I'll admit, it's not my type of combo, but for a bold effort, I thought, notwithstanding a few misses, a good result.


----------



## Oldsarge

drpeter said:


> Far too many patterns and textures for my taste. The jacket looks as though it was made up from a bolt of blanket cloth -- you know, the kind that one spreads over one's knees and lap in winter in an open horse-drawn carriage, way back when.


Fond of color as I am, this is over the top. Individual pieces are pretty good. I especially like the tie, the shirt and the sweater. But I would lose the coat entirely along with the tie pin. Using it like that is just silly. So, a BD chambray shirt with that tie under that sweater would go pretty well, but the coat clashes with everything.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> It's not a jacket I'd buy, but I think it would work if he (1) lost the pocket square and (2) used the collar as designed and just buttoned it down (or chose a straight-point collar shirt if he wanted to use a collar bar or pin, can't tell which it is). I would also have probably gone with a Ancient Madder or similarly heavy-texture tie.
> 
> Again, I'll admit, it's not my type of combo, but for a bold effort, I thought, notwithstanding a few misses, a good result.


I like the colors and the plaid but would never buy that jacket. unless it were an undarted 3/2 sack. If it were and I had it, I would wear it with a properly buttoned blue OCBD, olive plain front gabs, and a tie in a solid, maybe a knit, either navy, maize, rust, or bottle green. This might be a jacket better suited to no tie, a chambray work shirt, faded Levis, and old brown Luccheses. There would be no sweater, no pocket square, and no collar pin either way.. The shoes and belt If there were a tie would be medium brown, probably LHS.


----------



## drpeter

I have to agree with Fading Fast, I would not wear this jacket. I don't care for the texture of the fabric, and I don't much like the particular color combinations. And furthermore, I usually prefer check/plaid patterns that are somewhat smaller. IMHO, I don't think it flatters the model all that much. His skin tone is similar to mine and he looks as though he is from the old country (mine, that is) or at least from the old subcontinent. Olive greens, reds, blues and creams would look better on this chap than the large expanses of a drab brown that take up space on this jacket. He would also look terrific in shades of blue and grey. A Prince of Wales check with red highlights/windowpanes would be splendid for someone with his skin tone.


----------



## Fading Fast

Fun conversation on yesterday's outfit.

These could both be nice outfits, but they are just cut too skinny (especially the one on the left).


----------



## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> Fun conversation on yesterday's outfit.
> 
> These could both be nice outfits, but they are just cut too skinny (especially the one on the left).
> View attachment 48988


"Could be" but aren't. That sweater under a DB blazer just doesn't go!


----------



## Fading Fast

Oldsarge said:


> "Could be" but aren't. That sweater under a DB blazer just doesn't go!


I struggle with DBs, in part, because I never owned one (suit or sport coat). I've just never liked how they looked on me when I've tried them on; yet, I like them on others.

Is it that particular sweater you don't like or are you saying cardigan sweaters under DB blazers are wrong, period?

I thought it looked nice (needed to be buttoned more), but as noted, I don't know the ins and outs of DBs - is a cardigan sweater under them just not done?


----------



## Oldsarge

When a DB is buttoned, I fail to see how the cardigan is even visible. I can't remember ever seeing a three-piece DB suit, probably for that reason. While the cardigan would provide extra warmth on a cold day, visually I find it jarring.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Oldsarge said:


> When a DB is buttoned, I fail to see how the cardigan is even visible. I can't remember ever seeing a three-piece DB suit, probably for that reason. While the cardigan would provide extra warmth on a cold day, visually I find it jarring.


With you here. Awful sweater too. When you layer you don't just layer clothes, you layer color and pattern and texture, you build it up and out, or down and in, you don't just throw on stuff. Nothing about this photograph strikes likeable, including the lighting, resolution and composition


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> With you here. Awful sweater too. When you layer you don't just layer clothes, you layer color and pattern and texture, you build it up and out, or down and in, you don't just throw on stuff. Nothing about this photograph strikes likeable, including the lighting, resolution and composition


It's not surprising, coming from RL. He throws together these patterns and textures that clash, and he thinks it is some sort of avant-garde, trend-setting style he is pioneering. All it seems to indicate is that he, or the folks who plan his advertising, have poor taste. But perhaps it sells clothes, and if so, he is marketing poor taste successfully to a customer base that takes its cues from his clothing smorgasbord. In a capitalist culture, money trumps everything else, I suppose.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Stand up straight, fella.
Now let's see, what can we do here to make this seem less like an Asian mafia rig. Maybe lose the shades since there are few instances where the weather calls for tweed and sun glasses at the same time and I can't think of them. Maybe a white or ecru shirt and nada tie, which is Spanish for a special type of tie called invisible. But the actual suit, or the cloth rather, intrigues. But not that much. From the RL fall/winter 20/20 preview.


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 49008
> 
> 
> Stand up straight, fella.
> Now let's see, what can we do here to make this seem less like an Asian miafi rig. Maybe lose the shades since there are few instances where the weather calls for tweed and sun glasses at the same time and I can't think of them. Maybe a white or ecru shirt and nada tie, which is Spanish for a special type of tie called invisible. But the actual suit, or the cloth rather, intrigues. But not that much. From the RL fall/winter 20/20 preview.


Maybe he is a Yakuza hit man, and the bag contains a Heckler & Koch VP9.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> It's not surprising, coming from RL. He throws together these patterns and textures that clash, and he thinks it is some sort of avant-garde, trend-setting style he is pioneering. All it seems to indicate is that he, or the folks who plan his advertising, have poor taste. But perhaps it sells clothes, and if so, he is marketing poor taste successfully to a customer base that takes its cues from his clothing smorgasbord. In a capitalist culture, money trumps everything else, I suppose.


I don't know, the capitalist culture offers up a lot of options and then the people choose. Had the people wanted the old-style Brooks, Press, Banks, Gorsarts, etc. - all had big businesses in NYC in the '80s - they wouldn't have changed, shrunk or failed.

If people wanted those clothes, that wouldn't have happened and Press, O'Connells and the other niche businesses selling Trad clothing wouldn't be niche. Even today, Press is right there on 44th Street off of Madison in its new location with plenty of Trad clothing. Also, the store has a nice website, puts out beautiful catalogues and gets a reasonable amount of press, but it's still just a small store.

The people have spoken. You and I might think the people have chosen poorly - or have poor taste in clothing - but the people had, over the last three decades and right up to today, the opportunity to choose Trad and they passed. BB, Press, etc., didn't go down without a fight; Ralph and others didn't somehow force "bad" taste (to some) on consumers - the consumer chose.

And when we think about Ralph's model, I've mentioned it before, we should recognize that he has an intentionally different business model than the old BB or Press. Sure, BB and Press were innovators in their day, but by the '80s, the model I saw in those stores was structured to sell, basically, the same staples and classics tweaked a bit now and then. Ralph has always had a different business model as it is a fashion company. He takes those staples and classic in new directions intentionally.

That's why he participates in fashion shows, has collections, does some outré things with, especially, his fashion stuff, but even with his regular advertising and windows. Let's not kid ourselves, Del Vecchio was trying to do the Ralph thing with the Thom Browne Black Fleece effort - it just failed where Ralph succeeds.

I'm happy to admit, the whole fashion business is odd to me, but my friend in it says that all those things - the shows, the weird ads, the extreme stuff in the windows - is done to create buzz and drive sales. Even though most people don't buy or wear the "out there" stuff, it's believed in the industry that it works.

And those in fashion firmly and passionately believe it. Yes, one of the goals is to get "hot," as we've seen with Ralph over the years with different segments. But more importantly, those in the industry deeply believe that even when that doesn't happen, the noise and notice of the "fashion stuff" gets the middle-aged guy just looking for a few polos and chinos to choose Ralph.

To be sure, as you note, all these stores want to make money, but at the end of the day, the consumer is the one with the vote. And the American consumer has voted BB, Press, etc. all but out of office and Ralph and a lot of new brands in. I don't think a Ministry of Style based on some bureaucratic view of what people should wear - your or my view of "good" taste is someone else's vision of horrible taste and vice-versa - would be a good solution. I might not like the clothing choices people make, but I'm very glad they are free to make them.

I wish people wanted more of the clothes from Press or O'Connells, etc., but I don't blame Ralph or Uniqlo or Suit Supply or any of the new brands as no one has ever been forced to spend a single dollar in any of those stores and nobody has been stopped from spending their dollars at Brooks, etc. People vote with their pocketbooks and they voted the Trad style all but out of office. That, to me, is just people individually exercising their freedom to choose.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## London380sl

Overall I like the look butI I Iwould either ditch the bowtie and go tieless or swap out the orange sweater with something more muted. Too much orange.


----------



## Fading Fast

London380sl said:


> Overall I like the look butI I Iwould either ditch the bowtie and go tieless or swap out the orange sweater with something more muted. Too much orange.


I thought about the same. It's not an outfit I'd wear - I wash out completely in orange - but I like it, but either the tie or sweater have to change.

Only ever so slightly relevant, orange was Frank Sinatra's favorite color.


----------



## Old Road Dog

Fading Fast, your long post above is well-written and relevant. Not bad for 3:24 AM!


----------



## Fading Fast

Old Road Dog said:


> Fading Fast, your long post above is well-written and relevant. Not bad for 3:24 AM!


Thank you. Insomnia is a double-edged sword for me.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I don't know, the capitalist culture offers up a lot of options and then the people choose. Had the people wanted the old-style Brooks, Press, Banks, Gorsarts, etc. - all had big businesses in NYC in the '80s - they wouldn't have changed, shrunk or failed.
> 
> If people wanted those clothes, that wouldn't have happened and Press, O'Connells and the other niche businesses selling Trad clothing wouldn't be niche. Even today, Press is right there on 44th Street off of Madison in its new location with plenty of Trad clothing. Also, the store has a nice website, puts out beautiful catalogues and gets a reasonable amount of press, but it's still just a small store.
> 
> The people have spoken. You and I might think the people have chosen poorly - or have poor taste in clothing - but the people had, over the last three decades and right up to today, the opportunity to choose Trad and they passed. BB, Press, etc., didn't go down without a fight; Ralph and others didn't somehow force "bad" taste (to some) on consumers - the consumer chose.
> 
> And when we think about Ralph's model, I've mentioned it before, we should recognize that he has an intentionally different business model than the old BB or Press. Sure, BB and Press were innovators in their day, but by the '80s, the model I saw in those stores was structured to sell, basically, the same staples and classics tweaked a bit now and then. Ralph has always had a different business model as it is a fashion company. He takes those staples and classic in new directions intentionally.
> 
> That's why he participates in fashion shows, has collections, does some outré things with, especially, his fashion stuff, but even with his regular advertising and windows. Let's not kid ourselves, Del Vecchio was trying to do the Ralph thing with the Thom Browne Black Fleece effort - it just failed where Ralph succeeds.
> 
> I'm happy to admit, the whole fashion business is odd to me, but my friend in it says that all those things - the shows, the weird ads, the extreme stuff in the windows - is done to create buzz and drive sales. Even though most people don't buy or wear the "out there" stuff, it's believed in the industry that it works.
> 
> And those in fashion firmly and passionately believe it. Yes, one of the goals is to get "hot," as we've seen with Ralph over the years with different segments. But more importantly, those in the industry deeply believe that even when that doesn't happen, the noise and notice of the "fashion stuff" gets the middle-aged guy just looking for a few polos and chinos to choose Ralph.
> 
> To be sure, as you note, all these stores want to make money, but at the end of the day, the consumer is the one with the vote. And the American consumer has voted BB, Press, etc. all but out of office and Ralph and a lot of new brands in. I don't think a Ministry of Style based on some bureaucratic view of what people should wear - your or my view of "good" taste is someone else's vision of horrible taste and vice-versa - would be a good solution. I might not like the clothing choices people make, but I'm very glad they are free to make them.
> 
> I wish people wanted more of the clothes from Press or O'Connells, etc., but I don't blame Ralph or Uniqlo or Suit Supply or any of the new brands as no one has ever been forced to spend a single dollar in any of those stores and nobody has been stopped from spending their dollars at Brooks, etc. People vote with their pocketbooks and they voted the Trad style all but out of office. That, to me, is just people individually exercising their freedom to choose.


I understand the points you are making. They are much broader, however, than the situation I was referring to.

My comments were directed towards the mishmash of clothes that appear in the RL adverts, the practice that some of us have decried in this forum. And my argument was that Ralph probably found it increased sales, so he uses it, regardless of taste, poor or otherwise. This is mainly because any route to increased profits is legitimate in a profit-oriented capitalist culture. So my comments are very much limited to a practice that I suspect RL _may_ be using rather cynically to sell clothes, the practice that you and I probably agree is in poor taste. I fully understand that the vast majority of consumers don't care about our predilections or choices in clothing, they simply go with their own feelings about what they like. That is as it should be, I agree that tastes differ, and we can all dress any way we please. (I must say, though, that I have never seen an actual human wearing quite the combination of things seen in an RL advert!)

Now about choice. Consumers don't choose their clothing (or anything else, for that matter) in a completely free way. Free choice is a kind of ideal we talk about (mostly to indicate lack of coercion, I suspect), but in reality, our choices are influenced quite heavily by the messages we see and hear, both from others in our social circles, as well as from the enormous machinery of product advertising in modern societies. As a cognitive psychologist and neuroscientist who spent his career doing experimental research on attention and memory, I can confirm with confidence that the directing of consumer attention and the creation of desire in consumers are critical to advertising. If this is not true, why advertise at all, right? There was an old line about this: "When people are given complete freedom to make the choices they want, they choose what the person next to them chooses." Or words to that effect.

I include all of us living in our culture in this assessment, we are all subject to the influence of our peers, and this forum is itself a testament to that factor. I see my taste in Trad styles as something that came out of decades of influence, from reading magazines like _Esquire_ and _The New Yorker_, and admiring the clothes advertised in them, from designing my own clothes with my tailor to reflect those styles (since such ready-made clothes were not available in my country at the time), and from finding satisfaction in my own sense of style that I developed in those decades -- conservative, classical approaches to colour, material and form in clothes. The books I have in my library about menswear, especially those by authors like Bruce Boyer, were very supportive of my own developing taste, and has continued to influence my thinking about style in general, and clothing in particular. My tastes in literature, music, cinema and other areas are, in many ways, of a piece with my personal sense of style and my taste in clothes. Not a whole lot of free choice here! All heavily influenced by the things I read and saw over the years. And I am happy with my taste.

So I would discount the "style vacuum" in which the consumer votes. That vacuum has been amply filled with the words and images of the advertisers, and the opinions of that consumer's peers. Quite understandable. But it is far from a scenario in which the consumer sits as an impartial judge, systematically examining the merits or demerits of a particular style or some set of clothes, and making a selection based on this "rigorous" analysis. IMHO, it is not accurate to say that RL wins out because the _consumer has chosen him_ over J Press or O'Connell's. Ralph wins out because _his_ _adverts have won consumers over_ through a barrage of influence much stronger than Press and O'Connell's.

Lastly, you have taken my observations to a far extreme when you talk about a Ministry of Style. Let me gently add that a prescriptive approach was never the intent behind my words. I do not want prescriptive practices or sumptuary laws regarding dress (although the business dress codes of the past that we have been discussing in another thread are actually just that, a ministry of style laying down a dress code). One of the things I loved about working in academia was the freedom from dress codes. But my plea is for us to be aware that all of us are subject to influence, and that none of our clothing (or other) choices takes place free of the enormous amounts of influence ever present in our world. The greater "market share" of this influence is precisely what advertising is all about, isn't it?


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> I understand the points you are making. They are much broader, however, than the situation I was referring to.
> 
> My comments were directed towards the mishmash of clothes that appear in the RL adverts, the practice that some of us have decried in this forum. And my argument was that Ralph probably found it increased sales, so he uses it, regardless of taste, poor or otherwise. This is mainly because any route to increased profits is legitimate in a profit-oriented capitalist culture. So my comments are very much limited to a practice that I suspect RL _may_ be using rather cynically to sell clothes, the practice that you and I probably agree is in poor taste. I fully understand that the vast majority of consumers don't care about our predilections or choices in clothing, they simply go with their own feelings about what they like. That is as it should be, I agree that tastes differ, and we can all dress any way we please. (I must say, though, that I have never seen an actual human wearing quite the combination of things seen in an RL advert!)
> 
> Now about choice. Consumers don't choose their clothing (or anything else, for that matter) in a completely free way. Free choice is a kind of ideal we talk about (mostly to indicate lack of coercion, I suspect), but in reality, our choices are influenced quite heavily by the messages we see and hear, both from others in our social circles, as well as from the enormous machinery of product advertising in modern societies. As a cognitive psychologist and neuroscientist who spent his career doing experimental research on attention and memory, I can confirm with confidence that the directing of consumer attention and the creation of desire in consumers are critical to advertising. If this is not true, why advertise at all, right? There was an old line about this: "When people are given complete freedom to make the choices they want, they choose what the person next to them chooses." Or words to that effect.
> 
> I include all of us living in our culture in this assessment, we are all subject to the influence of our peers, and this forum is itself a testament to that factor. I see my taste in Trad styles as something that came out of decades of influence, from reading magazines like _Esquire_ and _The New Yorker_, and admiring the clothes advertised in them, from designing my own clothes with my tailor to reflect those styles (since such ready-made clothes were not available in my country at the time), and from finding satisfaction in my own sense of style that I developed in those decades -- conservative, classical approaches to colour, material and form in clothes. The books I have in my library about menswear, especially those by authors like Bruce Boyer, were very supportive of my own developing taste, and has continued to influence my thinking about style in general, and clothing in particular. My tastes in literature, music, cinema and other areas are, in many ways, of a piece with my personal sense of style and my taste in clothes. Not a whole lot of free choice here! All heavily influenced by the things I read and saw over the years. And I am happy with my taste.
> 
> So I would discount the "style vacuum" in which the consumer votes. That vacuum has been amply filled with the words and images of the advertisers, and the opinions of that consumer's peers. Quite understandable. But it is far from a scenario in which the consumer sits as an impartial judge, systematically examining the merits or demerits of a particular style or some set of clothes, and making a selection based on this "rigorous" analysis. IMHO, it is not accurate to say that RL wins out because the _consumer has chosen him_ over J Press or O'Connell's. Ralph wins out because _his_ _adverts have won consumers over_ through a barrage of influence much stronger than Press and O'Connell's.
> 
> Lastly, you have taken my observations to a far extreme when you talk about a Ministry of Style. Let me gently add that a prescriptive approach was never the intent behind my words. I do not want prescriptive practices or sumptuary laws regarding dress (although the business dress codes of the past that we have been discussing in another thread is actually just that, a ministry of style laying down a dress code). One of the things I loved about working in academia was the freedom from dress codes. But my plea is for us to be aware that all of us are subject to influence, and that none of our clothing (or other) choices takes place free of the enormous amounts of influence ever present in our world. The greater "market share" of this influence is precisely what advertising is all about, isn't it?


We could go down this road as I agree with some of the above but not all. I could argue about the meaning of freedom of choice, why I think Ralph did win and BB, etc., did lose, why there are many companies that don't look to maximize profits in a capitalist economy (private not public ones) and why I used a _reductio ad absurdum_ _(as you implicitly did a few times) _and at the end, we will have five (or ten or twenty...) more long post each and no one will have changed anyone's mind, probably, one little bit.

I enjoyed both your post and thank you for your thoughts and observations.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

I find it interesting that the Trad Forum devotes so much consideration to Ralph Lauren. He is clearly influenced strongly by Trad but also by British country. He evokes both but copies or reproduces neither. He has an eye for color and a penchant for clashes that would deeply rattle a Trad but might appeal to a certain type of British country aficionado, the sort who wears a glen plaid tweed jacket over a gun check waistcoat over a tattersall shirt. Generations before me schooled me never to mix plaids with other plaids or stripes. Never mix stripes with other stripes with the sole exception of a repp striped tie with a seersucker jacket or suit. I know these rules have been set aside over the years.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> I find it interesting that the Trad Forum devotes so much consideration to Ralph Lauren. He is clearly influenced strongly by Trad but also by British country. He evokes both but copies or reproduces neither. He has an eye for color and a penchant for clashes that would deeply rattle a Trad but might appeal to a certain type of British country aficionado, the sort who wears a glen plaid tweed jacket over a gun check waistcoat over a tattersall shirt. Generations before me schooled me never to mix plaids with other plaids or stripes. Never mix stripes with other stripes with the sole exception of a repp striped tie with a seersucker jacket or suit. I know these rules have been set aside over the years.


Good points and very consistent with the too-many articles I've read and documentaries I've seen on Ralph.

Yes, Trad is one of his influences, as is, as you note, British clothing and, also, Golden Era Hollywood, the "Old West" (real or imagined), classic military and many parts of America's clothing history.

While he's thought of by some as "taking over" from BB, he really just incorporated some of BB into some of what he does. As mentioned before, he's a fashion brand that borrows (as they all do) from many past influences.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> We could go down this road as I agree with some of the above but not all. I could argue about the meaning of freedom of choice, why I think Ralph did win and BB, etc., did lose, why there are many companies that don't look to maximize profits in a capitalist economy (private not public ones) and why I used a _reductio ad absurdum_ _(as you implicitly did a few times) _and at the end, we will have five (or ten or twenty...) more long post each and no one will have changed anyone's mind, probably, one little bit.
> 
> I enjoyed both your post and thank you for your thoughts and observations.


We can happily agree to disagree. After all, it is a question of differing viewpoints on style and influence for the most part. BTW, you are absolutely right that even in capitalist societies not all companies are there just to maximize profit. I agree that there are such exceptions, I was making a general statement.

LOL, as an undergraduate mathematics major, I used _reductio ad absurdum_ a fair bit! It has its uses.

And I agree, no point in carrying on with long arguments and theses, although I have been known to change my mind based on evidence and argument, at least in scientific matters. And happily concede a well-made point, such as the one you made on companies not oriented toward profit maximization.

On occasion, I have had to let go of a pet theory or mathematical model that I really loved, because experimental data from my own repeated studies falsified the model. And dealing with peer reviews and editors of journals has taught me the value of listening carefully to other voices. Recently a collaborator and I had three different journals turn down a paper, and the message is clear: It's time for us to rethink the whole thing! I suppose it is not quite the same degree of precision in the questions we have been discussing.

I respect and value your opinions and arguments (and agree with many of them). To me, these discussions are enjoyable precisely because our statements are well-considered and civil. Too often, especially on the net, people take positions doggedly and refuse to yield to persuasive arguments, and come to verbal blows. My tactic has generally been to listen to what others say, add my contribution and do all this in a civil manner. Thank you for your comments.


----------



## drpeter

TKI67 said:


> I find it interesting that the Trad Forum devotes so much consideration to Ralph Lauren. He is clearly influenced strongly by Trad but also by British country. He evokes both but copies or reproduces neither. He has an eye for color and a penchant for clashes that would deeply rattle a Trad but might appeal to a certain type of British country aficionado, the sort who wears a glen plaid tweed jacket over a gun check waistcoat over a tattersall shirt. Generations before me schooled me never to mix plaids with other plaids or stripes. Never mix stripes with other stripes with the sole exception of a repp striped tie with a seersucker jacket or suit. I know these rules have been set aside over the years.


I agree with your assessment of Ralph Lauren, and I will also add that I am somewhat mystified by the space and time we devote to him. There must be something compelling to those here in the Trad Forum, over and above RL's approach or adverts. Is it simply that there are more images from RL available for us, compared to J Press, O'Connell and so forth? I am not sure.

It could be that the British elements evoked by RL meshes in a historical way with the origins of Trad in English traditions and styles generally. An analogy that comes to mind is the British public school (Eton, Harrow, Charterhouse, Winchester, etc.) and its counterpart here, the American prep school (Philips Exeter, Choate, St Paul's, Hotchkiss, etc.). A lot of Trad is linked to such schools. The eastern establishment traditions echo English traditions, and perhaps all this comes into play in RL's clothes echoing English styles.

Your thoughts about British country styles reminded me of a British tradition that I have not seen very much in American clothing. The use of a very loudly coloured (and even patterned) lining, bright red or purple, say, inside a very sedately coloured and styled blazer or suitcoat. I am not sure I would wear such a jacket, but I confess it has a bit of an attraction for me!


----------



## Peak and Pine

drpeter said:


> There must be something compelling to those here in the Trad Forum....is it simply that there are more images from RL available for us, compared to J Press, O'Connell and so forth? I am not sure


Ralph Lauren is a desjgn company, some of which makes its way into production. O'Connells and Press just sell stuff.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> I agree with your assessment of Ralph Lauren, and I will also add that I am somewhat mystified by the space and time we devote to him. There must be something compelling to those here in the Trad Forum, over and above RL's approach or adverts. Is it simply that there are more images from RL available for us, compared to J Press, O'Connell and so forth? I am not sure.
> 
> It could be that the British elements evoked by RL meshes in a historical way with the origins of Trad in English traditions and styles generally. An analogy that comes to mind is the British public school (Eton, Harrow, Charterhouse, Winchester, etc.) and its counterpart here, the American prep school (Philips Exeter, Choate, St Paul's, Hotchkiss, etc.). A lot of Trad is linked to such schools. The eastern establishment traditions echo English traditions, and perhaps all this comes into play in RL's clothes echoing English styles.
> 
> Your thoughts about British country styles reminded me of a British tradition that I have not seen very much in American clothing. The use of a very loudly coloured (and even patterned) lining, bright red or purple, say, inside a very sedately coloured and styled blazer or suitcoat. I am not sure I would wear such a jacket, but I confess it has a bit of an attraction for me!


I was going to answer the implied question in your first sentence, but then you went on to answer it exactly how I would. My short version: he gives us a lot of interesting material to work with; whereas, Press, O'Connells, etc., don't. When Press releases its (seemingly) semi-annual catalogue, we tend to post some pics and discuss it here for a few days and, then, we've beaten that horse dead. But with Ralph, we have fifty years of neat old stuff plus he keeps giving us new material.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I was going to answer the implied question in your first sentence, but then you went on to answer it exactly how I would. My short version: he gives us a lot of interesting material to work with; whereas, Press, O'Connells, etc., don't. When Press releases its (seemingly) semi-annual catalogue, we tend to post some pics and discuss it here for a few days and, then, we've beaten that horse dead. But with Ralph, we have fifty years of neat old stuff plus he keeps giving us new material.


Yes, I agree. I wish there was actually more in the way of images and information from Press or O'Connell's, but I doubt if they would ever do advertising at the level of RL. I wonder if their reluctance to advertise is partly because they don't want to spend the money, or because they are disdainful of the business of selling to those outside the Trad circle. I know that Richard Press has his own blog, but I am not sure how popular that is.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Yes, I agree. I wish there was actually more in the way of images and information from Press or O'Connell's, but I doubt if they would ever do advertising at the level of RL. I wonder if their reluctance to advertise is partly because they don't want to spend the money, or because they are disdainful of the business of selling to those outside the Trad circle. I know that Richard Press has his own blog, but I am not sure how popular that is.


Just a guess, it's probably a chicken and egg as they'd advertise more if their biz increased.

Press has, IMO, upped its advertising substantially over the past few years, but is still a rounding error vs Ralph as you imply. The catalogues and blog are relatively new and both are really good - but I also remember reading that the catalogue is a very expensive effort that you got the feeling was on a short leash. Hopefully it will survive.

IMO, Press, right now, is the exact company that we here should want to do well. It's very Trad, but is also trying to bring in a younger audience with two kinds of fit and some updated styles, etc. and with a lot of community outreach (night lectures at the store, etc.).

O'Connells is great, but it's not trying to be updated or actively attract a younger client like Press is. I'm not very optimistic, but I'm really hoping Press grows.

If we want a new generation to embrace, at least, some of the Trad style, then the new Press store in NYC is one of our best hopes as it feels new - fresh with a knowledgeable young staff - not musty or with a bunch of old-men salesmen (I'm 56, so not making fun of them, but Press' young salesmen probably appeal more to Millennials).


----------



## Peak and Pine

drpeter said:


> I wish there was actually more in the way of images and information from Press or O'Connell's, but I doubt if they would ever do advertising at the level of RL.


This post from above may have been overlooked...



Peak and Pine said:


> Ralph Lauren is a desjgn company, some of which makes its way into production. O'Connells and Press just sell stuff.


Ford just introduced the new Bronco with a series of exquisite ads. They designed and manufacture it. Your local Ford dealer has lousy Bronco ads. They simply sell them. RL Company designs and manufactures clothing. Press and O'Connells sell stuff.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> This post from above may have been overlooked...
> 
> Ford just introduced the new Bronco with a series of exquisite ads. They designed and manufacture it. Your local Ford dealer has lousy Bronco ads. They simply sell them. RL Company designs and manufactures clothing. Press and O'Connells sell stuff.


Thanks, Peaks, I did not quite understand the implication of that first statement, although I did see the statement. Now, this leads me to wonder where J Press and O'Connell's are getting their suits, sport coats, trousers and shirts made. I started searching the net for this information on J Press, but did not get far, other than finding out that a Japanese company has owned J Press since the late 80s, roughly. (Makes sense, since the Japanese are more Trad than the Americans, LOL). I haven't searched for the same information for O'Connell's yet. Perhaps you or others might know where these two Trad icons get their clothes actually made. I had assumed that, except for the outsourcing by Press (the York Street stuff) they had made their clothes in their own tailoring rooms. It seems I am wrong!


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 49041


Now this is more like it -- no huge clashes! I think a bit more colour in the tie or the pocket square would enhance the ensemble, but that's just my personal taste. Dark reds, maroons, creams and olives in some combination in a necktie or pocket square would make the browns in the jacket and trousers look less uniform. Likewise, a brighter tattersall shirt with lines in these colours would also enhance the outfit.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 49082


There's a Madame Tussauds quality about the way these models look, especially their faces. To me, they give the impression of people posing as mannequins!


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> There's a Madame Tussauds quality about the way these models look, especially their faces. To me, they give the impression of people posing as mannequins!


I agree. The whole "fashion" thing is bizarre to me, but those in the industry believe passionately in what they are doing and how they do it.

I think they play to each other more than a general audience, but they'll tell you that getting that fashion "buzz" translates into sales to their target audiences.

Another much-smaller thing that I notice all the time is that the pants, quite often, are meaningfully too long on the models - like the one at the far right today. I'm amazed they don't either fit the clothes ahead of time or have a few tailors on site to make real-time adjustments.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I agree. The whole "fashion" thing is bizarre to me, but those in the industry believe passionately in what they are doing and how they do it.
> 
> I think they play to each other more than a general audience, but they'll tell you that getting that fashion "buzz" translates into sales to their target audiences.
> 
> Another much-smaller thing that I notice all the time is that the pants, quite often, are meaningfully too long on the models - like the one at the far right today. I'm amazed they don't either fit the clothes ahead of time or have a few tailors on site to make real-time adjustments.


Yes, you're bang on target regarding the trouser legs. In this and other images, especially in the last few years, the narrowing of trouser legs has also been accompanied by a carelessness about their length, so that over the calf and at the ankles, the trousers exhibit "concertina'd" wrinkles. They could just pin the cuffs to the right length for the photo shoot, couldn't they? These trousers remind me very strongly of the _pyjamas_ that are worn with _kurtas_ in northern India and Pakistan, especially in the Punjab. Not a good look for trousers in Western-style dressing!


----------



## Old Road Dog

I'm the last person who would criticize Ralph Lauren clothing, as I wore nothing but RL for many years; but, what I see here would not be to my liking. That fit is just not right for grown men. Good old Tom Moore ( the mature gentleman in the Polo ads of the eighties) would laugh. Are they selling this stuff? To whom? As a former retailer, I can say that stores would be screaming if they had a business in Ralph's clothing and it fit this way. It's window dressing....literally.


----------



## IT_cyclist

eagle2250 said:


> I'm not a big fan of burnt orange trousers, but in this instance they work reasonably well with that rig


Agreed. And I'd 86 the cap.


----------



## Fading Fast

The sport coat is so short and skinny that it almost looks uncomfortable. Also, rolling that pants up like that doesn't makes much sense to me.

I'm not a white-pants guy - I don't think I've ever owned a pair - but properly fitted, the outfit looks okay, but the way its tailored, makes it look odd.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 49104
> 
> The sport coat is so short and skinny that it almost looks uncomfortable. Also, rolling that pants up like that doesn't makes much sense to me.
> 
> I'm not a white-pants guy - I don't think I've ever owned a pair - but properly fitted, the outfit looks okay, but the way its tailored, makes it look odd.


I agree with your assessment save one word, the inclusion of the word "almost." Great plaid, though. I have long liked large plaid jackets and am glad to see them showing up again.


----------



## drpeter

Perhaps we can find some images from the distant past -- adverts that RL did 30 years ago when jackets were not as short or tight, and pants had some room in the legs? LOL, here's another vision of things from 30 years ago, and the way things are going in the world, it looks ever more likely that this sort of fashion will come true!


----------



## Peak and Pine

TKI67 said:


> Great plaid, though. I have long liked large plaid jackets and am glad to see them showing up again.


Yes to that, if that were the case here. Go back and look again. Blow up if necessary. It's a 'fun' jacket. The right side is different from the left and it's not the lighting (which at first glance I bought into.) It's a mess. Upon mess upon mess.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Peak and Pine said:


> Yes to that, if that were the case here. Go back and look again. Blow up if necessary. It's a 'fun' jacket. The right side is different from the left and it's not the lighting (which at first glance I bought into.) It's a mess. Upon mess upon mess.


Agree the jacket is a mess. It's a darn shame Ralph ran out of the large plaid before he finished it and even supplementing it with lesser cloth, still did not have enough to make an entire jacket for this guy.


----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> Yes to that, if that were the case here. Go back and look again. Blow up if necessary. It's a 'fun' jacket. The right side is different from the left and it's not the lighting (which at first glance I bought into.) It's a mess. Upon mess upon mess.


Indeed, the jacket is a royal mess. I would actually be embarrassed to take it to Goodwill. How would one get rid of it? :icon_scratch:


----------



## fred johnson

drpeter said:


> Perhaps we can find some images from the distant past -- adverts that RL did 30 years ago when jackets were not as short or tight, and pants had some room in the legs? LOL, here's another vision of things from 30 years ago, and the way things are going in the world, it looks ever more likely that this sort of fashion will come true!
> 
> View attachment 49110


Actually Tina Turner looked great!


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Perhaps we can find some images from the distant past -- adverts that RL did 30 years ago when jackets were not as short or tight, and pants had some room in the legs? LOL, here's another vision of things from 30 years ago, and the way things are going in the world, it looks ever more likely that this sort of fashion will come true!
> 
> View attachment 49110


This one said it's from 1994, so in your timeframe and, as you noted, full-length, traditional-fit jacket and pants with some room in them:


----------



## FiscalDean

eagle2250 said:


> Indeed, the jacket is a royal mess. I would actually be embarrassed to take it to Goodwill. How would one get rid of it? :icon_scratch:


Slow down while driving past,roll down the window and toss it then hit the accelerator!


----------



## Peak and Pine

No. We're looking for a happy medium. That not be it. That be guy wearing Gramp's clothes. The mortuary's been looking everywhere for them.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> This one said it's from 1994, so in your timeframe and, as you noted, full-length, traditional-fit jacket and pants with some room in them:
> View attachment 49117


MUCH more to my liking! Thanks @Fading Fast .


----------



## Peak and Pine

Will from now only post stuff you could actually wear and look good. Cut off age: 40.

#1


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 49118
> 
> 
> No. We're looking for a happy medium. That not be it. That be guy wearing Gramp's clothes. The mortuary's been looking everywhere for them.


Hehe, I don't know Peaks, these days I've been feeling more and more like a Great Grandpa...


----------



## Peak and Pine

#2

Jeans can (and should) be worn lower. Especially if like Danny Dungaree here, you left your hips out in the car. Cut off age: 30.


----------



## Peak and Pine

#3

Cut off age: none. Roll down the cuffs tho, about the tme you get your first pay check.


----------



## Peak and Pine

#4

A well-fitted shirt. Below elbow roll up. Medium gray and light blue. Unexciting color combo which means you can wear anywhere. The logo? Get over it.

All ages, toddlers up.


----------



## Peak and Pine

#5

Ahhhhh.
Ages? None, this one's just for me. Hands off. (Picture, a 75 year-old, drool free, ram-rod posture [with the help of a back brace] stepping across the dewed up grass, placing his ivory tipped walking stick [Grandfather's, the other one, the Spanish American War one] in the gun rack and driving in town for more XXXX For President bumper stickers. You never can have enough. And they don't have to go on just bumpers.)


----------



## Peak and Pine

Post script.

Had not intially absorbed the idea that the outer coat was the same fabric as the DB beneath. Thought there was a vest involved, there isn't. I would not wear the coat with the jacket. I'm not a paper doll.


----------



## Fading Fast

I'm not a white-pants guy, but "unskinny*" the jacket and take the crest off and I like the outfit (meh on the belt).

*I'm fine with slim fit (works well for my frame) and I like the look if you're built for it, but skinny is slim taken too far as, for example, his arms look like they'd struggle to bend all the way in those sleeves.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Peak and Pine said:


> #4
> 
> A well-fitted shirt. Below elbow roll up. Medium gray and light blue. Unexciting color combo which means you can wear anywhere. The logo? Get over it.
> 
> All ages, toddlers up.
> 
> View attachment 49125


Brings a flood of memories of everything I abhorred about business casual.


----------



## London380sl

Apart from the fact the blazer looks about 2 sizes too small for the model I'll give the navy blazer and white pants another thumbs up. Unlike a lot of people the crest don't really bother me. I suspect the reason is ,when I was growing up, we had a number of private boys and girls schools in the city that I lived in and the dress code for them for was a blazer with school crest. I just associate blazer and crests as being normal.


----------



## drpeter

London380sl said:


> Apart from the fact the blazer looks about 2 sizes too small for the model I'll give the navy blazer and white pants another thumbs up. Unlike a lot of people the crest don't really bother me. I suspect the reason is ,when I was growing up, we had a number of private boys and girls schools in the city that I lived in and the dress code for them for was a blazer with school crest. I just associate blazer and crests as being normal.


I understand your view, and agree that school, university, club or other institutional crests (and neckties) displaying a "coat of arms" are customary, and appropriate in my humble opinion. I'll happily admit that I find them rather enjoyable when seen on a blazer or tie. Part of the functon of these insignia is to denote membership in a group, so that a person wearing the crest of a cricket club on his blazer, say, would be identified as such.( I've worn such blazers myself, back in cricketing days). It's the idea of a military regiment extended to civilian life. But somehow a crest that is effectively an advertisement for a manufacturer seems inappropriate and arriviste to me.

Does the RL crest signify membership in an RL Club or Society? If it can be worn by anyone who simply buys that blazer, is it a society or club at all? My sense is that Ralph wanted to add traditional English trappings to his clothes, and create an atmosphere redolent of English style and taste. Blazer crests are most commonly identified with that atmosphere, and thus market that atmosphere as part of his collection of pieces.

Of course, RL is free to emblazon his clothes with whatever he wants, and customers are free to buy them or not, so my comment simply reflects my own view in this matter. No offence to anyone, I trust.


----------



## London380sl

Totally agree with you. Ralph is putting on his RL crest to emulate traditional British style. Would I buy one blazer like that -probably not.

Having said that I do have a couple of his rugby shirts and they have RL crests on them and, to be honest, I like them. A rugby shirt without a crest just doesn't look right to me.

Same with polo shirts. I expect a polo shirt to have a SMALL emblem on it. Blank polo shirts just don't look right to me.


----------



## Oldsarge

London380sl said:


> Apart from the fact the blazer looks about 2 sizes too small for the model I'll give the navy blazer and white pants another thumbs up. Unlike a lot of people the crest don't really bother me. I suspect the reason is ,when I was growing up, we had a number of private boys and girls schools in the city that I lived in and the dress code for them for was a blazer with school crest. I just associate blazer and crests as being normal.





drpeter said:


> I understand your view, and agree that school, university, club or other institutional crests (and neckties) displaying a "coat of arms" are customary, and appropriate in my humble opinion. I'll happily admit that I find them rather enjoyable when seen on a blazer or tie. Part of the functon of these insignia is to denote membership in a group, so that a person wearing the crest of a cricket club on his blazer, say, would be identified as such.( I've worn such blazers myself, back in cricketing days). It's the idea of a military regiment extended to civilian life. But somehow a crest that is effectively an advertisement for a manufacturer seems inappropriate and arriviste to me.
> 
> Does the RL crest signify membership in an RL Club or Society? If it can be worn by anyone who simply buys that blazer, is it a society or club at all? My sense is that Ralph wanted to add traditional English trappings to his clothes, and create an atmosphere redolent of English style and taste. Blazer crests are most commonly identified with that atmosphere, and thus market that atmosphere as part of his collection of pieces.
> 
> Of course, RL is free to emblazon his clothes with whatever he wants, and customers are free to buy them or not, so my comment simply reflects my own view in this matter. No offence to anyone, I trust.


Agree with both points. My university has never had a crest (heck, I couldn't even get them to start selling logo plaques, though they did give me one I hung in my club) but somewhere I do have a U.S. Army. Unfortunately, it pokes holes in the cloth of the pocket so wearing it on a blazer becomes a permanent thing.


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> Agree with both points. My university has never had a crest (heck, I couldn't even get them to start selling logo plaques, though they did give me one I hung in my club) but somewhere I do have a U.S. Army. Unfortunately, it pokes holes in the cloth of the pocket so wearing it on a blazer becomes a permanent thing.


Yes, those types of crests can damage the blazer. Back in my old country, crests were embroidered or sewn right on to the breast pocket (at least for cricketing blazers). So that was about as permanent as one could get!


----------



## drpeter

London380sl said:


> Totally agree with you. Ralph is putting on his RL crest to emulate traditional British style. Would I buy one blazer like that -probably not.
> 
> Having said that I do have a couple of his rugby shirts and they have RL crests on them and, to be honest, I like them. A rugby shirt without a crest just doesn't look right to me.
> 
> Same with polo shirts. I expect a polo shirt to have a SMALL emblem on it. Blank polo shirts just don't look right to me.


Absolutely! You wear the styles you prefer. More power to you.

Personally, I don't require an emblem for the polo shirts I wear (unless it is part of the outfit you wear when you are actually playing polo for a club, LOL). But if it comes with one, I don't mind at all. I have a few Lacoste/IZOD polos with a little alligator embroidered on the front, and I rather like it!

I also have some shirts with the small RL polo player, and one recently acquired button-down shirt with the US Polo Association's polo player emblem on it. (We discussed these logos some weeks ago in another thread, but there was actually a legal battle between the USPA and RL about the emblem and trademark violation.).


----------



## Fading Fast

And relevant to our crest discussion:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> And relevant to our crest discussion:
> View attachment 49153


Having velcro(ed) Command and Unit patches to my BDU's, flight suits, etc. for so many years, I guess I could be seen as an aficionado of organizational patches/crests. However, I have never had the nerve to wear such on my civilian attire and I certainly would never wear the emblem pictured on that striped blazer! Perhaps on a solid blazer it would work? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> I understand your view, and agree that school, university, club or other institutional crests (and neckties) displaying a "coat of arms" are customary, and appropriate in my humble opinion. I'll happily admit that I find them rather enjoyable when seen on a blazer or tie. Part of the functon of these insignia is to denote membership in a group, so that a person wearing the crest of a cricket club on his blazer, say, would be identified as such.( I've worn such blazers myself, back in cricketing days). It's the idea of a military regiment extended to civilian life. But somehow a crest that is effectively an advertisement for a manufacturer seems inappropriate and arriviste to me.
> 
> Does the RL crest signify membership in an RL Club or Society? If it can be worn by anyone who simply buys that blazer, is it a society or club at all? My sense is that Ralph wanted to add traditional English trappings to his clothes, and create an atmosphere redolent of English style and taste. Blazer crests are most commonly identified with that atmosphere, and thus market that atmosphere as part of his collection of pieces.
> 
> Of course, RL is free to emblazon his clothes with whatever he wants, and customers are free to buy them or not, so my comment simply reflects my own view in this matter. No offence to anyone, I trust.


I, too, am ok with those various badges of membership: blazer crests, emblematic ties, class rings, and so on, although they can certainly be overdone. I admit to feeling mixed emotions when I see a repp stripe I love from a regiment, school, or club to which i did not belong. Fortunately the few repp strips I have are combinations I like and from schools I attended. I can just see some dude decked out in RL walking down Pall Mall and being asked when he served in India!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> Having velcro(ed) Command and Unit patches to my BDU's, flight suits, etc. for so many years, I guess I could be seen as an aficionado of organizational patches/crests. However, I have never had the nerve to wear such on my civilian attire and I certainly would never wear the emblem pictured on that striped blazer! Perhaps on a solid blazer it would work? :icon_scratch:


Each year on Veterans Day our church has veterans read the lessons and psalm. They are asked to wear things that evidence their service. Most wear service ribbons on their lapels. It was neat to see one parishioner sporting his Legion of Merit. I am squeamish. A blue and gold tie is my limit in civvies.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 49151
> 
> 
> And relevant to our crest discussion:
> View attachment 49153


Actually as Ralph goes Trad, those are two of his better efforts. A polo coat and GTH pants is a classic mid 1960s combination, and a blazer badge on a striped blazer typical of a rowing club would make sense if it were a rowing club badge. Maybe it signifies "Right Left." Those rowing club blazers were typically quite light, and it would not be unusual to see someone adding a layer for a chilly early spring race, although a grey sweat shirt or a Shetland crewneck would be more likely than a very bulky tennis sweater. Sorry, Ralph.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> Actually as Ralph goes Trad, those are two of his better efforts. A polo coat and GTH pants is a classic mid 1960s combination, and a blazer badge on a striped blazer typical of a rowing club would make sense if it were a rowing club badge. Maybe it signifies "Right Left." Those rowing club blazers were typically quite light, and it would not be unusual to see someone adding a layer for a chilly early spring race, although a grey sweat shirt or a Shetland crewneck would be more likely than a very bulky tennis sweater. Sorry, Ralph.


⇧ Agreed. I think it was @eagle2250 who first pointed this out when we were talking about Ralph showing belts in advertisements, but sometimes I get the feeling that the outfits in the ads are reverse engineered to solve for the number and kinds of items "the team" wants to push.

So, if rowing blazers and tennis sweaters and pants with odd writing on them are going to be promoted, then the marketing/style team has to do its best to get as many of those and the other items they want to promote into the outfits in the ads.

Also, no original thought here, but it's probably why Ralph is such a fan of layering as, not only can one ad show more items, but if some customers start dressing that way, they'll need to buy more of Ralph's clothes.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 49213


A classic PRL picture, but I am compelled to ask, noting the heft of the fabric, is the fellow second from the left wearing one of those knit sport jackets and also is he wearing shorts...or have my eyes deceived me? :icon_scratch:


----------



## MikeF

eagle2250 said:


> A classic PRL picture, but I am compelled to ask, noting the heft of the fabric, is the fellow second from the left wearing one of those knit sport jackets and also is he wearing shorts...or have my eyes deceived me? :icon_scratch:


Looks like cuffed shorts to me.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> A classic PRL picture, but I am compelled to ask, noting the heft of the fabric, is the fellow second from the left wearing one of those knit sport jackets and also is he wearing shorts...or have my eyes deceived me? :icon_scratch:





MikeF said:


> Looks like cuffed shorts to me.


Agreed on the cuffed shorts. The top looks like a heavy shawl cardigan to me, but I know what you are thinking with the knit sport jackets, but I'm going with shawl-collared cardigan.


----------



## Oldsarge

Coat, yes. Sweater, yes. Pants? No way in Hell!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Hmm, no interest in discussing a too-tightly-fitted brown double breasted suit.

⇩ How 'bout a too-tightly-fitted grey glen-plaid double breasted suit?


----------



## Old Road Dog

Interesting how young, fit, professional models can't make a poorly-cut suit look good....and who wears a BD collar with a DB suit?


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Hmm, no interest in discussing a too-tightly-fitted brown double breasted suit.
> 
> ⇩ How 'bout a too-tightly-fitted grey glen-plaid double breasted suit?
> View attachment 49270


Looks a bit like an over filled sausage, whose casing will catastrophically split when he's brought to a boil! Just thinking. LOL.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

The last two remind me of the Brooks Brothers look of recent years. Decent fabrics, uncomfortably tight fitting, and a tendency to have too many gimmicky details. To the untrained eye they probably look traditional.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 49321


Lose the horizontal stripes and two block the tie and I'd give the outfit a B. Could have been an A with a herringbone more like Harris.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> Lose the horizontal stripes and two block the tie and I'd give the outfit a B. Could have been an A with a herringbone more like Harris.


Agreed, it calls out for a heavy, swelled-edge Harris Tweed sport coat.


----------



## Fading Fast

Might be a dupe


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Might be a dupe
> View attachment 49357


He's dressed almost normally.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> He's dressed almost normally.


Agreed! However, as is invariably the case with Ralph there are subtleties that reveal him decidedly non-Trad such as the cut of the blazer, what appear to be pleated and uncuffed trousers, and the sprezzatura wearing of the tie. I love his choice in footwear!


----------



## Old Road Dog

That is the only photo I have seen of Ralph in a plain-bottom dress trouser. A cuff over that classic tennis shoe would be a step too far, in my opinion. The plain bottom is just right, as is the BD collar on the shirt. I don't know that I have see him in his own button-down before. This outfit was carefully planned, despite its simplicity.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Old Road Dog said:


> That is the only photo I have seen of Ralph in a plain-bottom dress drouser. A cuff over that classic tennis shoe would be a step to far, in my opinion. The plain bottom is just right, as is the BD collar on the shirt. I don't know that I have see him in his own button-down before. This outfit was carefully planned, despite its simplicity.


While that cuff works with the sneakers, this Trad owns no uncuffed trousers, but then I am not a fashion magnate. Heck, I'll bet Ralph owns several pairs of khakis!


----------



## eagle2250

TKI67 said:


> Agreed! However, as is invariably the case with Ralph there are subtleties that reveal him decidedly non-Trad such as the cut of the blazer, what appear to be pleated and uncuffed trousers, and the sprezzatura wearing of the tie. I love his choice in footwear!


LOL, Not a fan of wearing sneakers with a blazer and tie, but who am I to question Ralph? I do like those uncuffed trousers, as confirmed by the content of my closets.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> LOL, Not a fan of wearing sneakers with a blazer and tie, but who am I to question Ralph? I do like those uncuffed trousers, as confirmed by the content of my closets.


I am not in favour of wearing sneakers with a blazer and tie, either. I also have a personal preference for pleated trousers with cuffs, and flat fronts without cuffs, although I am OK with flat fronts having cuffs. Just an idiocyncrasy, no good reason, really!


----------



## Fading Fast

More fodder for our crests-on-sport coats / blazers discussion:


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

That tweed is pretty enough I would wear it despite the darts, but the badge is just wrong on it and the premature elbow patches are silly. Now if they tucked the patches into the pocket with the extra buttons that might be nice twenty years or more later. Of course there would be that issue of where to stow them. In the sewing basket, where they would obscure needles, thread, and darning egg? In the top dresser, atop the tangle of striped watch straps and the tin of collar stays (and if you are an RL devotee, your collar bars)?


----------



## eagle2250

TKI67 said:


> That tweed is pretty enough I would wear it despite the darts, but the badge is just wrong on it and the premature elbow patches are silly. Now if they tucked the patches into the pocket with the extra buttons that might be nice twenty years or more later. Of course there would be that issue of where to stow them. In the sewing basket, where they would obscure needles, thread, and darning egg? In the top dresser, atop the tangle of striped watch straps and the tin of collar stays (and if you are an RL devotee, your collar bars)?


I do so love that jacket, including the elbow patches. I consider the patches a desirable design feature, as they will protect the fabric they cover from ever wearing through. However, the emblem and the pocket square, particularly on a Tweed Jacket, serve only to "gag a maggot" and they should be tossed, straightaway! Regarding the buttons, my wife goes through the pockets of each newly purchased garment, collecting the spare buttons and labeling the packets as to which suit or sport coat they go with, and then neatly stores them in her suitcase sized sewing basket. LOL, I haven't had the heart to tell her that two thirds of the garments those buttons go to are no longer in the closet, but she does indeed have one hell of a button collection!


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> That tweed is pretty enough I would wear it despite the darts, but the badge is just wrong on it and the premature elbow patches are silly. Now if they tucked the patches into the pocket with the extra buttons that might be nice twenty years or more later. Of course there would be that issue of where to stow them. In the sewing basket, where they would obscure needles, thread, and darning egg? In the top dresser, atop the tangle of striped watch straps and the tin of collar stays (and if you are an RL devotee, your collar bars)?





eagle2250 said:


> I do so love that jacket, including the elbow patches. I consider the patches a desirable design feature, as they will protect the fabric they cover from ever wearing through. However, the emblem and the pocket square, particularly on a Tweed Jacket, serve only to "gag a maggot" and they should be tossed, straightaway! Regarding the buttons, my wife goes through the pockets of each newly purchased garment, collecting the spare buttons and labeling the packets as to which suit or sport coat they go with, and then neatly stores them in her suitcase sized sewing basket. LOL, I haven't had the heart to tell her that two thirds of the garments those buttons go to are no longer in her closet, but she does indeed have one hell of a button collection!


You guys cracked me up as, like both of you and I'm sure many AAAC members, I have a drawer full of buttons, extra material, stays and some other clothing odds and ends. I am nowhere near as organized as Mrs. Eagle (she's awesome), but have tried to label where possible.

That challenges as you also note, is time passing. The drawer keeps getting stuff, I don't go through it periodically to cull (although I have done that in moves, which has helped) and garments move on. Being honest, I'd say I've had about a fifty-fifty success rate in finding a button or piece of material in there when needed, but even a successful efforts takes a lot of time to hunt out.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> I do so love that jacket, including the elbow patches. I consider the patches a desirable design feature, as they will protect the fabric they cover from ever wearing through. However, the emblem and the pocket square, particularly on a Tweed Jacket, serve only to "gag a maggot" and they should be tossed, straightaway! Regarding the buttons, my wife goes through the pockets of each newly purchased garment, collecting the spare buttons and labeling the packets as to which suit or sport coat they go with, and then neatly stores them in her suitcase sized sewing basket. LOL, I haven't had the heart to tell her that two thirds of the garments those buttons go to are no longer in the closet, but she does indeed have one hell of a button collection!


Being a collector from birth, I am with Mrs Eagle. I appreciate collections of all kinds, even if the sources of the spare buttons have passed on into history.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

I always liked the way Orvis had the spare buttons sewn on where they did not show. They were easily liberated with a pen knife.


----------



## drpeter

Haha, speaking of liberating things with pen knives, I once foolishly used a pen knife to remove a monogram from a lovely Lands' End canvas attache bag that was on sale as a return, and cost very little. It took a while, and _afterwards_, I learned (from a woman, who else?) that there is a simple tool that tailors and seamstresses use for this and many other purposes -- a seam ripper! Some lessons are learned the hard way, LOL.


----------



## Peak and Pine

drpeter said:


> I learned...that there is a simple tool that tailors and seamstresses use for this and many other purposes -- a seam ripper! Some lessons are learned the hard way, LOL.


If I may...

Unlearn that pretty quick. A seam ripper in the wrong, in the right, in any hands is a mighty harmful tool and can rip your stuff to shreds with the twitch of a finger. Maybe also forget about a pen knife. That's for gutting squirrels. Undoing a seam (let's trash the term _rip_) requires precision. And time. If you're looking for quick and easy in any tailoring endeavor that you yourself undertake, have you yourself reach quick and easy into your wallet and take it to someone who knows better.

An ideal tool for undoing a seam is a single edge blade, very sharp, not shoved in a holder, but directly in your hand. Strong light and the proper power reading glasses. And tee vee off because in a silent environment you should be able to hear each stitch snap. Each side of the seam should be held taut and apart as you go with great pressure using a single hand in a scissoring position, the blade in the other.

Safety is paramount. Not to you, to your clothes. You've got band-aids. Your clothes got nothin'.


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> If I may...
> 
> Unlearn that pretty quick. A seam ripper in the wrong, in the right, in any hands is a mighty harmful tool and can rip your stuff to shreds with the twitch of a finger. Maybe also forget about a pen knife. That's for gutting squirrels. Undoing a seam (let's trash the term _rip_) requires precision. And time. If you're looking for quick and easy in any tailoring endeavor that you yourself undertake, have you yourself reach quick and easy into your wallet and take it to someone who knows better.
> 
> An ideal tool for undoing a seam is a single edge blade, very sharp, not shoved in a holder, but directly in your hand. Strong light and the proper power reading glasses. And tee vee off because in a silent environment you should be able to hear each stitch snap. Each side of the seam should be held taut and apart as you go with great pressure using a single hand in a scissoring position, the blade in the other.
> 
> Safety is paramount. Not to you, to your clothes. You've got band-aids. Your clothes got nothin'.


Thanks for the warning. The only time I tried to get a monogram off was the one situation I described. With the penknife, I managed to get everything off without damage to the canvas, although the many tiny holes did not quite disappear, even after I wet it with a bit of warm water and let it dry. After that I resolved to let my tailor, or someone skilled remove things like monograms. I agree with you that it is advisable for someone without tailoring skills (like myself) not to try using a seam ripper -- and I was not planning to. What's more, I would not have the patience to work with the single blade in the way you suggest. I have managed to take certain stitched in tags (the ones that are cut before the garment is put on sale) out with no damage to the cloth, but if at all complex, I am content to take such jobs to my tailor.

That said, I don't agree with you regarding the danger of using this tool,_ if it is used by someone with skill and experience_. I have watched my tailor take apart seams quickly using a seam ripper, with zero damage to the garment. Granted he is a very skilled and experienced tailor, but women friends who do some sewing and repairs at home also use seam rippers without any damage being done.

Here's a video (one of dozens) on how to use a seam ripper, both the slow stitch by stiitch method and the fast method using the small red ball -- I think the latter is the method I've seen Mr Vang, my tailor, use. Yes, you have to work with care, but in the right hands, it is quite doable.






I can and do sew buttons on, by the way. That's safe, except for an occasional poke in the finger! However, absolutely no violence to squirrels or other animals! Horrors!

Thanks again for the cautionary note -- your point is well taken.


----------



## drpeter

One more video, to show a different type of seam being taken out with the seam ripper:


----------



## Peak and Pine

I didn't watch the videos. I gave you my warning. Let me restate. I'm not interested in quick and easy. I like safe and sure. I also like by-hand stuff. Anything. I once built a small house by hand (there are pics of it on here some place ). A quirk maybe. When it comes to tailoring. which I only do for myself, I do almost everything by hand, often unnecessarily so. Pick stitching on the exterior of pant cuffs for example. You've heard about people in their 70s who try to act 40. Since my 40s I've tried to act 70. Just to get prepared. Quick and easy, not the movie now playing.


----------



## drpeter

Understood. We'll agree to differ a bit on this. I am not about to venture into ripping seams or tailoring at any level. 

I like to do things by hand too, things like repairing books, for instance. I am more confident of my skills there because of practice and experience.


----------



## IT_cyclist

In middle school home economics class, we referred to it as "Jack the Seam Ripper." Where's Jack?


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

The material looks nice.The lapels are a shade too thin for my taste, especially with the high gorge, but others may like this contemporary style. The jacket overall is a bit on the tight side and too short, for my liking, and that too is the style that is _au courant_. But I often wonder if body movements are constrained by these tight jackets, especially when buttoned. The scyes _look_ to be too low, and if they actually are, that means the jacket will pull when you move your upper arms. So altogether, I am not sure I care for this style.

Is the model wearing a sleeveless cardigan? Or is it a waistcoat or vest of some sort?

A bit of a tangent, but the waistcoat is an item of clothing that should be as snug as possible: It sits very close to the torso and it is not easy to fit properly, even if one is being made for you. Ready-made waistcoats are hit or miss, in my opinion, precisely because they need to fit each person's torso, and adjustments can distort its lines. The other consideration is that, as we lose or gain weight, the waistcoat is thrown off balance because the initial fit won't be good any more. Sometimes you'll find a belt at the back that will permit some adjustments, but the effect this has is marginal, and it can distort some of the other parts of the garment. Dodgy stuff.

All that said, a well-fitting waistcoat, whether part of a suit in the same material, or a contrasting one (tattersalls, solids), can really add dash and style to the overall image. I have a small collection of odd waistcoats that are rich in variety and colour, but only a single one that is part of a suit -- a lovely old grey flannel suit from Britches of Georgetown, likely a defunct company now.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> The material looks nice.The lapels are a shade too thin for my taste, especially with the high gorge, but others may like this contemporary style. The jacket overall is a bit on the tight side and too short, for my liking, and that too is the style that is _au courant_. But I often wonder if body movements are constrained by these tight jackets, especially when buttoned. The scyes _look_ to be too low, and if they actually are, that means the jacket will pull when you move your upper arms. So altogether, I am not sure I care for this style.
> 
> Is the model wearing a sleeveless cardigan? Or is it a waistcoat or vest of some sort?
> 
> A bit of a tangent, but the waistcoat is an item of clothing that should be as snug as possible: It sits very close to the torso and it is not easy to fit properly, even if one is being made for you. Ready-made waistcoats are hit or miss, in my opinion, precisely because they need to fit each person's torso, and adjustments can distort its lines. The other consideration is that, as we lose or gain weight, the waistcoat is thrown off balance because the initial fit won't be good any more. Sometimes you'll find a belt at the back that will permit some adjustments, but the effect this has is marginal, and it can distort some of the other parts of the garment. Dodgy stuff.
> 
> All that said, a well-fitting waistcoat, whether part of a suit in the same material, or a contrasting one (tattersalls, solids), can really add dash and style to the overall image. I have a small collection of odd vests that are rich in variety and colour, but only a single one that is part of a suit -- a lovely old grey flannel suit from Britches of Georgetown, likely a defunct company now.


Purely from memory (hence, subject to much error), the Black Label line sat between the Blue and Purple lines from a price perspective and was always a contemporary cut - as you note.

It was introduced in the early '00 before "skinny" was everywhere, but being a contemporary look, it was always slim to skinny in cut. It also tended to be more "European" or "International" in style versus Ralph's usual American / British lean.

So, it was not your typical Ralph offering. I remember, when it first came out, walking through the large Black Label section in the flagship and being impressed with the materials and quality, but the cut and style didn't work for me even though I like slim (not skinny) as slim works well for my frame.

Part of it was for the reasons you note. I distinctly remember trying on a sport coat in 40L (my usual size) that fit nicely in the shoulders, but was short and pulled funny when I moved. I can only emphasize how odd that was for me as most clothes don't pull funny on me as most clothes don't pull at all on my thin frame...ever. Also, the shoulders where "squared" off, which gave me a silhouette I didn't like.

That's it, just observations and experiences. Again, the workmanship, materials and overall quality were impressive and the "look" was "continental," so it was Ralph trying for another segment - nothing wrong with that IMO. I believe he stopped the line four or five years ago. I remember being surprised as I thought it was successful and fit nicely between the Blue and Purple lines, but as always, what do we on the outside really ever know.


----------



## drpeter

TKI67 said:


> That tweed is pretty enough I would wear it despite the darts, but the badge is just wrong on it and the premature elbow patches are silly. Now if they tucked the patches into the pocket with the extra buttons that might be nice twenty years or more later. Of course there would be that issue of where to stow them. In the sewing basket, where they would obscure needles, thread, and darning egg? In the top dresser, atop the tangle of striped watch straps and the tin of collar stays (and if you are an RL devotee, your collar bars)?


LOL, in a pinch, those elbow patches could be detached and, with a bit of elastic and a couple of holes punched in them, be converted into a Covid Mask. Double duty!


----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> I didn't watch the videos. I gave you my warning. Let me restate. I'm not interested in quick and easy. I like safe and sure. I also like by-hand stuff. Anything. I once built a small house by hand (there are pics of it on here some place ). A quirk maybe. When it comes to tailoring. which I only do for myself, I do almost everything by hand, often unnecessarily so. Pick stitching on the exterior of pant cuffs for example. You've heard about people in their 70s who try to act 40. Since my 40s I've tried to act 70. Just to get prepared. Quick and easy, not the movie now playing.


Didn't watch the videos, huh? Well that's ok, I watched both of them and now know more about using seam rippers than I ever knew there was to know. However, if you should find yourself plagued with a growing need to know how to use a seam ripper, watch the first video...it is twice as informative as is the second! LOL.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Purely from memory (hence, subject to much error), the Black Label line sat between the Blue and Purple lines from a price perspective and was always a contemporary cut - as you note.
> 
> It was introduced in the early '00 before "skinny" was everywhere, but being a contemporary look, it was always slim to skinny in cut. It also tended to be more "European" or "International" in style versus Ralph's usual American / British lean.
> 
> So, it was not your typical Ralph offering. I remember, when it first came out, walking through the large Black Label section in the flagship and being impressed with the materials and quality, but the cut and style didn't work for me even though I like slim (not skinny) as slim works well for my frame.
> 
> Part of it was for the reasons you note. I distinctly remember trying on a sport coat in 40L (my usual size) that fit nicely in the shoulders, but was short and pulled funny when I moved. I can only emphasize how odd that was for me as most clothes don't pull funny on me as most clothes don't pull at all on my thin frame...ever. Also, the shoulders where "squared" off, which gave me a silhouette I didn't like.
> 
> That's it, just observations and experiences. Again, the workmanship, materials and overall quality were impressive and the "look" was "continental," so it was Ralph trying for another segment - nothing wrong with that IMO. I believe he stopped the line four or five years ago. I remember being surprised as I thought it was successful and fit nicely between the Blue and Purple lines, but as always, what do we on the outside really ever know.


All good points. The term Black Label -- I wonder if it was lifted from a line of scotch whisky by Johnnie Walker that used to be my favourite blended whisky back in my drinking days. LOL, my current favourite is Red Label. It is Assam Tea from the Indian company called Brooke Bond and I blend it with a small amount of fine Darjeeling to create Dr Peter's Label, LOL. That's about as strong as it gets these days for me.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> Didn't watch the videos, huh? Well that's ok, I watched both of them and now know more about using seam rippers than I ever knew there was to know. However, if you should find yourself plagued with a growing need to know how to use a seam ripper, watch the first video...it is twice as informative as is the second! LOL.


I am glad you found them useful, Eagle.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> All good points. The term Black Label -- I wonder if it was lifted from a line of scotch whisky by Johnnie Walker that used to be my favourite blended whisky back in my drinking days. LOL, my current favourite is Red Label. It is Assam Tea from the Indian company called Brooke Bond and I blend it with a small amount of fine Darjeeling to create Dr Peter's Label, LOL. That's about as strong as it gets these days for me.


Three unconnected thoughts: It is nice to see someone who has developed and named their tea blend. My great grandmother always got two-thirds oolong and one-third gunpowder at Goldberg Bowen in San Francisco. She brewed it very light. I still love "Granny's Tea."

In the mid-1930s my father picked up some Harris Tweed on a Midshipmen's Cruise and had it made into a sport coat. It was a sad day when that jacket needed elbow patches in the 1980s. Tough stuff indeed! Sadly it is no longer with me. Despite its belted bi-swing back it was a nifty jacket.

I have never tasted Johnny Walker Black and likely never will, despite being a Scotch drinker. We had a bottle of JW Red that came out of a drawer at the office after hours on Fridays for just a dram. I miss the experience.


----------



## drpeter

TKI67 said:


> Three unconnected thoughts: It is nice to see someone who has developed and named their tea blend. My great grandmother always got two-thirds oolong and one-third gunpowder at Goldberg Bowen in San Francisco. She brewed it very light. I still love "Granny's Tea."
> 
> In the mid-1930s my father picked up some Harris Tweed on a Midshipmen's Cruise and had it made into a sport coat. It was a sad day when that jacket needed elbow patches in the 1980s. Tough stuff indeed! Sadly it is no longer with me. Despite its belted bi-swing back it was a nifty jacket.
> 
> I have never tasted Johnny Walker Black and likely never will, despite being a Scotch drinker. We had a bottle of JW Red that came out of a drawer at the office after hours on Fridays for just a dram. I miss the experience.


Granny's Tea sounds like it could pack a punch! Most Assam tea is actually oolong. The British first brought tea from China and decided to plant it in the Assam hills because the soil and weather was right for tea cultivation. The huge tea estates have continued, and British owners have sold their companies and estates to Indians. Even some of the major outfits in England are owned by Indians now. Perhaps a small reversal of fortune?

Your Dad's jacket sounds like something to be treasured. I am sorry to hear it went to Harris Tweed Heaven. I take it you don't much care for the Norfolk style in sports jackets.

As for scotch, although it was more affordable to drink blended scotch, I eventually acquired a taste for the classic single malts -- Glenmorangie, Laphroaig, and all sorts of obscure names. They say the best scotch whisky is the one in a stone jar that the barkeep has in the back in those Scottish pubs. If he likes the cut of your jib, he'll probably pour you a wee dram, and it will be unlike any other whisky you have ever tasted. I have not had the pleasure, never having been to Scotland. But I once had some French Armagnac that came from a dusty bottle with no label on it (some private supply, I'm sure). It was heaven in a small glass. I had two, the chance having presented itself. And as Louis Pasteur said, "Chance favours the prepared mind."


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> Granny's Tea sounds like it could pack a punch! Most Assam tea is actually oolong. The British first brought tea from China and decided to plant it in the Assam hills because the soil and weather was right for tea cultivation. The huge tea estates have continued, and British owners have sold their companies and estates to Indians. Even some of the major outfits in England are owned by Indians now. Perhaps a small reversal of fortune?
> 
> Your Dad's jacket sounds like something to be treasured. I am sorry to hear it went to Harris Tweed Heaven. I take it you don't much care for the Norfolk style in sports jackets.
> 
> As for scotch, although it was more affordable to drink blended scotch, I eventually acquired a taste for the classic single malts -- Glenmorangie, Laphroaig, and all sorts of obscure names. They say the best scotch whisky is the one in a stone jar that the barkeep has in the back in those Scottish pubs. If he likes the cut of your jib, he'll probably pour you a wee dram, and it will be unlike any other whisky you have ever tasted. I have not had the pleasure, never having been to Scotland. But I once had some French Armagnac that came from a dusty bottle with no label on it (some private supply, I'm sure). It was heaven in a small glass. I had two, the chance having presented itself. And as Louis Pasteur said, "Chance favours the prepared mind."


I liked the look of the belted back fine. It seems fitting for a tweed. However, a big part of my love for the sack is its supreme comfort.

I have spent a fair amount of time in Scotland but like most of the Scots I had more of a beer budget. Back in the states I continue to love the Islays, noting that the basic Bowmore and Ardbeg are relatively affordable but still marvelous.

Your Armagnac experience sounds absolutely wonderful.


----------



## Fading Fast

Another Black Label one:


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> Another Black Label one:
> View attachment 49454


"You're gonna look great. I guarantee it."


----------



## Old Road Dog

That model is an actual polo player; from Argentina, I believe.


----------



## Fading Fast

Old Road Dog said:


> That model is an actual polo player; from Argentina, I believe.


I can't confirm, but I do remember reading that some famous polo player also modeled for Ralph Lauren, so your observation is probably spot on.


----------



## drpeter

Ignacio "Nacho" Figueras. You can find more information on him, but he plays in the US as captain of the BlackWatch polo team.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 49490


I find myself so confused by the picture in the post above. If that poor, misguided gentleman wants to wear his Trench coat open, why not just bulkle the belt at the back of the coat? Is that a denim sport coat he is wearing? If so, why pair something so casual with what I consider to be a pretty formal shirt collar? Why is he wearing all that garbage on his left wrist? "Please don't misunderstand me, if a man wishes to wear a bracelet, so be it. However, wearing multiples of same seems to be more than just a little much? I am so confused! Indeed, Ralph is testing my patience with this one.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I find myself so confused by the picture in the post above. If that poor, misguided gentleman wants to wear his Trench coat open, why not just bulkle the belt at the back of the coat? Is that a denim sport coat he is wearing? If so, why pair something so casual with what I consider to be a pretty formal shirt collar? Why is he wearing all that garbage on his left wrist? "Please don't misunderstand me, if a man wishes to wear a bracelet, so be it. However, wearing multiples of same seems to be more than just a little much? I am so confused! Indeed, Ralph is testing my patience with this one.


Individually, I like the shirt and Trench coat and the tie is fine. I think it's either a faded-denim sport coat with jeans or, worse, a faded denim suit. I've seen them from time to time and just don't like denim as a sport coat or suit material, but every so often, a designer tries to pull one off.


----------



## Old Road Dog

I had a flashback when I first viewed the denim suit and trench coat photo above. The very first Polo/Ralph Lauren suit that I saw in person was an un-washed indigo denim number with bellows patch pockets. The back story is that a friend of mine from Chicago had just been hired by Polo as their first salesman for the Midwest. This was about 1972. I worked at a nice store that had been selling Polo ties since they became available in about 1969. We thought we would try some clothing, but the only stock that was available was a size run of these denim suits, so in they came. When these things were tailored and pressed, they were stiff as boards. I still laugh when I think about them.


----------



## Fading Fast

A couple from an email from Polo yesterday.

Other than the Ralph tic of using a tie bar on an unbuttoned OCBD collar, I like the top one.









Looks like a nice sport coat (sleeves are too narrow) - can't really see much more.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> A couple from an email from Polo yesterday.
> 
> Other than the Ralph tic of using a tie bar on an unbuttoned OCBD collar, I like the top one.
> View attachment 49525
> 
> 
> Looks like a nice sport coat (sleeves are too narrow) - can't really see much more.
> View attachment 49526


I cannot really see that the top shirt is a button down, neither can I say that I have ever seen a point collar Oxford cloth university stripe. Regardless, the whole effect is pleasing. You spotted the problem with the other one. Narrow sleeves lead to high armholes which lead to uncomfortable and restrictive jackets which lead to the demise of the sport coat and the suit which lead to general incivility and ultimately lead to the collapse of civilization. This is clearly worse than the butterfly effect!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

TKI67 said:


> I cannot really see that the top shirt is a button down, neither can I say that I have ever seen a point collar Oxford cloth university stripe. Regardless, the whole effect is pleasing. You spotted the problem with the other one. Narrow sleeves lead to high armholes which lead to uncomfortable and restrictive jackets which lead to the demise of the sport coat and the suit which lead to general incivility and ultimately lead to the collapse of civilization. This is clearly worse than the butterfly effect!


So glad to have drawn chuckles rather than a serious rejoinder!


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> A couple from an email from Polo yesterday.
> 
> Other than the Ralph tic of using a tie bar on an unbuttoned OCBD collar, I like the top one.
> View attachment 49525
> 
> 
> Looks like a nice sport coat (sleeves are too narrow) - can't really see much more.
> View attachment 49526


The Ralph reference you have selected for today is a well dressed, properly groomed young man who gives me hope for our collective sartorial futures. However, forcing him to wear that sash/scarf suggesting homage to the U of M Wolverines is a sartorial injustice to the young man Ralph has forced to wear it! LOL.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> The Ralph reference you have selected for today is a well dressed, properly groomed young man who gives me hope for our collective sartorial futures. However, forcing him to wear that sash/scarf suggesting homage to the U of M Wolverines is a sartorial injustice to the young man Ralph has forced to wear it! LOL.


Keen eye for color, Eagle. I am tired of people seeing blue and maize and saying it is blue and gold!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 49559


Perhaps not in the same manner, but I would wear that. The "look" he achieved brought back fifty-five year old memories of straggling out of the locker room after football practice. (Change the tweed for Madras to achieve the "after track workout" effect...same slovenly and beat up effect.)


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> Perhaps not in the same manner, but I would wear that. The "look" he achieved brought back fifty-five year old memories of straggling out of the locker room after football practice. (Change the tweed for Madras to achieve the "after track workout" effect...same slovenly and beat up effect.)


Agreed, with a couple of tweaks, it looks like it could have come out of "Take Ivy."


----------



## Old Road Dog

Ralph Lauren is laying off about 15% of their staff across the company; about 3700 people in all. Certainly understandable considering the current retail environment. Their challenge is to find ways to more effectively sell product on-line.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 49619


To my eyes, one of Ralphs better advertising short! Somewhere around here I have a pair of leather braces very similar to the ones pictured, But I don't think they are Ralph's.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> To my eyes, one of Ralphs better advertising short! Somewhere around here I have a pair of leather braces very similar to the ones pictured, But I don't think they are Ralph's.


I agree, but I note that the blue shirt is atop a stack of colors. Some of them I would not call Trad, even if they are fine colors for others more fashion forward than I would dare to attempt.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> To my eyes, one of Ralphs better advertising short! Somewhere around here I have a pair of leather braces very similar to the ones pictured, But I don't think they are Ralph's.


I had those braces at one point too. I think from Huntington 'cause they were a heck of a lot cheaper from them. They look really nice with more casual suits.


----------



## drpeter

In olden times, they had Albert Thurston braces with catgut ends. Are those to be found anywhere now?


----------



## Old Road Dog

Yes, a very nice ad that might be a precursor of Polo's increased marketing through various media. Brick-and-mortar stores and in-store traffic are now too scarce to convey the volume of sales needed by Ralph Lauren brands. I believe thay need to have advertising that is linked to retail stores (such as their own) instead of just serving to set a mood in the customer's mind. There is much more to be done with the Ralph Lauren web store, as well.


----------



## Old Road Dog

drpeter said:


> In olden times, they had Albert Thurston braces with catgut ends. Are those to be found anywhere now?


I doubt that Thurston is still around. Thomas Hardy in the U.K. might be a source, though.


----------



## drpeter

I thought you were doing a bit of literary joking, since Hardy is the famous novelist and poet, whom I have enjoyed reading. But then I checked, and indeed, there is a Thomas Hardy clothes company! One lives and learns, I suppose. Is it a well-known company? Or is it, as the novelist might put it_, Far from the Madding Crowd_?


----------



## Oldsarge

Old Road Dog said:


> I doubt that Thurston is still around. Thomas Hardy in the U.K. might be a source, though.


Thurston is still around but has become a bespoke purveyor and no longer sells online.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 49662


Tell me that guy in the picture above isn't wearing a beret cocked back on his head and I will tell you I like that picture. To my eye, this is one of Ralph's better sales promotion efforts!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 49671


To quote the advertisement, that is definitely a "vest in a contrasting fabric." Pair it with a very tasteful sack suit, perhaps in a Cambridge grey worsted or a khaki gabardine or maybe a navy blazer and cream slacks, 86 the sweater, and change the shirt to solid blue or ecru, and you are developing a nice riff on Chipp. I cannot name a maker other than Ralph or Chipp who would even think of making a patchwork Madras vest! If it were a time of year for sweaters, I would expect the Madras to be in the trunk with the seersucker suit, the shorts, and the swim trunks. Sometimes I wonder if Ralph has a calendar!


----------



## Old Road Dog

Do we know the origin of the above photo? While there is Polo content is this an ad for Polo? My thinking this might be a GQ or Men's Jounal feature article where the clothing is selected by an editorial staff using various sources. That could explain the mixed seaonality of thewhat is shown.


----------



## Fading Fast

Old Road Dog said:


> Do we know the origin of the above photo? While there is Polo content is this an ad for Polo? My thinking this might be a GQ or Men's Jounal feature article where the clothing is selected by an editorial staff using various sources. That could explain the mixed seaonality of thewhat is shown.


I believe you are correct. I grabbed the picture awhile back, but that sound about right. It was some or all RL stuff, but not a specific RL ad (but I'll bet there's a lot of scratch my back going on between GQ and its advertisers).


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Mr. B. Scott Robinson

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 49662


That photo must be a direct homage to Hemingway's period in Spain.

Cheers,

BSR


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:


> That photo must be a direct homage to Hemingway's period in Spain.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> BSR


Plus it is darned natty.


----------



## Old Road Dog

Is it possible to be skinny and a 44Reg. at the same time?.....or does Polo only sell suits in size 38?


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 49730


Never noticed the flap on the chest pocket, an odd detail.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> Never noticed the flap on the chest pocket, an odd detail.


It seems to be a "Ralph" thing as, while I haven't made a study of it, every time I see a Polo coat with a flap on its breast pocket, it turns out to be a RL one. Also, I've never seen a Ralph Polo coat without it. But again, that's just from casual observation.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> It seems to be a "Ralph" thing as, while I haven't made a study of it, every time I see a Polo coat with a flap on its breast pocket, it turns out to be a RL one. Also, I've never seen a Ralph Polo coat without it. But again, that's just from casual observation.


One of my idiosyncrasies is a dislike for flap pockets in general. I recall back in the mid-1980s after Brooks Brothers began making a lot of changes I shifted my suit buying to J. Press. I tried a few of their OCBDs and just couldn't embrace the flap pockets. On a polo coat I'd want to be able to shove my sunglasses in without dealing with a flap. That said, it is a very handsome coat. The nifty thing about a polo coat is the way it works with dressy or casual.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> One of my idiosyncrasies is a dislike for flap pockets in general. I recall back in the mid-1980s after Brooks Brothers began making a lot of changes I shifted my suit buying to J. Press. I tried a few of their OCBDs and just couldn't embrace the flap pockets. On a polo coat I'd want to be able to shove my sunglasses in without dealing with a flap. That said, it is a very handsome coat. The nifty thing about a polo coat is the way it works with dressy or casual.


I avoid the Press OCBD for the same reason. Also, the flap on the Polo coat's breast pocket just doesn't make sense to me, as you note, it's a pocket, if used at all, to tuck something in and take something out of quickly.

I'd love to have a Polo coat and wish I had bought one at some time in my life, but with dress-up disappearing around us, I can't justify buying another overcoat when I have several not-Polo overcoats that get very little wear. And if I bought one, I'd want a really good one and that means lots of $s.

Also, agreed, I love that it works well for both dress up and casual.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

I do not currently have an overcoat. Living in Austin in the era of climate change, the odds are good that I will never need one.


----------



## drpeter

I have a nice polo coat given to me by a friend some years ago. It fits me quite nicely. He was downsizing his closet, and gave me a couple of suits, one navy blue and one tan, the polo coat, and a black tailcoat that he had had made on a whim, LOL. He is my size, except that he is a couple of inches taller than me, so the only adjustments I needed were in the suit trousers' lengths.

The polo coat, made in the US by Eagle Clothes, is pretty standard, camel coloured and double breasted with peak lapels and seam stitching, except for one thing: There is no breast pocket. This does not bother me since I never use the breast pocket of an overcoat, and only use the breast pocket of a suit coat or sports jacket for a pocket square, once in a while.

I too agree that this coat is very versatile -- you can dress up or dress down and it will look good with either mode.


----------



## Fading Fast

Might be a dupe as it's hard to remember which pics of Ralph we've put up already. Note that his right suede patch is meaningful frayed. I'm sure it was intentional, but it look really odd to me.


----------



## drpeter

There's a kind of inverse snobbery that very rich people sometimes indulge in, and that is to appear dressed in tatters, or bedraggled old clothes. Perhaps the idea is to pretend that they can claim kinship with the very poor who cannot afford decent clothes. In the 1920s, wealthy, aristocratic students at Oxford used to pretend to have a stutter, perhaps a kind of arcane way of signalling camaraderie with those unfortunates who actually did have a stutter. There's also the related idea that old things develop a kind of rare patina with age, and somehow wearing very old and beat-up clothes can proclaim one's rarefied appreciation of this sort of patina.

However, there is a fine line between old things with patina, and old things that are simply wrecked or tattered, and it may often have to do with the intrinsic value of the item in question. Something extremely rare to begin with, perhaps a unique garment created as a one-off piece using exotic materials, could have this sort of value. I have two 18th century leatherbound volumes of Montesquieu (in old but readable French) in my personal library that are definitely worn, but for me, they are rare and therefore possess a certain beauty despite the worn condition of the leather bindings. I doubt if the rather pedestrian tweed jacket worn here by RL qualifies for that sort of rarity.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## London380sl

What a small world! I've got one of those sweater, except in yellow, and was wearing it yesterday .


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## fred johnson

London380sl said:


> What a small world! I've got one of those sweater, except in yellow, and was wearing it yesterday .


I too have that sweater only in a darker tan, I also have a similar Polo glove with just the polo player and not a patch. As an aside RL publicity told me that Polo does not make golf gloves but has had a few made from time to time for publicity reasons, somehow or other two ended up at a TJ Maxx in CT where I snagged them years ago.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

A classic duffel coat in the Gloverall style, although the latter kind are usually solid-coloured. I haven't seen many in checks or plaids. The camel-coloured version issued by the Royal Navy and called the Convoy Coat, was made famous by the image of Field Marshal Montgomery wearing one during WWII. Gloverall started making them in 1954 or so.

I have a 1950s version of the camel-coloured Monty Gloverall, in very good shape, and quite heavy. It is perfect for a cold winter day in Wisconsin. I also have a dark blue version by John Partridge with a nice tartan lining.

I wonder if the RL version is made of thick wool, or a somewhat lighter material.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 49856


Just make it longer and a solid navy or camel and make it in England and Trads will like it!


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 49856


IMHO, one of Ralph's better ads, but that toggled coat looks like a classic Gloverall coat that lost it's lower extremities in a tragic sewing accident! With an additional 12"s in length added to it's hem, that would be quite the coat.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> Just make it longer and a solid navy or camel and make it in England and Trads will like it!





eagle2250 said:


> IMHO, one of Ralph's better ads, but that toggled coat looks like a classic Gloverall coat that lost it's lower extremities in a tragic sewing accident! With an additional 12"s in length added to it's hem, that would be quite the coat.


It, too, struck me as oddly short. What I try to do when this happens as, today, so many things are "slimmed" and "shortened," is objectively decide if the new proportions work or if I'm against them just because I am used to something else.

Today's too-short sport coats and suit jackets fail, IMO, as the proportions don't work for the human body. This toggle coat, I guess, is okay even if I wish it was longer just because longer is what I'm used to.

Side note, my 5'11" girlfriend got a Gloverall for Christmas this year and we - after extensive use of the on line measurements - bought her a tall, which hit her exactly where traditional Gloveralls do. That's what we were trying to accomplish as the regular would have been too short on her. And she went for the camel color as well. It's a beautiful coat.


----------



## Fading Fast

It pains me to see the blazer treated that way.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> It pains me to see the blazer treated that way.
> View attachment 49876


If I were that lad's father, I would spank him with my vintage/old red paddle named "The Tail blazer" for treating that navy blazer so badly! LOL. If he is not yet sufficiently mature to wear more mature, adult garments properly, he should be dressed like the child that he is.


----------



## Old Road Dog

There is virtally nothing in that ad that compels me to buy anything. Perhaps it is because what is there is not only unattractively presented, but shows the same theme of blazer, khaki pants, rep tie on oxford button-down seen for decades. Perhaps it is an ad for the outlet stores. 

I believe there is a difference between classic and just plain "tired". Ralph can pull of that look with his 1970's vintage tweed sportcoats, and antique jeans. Everyone knows he arrived in a fabulously detailed sports car. The kid in the ad above rode on mass transit.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> It pains me to see the blazer treated that way.
> View attachment 49876


Back in my school days (daze) mine was stuffed in my gym bag or book bag more than occasionally.

Then there is the tiresome use of Penn colors on the repp tie.


----------



## drpeter

TKI67 said:


> Back in my school days (daze) mine was stuffed in my gym bag or book bag more than occasionally.
> 
> Then there is the tiresome use of Penn colors on the repp tie.


Interesting. The colours are identical to those in the British Guards regiment. I think the regimental stripes descend from the left side to the right ("from the heart to the sword "of the wearer, it is said, although a sword hung to the right side would be hard to draw for a right-handed soldier), whereas the Penn tie descends from the right to the left, perhaps in order not to mimic the regimental tie.


----------



## Old Road Dog

drpeter said:


> Interesting. The colours are identical to those in the British Guards regiment. I think the regimental stripes descend from the left side to the right ("from the heart to the sword "of the wearer, it is said, although a sword hung to the right side would be hard to draw for a right-handed soldier), whereas the Penn tie descends from the right to the left, perhaps in order not to mimic the regimental tie.


British regimental stripe ties are generally styled with the stripes as you say. Almost all American repp ties have the stripe running from right to left. I have no explanation for this.


----------



## Fading Fast

So, I did not watch about half of the sappy, embarrassing 1970 movie "Love Story" the other day and I did not see a few scene where uber "preppie" Oliver Barrett IV (played by Ryan O'Neil ) wears an OCBD with the collar unbuttoned.

I knew Ralph wasn't the first to do this - heck, I'm sure someone was doing it almost immediately after the shirt was first sold - but in a very stylish movie like "Love Story," you know it was done intentionally to show that OB the IV had some rebel in him. (Just a note: the clothes in the movie are Ivy heaven with only some '70s influence, even if the movie is really bad.)

So, I guess Ralph is just another designer to unbutton the OCBD's collar as we see him do frequently in his ads. That said, I did not see anyone wear an unbuttoned OCBD collar with a tie and tie bar as Ralph so loves. Although, we know that Fred Astaire used to wear the OCBD collar buttoned with a tie and tie bar well before Ralph was even born.

"Rebel preppie" Oliver Barrett IV wearing an OCBD with the collar unbuttoned in "Love Story:"
















And just for fun. Mr Astaire in an OCBD, with the collar buttoned and with a tie and tie bar:


----------



## drpeter

The late, elegant Gianni Agnelli, Italian CEO of Fiat among other things, and a famous icon in matters of dressing and style, often wore his OCBDs with collar unbuttoned, and sometimes with just one point unbuttoned while wearing it with a jacket and tie. I suspect his practice predated that of Ryan O'Neill in that movie.

https://www.lanieri.com/blog/en/giovanni-agnellis-style/


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> Interesting. The colours are identical to those in the British Guards regiment. I think the regimental stripes descend from the left side to the right ("from the heart to the sword "of the wearer, it is said, although a sword hung to the right side would be hard to draw for a right-handed soldier), whereas the Penn tie descends from the right to the left, perhaps in order not to mimic the regimental tie.


My point is, of course, not whether the tie signifies Penn or the British Guards but to question whether the wearer is a member of the British Guards or has attended Penn or another school with those colors. I'd love it if I had attended a school with the same colors as certain regiments or other schools, but I am too old to claim new colors!


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> The late, elegant Gianni Agnelli, Italian CEO of Fiat among other things, and a famous icon in matters of dressing and style, often wore his OCBDs with collar unbuttoned, and sometimes with just one point unbuttoned while wearing it with a jacket and tie. I suspect his practice predated that of Ryan O'Neill in that movie.
> 
> https://www.lanieri.com/blog/en/giovanni-agnellis-style/


Agreed, my guess is it started immediately after OCBDs started to be sold.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> So, I did not watch about half of the sappy, embarrassing 1970 movie "Love Story" the other day and I did not see a few scene where uber "preppie" Oliver Barrett IV (played by Ryan O'Neil ) wears an OCBD with the collar unbuttoned.
> 
> I knew Ralph wasn't the first to do this - heck, I'm sure someone was doing it almost immediately after the shirt was first sold - but in a very stylish movie like "Love Story," you know it was done intentionally to show that OB the IV had some rebel in him. (Just a note: the clothes in the movie are Ivy heaven with only some '70s influence, even if the movie is really bad.)
> 
> So, I guess Ralph is just another designer to unbutton the OCBD's collar as we see him do frequently in his ads. That said, I did not see anyone wear an unbuttoned OCBD collar with a tie and tie bar as Ralph so loves. Although, we know that Fred Astaire used to wear the OCBD collar buttoned with a tie and tie bar well before Ralph was even born.
> 
> "Rebel preppie" Oliver Barrett IV wearing an OCBD with the collar unbuttoned in "Love Story:"
> View attachment 49885
> View attachment 49886


Well, since you could only bear watching half of that "sappy movie" Love Story, I've got a DVD of the sequel, "Oliver's Story that I could mail to you, if you want to refine your definition of bad! Most sequels don't rise to the level of the original movie, but Oliver's Story sets a sad new standard for low.

PS: Ali MacGraw as Jennifer Cavalleri, was one of my early life fantasy love affairs. It's a good thing that I met Mrs Eagle in late 1972...or I might never have recovered from the loss of Jennifer. LOL.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 49898


This picture has wonderful colors and textures, improbably assembled, attempting to use hair as a prop to convey some misplaced irony. Each detail other than the hair and the recurring use of the RL crest, is nice, but in this case they are almost at war with each other. This is also a case of individual things I like, such as the shoes and socks, but would never buy.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Well, since you could only bear watching half of that "sappy movie" Love Story, I've got a DVD of the sequel, "Oliver's Story that I could mail to you, if you want to refine your definition of bad! Most sequels don't rise to the level of the original movie, but Oliver's Story sets a sad new standard for low.
> 
> PS: Ali MacGraw as Jennifer Cavalleri, was one of my early life fantasy love affairs. It's a good thing that I met Mrs Eagle in late 1972...or I might never have recovered from the loss of Jennifer. LOL.


"Love Story" is marginally watchable for the clothes, old-pro Ray Milland and super-cute MacGraw (have you seen her in "Goodbye Columbus?"). But "Oliver's Story" is unwatchable, as you note.



TKI67 said:


> This picture has wonderful colors and textures, improbably assembled, attempting to use hair as a prop to convey some misplaced irony. Each detail other than the hair and the recurring use of the RL crest, is nice, but in this case they are almost at war with each other. This is also a case of individual things I like, such as the shoes and socks, but would never buy.


Pretty much agree as this "fashion" shot is a mess from a normal-person point of view, but as we chat about here from time to time: fashion's gonna fashion for whatever reason as, in theory, it helps "build excitement" and "promote the brand" (so I'm told by fashion industry people).


----------



## London380sl

One of the things I've noticed with a lot of these ads is the prevalence of using dark backgrounds with dark clothing which seems odd to me as the clothes should be standing out than blending into the background. I literally cannot see where the overcoat ends and where the background starts in the above picture.

Postscript - I just looked at the above picture on my laptop and its much less dark so part of the problem is my computer monitor  .


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> Well, since you could only bear watching half of that "sappy movie" Love Story, I've got a DVD of the sequel, "Oliver's Story that I could mail to you, if you want to refine your definition of bad! Most sequels don't rise to the level of the original movie, but Oliver's Story sets a sad new standard for low.
> 
> PS: Ali MacGraw as Jennifer Cavalleri, was one of my early life fantasy love affairs. It's a good thing that I met Mrs Eagle in late 1972...or I might never have recovered from the loss of Jennifer. LOL.


As for bad sequels, have you seen _The Two Jakes_, the awful sequel to a great film _Chinatown_? It has to be up there in the list of terrible sequels.

Then there's the joke about the fellow who went to a bookshop and asked if he could buy the New Testament because he'd just read the Old Testament, and it was so frightfully good. The bookshop owner said, "You know, sequels are never as good as the original, so I'd suggest dropping the idea."


----------



## drpeter

I think the model in the picture would look just like one of the three Musketeers if outfitted in early 17th century French clothing. As those swashbuckling lads would say, "_Un pour tous et tous pour un"_


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Hard to tell if this is a summer-weight suit with an olive green poplin cloth, or a heavier worsted or flannel. But it looks good on the Argentine polo chap, even with the currently trendy tight fit, especially the trousers.

I have wondered about the reasons for men's styles and fashions in suits being cyclical. Is it that there are only so many things that can be changed from a conservative viewpoint? Tight or loose fit overall, lapel width, lapel line (straight vs convex or with a belly), darted or undarted front, flapped or jetted pockets, patch or laid-in pockets, shoulders (padded, _spalla camicia_, rope), flat front vs pleated trousers, buckles or braces vs belt, plain bottom vs cuffs. That is more or less it, as far as I can tell, for the major components that can be changed.

A designer could incorporate more basic changes and indeed this has been done in places like India, where the western suit has been married to Indian indigenous styles like the_ sherwani_, and we have rounded collar jackets, multiple buttons, a pocket square for a bit of silk and bright colours or patterns, and so forth.

Many more dramatic innovations have been tried in both design and cut within show business in India as well, not unlike in the West, but those sorts of things would never be worn in government or in business settings. Some designers in the West have also experimented with such changes, for instance, suit jackets that have a rising edge without a lapel.

Many students of men's styles, like Boyer and Flusser, have observed that changes in men's style are both minuscule and glacial in their pace. And perhaps that is as it should be. It's still interesting to speculate now and then on how styles and fashions might change in a hundred years or more -- if we are all still around, that is.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> Hard to tell if this is a summer-weight suit with an olive green poplin cloth, or a heavier worsted or flannel. But it looks good on the Argentine polo chap, even with the currently trendy tight fit, especially the trousers.
> 
> I have wondered about the reasons for men's styles and fashions in suits being cyclical. Is it that there are only so many things that can be changed from a conservative viewpoint? Tight or loose fit overall, lapel width, lapel line (straight vs convex or with a belly), darted or undarted front, flapped or jetted pockets, patch or laid-in pockets, shoulders (padded, _spalla camicia_, rope), flat front vs pleated trousers, buckles or braces vs belt, plain bottom vs cuffs. That is more or less it, as far as I can tell, for the major components that can be changed.
> 
> A designer could incorporate more basic changes and indeed this has been done in places like India, where the western suit has been married to Indian indigenous styles like the_ sherwani_, and we have rounded collar jackets, multiple buttons, a pocket square for a bit of silk and bright colours or patterns, and so forth.
> 
> Many more dramatic innovations have been tried in both design and cut within show business in India as well, not unlike in the West, but those sorts of things would never be worn in government or in business settings. Some designers in the West have also experimented with such changes, for instance, suit jackets that have a rising edge without a lapel.
> 
> Many students of men's styles, like Boyer and Flusser, have observed that changes in men's style are both minuscule and glacial in their pace. And perhaps that is as it should be. It's still interesting to speculate now and then on how styles and fashions might change in a hundred years or more -- if we are all still around, that is.


All true and fascinating. However, I find it ironic that we devote so much time (which I greatly enjoy and hope to continue) to RL on this forum, which ought to be a place where nothing about a suit should ever change. The Southwick I just bought is pretty much identical to a suit I bought at Rogers Peet in 1966, just the way It is supposed to be in my insular TNSIL world!

;0)


----------



## drpeter

I'm a little more open to new/different styles than you are, TK167. But I understand your sentiments about the TNSIL style that you love. 

Ideas about tradition can come from different sources. I maintain some of my links with my old country, India, by wearing khakis, and also by having a couple of Indian-style, closed collar suits which I had custom-made when in India some years ago. While I like the Trad style for Western suits in general (mostly J Press, in my case) I also enjoy wearing the Indian suits once in a while in a formal setting -- they look different, and they are always appreciated by others.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> I'm a little more open to new/different styles than you are, TK167. But I understand your sentiments about the TNSIL style that you love.
> 
> Ideas about tradition can come from different sources. I maintain some of my links with my old country, India, by wearing khakis, and also by having a couple of Indian-style, closed collar suits which I had custom-made when in India some years ago. While I like the Trad style for Western suits in general (mostly J Press, in my case) I also enjoy wearing the Indian suits once in a while in a formal setting -- they look different, and they are always appreciated by others.


I'll bet they are lovely. I have encountered many things from the cultures of India that I love. Of course for me, being the food oriented being I am, there are the cuisines. A good curry is, to me, the ultimate comfort food. I also love several Indian writers.


----------



## drpeter

TKI67 said:


> I'll bet they are lovely. I have encountered many things from the cultures of India that I love. Of course for me, being the food oriented being I am, there are the cuisines. A good curry is, to me, the ultimate comfort food. I also love several Indian writers.


Good to know this. I make excellent Indian food, also Cajun, Mexican and Italian. Obviously, Indian food is comfort food for me as well!

There are many good Indian writers. One of my favourite novelists is actually Sri Lankan (Tamil/Dutch) -- Michael Ondaatje.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> Good to know this. I make excellent Indian food, also Cajun, Mexican and Italian. Obviously, Indian food is comfort food for me as well!
> 
> There are many good Indian writers. One of my favourite novelists is actually Sri Lankan (Tamil/Dutch) -- Michael Ondaatje.


I'll look for him. I love Jhumpa Lahiri (forgive any butchering of spelling). Also Chitra Divakaruni.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 49979


I like her shoes. They look a lot more comfortable than his!


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 49979


I find myself impressed with this day's Ralph offering...classic blazer, saddle shoes, tennis sweater, but sitting in the grass with those white trousers on does give me pause!


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> I like her shoes. They look a lot more comfortable than his!


Love her shoes, too, and, while I agree they are less comfortable, I do like that Ralph is still showing and selling saddles for men.



eagle2250 said:


> I find myself impressed with this day's Ralph offering...classic blazer, saddle shoes, tennis sweater, but sitting in the grass with those white trousers on does give me pause!


Yes, compared to some of the "crazy" combinations and items we've seen from Ralph, this is pretty straightforward stuff. As mentioned above, I love that he still shows saddle shoes. And you are so right, those pants will not come out unscathed from their encounter with the grass.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50006


A rather handsome and fashionably, not stylishly, dressed young man...too bad he demonstrates such questionable taste in trouser designs! However, it is good to see the handsme young couple have found their way to a bench. LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> A rather handsome and fashionably, not stylishly, dressed young man...too bad he demonstrates such questionable taste in trouser designs! However, it is good to see the handsme young couple have found their way to a bench. LOL.


Away from his pants and the giant "RL" on his sweater, very classic stuff. I love, like yesterday's saddles, today's white bucks. It's nice to see Ralph trying to keep some classic footwear alive.


----------



## drpeter

They are indeed a handsome young couple, but large animals on trousers? I know small animals were occasionally featured on casual summer khakis and even surcingle belts worn by young men in the prep school mode, but it was not a style I liked.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50031


The intentional dishevelment of our young hero is certainly characteristic of Ralph, that scoundrel! Pull down the collar and button it, button the sleeve cuffs, tuck in the shirt and patch the tear on the left pocket of those jeans and he looks pretty darned good. LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> The intentional dishevelment of our young hero is certainly characteristic of Ralph, that scoundrel! Pull down the collar and button it, button the sleeve cuffs, tuck in the shirt and patch the tear on the left pocket of those jeans and he looks pretty darned good. LOL.


Ever since you, effectively, pointed out to me that Ralph "positions" the sweater to show off the belt, it bugs me every time I see it as it looks so forced.

As to the general dishevelment, I think you are right that it's become a Ralph thing as, my guess, he doesn't want to be seen as just selling "old" styles to "old" people, so, in some way, the "sloppy" collar and tucks and sleeves rolls and crazy like yesterday's "animal" pants, etc., are an intentional effort to make classic clothing look fresh and younger.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50066


The man himself does it best...if only he would put on some socks!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50031


Nice car!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> The man himself does it best...if only he would put on some socks!


I think sockless works with slippers. I love the trousers.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> Ever since you, effectively, pointed out to me that Ralph "positions" the sweater to show off the belt, it bugs me every time I see it as it looks so forced.
> 
> As to the general dishevelment, I think you are right that it's become a Ralph thing as, my guess, he doesn't want to be seen as just selling "old" styles to "old" people, so, in some way, the "sloppy" collar and tucks and sleeves rolls and crazy like yesterday's "animal" pants, etc., are an intentional effort to make classic clothing look fresh and younger.


Astute observations on the way RL sets up his shoots. I am guessing virtually all of it will rub most of this forum the wrong way. Heck most think a polo on the golf course must be tucked and shorts are marginal! (Clearly, not a crowd that would walk 18 with me in the summer in the south!)

I confess that although I generally clean up well, some of those slovenly ways have stuck with me over the years and come out occasionally, notably the shirt tucked loosely and only in front, the popped (unintentionally) collar, the unbuttoned OCBD collar worn out with a Shetland, and pervasive socklessness. However, none of these casual behaviors is for the sake of panache, only things like laziness and comfort. 🤪


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> They are indeed a handsome young couple, but large animals on trousers? I know small animals were occasionally featured on casual summer khakis and even surcingle belts worn by young men in the prep school mode, but it was not a style I liked.


If only he offered the trousers in a brightly colored poplin and had the animals embroidered!


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> Astute observations on the way RL sets up his shoots. I am guessing virtually all of it will rub most of this forum the wrong way. Heck most think a polo on the golf course must be tucked and shorts are marginal! (Clearly, not a crowd that would walk 18 with me in the summer in the south!)
> 
> I confess that although I generally clean up well, some of those slovenly ways have stuck with me over the years and come out occasionally, notably the shirt tucked loosely and only in front, the popped (unintentionally) collar, the unbuttoned OCBD collar worn out with a Shetland, and pervasive socklessness. However, none of these casual behaviors is for the sake of panache, only things like laziness and comfort. 🤪


After seeing so many men in NYC wear their shirts untucked, I'll now sometimes run a quick errand that way as I've been sitting in the apartment with it untucked and without a belt, so, what the heck, it saves time.

I felt funny the first few times I did it, but now I don't. When I look around the streets and stores, I see 90% of the men (under 70) are untucked or wearing a T-shirt or sweatshirt. Sadly, my reasonably nice chinos, OCBD (untucked) and sneakers still looks as nice/nicer than most.


----------



## drpeter

TKI67 said:


> If only he offered the trousers in a brightly colored poplin and had the animals embroidered!


Ahh, one of those prep school boys at heart!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> Ahh, one of those prep school boys at heart!


St. Stephen's and Norfolk Academy. However, pre-1967 GTH pants, especially embroidered ones, were relatively unknown. Garish Madras was confined to summer wear. Going sockless with Weejuns was very popular but not allowed in school. I think a fair amount of RL staging draws on the rebellious side of boys forced to dress in coats and ties, especially in ancient and un-air conditioned buildings.


----------



## drpeter

TKI67 said:


> I think sockless works with slippers. I love the trousers.


I have a pair of Ben Silver cords in exactly that colour. They are lovely.


----------



## drpeter

TKI67 said:


> St. Stephen's and Norfolk Academy. However, pre-1967 GTH pants, especially embroidered ones, were relatively unknown. Garish Madras was confined to summer wear. Going sockless with Weejuns was very popular but not allowed in school. I think a fair amount of RL staging draws on the rebellious side of boys forced to dress in coats and ties, especially in ancient and un-air conditioned buildings.


In my boys' school in India (not a boarding school, but founded by the English who had an inordinate fondness for public schools as a mechanism for creating a ruling class) we had uniforms for a while in the 1960s, and every student hated them. If I remember correctly, British schools like Eton long had a uniform, and many schools in the US did as well. Maybe they all still do.

I disliked regimentation then (especially in clothes) and still do, although I understand the need for some of it, especially in regiments, LOL. I would find it very hard to work for a university or a firm that had a dress code.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> In my boys' school in India (not a boarding school, but founded by the English who had an inordinate fondness for public schools as a mechanism for creating a ruling class) we had uniforms for a while in the 1960s, and every student hated them. If I remember correctly, British schools like Eton long had a uniform, and many schools in the US did as well. Maybe they all still do.
> 
> I disliked regimentation then (especially in clothes) and still do, although I understand the need for some of it, especially in regiments, LOL. I would find it very hard to work for a university or a firm that had a dress code.


It was mixed for me. There were no uniforms, but the dress codes required coats and ties. I was a naval officer's kid thrown in with a bunch of very wealthy kids. We usually shopped at the PX. My classmates were very snotty about brands and so on, and as a result I got a job in order to be able to buy Gant shirts, Reis ties, Weejuns, and so on. Going off to college in California in 1967 was such a relief!


----------



## Fading Fast

In David Marx' excellent book "Ametora: How Japan Saved American Style," he talks about how, in the '60s, a subset of Japanese high school and college kids - who all wore uniforms at school - adopted the Ivy style away from school as a form of self expression and rebellion (oh those bad kids in their OCBDs and Weejuns). 

Kidding aside, they were seen as a "concerning" group of teenagers by many in the older generation. But for those teenagers, dressing in Ivy was a hobby as they would get together on weekends, shop in Ivy stores (like VAN Jacket), hang out in their Ivy clothes and worry their parents. It's a great example of how everything is relative as, at that time, in America, Ivy represented conformity; in Japan, disobedience.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50074


.....but for the Polo photo, woven into the tie, I would have loved rather than liked the picture! Even the blazer pocket embroidery is almost tolerable. LOL.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

I just can't handle horizontal striped ties on vertically striped shirts, but the overall look is still, despite the tie, well above average.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> .....but for the Polo photo, woven into the tie, I would have loved rather than liked the picture! Even the blazer pocket embroidery is almost tolerable. LOL.


Agreed on both points. As to the blazer's shield, I think it works here because the embroidery looks legit, as if he's a member of an olympic team. I only find pocket shields odd on blazers when they are there without a reason. If they are for a club or team or association or school or something - that makes sense to me, but wearing an elaborate shield on your blazer for no reason strikes me as odd.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

I like the coat, but not the flap on the breast pocket


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> I like the coat, but not the flap on the breast pocket


From what I've read and seen, the "true" original (whatever that really means) Polo coat didn't even have a breast pocket, so as always, Ralph is adding his own touch.

It's not my favorite look, but doesn't really bother me aesthetically, but practically, a flap on the breast pocket would get in the way of how I occasionally use that pocket, which is to slip something in it for a couple of minutes to free up my hands for some task.

That said, if someone sent me a nice 40L polo coat as a gift, I'd be much appreciative.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> From what I've read and seen, the "true" original (whatever that really means) Polo coat didn't even have a breast pocket, so as always, Ralph is adding his own touch.
> 
> It's not my favorite look, but doesn't really bother me aesthetically, but practically, a flap on the breast pocket would get in the way of how I occasionally use that pocket, which is to slip something in it for a couple of minutes to free up my hands for some task.
> 
> That said, if someone sent me a nice 40L polo coat as a gift, I'd be much appreciative.


I recently picked up a nice double-breasted camel polo coat (no breast pocket), knee-length, with larger pea-coat style collar and lapels, from Goodwill. I have posted a picture of a coat that looks very close to what I have. If you check the Blues and Brags thread in this forum, you can see it.

Flaps on the breast pocket are not too problematic aesthetically for me, provided they lie really flat. With the thicker flannel of the polo coat, this is very hard to achieve. Besides, what is the point of having a flap there anyway? It is unlikely that something in there will fall out, and it is certainly not a preferred point of entry for a pickpocket, LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50140


I do believe that future pair of shell cordovan's is the most striking aspect of this days Ralph pic...LOL! Just joking, for sure. Please note there were no equines harmed in the drafting of this post.


----------



## Old Road Dog

A gelding, apparently.


----------



## London380sl

I wonder how long those white pants stayed clean? Nice outfit anyways.


----------



## drpeter

That's a lovely color -- I mean the horse, of course.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50169


The tie just does not work with that shirt, but jeez Louise that raglan shouldered, shawl collared cardigan is a must have. I'd probably suffer from heatstroke is I were to wear it in central Florida, but that's OK! 'The look is worth it.'


----------



## drpeter

Tie and shirt -- an abomination. The rest of the pieces are fine, but not in the combinations on display here. Just my two cents' worth.


----------



## Old Road Dog

Ralph must be doing a collection of motif ties like his 1970's originals (of which I have a few). Note that the width is 4"+ and the knotting area is proportionately fuller. Certainly would be a conversation starter at a cocktail party......oh. wait......we don't do those. Where do you wear a tie?


----------



## drpeter

I wear a tie and a sports jacket or blazer now and then when I have lunch or dinner with friends or colleagues. I often wear one with a sports jacket or a sweater when I travel down to Madison, and spend a day there at bookshops, and at the outstanding Memorial Library of the University of Wisconsin-Madison. (I have faculty borrowing privileges, which is extended to all faculty, even those who are emeriti, in the UW System. It is a great thing to have for someone like me).

I usually dress to please myself, so I have no problem wearing what I enjoy when I am doing things by myself, or with others. People may remark on the fact, but I say something graciously, and thank them if they compliment me. In Wisconsin, LOL, the default compliment is "You clean up real good."


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

A veritable smorgasbord of poorly coordinated colours, textures and patterns (plus what appears to be flying pheasants on ties). RL seems to have an obsession with pairing neckties and jeans which is too much of a clash for my taste. And that sports jacket looks more like a blanket hastily tailored into a coat.

One thing that is foreign to Ralph: The art of understatement. In my mind, small details go a very long way in dressing well. You can make a very effective difference with a small act of defiance or rule-breaking. Too many of those, and you get noisy dressing instead.

But perhaps it doesn't matter for headless mannikins. Reminds me, I had a girlfriend who used that word as a term of endearment, as in "Don't you think it's time for lunch, mannikins?"


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50186


The olive hued shawl collared cardigan layered under that handsome camel hued duffle coat is nice, indeed very nice. However, I fully agree with drpeter's assessment of that horse blanket sports coat...it's just got to go! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> A veritable smorgasbord of poorly coordinated colours, textures and patterns (plus what appears to be flying pheasants on ties). RL seems to have an obsession with pairing neckties and jeans which is too much of a clash for my taste. And that sports jacket looks more like a blanket hastily tailored into a coat.
> 
> One thing that is foreign to Ralph: The art of understatement. In my mind, small details go a very long way in dressing well. You can make a very effective difference with a small act of defiance or rule-breaking. Too many of those, and you get noisy dressing instead.
> 
> But perhaps it doesn't matter for headless mannikins. Reminds me, I had a girlfriend who used that word as a term of endearment, as in "Don't you think it's time for lunch, mannikins?"


Ralph, in many of his ads, throws a lot of looks and clothes and layers together all in one. Sometimes, especially for the Purple Label line, he does quieter looks, but as you note, his ads are often not about understatement.

I've also noticed that in the flagship store - inside the store, not the window - the mannequins are often less over the top and more like what a regular person would wear. Maybe, the thought is to catch your eye with all the stuff in the window, but show you how you might really wear it once you are in the store.



eagle2250 said:


> The olive hued shawl collared cardigan layered under that handsome camel hued duffle coat is nice, indeed very nice. However, I fully agree with drpeter's assessment of that horse blanket sports coat...it's just got to go! LOL.


I, too, though that shawl-collared cardigan and duffle went really, really well together. While I could quibble about this or that, I thought that entire outfit was pretty good. I agree with both of you regarding the outfit on the right.

Oh, and @drpeter, a young Robert Redford cares to differ with your opinion on jeans and ties. 















Surprisingly hard to find a good pick that showed the full outfit with the tie clearly visible, but having seen the movie, he wears this outfit - sport coat, tie, chambray shirt, sweater and jeans - for about a third of the movie.

Kidding aside, done well - like Redford does here (note all the rough textures) - I like the tie-and-jean look, but haven't worn it myself in decades to be honest.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

@drpeter nailed it on the RL penchant for overdoing it and the importance of small details. RL clearly has access to tweeds, sweater woolens, and other goods that never hit the mainstream and individually are captivating, but he can take those beautiful things and concoct a sundae with three flavors of ice cream, fudge, crushed pineapple, marshmallow cream, chopped pecans, whipped cream, a dusting of pistachios, a cherry, and, sometimes, a cocktail shrimp hanging off the side. Ironically, he is often very good with details, little things like beautiful working buttons, the braided cord he used on some lovely tan tassel loafers, and amazing stitching on everything. The glen plaid tweed jackets he finds take me back to the sixties when that sort of luxurious variety was a norm and now is serendipitously encountered but rarely.

I am in the distinct minority, but I rather like his horse blanket jackets. I could envision one with a chambray BD, some faded Levis, and a pair of snuff suede LHSs in place of the usual goat suede.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Ralph, in many of his ads, throws a lot of looks and clothes and layers together all in one. Sometimes, especially for the Purple Label line, he does quieter looks, but as you note, his ads are often not about understatement.
> 
> I've also noticed that in the flagship store - inside the store, not the window - the mannequins are often less over the top and more like what a regular person would wear. Maybe, the thought is to catch your eye with all the stuff in the window, but show you how you might really wear it once you are in the store.
> 
> I, too, though that shawl-collared cardigan and duffle went really, really well together. While I could quibble about this or that, I thought that entire outfit was pretty good. I agree with both of you regarding the outfit on the right.
> 
> Oh, and @drpeter, a young Robert Redford cares to differ with your opinion on jeans and ties.
> View attachment 50188
> View attachment 50189
> 
> Surprisingly hard to find a good pick that showed the full outfit with the tie clearly visible, but having seen the movie, he wears this outfit - sport coat, tie, chambray shirt, sweater and jeans - for about a third of the movie.
> 
> Kidding aside, done well - like Redford does here (note all the rough textures) - I like the tie-and-jean look, but haven't worn it myself in decades to be honest.


Sorry, old chap. It still does not look good to me. What's more, the colours and textures in Redford's outfit don't look well put together either. But tastes differ, and if you like the look, that's fine with me, LOL.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> Ralph, in many of his ads, throws a lot of looks and clothes and layers together all in one. Sometimes, especially for the Purple Label line, he does quieter looks, but as you note, his ads are often not about understatement.
> 
> I've also noticed that in the flagship store - inside the store, not the window - the mannequins are often less over the top and more like what a regular person would wear. Maybe, the thought is to catch your eye with all the stuff in the window, but show you how you might really wear it once you are in the store.
> 
> I, too, though that shawl-collared cardigan and duffle went really, really well together. While I could quibble about this or that, I thought that entire outfit was pretty good. I agree with both of you regarding the outfit on the right.
> 
> Oh, and @drpeter, a young Robert Redford cares to differ with your opinion on jeans and ties.
> View attachment 50188
> View attachment 50189
> 
> Surprisingly hard to find a good pick that showed the full outfit with the tie clearly visible, but having seen the movie, he wears this outfit - sport coat, tie, chambray shirt, sweater and jeans - for about a third of the movie.
> 
> Kidding aside, done well - like Redford does here (note all the rough textures) - I like the tie-and-jean look, but haven't worn it myself in decades to be honest.


He looks like that


Fading Fast said:


> Ralph, in many of his ads, throws a lot of looks and clothes and layers together all in one. Sometimes, especially for the Purple Label line, he does quieter looks, but as you note, his ads are often not about understatement.
> 
> I've also noticed that in the flagship store - inside the store, not the window - the mannequins are often less over the top and more like what a regular person would wear. Maybe, the thought is to catch your eye with all the stuff in the window, but show you how you might really wear it once you are in the store.
> 
> I, too, though that shawl-collared cardigan and duffle went really, really well together. While I could quibble about this or that, I thought that entire outfit was pretty good. I agree with both of you regarding the outfit on the right.
> 
> Oh, and @drpeter, a young Robert Redford cares to differ with your opinion on jeans and ties.
> View attachment 50188
> View attachment 50189
> 
> Surprisingly hard to find a good pick that showed the full outfit with the tie clearly visible, but having seen the movie, he wears this outfit - sport coat, tie, chambray shirt, sweater and jeans - for about a third of the movie.
> 
> Kidding aside, done well - like Redford does here (note all the rough textures) - I like the tie-and-jean look, but haven't worn it myself in decades to be honest.


He looks like that prof who had to wear a coat and tie because they all did but also wanted to look cool and approachable, sort of like Donald Sutherland in Animal House. Ironically the profs who didn't try to straddle the dying tweed culture and the nascent denim culture but picked one camp or the other came across as far more authentic.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Now this one works for me, with one possible exception, the narrow legs of the trousers! But that is understandable, since it is a bow to current fashion, which clothing manufacturers are, to some extent, compelled to heed.

The old-fashioned club collar is a nice touch, and in a sense it balances the whole outfit, partly because the narrow trousers are also a throw-back to 1960s style, or even earlier, to the tight-fitting trousers or breeches of the Edwardian past. The yellow cardigan/waistcoat pulls everything together, and that is a surprising and inspired touch. The one large windowpane visible on the jacket is the only pattern -- the rest are solids, in colours that complement one another. And the brown oxford lace-ups are perfect for the colours in the clothes. Nothing clashes, everything is in harmony.

This is a good one. Advantage Ralph.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Ralph, in many of his ads, throws a lot of looks and clothes and layers together all in one. Sometimes, especially for the Purple Label line, he does quieter looks, but as you note, his ads are often not about understatement.
> 
> I've also noticed that in the flagship store - inside the store, not the window - the mannequins are often less over the top and more like what a regular person would wear. Maybe, the thought is to catch your eye with all the stuff in the window, but show you how you might really wear it once you are in the store.
> 
> I, too, though that shawl-collared cardigan and duffle went really, really well together. While I could quibble about this or that, I thought that entire outfit was pretty good. I agree with both of you regarding the outfit on the right.
> 
> Oh, and @drpeter, a young Robert Redford cares to differ with your opinion on jeans and ties.
> View attachment 50188
> View attachment 50189
> 
> Surprisingly hard to find a good pick that showed the full outfit with the tie clearly visible, but having seen the movie, he wears this outfit - sport coat, tie, chambray shirt, sweater and jeans - for about a third of the movie.
> 
> Kidding aside, done well - like Redford does here (note all the rough textures) - I like the tie-and-jean look, but haven't worn it myself in decades to be honest.


Are those shots from "Three Day of The Condor?" I think so.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Are those shots from "Day of The Condor?" I think so.


Yes, you are spot on it's from "Three Days of the Condor." Stupid me failed to note that.

I've been thinking about all the comments around ties, tweeds and jeans in this thread recently and wonder if I like the combination because I grew up in the '70s and saw it as a much cooler look than the loud colors and garish styles of that time that, even as a kid, I didn't like.

Something in me, way before I understood (literally) anything about "Ivy" or "Trad" or "classic," liked the classic looks I saw on TV in all the old movies I watched as a kid. Hence, when someone like Redford wore something closer to those looks than a polyester suit with a loud shirt, it looked great to me.

I still like the look to this day, but as noted, haven't worn it in decades. Part of that is because a tie in the '70s was still quite common and still carried some currency. So dressing as Redford did might have made sense in that moment (@TKI67 makes a strong argument against this point), but today, a tie and jeans would mean nothing and not really make much sense.

My guess, it's just a tick of mine from the era in which I was raised.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> Now this one works for me, with one possible exception, the narrow legs of the trousers! But that is understandable, since it is a bow to current fashion, which clothing manufacturers are, to some extent, compelled to heed.
> 
> The old-fashioned club collar is a nice touch, and in a sense it balances the whole outfit, partly because the narrow trousers are also a throw-back to 1960s style, or even earlier, to the tight-fitting trousers or breeches of the Edwardian past. The yellow cardigan/waistcoat pulls everything together, and that is a surprising and inspired touch. The one large windowpane visible on the jacket is the only pattern -- the rest are solids, in colours that complement one another. And the brown oxford lace-ups are perfect for the colours in the clothes. Nothing clashes, everything is in harmony.
> 
> This is a good one. Advantage Ralph.


A pretty perfect critique.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> Are those shots from "Three Day of The Condor?" I think so.


Yes, I recognized it right away. Very good film, very well done. Max von Sydow as the assassin was most impressive, as was Faye Dunaway. Redford was good too.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Yes, I recognized it right away. Very good film, very well done. Max von Sydow as the assassin was most impressive, as was Faye Dunaway. Redford was good too.


Agreed on the movie and on Max von Sydow. My comments on the movie here #26817 as I hadn't yet started posting movie comments at AAAC back then.


----------



## Fading Fast

Don't know that it's Ralph, but it has several Ralph elements, but then again, something feels off versus true Ralph.


----------



## drpeter

I think the one element that is unusual here is the red (Moleskin?) notebook. I have not seen this item in an RL image, although my familiarity with these images is limited. Just a guess, I could be wrong.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50263


Only Ralph could convince us to pay so much for a rig that looks as if the components were just rescued from the locala Goodwill store! Only the sweater and possibly the pink hued OCBD are worth salvaging in my book. Sorry, but this one really crosses a line that brings out the worst in me. LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Only Ralph could convince us to pay so much for a rig that looks as if the components were just rescued from the locala Goodwill store! Only the sweater and possibly the pink hued OCBD are worth salvaging in my book. Sorry, but this one really crosses a line that brings out the worst in me. LOL.


I agree as the sweater and OCBD are the two items I like. The jacket isn't my thing, but I get that rowing blazers are a thing. However, that one is so short it looks undersized to my eye. Also, even though rowing blazers have a genuine history, who really wears them, and where do they wear them, today?

I guess there's a niche of old-line money that might still wear them, but who else does? It might have already passed - I'm never up on this stuff - but rowing blazers seemed to be a thing a few years ago with several companies making them, yet I never saw them worn by anyone.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> I think the one element that is unusual here is the red (Moleskin?) notebook. I have not seen this item in an RL image, although my familiarity with these images is limited. Just a guess, I could be wrong.


It seems to me to be the sort of prop one would find in an RL advert. It looks fully RL to me.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> Only Ralph could convince us to pay so much for a rig that looks as if the components were just rescued from the locala Goodwill store! Only the sweater and possibly the pink hued OCBD are worth salvaging in my book. Sorry, but this one really crosses a line that brings out the worst in me. LOL.


LOL, the local Goodwills I frequent tend to have clothes in much better condition than the ones shown here.

I think that in matters of clothing, there has always been a kind of inverse snobbery associated with beat-up, or faded or damaged clothing. I think we have had comments on this aspect of dressing from members here (including myself). I read somewhere recently -- perhaps here in this forum -- about students in prep schools sanding down the collars of their OCBDs to achieve a frayed look. This is similar to shoe manufacturers darkening parts of shoes, especially the toecaps, to achieve an antique look artificially, or jeans makers selling new jeans that are ripped.

On the one hand, good patina, achieved through long use, means something, especially in clothing that is of good quality to begin with; however, there is a fine line between patina and grubbiness!


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I agree as the sweater and OCBD are the two items I like. The jacket isn't my thing, but I get that rowing blazers are a thing. However, that one is so short it looks undersized to my eye. Also, even though rowing blazers have a genuine history, who really wears them, and where do they wear them, today?
> 
> I guess there's a niche of old-line money that might still wear them, but who else does? It might have already passed - I'm never up on this stuff - but rowing blazers seemed to be a thing a few years ago with several companies making them, yet I never saw them worn by anyone.


I think it is yet another consequence of the American adoration of various aspects of English life. If I recall correctly, rowing blazers were a part of the early 20th century boat races at universities like Oxford and Cambridge. Brightly coloured and striped blazers, white ducks and straw boaters were usually parts of a costume that was commonly seen on young men who were either part of rowing teams, or part of their audience at races. Perhaps the same practices existed in East Coast Ivies and prep schools.

I can't recall seeing these kinds of blazers out of the context of rowing events, whether in England or the US. How many of us encounter a man in such a blazer on the streets? We do encounter them in RL adverts, but that's another story!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> LOL, the local Goodwills I frequent tend to have clothes in much better condition than the ones shown here.
> 
> I think that in matters of clothing, there has always been a kind of inverse snobbery associated with beat-up, or faded or damaged clothing. I think we have had comments on this aspect of dressing from members here (including myself). I read somewhere recently -- perhaps here in this forum -- about students in prep schools sanding down the collars of their OCBDs to achieve a frayed look. This is similar to shoe manufacturers darkening parts of shoes, especially the toecaps, to achieve an antique look artificially, or jeans makers selling new jeans that are ripped.
> 
> On the one hand, good patina, achieved through long use, means something, especially in clothing that is of good quality to begin with; however, there is a fine line between patina and grubbiness!


Those fine lines are getting harder and harder to discern. Difficult questions such as "Is it time to turn the collar on my blue OCBD," "Is it time to trim the frayed ends on the cuffs of my khakis," "Is it time to shine my LHSs and think about having them re-soled?" are now all answered by, "Nah, I'll just pull on some shorts and a Tee-shirt!"

--A COVID19 convert


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> I think it is yet another consequence of the American adoration of various aspects of English life. If I recall correctly, rowing blazers were a part of the early 20th century boat races at universities like Oxford and Cambridge. Brightly coloured and striped blazers, white ducks and straw boaters were usually parts of a costume that was commonly seen on young men who were either part of rowing teams, or part of their audience at races. Perhaps the same practices existed in East Coast Ivies and prep schools.
> 
> I can't recall seeing these kinds of blazers out of the context of rowing.events, whether in England or the US. How many of us encounter a man in such a blazer on the streets? We do encounter them in RL adverts, but that's another story!


I grew up in east coast prep schools in the Golden Era of prep (all of the 1950s and 1960s until 1967 except for a few years in California) and NEVER saw a rowing blazer worn anywhere, even by the guys on the crew team. Ditto for long white trousers and tennis sweaters. I think that to the extent those were ever a real choice, it was pre-WW2 and across the ocean. To me they are as affected as ascots and smoking jackets. Any guy who showed up in any of those things would have been hounded mercilessly.

.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> I think it is yet another consequence of the American adoration of various aspects of English life. If I recall correctly, rowing blazers were a part of the early 20th century boat races at universities like Oxford and Cambridge. Brightly coloured and striped blazers, white ducks and straw boaters were usually parts of a costume that was commonly seen on young men who were either part of rowing teams, or part of their audience at races. Perhaps the same practices existed in East Coast Ivies and prep schools.
> 
> I can't recall seeing these kinds of blazers out of the context of rowing.events, whether in England or the US. How many of us encounter a man in such a blazer on the streets? We do encounter them in RL adverts, but that's another story!


That's the thing I don't understand as they are making the clothes. I remember seeing rows (ha-ha) of them in the stores several years ago. And not only from Ralph, but other clothing companies as well. As noted, they seemed to have had a moment a few years back. But even in NYC, where I see a lot of fashion and styles, I can't recall ever seeing a rowing blazer being worn. Did they sell them? To whom? If not, that had to be a hit to the old P&L statement. Some of this fashion business-model stuff escapes me.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50286


What can ons say? His date is a real beauty, but still a dog! LOL.  (Incoming?)


----------



## Old Road Dog

That could be my English Springer spaniel, Rudy. He won't stay off of the furniture either.


----------



## drpeter

It's very clever, the width and size of the man's lapels match the size of the dog's ears. There's probably some recondite and deep meaning in all of this that RL is trying to convey.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Why is he looking up? It is an odd shot.


----------



## drpeter

Well, the dog is looking in that general direction too! Maybe there was a cameraman there who dropped something. Maybe someone opened a nice can of special dog food for special dogs with big, floppy ears.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

I am not buying it. This is how my guys react to pills in peanut butter or cream cheese, and they have very floppy ears. His look reminded me of movies like The Bishop's Wife, having heavenly visions in front of the mantel







or a painting.


----------



## London380sl

I rowed at university in the late seventies - early 80's both in the east and west and I never saw anybody wearing a boating blazer either in Canada or the U.S.. The closest we came were rugby shirts for training in the fall. 

I'm wondering if this ad is directed to a U.K. audience? They seem to be more common over there.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> I am not buying it. This is how my guys react to pills in peanut butter or cream cheese, and they have very floppy ears. His look reminded me of movies like The Bishop's Wife, having heavenly visions in front of the mantel
> View attachment 50293
> or a painting.


Queenie, yup, that's her name, wanted me to remind you that there actually was a dog in the movie. That's all, she just wanted to say hi as it was her best role.











London380sl said:


> I rowed at university in the late seventies - early 80's both in the east and west and I never saw anybody wearing a boating blazer either in Canada or the U.S.. The closest we came were rugby shirts for training in the fall.
> 
> I'm wondering if this ad is directed to a U.K. audience? They seem to be more common over there.


That makes sense. Can any of our UK members possibly confirm? That said, they still stuffed them into the US stores a few years back. I wonder if they shipped them over to the UK after they didn't sell here?


----------



## Fading Fast

"The Bishop's Wife" and "Holiday Affair" are my two favorites, but enjoy "Christmas in Connecticut" a lot too. And a lot of good clothing in all three.


----------



## Fading Fast

Cross post from the Tweed thread. The pic's label implied Ralph but it wasn't clear. Looks pretty Ralphy to me, but not confirmed.


----------



## drpeter

Nice tie! I have a whole collection of bow ties, and the diamond point is my favourite. I agree, this one looks quite Ralphy.


----------



## Old Road Dog

My vote on the above is "Not Ralph", but tasty, for sure.


----------



## London380sl

It's got a light background so "Not Ralph" but still great looking.


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Old Road Dog

Probably = $10. / cup


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50332


The one in the foreground is nice. The tie with the grey suit is a tour de farce. The neat on the rack to the mannequin's left would have been a better choice.


----------



## eagle2250

Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 50329


PRL Coffee...now that's a Ralph product I could 'sink my teeth into.' Perhaps I should come up with another phrase to express myself, as that would be a strong cup of Joe! LOL.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

TKI67 said:


> The one in the foreground is nice. The tie with the grey suit is a tour de farce. The neat on the rack to the mannequin's left would have been a better choice.


As I typed this I had a question. If there is only a torso, is it still a mannequin? Is there some other term for a pair of shoulders and a lopped off neck atop a carved pole?


----------



## drpeter

TKI67 said:


> The one in the foreground is nice. The tie with the grey suit is a tour de farce. The neat on the rack to the mannequin's left would have been a better choice.


I love it! "Tour de farce". Well said.


----------



## drpeter

TKI67 said:


> As I typed this I had a question. If there is only a torso, is it still a mannequin? Is there some other term for a pair of shoulders and a lopped off neck atop a carved pole?


Torsoquin? Demiquin? Half-a-Man-aquin?


----------



## Old Road Dog

In men's retail, we never referred to display forms (torsos) as mannequins. Not saying that is a rule; its just that a mannequin is usually a full (perhaps headless) form, not often used in menswear stores.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Old Road Dog said:


> In men's retail, we never referred to display forms (torsos) as mannequins. Not saying that is a rule; its just that a mannequin is usually a full (perhaps headless) form, not often used in menswear stores.


So what did you call them? I never encountered the issue because the only men's clothing store I worked in had none, although we did have a wooden cash drawer!


----------



## Charles Dana

TKI67 said:


> As I typed this I had a question. If there is only a torso, is it still a mannequin? Is there some other term for a pair of shoulders and a lopped off neck atop a carved pole?


There are some permanent residents of San Quentin who would probably be able to give you the correct terminology.


----------



## Old Road Dog

TKI67 said:


> So what did you call them? I never encountered the issue because the only men's clothing store I worked in had none, although we did have a wooden cash drawer!


The owner and I did the window trims on Sunday afternoons (the store was closed). He referred to the clothing display fixtures a "forms". They were just like the ones Polo uses in their stores; and often pictured here. The sleeves were filled by a flat pad that pined to the form. No head, of course, so we often put a piece of Bemberg coat lining over the neck. Trims (displays) are a minor art form. You don't just stick a bunch of merchandise in a window. There was always three areas of of interest that flowed through the expanse of the window. There would typically be two clothing forms and then a small piece of wood furniture to hold rolled up neckwear or cufflinks and then shoes as a filler. Polo mallets were handy and trophies and cufflinks or toiletries could be added for bling. Ties would sometimes get sunfaded and had to be disposed of.

When I was involved with Polo I saw their display team work several times. One of them was Joseph Abboud ( before he became a designer but after his stint at Louis, Boston). He was a good trimmer. Their props were bought by a outside team from Oklahoma who had pickers to buy old luggage and sports gear that was used in store windows.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

It looks as though this lad was painting his house (maybe doing that white/cream wall behind him) and then decided to dress up for an outing of the Ralph Lauren Tweed Jacket Society. Notice the other fellow seated next to him wearing the identical jacket, but with tennis shorts.

I don't think I have seen actual crests on jackets other than the traditional navy blazer. It may be the custom, though, in Lauren Land.

The practice of dressing up the top half of one's body while dressing down the bottom half simply does not work for me. I understand the devil-may-care insouciance of combining formal and informal items of clothing in creative ways (a barathea dinner jacket with rough khakis or faded jeans, for instance) and, in the right hands, the look may be quite attractive. But a certain feel for colours and textures, and a well-honed aesthetic sense are pre-requisites for an effective deployment of this strategy. Unfortunately, RL's advertising department seems to possess neither, and so produces these clashes of clothing. I'm sure it is successful in selling clothes, else it would not be seen so frequently.


----------



## Fading Fast

I'd need to see the sport coat in person to really know it's texture to say if it can hold up to jeans, but either way, the jeans should not be paint splattered. While I admit to being a fan of a sport coat with jeans, the look requires the right sport coat (heavy texture, rough hewn, etc.) and the right jeans (properly fitted and not with paint splatters or other such affectations). Also, specific to the pic, the vest is wrong as it's too traditional and "smooth" for the sport coat-jeans outfit. A Fair Isle or similar such vest would have worked much better. I thought the saddles were the right level of informality for the rest of the outfit.


----------



## London380sl

Throw away the paint splattered jeans and substitute with a pair of black or blue slacks and you would have a pretty spiffy looking outfit. 
It would also work with a nice pair of dark serge jeans but I could never understand why somebody would pair jeans with a tie.

At least he is better dressed than his (cut off) compatriot who looks to be wearing the same jacket but with shorts. What's with droopy tube socks?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

My only issues with this outfit are the crest on the tweed, the "too close" color of the vest, the paint splattered dungarees (not even real jeans!), the odd fabric of the shirt (borrowed from grandfather?), the pairing of white saddle shoes with tweed (accentuating the questionable pairing by going sockless), and the too narrow tie. I like the watch and strap! Too bad the guy beside him wasn't better cropped.


----------



## Old Road Dog

That leather wing chair might have fared better had shod feet not been put on it.


----------



## Fading Fast

Ralph 2018 fashion show. I've owned a version of that shirt and I own that belt buckle.









2015 fashion show


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> Ralph 2018 fashion show. I've owned a version of that shirt and I own that belt buckle.
> View attachment 50395
> 
> 
> 2015 fashion show
> View attachment 50396


A most unusual collar on the lower one, accentuated by the thin knot on the tie. However, all in all, a nice look. The upper one actually has more elements that appeal to me, espresso especially the shirt and vest. I would have used lighter shoes, slip-ons, if going sockless. To me, the trousers are somewhat casual (they look like white five pockets), and I have never liked lace up shoes other than things like camp bluchers with casual trousers. I realize from photos others post that that may well be a minority view.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Ralph 2018 fashion show. I've owned a version of that shirt and I own that belt buckle.
> View attachment 50395
> 
> 
> 2015 fashion show
> View attachment 50396


Looking at those two photos, Ralph provides a litany of great looking garments for us to work with in assembling a really great rig, but then he just throws them together with such careless abandon, squandering a sartorial opportunity for excellence. First, when wearing a coat and a tie, put on some socks. Second, keep your hands out of your pockets. Third, button your buttons and zip your zippers and finally if you want to put them in an M-65 field jacket, do it, but don't put then in an OD hued replica, adorned with stenciled in rank insignia and fake unit patches. Doing so makes your customers look a bit foolish. Just my opinion(s)!


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> A most unusual collar on the lower one, accentuated by the thin knot on the tie. However, all in all, a nice look. The upper one actually has more elements that appeal to me, espresso especially the shirt and vest. I would have used lighter shoes, slip-ons, if going sockless. To me, the trousers are somewhat casual (they look like white five pockets), and I have never liked lace up shoes other than things like camp bluchers with casual trousers. I realize from photos others post that that may well be a minority view.





eagle2250 said:


> Looking at those two photos, Ralph provides a litany of great looking garments for us to work with in assembling a really great rig, but then he just throws them together with such careless abandon, squandering a sartorial opportunity for excellence. First, when wearing a coat and a tie, put on some socks. Second, keep your hands out of your pockets. Third, button your buttons and zip your zippers and finally if you want to put them in an M-65 field jacket, do it, but don't put then in an OD hued replica, adorned with stenciled in rank insignia and fake unit patches. Doing so makes your customers look a bit foolish. Just my opinion(s)!


These "fashion/runway" outfits are always and intentionally out there as, for whatever reason, that's what fashion does. The companies don't expect the average buyer to wear the clothes this way, but - as all three of us have done in this discussion - to note individual items they like. I guess it kinda works.

Having never served, but having great respect for people who do and have (like @eagle2250), I would never wear something that made it appear I had served. There is a line as many military styles have made it into the mainstream: I have no issue wearing a military-like item as long as it's clear it's just a civilian variation. I avoid anything that gives the impression I served; so fake insignias, etc. are out for me.

My girlfriend's father has given me many of his navy items that my girlfriend and I both treasure, but I would never wear one in a way that implies I served.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Having never served, but having great respect for people who do and have (like @eagle2250), I would never wear something that made it appear I had served. There is a line as many military styles have made it into the mainstream: I have no issue wearing a military-like item as long as it's clear it's just a civilian variation. I avoid anything that gives the impression I served; so fake insignias, etc. are out for me.


I agree entirely. This has been one of my concerns. I have a collection of US military uniform jackets, as well as field jackets like the M-41, M-53 and M-65. I am extremely careful about wearing uniform items since I was never part of the US Forces.

The M-series field jackets, without any campaign ribbons, decorations, or other insignia, are OK for civilians to wear, as far as I know -- so I wear them with respect. If there is a regimental patch left on, I would personally hesitate to wear it in public, although I have seen such jackets worn by civilians many times (of course, they could have been former members of the regiment, although I rather doubt it). None of my M-series jackets have such patches, although one does have a dark area where there used to be a name patch that was removed.

As for the uniform jackets that are part of standard military dress uniforms (the kind worn with a jacket or tie, or the closed-collar blue Marine dress jackets), I admire them and keep them well-cared for on hangers, but do not wear them in public. Even devoid of any insignia, patches, ribbons or other such items, I feel hesitant about wearing them.

The two exceptions are the surplus US Navy issue pea coat I have long had, and the USAF staff sergeant's coat I acquired last week These have no decorations or insignia, although the brass buttons have the US Navy or USAF emblems on them. I do wear the pea coat in public, and I have had no negative comments about this, even from friends who actually served in the US Navy. I imagine it would be similar when I wear the USAF coat.

I did do National Service in India (a paramilitary outfit called the NCC, a feeder unit for the Officer Corps of the Indian Military, somewhat like our ROTC), so I would perhaps be a bit more entitled to wear one of the NCC uniform items -- but I never kept any of those, they were from a long time ago. Because my instructors were Gurkha regiment officers and NCOs, I do wear a Gurkha Regiment tie on occasion with civilian attire to show my respect and admiration for the Gurkhas, who are among the finest soldiers in the world. I don't think they would object, LOL.


----------



## Oldsarge

Back in the '60's, surplus military uniform jackets were the height of fashion among my college crowd. And I still have my old OD field jacket that I wear as a shooting/hunting coat. It's an incredibly intelligent design for its purpose.


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> Back in the '60's, surplus military uniform jackets were the height of fashion among my college crowd. And I still have my old OD field jacket that I wear as a shooting/hunting coat. It's an incredibly intelligent design for its purpose.


Sarge, by uniform jackets, do you mean the olive green field jackets (M-65 etc), which was very popular in the seventies too? Or do you mean the more formal coats with four buttons and four pockets, the kind worn with a shirt and tie. Were these latter coats as popular among civilians too?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

The talk of uniforms got me to remembering an item my father had, a navy blue doeskin vest with seven small officer's buttons. It is gone in history, but I wish I had come across it and saved it. There was a period, long long ago, when the Navy allowed items in an officer's wardrobe that it jettisoned probably seventy years ago or more. I also remember my grandfather's frock coat. That was simply beyond cool in my memory. My uniforms were lovely but hardly worth saving.


----------



## Oldsarge

drpeter said:


> Sarge, by uniform jackets, do you mean the olive green field jackets (M-65 etc), which was very popular in the seventies too? Or do you mean the more formal coats with four buttons and four pockets, the kind worn with a shirt and tie. Were these latter coats as popular among civilians too?


LOL by the 70's I was wearing my M-65 by order, not by choice. The other gem that a friend of mine had was a formal Air Force officers' wool greatcoat. He was about 6'4" and finding things that fit in thrift stores was a challenge but when he came across that item it kept him warm until graduation. I don't recall any civilians wearing the dress greens unless they were homeless and somewhat desperate.


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> LOL by the 70's I was wearing my M-65 by order, not by choice. The other gem that a friend of mine had was a formal Air Force officers' wool greatcoat. He was about 6'4" and finding things that fit in thrift stores was a challenge but when he came across that item it kept him warm until graduation. I don't recall any civilians wearing the dress greens unless they were homeless and somewhat desperate.


Understood. Thank you.

Not sure if you saw my post last Saturday about the USAF staff sergeant's coat that I scored from an antique shop on Brags and Blues. I also found a picture that shows a coat pretty much identical to the one I found. It's a nice fit and definitely warm since it is made out of thick flannel. Best of all, I love the color.

Wearing the dress greens over a shirt or polo shirt and khakis looks terrific, IMHO. But I would worry about crossing a line, in terms of respect for the uniform.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

A nice-looking assemblage, for once!


----------



## Fading Fast

Two from a Ralph email from yesterday:


----------



## Old Road Dog

That is the trouser Ralph used in the beginning, and it established pleats as the standard for menswear for two decades. Early models had D-ring side tabs, later replaced by button tabs, but invariably, forward pleats and on-seam pockets.


----------



## drpeter

I remember wearing cotton drill shorts constructed along similar lines when I was a schoolboy in the fifties. Forward pleats and side-tabs which had D-ring buckles that were removable.

The buckles worked in an interesting way: One strap with a button on the inside and a buttonhole at the end would take the D-ring (with an inside sawtooth edge) and hold it in place. The other strap would be slid into the D-ring and locked in place on the sawtooth end of the buckle, and its tip would be slid back into a holding bar on the buckle. This meant that the buckles could be taken out before the shorts were laundered.


----------



## Fading Fast

Not sure if it's Polo or not.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Not sure if it's Polo or not.
> View attachment 50523


Regardless of who is responsible for that photo, I'm not a fan of the pinned collar (as it is too formal for the rest of the rig) and I do so wish the photographer would have told the guy to get his fist out of that pocket so that his trouser legs would appear cuffed at the right length! However, I do like the sweater, the cords the overcoat and the shoes, Nuff said


----------



## Old Road Dog

Not sure those are cuffs as much as "roll-ups".


----------



## Fading Fast

From an overnight email from Ralph:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> From an overnight email from Ralph:
> View attachment 50579


I rather like that leather field jacket and everything esle about the rig, except those 'rat eaten' jeans! Just sayin....


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50613


Nice jackets, nice ties and a nice vest...great looks for college age gentlemen, but the most haunting aspect of the picture above is the disinterested, detached look on the faces of those young men. It is interesting to note that when Ralph takes a picture of himself, he always seems to be sporting a more involved, animated facial expression, but when others are pictured, as in the picture above, we get that disinterested, detached look. I wonder why?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> Nice jackets, nice ties and a nice vest...great looks for college age gentlemen, but the most haunting aspect of the picture above is the disinterested, detached look on the faces of those young men. It is interesting to note that when Ralph takes a picture of himself, he always seems to be sporting a more involved, animated facial expression, but when others are pictured, as in the picture above, we get that disinterested, detached look. I wonder why?


Maybe they were prompted by photographers more used to capturing "heroin chic."


----------



## drpeter

I think many young models have, for years now, cultivated an expression that displays a lack of interest in whatever it is that is going on with them or around them. It is a couldn't-care-less attitude that they are either affecting, or actually feeling. Perhaps this conceit is intentional, so that the effect conveys a sense of being above the fray, in a rarefied space all by themselves. It is quite the opposite of earnestness or engagement. Perhaps the belief here is that this disinterested look will be found attractive by viewers. Maybe we should ask the models or the photographers about this!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Nice jackets, nice ties and a nice vest...great looks for college age gentlemen, but the most haunting aspect of the picture above is the disinterested, detached look on the faces of those young men. It is interesting to note that when Ralph takes a picture of himself, he always seems to be sporting a more involved, animated facial expression, but when others are pictured, as in the picture above, we get that disinterested, detached look. I wonder why?





TKI67 said:


> Maybe they were prompted by photographers more used to capturing "heroin chic."





drpeter said:


> I think many young models have, for years now, cultivated an expression that displays a lack of interest in whatever it is that is going on with them or around them. It is a couldn't-care-less attitude that they are either affecting, or actually feeling. Perhaps this conceit is intentional, so that the effect conveys a sense of being above the fray, in a rarefied space all by themselves. It is quite the opposite of earnestness or engagement. Perhaps the belief here is that this disinterested look will be found attractive by viewers. Maybe we should ask the models or the photographers about this!


Sadly, that is a common look across the fashion industry. Snarky, bored, disengage, disaffected or as Eagle aptly described it, disinterested or detached, it speaks to something in our times. For comparison, think about all the historic pics and illustrations we put up in other threads - you almost never see that look in those.


----------



## London380sl

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50466


This outfit reminds me of what Armie Hammer wears in "Rebecca"


----------



## Fading Fast

London380sl said:


> This outfit reminds me of what Armie Hammer wears in "Rebecca"
> View attachment 50616


Excellent catch. I'm about a third of the way through that movie and missed the connect you made.

Some really neat period clothes and details, but the story was handled much better in the original (at least in the part I've seen so far).


----------



## drpeter

Is this a remake of the old version by Hitchcock?


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Is this a remake of the old version by Hitchcock?


Yes. exactly.


----------



## London380sl

I enjoyed watching it but I haven't seen the 1940 version. Great period costumes.

If you're looking for a good show on Netflix watch "Queens Gambit". Somehow they have made chess tournaments sexy and exciting.


----------



## Fading Fast

London380sl said:


> I enjoyed watching it but I haven't seen the 1940 version. Great period costumes.
> 
> If you're looking for a good show on Netflix watch "Queens Gambit". Somehow they have made chess tournaments sexy and exciting.


A few episodes in and enjoying it so far.


----------



## eagle2250

London380sl said:


> I enjoyed watching it but I haven't seen the 1940 version. Great period costumes.
> 
> If you're looking for a good show on Netflix watch "Queens Gambit". Somehow they have made chess tournaments sexy and exciting.


"Chess tournaments sexy and exciting?" Should we consider that to be film making or should we think it to be a miracle? LOL.  I will try to catch an episode or two of "Queens Gambit" on Netflix. Thanks for the suggestion!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> "Chess tournaments sexy and exciting?" Should we consider that to be film making or should we think it to be a miracle? LOL.  I will try to catch an episode or two of "Queens Gambit" on Netflix. Thanks for the suggestion!


Well, one of the sexiest scenes ever filmed was the chess scene in The Thomas Crown Affair.


----------



## drpeter

Which version? The one directed by Norman Jewison, with Steve McQueen and Faye Dunaway, or the one directed by John McTiernan, with Pierce Brosnan and Rene Russo?


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Old Road Dog

eagle2250 said:


> "Chess tournaments sexy and exciting?" Should we consider that to be film making or should we think it to be a miracle? LOL.  I will try to catch an episode or two of "Queens Gambit" on Netflix. Thanks for the suggestion!


We are also watching this!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> Which version? The one directed by Norman Jewison, with Steve McQueen and Faye Dunaway, or the one directed by John McTiernan, with Pierce Brosnan and Rene Russo?


McQueen and Dunaway. For the record, though, I very much like both versions.


----------



## drpeter

Yes, I too liked both versions, although I prefer McQueen's version a tad more than Brosnan's in the title role. 

One memorable and self-deprecating note: I watched the second version in a movie theatre with a lady friend and when the scene with the catamaran came on, she asked me what kind of boat it was, and I explained quietly to her that it was a catamaran, originally made from two canoes attached to each other, by people living in the the South Pacific islands. I also said that the virtue of the double-hulled design was that it was impossible to sink. As soon as I finished saying this, the catamaran on the screen flipped over and sank! So much for my claim, LOL. 

I was wrong as I found out later -- I am not a sailor, but those who do sail told me that these vessels can indeed be overturned, especially when the outrigger faces leeward while tacking. But in most other situations, they are very stable.


----------



## rl1856

Ask me how many times I have flipped a Hobie Cat trying to balance on one keel.....magic when you get it right, but the knife edge is very narrow.


----------



## Fading Fast

Fading Fast said:


>


Since no one else commented, I'll (self-indulgently) comment on my own post as I like this one overall. I'd lose the PS and wish the jacket cover the bottom part of the shirt and tie, but still, for today, I like it. I'd also pin the collar (as I'd do with most rounded collars with ties). And. I'm intrigued by the raincoat.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> Yes, I too liked both versions, although I prefer McQueen's version a tad more than Brosnan's in the title role.
> 
> One memorable and self-deprecating note: I watched the second version in a movie theatre with a lady friend and when the scene with the catamaran came on, she asked me what kind of boat it was, and I explained quietly to her that it was a catamaran, originally made from two canoes attached to each other, by people living in the the South Pacific islands. I also said that the virtue of the double-hulled design was that it was impossible to sink. As soon as I finished saying this, the catamaran on the screen flipped over and sank! So much for my claim, LOL.
> 
> I was wrong as I found out later -- I am not a sailor, but those who do sail told me that these vessels can indeed be overturned, especially when the outrigger faces leeward while tacking. But in most other situations, they are very stable.


Catamarans have several virtues. Although they can be capsized they are generally a lot more stable. They typically draw very little water and are fast. Whether a vessel is unsinkable or not is a function of hull construction. Hulls with things like styrofoam in them are generally harder to sink since a punctured hull will not allow water to enter areas filled with styrofoam. For a real rush watch the videos of recent America's Cup races. Of course, to a Trad, catamarans are cool but not as cool as single hulled boats, especially wooden ones! Sort of like in the Vintage Autos thread, I'd rather have a wood hulled sailing dinghy than a big catamaran!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50678


Considering today's cover picture, I find myself further convinced that Ralph is his own very best salesman! He and his wife were born to live in and enjoy those casual styles...they look content/perfectly natural. When I buy Ralph's stuff, I'm in fact buying Ralph and the way he looks wearing his own designs. Although, I think he might have sacrificed just a bit too much cowhide in the crafting of that belt!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Considering today's cover picture, I find myself further convinced that Ralph is his own very best salesman! He and his wife were born to live in and enjoy those casual styles...they look content/perfectly natural. When I buy Ralph's stuff, I'm in fact buying Ralph and the way he looks wearing his own designs. Although, I think he might have sacrificed just a bit too much cowhide in the crafting of that belt!


In this thread, we've talked about Ralph's models scowling instead of smiling: it's nice that Ralph usually looks happy in his pics. Maybe I'm simple (okay, I'm simple), but, in general, I like to see people happy and, in ads for clothing, I like to see people who seem happy in the clothes. The last thing I need in life is an angst-inducing pair of chinos.

I would probably have told you for years - and sincerely believed it - that I bought Ralph's clothes simply because I like the clothes, but I've probably "absorbed" the entire Ralph Lauren mystique. We all know he's a Jewish kid from Brooklyn and not a to-the-manor-born WASP, so for this American mutt, "born to" a slapdash 900-square-foot ranch house, on a nondescript street, in a pedestrian town, in New Jersey (for God's sakes), maybe I like the American-Dream gestalt of Ralph's world too.

Heck, I love just walking around his flagship Rhinelander mansion because it's all so beautiful and old worldly. Am I buying a small piece of that when I buy a Ralph tie - yes, no, maybe, I don't know, probably, sure.


----------



## Fading Fast

This is from a Paul Stuart email I received today, but it didn't seem to make sense to start a separate Paul Stuart thread, so I thought I'd tuck it in here as a one-off.

Overall, it's pretty darn nice with a lot of classic elements done with a Paul-Stuart touch.


----------



## drpeter

Ralph Lauren often wears torn clothes in these adverts. I wonder if anyone knows how and when torn and ripped clothing became a badge of the well-heeled, and became fashionable. What could be the reason for this practice?

I have lived in many countries and cultures, but did not observe this feature of people's dressing styles and habits in any of them, especially not in developing nations. In those places, and in those times I must say, wearing torn clothes was a mark of the poor folk, and so those who were not poor avoided such clothing at all costs. Even the poor generally had their "Sunday best" and would try to dress in their best clothes for special occasions.

It's possible that even in those countries, though, they have taken to wearing torn clothing now, in imitation of people in wealthier nations. It is quite some time since I travelled abroad, so I don't really know.

At best, this practice might seem to suggest a welcome solidarity with the poor and unfortunate. Or it might indicate a propensity for extreme thrift, as in the older New England traditions in our country. Or it might display an exaggerated appreciation of vintage and long-worn clothes. But, at worst, it might imply an inverted snobbery, where the well-heeled mimic the clothes of the poor, and in doing so make a mockery of their misfortunes. I don't understand this practice, so perhaps members here might set me straight.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Ralph Lauren often wears torn clothes in these adverts. I wonder if anyone knows how and when torn and ripped clothing became a badge of the well-heeled, and became fashionable. What could be the reason for this practice?
> 
> I have lived in many countries and cultures, but did not observe this feature of people's dressing styles and habits in any of them, especially not in developing nations. In those places, and in those times I must say, wearing torn clothes was a mark of the poor folk, and so those who were not poor avoided such clothing at all costs. Even the poor generally had their "Sunday best" and would try to dress in their best clothes for special occasions.
> 
> It's possible that even in those countries, though, they have taken to wearing torn clothing now, in imitation of people in wealthier nations. It is quite some time since I travelled abroad, so I don't really know.
> 
> At best, this practice might seem to suggest a welcome solidarity with the poor and unfortunate. Or it might indicate a propensity for extreme thrift, as in the older New England traditions in our country. Or it might display an exaggerated appreciation of vintage and long-worn clothes. But, at worst, it might imply an inverted snobbery, where the well-heeled mimic the clothes of the poor, and in doing so make a mockery of their misfortunes. I don't understand this practice, so perhaps members here might set me straight.


Up until the late 1960s, attitudes toward clothing in the US were pretty much like other countries, no-one wanted to wear ripped or tattered clothes as it meant you were too poor to buy better new clothes when needed. I'm sure there are some earlier examples of ripped clothing as style or statement (there always are), but for the large majority of the US population, from rich to poor, everyone tried to dress "nicely" until the late '60s.

Initially, dressing sloppily was part of the '60s anti-establishment vibe. But since then, it has morphed into all the reasons you note and, also, it became a way for some rich people to arrogantly signal "I'm so rich I can dress sloppily and you still have to admit me / listen to me / etc."


----------



## Oldsarge

I believe the term from the 60's was 'radical chic' in which spoiled, well-heeled white college students tried to use it as a statement of their solidarity with the 'oppressed and down-trodden'. Somehow fifty years later, it doesn't seem to have had any beneficial effect.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> This is from a Paul Stuart email I received today, but it didn't seem to make sense to start a separate Paul Stuart thread, so I thought I'd tuck it in here as a one-off.
> 
> Overall, it's pretty darn nice with a lot of classic elements done with a Paul-Stuart touch.
> View attachment 50682


That is a great picture, but there is not a component of that rig that starts at just $88. LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> That is a great picture, but there is not a component of that rig that starts at just $88. LOL.


Agreed. I'll click through and report back, but yes, nothing in that pic is $88.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> That is a great picture, but there is not a component of that rig that starts at just $88. LOL.





Fading Fast said:


> Agreed. I'll click through and report back, but yes, nothing in that pic is $88.


In the sale section, similar jackets at full price are $1500, now marked down to $600 - a big mark down, but not to $88. Similar sweaters were $750 now $375, etc. Similar shirts, for example, were $225, now $113 (close, but still, not $88). And pants, $425 ⇨ $250 to $125.

My guess, something was $88 somewhere, so they could say it.

On sale - if everything was still in stock (it isn't) - his outfit is ~$1300, down from ~$3000.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> That is a great picture, but there is not a component of that rig that starts at just $88. LOL.


Maybe it's his u-trou. I could see PS hawking $88 boxers.


----------



## Fading Fast

Okay, this is something I just don't understand. Do adult men really wear sweaters like that in public? Every year, for decades now, Ralph has had a large selection of clothes with bears on it. And some of the items are quite expensive. While I couldn't find this exact sweater, ones like it are on Ralph's site today for $400.

https://www.ralphlauren.com/gifts-m...ar-gifts-rd&altrurlID=gifts-men-bear-gifts-rd

For full disclosure, I own some T-shirts and a sweatshirt with a Ralph bear on it - all bought on deep sale and worn only in my apartment or the apartment building's laundry room, etc. But there is a big difference between buying a $10 bear T-shirt to knock around your apartment in and a $400 bear sweater.

In public, I've seen the bear T-shirts and caps, etc., but only once - in an airport - did I see an adult male in an expensive Ralph bear sweater. So, I ask, who buys this stuff as they aren't making it year in and year out if it isn't selling?

Note, I do like the winter white trousers and grey sweater color combo of the model's outfit. Also, the bear himself (on the model's sweater) is very well dressed.


----------



## drpeter

As for why people buy the bear clothes, let me observe that there is no gainsaying people's tastes in such matters. Also, when given absolute freedom to choose what they want, people very often imitate the choices made by others. This is the process of saying "I'll have what she/he is having". Perhaps there is too much effort and cognitive strain in coming up with original decisions!

Coming soon to Ralph Lauren emporia: A navy blazer with a bear crest, perhaps with the motto _Dum_ _vivet Ursus_ emblazoned around a happy-looking grizzly, Oh, I forgot: A happy-looking, _well-dressed _grizzly.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

I'd turn him out, citing his being bearly dressed. I also concur on winter white. It works for Diane Keaton, but that is about it.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> As for why people buy the bear clothes, let me observe that there is no gainsaying people's tastes in such matters. Also, when given absolute freedom to choose what they want, people very often imitate the choices made by others. This is the process of saying "I'll have what she/he is having". Perhaps there is too much effort and cognitive strain in coming up with original decisions!
> 
> Coming soon to Ralph Lauren emporia: A navy blazer with a bear crest, perhaps with the motto _Dum_ _vivet Ursus_ emblazoned around a happy-looking grizzly, Oh, I forgot: A happy-looking, _well-dressed _grizzly.


I appreciate your comments and agree and support the idea that people do what they want to do and, often times, they do what they see other's around them doing.

My slight variation on that question is, I guess, have any of you guys seen men wearing the expensive bear sweaters, etc., in public?

Again, I've seen the bear T-shirts and baseball caps - but those can be had on sale for very little money and can fall into the category of kitsch - but a $400 sweater with a large bear on it over dress slacks is something entirely different.

If someone wants to wear these items, that's their business, my question is more how come I never see these clothes in circulation (except once), but Ralph keeps making them every year? What happens to the pile of un-sold $400 bear sweaters? If they all made it to the discount bins/outlets/etc., they'd be showing up more in public.

That's it, I'm just surprised I see Ralph making them, but never see them in circulation. And in NYC, I see a lot of Ralph clothes being worn.


----------



## drpeter

Could it be that the $400 bear sweaters are just an advertising ploy designed to make _other_ RL items more desirable to prospective customers? I know it is odd, but it could have an oblique effect because some folks might regard them as cute or adorable. If you make them in small numbers, it would not matter if they remained unsold for the most part.

Another thought: Maybe _real _bears are wearing those sweaters. Gary Larson might know.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Could it be that the $400 bear sweaters are just an advertising ploy designed to make _other_ RL items more desirable to prospective customers? I know it is odd, but it could have an oblique effect because some folks might regard them as cute or adorable. If you make them in small numbers, it would not matter if they remained unsold for the most part.
> 
> Another thought: Maybe _real _bears are wearing those sweaters. Gary Larson might know.


Maybe, I've been in the flagship and there's a lot of expensive bear clothing there just to use as meta-advertisement, but it's a big company, so maybe.

And we haven't even talked about the $2000 bear watches that I've never ever seen on anyone once. That's not a typo, that two-thousand dollars for a bear watch. Like this one:









To your final point, as noted, the bear himself in the sweater is much nicer dressed than the model. I love his tennis sweater and whites, tie and duffle coat. So maybe the bears do buy the bear clothing, but from the bear on the sweater, it seems like they have more classical taste in attire.


----------



## drpeter

That does it. This begins to sound like a great plot idea for a play or film.

A forest ranger heads out into the woods, say in northern Wisconsin, and discovers a small community of bears all dressed in Ralph Lauren clothes and $2000 bear watches. Intrigued, she begins to wonder how this is possible. Slowly, she begins to uncover the truth about bears who have kept their intelligence and their clothes sense secret from most of humanity, with the exception of good ol' Ralph. Using means yet to be revealed, Ralph has managed to penetrate the bear market (pun intended) and sell clothes to the ursine population in record numbers. We could extend the plot, but we don't want to reveal the surprises along the way (for example, the exchange arrangements for converting bear dollars to human dollars) and the final climactic denouement.

I think we must consult with Paddington, Pooh and other bears of historic stature, to flesh out this plot. It could be a hit show and a blockbuster film.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> That does it. This begins to sound like a great plot idea for a play or film.
> 
> A forest ranger heads out into the woods, say in northern Wisconsin, and discovers a small community of bears all dressed in Ralph Lauren clothes and $2000 bear watches. Intrigued, she begins to wonder how this is possible. Slowly, she begins to uncover the truth about bears who have kept their intelligence and their clothes sense secret from most of humanity, with the exception of good ol' Ralph. Using means yet to be revealed, Ralph has managed to penetrate the bear market (pun intended) and sell clothes to the ursine population in record numbers. We could extend the plot, but we don't want to reveal the surprises along the way (for example, the exchange arrangements for converting bear dollars to human dollars) and the final climactic denouement.
> 
> I think we must consult with Paddington, Pooh and other bears of historic stature, to flesh out this plot. It could be a hit show and a blockbuster film.


As a big fan of anthropomorphizing animals, in general, and bears, specifically, I'm loving your story.

Paddington is one of my favorites.

Have you read this book? It's a very enjoyable silly human-like bear story:








https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/225691.The_Bear_Went_Over_the_Mountain


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Another lover of bear books here! I grew up on Pooh stories and Rudyard Kipling's Just So Srories. Over seventy years later I still love them!


----------



## Oldsarge

There is a rare children's book, translated from the original German, entitled _The Bear At The Hunters' Ball_ in which a very inebriated bear dresses up for a New Year's party as a hunter (German style) and joins a hunters' ball until his really angry wife finds him consorting with lowlifes and drags him home. It's hysterical but I'm sure that most parents would find it unsuitable for children. My son at six loved it.


----------



## Fading Fast

This little guy (about 3 feet tall) was a birthday gift from my girlfriend about 20 years ago and he's been with us ever since. As you can tell from his attire, he wants to work with animals when he grows up. I have this image in my head of our bear in a zookeepers uniform working with the actual zoo bears.

And, yes, somewhere along the way, his left ear decided to flop a bit so it looks as if he's always signaling that he's about to make a left turn. I worry about the day he wants to get a drivers license, but when don't we worry about them.


----------



## drpeter

Great comments, all! I think I may have started a new movement within AAAC, LOL.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> As a big fan of anthropomorphizing animals, in general, and bears, specifically, I'm loving your story.
> 
> Paddington is one of my favorites.
> 
> Have you read this book? It's a very enjoyable silly human-like bear story:
> View attachment 50725
> 
> https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/225691.The_Bear_Went_Over_the_Mountain


Thanks, I'll see if I can find a copy of this book. I do have Paddington and Pooh books, and loved the recent films about Christopher Robin -- a welcome respite from the craziness of the world out there.


----------



## drpeter

Another favourite of mine, which I enjoyed reading to my stepdaughter when she was little, is _Blueberries for Sal. _What a lovely story!


----------



## Oldsarge

drpeter said:


> Another favourite of mine, which I enjoyed reading to my stepdaughter when she was little, is _Blueberries for Sal. _What a lovely story!


Oh, that's a great classic. When I taught 2nd grade for a year and a half it was a much requested after lunch story. Great memories . . .


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50779


Some nice elements in a typically RL composition. Other than the obvious one of the socks, the one I just could not handle was the tassels. I am of the view that dress shoes and jeans do not mix and in my view tassel loafers are dress shoes. I know there are many others, perhaps a majority, who think tassel loafers are casual and should never be taken for dress footwear, but legions of bankers, investment bankers, and lawyers who wore them with suits in ages past thought otherwise. I feel the same way when When I see oxfords with jeans, even things like Scotch grain longwings. I could wear the clothes with either suede or chromexcel LHSs, chromexcel bluchers, or Sperrys. Of course if none of those are in the PRL lineup, Ralph will not be advertising them!


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50779


At once a rather handsome and reflective young lad. The turtle necked sweater, the coat, the scarf, and those classic Tassel loafers make for a great rig, but at that point things go south...no pun intended. Those Oliver Peoples sunglasses need to be replaced with classic Aviators and those peg legged jeans are just wrong. When the late, great Conway Twitty sang about the allure of "tight fitten jeans", he was talking about women, not pencil necked, college age wannabe studs! The kid needs to get a pair of Dad jeans that provide room for life's activities. Now, to those godawful orange socks they have just got to go...unless he is a student at Syracuse University. Nuff said.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> At once a rather handsome and reflective young lad. The turtle necked sweater, the coat, the scarf, and those classic Tassel loafers make for a great rig, but at that point things go south...no pun intended. Those Oliver Peoples sunglasses need to be replaced with classic Aviators and those peg legged jeans are just wrong. When the late, great Conway Twitty sang about the allure of "tight fitten jeans", he was talking about women, not pencil necked, college age wannabe studs! The kid needs to get a pair of Dad jeans that provide room for life's activities. Now, to those godawful orange socks they have just got to go...unless he is a student at Syracuse University. Nuff said.


Or a Vol...


----------



## drpeter

Now that's far too cryptic for me! Is that a special code that has meaning just for the Trads? And the final letter is also unclear: Vo "Eye"? Vo "Ell" ?

Orange and blue are the colours for the University of Illinois, so perhaps it is a typo, and you meant UoI?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> Now that's far too cryptic for me! Is that a special code that has meaning just for the Trads? And the final letter is also unclear: Vo "Eye"? Vo "Ell" ?
> 
> Orange and blue are the colours for the University of Illinois, so perhaps it is a typo, and you meant UoI?


Sorry...the Tennessee Volunteers. Their color is Tang orange.


----------



## drpeter

TKI67 said:


> Sorry...the Tennessee Volunteers. Their color is Tang orange.


I had to look that up! I find that they are the U of T football team.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> I had to look that up! I find that they are the U of T football team.


Yep, not UT!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50797


An ok assemblage, albeit improbable. Students generally do not sport pocket squares.


----------



## London380sl

Holy cow! What a find. Kill two birds with one stone. You can get both the Polo crest and the polo bear on this sweater!

On a slightly more serious note. For those interested in an abridged history of RL Polo bear I came across this article:
https://www.grailed.com/drycleanonly/ralph-lauren-polo-bear-history.


----------



## Fading Fast

London380sl said:


> View attachment 50806
> 
> Holy cow! What a find. Kill two birds with one stone. You can get both the Polo crest and the polo bear on this sweater!
> 
> On a slightly more serious note. For those interested in an abridged history of RL Polo bear I came across this article:
> https://www.grailed.com/drycleanonly/ralph-lauren-polo-bear-history.


Really good article, thank you for posting it.

And wow, apparently a lot of people buy the bear clothing and have for several decades now. Heck, there was enough demand that RL brought it back after a hiatus.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

London380sl said:


> View attachment 50806
> 
> Holy cow! What a find. Kill two birds with one stone. You can get both the Polo crest and the polo bear on this sweater!
> 
> On a slightly more serious note. For those interested in an abridged history of RL Polo bear I came across this article:
> https://www.grailed.com/drycleanonly/ralph-lauren-polo-bear-history.


Agree with FF, great article. Recognizable at once as a Steiff bear, it is, indeed cool, but IMHO it is better in bear form than as a logo. I still have mine from 1950. Circa 1952 or 1953 I shaved it. Its stubble is charming. Its growler still works!


----------



## Fading Fast

Cross post with the Tweed thread.


----------



## Old Road Dog

What is on the other end of the watch chain...a monocle?


----------



## London380sl

Like the jacket. Like the tie. But together? Looks a little too busy in that photo. If it was me wearing that jacket I would have gone with a solid tie.

And yeah, what's with the watch chain?


----------



## Fading Fast

Old Road Dog said:


> What is on the other end of the watch chain...a monocle?


A pocket watch. Pic to follow.


----------



## Fading Fast

Old Road Dog said:


> What is on the other end of the watch chain...a monocle?





London380sl said:


> Like the jacket. Like the tie. But together? Looks a little too busy in that photo. If it was me wearing that jacket I would have gone with a solid tie.
> 
> And yeah, what's with the watch chain?


It was a thing many years ago (by a few - never a big thing) to keep a pocketwatch in the suit's or sport coat's breast pocket connected by a chain looped through the lapel's buttonhole. Here's an article about it

https://www.vintagecoolhunter.com/single-post/2016/06/12/The-Way-You-Wear-Your-Watch

And these terrible pics are from a 1960's movie "Don't Make Waves."


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Old Road Dog said:


> What is on the other end of the watch chain...a monocle?


A sugar glider!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

FYI since monocles were mentioned, I have one on a nylon loop. It is terrific when wearing a pocketless polo but enjoying being able to read menus and the like.


----------



## Oldsarge

I refuse to wear polos without pockets to keep my reading glasses in.


----------



## Fading Fast

Oldsarge said:


> I refuse to wear polos without pockets to keep my reading glasses in.


I've tried that, but every time I did, I ended up dumping my reading glasses on the floor several times a day.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> I've tried that, but every time I did, I ended up dumping my reading glasses on the floor several times a day.


I never liked the look on me of polos with pockets. This thing has really been handy.

https://www.nearsights.com/collecti...tions/products/classic-monocle-tortoise-gloss


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50886


Nice colors. Too bad he never smiles. We want to see his Crest smile.


----------



## eagle2250

London380sl said:


> Like the jacket. Like the tie. But together? Looks a little too busy in that photo. If it was me wearing that jacket I would have gone with a solid tie.
> 
> And yeah, what's with the watch chain?


For those fortunate enough to be able to claim ownership of a classic pocket watch, the watch chain in the lapel provides the opportunity to get some practical use out of the pocket watch...or perhaps just some opportunities to show it off! LOL.


----------



## eagle2250

TKI67 said:


> Nice colors. Too bad he never smiles. We want to see his Crest smile.


Indeed, in this day's shot, he actually appears to be glaring at something. The testing session he is seen walking out of, must not have gone well? LOL.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> For those fortunate enough to be able to claim ownership of a classic pocket watch, the watch chain in the lapel provides the opportunity to get some practical use out of the pocket watch...or perhaps just some opportunities to show it off! LOL.


Might that be the family heirloom Half-Hunter that was handed down for generations?


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 50939


Based on the sleeve braid on the sleeves of his Pea Coat, it would appear the Commodore and his lady are out for an intimate stroll. Life is good!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> Based on the sleeve braid on the sleeves of his Pea Coat, it would appear the Commodore and his lady are out for an intimate stroll. Life is good!


Looks like a potential Country Joe and the Fish cover...good times in old uniforms.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

We are the hollow menu
We are the stuffed men, 
Leaning together
Our rigs replete but kitsch. Alas!

Actually, but for the unfortunate trousers in the center, these chaps look pretty good for hollow men.


----------



## drpeter

It's probably a visual metaphor for the way the fashion world ends -- just the occasional whimper, not too many bangs!


----------



## Fading Fast

Can't confirm, but it was labeled at a Ralph effort where I found it.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Can't confirm, but it was labeled at a Ralph effort where I found it.
> View attachment 50995


All that white? That is not a rig in which one should play any sport, except perhaps he is intending to spank his amore' with the paddle seen tucked under his right arm. Now that would be a dangerous sport, eh?


----------



## drpeter

Cricket! I'm all for it, it's my beloved old sport, and a great way to pass a Saturday afternoon back then.
Almost thirty years ago, when I was on sabbatical at the University of Illinois, I used to join a group of younger men from the five major cricketing nations -- Australia, England, India, Pakistan and the West Indies for afternoon play on a cricket pitch the university provided for them. Great fun!0

I ended up with a broken finger after attempting a difficult catch (fielders do not wear gloves unlike baseball). But as usual, we repaired to a favourite pub and a few drams of Glenfiddich eased the pain of the broken finger.

All that said, no cricket player in the world would be dressed the way Ralph has him outfitted. The white trousers are all right, but not the shirt or collar or necktie (!) or braces. But that is part of the RL approach. They get these things wrong most of the time.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> All that white? That is not a rig in which one should play any sport, except perhaps he is intending to spank his amore' with the paddle seen tucked under his right arm. Now that would be a dangerous sport, eh?


A cricket bat would be very dangerous for spanking anyone. As a cricket player, I would advise great caution to spanking enthusiasts, LOL.

By the way, Eagle, there used to be just two people on a cricket field who would wear ties: The two umpires. The umpires' uniform was a longish white coat, white shirt, dark solid tie, black trousers, white shoes and a white cap. Here's legendary umpire David Shepherd, dressed to perfection, giving "an out", that is, approving the bowler's dismissal of a batsman with a strike on the stumps or a catch taken by a fielder:


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Old Road Dog

I remember the ad with the girl in the beret and vintage goggles. She was his #1 model in the eighties. I think her working name was Clotilda. Those were the good years!


----------



## Fading Fast

Since we were talking about this fella recently in the thread, thought a pic would be nice:


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Old Road Dog

You can be cool at 80. Owning that Jag helps.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 51072


Wearing that B-3 Flight Jacket and those Aviator sunglasses, Ralph looks to be ready to take that Jag out for a flight to drill holes in the clouds.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Nice suit. I'm surprised, though: Was there an entire magazine dedicated to RL Polo clothing?


----------



## eagle2250

^^
I think we may be looking at a Spring 2005 catalogue, rather than a magazine., with several articles thrown in for good measure. Just a thought. I like the rig, but wish the young gentleman's mama had taught him better so that he might know to keep his hands out of his pockets! Just a thought.


----------



## London380sl

If James Bond can do it he can do it.









The only thing that irks me is the tie tucked into the pants.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> I think we may be looking at a Spring 2005 catalogue, rather than a magazine., with several articles thrown in for good measure. Just a thought. I like the rig, but wish the young gentleman's mama had taught him better so that he might know to keep his hands out of his pockets! Just a thought.


He needs to attend to his gig line, too!


----------



## Fading Fast

I believe this is Nacho Figueras, the Polo player and Ralph Lauren model.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 51137
> 
> I believe this is Nacho Figueras, the Polo player and Ralph Lauren model.


If that polo pony were just a little bigger, it could be sporting a crest with a teddy bear!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 51170


Sloppy but tasteful. I have always loved such plaids, and I have paired with mine a bow tie with pretty much the same pattern as his pocket square.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> Sloppy but tasteful. I have always loved such plaids, and I have paired with mine a bow tie with pretty much the same pattern as his pocket square.


I like the sport coat's pattern as well. It's a bit hard to tell from the pic, but it looks like the polo shirt has a "structured" collar which, in theory, looks better than a traditional polo shirt collar when paired with a sport coat. But as you note, with the general sloppiness of it, it's hard to tell.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> I like the sport coat's pattern as well. It's a bit hard to tell from the pic, but it looks like the polo shirt has a "structured" collar which, in theory, looks better than a traditional polo shirt collar when paired with a sport coat. But as you note, with the general sloppiness of it, it's hard to tell.


I wondered about the collar as well. It made me feel more au courant with my O'Connell's polos which have that extra button.


----------



## Old Road Dog

Just to elevate your terminology a bit; the collar on that blue knit shirt is "cut and sewn", as opposed to that on the common RL polo shirt, which has a "rack" collar.


----------



## drpeter

If I understand the term correctly, "cut and sewn" refers to the standard shirt collar where the same shirting material (or perhaps a contrasting one) is cut into a collar and sewn to the neck (or stand) of the shirt. 

I tried to look up the term "rack collar", but without much success. Is this another term for the ribbed collars that are usually found on polo shirts? And why are they termed rack collars?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> If I understand the term correctly, "cut and sewn" refers to the standard shirt collar where the same shirting material (or perhaps a contrasting one) is cut into a collar and sewn to the neck (or stand) of the shirt.
> 
> I tried to look up the term "rack collar", but without much success. Is this another term for the ribbed collars that are usually found on polo shirts? And why are they termed rack collars?


Because they stretch enough to put on over your antlers.


----------



## drpeter

TKI67 said:


> Because they stretch enough to put on over your antlers.


Alas, my antlers keep getting smaller and smaller -- must be the aging process


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 51239


Love those camp mocs and as I recall back in the Fall of 1968, I was a young man, filled with dreams of derring-do and way too much confidence...and wearing a pair of camp moces that looked much like the pair pictured in today's illustration. Although, mine didn't have a strap across the lacing throat of the shoes. Thank you for the memories!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 51263


Ski bum?


----------



## London380sl

Maybe a hopeful one. Reflections in the glass show a landscape with no snow. Looks more like late summer/early fall to me.


----------



## Fading Fast

Oldsarge said:


> Ski bum?


Another example where the bear's outfit is nicer than the model's. While still silly and I wouldn't wear it, at least the giant bear sweater looks a little less crazy in his outfit than in most.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 51284


The young stud must be equally as worldly as is that B3 Jacket...he is sporting the infamous 1000 yard stare of those who have been through a few too many PRL photo shoots! LOL.


----------



## drpeter

Handsome chap. But those jeans have gone past the point of no return, LOL.

For some reason, this lad reminded me of the young Sidney Poitier, who could look very elegant when wearing a suit and tie. Maybe I'm just getting old.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Handsome chap. But those jeans have gone past the point of no return, LOL.
> 
> For some reason, this lad reminded me of the young Sidney Poitier, who could look very elegant when wearing a suit and tie. Maybe I'm just getting old.


TCM is currently running a promo clip of, mainly, quick scenes from Sidney Poitier movies from the 1960s. Beyond being a ridiculously handsome man, as you noted, the man wore a suit and tie incredibly well.

Awhile back, I posted a bit about that in the "Trad in Movies" thread here:  #195


----------



## drpeter

I read that post, FF, your comments are spot on. I agree entirely. And what a great film!


----------



## icebergwtq

drpeter said:


> I think many young models have, for years now, cultivated an expression that displays a lack of interest in whatever it is that is going on with them or around them. It is a couldn't-care-less attitude that they are either affecting, or actually feeling.


Their expressions are whatever the people staging the catwalk, video or ad tell them to display.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Old Road Dog

The ads photographed for RL by Bruce Weber were very formative of our standards and expectations of how the clothing should be worn. The photo above in from that era, I believe. To my eye that ensemble is perfect in every detail.

The advertising today is very different from then. There is minimal, or loose coordination of items worn and the models are barely drinking age. To me, they look very much as if someone else dressed them (true). Big fashion companies today are often staffed with twenty-somethings who work for a pitance and a generous discount. They are likely who picks what is to be worn for photo-shoots. It shows. Perhaps that is also the reason the current models have that thousand-yard stare; rather than the gentleman above, who looks as if he could afford to wear what he has on, and chose it himself.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 51336


That rig would work (though not perfectly) if that young fella's Mother had just taught him how to button an button. If you are not going to button a shirt, just take it off! Just my opinion.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 51362


PRL sending the right message, even with that "yahoo's" hand jammed in his pocket! LOL.


----------



## Old Road Dog

Again, a "vintage" RL shot. His clothing today fits so tight that the beautiful drape and expression in the above is non-existent.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 51379


The picture above brings to mind that old silver screen classic, Paper Moon, starring Ryan and Tatum O'Neil!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> The picture above brings to mind that old silver screen classic, Paper Moon, starring Ryan and Tatum O'Neil!


⇧ Good call. Also, that's a heck of a sweater he's got on.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> The picture above brings to mind that old silver screen classic, Paper Moon, starring Ryan and Tatum O'Neil!


"But it wouldn't be make believe, if you believed in me." (Love that song by Nat King Cole)


----------



## Old Road Dog

Ralph, in the golden era of "jivey ivy".


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 51416


Very nice, overall, but were it up to me, I would opt for a bit more fabric availability in the legs of those trousers. Also I've got some reservations regarding the inclusion of the bow tie with that rig and please don't pop that jacket collar.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Very nice, overall, but were it up to me, I would opt for a bit more fabric availability in the legs of those trousers. Also I've got some reservations regarding the inclusion of the bow tie with that rig and please don't pop that jacket collar.


I, too, thought the pant leg was too narrow and too long.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 51473


Love it, but not the popped collar. Alas, I fear I shall ever mourn the loss of my beloved Gloverall Duffel...left behind in the care of another, when we departed our Hoosierville homestead!


----------



## drpeter

I take very good care of my old beige Gloverall, the Monty model. It is so warm and perfect for our Wisconsin winters.


----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph email yesterday:


----------



## Old Road Dog

This is clothing become costume. You are looking at a couple thousand-dollar investment to look like you slept under a bridge.


----------



## Fading Fast

Old Road Dog said:


> This is clothing become costume. You are looking at a couple thousand-dollar investment to look like you slept under a bridge.


I was surprised that this one came in an email yesterday as it seemed to me - from the other emails from Ralph this year (I've posted a bunch of them here) - that it was moving away from some of the extreme stuff like this at least in the direct email pictures.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> From a Ralph email yesterday:
> View attachment 51489


Is that a gun in his pocket, or is he just happy to be posted on AAAC?


----------



## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> Is that a gun in his pocket, or is he just happy to be posted on AAAC?


Good eye!


----------



## Oldsarge

These aren't Ralph's but I don't know where else to post them.


----------



## drpeter

I like the colours, Sarge. Are these clothes yours, or did you find the picture elsewhere?


----------



## Fading Fast

And a bonus pic


----------



## drpeter

Nice muffler. Nice bags too.


----------



## Oldsarge

drpeter said:


> I like the colours, Sarge. Are these clothes yours, or did you find the picture elsewhere?


So do I. It's from the blog Die Workwear.


----------



## drpeter

I'll have to check it out. Thanks.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 51549


:crazy: Jeez Louise, even Ralph's mannequins have their hands stuffed in their pockets. However, setting aside the issue with the hands in their pockets, those rigs are incredibly well put together!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> :crazy: Jeez Louise, even Ralph's mannequins have their hands stuffed in their pockets. However, setting aside the issue with the hands in their pockets, those rigs are incredibly well put together!


Take the crest off and that's a heck of a shawl-collar sweater.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 51573


Considered individually, each of the garments are noteworthy and could work well in a gentleman's wardrobe. However, I would never presume to pair the shirt, sweater and jacket pictured into the same rig. To my eye, it just looks off!


----------



## Fading Fast

Probably a dupe, but maybe not.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

The lady isn't wearing tattered clothes, though. It must be just Ralph.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> The lady isn't wearing tattered clothes, though. It must be just Ralph.


I agree, I think his wife's outfit looks good - classic Ralph and nice on her.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 51651


I like this one, The coat, the muffler, the vest, the sweater and even the gloves, indeed, every aspect of it no less. Even the "I don't give a sh*t" facial set has been replaced by more of a bemused expression! It got me so excited, I tried to click on the 'shop now' notation. LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Rather nice! I do like club collars on shirts, I wish there were more such shirts available, There was a brief surge of popularity for these in the late seventies and early eighties, but then they disappeared. I have thrifted all summer and fall, but so far, I have not run into a single club collared shirt!


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Rather nice! I do like club collars on shirts, I wish there were more such shirts available, There was a brief surge of popularity for these in the late seventies and early eighties, but then they disappeared. I have thrifted all summer and fall, but so far, I have not run into a single club collared shirt!


I'm a fan as well, especially with a tie and collar pin (or better still, if they have eyelets sewn into them for a collar bar, the kind that unscrews at one end). Up until recently, both Ralph and BB both put out several a year (do you run into their dress shirts at all when you're thrifting?).

Sadly, I've stopped buying dress shirts as mine sit all but unused in the closet (I've WFH full time since '12 and my few in-person meetings are biz casual or all casual), so I don't even look at the new offerings from those stores anymore.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I'm a fan as well, especially with a tie and collar pin (or better still, if they have eyelets sewn into them for a collar bar, the kind that unscrews at one end). Up until recently, both Ralph and BB both put out several a year (do you run into their dress shirts at all when you're thrifting?).
> 
> Sadly, I've stopped buying dress shirts as mine sit all but unused in the closet (I've WFH full time since '12 and my few in-person meetings are biz casual or all casual), so I don't even look at the new offerings from those stores anymore.


I like those eyelet collars as well, had a few of those in the old days. One of the nice things about a collar pin is that it pushes the knot of the tie out very nicely, and I like that look.

I have actually run into a few RL and BB shirts when thrifting and have picked up the ones I liked, for a few dollars apiece. But so far, I have not seen one with a club collar, or even a straight collar with eyelets, not RL or BB or any other brand.

I suppose out here in the frozen tundra of the Midwest, we go for pretty standard dress shirts, button downs, short points and the occasional spread collar. Actually, most men stick to the Wisconsin dress code: Jeans, T shirts, and a checked flannel shirt worn untucked. Plus work boots. Plus a pickup truck with a hitch in the back for, you know, hauling the stuff a man has to haul.

I kid them but I like my fellow Wisconsinites and Midwesterners very much when all is said and done. There is a certain decency and gentleness to them, a kind of "aw shucks" quality that I find rather charming. No airs or graces. Some of the most helpful and kind people I have had the privilege of knowing.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> I like those eyelet collars as well, had a few of those in the old days. One of the nice things about a collar pin is that it pushes the knot of the tie out very nicely, and I like that look.
> ...


:happy:


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 51776


I would never wear that jacket, but I rather like the vest. The shirt and tie pictured work nicely with the vest!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I would never wear that jacket, but I rather like the vest. The shirt and tie pictured work nicely with the vest!


As is, I agree with you, but if they took all the cr*p (sorry, but that's what all the "Ralph" and other stuff is) off the jacket, it would be a very nice '50s-style corduroy jacket.


----------



## Old Road Dog

Ralph has always maintained the mantra that he was "selling a dream". Rigs like the one in the photo suggest that idea. No one of us would likely wear the clothing as it is shown, but we might be tempted to buy a piece because it fulfills our vision of how that garment fits into our self-concept.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 51801


I'm going to simply say, nicely done and just leave it at that!

PS: The model's smaller brother called and said he needs his tweed jacket back. LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I'm going to simply say, nicely done and just leave it at that!
> 
> PS: The model's smaller brother called and said he needs his tweed jacket back. LOL.


Yup,  #5,002


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

The shirt collar is a bit of a puzzle in this picture. It is a contrasting collar, and it looks pinned down, but it also looks like a button-down collar unbuttoned. I have not seen a button-down collar pinned (why not simply button it down?), and I've certainly not seen one in a contrasting collar shirt.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
Ditto!


----------



## GRH

Stylists gotta style.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> The shirt collar is a bit of a puzzle in this picture. It is a contrasting collar, and it looks pinned down, but it also looks like a button-down collar unbuttoned. I have not seen a button-down collar pinned (why not simply button it down?), and I've certainly not seen one in a contrasting collar shirt.





eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Ditto!


Somewhere along the way, I think this came up before (we all read a lot a posts and none of us catch them all, so not criticizing on bit), Ralph, in his advertising pics, often does the crazy that we see here: he uses a collar bar or pin on a button-down collar and then leaves the buttons undone.

It's almost "his thing" as it's been going on for years in his advertisements and I've seen it regularly on the mannequins at his flagship store too. It makes no sense to me, but so much of what Ralph does in "stylizing" his clothes doesn't, but it would help to sell collar bars and pins I guess.

Here is one of the 20th century's fashion icons, Fred Astaire, wearing a collar pin with a button-down collar, but he also buttoned the collar down.









So, I think GRH got it right with this comment:


GRH said:


> Stylists gotta style.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Somewhere along the way, I think this came up before (we all read a lot a posts and none of us catch them all, so not criticizing on bit), Ralph, in his advertising pics, often does the crazy that we see here: he uses a collar bar or pin on a button-down collar and then leaves the buttons undone.
> 
> It's almost "his thing" as it's been going on for years in his advertisements and I've seen it regularly on the mannequins at his flagship store too. It makes no sense to me, but so much of what Ralph does in "stylizing" his clothes doesn't, but it would help to sell collar bars and pins I guess.
> 
> Here is one of the 20th century's fashion icons, Fred Astaire, wearing a collar pin with a button-down collar, but he also buttoned the collar down.
> View attachment 51843
> 
> 
> So, I think GRH got it right with this comment:


Good points, FF.

Reminds me of the fail-safe approach of wearing belt and braces to hold your pants in place! Perhaps Astaire had his collar pinned and buttoned down, so that nothing would fly away in the middle of an energetic bout of dancing, LOL.


----------



## drpeter

It's the weekend, and your picture and mention of Fred Astaire brought to mind one of the lovely songs he sang in 1938's _Carefree_. It is a scene where he dances with Ginger Rogers. Now I have a luscious rendition of this song by Liata, a trio of women who sing and/or play instruments. Here is their version:






I hope you enjoy this on a late Fall/early Winter Saturday morning.


----------



## fred johnson

Ralph sometimes did the contrasting BD collar thing. I had a couple of blue/white ones years ago; a mistake of course..


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Oldsarge

Good grief. How many kids/grandkids does he have?


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Old Road Dog

Ralph has two sons and a daughter. The young man to Ralph's left is his son-in-law, I believe.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 51969


I rather like the duffle coat, but those jeans should go directly to the trash bag! The shoes/chukka boots look to have great potential.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## fred johnson

For Me, this is the only acceptable RL Duffle Coat - I have one identical to this gentleman's which Uncle Ralph offered about 20 years ago..


----------



## Oldsarge

Happy Holidays from Ralph & Co.


----------



## Old Road Dog

I will say their stores always look fabulous. If you want a treat, search online for the virtual tour of the Beverly Hills Polo Ralph Lauren store. You can walk yourself through the the various rooms and look 360 degrees.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Very nice.

Sometimes the monochrome approach can work well, especially if variation in texture is employed to good advantage. The POW check on the sweater works very nicely, and in a subtle way, with the other shades of grey in the ensemble. The tie looks like wool, which has a difference in texture that is just right when placed alongside the shirt, which looks like oxford cloth or broadcloth (a bit hard to tell). The well-cut pair of grey flannels and a very similar jacket (can't tell if it is also grey flannel, but it looks smoother than flannel) also works well.

I have worn similar ensembles myself. I also usually add a tiny wedge of colour in the form of a maroon (paisley) pocket square, say, just to be unorthodox and stand in contrast to the general monochrome approach.

Full marks for Ralph and his advertising folks.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Very nice.
> 
> Sometimes the monochrome approach can work well, especially if variation in texture is employed to good advantage. The POW check on the sweater works very nicely, and in a subtle way, with the other shades of grey in the ensemble. The tie looks like wool, which has a difference in texture that is just right when placed alongside the shirt, which looks like oxford cloth or broadcloth (a bit hard to tell). The well-cut pair of grey flannels and a very similar jacket (can't tell if it is also grey flannel, but it looks smoother than flannel) also works well.
> 
> I have worn similar ensembles myself. I also usually add a tiny wedge of colour in the form of a maroon (paisley) pocket square, say, just to be unorthodox and stand in contrast to the general monochrome approach.
> 
> Full marks for Ralph and his advertising folks.


I, overall, agree and have worn a light-grey monochromatic look myself now and then. The only thing I'd change in his outfit is the the shirt as I don't like dark dress shirts. White or light grey would probably be my choice, but to really get that one right, I'd have to pull all the items over to the window for natural light and then check the different tones of the shirt to see what works.

A variation on the outfit that I'd like also would be a solid light-grey cardigan (maybe with dark grey piping) and a grey-on-grey herringbone or POW check sport coat .


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 52048


Our granddaughter, a raving Harry Potter fan, would title that picture, "Mad Eye Moody!" LOL. Sorry, I couldn't help myself.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 52129


I love that cardigan, but a pinned collar with a chunky knit cardigan seems a bit of an overreach...yes, no?


----------



## Old Road Dog

If you haven't shopped for my Christmas gift yet, that outfit would be perfect.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I love that cardigan, but a pinned collar with a chunky knit cardigan seems a bit of an overreach...yes, no?


Agreed, had Ralph not done his odd Ralphness and just left out the collar bar and, actually, buttoned the collar points - the way it was designed to work - all would have been good.



Old Road Dog said:


> If you haven't shopped for my Christmas gift yet, that outfit would be perfect.


Ditto.


----------



## Oldsarge

eagle2250 said:


> I love that cardigan, but a pinned collar with a chunky knit cardigan seems a bit of an overreach...yes, no?


Absolutely. I'd spill cognac all over the tie when I turned the page.


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> Absolutely. I'd spill cognac all over the tie when I turned the page.


What kind, Sarge? Back when I used to imbibe, my favourite was Hennessy. Went really well after a good dinner with the Partagas that my late father-in-law and I used to smoke sitting on the deck of his house in New Hampshire, observing the moods of the Oyster River nearby, the ocean not too far away. Not saying much, no need for words.

I also liked Armagnac. Now it's my personal blend of Assam and Darjeeling from India., LOL. Time passes, things change.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Old Road Dog

PRL does the Gap.......why pay less? Maybe that is what the model wore to the photo shoot.


----------



## Oldsarge

Preferably? Laird's 12-year-old rare apple brandy, to be honest. I find it the equal to any calvados distilled in France and since there are no import duties on it, measurably more affordable. Still expensive, though.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## DCR

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 52157


Channeling Jack Kennedy here


----------



## Oldsarge

There were many things about JFK I disliked but his clothing taste was definitely not among them.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 52157





DCR said:


> Channeling Jack Kennedy here


Channeling Jack Kennedy...perhaps, but I've had three people tell me and I agree This young RPL model looks a lot like our youngest grandson. People keep telling him he ought to be a model....jeez Louise, no one ever told me that! Although, back in the late 1960's the USAF did use my image on some recruiting posters/brochures. Alas, aging has not been kind to my visage! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Channeling Jack Kennedy...perhaps, but I've had three people tell me and I agree This young RPL model looks a lot like our youngest grandson. People keep telling him he ought to be a model....jeez Louise, no one ever told me that! Although, back in the late 1960's the USAF did use my image on some recruiting posters/brochures. Alas, aging has not been kind to my visage! LOL.


Depending on how old he is and what he wants from life, it can be an opportunity, but like everything, it's more complicated than it sounds.

I'm 6'1", 150lbs and average looking, but have a very angular face and am blue-eyed with (then) thick light-brown hair (now, still thick, but salt and pepper). In my '20s, living in NYC, I was approached several times about modeling as male models, back then, had to have a frame like mine and angular face. It's change a lot since, but even today, most male models are still tall and very thin.

To be sure, I wouldn't have been one of the top guys - those guys are everything plus very handsome - but plenty of men model at a level below the star guys. The problem was it would be a grind and require a full-time effort to get a career launched and I wasn't going to give up my Wall St career to take a shot at that.

One agent kept calling for awhile and another pitched me pretty hard, plus I had a few people approach me in the street/a store/etc., and give me their card, etc. It was flattering, but like everything, the reality is a lot harder when you dig into the details. Hence, no modeling career.


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Since we are discussing our histories as potential models, I'll add mine: I was asked by friends to go into the modeling business because I had a good sense of clothes and an interest in them even in my teens. At that time, I was 5'-8", 115 lbs, and had a lot of black hair and brown eyes. And what Indians call a "fair" complexion -- like almost all cultures, Indians were (and are still) obsessed with light skin. I was also considered handsome by whatever standards people used in that society. I found all this somewhat embarrassing, to be honest. Anyway, I had no interest in such things, any more than in taking up the advice of the Indian Army major who suggested, during National Service in the NCC, that I become a sniper for the Army!

Around this time, a budding young director who had founded India's second film society (I was active in this organization) and is now an important filmmaker, asked me to take the leading role in his first directorial venture in art cinema. He even persuaded me to do a sort of screen test. But I refused, saying I really had little interest in acting, I wanted to pursue a scientific career. A couple of years later, another director made me an offer to star as leading man, again in an artistic film (as opposed to the commercial song-and-dance spectaculars). Again I turned that offer down for the same reason mentioned earlier.

My interest in clothes, their history and sociology, and their impact, has continued, though.


----------



## Oldsarge

A local photographer once asked me (after I'd become enamored with tweed and grown a beard) if I was interested in modeling. This was about the time my wife passed away and I had no interest in much of anything. Now? I think I'll apply to law school. Lewis and Clark has a renowned Environmental Law program and I have very personal reasons for being interested.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

The young lad looks absolutely charming in whites. I have a feeling they are sailing out to the Caribbean islands to play cricket. (Whites were worn traditionally by cricketers, and although coloured uniforms for shorter matches are now quite standard, Test matches between two nations are still played wearing whites).


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## fred johnson

Enough with the pinned button down collars!


----------



## Fading Fast

fred johnson said:


> Enough with the pinned button down collars!


LOL. I've had to become quite Zen about it as I like so much of what Ralph does that I can't let this crazy tic of his bother me.

I really like the outfit the gentleman at the train station is wearing. Other than the pinned button-down collar that you note, I'd swap out the socks for a beige pair that blended with the pants as the shoes create enough splash at his feet that green socks are too much IMO. With those two adjustments, I'd love to wear that outfit.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 52389


You can keep the shirt, but I want that incredible jacket. Those pockets cause me to have "day dreams about night things, in the early, early hours of the morning." (apologies to Ronnie Milsap, but just thinkin!)


----------



## drpeter

I picked up a similar jacket, Eagle, at some point in the summer. It is a mid-grey/brown, medium thick tweed jacket, and has a two-button front, bellows pockets and a throat latch. I think it has suede elbow patches as well, but I am not certain. 

I find the bellows pockets a nice touch, giving it the air of a jacket worn in the country. You can walk about, find things like sticks and stones, the occasional love letter or ransom note, even secret documents left by foreign spies in the cavities of tree trunks, and stuff them all into the ample pockets. Very useful.


----------



## Fading Fast

A little fun for Sunday.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> A little fun for Sunday.
> View attachment 52413


With the outside air temps standing at just 51 degrees on our front porch, this would be a fine morning for a rousing game of touch football. I can't help but wonder if Paddington Bear would like to join in? LOL.

PS: Great rig, with the layered cardigans!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> With the outside air temps standing at just 51 degrees on our front porch, this would be a fine morning for a rousing game of touch football. I can't help but wonder if Paddington Bear would like to join in? LOL.
> 
> PS: Great rig, with the layered cardigans!


I kinda like it too. Maybe a bit too Ralphy - the striped pants separates are very '30s Apparel Arts, but today we see those as an orphaned suit separate, while the socks break the harmony of the simply blues and grays - but still, he looks great. I love that he has a pinned club collar (not Ralph's silly pinned unbuttoned OCBD collar).


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> With the outside air temps standing at just 51 degrees on our front porch, this would be a fine morning for a rousing game of touch football. I can't help but wonder if Paddington Bear would like to join in? LOL.
> 
> PS: Great rig, with the layered cardigans!


Paddington Bear is different from Polo Bear, and while both are delightful, neither can come close to the grand-daddy of all bears -- I speak of none other than the great Pooh Bear, also known as Winnie. Yes, he who claimed that his troubles spelling words correctly arise from the fact that "the letters are all too wobbly".

I know, I am beginning to sound like a Bear Partisan. And we haven't begun to talk about those charming Berenstain Bears.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Paddington Bear is different from Polo Bear, and while both are delightful, neither can come close to the grand-daddy of all bears -- I speak of none other than the great Pooh Bear, also known as Winnie. Yes, he who claimed that his troubles spelling words correctly arise from the fact that "the letters are all too wobbly".
> 
> I know, I am beginning to sound like a Bear Partisan. And we haven't begun to talk about those charming Berenstain Bears.


As a fan of all the bears noted, it is fair to say that Paddington was more of a Trad dresser than Pooh who blazed his own sartorial trail.

Paddington in his classic toggle-duffle coat:








(N.B., the second Paddington Bear movie is better than the first one - a rarity in a sequel.)

And if we are mentioning famous movie bears, let us not forget Aloysius from "Brideshead Revisited." While he liked to go _au naturel_, his friends were pretty spiffy dressers.


----------



## drpeter

Paddington looks very spiffy in his beautiful duffel coat. I have one almost identical, except that the colour is a midnight blue on mine, while the Bear above sports a coat of a dark royal blue, if I were to hazard a guess.

_Brideshead_ had good production values and so the clothing was quite authentic looking for the time period covered. Anthony Andrews seems to have disapppeared from the film scene, although Jeremy Irons is still active. I recently listened to Eliot's Four Quartets being read by Irons in his beautiful, sonorous voice. It is on the web, but fairly long. On this, you have to get past some of the initial guff, Irons begins at 7:53. "Time present and time past..."

https://jeremyirons.net/2014/01/18/jeremy-irons-reads-ts-eliots-four-quartets/


----------



## Oldsarge

Andrews most recently did _The Professor and the Madman_ in 2019.


----------



## drpeter

Missed that one, Walter! Thanks for letting me know the old fellow is still active.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Very nice.

I have Black Watch in a three button Corbin sports jacket, a pair of Scottish slacks, a waistcoat, and a tie, although there are differences in shade among them. But I do not have this tartan in a DB jacket. I do keep an eye out for one, though. With the luck I have been having for months in the thrifting department, I have a feeling I will find a BW DB jacket one of these days.


----------



## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> Paddington Bear is different from Polo Bear, and while both are delightful, neither can come close to the grand-daddy of all bears -- I speak of none other than the great Pooh Bear, also known as Winnie. Yes, he who claimed that his troubles spelling words correctly arise from the fact that "the letters are all too wobbly".
> 
> I know, I am beginning to sound like a Bear Partisan. And we haven't begun to talk about those charming Berenstain Bears.


You, Sir, do know your bears much better than I. I, without contest, stand corrected, my good man! LOL.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> As a fan of all the bears noted, it is fair to say that Paddington was more of a Trad dresser than Pooh who blazed his own sartorial trail.
> 
> Paddington in his classic toggle-duffle coat:
> View attachment 52459
> 
> (N.B., the second Paddington Bear movie is better than the first one - a rarity in a sequel.)
> 
> And if we are mentioning famous movie bears, let us not forget Aloysius from "Brideshead Revisited." While he liked to go _au naturel_, his friends were pretty spiffy dressers.


My friend, you should cross post this to the British Country Clothing Thread.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## FiscalDean

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 52547


Overall, I really like the outfit but that tie has to go.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Old Road Dog

Merry Christmas, gentlemen!


----------



## drpeter

Thanks, and Merry Christmas to you too. And to all on the forums, of course.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> Thanks, and Merry Christmas to you too. And to all on the forums, of course.


Yes, a Merry Christmas to all!


----------



## drpeter

TKI67 said:


> Yes, a Merry Christmas to all!


I'm glad you're back. I haven't seen you in these forums in a while. I trust you are well.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 52630


Merry Christmas to the Brotherhood!


----------



## eagle2250

TKI67 said:


> Yes, a Merry Christmas to all!


It is great hearing from you, my friend! Hope to see you around here on a more frequent basis.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> I'm glad you're back. I haven't seen you in these forums in a while. I trust you are well.


I am well. Thanks.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 52648


I rather like the rigs in this one, but I must tell you, the cutoff shorts are visually troubling. If it is too warm to wear long pants, it is too warm to wear a blazer! Just a thought.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I rather like the rigs in this one, but I must tell you, the cutoff shorts are visually troubling. If it is too warm to wear long pants, it is too warm to wear a blazer! Just a thought.


The more of these Ralph ads we see, the move I believe they all but have a rule to make sure at least one thing in the ad is "off" or "daring" or something like that as if Ralph's goal is to make sure that most of his ads "tweak" the traditional look in some small or large way.

We see him do this by, many times, using a tie bar with a button-down collar, pairing aggressively ripped pants with an otherwise classic sport-coat-and-tie rig or putting an incredibly large logo or crest on one or several of the items in an outfit.

To be sure, he does put out some very classic looks in his ads (often times for his Purple Label line), so it's not really a rule, but it does happen a lot.


----------



## 215339

What's everyone's thoughts on patchwork?

I used to hate it, as I only ever saw the "Go To Hell" versions.

Seeing these from Ralph quickly changed my mind, I think these look jaw dropping.


















I think @Peak and Pine posted the last one before.

To me they look tastefully done. They have a dusty, approachable vibe to them that looks cozy.

That brings me to Beams Plus. A Japanese brand that seems to smush together aspects of streetwear, workwear, and ivy.

d4nimal from Styleforum had a great blog post regarding their patchwork coats.

https://afine-toothcomb.blogspot.com/2020/11/my-coat-of-many-colors-beams-plus.html
There were two Harris Tweed collaborations in 2015

I really like how these look, but I dig the brown one the most.


Spoiler: Beams Plus x Harris Tweed 2015






















Then Beams Plus came out with some more coats this fall.



Spoiler: Beams Plus Corduroy Print






















I ended up ordering the grey corduroy one up there, excited to receive it. Should make for a great spring/fall coat. The brown one looks better, but the grey one would work better in my wardrobe, otherwise it would be tan/khaki/brown overload based on how I dress.


----------



## 215339

Beams Plus 2018 lookbook that someone put together on reddit. Overall I really dig their aesthetic, minus the cropped pants.

I'm not one to take lookbooks so literally though, so not a big deal.



http://imgur.com/a/LeIMYIV


----------



## Oldsarge

the Beams Balmacaan is especially fine.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ So, nobody liked the insanely expensive bear sweater, perhaps because it's nuts (no offense to the bear intended - it's not his fault).

⇩ Okay then, let's return to a more classic Ralph look, with unfortunately, a too-tight and too-low rise suit. Love the combo, need to upsize the suit.


----------



## drpeter

The chap on the pedestal looks none too happy about the lad's outfit. I like his outfit, but it's all white.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ So, nobody liked the insanely expensive bear sweater, perhaps because it's nuts (no offense to the bear intended - it's not his fault).
> 
> ⇩ Okay then, let's return to a more classic Ralph look, with unfortunately, a too-tight and too-low rise suit. Love the combo, need to upsize the suit.
> View attachment 52719


While agreeing with everything you said, I would also up size the sweater vest and the bow tie BTW, nice bust!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Faust

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 52761


A very classic look. I don't think you will ever see RL returning to this approach anytime soon. Great shirt/tie combo with a collar pin.


----------



## Fading Fast

Cross post with the Tweed thread.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Cross post with the Tweed thread.
> View attachment 52802


The young man knows how to layer...not well, but he's doing it. In truth, I don't blame the model, but rather, I blame Ralph for the 'hot mess' providing our visual entertainment. My advice would be to tuck in his shirt, roll down his cuffs, get his left hand out of that pocket and get a decent pair of jeans. Oh, and get rid of that pocket square. If he's too lazy to put on a tie, leave the square at home! Just the thoughts of your resident curmudgeon. LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> The young man knows how to layer...not well, but he's doing it. In truth, I don't blame the model, but rather, I blame Ralph for the 'hot mess' providing our visual entertainment. My advice would be to tuck in his shirt, roll down his cuffs, get his left hand out of that pocket and get a decent pair of jeans. Oh, and get rid of that pocket square. If he's too lazy to put on a tie, leave the square at home! Just the thoughts of your resident curmudgeon. LOL.


Funny, I saw the stuff you did, but the thing that bothered me the most (the PS was close behind) is the hoodie with the sport coat and not from some fussy nothing-can-ever-change attitude, but the neckline looks awful to me.

Had he worn a navy crewneck sweatshirt with that sport coat it would have worked in a modern way as sweatshirts are simply much more acceptable today. That said, a plain or nearly plain sweatshirt would look much better with a sport coat than one with all that stuff on it. The stuff is fine, if that's your thing (it isn't mine), if he had worn the hoodie alone.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Oldsarge

He needs to take the sweater out of his cords!


----------



## drpeter

I love the colours: browns, olives, faded red, etc.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 52877


All so well and nicely done.......for a Ralph composition!


----------



## drpeter

There's a suit I would love to have. I do have a POW plaid suit in a soft flannel, but not in browns and creams.

Let's hope the New Year brings good things for our exhausted world. I am ready for an _annus mirabilis_.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

It all looks good, except for the sockless feet (if that is what they are). Personally, I would not be able to leave my house dressed to the nines, but with bare feet in shoes.


----------



## Fading Fast

Ralph's a massively successful designer and I'm a nobody, but those patterns look terrible combined in that outfit IMO.


----------



## drpeter

Agreed. The mistake here is that the pattern on the tie is too close in type, colour and size to that of the suit. It should have been a contrasting colour, like purple or red, and perhaps a solid. Even a bright and complex tartan would have been all right. And the shirt should have been a simple white or a pale grey, or even one with very thin, close stripes of a light colour on white. 

It is possible to have patterns next to one another in suit, shirt and tie, but the orchestration of such effects requires somewhat more imagination than that displayed here, I'm sorry to say. The old Duke of Windsor could pull it off, but he was a cut above the advertising chaps who dressed this model. I'm surprised the model did not have the sense to object to what was being draped on his body, LOL.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 52926
> 
> 
> Ralph's a massively successful designer and I'm a nobody, but those patterns look terrible combined in that outfit IMO.


I am in complete agreement with your assessment. The above does indeed offer a hint of a young Paul Newman, before he learned to properly dress himself. His pattern matching needs some work. However , never consider yourself a nobody regarding sartorial issues. IMHO you are instructively and enjoyably well informed with regard to sartorial as well as to so many other issues. It is my opinion that you are potentially a modern day Renaissance Man! I am always learning from your posts.


----------



## drpeter

As am I. Keep up the great work, Faders!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I am in complete agreement with your assessment. The above does indeed offer a hint of a young Paul Newman, before he learned to properly dress himself. His pattern matching needs some work. However , never consider yourself a nobody regarding sartorial issues. IMHO you are instructively and enjoyably well informed with regard to sartorial as well as to so many other issues. It is my opinion that you are potentially a modern day Renaissance Man! I am always learning from your posts.


I didn't see the Newman thing till you said it, but it's "obvious" to me now in the mouth and eyes in particular. And thank you and @drpeter for the kinds comments.


----------



## drpeter

Same here. I didn't recognize it either, but yes the mouth and eyes have the visual echoes of a young Newman. Eagle eyes!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 52972


To my eye and discounting my litany of standard compliants, this is one of Ralph's better efforts. Although that jacket is a really busy plaid design and I think perhaps too busy to pair with that shirt. Considered separately the components are all pretty darned nice.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> To my eye and discounting my litany of standard compliants, this is one of Ralph's better efforts. Although that jacket is a really busy plaid design and I think perhaps too busy to pair with that shirt. Considered separately the components are all pretty darned nice.


Other than the Ralph silliness with the tie bar on what I think is a button-down collar and the nonsense with the jacket and shirt cuffs, I really liked the combo, especially the jacket and pants. While I'd have gone with a solid shirt, like you note, as that jacket has all the pattern one needs, I think the shirt is okay with the outfit. Overall, like you, despite my small quibbles, I really liked this outfit too.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Oldsarge

THIS I like!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 53084


Is that a three piece cotton canvas suit? Sure looks like it. :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Is that a three piece cotton canvas suit? Sure looks like it. :icon_scratch:


Hard to tell from the pic as, at least on my screen, I can't see the weave, but my guess was chino (twill) not canvas, but could be either. And I only guessed chino because I have seen Ralph make chino suits before, but (from memory, for what that is worth) not canvas ones.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## GRH

Fading Fast said:


> Hard to tell from the pic as, at least on my screen, I can't see the weave, but my guess was chino (twill) not canvas, but could be either. And I only guessed chino because I have seen Ralph make chino suits before, but (from memory, for what that is worth) not canvas ones.


Chino or "duck," just the thing for beach combers, safari hangers-on, and remittance men.


----------



## drpeter

Now there's a colonial term -- remittance man!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 53170


Purple is not a hue I would advertise with to promote sales, but then Ralph has made a lot more money selling clothes that I ever will.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Purple is not a hue I would advertise with to promote sales, but then Ralph has made a lot more money selling clothes that I ever will.


He's had an affinity for purple for along time. It's not a color, other than subdued as part of the pattern in a tie, I have in any article of clothing, but Ralph really likes it.


----------



## drpeter

You're right, RL has had a love of purple for a long time -- I haven't followed his stuff closely, but isn't there a Purple Label collection?

I have several purple ties, smooth silks, grenadines, and also patterns in which it is one of the colours. I really love the effect created by a simple purple tie and white shirt, when worn together with a quality grey flannel suit. However, this may be just me, but a purple tie seems much more appropriate with a long or short point collar, or even a tab or club collar, than with a button-down collar.

I feel this way because the button-down is to my mind the most informal of collars, which is why it is terrific with OCBD shirts, repp or grenadine or wool knit ties, and tweed jackets. It is also fine with casual suits, especially checks and plaids, or with summer suits (tan or grey poplin, seersucker, etc.)
But with dark worsted or flannel suits, I think a non-button-down collar may look better. Just my preference, that is all. And purple, especially in darker shades, is too formal a colour to go with informal ensembles.

_Very_ light shades or variations of purple like magenta or mauve, can be good colors for shirts, especially when worn with jackets that are light to mid-grey. The grey and purple combination is very elegant in a subdued sort of way, and I have often received enthusiastic compliments on purple ties worn with white or pink shirts and Oxford grey flannel suits.


----------



## Oldsarge

drpeter said:


> Now there's a colonial term -- remittance man!


Had I lived then, that would have been my life's goal.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ I thought the sport coat would garner some comments.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ I thought the sport coat would garner some comments.
> 
> View attachment 53267


I really liked the sport coat to which you refer, but I didn't say anything because there were other details of the photo for which I didn't have an appreciation, such as wearing a tie with an unbuttoned collar, the layered polo shirt with the popped collar, the pocket square, etc. I don't want you or anyone else to think I am sitting back waiting for something to pick apart. I greatly respect what your contributions to this and other threads brings to our AAAC community and I do not want you to think otherwise. Thanks for listening, or would that be for reading, my friend! 

PS: Ralph and his iconic beauty take an incredible picture!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I really liked the sport coat to which you refer, but I didn't say anything because there were other details of the photo for which I didn't have an appreciation, such as wearing a tie with an unbuttoned collar, the layered polo shirt with the popped collar, the pocket square, etc. I don't want you or anyone else to think I am sitting back waiting for something to pick apart. I greatly respect what your contributions to this and other threads brings to our AAAC community and I do not want you to think otherwise. Thanks for listening, or would that be for reading, my friend!
> 
> PS: Ralph and his iconic beauty take an incredible picture!


Thank you for the thoughtful response. I genuinely meant my comment in a lighthearted way as I view our community here as friendly, so that comment was suppose to be as if, at an office-cooler conversation, I had said, "hey, no comments on my new tie."

I have the same fear about being negative as I sometimes don't make a comment as I don't want to seem like "that guy" that's just sitting back waiting to be snarky. The good news is that so many really nice-looking outfits are posted in various thread and so many really smart and insightful comments are made, that there's plenty of positive to comment on.

As to the glasses-wearing guy, I like the sport coat and could almost (not quite) get okay with the polo shirt as a "sweater" over the shirt and tie, but not with the collar popped as that almost always looks affected to my eye and, in this already studied outfit, takes it way over the top.

Thank you again, I appreciate your comments.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

I liked the jacket but envision it with Oxford grey flannels, a blue OCBD (with the collar buttoned down), a yellow lambswool sweater vest, and no tie.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 53294


Amazing...the rig, the dog, the automobile, the luggage; I love everything about that catalogue cover shot!


----------



## Oldsarge

I would ditch the sweater. It's superfluous. But the rest? Top drawer.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 53349


In a cooler climate I could learn to love that flight jacket. Although I am not sure I could ever bring myself to wear an ascot with it, That just seems a bit too costumey. The orange 'quarter zip' is also appealing.


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Fading Fast

Ralph Fashion Show Spring 2020


----------



## Fading Fast

More Men's Spring 2020 Fashion from Ralph:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> More Men's Spring 2020 Fashion from Ralph:
> View attachment 53480


The trousers are so bright, sunglasses are recommended, but the rest of the rig is rather pleasing to the eye.


----------



## Fading Fast

Ralph Fall 2016


----------



## peterc

As long as I see forward pleats, I am a happy man.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 53537


Classic! Just to be sure, that is a young Ralph Lauren we are looking at...right?


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Classic! Just to be sure, that is a young Ralph Lauren we are looking at...right?


There was no caption, but it looks like him to me.


----------



## drpeter

The farthest tips of those lapels are actually touching -- or maybe even going past -- the seams at the sleeveheads! That is about the widest lapel width I have seen -- probably 5-plus inches?


----------



## 215339

Styleforum member UrbanComposition bought the patchwork Balmacaan!


----------



## Fading Fast

Fall 2008


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> The farthest tips of those lapels are actually touching -- or maybe even going past -- the seams at the sleeveheads! That is about the widest lapel width I have seen -- probably 5-plus inches?


It is a trout fishing jacket. You may keep any fish longer than your lapel is wide.


----------



## FiscalDean

TKI67 said:


> It is a trout fishing jacket. You may keep any fish longer than your lapel is wide.


Catch and release is the way to go


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

FiscalDean said:


> Catch and release is the way to go


I completely agree. In fact, I want to try hookless fly fishing, the "take" being my favorite moment and test of skills.


----------



## drpeter

TKI67 said:


> It is a trout fishing jacket. You may keep any fish longer than your lapel is wide.


Given that, I think he should have worn one of those amazing fishing vests with about 200 tiny pockets all over...


----------



## Fading Fast

More Fall 2008


----------



## Old Road Dog

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 53537


----------



## Old Road Dog

Belated confirmation that the young Ralph pictured is circa 1968-70. I'm not sure who produced the clothing he is wearing; perhaps it was by Roland Meledandri, who would die some years later at the untimely age of just 51. The age of Ralph in that photo is maybe 30-ish.


----------



## Fading Fast

One more from Fall 2008.


----------



## Fading Fast

Something fun for Friday and a cross post with the Tweed thread:


----------



## drpeter

This bear would look great mounted on the handlebars of one of my vintage Raleigh three-speeds, as I go on the Tweed Ride. (Full disclosure, I have yet to go on any Tweed Ride, although cycling pals have urged me to do so)


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> Something fun for Friday and a cross post with the Tweed thread:
> View attachment 53725


I just got a Southwick in that tweed at the O'Connell's sale, sized to fit the new smaller me. The bear looks so dapper in it. It is truly the all time classic tweed. As for riding a bike in it, why not, especially with a ride as elegant as a vintage Raleigh.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Old Road Dog

That Ralph photo is the cover shot from an old issue of Menswear magazine, which I still have tucked away somewhere. I'm guessing, late 70's-early 80's, when he was really hitting his stride and they were literally turning away potential retail store accounts.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 53799


Nice picture of Ralph, but I must ask, what kind of buckle are we seeing on his belt? Is it some sort of "cut out" western buckle? Such would certainly go with the rig.


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 53844


My mama always said "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all," and I consider that to be pretty sound advice. However, I must tell you, while I have used my old BDU trousers for hunting and working in the yard, I can't imagine ever wearing them for social outings. "Ralph," are you listening? LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> My mama always said "if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all," and I consider that to be pretty sound advice. However, I must tell you, while I have used my old BDU trousers for hunting and working in the yard, I can't imagine ever wearing them for social outings. "Ralph," are you listening? LOL.


Over the last decade or so, camouflage clothing seemed to go somewhat mainstream, but like you, it still looks off to me in anything but the most casual and outdoorsy outfit.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

No.

But the two Corgis (if that's their tribe) are ravishingly beautiful. As is that cognac WWII-style leather satchel at 9 o'clock. And the large leather trunk (if that's what it is) in deep brown, just beginning to get mottled with age, perhaps.

But not the lads, who need to learn not to put all their clothes in the hot cycle of their washing machine. Or to stop stealing their younger brothers' clothes. Or never to take advice from (M)ad men about pattern and colour matching in clothes.

Subtract the boys from the scene, and it becomes transformed. Two noble animals with their luggage on a bench. Grass, water, sunlight. What could be more lovely?


----------



## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> No.
> 
> But the two Corgis (if that's their tribe) are ravishingly beautiful. As is that cognac WWII-style leather satchel at 9 o'clock. And the large leather trunk (if that's what it is) in deep brown, just beginning to get mottled with age, perhaps.
> 
> But not the lads, who need to learn not to put all their clothes in the hot cycle of their washing machine. Or to stop stealing their younger brothers' clothes. Or never to take advice from (M)ad men about pattern and colour matching in clothes.
> 
> Subtract the boys from the scene, and it becomes transformed. Two noble animals with their luggage on a bench. Grass, water, sunlight. What could be more lovely?


Well said, my friend. I completely agree with every word you typed in your response!


----------



## fred johnson

His ads aside, has anyone ever seen or have a picture of Uncle ralph in a button down collar shirt? I don't recall ever seeing such a photo over the years.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> Well said, my friend. I completely agree with every word you typed in your response!


Thank you, Eagle, it means a lot coming from you.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 53911


Jeez Louise, he gets the rig almost perfect and then screws it up by popping that damned collar on the blazer. In spite of all the great counsel to the contrary we offer in this Thread, Ralph's just going to keep doing it his way! Harrumph, harrumph!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Jeez Louise, he gets the rig almost perfect and then screws it up by popping that damned collar on the blazer. In spite of all the great counsel to the contrary we offer in this Thread, Ralph's just going to keep doing it his way! Harrumph, harrumph!


And the blazer itself is at least one size too small (and short).


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> Jeez Louise, he gets the rig almost perfect and then screws it up by popping that damned collar on the blazer. In spite of all the great counsel to the contrary we offer in this Thread, Ralph's just going to keep doing it his way! Harrumph, harrumph!


Clearly not the case here, but I do remember turning the collars up all the way on sport jackets, including blazers, to keep warm. Of course that is not the same as popping, the partial turn up. I recall wishing there were a button and button hole at the top of the lapel for this rather than a sole, lonely, vestigial buttonhole used only on Armistice Day for a poppy.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> Clearly not the case here, but I do remember turning the collars up all the way on sport jackets, including blazers, to keep warm. Of course that is not the same as popping, the partial turn up. I recall wishing there were a button and button hole at the top of the lapel for this rather than a sole, lonely, vestigial buttonhole used only on Armistice Day for a poppy.


You actually need a throat latch. A few tweed I've owned over the years have had one.


----------



## Fading Fast

From a Polo email this week that was titled "Tailored Tweeds: Spring heritage tweed fabrication, woven for a lightweight feel that's perfect for the season." ["Spring heritage tweed fabrication" yeah, sure, whatever Ralph]. Cross post with the Tweed thread.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> From a Polo email this week that was titled "Tailored Tweeds: Spring heritage tweed fabrication, woven for a lightweight feel that's perfect for the season." ["Spring heritage tweed fabrication" yeah, sure, whatever Ralph]. Cross post with the Tweed thread.
> View attachment 53957


I have always liked those tones, seen paired to fine effect in A Room with a View.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> You actually need a throat latch. A few tweed I've owned over the years have had one.


I had a Harris tweed Norfolk coat my father had made in the mid-1930s that had one. Sadly, it is no longer around.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> I have always liked those tones, seen paired to fine effect in A Room with a View.


Good call. It has an echo of "Brideshead Revisited" too.


----------



## London380sl

I have a very similar jacket to the standing individual with the fedora though you'd never catch me wearing a sweater like that while wearing it. Sans jacket yes - do it all the time. Jacket on - no.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> From a Polo email this week that was titled "Tailored Tweeds: Spring heritage tweed fabrication, woven for a lightweight feel that's perfect for the season." ["Spring heritage tweed fabrication" yeah, sure, whatever Ralph]. Cross post with the Tweed thread.
> View attachment 53957


Do people really do that in real life? If you are not going to wear the sweater, leave it at home. At least the guy sitting in the chair is trying to be discrete, he is sitting on his unworn sweater, keeping it mostly out of sight. LOL.


----------



## fishertw

eagle2250 said:


> Do people really do that in real life? If you are not going to wear the sweater, leave it at home. At least the guy sitting in the chair is trying to be discrete, he is sitting on his unworn sweater, keeping it mostly out of sight. LOL.


"stylin'"


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 53998


I like the old school hiking boots, a fashion touch that reminds me of the PNW in the early 1970s.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 53998


Is that a cape he is wearing or just a coat, worn like a cape? Ditto on TKI67's assessment of the boots. They remind me of the Red Wing Irish Setter boots I wore so often during my teen years. I spent a lot of time in the woods.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Is that a cape he is wearing or just a coat, worn like a cape? Ditto on TKI67's assessment of the boots. They remind me of the Red Wing Irish Setter boots I wore so often during my teen years. I spent a lot of time in the woods.


I think I spy sleeves, so I'm going with coat.

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the elephant in the room, which, ironically, is a well-dressed bear.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> I think I spy sleeves, so I'm going with coat.
> 
> I'm surprised nobody mentioned the elephant in the room, which, ironically, is a well-dressed bear.


It is indeed a more well dressed than average bear, but is it wearing a sweater around its waist while wearing a blazer? That seems a bit much.


----------



## drpeter

My eyes must be getting prematurely old at 70 -- I did not even see the bear, probably because I think of bears as sitting somewhere else other than the chest of a man -- unless of course the man is dinner for the bear.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> It is indeed a more well dressed than average bear, but is it wearing a sweater around its waist while wearing a blazer? That seems a bit much.


I always give him some latitude as he's clearly trying and so many bears don't even make the effort to put pants on.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> Is that a cape he is wearing or just a coat, worn like a cape? Ditto on TKI67's assessment of the boots. They remind me of the Red Wing Irish Setter boots I wore so often during my teen years. I spent a lot of time in the woods.


Actually the bear should be wearing a sweater and a cape and the sweater should be showing an image of the man wearing the sweater and the cape...so there is a kind of infinite regression.


----------



## Oldsarge

If my legs were the same length, I'd have a pair of Red Wings in the rack. But since I am well equipped with Russell's that were made to fit my anatomical eccentricities, I'll put them off. However, should I add a hunting cocker to the pack and get seriously back into bird shooting, that could change . . .


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Oldsarge said:


> If my legs were the same length, I'd have a pair of Red Wings in the rack. But since I am well equipped with Russell's that were made to fit my anatomical eccentricities, I'll put them off. However, should I add a hunting cocker to the pack and get seriously back into bird shooting, that could change . . .


Even if you no longer shoot, bird dogs are excellent company and exercise. My two rescue setters, nearing 9 and 10, need a fair number of daily walks and then warm my feet as I read. Go for it.


----------



## Oldsarge

And the poodle is always on the lookout for a new playmate.


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 53998


Love the Polo line's style in general, though very few Polo pieces. However, have never understood Lauren's design fascination with teddy bears. Have always thought it looked ridiculous. Also not a fan of a lot of logos on clothes be it "Polo" or ungodly large polo players.


----------



## irish95

It amazes me you guys are somewhat befuddled and unable to comprehend that these are ads used to provoke and create interest. I’ve worn my collars on sport coats and 1/4 zip sweaters “up” for years. It’s a great look, but takes “guts” as it seams to bother many folks as being a little over the top. My guess is most of you guys commenting are a tad older and my recommendation is you should all try it. It might make you look and feel younger. Who cares what people think, you might be surprised. What do you have to lose. Crew neck sweaters and plaid shirts gets old at some point. My .02.


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## drpeter

irish95 said:


> It amazes me you guys are somewhat befuddled and unable to comprehend that these are ads used to provoke and create interest. I've worn my collars on sport coats and 1/4 zip sweaters "up" for years. It's a great look, but takes "guts" as it seams to bother many folks as being a little over the top. My guess is most of you guys commenting are a tad older and my recommendation is you should all try it. It might make you look and feel younger. Who cares what people think, you might be surprised. What do you have to lose. Crew neck sweaters and plaid shirts gets old at some point. My .02.


Well, my dear sir, I for one dress simply for myself. I wear what I please. By the way, I routinely wear those zip sweaters with the collars popped. I also wear my sportcoats with the collar up when wind or weather calls for it. A variety of other, less formal, coats and jackets, as well as more formal overcoats are worn in this fashion -- sometimes buttoned, sometimes open, with the collars up or down as the fancy takes me. I've worn red sportcoats with grey flannels. I've worn suits with Indian rounded-collar jackets and a splash of colour in the breast pocket to formal events. I've never had an adverse reaction to these things.

I rather doubt if dressing as you please takes much in the way of "guts". Come now, we aren't exactly talking about the storming of the Bastille here, are we? I'm agreeing with you, but simply saying that those of us a tad older also dress as we please, and are not locked into rigid rules, at least not all of us. And it's not a question of wanting to recapture lost youth, the principal obsession of our culture, which I don't share. But when I see something that, to me at least, looks aesthetically bad, I comment on it, whether it is Ralph Lauren or Walmart Boutique. And as for provoking interest, I feel that the RL efforts at advertising provokes pity rather than interest. But hey, I may be wrong, maybe it really provokes admiration from guys who are a tad younger.

The reverse of this phenomenon is also true. I have had younger colleagues at the university where I worked often comment on my practice of wearing socks with my Birkenstocks in cooler weather -- they thought it was some sort of fashion faux-pas. I have calmly reminded them that I am perfectly happy with what I wear, and if others don't like it, that's their problem. So the young can have their rigid rules as well.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

That looks like a bust of old Bertie, King George VI. The satchel or briefcase on the top shelf looks beautiful.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 54061


I've never had one, but I do like that waffle weave sweater. However, I can't imagine turned up legs on my Levis!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I've never had one, but I do like that waffle weave sweater. However, I can't imagine turned up legs on my Levis!


At the height of the Hipster thing, turned up legs on jeans were everywhere in NYC. I never did it as, when I was a kid, it simply meant your jeans were too long or too new and hadn't shrunk enough yet.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> I've never had one, but I do like that waffle weave sweater. However, I can't imagine turned up legs on my Levis!


Sadly now and then my 501s need to be turned up. They ride low, and I have a 28" inseam, pretty much impossible to find. I am thinking of trying something else, something a little more trim. I suppose they'll still be too long.


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 54061


I never used to like the sport coat with jeans look. But retired nearly 2 years ago and had some sport coats I still wanted to wear on occasion-a Harris tweed and several camel hair. Took to wearing them with jeans and think the look is just fine. However, I do think for the look to work well the jacket should have some notable texture to it such as tweed or camel hair. I, too, never embraced the turned up cuffs look with jeans.


----------



## Fading Fast

Tweedlover said:


> I never used to like the sport coat with jeans look. But retired nearly 2 years ago and had some sport coats I still wanted to wear on occasion-a Harris tweed and several camel hair. Took to wearing them with jeans and think the look is just fine. However, I do think for the look to work well the jacket should have some notable texture to it such as tweed or camel hair. I, too, never embraced the turned up cuffs look with jeans.


As a kid growing up in the '70s, I had examples like Robert Redford in "Three Days of the Condor" that had me wearing sport coats and jeans as soon as I owned a Tweed sport coat, which wasn't until after I graduated college. I respect that some don't like the look, but I never had a doubt about it from day one. But as you note, IMHO, it only works with jackets with noticeable texture.

Redford in "Three Days of the Condor:"
















@Tweedlover - Welcome to AAAC.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

To me one of the better jackets to wear with jeans is the large glen plaid. They were popular in the '60s and '70s but have recently begun to reappear. I posted mine (not with jeans) on 10/25/2020 on the "What are you wearing?" thread.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> As a kid growing up in the '70s, I had examples like Robert Redford in "Three Days of the Condor" that had me wearing sport coats and jeans as soon as I owned a Tweed sport coat, which wasn't until after I graduated college. I respect that some don't like the look, but I never had a doubt about it from day one. But as you note, IMHO, it only works with jackets with noticeable texture.
> 
> Redford in "Three Days of the Condor:"
> View attachment 54064
> View attachment 54065
> 
> 
> @Tweedlover - Welcome to AAAC.


I thought of these photos as I read a recent exchange on the topic of popped collars on jackets. I think it is a nice look.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> I thought of these photos as I read a recent exchange on the topic of popped collars on jackets. I think it is a nice look.


What I like about his popped collar is that you can tell it's function driven. It's a cold fall day and he's popping it for warmth. Of course, it doesn't hurt that he's freakin' Robert Redford.


----------



## Oldsarge

My favorite jacket with jeans is always corduroy. Tweed is great but cord is better.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Oldsarge said:


> My favorite jacket with jeans is always corduroy. Tweed is great but cord is better.


Agreed, but talk about a jacket that has largely disappeared!


----------



## drpeter

@TKI67 Do you mean corduroy is not worn much any more in general? Does that mean it's not worn by older men either? I have several and I do wear mine about as often as my other sports jackets and blazers -- which is not very much, these days, but pre-Covid, I wore them all somewhat more frequently. Before I retired, sport coats were part of my "work uniform", and corduroy jackets were part of those outfits.

I can't say I wear jeans very much, though. Until the last year or so, I had a hard time finding comfortable jeans. Now I have a couple of pairs of NOS Land's End jeans that are comfortable.


----------



## peterc

Robert Redford's clothes in The Way We Were, although probably not RL, were very trad in my opinion, and amazing. What a great movie. Never saw it as a kid in 73. Watched it for the first time years later.


----------



## Fading Fast

Tying our recent discussion of Redford to our Ralph thread, I know I've read many times that Ralph designed the clothes for 1974's "The Great Gatsby" staring Mr. Redford. 
















Yowza!


----------



## Old Road Dog

The clothes for that movie were made by Ralph, but not designed by him. The designer (name escapes me) won a Oscar for "best wardrobe". Ralph thought he should have, at least, shared the honor.


----------



## drpeter

The trousers of their suits look surprisingly like the flared bottom pants of the seventies. Was this perhaps a style popular in the twenties in which the novel is set? Or was RL or the designer injecting the seventies style into the clothes, for whatever reason?

The only thing I can think of are the Oxford bags of the twenties, the ridiculously wide-legged trousers that were a British affectation, mercifully short-lived. I'm not sure if they were copied by Americans. If the clothes designer of _The Great Gatsby_ won an Oscar, the awards committee probably checked into the historical accuracy of the styles. Or maybe not.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> @TKI67 Do you mean corduroy is not worn much any more in general? Does that mean it's not worn by older men either? I have several and I do wear mine about as often as my other sports jackets and blazers -- which is not very much, these days, but pre-Covid, I wore them all somewhat more frequently. Before I retired, sport coats were part of my "work uniform", and corduroy jackets were part of those outfits.
> 
> I can't say I wear jeans very much, though. Until the last year or so, I had a hard time finding comfortable jeans. Now I have a couple of pairs of NOS Land's End jeans that are comfortable.


What I meant was only that it is hard to find new corduroy jackets. They, whoever they are, just don't seem to be making them these days. Corduroy pants and even corduroy shirts are easy to find and seem to be widely enjoyed. Most days my "jeans" are fine wale corduroy five pockets from LL Bean. As for true jeans I have worn Levi's 501s since we moved from Virginia to California and I got out of short pants. The cut of 501s seems baggier than it used to, and I am on the lookout for some trimmer jeans.


----------



## Oldsarge

TKI67 said:


> What I meant was only that it is hard to find new corduroy jackets. They, whoever they are, just don't seem to be making them these days. Corduroy pants and even corduroy shirts are easy to find and seem to be widely enjoyed. Most days my "jeans" are fine wale corduroy five pockets from LL Bean. As for true jeans I have worn Levi's 501s since we moved from Virginia to California and I got out of short pants. The cut of 501s seems baggier than it used to, and I am on the lookout for some trimmer jeans.


Indeed, that seems to be the case. Hemrajani used to have wool corduroy material that I deeply regret not have made up into a three-button version for me. Perhaps when the pandemic finally passes and Divij gets back into clothing again, I'll see if I can.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> The trousers of their suits look surprisingly like the flared bottom pants of the seventies. Was this perhaps a style popular in the twenties in which the novel is set? Or was RL or the designer injecting the seventies style into the clothes, for whatever reason?
> 
> The only thing I can think of are the Oxford bags of the twenties, the ridiculously wide-legged trousers that were a British affectation, mercifully short-lived. I'm not sure if they were copied by Americans. If the clothes designer of _The Great Gatsby_ won an Oscar, the awards committee probably checked into the historical accuracy of the styles. Or maybe not.


It's always felt to me as if the clothes in the movie were a combination of '20s style with (sadly) some '70s influences.


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> Indeed, that seems to be the case. Hemrajani used to have wool corduroy material that I deeply regret not have made up into a three-button version for me. Perhaps when the pandemic finally passes and Divij gets back into clothing again, I'll see if I can.


Sarge, I was re-reading the old flannels thread I created in 2018 regarding Boyer's bluish grey flannels. You mentioned that you were going to see if Hemrajani had any flannel cloth with that colour. We were both interested in that material. Did he have any?

I also re-posted Boyer's picture yesterday in my O'Connell's thread. And in a post in that thread, I added a link to the 2018 thread, so you can click that and scroll down to see your comments -- refresh your memory, LOL.


----------



## Oldsarge

To be perfectly honest I don't remember whether I asked him or not. And with the pandemic and the terrible situation in Hong Kong, I'm not sure what he's doing besides making masks. Time to send him an inquiry.
Thanks for the reminder.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 54143


I do believe I just saw Satan ice skating in the street in front of our house...Hell must have frozen over, for I believe I like everything about the rig pictured above! LOL. Nice job, Ralph.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I do believe I just saw Satan ice skating in the street in front of our house...Hell must have frozen over, for I believe I like everything about the rig pictured above! LOL. Nice job, Ralph.


Being persnickety, I thought the tie's and shirt's patterns clashed a bit - not horribly, but there are better choices out there. But away from my pettiness, I did like the outfit, even the nearly matching grays worked in a way that, on paper, I wouldn't think they would have.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Those lapels seem almost like Armani -- drop the gorge an inch and it would get there, LOL. I like many shades of green, but somehow this particular shade in the jacket does not appeal to me. The sweater is great, though.


----------



## Tweedlover

drpeter said:


> Those lapels seem almost like Armani -- drop the gorge an inch and it would get there, LOL. I like many shades of green, but somehow this particular shade in the jacket does not appeal to me. The sweater is great, though.


The tucking into pants of a sweater is not typically what I do. But have 1 overly long one which looks better as a result tucked rather than untucked. I also tuck in my 2 knit long-sleeved polo shirts.


----------



## Fading Fast

I don't like the crewneck sweater without a shirt underneath it, in general, and even more so with a sport coat. But I've noticed it's a look that's become more popular in the past several years.


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> I don't like the crewneck sweater without a shirt underneath it, in general, and even more so with a sport coat. But I've noticed it's a look that's become more popular in the past several years.


I always wear a shirt under a crew neck sweater, though, sometimes it's just a T-shirt.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> Those lapels seem almost like Armani -- drop the gorge an inch and it would get there, LOL. I like many shades of green, but somehow this particular shade in the jacket does not appeal to me. The sweater is great, though.


I usually like multiple greens as well, but this outfit could, in my opinion, use a pop of something like French blue, most likely as a shirt.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 54207


Ralph appears to be wearing a Woolrich red and black Buffalo Plaid check over shirt. Good taste, that! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Ralph appears to be wearing a Woolrich red and black Buffalo Plaid check over shirt. Good taste, that! LOL.


It looks like one to me, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's his RRL brand's version of the same, at four times the cost of the Woolrich.


----------



## Oldsarge

Or merely twice the cost of a Filson.


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> It looks like one to me, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's his RRL brand's version of the same, at four times the cost of the Woolrich.


So true. Am always so amazed how jacked up the price of most RRL pieces are or some other pieces from other RL lines for that matter. Almost as amazed at the number of folks willing to pay those prices. But will say that I have liked a number of RRL designs, though have never bought any RRL pieces.


----------



## Fading Fast

Tweedlover said:


> So true. Am always so amazed how jacked up the price of most RRL pieces are or some other pieces from other RL lines for that matter. Almost as amazed at the number of folks willing to pay those prices. But will say that I have liked a number of RRL designs, though have never bought any RRL pieces.


⇧ Agreed. On deep sale (70% off type of sales), I've bought a few RRL items over the years and they are very nice, but simply, to me, not worth the retail price. I've paid retail, occasionally, for a few Blue Label Ralph items as I think that label did (don't know anymore, as I buy so few clothes anymore) offer fair value at full price, but even there, I usually waited for a sale


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 54253


IMO one of his better put together looks, something I could see wearing in the real world. Also a better than average pose, mien, and shoot.


----------



## Old Road Dog

Much of Ralph's personal sportswear is non-PRL origin. I recall a TV interview with Ralph, at his Telluride ranch, telling Oprah that the flannel shirt he was wearing was from K-Mart. He favors Lee jeans, also. The western belts he typically wears are mostly vintage Native American origin.

With dress clothing he goes with his own brand, but often non-stock models and details.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Agreed. On deep sale (70% off type of sales), I've bought a few RRL items over the years and they are very nice, but simply, to me, not worth the retail price. I've paid retail, occasionally, for a few Blue Label Ralph items as I think that label did (don't know anymore, as I buy so few clothes anymore) offer fair value at full price, but even there, I usually waited for a sale


LOL, even at thrift shops like Goodwill the RL items are hgher in price -- while shirts are generally $5.99, say, the RL shirts would be more like $8.99. Now most of these shirts, from different companies, are pretty much the same in cut and quality, and they are usually made in East Asia and Southeast Asia or perhaps Latin America. But because RL or PRL labels have this name-brand cachet, they command higher prices even at thrift shops.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> IMO one of his better put together looks, something I could see wearing in the real world. Also a better than average pose, mien, and shoot.


Agreed on both the outfit - the sport coat really pulls it all together quite nicely - and the model/shoot.


----------



## Fading Fast

Old Road Dog said:


> Much of Ralph's personal sportswear is non-PRL origin. I recall a TV interview with Ralph, at his Telluride ranch, telling Oprah that the flannel shirt he was wearing was from K-Mart. He favors Lee jeans, also. The western belts he typically wears are mostly vintage Native American origin.
> 
> With dress clothing he goes with his own brand, but often non-stock models and details.


I'm really surprised by this (I'm not doubting you at all) as it seems an odd message to send to your customers.


----------



## Oldsarge

There are always those willing to pay more for the privilege of paying more.


----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph email yesterday:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> From a Ralph email yesterday:
> View attachment 54313


That PRL version of a Safari Jacket has great potential and the Faire Isle sweater is perfection.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

The chap with the polo pony picture under his tweed jacket and over his white trousers looks like he is wearing a television on his chest. The one who threw a tennis sweater on with his green shirt must have gotten cold in a place where that was the only available warmth. Despite these oddities, the colors and overall appearance of each outfit seem to work. I agree that the Fair Isle is lovely. They have a very similar one on the Ben Silver website for $175, an astoundingly low price for Ben Silver, low enough to make me wonder where, and how, it was made.


----------



## Fading Fast

Like you two guys ⇧, I like the Fair Isle a lot - I pretty much like that entire outfit. For the other pics, I like some individual pieces, but not the combinations or some other oddity here or there.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

The sweatshirt under the denim jacket made me curious. So on a lark I Googled Ralph's sweats. A plain gray sweatshirt and sweatpants came in around $300. My loyalty to Champion sweats is reaffirmed!


----------



## Tweedlover

TKI67 said:


> The sweatshirt under the denim jacket made me curious. So on a lark I Googled Ralph's sweats. A plain gray sweatshirt and sweatpants came in around $300. My loyalty to Champion sweats is reaffirmed!


Yet another example of RL's over-pricing. Some pieces in the above outfits are nice, but enough with the large polo player looks.


----------



## Fading Fast

And from yet another email from Ralph:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> And from yet another email from Ralph:
> View attachment 54395
> View attachment 54396


I like the ladies dress, but the guys rigs, not so much. In total the collage strikes me as a PRL version of "Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid!"


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> I like the ladies dress, but the guys rigs, not so much. In total the collage strikes me as a PRL version of "Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid!"


You beat me to it!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I like the ladies dress, but the guys rigs, not so much. In total the collage strikes me as a PRL version of "Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid!"





TKI67 said:


> You beat me to it!


Yes to the dress (might be a sweater top and skirt, not sure). Also, yes, the outfits on the men struck me as all but silly as I can't imagine where too many regular people could ever wear them without looking like they were in costume.

That said, there are several very nice individual pieces like the Fair Isle in the top, the (what I think is) cotton/chino sport coat and madras shirt (silly with a tie pin) below.


----------



## Tweedlover

Have always thought the RL penchant for tying or draping sweaters over jackets or other sweaters a tad silly.


----------



## Oldsarge

I'm not sure if this is really Ralph's but it sure looks like one.


----------



## Tweedlover

Definitely a Polo look.


----------



## Fading Fast

And, once again, from yesterday's Ralph email (they seem to be doing a spring push right now as I am getting a lot more emails from Polo than I used to):


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Top...too much tan
Middle...too much
Bottom...it was an hellaciously good year, now knit into history.


----------



## drpeter

Not to mention the health consequences of wearing something like the jeans pictured on that model -- or rather, to mention it:

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/247826#1

Perhaps a case of jeans damaging genes?


----------



## Tweedlover

As to the bottom photo with the "pre-stained" jeans, for quite awhile now RL has had a thing about selling jeans replete with stains, in some cases looking simply like dirty unwashed jeans. Don't understand the appeal of that nor ever liked the look.


----------



## Tweedlover

Of course, when I was a young lad in the early 70's, we all thought jeans looked better with a few holes and with bell bottoms. So much for the fashion sense of the young.


----------



## Oldsarge

I was always delighted by the jeans with the crewel embroidery all over it. Sadly, my wife was too busy maintaining a high GPA and raising a baby to make any for me.


----------



## Fading Fast

The last three pics from the recent Ralph email:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> And, once again, from yesterday's Ralph email (they seem to be doing a spring push right now as I am getting a lot more emails from Polo than I used to):
> View attachment 54436


If that white ball is one thrown directly at the subject in the shot above, that is one hell of a good photo! Well timed, for sure!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> The last three pics from the recent Ralph email:
> View attachment 54474
> 
> View attachment 54475
> View attachment 54476


Saved the best for last IMO. Does the striped shirt in the top photo have different striping widths on either sleeve and the collar? If so, ew. I take it back, despite the nice jumper and tie.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> If that white ball is one thrown directly at the subject in the shot above, that is one hell of a good photo! Well timed, for sure!


Agreed, say what any of us will about this or that detail, Ralph pays up for talented photographers.



TKI67 said:


> Saved the best for last IMO. Does the striped shirt in the top photo have different striping widths on either sleeve and the collar? If so, ew. I take it back, despite the nice jumper and tie.


Good catch - that's really odd.

As you note, beautiful Fair Isle though.

In the bottom left pic, while I'd tuck the collar points into the sweater's neck, I thought the outfit looks very nice and the lavender cable knit - not a color I usually think about - works really well.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Nice elements, nicely composed, a few especially fine details. I like the watch strap, which matches the belt, but I would have pulled the sweater down to cover the belt. I am least wild about the tie choice. I would have gone olive or maroon, maybe even navy. All in all, however, a good outfit.


----------



## Tweedlover

I've occasionally seen outfits featuring a bow tie which I think look quite nice. However, during my tie-wearing years I was not tempted to try one simply due to the comfort factor as I never buttoned the top button as I could not abide the constriction on my neck. I simply pulled the knot of my ties up as high as I could which largely pushed the gap at the neck closed enough to look proper.


----------



## Oldsarge

Definitely not wild about the tie. I kind of like bow ties but that one, IMO, can best be described as 'twee'.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Big lapels, outsize shoulders. But the patterns and solids (glen check DB, white short point collar and small houndstooth tie) agree with one another really well. So Ralph, or his dressers, receive an A+/ for what I will call their pattern IQ.

I have several such small houndstooth ties, made in Scotland, 100% wool, woven in beautiful, slightly dusty colours (olives, reds, browns, and creams) and patterns, often forming a micro-tartan effect. They are so elegant when paired with solid shirts and almost any kind of jacket.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Oldsarge said:


> Definitely not wild about the tie. I kind of like bow ties but that one, IMO, can best be described as 'twee'.


Bonus points for using a word that is sadly underused but too often apt!


----------



## drpeter

And another such word is "fey" although it is distinct in meaning from "twee"


----------



## Tweedlover

I'm fond of glen plaids. 2 of my favorite warmer weather sport coats featured that. I had accumulated a fair number of sport coats while I was working and kept only 1 of those 2 when retired as I gave over half of my sport coats away upon retirement. Can't say I've had occasion to wear the other since I retired.


----------



## peterc

Regarding Post 1656, you fellows who have never had a suit with extended shoulders like the one Mr. L. is wearing don't know what you are missing. A suit like that feels like you are wearing a sweater. You have complete ease of movement, can sit at dinner, can walk comfortably, etc. Both RL's and Alexander Julian's suits were cut like this in the 80's. Did not then realize how lucky I was to have them.


----------



## drpeter

I don't have a suit with wide shoulders of the sort RL is sporting, but I have both single-breasted, and especially DB jackets with different amounts of width in the shoulder. Personally, I have never felt that comfort levels are greater compared with normal-width shoulders, but then, I am also quite comfortable with higher scyes in jackets. With shoulders, if they extend out too far, it is not as aesthetically pleasing. It does violence to the proportions of the rest of the clothing on one's body. For me, the part that makes the greatest difference in terms of comfort is the chest region. If it is too tight and binds, or too loose, I feel discomfort and I would not purchase that jacket.

One example that comes to mind is the late actor Cary Grant. He had a large head relative to the width of his shoulders. His tailors corrected this by making the shoulders of his suit jackets and sport coats wider. So he looks quite well-proportioned until he takes off his jacket and shirt. The classic scene one remembers is in the Hitchcock film _North by Northwest_, where Grant takes off his jacket and shirt in the men's room at the railway station and wearing just a white undershirt, proceeds to lather up and shave. The narrow shoulders and large head are quite noticeable in this scene.

I could not find a perfect still from the film but this is another one from a different film, the 1957 comedy _Kiss Them for Me_, that clearly shows the difference between Grant's head and shoulders:


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

I've never felt comfortable riding scooters. As a young man, I rode motorcycles a fair bit because it was a common, affordable form of transportation where I grew up. Cars were only for the wealthy in those days. And motorcycles, with their larger wheels, were far more stable than scooters with their small wheels.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 54552


Jeez Louise, put a red, white and blue helmet on that guy and he could be a stand-in for Peter Fonda in the iconic film, Easy Rider! LOL.  Although, that is a pretty well put together rig he is sporting.


----------



## Old Road Dog

That photo of Ralph is probably 1980's vintage. The cut of the suit is one he favors as his kind of signature look, very much an homage to Edward, the Prince of Wales (that cut was officially known as the _Prince _model), discussed here before. I wouldn't be surprised if that suit still gets worn occasionally by Mr. Lauren.


----------



## drpeter

Old Road Dog said:


> That photo of Ralph is probably 1980's vintage. The cut of the suit is one he favors as his kind of signature look, very much an homage to Edward, the Prince of Wales (that cut was officially known as the _Prince _model), discussed here before. I wouldn't be surprised if that suit still gets worn occasionally by Mr. Lauren.


I agree. I like the jacket and the cloth very much.

Actually, AFAIK, the plaid _cloth_ is very similar to a tartan used by the Prince of Wales, and is called as such. It dates from a Glen Urquhart style black and white check worn by then POW, Prince Edward VII while grouse-hunting -- at least, that's the legend. More generally the British say glen check (and that could also be colours other than grey). We call it glen plaid. There are plenty of variations with colours and overpanes that are all loosely called POW check or plaid.


----------



## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 54552


This could go in the 'Vespa Obsessed' thread.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## fred johnson

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 54631


Still looking for that photo of uncle ralph in a button down collar...


----------



## peterc

Re: Post 1662 - you make many wise observations. I have long had trouble with the way jackets fit me. I think I have wide upper arms relative to the rest of me, because I had this problem when I was a 38R which was 35+ years ago. This explains why I found the suit jackets I had in the 80's so comfortable (Polo, Paul Smith, Alexander Julian, and others),

I find most jackets today are uncomfortably tight in the upper arm area. When I buy a suit, I often had to tell the tailor to deepen the armhole and let the blades out. Sometimes, I have explain what those alterations are!


----------



## Fading Fast

From yet another recent Ralph email which seems to be showing variations on some outfits used in earlier emails.


----------



## Tweedlover

As I'd noted before, hate the teddy bear thing. The cowboy hat also looks out of place.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> From yet another recent Ralph email which seems to be showing variations on some outfits used in earlier email
> View attachment 54664


Based on the insignia he is wearing on the PRL Field Jacket, the young buck must be an enlisted aircrew member of Ralph's air force! Clearly, flying for Ralph is serious business...look at the 'look' on his face. LOL.


----------



## Tweedlover

eagle2250 said:


> Based on the insignia he is wearing on the PRL Field Jacket, the young buck must be an enlisted aircrew member of Ralph's air force! Clearly, flying for Ralph is serious business...look at the 'look' on his face. LOL.


Given the style of it, I suppose someone's name must appear over the left breast. But, I wouldn't be comfortable wearing such with someone else's name other than my own appearing-not that I want to wear anything with my name appearing.


----------



## Tweedlover

I do like those cricket sweaters including the crested one. I find RL's 1920-30's-inspired letterman sweaters-the cardigan ones-also quite appealing.


----------



## Fading Fast

Tweedlover said:


> I do like those cricket sweaters including the crested one. I find RL's 1920-30's-inspired letterman sweaters-the cardigan ones-also quite appealing.


I really like the letterman sweaters too. I had a light tan one with two burgundy stripes on one arm and nothing else - no insignias, crests, fake letters, etc. that I loved and wore out. It had an echo of the letterman sweater, but it wasn't kitschy as it was very plain other than the two stripes.

You can pretty much "design" your own letterman sweaters on Ralph's site under the "create your own" section, but they are quite pricey.


----------



## Fading Fast

A couple of samples ⇩ from Ralph's "create your own" program as referenced above ⇧.


----------



## eagle2250

Tweedlover said:


> Given the style of it, I suppose someone's name must appear over the left breast. But, I wouldn't be comfortable wearing such with someone else's name other than my own appearing-not that I want to wear anything with my name appearing.


Somewhere, hidden in this hoard, I have two of those field jackets stored away,both issued to me by the USAF. One is solid OD hued and the other is in a camouflage pattern, with insulated liners for each. I had my wife remove the insignia and the name tapes off of them, thinking that I would eventually be giving them away, but for some reason the SAC patches were left on the breast pocket of each. The Strategic Air Command was decommissioned in 1992, so I guess it really doesn't matter at this point!


----------



## drpeter

What!!??? No more Strategic Air Command? LOL, are we open to attack from the dreaded Russkies? Or the Chinese?

I read a fascinating article some time ago in the _Sunday New York Times Magazine_ about how one of the unused silos for the ICBMs had been converted into multi-level residential flats for the very wealthy, as hideouts in case of nuclear catastrophe. They were actually small communities built into the silos, with schools, libraries and shops, even a bar and a cinema built in! A two-bedroom flat could cost a cool two million. As soon as the catastrophe struck, you could fly into the area and be helicoptered to the silo location. I have always loved architecture and unique homes, and the whole idea appealed to me from that perspective. But who would want to live in a world that bleak? Here is a website:

https://survivalcondo.com/

You have to admit that there is a bit of poetic irony here -- a survival condo in a disused missile silo! Nice touch. And now, you can have a taste of this style of living for $49 per night, in Kansas:

https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/248469...1613313324_V4gV22f3DCJpBDRK&guests=1&adults=1


----------



## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> What!!??? No more Strategic Air Command? LOL, are we open to attack from the dreaded Russkies? Or the Chinese?
> 
> I read a fascinating article some time ago in the _Sunday New York Times Magazine_ about how one of the unused silos for the ICBMs had been converted into multi-level residential flats for the very wealthy, as hideouts in case of nuclear catastrophe. They were actually small communities built into the silos, with schools, libraries and shops, even a bar and a cinema built in! A two-bedroom flat could cost a cool two million. As soon as the catastrophe struck, you could fly into the area and be helicoptered to the silo location. I have always loved architecture and unique homes, and the whole idea appealed to me from that perspective. But who would want to live in a world that bleak? Here is a website:
> 
> https://survivalcondo.com/
> 
> You have to admit that there is a bit of poetic irony here -- a survival condo in a disused missile silo! Nice touch. And now, you can have a taste of this style of living for $49 per night, in Kansas:
> 
> https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/248469...1613313324_V4gV22f3DCJpBDRK&guests=1&adults=1


Having pulled 408 Strategic Alert Tours with the 509th SMS and with three years of those tours performed when two day alerts were the order of the day, I'm guessing I've spent something in the neighborhood of 720 days living approximately 100 feet under the Missouri countryside, behind 8 and 5 ton blast doors in little bits of domestic heaven as you see pictured below. The paint schemes left a lot to be desired ("there are green ones and green ones and green ones; and theyre all made out of ticky-tacky and they all look just the same!") and the sound of the cooling air coming off all those equipment racks could be distracting, but the space was small enough to be described as decidedly cozy and the USAF paid me to do it! Can't get much better than that.

However, having done that I would never pay $2M for a two bedroom apt in a decommissioned silo or even a modest $49 to stay in one for even a single night. LOL.










PS: This picture was taken more that 30 years after I completed that assignment. The weapon system had been decommissioned as part of one of the Salt Agreements, the 509th SMS had been deactivated and the control center you are looking at was turned into a museum tour at Whiteman AFB, MO. There is nothing classified about the picture you were looking at


----------



## drpeter

Finally, we get to take a good look at all of you, my dear friend! I often wonder what members of our group here actually look like.

I can understand your reluctance about one of those apartments, but I confess I am a bit of a claustro_phile_ when it comes to living spaces. I enjoy the idea of being able to fit essential things into small spaces. But my own habits of excess (books, stamps, clothes, even bicycles) require not one but two apartments. If I had the resources, I would rent a second flat just to house the overflow, LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 54694


A workable look for Ralph, but I seriously doubt that many of the rest of us could pull it off. That is a pinstriped suit coat he is wearing? Just thinkin!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> A workable look for Ralph, but I seriously doubt that many of the rest of us could pull it off. That is a pinstriped suit coat he is wearing? Just thinkin!


I am not convinced he pulled it off.


----------



## drpeter

@eagle2250 Of course we can pull it off. I don't think Ralph looks that good in this picture. I am sure, having seen your photograph, that you could pull it off and look better than Ralph.

I think the trouble is that we create an aura around a human being that blows his image (and his ego, perhaps) all out of proportion. We see the Ralph in our heads, not the Ralph in the street, with shabby jeans and a suit coat. The other day, I put on a pair of old, but still crisp khakis and a white oxford cloth shirt, and topped it with a single-breasted black dinner jacket I'd thrifted from somewhere for a song. That ensemble, equally transgressive (if that's the right word) looked perfectly fine. And I am an unknown person, not Ralph Lauren.


----------



## Fading Fast

Beyond that I hate the obvious pinstripe suit jacket being used as a sport coat (a heavy-flannel wide-spaced chalk-stripe one could work as a stand-alone sport coat), the jacket and striped T-shirt don't work well together at all.

That said, as noted by others, "fashion" people can get away with things we mere mortals cannot because they are expected to be outre. I have a friend in fashion and she does some extreme stuff to my eye, but then I've met her with her co-workers and they all do it so it looks almost normal in that context.

I also think Ralph is a bit old for some of the stuff he tries. It's not that he has to dress like a granddad, but he could leave the more youthful push-the-envelope stuff to the younger guys. How cool would Ralph look if he fully embraced his own Purple Label line and became an elegant dresser who looked like one of those 1930s Esquire illustrations, which clearly inspired his Purple Label line anyway.

He could play in that sandbox - do some fresh or unique things there, but in the context of a well-dressed by traditional standards man.


----------



## Tweedlover

Nope, the look doesn't work for me. Seems like nearly every photo I see of him in some sport coat or even suit jacket, he's wearing jeans. I think the jeans and jacket look only works with some jackets and only with a darker jean hue.


----------



## Old Road Dog

I would hazard that RL doesn't care what we think. We are not his customer, as he clearly shows in his advertising.


----------



## Fading Fast

I've been a Ralph customer for over thirty years now, but always selectively as he has some great items and some odd ones as we see in this thread regularly.

When I was a regular suit buyer, I bought from his MTM program almost every year as the Blue Label MTM is decent value, has outstanding tailoring and the suits all but never wore out.

I have sport coats, shirts, suits (as noted), overcoats, sweaters, trousers, chinos, shoes, boots, ties and this and that item all from Ralph. Overall, I've been very happy with his merchandise. At full price (blue label in particular), it's not a steal, but usually is fair value and on sale it's usually very good value.

The funny thing is, most of the clothes in the stores - even his flagship, which is only a few blocks from my apartment - are more normal than a lot of the things we see in his advertisements and in this thread.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> I've been a Ralph customer for over thirty years now, but always selectively as he has some great items and some odd ones as we see in this thread regularly.
> 
> When I was a regular suit buyer, I bought from his MTM program almost every year as the Blue Label MTM is decent value, has outstanding tailoring and the suits all but never wore out.
> 
> I have sport coats, shirts, suits (as noted), overcoats, sweaters, trousers, chinos, shoes, boots, ties and this and that item all from Ralph. Overall, I've been very happy with his merchandise. At full price (blue label in particular), it's not a steal, but usually is fair value and on sale it's usually very good value.
> 
> The funny thing is, most of the clothes in the stores - even his flagship, which is only a few blocks from my apartment - are more normal than a lot of the things we see in his advertisement and in this thread.


My son is both tall and long waisted. He has several XLT polos from Ralph, and they are quite nice. Great colors. He had a pair of RL jeans that were quite nice, too. In the early nineties I had some RL suits, shirts, and ties. They were the nicest stuff I saw in Austin. I used to love his store in the Houston Galleria. He always had beautiful goods that were quite in line with TNSIL tastes along with the goofy items like Teddy bear sweaters. His shoes were gorgeous. He offered a tassel loafer with braided trim. If I hadn't been loaded up with Aldens that were only a few years old, they would have lured me in for sure!


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> I've been a Ralph customer for over thirty years now, but always selectively as he has some great items and some odd ones as we see in this thread regularly.
> 
> When I was a regular suit buyer, I bought from his MTM program almost every year as the Blue Label MTM is decent value, has outstanding tailoring and the suits all but never wore out.
> 
> I have sport coats, shirts, suits (as noted), overcoats, sweaters, trousers, chinos, shoes, boots, ties and this and that item all from Ralph. Overall, I've been very happy with his merchandise. At full price (blue label in particular), it's not a steal, but usually is fair value and on sale it's usually very good value.
> 
> The funny thing is, most of the clothes in the stores - even his flagship, which is only a few blocks from my apartment - are more normal than a lot of the things we see in his advertisements and in this thread.


I'd love to afford RL, but have only 3 pieces of Polo-2 dressier shirts, (a lovely and unique gray glen plaid and a white with medium blue stripes), and a very nice green tartan scarf. 1 of the shirts was passed along to me by a friend and the other 2 items were thrifted. So, none were bought new. All 3 have a much smaller and therefore more tasteful polo player logo on them


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Tweedlover said:


> I'd love to afford RL, but have only 3 pieces of Polo-2 dressier shirts, (a lovely and unique gray glen plaid and a white with medium blue stripes), and a very nice green tartan scarf. 1 of the shirts was passed along to me by a friend and the other 2 items were thrifted. So, none were bought new. All 3 have a much smaller and therefore more tasteful polo player logo on them


Twedlovers experience with Ralph seems closer to my own experience. Over the years I've bought a fair number of sport shirts, chinos, a couple of their storm coats (you know, those Oh-so-gaudy/noticeable bright yellow or orange foul weather gear!), and a variety of accessories. But I have never bought one of their suits. For me, those came from Brooks Brothers and Hart Shaffner and Marx.


----------



## Tweedlover

eagle2250 said:


> Twedlovers experience with Ralph seems closer to my own experience. Over the years I've bought a fair number of sport shirts, chinos, a couple of their storm coats (you know, those Oh-so-gaudy/noticeable bright yellow or orange foul weather gear!), and a variety of accessories. But I have never bought one of their suits. For me, those came from Brooks Brothers and Hart Shaffner and Marx.


I've had a couple of Hart, Shaffner, and Marx sport coats, 1 being a thrifted camel hair jacket with such soft fabric. When I retired I kept the latter jacket.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> Twedlovers experience with Ralph seems closer to my own experience. Over the years I've bought a fair number of sport shirts, chinos, a couple of their storm coats (you know, those Oh-so-gaudy/noticeable bright yellow or orange foul weather gear!), and a variety of accessories. But I have never bought one of their suits. For me, those came from Brooks Brothers and Hart Shaffner and Marx.


Back in the height of my suit days I was generally a completely Brooks customer, but I bought one olive worsted Polo. It did not have the comfort of a Golden Fleece or even a 346 and got very little wear. Fast forward to the nineties and moving to Austin. Brooks was, for the hard core Trad, already dead. A little shop here offered Corbin and some Polo items. There was no other way short of mail order. I quickly resorted to telephoning J. Press when I needed suits or odd jackets (or most anything else). Their sales were wonderful. I still love them despite their MIC twist (caveat emptor). I prefer O'Connell's. The only PRL I see is a marked out section in stores like Macy's or Dillard's, and the offerings are mainly casual wear like polos, shorts, swim trunks, sweaters, caps, and a few items of outerwear. No tailored items and no shoes seem to show up there.


----------



## Tweedlover

TKI67 said:


> Back in the height of my suit days I was generally a completely Brooks customer, but I bought one olive worsted Polo. It did not have the comfort of a Golden Fleece or even a 346 and got very little wear. Fast forward to the nineties and moving to Austin. Brooks was, for the hard core Trad, already dead. A little shop here offered Corbin and some Polo items. There was no other way short of mail order. I quickly resorted to telephoning J. Press when I needed suits or odd jackets (or most anything else). Their sales were wonderful. Instill love them despite their MIC twist (caveat emptor). I prefer O'Connell's. The only PRL I see is a marked out section in stores like Macy's or Dillard's, and the offerings are mainly casual wear like polos, shorts, swim trunks, sweaters, caps, and a few items of outerwear. No tailored items and no shoes seem to show up there.


I'd never heard of O'Connells til I joined up here. Have since perused their site and they do have wonderful pieces-but way too "rich for my blood." Then, again, I'm not in the market for clothes as I have closets- full stuffed with them. Other than a pair of jeans bought last fall, haven't bought any clothing items for some years, new or thrifted. Probably won't buy any unless I find a really interesting piece thrifting. Though, when my undies give way again, guess I'll need more of them.


----------



## fred johnson

For years I too was a PRL man, buying everything from that label I could afford, including my first forward pleated trousers. I have since gone back to J Press for anything needed beyond the basics and have gotten rid of all the RL stuff except for some older khakis, some socks, a few ties and some plain point dress shirts. I don't even thrift his stuff anymore.


----------



## Tweedlover

Guess I should qualify that when I said I wasn't in the market for clothes. The 1 item of clothing I've long coveted and still do is a waistcoat made entirely of tweed. Certainly can find them online, but cannot and would not shell out the hundreds needed to obtain it. Now, if that thrifting unicorn ever showed up in good condition, I'd be all over it in a nanosecond.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Tweedlover said:


> Guess I should qualify that when I said I wasn't in the market for clothes. The 1 item of clothing I've long coveted and still do is a waistcoat made entirely of tweed. Certainly can find them online, but cannot and would not shell out the hundreds needed to obtain it. Now, if that thrifting unicorn ever showed up in good condition, I'd be all over it in a nanosecond.


I rather liked the tattersall one on sale at J. Peterman.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Tweedlover said:


> I'd never heard of O'Connells til I joined up here. Have since perused their site and they do have wonderful pieces-but way too "rich for my blood." Then, again, I'm not in the market for clothes as I have closets- full stuffed with them. Other than a pair of jeans bought last fall, haven't bought any clothing items for some years, new or thrifted. Probably won't buy any unless I find a really interesting piece thrifting. Though, when my undies give way again, guess I'll need more of them.


I hear you loud and clear about not needing more clothing, even though I could fit all of my fall/winter or spring/summer into my duffel bag!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 54727


Ouoting country singer Red Steagall, "Here we go again." In every picture taken, Ralph is always so perfectly bronzed. Is that a real tan or a spray-on option? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Old Road Dog

Having a home in Jamaica helps.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Very nice. Blue Label or Purple?


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Very nice. Blue Label or Purple?


I'd guess purple as DB with peak lapels looks more Purple to me (and it just "feels" like Purple to me), but I'm sure Blue did some DBs, so it's just a guess.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

It is exquisite. Not my style but exquisite.


----------



## Old Road Dog

That's Ralph's son, David, in case you didn't know.


----------



## Fading Fast

Old Road Dog said:


> That's Ralph's son, David, in case you didn't know.


Thank you, I thought it might be as it kinda looked like him and I know he models (or did) for the company, but I think the long hair through me .


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 54749


It is nice to see a Ralph model without the exaggerated pouty look. His sweater vest really works well with that shirt. The trousers are a bit too white, but hey...to each his/her own!  LOL.


----------



## AJP

I think pants would be nice in light ecru like Banana Republic used to sell back in their beginnings.


----------



## Tweedlover

AJP said:


> I think pants would be nice in light ecru like Banana Republic used to sell back in their beginnings.


Yup. I didn't do stark white but did have a nice cuffed ecru dress pant. Not BR, though.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 54756


Are those his skivvies peeking over his buckle?


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 54756


The young fellow above arguably has the look of a wanna be "life taker and heart breaker", but he destroys the look and any potential success with that juvenile showing of the waistband of his tighty-whities! Nuff said.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> Are those his skivvies peeking over his buckle?





eagle2250 said:


> The young fellow above arguably has the look of a wanna be "life taker and heart breaker", but he destroys the look and any potential success with that juvenile showing of the waistband of his tighty-whities! Nuff said.


The worst part, it was done simply to sell underwear. Come on Ralph, you don't need the extra revenue that badly.

Wasn't there a time several years ago when a lot of clothing ads were showing the underwear's waistband? I seem to remember it was one of those stupid advertising tics that took off for a little while.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

How did they know it was John Paul Jones in the sarcophagus under the Naval Academy chapel?

J on his undershirt and P on his skivvies.


----------



## Fading Fast

A little Sunday fun.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> A little Sunday fun.
> View attachment 54785


I can hardly bear to admit this, but he much better dressed than I, this AM. Makes me miss my Albert Slippers...in a moment of weakness I gave them to our youngest grandson! Oh well?


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I can hardly bear to admit this, but he much better dressed than I, this AM. Makes me miss my Albert Slippers...in a moment of weakness I gave them to our youngest grandson! Oh well?


Don't worry, that bear is dressed nicer than I am every single day of my life.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> A little Sunday fun.
> View attachment 54785


Handsome bear. He seems wanting for a snifter of Vesper or a large R & J, but not both at once.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> Handsome bear. He seems wanting for a snifter of Vesper or a large R & J, but not both at once.


What's an "R&J?" Rum and something or is it a brand name or a cigar?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> What's an "R&J?" Rum and something or is it a brand name or a cigar?


Romeo y Julieta, a cigar. Vesper, of course, is Delamain Vesper, a very fine Cognac.


----------



## Fading Fast

From an over-the-weekend Ralph email:


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

The "like" is directed at the sweater in the top picture. I think the stripes junk up an otherwise nice pink OCUD (oxford cloth unbuttoned down). As much as I loved 1967, the year I graduated from high school in Virginia and headed to college in California, memorializing it in the ways Ralph has seems excessive.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> The "like" is directed at the sweater in the top picture. I think the stripes junk up an otherwise nice pink OCUD (oxford cloth unbuttoned down). As much as I loved 1967, the year I graduated from high school in Virginia and headed to college in California, memorializing it in the ways Ralph has seems excessive.


I liked the sweater a lot too and thought it went nicely with the suede jacket. And, agreed, that's an odd looking stripe on the shirt.

As to the "1967" sweater, I just don't get it as, I'm sure, it's very expensive, but who buys it? Somebody must, but even living in a city where I see people wearing expensive clothes - and plenty of Ralph's clothes - I never see people wearing these "novelty" sweaters or the bear sweaters we see often from Ralph. I feel the same about the giant and elaborate crest on the tennis sweater.


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> I liked the sweater a lot too and thought it went nicely with the suede jacket. And, agreed, that's an odd looking stripe on the shirt.
> 
> As to the "1967" sweater, I just don't get it as, I'm sure, it's very expensive, but who buys it? Somebody must, but even living in a city where I see people wearing expensive clothes - and plenty of Ralph's clothes - I never see people wearing these "novelty" sweaters or the bear sweaters we see often from Ralph. I feel the same about the giant and elaborate crest on the tennis sweater.


I think the crested sweater is fine, but you'd never catch me wearing a sweater with a teddy bear.


----------



## Fading Fast

I think we've seen this one before, but if not, I didn't want to not post it.


----------



## drpeter

He has buttoned his jacket the way a woman's jacket would be buttoned -- the right quarter over the left. Maybe it's a statement of some sort, an inspired bit of rule-breaking?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> He has buttoned his jacket the way a woman's jacket would be buttoned -- the right quarter over the left. Maybe it's a statement of some sort, an inspired bit of rule-breaking?


I had a Burberry windbreaker ages ago that buttoned that way. It always bothered me.


----------



## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> He has buttoned his jacket the way a woman's jacket would be buttoned -- the right quarter over the left. Maybe it's a statement of some sort, an inspired bit of rule-breaking?


Or someone has inadvertently reversed the negative.The breast pocket of the jacket and the pocket square seem to be on the wrong side, as well. :icon_scratch:


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> Or someone has inadvertently reversed the negative.The breast pocket of the jacket and the pocket square seem to be on the wrong side, as well. :icon_scratch:


The Eagle Eye has it. Upon closer inspection the natural pattern of his hair is also reversed. Had he a part it would have been obvious, but who is Ralph Lauren to be bothered by parting his hair?


----------



## Fading Fast

I noticed that too, but only because @Matt S has, over the years, taught me about reversing the negative. It looks really odd.

Like @TKI67 , I had a windbreaker many - twenty five or so - years ago that zipped the wrong way and it was awkward to zip it up as your muscle memory is not trained to do it that way. I'd say it was a woman's one I bought inadvertently, but the sleeve length fit me fine and women's clothes are cut much shorter than men's in the sleeves.


----------



## Old Road Dog

Aah! Never have seen this one....Ralph at the very beginning. Probably 1968.

I married in 1970, and bit later, the owner of the men's store I worked in sent us to New York as a wedding present. I went over to Polo on 55th St.to buy neckwear for the store, and Ralph (who then looked like the photo above) waited on us. He was very passionate about his designs, and brought out clothing samples that had various pocket treatments and inverted back pleats that would not be for our WASPy customers, as our current stock was Norman Hilton Hampton and West End models. A few years later, that would all change.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> I noticed that too, but only because @Matt S has, over the years, taught me about reversing the negative. It looks really odd.
> 
> Like @TKI67 , I had a windbreaker many - twenty five or so - years ago that zipped the wrong way and it was awkward to zip it up as your muscle memory is not trained to do it that way. I'd say it was a woman's one I bought inadvertently, but the sleeve length fit me fine and women's clothes are cut much shorter than men's in the sleeves.


I have three Baracuta jackets and a cardigan sweater that were made in Great Britain ....and they all fasten that way. LOL, if it's good enough for Winston Churchill, it's good enough for me!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I have three Baracuta jackets and a cardigan sweater that were made in Great Britain ....and they all fasten that way. LOL, if it's good enough for Winston Churchill, it's good enough for me!


Maybe that's the answer; maybe it was made in GB or somewhere where the norm is to zip that way and it somehow got imported to the US. I don't remember the brand, but it was certainly not expensive. Who knows, odd things happen for all sorts of reasons.


----------



## drpeter

TKI67 said:


> The Eagle Eye has it. Upon closer inspection the natural pattern of his hair is also reversed. Had he a part it would have been obvious, but who is Ralph Lauren to be bothered by parting his hair?


Right you are. That's why our friend is called the Eagle. Far-sighted, visionary and able to spot reversed negatives in a single glance! Splendid job, Eagle.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I noticed that too, but only because @Matt S has, over the years, taught me about reversing the negative. It looks really odd.
> 
> Like @TKI67 , I had a windbreaker many - twenty five or so - years ago that zipped the wrong way and it was awkward to zip it up as your muscle memory is not trained to do it that way. I'd say it was a woman's one I bought inadvertently, but the sleeve length fit me fine and women's clothes are cut much shorter than men's in the sleeves.


I've had similar experiences with shirts picked up while thrifting. It doesn't help when a woman's shirt is placed in the middle of a set of men's shirts, LOL. To be fair, I have also found men's jackets and coats misidentified and placed in the women's section.

All that said, there are some items that are pretty much indistinguishable -- like T shirts -- between male and female versions. Unless there are specific decorations, and so on.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> I have three Baracuta jackets and a cardigan sweater that were made in Great Britain ....and they all fasten that way. LOL, if it's good enough for Winston Churchill, it's good enough for me!


And I have a warm English field coat, made of a beautiful olive, brown and cream herringbone cloth, with bellows pockets, that zips up in a similar way! I love the jacket, great for Wisconsin winters.


----------



## Fading Fast

Old Road Dog said:


> Aah! Never have seen this one....Ralph at the very beginning. Probably 1968.
> 
> I married in 1970, and bit later, the owner of the men's store I worked in sent us to New York as a wedding present. I went over to Polo on 55th St.to buy neckwear for the store, and Ralph (who then looked like the photo above) waited on us. He was very passionate about his designs, and brought out clothing samples that had various pocket treatments and inverted back pleats that would not be for our WASPy customers, as our current stock was Norman Hilton Hampton and West End models. A few years later, that would all change.


That is a great story and a great experience you had. Thank you for sharing it with us.

I know I posted once that Ralph got his start selling very wide ties as those ties and and an early partnership with Bloomingdales are how Ralph's business became profitable. To be sure, he clearly changed his brand's style angle, but it is funny that he started out as, in a way, anti-Trad.


----------



## Oldsarge

It is a puzzle. Most of my zippered garments do what we all expect but not only my Barbour but a recently acquired (and delightfully warm) Orvis coat have the zippers on the 'off' side. I don't understand.


----------



## Fading Fast

Cross post with the Tweed thread.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

I like the look, other than the look the model is giving, despite disliking horizontal stripes on shirts other than certain polos.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> I like the look, other than the look the model is giving, despite disliking horizontal stripes on shirts other than certain polos.


I felt the exact same way. Usually, I don't like horizontal-striped shirts, but I thought here it brought a nice spark to the outfit and made it feel fresh.


----------



## Peak and Pine

A little more about this, the Ralph pic posted recently...










...forward, reverse, whatever, it doesn't change the idea that when the lapels of your jacket scratch the joint between sleeve and shoulder they may be on the too-wide side. Geezus, Ralph. And you probably shouldn't smoke in stores and if you do, maybe not hold your cigarette like Bette Davis and if you're only 5- feet something tall, maybe you shouldn't put the tie rack over your head. Like the man I'm making up that designed the first Corvette in '54 yet jumped in his Nash Rambler to drive home, I cannot for the life of me figure out why the great Ralph Lauren is such a completely lousy dresser. Still, I have heaps of his stuff, heaps of respect for him and know the world would still be a double knitting polyester place if he hadn't escaped the Bronx and entered my and my like-minded '67 brethren's imaginations, filled our closets, emptied our wallets and created clothing to match how waspy New Englanders dressed somewhere in time except I already was one of those and it wasn't quite like what Ralph imagined it was, but I went along for the carnival ride and still sorta happily do.


----------



## Guest

Peak and Pine said:


> A little more about this, the Ralph pic posted recently...
> 
> View attachment 54902
> 
> 
> ...forward, reverse, whatever, it doesn't change the idea that when the lapels of your jacket scratch the joint between sleeve and shoulder they may be on the too-wide side. Geezus, Ralph. And you probably shouldn't smoke in stores and if you do, maybe not hold your cigarette like Bette Davis and if you're only 5- feet something tall, maybe you shouldn't put the tie rack over your head. Like the man I'm making up that designed the first Corvette in '54 yet jumped in his Nash Rambler to drive home, I cannot for the life of me figure out why the great Ralph Lauren is such a completely lousy dresser. Still, I have heaps of his stuff, heaps of respect for him and know the world would still be a double knitting polyester place if he hadn't escaped the Bronx and entered my and my like-minded '67 brethren's imaginations, filled our closets, emptied our wallets and created clothing to match how waspy New Englanders dressed somewhere in time except I already was one of those and it wasn't quite like what Ralph imagined it was, but I went along for the carnival ride and still sorta happily do.


First Corvette was in '53.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Guest-66218 said:


> First Corvette was in '53.


I'm operating from memory. You're operating from Google. And you're right.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Peak and Pine said:


> A little more about this, the Ralph pic posted recently...
> 
> View attachment 54902
> 
> 
> ...forward, reverse, whatever, it doesn't change the idea that when the lapels of your jacket scratch the joint between sleeve and shoulder they may be on the too-wide side. Geezus, Ralph. And you probably shouldn't smoke in stores and if you do, maybe not hold your cigarette like Bette Davis and if you're only 5- feet something tall, maybe you shouldn't put the tie rack over your head. Like the man I'm making up that designed the first Corvette in '54 yet jumped in his Nash Rambler to drive home, I cannot for the life of me figure out why the great Ralph Lauren is such a completely lousy dresser. Still, I have heaps of his stuff, heaps of respect for him and know the world would still be a double knitting polyester place if he hadn't escaped the Bronx and entered my and my like-minded '67 brethren's imaginations, filled our closets, emptied our wallets and created clothing to match how waspy New Englanders dressed somewhere in time except I already was one of those and it wasn't quite like what Ralph imagined it was, but I went along for the carnival ride and still sorta happily do.


I do not think any WASPy New Englanders ever dressed like Ralph. They may have worn various of his items, but they put them together differently.


----------



## Old Road Dog

Waspy NewEnglanders in Ivy League duds weren't the prototypes for Ralph Lauren. That style was already a mature and declining influence in America. America's youth were abandoning the conventions of dress and behavior taught to them by their parents. RL was looking more to the manor-born Brits and well-dressed movie personalities as his prototypes. As he has said many times, he was creating clothing that personifies the dream of a wealthy and stylish lifestyle.


----------



## Tweedlover

Old Road Dog said:


> Waspy NewEnglanders in Ivy League duds weren't the prototypes for Ralph Lauren. That style was already a mature and declining influence in America. America's youth were abandoning the conventions of dress and behavior taught to them by their parents. RL was looking more to the manor-born Brits and well-dressed movie personalities as his prototypes. As he has said many times, he was creating clothing that personifies the dream of a wealthy and stylish lifestyle.


I can see the upper crust British influence in his styles, but overall I see a lot of influences from well dressed US styles of the 1930's-50's, both in casual wear and dress wear.


----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph email yesterday:


----------



## Old Road Dog

I agree with the poster who commented in a prior thread that Ralph apparently has not been photographed wearing one of his ubiqitous buttondowns. Someone please prove me wrong!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Tweedlover said:


> I can see the upper crust British influence in his styles, but overall I see a lot of influences from well dressed US styles of the 1930's-50's, both in casual wear and dress wear.


 I can absolutely see a kid from New England wearing Ralph's polos, OCUDs, and khakis, just not his thematic sweaters or wide lapeled jackets. Today's shots capture it. Ironically, while Ralph draws heavily on British influence, these articles of apparel (polos, OCUDs, khakis, and gimme caps) show very little of it unless you consider the sport of polo.


----------



## Tweedlover

The leather braces are nice. At least the polo player logos are at a more tasteful size.


----------



## fred johnson

Old Road Dog said:


> I agree with the poster who commented in a prior thread that Ralph apparently has not been photographed wearing one of his ubiqitous buttondowns. Someone please prove me wrong!


That was me, lets start a campaign! For someone who practically invented "preppy" why did he not wear the most preppy of shirt styles?


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

That is a very wearable outfit, but I am starting to miss the Teddy bear. Is the right cuff on the trousers noticeably shorter?


----------



## drpeter

It does look shorter. Maybe it is a combination of the way he is standing, with the right leg lifted or curved a bit (while the left one is straight), and the right hand in his pocket which could be lifting up that trouser leg.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> That is a very wearable outfit, but I am starting to miss the Teddy bear. Is the right cuff on the trousers noticeably shorter?


"...but I am starting to miss the Teddy bear" LOL

"Is the right cuff on the trousers noticeably shorter?" It's probably exactly what @drpeter says, but I have noticed that the length of pants on models is often not well tailored for some reason I don't get as professional shoots have tailors or, at least, seamstresses, right there.


----------



## Old Road Dog

Ok, I'm starting to believe that the "off-center belt buckle" is a _thing_ at PRL. This is another example if you look back through some of the prior posts. Maybe the dresser doesn't know better, or perhaps it's knowing something we don't know. As we used to say in the trade: "Fashion isn't always pretty".


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 55049


It reminds me of an early twentieth century photograph of my great grandfather. I always thought he was a sharp dresser.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> It reminds me of an early twentieth century photograph of my great grandfather. I always thought he was a sharp dresser.


Somewhat similarly, I thought it reminded me of those 1930s "Esquire" and "Apparel Arts" illustrations when, like your grandfather, men (who could) dressed incredibly thoughtfully.

Any pics of your grandfather that you could post? It would be really cool to see one.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

My great grandfather, George Timothy Klink, for whom I am named.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> View attachment 55050
> My great grandfather, George Timothy Klink, for whom I am named.


Thank you . He looks awesome and well-attired as you said.


----------



## drpeter

Great photograph! His suit and shirt are of the timeless kind -- beautifully cut.


----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph email the other day titled "Collegiate Prep."


----------



## drpeter

Sweatpants and neckties? No wonder the model looks dejected! This last rig is so outlandish that I fear Ralph, or his team, has gone over the edge.

What next, a dinner jacket and black tie with pajama bottoms? Or a DB navy blazer, gold buttons and double vents, paired with a string vest and Bermuda shorts? And of course, large RL or Polo logos on everything. Even on the string vest. The possibilities are endless and mind-numbing, LOL.

Breaking rules can be effective if one knows how to do it to good effect. The examples in the images above aren't creative in the least, and give the impression of slovenliness, rather than ingenuity.


----------



## Fading Fast

I understand that mainstream culture has moved far away from the suit-shirt-tie construct and all the traditional attire and ways of combining it that we talk about here. I get that it wants to wear jeans and T-shirts and, now, sweats and fleece pants almost everywhere. We'll see, but the pandemic might have been the final deathblow to traditional attire.

So with all that said, I too am at a bit of a loss for what Ralph is doing in these pics. I don't understand who is the target audience for that sweater. And even if someone wanted that sweater, would they really wear a tie and unbuttoned OCBD with it today? Sure, back in the day, a cardigan over a shirt and tie was a way to "dress down" a bit, but today?

I live in a city where some people still dress up - although, a lot less since Covid - but I never see anyone dressed this way. I have noticed, though, sweat pants and sweaters being worn, but not so much to dress up the sweats, but as to dress down the sweater - I think. And, as noted, it's never a sweater that looks like the one in the ad.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

I suppose it could be worn for a class being taught by Zoom or a similar platform, but my recollection is that in the early fall of 1967, upon arriving at college, my class rejected the wearing of jackets and ties. In 1973, my law school class rejected standing when reciting, thereby unknowingly paving the way for ill attired online learning. I think we crushed the morale of a large number of the more traditional professors, deans, etc. i imagine Ask Andy members of similar vintage had similar experiences. I wonder where the traditions of dressing for classes and standing to recite held on the longest.


----------



## Tweedlover

While I do like RL's letterman sweaters, the bold yellow color is too much and never would pair a sweater with sweat pants.


----------



## Fading Fast

Tweedlover said:


> While I do like RL's letterman sweaters, the bold yellow color is too much and never would pair a sweater with sweat pants.


Without the giant "R" on the sweater, I like it. I'd prefer if the stripes were on one arm as, I think, they were traditionally done, but it's the huge "R" that kills it for me.

I think sweats are the new jeans, meaning, they are the pants that our generation thinks don't belong in regular clothing outfits (like our parents or grandparents, depending on one's age, felt about jeans), but the younger generation has fully embraced them (and, now, fleece pants).


----------



## Oldsarge

For anyone who is positively addicted to RL adds, there seems to be a blog on tumblr devoted to them. I'm passing.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Oldsarge said:


> For anyone who is positively addicted to RL adds, there seems to be a blog on tumblr devoted to them. I'm passing.


While I look forward to More from Ralph each day, it is for the camaraderie, not the Ralph..


----------



## Tweedlover

TKI67 said:


> While I look forward to More from Ralph each day, it is for the camaraderie, not the Ralph..


I enjoy seeing Ralph's creations, even when I disagree with some designs or how they're presented. No doubt his design house is far and away my favorite.


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> Without the giant "R" on the sweater, I like it. I'd prefer if the stripes were on one arm as, I think, they were traditionally done, but it's the huge "R" that kills it for me.
> 
> I think sweats are the new jeans, meaning, they are the pants that our generation thinks don't belong in regular clothing outfits (like our parents or grandparents, depending on one's age, felt about jeans), but the younger generation has fully embraced them (and, now, fleece pants).


I actually see few people wearing sweat pants out and about. Also don't see many snappy dressers, but, then again, since Covid, about the only places I get to are Walmart, pharmacies and grocery stores. Walmart and grocery stores around here have never been beacons of snappy dressers. Dressing up for work, even in professional settings, has become fairly rare here at least, though. I worked in a community mental health center and always dressed up, occasionally even wearing my suits. Part of my job for awhile involved visiting our local residents who'd been admitted to our state psych hospital. The units where I'd visit would include some very psychotic individuals. Nearly every time I showed up there would be several patients who would stop me to comment approvingly on my attire. Used to joke about that with my colleagues that even those who were quite mentally ill had a good appreciation for style.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Without the giant "R" on the sweater, I like it. I'd prefer if the stripes were on one arm as, I think, they were traditionally done, but it's the huge "R" that kills it for me.
> 
> I think sweats are the new jeans, meaning, they are the pants that our generation thinks don't belong in regular clothing outfits (like our parents or grandparents, depending on one's age, felt about jeans), but the younger generation has fully embraced them (and, now, fleece pants).


LOL. Tongue firmly in cheek, may I suggest that the logical end to this progression of comfort might be to dispense with trousers altogether, and embrace the great ancient Roman tradition of men (and women) wearing tunics. Very comfortable especially in hot weather (I have been in Rome and Southern Italy in August, it is almost as hot as South India!). After all the mighty Roman army, which conquered a good chunk of the known world then, were men in "dresses" -- well, tunics. With a bit of leather and metal armour, I'll concede. The Conquest of Gaul, anyone?

There is also a long tradition, in many hot countries in Asia, of men and women wearing sarongs, _mundus_, and other wraparound garments. Very light and comfortable, and I have seen men do heavy labour wearing them. But I imagine the Western influence could become stronger over time and those folks would be wearing sweatpants too!

Seriously, though, I think we are seeing the exodus of formal clothes, hastened by changes in perception, and by the lockdown last year. Whether there will be a return to those sorts of clothes remains to be seen. But if fashion goes in cycles, we might get back to suits and ties in a few years. The requirements for clothing in various types of work, and in different societies, cultures and subcultures will have a lot to do with the clothing they adopt. Some segments of society may change little: I can't see the military change types of clothing in any dramatic way in the next fifty years -- but maybe I am wrong.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> From a Ralph email the other day titled "Collegiate Prep."
> View attachment 55110
> View attachment 55111
> View attachment 55112


As we so often see happening, Ralph is messing with our minds, but the ad does raise an issue for consideration...are letterman sweaters coming back and forcing out letterman jackets as the athelets garment of choice? And please forgive me, but I just can't restrain myself from taking advantage of this opportunity to brag a little. In keeping with the letterman theme, both of our grandsons proved their mettle at the Regional wrestling championships and will be competing in Florida's State Wrestling Championship this coming weekend. We are very proud of them.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> LOL. Tongue firmly in cheek, may I suggest that the logical end to this progression of comfort might be to dispense with trousers altogether, and embrace the great ancient Roman tradition of men (and women) wearing tunics. Very comfortable especially in hot weather (I have been in Rome and Southern Italy in August, it is almost as hot as South India!). After all the mighty Roman army, which conquered a good chunk of the known world then, were men in "dresses" -- well, tunics. With a bit of leather and metal armour, I'll concede. The Conquest of Gaul, anyone?
> 
> There is also a long tradition, in many hot countries in Asia, of men and women wearing sarongs, _mundus_, and other wraparound garments. Very light and comfortable, and I have seen men do heavy labour wearing them. But I imagine the Western influence could become stronger over time and those folks would be wearing sweatpants too!
> 
> Seriously, though, I think we are seeing the exodus of formal clothes, hastened by changes in perception, and by the lockdown last year. Whether there will be a return to those sorts of clothes remains to be seen. But if fashion goes in cycles, we might get back to suits and ties in a few years. The requirements for clothing in various types of work, and in different societies, cultures and subcultures will have a lot to do with the clothing they adopt. Some segments of society may change little: I can't see the military change types of clothing in any dramatic way in the next fifty years -- but maybe I am wrong.


Semper MCMLXVII et Ursi Theodores!


----------



## drpeter

Ah, to arrest time and savour the same day, the same month, the same year, over and over again. Hmmm...I seem to recollect a movie about that sort of thing. It involved groundhogs, though, not teddy bears.

There used to be a St Theodore's Catholic Church in Rochester, NY, where I went to graduate school. I am certain you don't mean that, LOL.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> Ah, to arrest time and savour the same day, the same month, the same year, over and over again. Hmmm...I seem to recollect a movie about that sort of thing. It involved groundhogs, though, not teddy bears.
> 
> There used to be a St Theodore's Catholic Church in Rochester, NY, where I went to graduate school. I am certain you don't mean that, LOL.


You are safe. We are not going back to grad school! It is interesting to me what a pivotal year 1967 was. I graduated from high school in Virginia in 1967, a very traditional Episcopal all boys prep school, and while there I was thrust into the cauldron of the prep attire police. I spent much of the summer in San Francisco and then started college in Claremont, where my uniform was decidedly less rigid. So when I say that I am stuck in 1967 it includes both modes of dress and life!


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 55117


No to the tie nor the shirt either me thinks.


----------



## drpeter

TKI67 said:


> You are safe. We are not going back to grad school! It is interesting to me what a pivotal year 1967 was. I graduated from high school in Virginia in 1967, a very traditional Episcopal all boys prep school, and while there I was thrust into the cauldron of the prep attire police. I spent much of the summer in San Francisco and then started college in Claremont, where my uniform was decidedly less rigid. So when I say that I am stuck in 1967 it includes both modes of dress and life!


Of course, 1967 brings to mind the Summer of Love. I wonder if you got involved in all that after your high school graduation, especially since you were in San Francisco.

I went to an Indian school that was structured along the lines of an English boys' public school, except for the fact that we were day scholars, and not boarders. LOL, caning was a regular feature, although done by the masters and not the monitors or prefects. I think the school started out in the early 20th century as a boarding school, and our first (and perhaps the second) headmaster was English -- a man named GF Clarke. The school itself was funded by the then King of Travancore, who also had the English start University College, modeled after University College London, in the late nineteenth century. Again, the principals of University College were mostly Englishmen, and later on, Indians. When I was there in the early and mid-60s, Clarke's bungalow was still standing at one corner of the school quad where the classrooms and halls were located. After school, I went to the above-mentioned University College for my undergraduate BSc (honours) in mathematics.

I can say that my education was a classical one in a sense, although the classics involved were both Western and Indian. But our masters strongly encouraged us to read widely outside school, and that was a real education too. Travel was also suggested as a fine way to broaden the mind, although most of us could not afford any sort of extended travel. I've told many friends that I would not change one bit of my education if I had to do it all over again.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> Of course, 1967 brings to mind the Summer of Love. I wonder if you got involved in all that after your high school graduation, especially since you were in San Francisco.
> 
> I went to an Indian school that was structured along the lines of an English boys' public school, except for the fact that we were day scholars, and not boarders. LOL, caning was a regular feature, although done by the masters and not the monitors or prefects. I think the school started out in the early 20th century as a boarding school, and our first (and perhaps the second) headmaster was English -- a man named GF Clarke. The school itself was funded by the then King of Travancore, who also had the English start University College, modeled after University College London, in the late nineteenth century. Again, the principals of University College were mostly Englishmen, and later on, Indians. When I was there in the early and mid-60s, Clarke's bungalow was still standing at one corner of the school quad where the classrooms and halls were located. After school, I went to the above-mentioned University College for my undergraduate BSc (honours) in mathematics.
> 
> I can say that my education was a classical one in a sense, although the classics involved were both Western and Indian. But our masters strongly encouraged us to read widely outside school, and that was a real education too. Travel was also suggested as a fine way to broaden the mind, although most of us could not afford any sort of extended travel. I've told many friends that I would not change one bit of my education if I had to do it all over again.


Yes, the Summer of Love set me on a good path for time as a West coast hippie, first in SoCal and later in Oregon. I was a day student as well during high school, and the Claremont colleges, where I went to college and grad school, were on the Oxonian model, so some similarities to your journey. It was a very solid and broadening education. Later I went to law school, not fun but a heck of a lot easier than grad school in English Lit!

I am impressed you were a math major. That was my brother's path, too, all the way to a Ph. D. I always loved math conceptually but found the underlying arithmetic very tedious. I found algebra even more tedious. I would look at a quadratic equation and visualize the graph and then grit my teeth to solve it for whatever the missing variable was. Yuck.


----------



## drpeter

TKI67 said:


> Yes, the Summer of Love set me on a good path for time as a West coast hippie, first in SoCal and later in Oregon. I was a day student as well during high school, and the Claremont colleges, where I went to college and grad school, were on the Oxonian model, so some similarities to your journey. It was a very solid and broadening education. Later I went to law school, not fun but a heck of a lot easier than grad school in English Lit!


That is a bit surprising to me -- I would have thought that English Lit would be far more enjoyable (and even easier, in some ways) than law school. Justice is an interesting area, in terms of theory and philosophy, and one also influenced by culture. I've read people like Michael Walzer, John Rawls and Amartya Sen, who deal with broad questions -- that is quite enjoyable. But I can't imagine going through three or four years of cases and precedents!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> That is a bit surprising to me -- I would have thought that English Lit would be far more enjoyable (and even easier, in some ways) than law school. Justice is an interesting area, in terms of theory and philosophy, and one also influenced by culture. I've read people like Michael Walzer, John Rawls and Amartya Sen, who deal with broad questions -- that is quite enjoyable. But I can't imagine going through three or four years of cases and precedents!


A small grad program, five at the MA level, in lit. is all consuming. Every week for each of three classes you had to read prodigious works plus scads of reference materials. On the subject of reference materials it was so competitive you were often driving all over Southern California (UCLA, USC, LA City Library, the Huntington, etc.) to find reference materials. Imagine reading Ulysses in a week and multiply that reading load by three and then doubling or more as you pull in references and criticism. Thankfully I loved to read those things and was a fast reader. I have gone back nearly half a century later and reread many of those books, much more slowly, savoring them, and find it even better that way.

Law school had very few classes I found interesting, and I quickly learned how to know enough to do well without frying my brain. I doubled up with summer school to get through it faster. I do not think I could have handled three years of that.


----------



## Oldsarge

drpeter said:


> Seriously, though, I think we are seeing the exodus of formal clothes, hastened by changes in perception, and by the lockdown last year. Whether there will be a return to those sorts of clothes remains to be seen. But if fashion goes in cycles, we might get back to suits and ties in a few years. The requirements for clothing in various types of work, and in different societies, cultures and subcultures will have a lot to do with the clothing they adopt. Some segments of society may change little: I can't see the military change types of clothing in any dramatic way in the next fifty years -- but maybe I am wrong.


If anything the reverse seems to be going on, at least in the military. The newest version of the Class A uniform is very, very similar to the one worn during WWII, even to including the beloved Eisenhower jacket.


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> If anything the reverse seems to be going on, at least in the military. The newest version of the Class A uniform is very, very similar to the one worn during WWII, even to including the beloved Eisenhower jacket.


I should have made myself a bit clearer. What I meant to say was that the basic structure of the military uniform hasn't changed hugely and will not. But it may revert to older styles. For example, I doubt if standard kit will include anything outlandish or extraordinary - it will be trousers, shirts, jackets, caps/berets, and shoes/boots. The nature and colours may change and may be cyclical like civilian fashions. For example the WWII style "pinks and greens" (which I love) that has been reintroduced is an instance of going back in time, the cyclical aspect of style. But it would be unlikely for uniforms to change to something dramatically different -- like capes, or breastplates, or pith helmets, to pick a few random items from the military's distant past, LOL. Or in a futuristic way, the Star Fleet uniforms one sees in Star Trek or the never-ending Star Wars series.


----------



## drpeter

TKI67 said:


> Yes, the Summer of Love set me on a good path for time as a West coast hippie, first in SoCal and later in Oregon. I was a day student as well during high school, and the Claremont colleges, where I went to college and grad school, were on the Oxonian model, so some similarities to your journey. It was a very solid and broadening education. Later I went to law school, not fun but a heck of a lot easier than grad school in English Lit!
> 
> I am impressed you were a math major. That was my brother's path, too, all the way to a Ph. D. I always loved math conceptually but found the underlying arithmetic very tedious. I found algebra even more tedious. I would look at a quadratic equation and visualize the graph and then grit my teeth to solve it for whatever the missing variable was. Yuck.


LOL. I studied mathematics so I could do mathematical modelling in cognitive psychology. I never had any intention of specializing in mathematics beyond the undergraduate level. On the other hand, I was led to psychology through my interest in neuroscience, and eventually I came full circle, becoming a cognitive neuroscientist.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 55219


Do those jeans have "Skull and Crossbones" embroidered on them? Oh no! LOL.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> Do those jeans have "Skull and Crossbones" embroidered on them? Oh no! LOL.


Pandering to Yale?

Nice jacket, better if worn collar down. Nice to see an OCBD rather than an OCUD, but the stripes to not work with the jacket. Inoffensive tie that does not make the most of the jacket. Sweater itself is ok but too bulky under a jacket. Nice shoes, but although I am a devotee of going sockless with loafers, it does not extend to tassel loafers. It's an LHS only thing. The tucking job looks as if he was rushed to get out of the bathroom. The jeans are just weird. All in all Ralph has depicted a preppy breaking a lot of sartorial rules for which his classmates will look down on him. However, the detailed critique aside, this just shows how much heavy lifting a good jacket can do to make the overall impression of an outfit.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Do those jeans have "Skull and Crossbones" embroidered on them? Oh no! LOL.





TKI67 said:


> Pandering to Yale?
> 
> Nice jacket, better if worn collar down. Nice to see an OCBD rather than an OCUD, but the stripes to not work with the jacket. Inoffensive tie that does not make the most of the jacket. Sweater itself is ok but too bulky under a jacket. Nice shoes, but although I am a devotee of going sockless with loafers, it does not extend to tassel loafers. It's an LHS only thing. The tucking job looks as if he was rushed to get out of the bathroom. The jeans are just weird. All in all Ralph has depicted a preppy breaking a lot of sartorial rules for which his classmates will look down on him. However, the detailed critique aside, this just shows how much heavy lifting a good jacket can do to make the overall impression of an outfit.


Considering where we are in the sartorial world today, I could abide everything but the (I guess) embroidered jeans - that's a bridge too far for me. Also, I love the jacket and that it doesn't look cut insanely skinny (but it does look too short). For a Ralph fashion shoot, I'll overlook the forced popped collar, and give it a solid B (with an A close at hand if he switched his jeans).


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> Considering where we are in the sartorial world today, I could abide everything but the (I guess) embroidered jeans - that's a bridge too far for me. Also, I love the jacket and that it doesn't look cut insanely skinny (but it does look too short). For a Ralph fashion shoot, I'll overlook the forced popped collar, and give it a solid B (with an A close at hand if he switched his jeans).


I'm not sure if those jeans are embroidered. Might just be one of those ridiculous RL jeans that come "pre-stained.'" I've seen such advertised with what look like paint spatters or dirt-stains. I've got a pair of jeans I've relegated to just work pants given a small hole at the corner of a back pocket. Guess if I splashed some paint on it I'd be quite the fashion plate.


----------



## Oldsarge

I have a jacket in an identical plaid which I like very much. I also have some GTH cords embroidered with beagles and shotguns and a blue striped shirt. But not, I hasten to point out, all at once.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

A sedate overall impression despite mixing plaids and another horizontally striped shirt. The breast pocket flap on the jacket is highly functional, preventing adding a PS. I love PS, but with that outfit I shudder to think what might have been selected. A black and white M.C.Escher, perhaps?


----------



## drpeter

TKI67 said:


> The breast pocket flap on the jacket is high functional, preventing adding a PS


I am unclear what this means. Did you intend to say "highly functional"? And what is a PS? I thought of Polo Shirt, obviously, but it did not make sense given the context. Also, earlier you referred to OCUD shirts, and that escaped me too. (Google was not much help in either case).

Perhaps these abbreviations are something very obvious that I'm missing -- you know, I'm getting old!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

"High" should have been "highly."
PS = Pocket square, an abbreviation I have seen used here in the past.
OCUD is my own creation, made up especially for Ralph. It stands for Oxford Cloth Unbuttoned Down. 😜


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 55266


Quite nice. Seems that I'm most drawn to suits with glen plaid. Both my suits were glen plaid, 1 green and 1 navy. I think the striped shirt works with that because the dark suit has rather muted plaid.


----------



## Fading Fast

I can see @upr_crust wearing today's Ralph outfit. While he usually puts more color in his outfits, he does, occasionally, lean monochromatic. I can just easily see Upr wearing that entire ensemble.


----------



## upr_crust

Fading Fast said:


> I can see @upr_crust wearing today's Ralph outfit. While he usually puts more color in his outfits, he does, occasionally, lean monochromatic. I can just easily see Upr wearing that entire ensemble.


I could certainly see myself wearing the suit, though I might be a little less adventuresome in mixing my patterned accessories, and yes, on occasion, I do go monochromatic - not often, but it does happen.


----------



## drpeter

TKI67 said:


> "High" should have been "highly."
> PS = Pocket square, an abbreviation I have seen used here in the past.
> OCUD is my own creation, made up especially for Ralph. It stands for Oxford Cloth Unbuttoned Down. 😜


I thought it might be unbuttoned, but had never seen that used before, LOL. And I should have figured out PS for pocket square since it makes good sense with the pocket flap. Thans for the clarifications, old boy! One lives and learns.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> I thought it might be unbuttoned, but had never seen that used before, LOL. And I should have figured out PS for pocket square since it makes good sense with the pocket flap. Thans for the clarifications, old boy! One lives and learns.


I have a messed up penchant for acronyms and making up names. They never catch on.


----------



## Oldsarge

TKI67 said:


> A sedate overall impression despite mixing plaids and another horizontally striped shirt. The breast pocket flap on the jacket is highly functional, preventing adding a PS. I love PS, but with that outfit I shudder to think what might have been selected. A black and white M.C.Escher, perhaps?


Nice suit and tie but the shirt is unacceptable.


----------



## Tweedlover

Oldsarge said:


> Nice suit and tie but the shirt is unacceptable.


Shirt might have worked better with a solid colored tie.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 55312


Nice rig...and finally one that I might wear, without modificastion. Ralph, keep up the good work.


----------



## GRH

Zipper: Ugh. "Casually exposed" belt buckle: Double ugh.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Dressed for work as an Austin venture capitalist.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> Dressed for work as an Austin venture capitalist.


Agreed. I see a ton of young men (in their twenties) dress this exact way on their way to/from office jobs. Twenty years ago - thirty for sure - almost all of them would have been in suits and ties.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 55391


I do love the look of the rig, but certainly not the fit...he looks like 3 pounds stuffed in a two pound sack!


----------



## Old Road Dog

Sample size for men's fashion models is typically 40R. When the cut of that jacket and the sweater are factored in, that sample should have been 41R , but samples are made one time, at the very start of the selling cycle. That model looks uncomfortable, and a bit foolish, but he gets paid for it.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I do love the look of the rig, but certainly not the fit...he looks like 3 pounds stuffed in a two pound sack!





Old Road Dog said:


> Sample size for men's fashion models is typically 40R. When the cut of that jacket and the sweater are factored in, that sample should have been 41R , but samples are made one time, at the very start of the selling cycle. That model looks uncomfortable, and a bit foolish, but he gets paid for it.


I agree with this ⇧ but would add that I think a 41L would be an even better choice.

That said, there's a lot going on in that outfit - more patterns in one than I'd ever attempt - but I like it anyway.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

I agree the jacket is the wrong size, and the conflicting patterns would make the outfit as uncomfortable for me as would the fit. I think a solid blue shirt, even with the contrasting collar, would help immensely.


----------



## Tweedlover

Had heard that in recent times jackets were being cut on the short side as that one seems to be. I prefer a longer jacket length, but am a sucker for glen plaid.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Tweedlover said:


> Had heard that in recent times jackets were being cut on the short side as that one seems to be. I prefer a longer jacket length, but am a sucker for glen plaid.


You speak for many of us, perhaps most.


----------



## ran23

My last Lord & Taylor 38-Short is a 28.5" length.


----------



## Old Road Dog

Totally agree with comments about the length of todays jackets. Those shown are too short, but that is the new norm for the mass market customer, as you can see on TV / sports personalites any Sunday afternoon. POLO got sucked into this vortex by store merchandise managers who are totally driven by fashion. 
Most of here were nurtured by highly refined specialty stores that are sadly, long gone, along with the dedicated staffers that are now pensioners.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 55423


Pretty sad day for Ralph's design team. Only offense of note is the sweater hiked up to show buckle, but the rest just seems uninspired.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 55456


That tennis sweater would be so much more desirable, sans the embroidered crown and caption......though I do like that Tweed sport jacket.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

As usual, the early bird, Eagle, gets it right! The shoes are pretty nice, too.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> That tennis sweater would be so much more desirable, sans the embroidered crown and caption......though I do like that Tweed sport jacket.





TKI67 said:


> As usual, the early bird, Eagle, gets it right! The shoes are pretty nice, too.


Agreed. We chat about it all the time, I just don't understand the giant logos, crest, shields, etc. Also, I almost never see anyone wearing these items, so who buys them? Just like with the giant bear on expensive sweaters, I all but never see them. Yet, year after year, Polo keeps making them, so somebody must be buying this stuff, but who?


----------



## Tweedlover

eagle2250 said:


> That tennis sweater would be so much more desirable, sans the embroidered crown and caption......though I do like that Tweed sport jacket.


I definitely wouldn't pair that sweater with that jacket. It probably would look better without the crown too.


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> Agreed. We chat about it all the time, I just don't understand the giant logos, crest, shields, etc. Also, I almost never see anyone wearing these items, so who buys them? Just like with the giant bear on expensive sweaters, I all but never see them. Yet, year after year, Polo keeps making them, so somebody must be buying this stuff, but who?


RL puts those bears on lots of different merchandise and it is hard to believe they sell enough of that to continue to plaster them on things. Same feeling about their use of overly large polo players.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Maybe the Trad forum can start a clothing trend by all going out and buying navy blue sweaters with giant teddy bears and wearing them everywhere. It gets old, being noticed and singled out as excessively dressed merely for wearing khakis or cords, an OCBD, and LHS or Sperrys. This way people would have a legitimate reason to call us out.

An afterthought. The Purple Label neck roll jumper with Teddy Bear is only $1950, the price of an entire wardrobe for many. Egads!


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> Maybe the Trad forum can start a clothing trend by all going out and buying navy blue sweaters with giant teddy bears and wearing them everywhere. It gets old, being noticed and singled out as excessively dressed merely for wearing khakis or cords, an OCBD, and LHS or Sperrys. This way people would have a legitimate reason to call us out.
> 
> An afterthought. The Purple Label neck roll jumper with Teddy Bear is only $1950, the price of an entire wardrobe for many. Egads!


LOL.

I've been in the NYC flagship and have seen a stack of those $1950 Teddy Bear sweaters. Yes, a stack.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 55480


Sumer is icumen in!


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 55480


Brooks Brothers sells a Seersucker suit just like that . I have one hanging in my closet. There is also a green and white stripped one thqat has never seen much wear time. I wouldn't recommend green in seersucker!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> Brooks Brothers sells a Seersucker suit just like that . I have one hanging in my closet. There is also a green and white stripped one thqat has never seen much wear time. I wouldn't recommend green in seersucker!


I am with you, Eagle. Green is not a great choice for seersucker. My favorites are grey and blue. It is too pricey, but Ben Silver has one in a spectacular shade of blue. The effect is very bright and fun. I am more in the Haspel league for seersucker (and poplin).


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Brooks Brothers sells a Seersucker suit just like that . I have one hanging in my closet. There is also a green and white stripped one thqat has never seen much wear time. I wouldn't recommend green in seersucker!


I own a Polo grey-striped and "tea stained" one bought on a crazy sale (I think it was 70% off in October and it was the last one on the rack and happened to be in my size - this was ten or so years ago). I like the "tea stain" as I find the pure white too strong for my taste. The "tea staining" (don't know if that is a real term or Polo made it up) really tamps down the volume on the seersucker.

I also own a blue-grey stripe and tea-stained unlined seersucker sport coat from J.Crew that's become my summer go-to sport coat (I bought a second one, also on a deep sale that I, from memory, paid about $70 for to have in "reserve") as it's light as heck and surprisingly versatile. While I enjoy seeing all the other colors, I've only ever owned a blue- or grey-striped one.



TKI67 said:


> I am with you, Eagle. Green is not a great choice for seersucker. My favorites are grey and blue. It is too pricey, but Ben Silver has one in a spectacular shade of blue. The effect is very bright and fun. I am more in the Haspel league for seersucker (and poplin).


I know that BS one at it is very summery fun (a bit strong for me). Like you, I can't pay a lot for seersucker, so it's either the lesser-priced brands or I wait for a meaningful sale. My very vague memory is that the Polo suit I noted was ~$500 down from ~$1500 and even the $500 seemed a lot, but man was it worth it as it is a really well-made suit for the money.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Old Road Dog

That is good, classic, wearable Ralph. (Please tell me the trousers are not patchwork hot pan holders!)


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Old Road Dog said:


> That is good, classic, wearable Ralph. (Please tell me the trousers are not patchwork hot pan holders!)


Great colors but his typical penchant for what would, to me, violate fixed and immutable laws, namely "never more than one striped item (the exception being a repp stripe tie with a seersucker suit)" and "never mix stripes and plaids." I realize those rules are rules that others have pretty much forsaken over the years, but they worked for my forbears, and they work for me,


----------



## Tweedlover

TKI67 said:


> Great colors but his typical penchant for what would, to me, violate fixed and immutable laws, namely "never more than one striped item (the exception being a repp stripe tie with a seersucker suit)" and "never mix stripes and plaids." I realize those rules are rules that others have pretty much forsaken over the years, but they worked for my forbears, and they work for me,


I'd agree that usually mixing striped shirts with plaid jackets doesn't work well.


----------



## Peak and Pine

TKI67 said:


> ...the exception being a repp stripe tie with a seersucker suit.


A repp tie isn't striped.
A stripe runs up and down.
Running left to right it's a band.
Diagonally, as on a repp tie, it's a bend, running dexter to sinister.

Thank you for dialing _Call an Anal Guy and Make His Day._


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Peak and Pine said:


> A repp tie isn't striped.
> A stripe runs up and down.
> Running left to right it's a band.
> Diagonally, as on a repp tie, it's a bend, running dexter to sinister.
> 
> Thank you for dialing _Call an Anal Guy and Make His Day._


Yes! Why use the correct word when you can use the one people will understand?


----------



## Old Road Dog

Very interesting linguistics, describing the American version of the repp tie in rather British formality of speech. In Great Britain, the stripe in a repp tie would run from sinister to dexter, or left-to-right. I have to confess to never having heard of a "bend" in neckwear terminology. A repp tie with a diagonal stripe was generally called a "regimental repp", in the hundred or so stores that I dealth with.


----------



## Oldsarge

I have only seen the term 'bend' refer to a diagonal stripe in heraldry, never in clothing.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Old Road Dog said:


> In Great Britain, the stripe in a repp tie would run from sinister to dexter, or left-to-right.


As worn (_heart to hand), _but as looked at, how ties are usually described, the Brit version runs dexter to sinister, the American the opposite. Hearaldic direction is _as viewed_, even though the crest may be worn on clothing. My cleaning lady told me this. (Emma, a baroness, temporarily down on her luck.)

Once again, thank you for dialing Call an Anal Guy. Subscribe now to get a daily anal rambling in your in-box. Next up: how to properly pronounce Lebanon. Hint, it rhymes with Washington.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Old Road Dog

That gray theme works for me 100%. The Visuals Staff over over at The Mansion has switched to decaf, apparently. If I had the money and a place to wear those getups I'd be all over them.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

They are lovely. The ticket pocket got me to musing. The ticket is disappearing from use, replaced by the QR code on your phone. The earth is grateful. Tickets are not likely to be recycled. The anachronist is wistful.


----------



## drpeter

Perhaps one can re-purpose that ticket pocket and use it to hold some other material: a few coins, some business cards, or your winning lottery ticket folded in rwo and tucked in safely, as you saunter up (or, in the West, mosey down) to collect your winnings dressed in your Sunday best.


----------



## fred johnson

I still think the dresser pins the waist in a little to much for my taste the jackets seem to pull; I would be uncomfortable around the gut with that fit and I have a flat stomach.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 55527


I love the look or the jackets, but hate to have to point out that, with their composition of the sales photo above, seem to indicate that Ralph and his henchmen are suggesting poor sartorial habits, specifically jamming one's hands in their coat pockets. It breaks the pocket down and pulls the fabric all out of shape. Admittedly I have worn out a crap ton of trouser pockets, but my suit coat and sport coat pockets have remained pristine! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

I like both jackets, especially the one on the right with the tic-weave cloth. But on the model to the left, the patterns clash a bit too much. And that waistcoat looks entirely out of place!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

So if you pair a checked jacket with a Royal Stewart button down and a heavily patterned, perhaps Fair Isle, knit, buttoning vest, and you are at a loss as to how to pull it all together, Ralph recommends a skinny Gryffindor tie with what appears to be a tie tack. As Ron Weasley would say, "Brilliant."


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> I like both jackets, especially the one on the right with the tic-weave cloth. But on the model to the left, the patterns clash a bit too much. And that waistcoat looks entirely out of place!





TKI67 said:


> So if you pair a checked jacket with a Royal Stewart button down and a heavily patterned, perhaps Fair Isle, knit, buttoning vest, and you are at a loss as to how to pull it all together, Ralph recommends a skinny Gryffindor tie with what appears to be a tie tack. As Ron Weasley would say, "Brilliant."


I thought it was, possibly, the worst combination of classic items I've ever seen Ralph put together (not talking about his crazy oversized crests or ripped-jeans stuff). The shirt and sport coat patterns might singularly be the most unpleasant-to-the-eye combination ever. I like everything by itself and some of it could work together, but hard to understand what the designer was going for in this one.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I like everything by itself and some of it could work together, but hard to understand what the designer was going for in this one


Probably shock and awe.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> Probably shock and awe.


I like to think that he was planning to don a cloak of invisibility.


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> I thought it was, possibly, the worst combination of classic items I've ever seen Ralph put together (not talking about his crazy oversized crests or ripped-jeans stuff). The shirt and sport coat patterns might singularly be the most unpleasant-to-the-eye combination ever. I like everything by itself and some of it could work together, but hard to understand what the designer was going for in this one.


love the jackets, but have never seen such an eye-hurting blend of patterns.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

This reminds me of an event at my school called Senior Gross Day. Boys wore hideous combinations, often digging out ties from the forties and garish jackets. I wore a fairly fitted rust colored Harris Tweed herringbone with a belted bi-swing back, a vest in McLeod tartan (bright yellow being a major element), a white point collar shirt, and an olive challis bowtie. If it were posted in color on this thread it would actually seem pretty put together and sedate for Ralph, but for the day I wore it, it was conceived as the epitome of bad taste.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Old Road Dog

That blazer, in doeskin flannel, is my sole remaining piece of PRL clothing; given to me a few years ago by a former colleague who got it while working at the Chicago Polo store. I also have that silk knit tie. What is missing is an appropriate Polo flannel trouser. At one time (the 1980's), my entire wardrobe including footwear, was Polo.


----------



## Fading Fast

Old Road Dog said:


> That blazer, in doeskin flannel, is my sole remaining piece of PRL clothing; given to me a few years ago by a former colleague who got it while working at the Chicago Polo store. I also have that silk knit tie. What is missing is an appropriate Polo flannel trouser. At one time (the 1980's), my entire wardrobe including footwear, was Polo.


I thought it was a beautiful representation of a classic look with the tie bringing in a bit of freshness. I think you should add the trousers as you'd then have a heck of a nice outfit.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

One thing I loved about Ralph's pants from the '80s is how beautifully they draped. In the 1966 era the flannels favored by southern preps billowed just a tad, evoking but fortunately not copying Oxford bags. Ralph used that look very effectively in the '80s.

The PRL doeskin blazer was a bit of a grail item. Perfection in each detail.


----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph email a day or so ago.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> From a Ralph email a day or so ago.
> View attachment 55771


I was an adult and could have worn that sweater in the year it advertises and it has been 54 years since 1967 passed. Jeez Louise, I'm really feeling old! LOL.


----------



## Old Road Dog

Ralph seems to be stuck on using the year of his company's founding as a styling theme. I get it, but my desire to advertise that and spend hundreds of dollar to do it is non-existent.


----------



## Fading Fast

Old Road Dog said:


> Ralph seems to be stuck on using the year of his company's founding as a styling theme. I get it, but my desire to advertise that and spend hundreds of dollar to do it is non-existent.


So, I assume you won't be purchasing the "I ❤ Polo" cardigan in the bottom pic either.

I just don't get it, but as we note all the time, they must be selling this stuff to somebody or they wouldn't make it.


----------



## Tweedlover

The sweater tied around the waist is to keep the butt warm?👎


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Tweedlover said:


> The sweater tied around the waist is to keep the butt warm?👎


Just a colorful accent for the man who isn't up to dressing with curtains and throw pillows.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Serviceable. Probably give it about a seven and a half. I am not a fan of the stripe. Although he shows better than PRL average ability to cover his belt, he still fails to complete the task.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> Serviceable. Probably give it about a seven and a half. I am not a fan of the stripe. Although he shows better than PRL average ability to cover his belt, he still fails to complete the task.


I wondered about the belt thing too as it seems neither to show the belt, as most Ralph ads, do nor cover it.


----------



## fred johnson

It is just my eye, but has Ralph been slightly increasing the width of his jacket lapels lately?


----------



## Old Road Dog

Fred, I think you are correct. I like the lapel seen lately, but the coat length and vertical proportion is still way too short and overall too tight. I get a little claustrophobic just looking at the ads; like getting caught in an elevator stopped between floors. A full-body face mask.


----------



## Fading Fast

Cross post with the Tweed thread.


----------



## drpeter

The _sang-froid_ of this whole ensemble is completely destroyed by the indigo jeans -- if that is what they are.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

I have always loved that particular herringbone. It is an exceedingly hard color to find.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 55791


I am struck by the way he has folded his cuffs, turning them under, rather than folding them to the outside. This is the way I fold my long sleeve shirt cuffs, but Ralph's model and I seem to be in the minority on this approach...yes, no?


----------



## drpeter

I can't be too sure of the colour from just looking at the image, but I have a herringbone sports jacket that is a sort of lovat -- it looks similar to the jacket here. In sunlight, my jacket has a green tint to it, but indoors, in artificial light, it looks more grey.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> I am struck by the way he has folded his cuffs, turning them under, rather than folding them to the outside. This is the way I fold my long sleeve shirt cuffs, but Ralph's model and I seem to be in the minority on this approach...yes, no?


Yes, I believe you are in the minority. Mostly, people fold the sleeve outward rather than tucking them under. In warmer climes, long sleeves can also be folded over multiple times until it rests just above the elbow. That could be difficult to do with the inward approach.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> I have always loved that particular herringbone. It is an exceedingly hard color to find.


Agreed, the cream of the black and cream tends to be darker, which obviously darkens the overall look vs today's jacket. Today's Ralph one is a beautiful color if you can find it.


----------



## Tweedlover

drpeter said:


> The _sang-froid_ of this whole ensemble is completely destroyed by the indigo jeans -- if that is what they are.


I think indigo jeans with the jacket are fine, but nit with a waistcoat and tie, too.


----------



## drpeter

Tweedlover said:


> I think indigo jeans with the jacket are fine, but nit with a waistcoat and tie, too.


I agree, jeans or khakis are fine with tweed jackets. It is the rest of the ensemble that calls for trousers of the same fabric ( a three-piece suit) or perhaps grey flannels, although I might avoid the waistcoat if were to pair the jacket with flannels.


----------



## Tweedlover

I'd be fine with a tweed waistcoat sans jacket and tie with jeans. If I ever get my hands on one while thrifting.


----------



## Oldsarge

eagle2250 said:


> I am struck by the way he has folded his cuffs, turning them under, rather than folding them to the outside. This is the way I fold my long sleeve shirt cuffs, but Ralph's model and I seem to be in the minority on this approach...yes, no?


Most definitely.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 55910


Certain things are simply timeless, like putting on a sweater and a polo coat to toss a football on a hillside in tall grass with a woman in a coat and tie. It resonates at such a deep level. Positively Jungian. Not.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> Certain things are simply timeless, like putting on a sweater and a polo coat to toss a football on a hillside in tall grass with a woman in a coat and tie. It resonates at such a deep level. Positively Jungian. Not.


Away from all the affectations you rightly note (he even has a hint of Bobby Kennedy to him), I did like his outfit as a nice way to wear a Polo coat as part of a casual outfit.


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> Away from all the affectations you rightly note (he even has a hint of Bobby Kennedy to him), I did like his outfit as a nice way to wear a Polo coat as part of a casual outfit.


I like dressier topcoats with casual outfits, which is the chief way I wear mine now that I'm retired. Never owned a polo coat though.


----------



## Oldsarge

Her bare tummy seriously distracts from his outfit.


----------



## Oldsarge

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 55916


Splendid, just splendid.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Nice look. You saw a lot of dark tone non-tweed, non-blazer sport coats like this in the mid and especially the early 1960s before the Ivy penchant for tweeds and blazers really spread. They might technica lly have been tweeds, but the colors and tones were dark enough you really had to study them closely to see things like herringbones in them.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 55955


While enjoying these photos/illustrations, I often find myself wondering what the photographer/illustrator had in mind as he/she formatted the image. Today's offering is a perfect example. We are selling Chaps, arguably Ralph's economy line and we see our subject wearing a coat, tie and odd slacks, sitting on the concrete with his back against the wall, protectively clutching his tie or perhaps his stomach. A bicycle leans against the wall next to him. The shot clearly doesn't show the garments to their best effect and this is supposed to be a clothing add. I want to ask the photographer, "whatcha doin?" What would his/her answer be?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

I think Ralph always goes for a larger concept than solely the clothing. He tries to convey an attitude or air that evokes a lifestyle of such luxury that it becomes almost indifferent. Sprezzatura, it's not just for ties!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Nice coat.


----------



## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> Nice coat.


Add to that the shirt and tie are potentially nice and the Wing Tips would be quite handsome, if paired with the right socks. Beyond that, I am at a loss for words. LOL.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Needs Teddy bears.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 55994


That's a good example of how wearing a great topcoat, (polo), with a casual outfit can look good. Though not crazy about the belt.


----------



## Fading Fast

Tweedlover said:


> That's a good example of how wearing a great topcoat, (polo), with a casual outfit can look good. Though not crazy about the belt.


I agree, I liked everything but the out-of-season belt and silly popped one-half of the OCBD collar.


----------



## Fading Fast

Sunday seems like a nice day for a Ralph bear to pop up.








Since he's a bear wearing Ralph, shouldn't there be a big picture of a human on the front of his sweater?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> Sunday seems like a nice day for a Ralph bear to pop up.
> View attachment 56073
> 
> Since he's a bear wearing Ralph, shouldn't there be a big picture of a human on the front of his sweater?


How is it that the bear manages to fix his collar, tuck in his shirt, pair stripes with solids, and accent his outfit with but a single pop of color? Ralph's photographers need to study the bear.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> How is it that the bear manages to fix his collar, tuck in his shirt, pair stripes with solids, and accent his outfit with but a single pop of color? Ralph's photographers need to study the bear.


Great point.

Our Teddy Bear, who is a regular reader of AAAC, asked me to type his answer (paws and keyboards you know): "Teddy Bears are classics and dress accordingly."

Okay then, I guess he told us. Kidding aside, I agree, I tend to like the way Ralph dresses his bears better than his humans.


----------



## Tweedlover

TKI67 said:


> How is it that the bear manages to fix his collar, tuck in his shirt, pair stripes with solids, and accent his outfit with but a single pop of color? Ralph's photographers need to study the bear.


True, but don't get the label's teddy bear fixation.


----------



## drpeter

Suppose those of the ursine persuasion had been permitted to attend one of those hallowed Ivy institutions. Which one do you think Mr Teddy RL Polo Bear would have attended?


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Suppose those of the ursine persuasion had been permitted to attend one of those hallowed Ivy institutions. Which one do you think Mr Teddy RL Polo Bear would have attended?


Yale or Harvard as the Princeton Tigers are out for obvious reasons and Columbia, being in NYC, doesn't deliver quite the full Ivy experience.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> Yale or Harvard as the Princeton Tigers are out for obvious reasons and Columbia, being in NYC, doesn't deliver quite the full Ivy experience.


I am pretty sure he went to Cal.


----------



## drpeter

A Cal partisan!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> A Cal partisan!


Well, they are the Bears, aren't they? I like them fine but am not partisan.


----------



## drpeter

I understand. I was only thinking of the Ivies, though. Then there's the Chicago Bears, eternal rivals of the Green Bay Packers in my part of the nation...


----------



## smmrfld




----------



## Oldsarge

Riverside!


----------



## Peak and Pine

Go Black Bears!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

I would give it a score of 10. Jacket, too short. Vest too short and not a great look with the matching jacket but ten points for being correctly buttoned. Belt showing. Pants not penalized for being pleated because that is merely my preference but serious deductions for the excessive turn-ups without being engaged in barefoot clam digging, shirt penalized for confused and non-conforming collar treatment, tie not penalized for being unable to decide if it is a stripe or an emblematic because that is another judge's preference, pocket square penalized for inappropriate use of a clashing tartan, socks received the standard trad polka dot penalty, shoes disqualified because the judge finds them too clunky despite the excellent color, and, lastly, failure to execute correct watch and cuff assemblage. So all in all it is a 10, out of 100. However, in Ralph's world it scores pretty high because the other judges are bears and like that it was executed without excessive layering, collar popping, quirky hats, animal or date motifs, or inappropriate props such as footballs or women with bare tummies. Viewed through a slight squint it works in terms of colors and textures but not fit.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 56092


Is there anything right about that rig? Individual components, such as the coat, the shirt, the tie and the footwear are pretty darned nice, but what a waste of a potentially handsome jacket!


----------



## Old Road Dog

The "dressed hurriedly as his girl-friend's husband arrives home early" look.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> I would give it a score of 10. Jacket, too short. Vest too short and not a great look with the matching jacket but ten points for being correctly buttoned. Belt showing. Pants not penalized for being pleated because that is merely my preference but serious deductions for the excessive turn-ups without being engaged in barefoot clam digging, shirt penalized for confused and non-conforming collar treatment, tie not penalized for being unable to decide if it is a stripe or an emblematic because that is another judge's preference, pocket square penalized for inappropriate use of a clashing tartan, socks received the standard trad polka dot penalty, shoes disqualified because the judge finds them too clunky despite the excellent color, and, lastly, failure to execute correct watch and cuff assemblage. So all in all it is a 10, out of 100. However, in Ralph's world it scores pretty high because the other judges are bears and like that it was executed without excessive layering, collar popping, quirky hats, animal or date motifs, or inappropriate props such as footballs or women with bare tummies. Viewed through a slight squint it works in terms of colors and textures but not fit.





eagle2250 said:


> Is there anything right about that rig? Individual components, such as the coat, the shirt, the tie and the footwear are pretty darned nice, but what a waste of a potentially handsome jacket!





Old Road Dog said:


> The "dressed hurriedly as his girl-friend's husband arrives home early" look.


Pretty much agree with all three of you. Here's the thing I don't get: Ralph has been doing odd outfits like this (or with the other odd stuff that @TKI67 notes in his post) for, from memory, a couple of decades now and, in all that time, I've never seen anybody on the streets of NYC (or anywhere else) dressed this way.

I see plenty of Ralph clothes (or did pre Covid) in NYC, plenty of tightly fitted Ralph clothes and an odd item here or there (I've seen women, not men, wearing the "big polo" logo polo shirt), but I never see anyone dressed like this guy or in any of the other crazy items we note here all the time. I've only seen one bear sweatshirt (maybe sweater, don't remember) and that was on an older guy in an airport who looked like he didn't care what he wore.

My friend in the fashion industry would probably tell me that all this "unconventional" stuff exists to create "buzz" in the fashion industry and press, which, that industry believes, translates into sales of its more traditional products. Maybe.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Isn't it funny
How a bear makes money? 
Buzz, buzz, buzz,
I wonder how he does.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> ...but I never see anyone dressed like this guy or in any of the other crazy items we note here all the time.


I think most people one sees on the street are dressed in jeans, Dockers, or some similar kinds of trousers, and common shirts and sweaters or polo shirts or T shirts in the summer. These items of clothing are usually nondescript, in some shade of blue, beige, black or brown. Perhaps in the bigger towns and cities one might see a smattering of folks dressed in suits. In Madison, Wisconsin, the only people in suits walking down State Street are legislators and pols when the state house or senate is in session!

The only time I have seen an identifiable article of Ralph Lauren clothing is when someone has a shirt, sweater or polo shirt with the RL logo on the left side of the item worn. And most of the bears I have seen -- there are a few in my part of the world, and some of them even come into town once in a great while -- wear lovely brown or black wool coats covering their body, unadorned by any logo. No other article of clothing needed -- at least, that's what the bears claim.

If Gary Larson were still around doing his Far Side cartoons, he could have a field day, even a banner year, doing riffs on the whole business of animals in human clothing. He would likely have his bears in the advertising world putting humans in bear suits with creative logos on those suits -- say, humans wearing bear suits with the RL bear logo on them. The permutations are infinite.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> I think most people one sees on the street are dressed in jeans, Dockers, or some similar kinds of trousers, and common shirts and sweaters or polo shirts or T shirts in the summer. These items of clothing are usually nondescript, in some shade of blue, beige, black or brown. Perhaps in the bigger towns and cities one might see a smattering of folks dressed in suits. In Madison, Wisconsin, the only people in suits walking down State Street are legislators and pols when the state house or senate is in session!
> 
> The only time I have seen an identifiable article of Ralph Lauren clothing is when someone has a shirt, sweater or polo shirt with the RL logo on the left side of the item worn. And most of the bears I have seen -- there are a few in my part of the world, and some of them even come into town once in a great while -- wear lovely brown or black wool coats covering their body, unadorned by any logo. No other article of clothing needed -- at least, that's what the bears claim.
> 
> If Gary Larson were still around doing his Far Side cartoons, he could have a field day, even a banner year, doing riffs on the whole business of animals in human clothing. He would likely have his bears in the advertising world putting humans in bear suits with creative logos on those suits -- say, humans wearing bear suits with the RL bear logo on them. The permutations are infinite.


When I visit my girlfriend's family in Michigan, I see what you describe above. In NYC, as you note, I do see more people dressed up in suits or in nicer casual outfits, but again, all but never in all this crazy "fashion" Ralph stuff we see in his advertising and fashion shows.


----------



## Tweedlover

:icon_headagainstwall:


----------



## Peak and Pine

I think the days of Lauren's foisting the aspirational life upon us by pushing us up to the past via veneration of the fictional as if it were real, through Waugh, Fitzgerald, gramaphones and talkies are fried and done to a crisp. He seems to have, correctly I feel, caved to the current throw anything together school of dress, but with each of the anythings being quite special and very, very Laureny.


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 56092


I always think how dorky can you be to roll up your pants cuffs like that. One of the sillier trends these days. Vest too short and not a fan of the cuffs sticking out and rolled over the cuffs of that jacket.


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> When I visit my girlfriend's family in Michigan, I see what you describe above. In NYC, as you note, I do see more people dressed up in suits or in nicer casual outfits, but again, all but never in all this crazy "fashion" Ralph stuff we see in his advertising and fashion shows.


Yup, nobody dresses like Ralph's models in real life, which is generally a good thing.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Forget the RL coat of arms for a second. The colour combination is admirably bold and striking. I have paired jacket and trousers in the opposite direction -- a deep red, sack-cut vintage BB blazer with charcoal grey slacks and a dark, hunter green, long-sleeved polo knit shirt. This combination of colours is also perfect for the holiday season at year's end.

I would avoid any patterns anywhere in such combinations with bold colours. The boldness of the red is diluted when attention is drawn to any other part of the ensemble. So, deep, dark colours in the other garments must act as a kind of ground or foil to highlight and fore-ground the red. And the red has to be really a deep red for this to look elegant and not costume-like. LOL, the wrong shade of red (or burgundy) will likely lead to people thinking you are staff in the establishment -- useful though, if you are a secret agent.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 56138


The color combo does work, but the jacket and the trousers are just too small! Note to Ralph:

Dear Ralph; 
When you are working with male models, presenting a flaring hip saddle, you really shouldn't photograph them wearing an undersized coat and/or trousers. When you do not include their head in the view, they present the profile of a curvy lady. That is just not a good look for the guys!

Sincerely,
A Brooks Brothers customer.


----------



## Tweedlover

The color of the pants is too garish for me. And again with the "highwater" rolled cuff pants. Not a thing I'd like.


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Tweedlover

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 56150


Well, it might make some sense to wear "highwater" pants when you're on the water.


----------



## Old Road Dog

I always wear a tie when I go canoeing.....how about you?


----------



## Old Road Dog

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 56092
> 
> In reference to the above photo and several others depicting a collar pin used in conjuction with a button-down collar, I submit this article by the esteemed Bruce Boyer: http://www.ivy-style.com/bruce-boyer-and-the-buttonless-buttondown.html


----------



## drpeter

I just read the Boyer piece. Unless I am missing something, Boyer commissioned Mercer and Sons to make him an oxford shirt with a soft, unlined long point collar, very popular in the forties, as he notes. He calls it, perhaps tongue-in-cheek, as a "buttonless buttondown collar". 

If the collar has no holes, or buttons to go into the collar, then calling the whole shooting match a buttondown collar appears to be a contradiction in terms or a sly attempt to pull your leg (which is quite far from the collar, one hopes).


----------



## 215339

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 56150


This is definitely how to pull off the rolled cuff look.

It doesn't work so well with tailoring, but does work with more casual ensembles. Cargo and fatigue pants are a good example of this. It helps when it's a baggy and/or tapered fit to create a different silhouette.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 56176


What's up with the brogue peeking in at the bottom?


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> What's up with the brogue peeking in at the bottom?


It felt left out?

Kidding aside, good catch and I have no idea.


----------



## Tweedlover

delicious_scent said:


> This is definitely how to pull off the rolled cuff look.
> 
> It doesn't work so well with tailoring, but does work with more casual ensembles. Cargo and fatigue pants are a good example of this. It helps when it's a baggy and/or tapered fit to create a different silhouette.


Looks OK with very casual pants and boots. Otherwise, still not a fan.


----------



## 215339

Tweedlover said:


> Looks OK with very casual pants and boots. Otherwise, still not a fan.


Understandable, I'm on the fence for myself.

I'm experimenting with the pair of fatigue pants I bought.

I may end up getting annoyed at having to roll a hem perfectly after each wash and just end up getting a permanent actual cuff.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Old Road Dog

Ralph is quite photogenic. The smart-looking outfit, which I would guess is from about ten years ago, adds to the effect: leather jeans, tweed coat and western-style chambray shirt (how about that vintage rodeo buckle?). He looks real and authentic...his models often don't.


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 56219


He's actually dressing decently for a change in this photo.  Most of the photos I've seen of him do not reflect well on his personal sense of taste.


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 56250


To my eye, this is one of Ralph's better sales ads. However, I cannot imagine ever pulling on a pair of orange pants, nor tying a sweater around my neck. I would also remind that old geezer to get his damned hands out of his pocket(s). Otherwise, nice picture.


----------



## Tweedlover

eagle2250 said:


> To my eye, this is one of Ralph's better sales ads. However, I cannot imagine ever pulling on a pair of orange pants, nor tying a sweater around my neck. I would also remind that old geezer to get his damned hands out of his pocket(s). Otherwise, nice picture.


Yeah, I like my fellow geezer's outfit. Though can't say much for the tortured line of the brim of his hat. Otherwise, the hat is nice.


----------



## fred johnson

I don't think its just me but Ralph's jacket lapels have gotten a little wider this season.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 56295


Hooray for the timeless look of these colors.


----------



## Peak and Pine

TKI67 said:


> Hooray for the timeless look of these colors.


Yes, but not so much for the smouldering stare at those who are lesser dressed off camera.

Never sure if we're just posting pics here, or posting stuff we like. Don't care much for the Gatsby-esque stuff like I once did, but here's a hybrid something I can latch onto...


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Peak and Pine said:


> Yes, but not so much for the smouldering stare at those who are lesser dressed off camera.
> 
> Never sure if we're just posting pics here, or posting stuff we like. Don't care much for the Gatsby-esque stuff like I once did, but here's a hybrid something I can latch onto...
> 
> View attachment 56299


That is an odd outfit, but I still find it engaging, even though it violates almost every rule by which I dress myself. Go figure. I think it is strange how advertising photos sell products with glowering models. Are they trying to imprint the notion that I, too, could look upon the world with disdain if only I were bedecked in PRL? Yikes!


----------



## Tweedlover

Peak and Pine said:


> Yes, but not so much for the smouldering stare at those who are lesser dressed off camera.
> 
> Never sure if we're just posting pics here, or posting stuff we like. Don't care much for the Gatsby-esque stuff like I once did, but here's a hybrid something I can latch onto...
> 
> View attachment 56299


Nice outfit but for 1 detail-put on some socks.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Peak and Pine

^^^
The 1920s again? Change the century, keep the year...










Please overlook that the kid is about to have a full crotch rip. It's Black Label, he can afford a new pair.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> ^^^
> The 1920s again? Change the century, keep the year...
> 
> View attachment 56351
> 
> 
> Please overlook that the kid is about to have a full crotch rip. It's Black Label, he can afford a new pair.


Could it be that Ralph might have added a bit of elastane to the cloth to prevent just such a rip?


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 56366


Nice pic, but it would have been made better by not popping the shirt collar and not rolling the jacket sleeve cuff. Otherwise, go get those customers, Ralph!


----------



## Tweedlover

eagle2250 said:


> Nice pic, but it would have been made better by not popping the shirt collar and not rolling the jacket sleeve cuff. Otherwise, go get those customers, Ralph!


Yeah, don't like to see jacket cuffs rolled up.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Nice pic, but it would have been made better by not popping the shirt collar and not rolling the jacket sleeve cuff. Otherwise, go get those customers, Ralph!





Tweedlover said:


> Yeah, don't like to see jacket cuffs rolled up.


Perhaps he's a doctor about to go into surgery and he rolled up his "surgeons" cuffs in preparation. 

Kidding aside, while I'm not a fan of the rolled up sleeves, the only thing that truly bothers me in this outfit is the popped collar (and I'd do away with the pocket square, but I know that's just me).

I really like the individual items and the combination; it's one of the few Ralph ads where I'd wear it just like its shown (with the collar un-popped). And as an added plus, the model doesn't look angry or catatonic.


----------



## Peak and Pine

There's a bit of a better dressed Jeff Spicoli* to that. I could get into most of it, when18. Fast forward, I'd still do the tee, the shirt, the sweater and the jacket, the rest would stay packed away with memories of a teen age, plus the ocean.

*


----------



## Peak and Pine

From the Spring '21 collection. Think this may be cotton. I like this, looks lived in and the pants hastily ironed as the new crease doesn't entirely line up with the old. Not sure about throat latches on summer suits, but this whole thing seems a-ok or better.


----------



## Oldsarge

I'm not fond of the shirt. I don't know what I'd substitute for it, something in French blue, perhaps. But otherwise, it looks like a good outfit for a warm spring day (which we haven't had so far this year.)


----------



## Peak and Pine

^^^

Yes, both the shirt and that tie seem too 'heavy' for the outfit.


----------



## Tweedlover

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 56377
> 
> 
> There's a bit of a better dressed Jeff Spicoli* to that. I could get into most of it, when18. Fast forward, I'd still do the tee, the shirt, the sweater and the jacket, the rest would stay packed away with memories of a teen age, plus the ocean.
> 
> *
> View attachment 56379


Looks like he's having a rough "morning after." Is he wearing a long sleeved T-shirt under another shirt with that jacket? The seersucker jacket's pattern clashes a bit with the madras shorts(?)


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

I have a new term for what the RL advertising team has made a habit of doing. _Belt Exhibitionism_.

In the forthcoming DSM-V (out on May 22 from the American Psychiatric Association, the rumour goes) this condition will be defined as one of a class of disorders called the _Advertising Paraphilias_ -- unnatural extensions of dress and deportment taken to an extreme by advertising professionals.

In case you did not read the Harper's review of the fourth edition, still current, of the DSM, you might want to look it up: It is from the 90s, and is titled _The Encyclopedia of Insanity._ It is witty and caustic -- the review, that is. The manual itself is positively hilarious. I think it is worth the time spent reading it. Here it is:

https://harpers.org/archive/1997/02/the-encyclopedia-of-insanity/

As a cognitive neuroscientist ( I am no clinician ) I found it entertaining and have recommended it to friends. I think the DSM is mostly aimed at psychiatrists and psychologists who want to bill the insurance industry. It is also subject to the medical illusion that naming a disorder and listing a clutch of symptoms somehow improves our understanding of that disorder. Who would have thought that snoring could be a symptom of a mental disorder? Happy reading!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> I have a new term for what the RL advertising team has made a habit of doing. _Belt Exhibitionism_.
> 
> In the forthcoming DSM-V (out on May 22 from the American Psychiatric Association, the rumour goes) this condition will be defined as one of a class of disorders called the _Advertising Paraphilias_ -- unnatural extensions of dress and deportment taken to an extreme by advertising professionals.
> 
> In case you did not read the Harper's review of the fourth edition, still current, of the DSM, you might want to look it up: It is from the 90s, and is titled _The Encyclopedia of Insanity._ It is witty and caustic -- the review, that is. The manual itself is positively hilarious. I think it is worth the time spent reading it. Here it is:
> 
> https://harpers.org/archive/1997/02/the-encyclopedia-of-insanity/
> 
> As a cognitive neuroscientist ( I am no clinician ) I found it entertaining and have recommended it to friends. I think the DSM is mostly aimed at psychiatrists and psychologists who want to bill the insurance industry. It is also subject to the medical illusion that naming a disorder and listing a clutch of symptoms somehow improves our understanding of that disorder. Who would have thought that snoring could be a symptom of a mental disorder? Happy reading!


"Jargon, redundancy, and turgidity aside, what we have here is a fairly accurate description of Newt Gingrich's House of Representatives. The billing code is 297.3." This is bizarre indeed.


----------



## drpeter

TKI67 said:


> "Jargon, redundancy, and turgidity aside, what we have here is a fairly accurate description of Newt Gingrich's House of Representatives. The billing code is 297.3." This is bizarre indeed.


But I love the way he lights into the tome. Bizarre or not. Yes, the piece dates itself by its reference to Gingrich, if that is what you meant.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> But I love the way he lights into the tome. Bizarre or not. Yes, the piece dates itself by its reference to Gingrich, if that is what you meant.


I was just impressed that someone used "turgidity" and "Newt Gingrich" in the same sentence!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 56553


Letter jackets used to be a pretty prized possession in many young athletes wardrobes. All of our kids had them, our grand kids have lettered three and four time in multiple sports, but they show no interest in the jacket(s). Have times changed that much? Ah well, I've still got a few months to convince them they really, really want one! LOL. :crazy:


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> Letter jackets used to be a pretty prized possession in many young athletes wardrobes. All of our kids had them, our grand kids have letted three and four time in multiple sports, but they show no interest in the jacket(s). Have times changed that much? Ah well, I've still got a few months to convince them they really, really want one! LOL. :crazy:


We had white cardigan sweaters and pins that went on the big red letter for each year and each sport. I recall vaguely there was some special day, I believe it was Friday, when you could wear it to school. That was about all the use it got. I still have no idea why I hung onto it for years.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Letter jackets used to be a pretty prized possession in many young athletes wardrobes. All of our kids had them, our grand kids have letted three and four time in multiple sports, but they show no interest in the jacket(s). Have times changed that much? Ah well, I've still got a few months to convince them they really, really want one! LOL. :crazy:





TKI67 said:


> We had white cardigan sweaters and pins that went on the big red letter for each year and each sport. I recall vaguely there was some special day, I believe it was Friday, when you could wear it to school. That was about all the use it got. I still have no idea why I hung onto it for years.


By the '70s, at least in my NJ high school, a few athletes wore them, but they didn't really have the cachet that they had in an earlier time.

While athletes still commanded respect and the ultimate high school currency, girl's attention, it was long hair, jeans, fringe suede jackets, rock-band T-shirts, etc. that were really "cool."

Letterman jackets had too much of a pre-70s, "goody-goody" feel to them in that anti-establishment moment. That was just my impression from one high school.

Personally, I love the old cardigan sweaters with the stripes on one sleeve. I'd like to say they are a "timeless" look, but clearly, we are seeing in real time that nothing truly is.


----------



## Oldsarge

TKI67 said:


> I was just impressed that someone used "turgidity" and "Newt Gingrich" in the same sentence!


To me it's a redundancy.


----------



## Oldsarge

Mid-60's Lettermen's jackets had a great deal of status, so much so that we in the arts and academics resented that we couldn't wear clothing that displayed our prowess at whatever we were best at. If they have lost their ancient appeal, my grudges rejoice.irate:


----------



## eagle2250

TKI67 said:


> We had white cardigan sweaters and pins that went on the big red letter for each year and each sport. I recall vaguely there was some special day, I believe it was Friday, when you could wear it to school. That was about all the use it got. I still have no idea why I hung onto it for years.


Our jackets had a purple melton wool body and white leather sleeves. I'm sure my letter jacket is stored with my High School class ring. Now if I could just remember where I put that class ring? I haven't seen either in at least 30 + years! :crazy:


----------



## Oldsarge

I never got a class ring from High School but I still have both my alumni and Master's rings from both colleges.


----------



## ran23

A while back I sold some gold chains, watch and Class Ring-18K, for ca$h.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Despite breaking rules that may exist only in my mind, this shows a nice classic palette.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> Despite breaking rules that may exist only in my mind, this shows a nice classic palette.


I agree. Compared to so much of the crazy we see from Ralph, I'm not going to nitpick a nice outfit (he says as he tries to reach into the screen and button the one undone button collar).


----------



## Peak and Pine

In the style of the above, but (to me) a bit better...










...and I cheated. It's not Lauren, it's Brooks Brothers.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 56568


There is much to like about the picture above. They all work well together and each garment/accessory (except the bracelet cluster), but why not finish the job...button both collar points down, button the top button on the shirt and tighten the tie (if you are going to wear a tie, do it right or take it off!) and get rid of that assortment of memory strings on his left wrist. Otherwise, man I really like that rig!


----------



## Peak and Pine

Going to great lengths to be obtuse (I kinda like it though), photography in the natural, colorful outdoors standing in front of a scrim depicting the unnatural, uncolorful outdoors. From the Spring '21 collection...


----------



## Tweedlover

Peak and Pine said:


> Going to great lengths to be obtuse (I kinda like it though), photography in the natural, colorful outdoors standing in front of a scrim depicting the unnatural, uncolorful outdoors. From the Spring '21 collection...
> 
> View attachment 56606


Used to own a rugby shirt some 35 odd years ago. Recently tempted to buy another, which, I guess means you're never too old to aspire to looking remotely like a RL model.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Tweedlover said:


> Used to own a rugby shirt some 35 odd years ago. Recently tempted to buy another, which, I guess means you're never too old to aspire to looking remotely like a RL model.


LOL, I've occasionally wished to be in an advertisement for Ford Trucks or, if was not to be seen by too large an audience (pun intended), for a Mini-Cooper, I have never wished to be a Ralph model. The fact is, in real life, I think I put myself together better than they do! For example, look at the rug in post #1194 above...U like the garments, but not how they are being worn (note the loose left collar tip, the untucked left side of the shirt, etc).


----------



## drpeter

I almost bought a Mini Cooper five years ago when I needed to buy a new car. A friend persuaded me to buy a VW GTI with a rather nice supercharger. It performs well, but is awfully finicky and high-strung, like a racehorse. Maybe my next car will be a Mini.

As for adverts, if you can't get into Ford or Mini commercials, maybe you can be the next most interesting man in the world and drink Dos Equis beer...LOL


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> I almost bought a Mini Cooper five years ago when I needed to buy a new car. A friend persuaded me to buy a VW GTI with a rather nice supercharger. It performs well, but is awfully finicky and high-strung, like a racehorse. Maybe my next car will be a Mini.
> 
> As for adverts, if you can't get into Ford or Mini commercials, maybe you can be the next most interesting man in the world and drink Dos Equis beer...LOL


As the driver of an '08 Mini S convertible (in Oxford green), I strongly encourage driving Minis. My top is down virtually all the time. It is a ton of fun, drives well, and (duh) is easy to park. The backseat holds my golf clubs. The boot holds the groceries. It gets mediocre mileage.

I found a local BMW mechanic to get better service and avoid dealership prices. Minis are pretty much the smallest cars in the BMW lineup. There is minimal Brit about them anymore. I was on the road the other day and saw an old British Mini. It made my car seem huge!


----------



## Oldsarge

My previous gf drove a Mini. I wasn't impressed. They look cute but don't hold enough, at least not by my standards. That's why I eventually ended up with a pickup again. Living without a 4x4 pickup just didn't cut it. It was like not having enough shotguns.


----------



## eagle2250

I've been negotiating the next vehicle purchase with the wife. My preference is the resurrected Ford Bronco, Sport, partially financed by trading in SWMBO's beloved Honda CRV. My classic Beauty is amenable with the purchase of a Bronco, but insists the trade in ought to be my Cadillac SRX. It's frustrating...women can be hardheaded and so darned unreasonable! LOL.


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> My previous gf drove a Mini. I wasn't impressed. They look cute but don't hold enough, at least not by my standards. That's why I eventually ended up with a pickup again. Living without a 4x4 pickup just didn't cut it. It was like not having enough shotguns.


Sarge, when I get a huge publisher's advance for the Great Indian American Novel, then I will go for a new Porsche 911 GT3. It's slightly more probable than winning the ol' lottery, which is not so bad.


----------



## Fading Fast

From a recent Ralph email, had a "old-school" Ralph feel to me


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> From a recent Ralph email, had a "old-school" Ralph feel to me
> View attachment 56629


Other than the abominable sweater tied around his neck, it looks pretty good. Although, if we are looking at an expanse of snow in the background, perhaps that nice blue sweater has a role in this picture! It's all about functionality.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Other than the abominable sweater tied around his neck, it looks pretty good. Although, if we are looking at an expanse of snow in the background, perhaps that nice blue sweater has a role in this picture! It's all about functionality.


I thought it might be water behind him, but my computer in now six years old, so who know what kind of resolution is left on my screen.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> I thought it might be water behind him, but my computer in now six years old, so who know what kind of resolution is left on my screen.


I once had a six year old computer, that was quite some years back, but just like a Timex, "it takes a licking and keeps on ticking!" Although, these days it sometimes makes a pond on a golf course look like a snowfield. Thanks for the added perspective. Have a a Happy Easter.


----------



## drpeter

Not sure what sort of computers you are talking about, but my 2014 vintage desktop Dell XPS 8700 with its 24" Ultrasharp monitor is still going strong. The screen is as clear as ever, but once in a great while, it has a tendency to go alarmingly black, then come back on again after I press firmly on one of the plugs -- it is a loose connection that I can fix by getting a new power cord, but it does not bother me very much any more. The plug goes into the monitor's bottom so it is inserted upward into the socket. I think over time gravity weakens the contact -- at least that is what I think is happening.

Other than this issue, the screen is great. I often watch some foreign films on it -- those that I can't get hold of, but are on Youtube. Very clear images. I might get a new machine this year or the next. though, just so that the hardware can keep up. I'm still running Windows 7, and I am not sure this machine can easily run Windows 10. In any case, I am going to be doing most of my computing with Linux Mint as the OS of choice.


----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph email yesterday. Love the last one for its nice father-son moment away from the "fun" shirt (which I'm not a big fan of).


----------



## drpeter

I love the idea of children and parents wearing clothes that reflect similar styles and colours. it reminds me of a photograph I saw once -- a father in his late twenties and a son in his seventh or eighth year, both sporting mohawks! Like the one below, although this is not the one I saw:


----------



## bigbobbailey

fred johnson said:


> Are pleats really back?


Definitely pleats have never left us. Although the majority of my clients are now tending to prefer the forward pleats as opposed to the reverse pleats that for a long time have been seen as a more modern style. 
personally I love having two pleats due to my larger proportion but in Asia they love the plain fronts option.


----------



## bigbobbailey

fishertw said:


> My Anderson Kilt is an 8 yard and heavy as well.


Ask any Scotsman and they'll tell you that when the kilt wearer is knelt on his knees the hem of the kilt must touch the ground, no other theories will be acceptable. That's the golden rule I've always been guided by and always will be.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

bigbobbailey said:


> Definitely pleats have never left us. Although the majority of my clients are now tending to prefer the forward pleats as opposed to the reverse pleats that for a long time have been seen as a more modern style.
> personally I love having two pleats due to my larger proportion but in Asia they love the plain fronts option.


I have had trousers with forward pleats for a long time, although I have plenty of plain front and reverse pleats models as well. These days, I have a slight preference for plain fronts, usually with turnups or cuffs. All these models are great with khakis and grey flannels, which constitute almost 90% of my daily wear.


----------



## bigbobbailey

drpeter said:


> I have had trousers with forward pleats for a long time, although I have plenty of plain front and reverse pleats models as well. These days, I have a slight preference for plain fronts, usually with turnups or cuffs. All these models are great with khakis and grey flannels, which constitute almost 90% of my daily wear.


 Definitely plain fronts are more popular just now. Although not so many orders with turnups these days. But I think casual trousers with a good turnup on look amazing for sure 👌


----------



## Peak and Pine

Not convinced this is Ralph Lauren (but I kinda like the hat)...










From the Fall '20 collection...










The above should meet all the specs you die hards long for. Including hair cut and real neat hedge trimming.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Just noticed/realized something. Have always disliked the sweater tied around the neck thing. But the kid above, it's loosely thrown over the shoulder and loosely knotted far below usual. So I sorta like, along with the hat from the first guy, but I may have already mentioned that. (Did you catch the clever link between photographs. Hint, think bicycle. Oops. Think I just spoiled it.)


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Old Road Dog

If the above is current, Polo's lapels are definitely broadening. That guy must have dressed before the sun came up. 

The post above this one with the suede coat is well done.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Old Road Dog said:


> If the above is current, Polo's lapels are definitely broadening.


It's 10 years old, Spring '11


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 56714


The color of the pants, is too glaring to go with the rest of the outfit.


----------



## Fading Fast

Tweedlover said:


> The color of the pants, is too glaring to go with the rest of the outfit.


I thought, if you are going to wear a version of Nantucket Reds as part of a sport-coat-and-tie combo, this one worked pretty well for also being pretty aggressive.

It's not something I'd do as, in particular, I'd drop one pattern out of the three (shirt, sport coat and tie).

Perhaps Ralph is wearing me down as he does so many really out-there things that the stuff on the bubble, like this outfit, doesn't bother me anymore.

I love the liner of the raincoat - nice touch.


----------



## Fading Fast

Apropos of yesterday's conversation, it's this type of stuff from Ralph that softens me up for the less-extreme outfits like in the pic I posted yesterday.


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Apropos of yesterday's conversation, it's this type of stuff from Ralph that softens me up for the less-extreme outfits like in the pic I posted yesterday.
> View attachment 56737


:crazy: Oh mu....I must be way more out of touch with high fashion than I thought. Although I could use a couple of those sweatshirts emblazoned with R. L. Wolves Athletic Dept., as they would make great gifts for the grand sons . The boys have wrestled three and four years respectively for the Timber Creek High School as members of the TCHS Wolf Pack!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 56739
> 
> 
> View attachment 56740
> 
> 
> View attachment 56741


These convey complex messages. "Just because it's cold enough for a sweat shirt and fur lined moccasins, you should still wear some Madras because you might be overtaken by climate change." "Having and caring for a dog is a serious responsibility. It will require buying bucket hats." "A real outdoorsman doesn't go out to catch fish. He floats down the river in an inner tube so that he won't feel compelled to work a pool where trout are lurking. It doesn't really matter. That's why it's ok to use a big rod with 8 wt or heavier on a small stream." Yessir, Ralph has been sending us visual clues to complex matters.


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> Apropos of yesterday's conversation, it's this type of stuff from Ralph that softens me up for the less-extreme outfits like in the pic I posted yesterday.
> View attachment 56737


That is a bit of an assault to the eyes.


----------



## Oldsarge

I think the dog looks just fine.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 56758


Looks quite like 1 of my only 2 Polo shirts, though my little blue polo player on it is blueish.


----------



## ran23

Similar to what I am wearing but what is that 'belt'?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

ran23 said:


> Similar to what I am wearing but what is that 'belt'?


I assumed it was a grey heather sweatshirt, probably emblazoned 1967, tied around his waist.


----------



## Fading Fast

That is Ralph's "1967" sport coat.

A few years back, I bought that exact model on-line because, well, I love black and white herringbone (the above pic is fuzzy, but that's what it is).

But I returned it as the 40L was (from memory) 29" in length, which is too short for my body even in this time of shorter-length jackets.

IMO, the model's is too short on him as well


----------



## drpeter

I don't mean to offend Ralph or the model, but those jeans are so tattered and patched, they remind me of the kind of clothes farmers used to put on scarecrows! Not sure if they still plant scarecrows in fields.


----------



## Tweedlover

drpeter said:


> I don't mean to offend Ralph or the model, but those jeans are so tattered and patched, they remind me of the kind of clothes farmers used to put on scarecrows! Not sure if they still plant scarecrows in fields.


Forget pairing those jeans with any jacket. Even as casual wear, I wouldn't wear them. While I'll hang onto a tattered pair just in case there's some messy work to be done, those would get tossed before they reach that stage.


----------



## Fading Fast

Tweedlover said:


> Forget pairing those jeans with any jacket. Even as casual wear, I wouldn't wear them. While I'll hang onto a tattered pair just in case there's some messy work to be done, those would get tossed before they reach that stage.


I agree, it's just the crazy stuff that "fashion" does on the runway and in its ads. I don't get it, but there it is.

99% of the people I see, even in fashion-centric NYC, aren't wearing these "fashion" clothes.

Yes, I'll occasionally see someone in a full-on fashion getup and, yes, I'll see a "fashion" item as part of someone's outfit now and then, but very few dress even close to these "fashion" ads.


----------



## drpeter

There's a darker meaning that some social critics and observers have suggested when considering the meaning behind such styles. The general line of their reasoning is as follows:

One of the things that we see in societies and cultures is a tendency for some of the well-to-do people to mimic the conditions of life of the poor or the working class. Historically, those who wore patched and tattered clothing were those who could not afford to buy new clothes when the old ones got ragged. When the rich, who can afford new clothes, wear those kinds of patched or tattered clothing and elevate them to some kind of high fashion, they are, in effect, mocking the less fortunate. 

This extends from clothes to other matters as well, and the most extreme case I have heard of is the statement made by the singer Mariah Carey some years ago, about wanting to be as thin as the starving women in Ethiopia during that country's famine. She was roundly criticized for a lack of human feeling, and she hurriedly withdrew her statement and apologized. 

Another example is historical: In the twenties, some members of the aristocracy who were at university in England practised an artificial stuttering that mimicked the speech of people who had the actual affliction. Now this was not an imitation of something that happened to the poor. On the contrary, many people across the social classes experienced it, the most notable example being England's best and most decent monarch ever, King George VI.

I suppose one could make the argument that imitating the clothes of the poor, or the afflictions of the unfortunate, is an attempt to empathize with them, or express solidarity with them. As someone who is very ordinary in his circumstances, and who has seen poverty first-hand in many parts of the world, I have only this to say: If you want to be of any use to the poor and the downtrodden, take action to help them! Improve their circumstances. Unlike what many say in the most prosperous country in history, poverty is most emphatically not a character flaw, it is a result of the drift of large amounts of wealth to a tiny percentage of the population. Mahatma Gandhi once said that poverty is the worst form of violence.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> There's a darker meaning that some social critics and observers have suggested when considering the meaning behind such styles. The general line of their reasoning is as follows:
> 
> One of the things that we see in societies and cultures is a tendency for some of the well-to-do people to mimic the conditions of life of the poor or the working class. Historically, those who wore patched and tattered clothing were those who could not afford to buy new clothes when the old ones got ragged. When the rich, who can afford new clothes, wear those kinds of patched or tattered clothing and elevate them to some kind of high fashion, they are, in effect, mocking the less fortunate.
> 
> This extends from clothes to other matters as well, and the most extreme case I have heard of is the statement made by the singer Mariah Carey some years ago, about wanting to be as thin as the starving women in Ethiopia during that country's famine. She was roundly criticized for a lack of human feeling, and she hurriedly withdrew her statement and apologized.
> 
> Another example is historical: In the twenties, some members of the aristocracy who were at university in England practised an artificial stuttering that mimicked the speech of people who had the actual affliction. Now this was not an imitation of something that happened to the poor. On the contrary, many people across the social classes experienced it, the most notable example being England's best and most decent monarch ever, King George VI.
> 
> I suppose one could make the argument that imitating the clothes of the poor, or the afflictions of the unfortunate, is an attempt to empathize with them, or express solidarity with them. As someone who is very ordinary in his circumstances, and who has seen poverty first-hand in many parts of the world, I have only this to say: If you want to be of any use to the poor and the downtrodden, take action to help them! Improve their circumstances. Unlike what many say in the most prosperous country in history, poverty is most emphatically not a character flaw, it is a result of the drift of large amounts of wealth to a tiny percentage of the population. Mahatma Gandhi once said that poverty is the worst form of violence.


"The worst sin toward our fellow creatures is not to hate them, but to be indifferent to them: that's the essence of inhumanity." George Bernard Shaw


----------



## Tweedlover

drpeter said:


> There's a darker meaning that some social critics and observers have suggested when considering the meaning behind such styles. The general line of their reasoning is as follows:
> 
> One of the things that we see in societies and cultures is a tendency for some of the well-to-do people to mimic the conditions of life of the poor or the working class. Historically, those who wore patched and tattered clothing were those who could not afford to buy new clothes when the old ones got ragged. When the rich, who can afford new clothes, wear those kinds of patched or tattered clothing and elevate them to some kind of high fashion, they are, in effect, mocking the less fortunate.
> 
> This extends from clothes to other matters as well, and the most extreme case I have heard of is the statement made by the singer Mariah Carey some years ago, about wanting to be as thin as the starving women in Ethiopia during that country's famine. She was roundly criticized for a lack of human feeling, and she hurriedly withdrew her statement and apologized.
> 
> Another example is historical: In the twenties, some members of the aristocracy who were at university in England practised an artificial stuttering that mimicked the speech of people who had the actual affliction. Now this was not an imitation of something that happened to the poor. On the contrary, many people across the social classes experienced it, the most notable example being England's best and most decent monarch ever, King George VI.
> 
> I suppose one could make the argument that imitating the clothes of the poor, or the afflictions of the unfortunate, is an attempt to empathize with them, or express solidarity with them. As someone who is very ordinary in his circumstances, and who has seen poverty first-hand in many parts of the world, I have only this to say: If you want to be of any use to the poor and the downtrodden, take action to help them! Improve their circumstances. Unlike what many say in the most prosperous country in history, poverty is most emphatically not a character flaw, it is a result of the drift of large amounts of wealth to a tiny percentage of the population. Mahatma Gandhi once said that poverty is the worst form of violence.


Interesting hypothesis, which makes some sense.


----------



## Tweedlover

I was just perusing the RL site-what can I say? I love his clothes. OK, have long been used to how badly over-priced much of his clothes are. But, have just seen an all-time whopper. A Purple Label cashmere polo coat, (lovely as it is). for a whopping $15.000. That's almost as much as we plan to spend for another car we plan to shop for in the next few months.


----------



## drpeter

I'd rather spend $15K on first editions and rare stamps, LOL. I suppose we all have our preferences. And speaking of preferences, I somehow find myself less attracted to RL's wares than to those provided by O'Connell or J Press or the Andover shop. It is not that I am entirely into the TNSIL mode of dressing, I like other items as well.

But somehow, from my perspective, there seems to be something missing in the RL clothes -- perhaps it is all the strange, over-the-top advertising, or perhaps it is the eager imitation of a kind of imagined Englishness that Americans are so "nostalgic" for, such as those fake crests and blazer badges and what not. Even Ralph Lauren's name is a fake, English-sounding name (his name is Ralph Rueben Lifshitz).

The whole attempt at image-manufacturing seems blatant, and then he undercuts the perfect country squire image with all the patched and tattered jeans, belt buckles the size of hubcaps, and incongruous pairings of clothes with enormous crests and bears and so forth. As many here have remarked, these adverts sell clothes, so there must be a substantial number of customers who like this kind of advertising, and like the image he has made of the kinds of people who wear RL clothes.

When I see someone with the RL polo player logo on his shirt, I think of someone who may have picked them up at TJ Maxx's, or Kohl's or an RL outlet -- or even Goodwill. That person looks like a regular American to me, the people I see every day in my town, most of whom are known to me and are fine upstanding citizens. They don't look at all like the kind of person who larks about the moors and heather in Wiltshire or Sussex, wearing thornproof field jackets with shotgun shells in bellows pockets, clutching a Purdey and ready to slaughter grouse. But some of them are deer and turkey hunters, and they usually wear camos or blaze orange, LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 56826


I like the Tweed jacket, but would pair it with a pair of khaki hued wool gabs. The storm coat is a bit off putting, incorporating an overload of ornamental and questionably functional fasteners.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> I like the Tweed jacket, but would pair it with a pair of khaki hued wool gabs. The storm coat is a bit off putting, incorporating an overload of ornamental and questionably functional fasteners.


In the 1950s dress up as your favorite (fire fighter, policeman, cowboy, soldier) was a big thing for kids, going beyond hats, weaponry, and such to include whole outfits. The red coat looks like part of a set to dress your six year old as a fire fighter. The other guy, despite wearing a decent jacket and PS, looks like a lothario with his white trou and halfway unbuttoned shirt.


----------



## Fading Fast

If he'd button the bottom of the jacket (but how would we see his engined-turned belt buckle and want to buy one), this would be a modern outfit with some classic elements from Ralph that I like.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 56842
> 
> If he'd button the bottom of the jacket (but how would we see his engined-turned belt buckle and want to buy one), this would be a modern outfit with some classic elements from Ralph that I like.


That is a very handsome jacket, but as you observed, those last two buttons should be secured. Otherwise it just looks dorky. The engine turned belt buckle is a nice, traditionally Trad accessory. I do treasure the Tiffany Buckle my wife bought me many years back. It will someday surely be passed on to one of our grandsons!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> That is a very handsome jacket, but as you observed, those last two buttons should be secured. Otherwise it just looks dorky. The engine turned belt buckle is a nice, traditionally Trad accessory. I do treasure the Tiffany Buckle my wife bought me many years back. It will someday surely be passed on to one of our grandsons!


I have one, too, but from BB that I received as a gift from a girlfriend many years ago (I'm guessing about thirty). I remember, at the time, thinking it was an expensive gift (and it was and is), but looking back, on a cost-per-wear basis, it's not really that much money for such a nice item that, as in your case, can be passed on to another generation.


----------



## Old Road Dog

Expensive belt buckle, a gift from a former girl-friend....hmmm? The imagination races with possibilities!


----------



## Fading Fast

Old Road Dog said:


> Expensive belt buckle, a gift from a former girl-friend....hmmm? The imagination races with possibilities!


It was a serious relationship with a very nice girl that just - as happens to a lot of people in their twenties - didn't work out. We, genuinely, have remained friends. No dramatic story - sorry.


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 56842
> 
> If he'd button the bottom of the jacket (but how would we see his engined-turned belt buckle and want to buy one), this would be a modern outfit with some classic elements from Ralph that I like.


RL suede jackets are some of the nicest coats he does. When I see 1, I tend to love it, but I'd never afford the asking price.


----------



## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> It was a serious relationship with a very nice girl that just - as happens to a lot of people in their twenties - didn't work out. We, genuinely, have remained friends. No dramatic story - sorry.


Happens to people in their 60's and 70's, too, unfortunately.


----------



## Fading Fast

Tweedlover said:


> RL suede jackets are some of the nicest coats he does. When I see 1, I tend to love it, but I'd never afford the asking price.


I hear you. That one looked Purple Label to me, so I looked it up and, unbeknownst to me when I posted the pic, it's a current offering at Ralph for $3295. 😱


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 56862


Damn that clothes dryer! Shrunk another jacket!


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I hear you. That one looked Purple Label to me, so I looked it up and, unbeknownst to me when I posted the pic, it's a current offering at Ralph for $3295. 😱


Not to worry. Sooner or later, it will turn up in a thrift shop for $9.99. Probably with a decent patina on it, too.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Not to worry. Sooner or later, it will turn up in a thrift shop for $9.99. Probably with a decent patina on it, too.


Do you see a lot of Ralph's Purple Label items in your thrifting efforts?


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 56862


A club tie with a trucker jacket is a no for me. Once owned a trucker jacket nigh on to 40 years ago.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Do you see a lot of Ralph's Purple Label items in your thrifting efforts?


Not very much in this area. I do see plenty of RL items, but I think I may have seen two or three Purple Label jackets in the last year -- can't remember if they were orphaned suit jackets or sportcoats. I don't think they were in my size, or else I would have picked them up.

But my comment was a general one -- I am sure such items might turn up somewhere in the country, especially in thrift shops in the bigger cities.


----------



## Oldsarge

drpeter said:


> Not very much in this area. I do see plenty of RL items, but I think I may have seen two or three Purple Label jackets in the last year -- can't remember if they were orphaned suit jackets or sportcoats. I don't think they were in my size, or else I would have picked them up.
> 
> But my comment was a general one -- I am sure such items might turn up somewhere in the country, especially in thrift shops in the bigger cities.


Perhaps, but if you total the travel expenses involved in running around trying to find one I suspect that you will quickly exceed the cost of the original. However, there is always the thrill of the hunt. How much is that worth?


----------



## drpeter

Good point, Sarge. But for me, I am in no way engaged in a search for RL Purple Label, or any other RL items. If I run into something I like by RL, well and good. But my trips to the thrift shops in a 50 mile radius are well worth the returns -- the things I find. And in addition to the ineffable thrill of the hunt, there is also the unquantifiable happiness of the actual finds, the singular pleasures of driving, etc. LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

Oldsarge said:


> Perhaps, but if you total the travel expenses involved in running around trying to find one I suspect that you will quickly exceed the cost of the original. However, there is always the thrill of the hunt. How much is that worth?


I just don't buy a lot of clothes at all anymore - decent-sized wardrobe, little demand for new stuff in our ever-more-casual world - but when I did, I thought it was pretty easy to wait for a Ralph sale and buy Purple Label at 30% off if something was a must-have. Even at that price, the Purple Label stuff is very expensive and I don't think I ever did that (maybe for a dress shirt once, don't really remember).

I found, though, that if you were a regular in-person Ralph customer (I was for years), then you could often get lucky and get something 60%-70% off, or sometime, even more off if it was around at the end of the sale's window and you used a "coupon" on top of the markdown, etc.

I bought a Purple Label grey herringbone cashmere-wool blend three-piece suit that retailed for (from memory, but probably kinda close) ~$5500 for ~$1500 once that way. Nicest suit I ever owned and always got compliments on it even from people who didn't care much about clothes. I acquired a few other (not many) Purple Label items that way over the years.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 56883


The white knit polo shirt is nice, the trousers are pretty darned close to grand, but the hands in the pockets and the sweater tied around the neck and worn like a "dryer shrunken" cape, leave much to be desired. However, the facial expression is somewhat better than many.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

I am from a world where those pants belong with a suit, there being no such thing as casual navy blue striped pants. I agree with Eagle's take on the individual elements but cannot imagine putting them together.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> The white knit polo shirt is nice, the trousers are pretty darned close to grand, but the hands in the pockets and the sweater tied around the neck and worn like a "dryer shrunken" cape, leave much to be desired. However, the facial expression is somewhat better than many.


"'dryer shrunken' cape..."

LOL


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> I am from a world where those pants belong with a suit, there being no such thing as casual navy blue striped pants. I agree with Eagle's take on the individual elements but cannot imagine putting them together.


I've never gotten comfortable wearing striped pants that way either. I've owned a few over the years, but always felt that they looked like orphaned suits pants (even though they weren't).

I did once have a pair of cream linen summer dress trousers with a blue stripe that look great as they didn't "read" suit separate, but in general, I just avoid striped pants.


----------



## ran23

Last January, I got some Navy Plaid flannels, still on the fence about odd Navy trousers.


----------



## drpeter

Just picked up a pair of Corbin Navy Gabardine slacks an hour ago from Goodwill! It is100% wool, reverse pleats (American style) and cuffed, made in the US ("Artisan Gabardine" says the label, whatever that means, LOL). Best of all, it was $5.99, but they put it on clearance at the usual $1.99. It looks new as far as I can tell -- no tags, but no signs of being worn. Two bucks is a steal for a pair of US-made Corbin slacks, by any standards.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Tweedlover

I'm sort of on the fence about madras. But, this looks nice.


----------



## Fading Fast

Tweedlover said:


> I'm sort of on the fence about madras. But, this looks nice.


This one is somehow "toned down" in a way that I like versus some of the louder madras.


----------



## Oldsarge

I've never worn madras because--I don't know why. This combination is pretty upscale college-y and therefore enough Trad to be attractive.


----------



## Fading Fast

These pics are all from an Ralph email that came this week titled "For The Cool Breeze of Spring."


----------



## drpeter

The last image looks best because it seems the least cluttered, compared to the other two images of models. The mix of colours -- sage, ocean blue, cream -- and the one pattern in the T shirt is inventive and works really well. The fedora is a nice touch. And no belts! For once, this chap is not prone to belt exhibitionism.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

I have never worn (and do not believe I ever could wear) a scarf knotted around my neck with an open color shirt, but the small pop of color it adds is a good touch. My usual way of adding the pop of color with a casual outfit is by picking a surcingle belt. The palettes on these models are better than usual in my estimation.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> I have never worn (and do not believe I ever could wear) a scarf knotted around my neck with an open color shirt, but the small pop of color it adds is a good touch. My usual way of adding the pop of color with a casual outfit is by picking a surcingle belt. The palettes on these models are better than usual in my estimation.


I'm with you. I'm guessing there is some place somewhere where that scarf-knotting thingy wouldn't be a loud affection, but in our modern world where wearing chinos with and OCBD can prompt a "why so dressed up" comment, I wonder where that place would be?



drpeter said:


> The last image looks best because it seems the least cluttered, compared to the other two images of models. The mix of colours -- sage, ocean blue, cream -- and the one pattern in the T shirt is inventive and works really well. The fedora is a nice touch. And no belts! For once, this chap is not prone to belt exhibitionism.


I agree, nice innovated combo of items, a pattern and colors.


----------



## drpeter

TKI67 said:


> My usual way of adding the pop of color with a casual outfit is by picking a surcingle belt.


Another way to do this would be to add a pocket square that is brightly coloured. I am not sure if I remember your saying you did not care for pocket squares, though.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I'm guessing there is some place somewhere where that scarf-knotting thingy wouldn't be a loud affection, but in our modern world where wearing chinos with and OCBD can prompt a "why so dressed up" comment, I wonder where that place would be?


If, instead of a knotted scarf, one wore an ascot, it might look better, don't you think? Personally I avoid both scarfs and ascots, and I only wear long scarves in winter, against the cold.


----------



## Oldsarge

I find that a scarf tied in a four-in-hand or a square knot makes a nice bridge between a necktie and an open throat for those in-between occasions. What such occasions might be, though, is a bit of a puzzler. Perhaps if I were a yachtsman?


----------



## drpeter

Or a cowboy, Sarge?


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> If, instead of a knotted scarf, one wore an ascot, it might look better, don't you think? Personally I avoid both scarfs and ascots, and I only wear long scarves in winter, against the cold.





Oldsarge said:


> I find that a scarf tied in a four-in-hand or a square knot makes a nice bridge between a necktie and an open throat for those in-between occasions. What such occasions might be, though, is a bit of a puzzler. Perhaps if I were a yachtsman?


That's exactly it - where does one wear knotted scarfs or ascots anymore? To be honest, as a child of the '70s, I don't ever remember seeing those on anyone when they didn't stand out very loudly.

What's amazing is the tie is slowly drifting into that world. It will probably take a few more decades as I'm the last generation that started his work career in a pure suit-and-tie environment, but when I'm in my '80s, it wouldn't surprise me if the tie was as odd then as an ascot is today.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> Another way to do this would be to add a pocket square that is brightly coloured. I am not sure if I remember your saying you did not care for pocket squares, though.


I am fine with pocket squares. I generally like them to coordinate with but not match the tie. There are two on the O'Connell's website between which I am thinking of picking one.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> If, instead of a knotted scarf, one wore an ascot, it might look better, don't you think? Personally I avoid both scarfs and ascots, and I only wear long scarves in winter, against the cold.


I just could never bring myself to wear an ascot. My cousin gave me a lovely one, and it felt as if I might as well put on a clown nose, wig, and shoes or just cut to the chase and pin a sign on my back that said, "Feel free to mock me." I have always been fine with my schoolboy scarf if it is cool enough, meteorologically that is.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 56984


Nicely done...all the way!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Nothing outlandish or_ outré_ for a change!


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Nothing outlandish or_ outré_ for a change!


I thought so too, but then I took a closer look at his sport coat, which seems to be some offshoot of the patchwork-jacket concept. It's not my thing, but maybe it would look okay in person since the colors in it are reasonably harmonized.

Otherwise, I really like his outfit - great use of grey flannel (I think they're flannel anyway).

I also like her simple, classic outfit


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> I thought so too, but then I took a closer look at his sport coat, which seems to be some offshoot of the patchwork-jacket concept. It's not my thing, but maybe it would look okay in person since the colors in it are reasonably harmonized.
> 
> Otherwise, I really like his outfit - great use of grey flannel (I think they're flannel anyway).
> 
> I also like her simple, classic outfit


Ordinarily patchwork jackets do not work for me either, but that one is the best of that sort I have ever seen.


----------



## drpeter

Until you both mentioned it, I did not even notice it was a patchwork jacket! I thought it was just a glen check, maybe because the colours are so similar. I agree that I would not wear one usually, but this one -- I just might be tempted.


----------



## Oldsarge

I concur and--I rather like it.


----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph email yesterday titled "A Season of Accessories."

We saw knotty-scarf guy dress this way before, but from a different angle.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Fading Fast said:


> We saw knotty-scarf guy dress this way before, but from a different angle.
> View attachment 57043


Not a scarf. It's a neckerchief. Big difference. The difference is I wouldn't wear a scarf. A neckerchief, yes. (And do.)










And my hero, one of 'em...


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> From a Ralph email yesterday titled "A Season of Accessories."
> 
> We saw knotty-scarf guy dress this way before, but from a different angle.
> View attachment 57043
> 
> View attachment 57044
> View attachment 57045
> 
> View attachment 57046


Nice blending of some elements of Trad with Euro. I particularly like espadrilles, although those are a bit garish. I prefer plain black or navy. Horizontally striped shirt, neckerchief tied neatly, and espadrilles is a combination that conjures up Cary Grant in To Catch a Thief, a casual look as perfect as the famous suit in North by Northwest. Ralph must like the classic movies!


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> From a Ralph email yesterday titled "A Season of Accessories."
> 
> We saw knotty-scarf guy dress this way before, but from a different angle.
> View attachment 57043
> 
> View attachment 57044
> View attachment 57045
> 
> View attachment 57046


There are nice sartorial beginnings to be found in each of the photographs above. I think it was member Flanderain who convinced me to pick up a half dozen bandannas to wear knotted about the neck. Just two were ever worn and at this point all seem to have been abandoned and lost somewhere in the hoard. The sweaters are nice, but I must say again tying one about your neck is an abomination in the eyes of the sartorial gods.The corded D-ring belt found in the final photograph is a must have and the Espadrilles found in the first and third photographs are, from a comfort perspective, very desirable additions to a gentleman's summer footwear collection. If they were good enough for the late, great John Wayne, they are certainly good enough for me! LOL. Nuff said.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> Nice blending of some elements of Trad with Euro. I particularly like espadrilles, although those are a bit garish. I prefer plain black or navy. Horizontally striped shirt, neckerchief tied neatly, and espadrilles is a combination that conjures up Cary Grant in To Catch a Thief, a casual look as perfect as the famous suit in North by Northwest. Ralph must like the classic movies!


I'm with you, I enjoy espadrilles, but simple plain ones.

I love Cary Grant's outfit in "To Catch a Thief," but also believe it works because of the person, time and place: Cary Grant, in the 1950s, on the French Rivera.











eagle2250 said:


> There are nice sartorial beginnings to be found in each of the photographs above. I think it was member Flanderain who convinced me to pick up a half dozen bandannas to wear knotted about the neck. Just two were ever worn and at this point all seem to have been abandoned and lost somewhere in the hoard. The sweaters are nice, but I must say again tying one about your neck is an abomination in the eyes of the sartorial gods.The corded D-ring belt found in the final photograph is a must have and the Espadrilles found in the first and third photographs are, from a comfort perspective, very desirable additions to a gentleman's summer footwear collection. If they were good enough for the late, great John Wayne, they are certainly good enough for me! LOL. Nuff said.


As noted, I, too, am a big fan of espadrilles in the summer.

I don't think I'd wear it, although maybe if I could see the full outfit, but I very much like what I see of the outfit in the last pic: the colors, styles and textures all harmonize very nicely.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> There are nice sartorial beginnings to be found in each of the photographs above. I think it was member Flanderain who convinced me to pick up a half dozen bandannas to wear knotted about the neck. Just two were ever worn and at this point all seem to have been abandoned and lost somewhere in the hoard. The sweaters are nice, but I must say again tying one about your neck is an abomination in the eyes of the sartorial gods.The corded D-ring belt found in the final photograph is a must have and the Espadrilles found in the first and third photographs are, from a comfort perspective, very desirable additions to a gentleman's summer footwear collection. If they were good enough for the late, great John Wayne, they are certainly good enough for me! LOL. Nuff said.


LOL, John Wayne in espadrilles? That reminded me of a line from Anthony Lane's review of the film version of _The Bridges of Madison County_, about Clint Eastwood's sandals: "Clint Eastwood wearing Birkenstocks is like the Dalai Lama packing a .45 magnum."


----------



## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> LOL, John Wayne in espadrilles? That reminded me of a line from Anthony Lane's review of the film version of _The Bridges of Madison County_, about Clint Eastwood's sandals: "Clint Eastwood wearing Birkenstocks is like the Dalai Lama packing a .45 magnum."


Clint Eastwood, in the movie Dirty Harry carried a Smith & Wesson Model 29 in a .44 Magnum caliber. If you've seen the movie, you might recall Dirty Harry stating, "You are probably wondering, did he fire six shots or only five? Remember, this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world. One shot would probably take your whole damn head off. Well punk...are you feeling lucky; go ahead make my day!". I hoped I would be able to use that line one day, but alas, only carried a Sig pistol chambered in .40 caliber LOL.


----------



## drpeter

I recollect that scene, but the one thing I really remember from that movie is the grey herringbone tweed jacket Eastwood is wearing, LOL. It's a three button model with slightly wider lapels. Rather nice.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> I recollect that scene, but the one thing I really remember from that movie is the grey herringbone tweed jacket Eastwood is wearing, LOL. It's a three button model with slightly wider lapels. Rather nice.
> 
> View attachment 57058


Like you, I'll spot these clothing items in a movie, but then I'll get so lost in examining them - does it have a center hook vent, 3/2, lapped seams - that I'll lose the thread of the movie.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57070


I rather like the knit, collared polo shirt; the snow white trousers are Ok, and even the seat cover tied around the model's waist is marginally acceptable, but those flip-flops have got to go. Get a pair of Birkenstocks!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> I rather like the knit, collared polo shirt; the snow white trousers are Ok, and even the seat cover tied around the model's waist is marginally acceptable, but those flip-flops have got to go. Get a pair of Birkenstocks!


That one who lives in Florida is opposed to flip-flops demonstrates exceptionally strong sartorial principles. I could not face Texas summers without my Smathers and Branson flip-flops with needle pointed Old Glory. 😜


----------



## Peak and Pine

When I was a little boy the folks would pack my brother and me in the car and we'd take long drives to far away places, like St Augustine in Florida, bumping along in the back seat of a cream and gray '55 Pontiac all the way from Maine. At each stop my mother would give me $.50 and I would purchase a small felt pennant of the town or the beach or the cabins and later string them up in my room. I have not a single one left, even the memory had disappeared, until I came across what's below, Ralph Lauren from the spring/summer '21 collection...


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> When I was a little boy the folks would pack my brother and me in the car and we'd take long drives to far away places, like St Augustine in Florida, bumping along in the back seat of a cream and gray '55 Pontiac all the way from Maine. My favorite was closer, the White Mountains in New Hampshire. At each stop my brother would get a decal of the attraction, soak it in warm water and slide it off onto the back-seat side windows, allowed to stay there for just a month because, my father would say, "We're not Oakies", however doubtless it seemed that dust encrusted '20s Fords had any window glass left on which to stick them.
> 
> Me, at each stop my mother would give me $.50 and I would purchase a small felt pennant of the town or the beach or the cabins and later string them up in my room. I have not a single one left, even the memory had disappeared, until I came across what's below, Ralph Lauren from the spring/summer '21 collection...
> 
> View attachment 57079


What a great hunting jacket that would make, after we took off those offending pennants and replaced them with memorabilia from places that we had previously hunted. Thanks for sharing that PRL jacket with us, my friend.


----------



## Tweedlover

Peak and Pine said:


> When I was a little boy the folks would pack my brother and me in the car and we'd take long drives to far away places, like St Augustine in Florida, bumping along in the back seat of a cream and gray '55 Pontiac all the way from Maine. At each stop my mother would give me $.50 and I would purchase a small felt pennant of the town or the beach or the cabins and later string them up in my room. I have not a single one left, even the memory had disappeared, until I came across what's below, Ralph Lauren from the spring/summer '21 collection...
> 
> View attachment 57079


God no. But then _don't like camo to start with._


----------



## Oldsarge

Camo has been my native habitat for long periods of time. Still is, now and again.


----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph email this week:


----------



## Fading Fast

Once again, the bear on the sweater is better dressed than the model wearing the bear sweater.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57176
> 
> Once again, the bear on the sweater is better dressed than the model wearing the bear sweater.


If he is in school, what school has a dress code that allows him to wear those jeans. Also, what school has such respectful students that his classmates would not mock him mercilessly for that sweater?


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 57179


They look almost as good as the car against which they are leaning.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> If he is in school, what school has a dress code that allows him to wear those jeans. Also, what school has such respectful students that his classmates would not mock him mercilessly for that sweater?


I'm at a complete loss for understanding who is the market for these sweaters. This one in particular, with all its flourishes, seems so ridiculously over the top that it's hard to understand. But as we talk about all the time, they aren't cheap, yet, if you go into the flagship store, they'll have at least one stack of them.


----------



## drpeter

There's a tradition in the Zen world where the master often pokes sarcastic fun at the student, in order to shock him into awareness of the nature of reality. Rather like a nastier version of the Zen _koan_. Perhaps either the advertisers, or Ralph (or both) are trying to do just that to the people who look at these adverts. Maybe the viewer will achieve transcendental wisdom and knowledge through the impact of ridiculous sweaters and tattered jeans on their senses. Who knows?


----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 57179


Jeez Louise, my white1964 Chevrolet 4-Dood Biscayne I drove my last two years in high school and through the first three years at Penn State, really pales in comparison to the ride those gentleman are lounging upon. In fact the cars that presently sit parked in our garage don't fare much better. I better pet out a BOLO for the approach of the "green-eyed monster!" LOL.


----------



## Dr.Watson

Fading Fast said:


> I'm at a complete loss for understanding who is the market for these sweaters. This one in particular, with all its flourishes, seems so ridiculously over the top that it's hard to understand. But as we talk about all the time, they aren't cheap, yet, if you go into the flagship store, they'll have at least one stack of them.


I think the streetwear crowd really likes them. Same with the "big pony" stuff. My closest Ralph Lauren outlet seems to cater to the streetwear market exclusively. It seems to be a pretty big market...maybe bigger than Ralph Lauren's traditional stuff.


----------



## Fading Fast

Dr.Watson said:


> I think the streetwear crowd really likes them. Same with the "big pony" stuff. My closest Ralph Lauren outlet seems to cater to the streetwear market exclusively. It seems to be a pretty big market...maybe bigger than Ralph Lauren's traditional stuff.
> View attachment 57183
> 
> 
> View attachment 57182


I'm sure you're right as they are making these clothes for someone.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> Jeez Louise, my white1964 Chevrolet 4-Dood Biscayne I drove my last two years in high school and through the first three years at Penn State, really pales in comparison to the ride those gentleman are lounging upon. In fact the cars that presently sit parked in our garage don't fare much better. I better pet out a BOLO for the approach of the "green-eyed monster!" LOL.


You had a car in high school?! And when you were a freshman in college!? Too cool!


----------



## Fading Fast

From a recent Ralph email:


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Prince Philip rocked the double breasted blazer, but every time I see a young guy in one I think of Danny Noonan.


----------



## Old Road Dog

_Dr. Watson_ (above) makes a good point about the streetwear appeal of much of Ralph's sportswear line.
If history is a precursor of tomorrow, as it has been with Tommy Hilfiger and Timberland, the end is nigh for Ralph Lauren as a premium brand. Kanye in your stuff is not an endorsement to be sought.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57201


I rather like the jacket and vest, but the vest seems to be cut a bit too short. Just saying....


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I rather like the jacket and vest, but the vest seems to be cut a bit too short. Just saying....


Unfortunately, that seems to happen a lot today with the prevailing "skinny/shorter" ethos of tailoring. I think the shirt and tie work well (the shirt in particular) with the outfit, but I'm just not a fan of the matching vest and jacket with contrasting pants look. I have a feeling if I saw a full shot of this outfit, it would feel awkward and "top heavy."


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> Unfortunately, that seems to happen a lot today with the prevailing "skinny/shorter" ethos of tailoring. I think the shirt and tie work well (the shirt in particular) with the outfit, but I'm just not a fan of the matching vest and jacket with contrasting pants look. I have a feeling if I saw a full shot of this outfit, it would feel awkward and "top heavy."


I agree with both Fading Fast and Eagle on this one but overall find it one of the better put together outfits for a PRL shoot. It also is curious to me how often our comments are about fit. To me the defining characteristic of TNSIL clothing is comfort. The clothes are cut commodiously and made of comfortable fabrics. There is no pair of trousers more comfortably cut than truly traditional khakis and no shirt more comfortable than a billowy OCBD from Brooks Brothers of pre-1984, Mercer, or a few rare others. A well cut natural shoulder blazer or odd jacket with a 3/2 lapel and a single hook vent does not bind anywhere and brings warmth, comfort, and plenty of pockets in the winter and, in the summer, replaces warmth with fabrics like seersucker, Madras, and chambray. Even the necktie, scorned by so many, is actually comfortable with a four in hand knot on a properly sized shirt that is not professionally starched and laundered but ironed by the wearer. Nothing ever gaps or binds. The fabrics never make you feel you are wrapped in plastic. Even under layers they breathe. The shoes provide sturdiness and protection beneath the foot and comfort on the uppers.

These are the endearing qualities of TNSIL that keep me wearing it. The beauty of the materials, the history of the makers, and the instantly recognizable details that make it iconic with no need for logos are of course wonderful as well, but if it isn't truly comfortable, why would you wear it?

That jacket looks comfortable. That vest looks a tad uncomfortable, not excessively snug but a bit. A Trad would notice that.


----------



## drpeter

I think the origins and history of the Trad or Ivy style is part and parcel of the move away from the stiff, starched style of the late Edwardians. The Duke of Windsor played a strong part in this move toward more comfortable clothing, and if you look at his images (plentiful on the web) you will see that his suits, odd jackets, and flannels are not too different in cut and style and even fabric, from the Ivy Look. The twentieth century saw this general move toward less rigid styles, with softer materials and looser clothing, relaxed cuts -- comfort, in short, as TKI67 points out so eloquently. This comfort is also the reason why Ivy style originated in the colleges and universities of the US. Young men and women would want comfortable clothing to complement a vigorous lifestyle, and this desire informed the selection of material, cut and style in a natural way.

But now, we have carried it all to an unfortunate extreme, with the sweatsuit, hoodies and jeans, etc., taking the lead. Grunge has become the order of the day, at least to the young. I taught for thirty years in a college environment filled with blue denim -- and not just the students, but even a good proportion of the faculty!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> I think the origins and history of the Trad or Ivy style is part and parcel of the move away from the stiff, starched style of the late Edwardians. The Duke of Windsor played a strong part in this move toward more comfortable clothing, and if you look at his images (plentiful on the web) you will see that his suits, odd jackets, and flannels are not too different in cut and style and even fabric, from the Ivy Look. The twentieth century saw this general move toward less rigid styles, with softer materials and looser clothing, relaxed cuts -- comfort, in short, a TKI67 points out so eloquently. This comfort is also the reason why Ivy style originated in the colleges and universities of the US. Young men and women would want comfortable clothing to complement a vigorous lifestyle, and this desire informed the selection of material, cut and style in a natural way.
> 
> But now, we have carried it all to an unfortunate extreme, with the sweatsuit, hoodies and jeans, etc., taking the lead. Grunge has become the order of the day, at least to the young. I taught for thirty years in a college environment filled with blue denim -- and not just the students, but even a good proportion of the faculty!


And the irony is that khakis are far more comfortable than jeans, which typically ride far below the waist and are of a very heavy fabric that sags rather than draping. Sweats can be cozy but only if it is cool, and most sweatpants these days ride low like jeans. However, if we had had them in the mid 1960s, I believe hoodies would have been very popular.


----------



## eagle2250

TKI67 said:


> And the irony is that khakis are far more comfortable than jeans, which typically ride far below the waist and are of a very heavy fabric that sags rather than draping. Sweats can be cozy but only if it is cool, and most sweatpants these days ride low like jeans. However, if we had had them in the mid 1960s, I believe hoodies would have been very popular.


Bill's Khaki's offer a Stretch Twill 5-Pocket design that is a hybrid design of classic chinos and bluejeans...perhaps the perfect pair of Trousers? A little lighter, a little dressier and a whole lot lighter in weight. The only downside is they do ride a bit low on the hip and do not provide a good look for we aging gentleman, sporting more matuer figures! LOL.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> Bill's Khaki's offer a Stretch Twill 5-Pocket design that is a hybrid design of classic chinos and bluejeans...perhaps the perfect pair of Trousers? A little lighter, a little dressier and a whole lot lighter in weight. The only downside is they do ride a bit low on the hip and do not provide a good look for we aging gentleman, sporting more matuer figures! LOL.


While I do have two pairs of five pocket non-jeans, I find that the way nice khakis are cut is simply more comfortable. If I am slopping around and do not care how I look a pair of old, unironed O'Connell's khakis with their high water 1 3/4" cuff wins over Levis or any five pocket.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> Bill's Khaki's offer a Stretch Twill 5-Pocket design that is a hybrid design of classic chinos and bluejeans...perhaps the perfect pair of Trousers? A little lighter, a little dressier and a whole lot lighter in weight. The only downside is they do ride a bit low on the hip and do not provide a good look for we aging gentleman, sporting more matuer figures! LOL.


You know, Eagle, you are absolutely right! I had a few pairs od Lands' End khakis in the nineties that were exactly like this. They were effectively jeans made of khaki drill, in various tones of beige and khaki. They were terrific, tough pants that wore well, and the ones I wore were much less low-waisted than your standard pair of Levis.

I'm also reminded of white jeans, with white duck or canvas material much thicker than khaki drill. They are like blue jeans, though, in terms of comfort.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Bill's Khaki's offer a Stretch Twill 5-Pocket design that is a hybrid design of classic chinos and bluejeans...perhaps the perfect pair of Trousers? A little lighter, a little dressier and a whole lot lighter in weight. The only downside is they do ride a bit low on the hip and do not provide a good look for we aging gentleman, sporting more matuer figures! LOL.





drpeter said:


> You know, Eagle, you are absolutely right! I had a few pairs od Lands' End khakis in the nineties that were exactly like this. They were effectively jeans made of khaki drill, in various tones of beige and khaki. They were terrific, tough pants that wore well, and the ones I wore were much less low-waisted than your standard pair of Levis.
> 
> I'm also reminded of white jeans, with white duck or canvas material much thicker than khaki drill. They are like blue jeans, though, in terms of comfort.


I feel like one of my favorite Ivy-era pants, wheat jeans, belongs in this conversation somehow. I've loved them for years as they do kind of bridge the gap between chinos and jeans and they have an Ivy tie in. I believe they were more popular on the west coast, but that's about that extent of my knowledge.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> You know, Eagle, you are absolutely right! I had a few pairs od Lands' End khakis in the nineties that were exactly like this. They were effectively jeans made of khaki drill, in various tones of beige and khaki. They were terrific, tough pants that wore well, and the ones I wore were much less low-waisted than your standard pair of Levis.
> 
> I'm also reminded of white jeans, with white duck or canvas material much thicker than khaki drill. They are like blue jeans, though, in terms of comfort.


I miss white Levis. As spring of 1966 rolled around a lot of guys tried to see if they could pass for ducks and get around the dress code. One of the teachers figured that one out quickly.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Peak and Pine

Purple label. Cotton safari type thing...










Fifteen hundred balloons. The neckerchief is good. No price given, probably five hundred.


----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> Purple label. Cotton safari type thing...
> 
> View attachment 57210
> 
> 
> Fifteen hundred balloons. The neckerchief is good. No price given, probably five hundred.


$1500! It is a good looking jacket, but that's a whole lot of money for a cotton safari jacket...way too rich for my tight fisted perspectives on life. LOL.


----------



## Tweedlover

eagle2250 said:


> $1500! It is a good looking jacket, but that's a whole lot of money for a cotton safari jacket...way too rich for my tight fisted perspectives on life. LOL.


Yeah, that's the thing about RL pricing. They often come out with great looking clothes but at very high prices beyond the means of most folks.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Or maybe get this one instead. Linen. $228 from Spier & Mackay...


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Peak and Pine said:


> Or maybe get this one instead. Linen. $228 from Spier & Mackay...
> 
> View attachment 57216


I could never pull off a safari jacket, but there are some nice Orvis Zambezi safari jackets on the "Bay" for around $40. It appears Orvis finally purged their lineup of several long running items including the Zambezi line, their white bucks, and their poplins in bright red or creamy yellow.


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## challer

Fading Fast said:


> I feel like one of my favorite Ivy-era pants, wheat jeans, belongs in this conversation somehow. I've loved them for years as they do kind of bridge the gap between chinos and jeans and they have an Ivy tie in. I believe they were more popular on the west coast, but that's about that extent of my knowledge.


I would add the current Peter Millar Crown five pockets with a bit of stretch are pretty awesome. Words I never thought I'd say. Picked up some nantucket reds of this design at 1/2 off during a sale and liked them so much, bought more at full price.


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57258


I wouldn't combine a denim trucker jacket with the topcoat.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Tweedlover said:


> I wouldn't combine a denim trucker jacket with the topcoat.


Nor should that guy. It denigrates the coat while the coat denigrates the denim.


----------



## Fading Fast

Tweedlover said:


> I wouldn't combine a denim trucker jacket with the topcoat.


I wouldn't either - looks really off to me. I like jeans (pants) with a camel hair coat, but the jean jacket, IMO, doesn't work at all.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Not a follower of fleece except when sherpa style, in a collar or lining. But here's something different, sherpa as the whole coat...










The color and the dog help, but, er, this is *not* Ralph Lauren tho maybe should be.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Peak and Pine

Call me crazy, but I can see myself in that. Just before I'm knocked silly by (the ghost of) my mother.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57337


Alas, I an saddened by the obvious waste of such a nice coat. Now get rid of the sweater tied around his waist, tuck in his shirt and turn down it's collar, roll the coat sleeves back the way they should be and take his damn hands out of his pocket. Then we would be looking at a nic picture of a handsome young gentleman.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> Alas, I an saddened by the obvious waste of such a nice coat. Now get rid of the sweater tied around his waist, tuck in his shirt and turn down it's collar, roll the coat sleeves back the way they should be and take his damn hands out of his pocket. Then we would be looking at a nic picture of a handsome young gentleman.


O winged one, I have a new nickname for you, Mr. Sprezzatura!


----------



## Tweedlover

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 57339
> 
> 
> Call me crazy, but I can see myself in that. Just before I'm knocked silly by (the ghost of) my mother.


What in the ever living hell?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Tweedlover said:


> What in the ever living hell?


So you want one too?


----------



## Fading Fast

From a recent Ralph email. I believe the first two pics are wider angle shots of outfits we saw recently in close up.


----------



## eagle2250

.....and my vote still goes for the young man in the top picture. LOL.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> .....and my vote still goes for the young man in the top picture. LOL.


Mine goes to the swimming trunks in the third frame.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> .....and my vote still goes for the young man in the top picture. LOL.


I agree, I like that outfit. I could nitpick, but especially for the setting, it's darn good.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> I agree, I like that outfit. I could nitpick, but especially for the setting, it's darn good.


It isn't an outfit I'd put together, but for what it is, I would be hard pressed to change anything. Mr. Sprezzatura would, of course, admonish the young man to take his hands out of his pockets and unroll his cuffs. What other nits would you pick with the gent in the top frame? Of course the chap in the middle frame badly needs a long trench coat buttoned to the neck and some suitable footwear. Yikes!


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> It isn't an outfit I'd put together, but for what it is, I would be hard pressed to change anything. Mr. Sprezzatura would, of course, admonish the young man to take his hands out of his pockets and unroll his cuffs. What other nits would you pick with the gent in the top frame? Of course the chap in the middle frame badly needs a long trench coat buttoned to the neck and some suitable footwear. Yikes!


The rolled up cuffs don't bother me as, in theory, they could be the result of him earlier in the day having taken off his espadrilles to walk along the water's edge. But to your question, I've never been a fan of the crew-neck collar - T-shirt or sweater - by itself with a sport coat. Also, I'm not a fan of the contrasting green collar band on the shirt; IMO, it's an unnecessary add.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57359


I like the whimsical effect of the overhead light centered on the cap. These are very nice togs despite the random Ps which, judging by the color schemes on the hat and belt, stand for neither Penn nor Princeton, presumably Polo. As Yogi would have said, "Smarter than the average bear."


----------



## eagle2250

The overcoat in the shot is memorably handsome!


----------



## Oldsarge

TKI67 said:


> I like the whimsical effect of the overhead light centered on the cap. These are very nice togs despite the random Ps which, judging by the color schemes on the hat and belt, stand for neither Penn nor Princeton, presumably Polo. As Yogi would have said, "Smarter than the average bear."


Certainly more stylish.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57388


Love the jacket, assuming it is made of brushed suede. The shirt, tie and sweater are also pretty nice, but those jeans should be headed to the trash bun!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Love the jacket, assuming it is made of brushed suede. The shirt, tie and sweater are also pretty nice, but those jeans should be headed to the trash bun!


I had a similar thought that he should have put on a pair of grey wool dress trousers and he'd have knocked the ball out of the park. The shirt and tie, in particular, do not work with jeans IMO.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> Love the jacket, assuming it is made of brushed suede. The shirt, tie and sweater are also pretty nice, but those jeans should be headed to the trash bun!


Based on purely visual images, I find it hard to distinguish between regular (leather) suede and fabrics like Ultrasuede (artificial) or Moleskin (cotton). Even with actual contact and handling, it can be deceptive! I have two jackets now, both of which look and feel very much like suede, but are made of Ultrasuede -- so labelled in one case, and suspected in the other, LOL. They are great jackets, and as has been pointed out in these forums, Ultrasuede is actually better at resisting stains, and also in draping well, compared to its leather counterpart.


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57388


Have long thought that RL does suede jackets really well.


----------



## Oldsarge

When a belt has a buckle, tying it is absurd.


----------



## Old Road Dog

Back in my days selling Burberry's, no one buckled the belt of the coats, but rather tied a simple knot and gave it a tug around the waist. However, if the coat was displayed on a mannequin, the belt had a good chance of being buckled.


----------



## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> Based on purely visual images, I find it hard to distinguish between regular (leather) suede and fabrics like Ultrasuede (artificial) or Moleskin (cotton). Even with actual contact and handling, it can be deceptive! I have two jackets now, both of which look and feel very much like suede, but are made of Ultrasuede -- so labelled in one case, and suspected in the other, LOL. They are great jackets, and as has been pointed out in these forums, Ultrasuede is actually better at resisting stains, and also in draping well, compared to its leather counterpart.


If it looks like suede and feels like suede and fits well, you have a winner. Enjoy those coats, but perhaps do that next Fall. Summer is bearing down on us and would put a damper on sporting the suede.


----------



## Old Road Dog

I don't think PRL couture is in the Ultrasuede business. I would venture that the coat pictured is probably in the $1800-2500 range. Those raggedy jeans are probably $250.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57443


I find myself somewhat intrigued by the Serape jacket on the dress form stationed on the table, behind the two more obvious characters in the front row. The serape jacket appears to be only lightly constructed and unlined an features a rather fetching fabric pattern.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57453


Today's Ralph Ad really sent me on an unplanned trip down memory lane. I'm not a fan of big logos and being used as a human billboard for the various feather merchants pandering to our vanities, but contrary to that I humbly admit to an arguably sychophantic relationship with certain "labeled" articles of clothing advertising current or former associations I might have enjoyed at various points in my life. Ralph's Letterman's sweater got me to thinking of an old high school Letterman's jacket, packed away somewhere in this hoard. It was once worn with great pride, but it would look decidedly foolish worn by a guy in his 70's...and that's assuming I could even get into it and that is one big assumption.

I never was a good enough athlete to compete in interscholastic sports at a school the size of Penn State, but did participate in intramural sports. So there never was a collegiate Letterman's Jacket in my future, but the USAF eventually issued me a flight jacket and that scratched that itch throughout a good portion of my adult life. I did get some wear out of it after hanging up the blue suit for the last time, but at this point in my life, it would be a stretch (in more ways than one) to claim that I could still wear it. However, I do occasionally wear various articles of knit wear with embroidered advertisement that thew wearer is USAF Retired.

Well enough nostalgia for one post. In closing I will simply add, Fading Fast, my friend, I do enjoy these Ralph ads! Thank you.


----------



## Tweedlover

Old Road Dog said:


> I don't think PRL couture is in the Ultrasuede business. I would venture that the coat pictured is probably in the $1800-2500 range. Those raggedy jeans are probably $250.


I was perusing RL's site a few days ago and was floored when I saw some raggedy purple label jeans being offered for $998.


----------



## Fading Fast

Tweedlover said:


> I was perusing RL's site a few days ago and was floored when I saw some raggedy purple label jeans being offered for $998.


Well, at least they don't cost a grand.


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> Well, at least they don't cost a grand.


I own 3 pairs of jeans, all WalMart brand. Bought 2 never worn at a Goodwill for $4 a piece and splurged on 1 at Walmart last fall for $12.  Jeans are 1 of those clothing items that I cannot discern the differences between "high end" and "low rent" anyway. So, why pay $900 more for a pair?


----------



## drpeter

Precisely. There are some items that I too could not care less about, as long as they wear reasonably well, and last for a while. Most of the trousers and sports jackets, high end and low, that I pick up are from thrift shops. Often new with tags, or lightly worn, and in old-fashioned styles and cuts that I love.

I really would not buy new items from a shop unless it were a place with a specific style I like, say O'Connell's.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Well, at least they don't cost a grand.


Out of the total price for those jeans, $988 is for the great cachet that is bestowed by the House of Lauren on the wearer. Purple Label? Can you imagine the costs associated with the next line waiting in the wings -- the Ermine Label?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> Out of the total price for those jeans, $988 is for the great cachet that is bestowed by the House of Lauren on the wearer. Purple Label? Can you imagine the costs associated with the next line waiting in the wings -- the Ermine Label?


I think I may Ralph on my 501s.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

TKI67 said:


> I think I may Ralph on my 501s.


Levis have been about as far up as I'm willing to go on the blue jeans food chain. Levi 501's used to be my chosen poison, but then I discovered Levis 541 Athletic Fit design and I've never looked back. LOL.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> Levis have been about as far up as I'm willing to go on the blue jeans food chain. Levi 501's used to be my chosen poison, but then I discovered Levis 541 Athletic Fit design and I've never looked back. LOL.


If I ever need new Levis I'll remember that, as 501s are decidedly baggy. However, they will not be wearing out soon as I invariably opt for khakis on those rare long pants days. They are simply far more comfortable than jeans. We are now in shorts season, running from March well into November.


----------



## Fading Fast

I've never paid anywhere close to $100 for a pair of jeans or, to the best of my memory over $50. In my closet now are a few pairs of Levis and a few pairs of J.Crew jeans all bought on some sale (that those two companies regularly have) for ~$20-$40. 

But like TK167, I almost always opt for khakis over jeans as I just find them more comfortable, so my jeans sit all but unworn. I never got into the "designer" jean craze years ago or the "selvedge" craze of recent years. To each his own.

Being tall, thin and small boned, I do like the slimmer fits (not skinny or tight) as regular-cut jeans are very baggy on me. Or, as my girlfriend says, "slim fit jeans look on you like regular jeans look on 'normal' people."


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> I've never paid anywhere close to $100 for a pair of jeans or, to the best of my memory over $50. In my closet now are a few pairs of Levis and a few pairs of J.Crew jeans all bought on some sale (that those two companies regularly have) for ~$20-$40.
> 
> But like TK167, I almost always opt for khakis over jeans as I just find them more comfortable, so my jeans sit all but unworn. I never got into the "designer" jean craze years ago or the "selvedge" craze of recent years. To each his own.
> 
> Being tall, thin and small boned, I do like the slimmer fits (not skinny or tight) as regular-cut jeans are very baggy on me. Or, as my girlfriend says, "slim fit jeans look on you like regular jeans look on 'normal' people."


I enthusiastically agree with you and TKI67 regarding a preference for Khakis over blue jeans, but I gotta tell you Mrs Eagle has a decided preference for seeing me in my Levis. The khakis are surely more comfortable to wear. However, she claims the jeans do a better job of showcasing my butt cheeks and long legs, so less comfort is a small price to pay for stirring up the ladies prurient interests! LOL.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> I've never paid anywhere close to $100 for a pair of jeans or, to the best of my memory over $50. In my closet now are a few pairs of Levis and a few pairs of J.Crew jeans all bought on some sale (that those two companies regularly have) for ~$20-$40.
> 
> But like TK167, I almost always opt for khakis over jeans as I just find them more comfortable, so my jeans sit all but unworn. I never got into the "designer" jean craze years ago or the "selvedge" craze of recent years. To each his own.
> 
> Being tall, thin and small boned, I do like the slimmer fits (not skinny or tight) as regular-cut jeans are very baggy on me. Or, as my girlfriend says, "slim fit jeans look on you like regular jeans look on 'normal' people."


I cannot prove it, but I believe that over the years Levi Strauss has radically changed the cut of their 501s. When I was in school I was a hair under 6' and weighed about 135. I lived in 501s and they were generally snug but not tight, even over the thighs. Now they practically billow on the thighs. In the late sixties they were the jeans of choice for hippies, and now they are dad jeans.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> I cannot prove it, but I believe that over the years Levi Strauss has radically changed the cut of their 501s. When I was in school I was a hair under 6' and weighed about 135. I lived in 501s and they were generally snug but not tight, even over the thighs. Now they practically billow on the thighs. In the late sixties they were the jeans of choice for hippies, and now they are dad jeans.


I have similar recollections. In college, in the early '80s, I owned one pair of jeans (I had very few clothes back then). They were 501s and fit on the snug side especially out of the dryer. (I was six-one, 150lbs and, as always, small boned). Now, 501s fit much looser on my frame and I weigh the exact same and my build hasn't changed (other than I've lost a half inch in height ). It's why I stopped buying 501 years ago and moved to one of the slimmer fit Levi cuts.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57502


Kind of a generic look. I see it all the time on high school kids.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57502





TKI67 said:


> Kind of a generic look. I see it all the time on high school kids.


Not a great look, but as has been observed, not a bad look at all. The first thing I noticed was that the young man had the good sense not to pop his shirt collar and he has his ball Cap pointed in the right direction, with the bill pointed forward. However his sense of sartorial direction falters as he puts all those strings, cords and other garbage around his left wrist and ties a perfectly fine Chambray shirt about his waist. All in all, not a bad effort!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57520


Other than how it's being worn that is a pretty nice rig for a Ralph ad. The Ralph Letterman's jacket has a nice nostalgic appeal to it; the visual appeal of the Paddington Bear embroidered jumper seems to be growing on me, though I could see me ever wearing one; a crisp white sport shirt is always appropriate ; and those jeans look like a nice new pair of blue jeans ought to look. I don't recall ever owning a pair of Ralph jeans, but I would wear those in a New York minute! Well done, Ralph.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Other than how it's being worn that is a pretty nice rig for a Ralph ad. The Ralph Letterman's jacket has a nice nostalgic appeal to it; the visual appeal of the Paddington Bear embroidered jumper seems to be growing on me, though I could see me ever wearing one; a crisp white sport shirt is always appropriate ; and those jeans look like a nice new pair of blue jeans ought to look. I don't recall ever owning a pair of Ralph jeans, but I would wear those in a New York minute! Well done, Ralph.


I'm not wearing one, but agree, we've looked at these crazy bear sweaters so often, they seem less insane to me than they used to. I like the jacket as well, but would only wear it if they took the writing on the chest off. Once again though, the bear on the sweater is dressed nicer than the guy wearing the sweater.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

If Ralph is going to charge Ralph prices for those jeans, they'll need some holes. They must have been in a hurry setting up for this shoot. It needs a shirt tied around the waist and an intermediate layer, maybe a tweed vest, patchwork of course. And although you can see his belt, he needs to yank it off the gig line or someone will think he is squared away.


----------



## eagle2250

TKI67 said:


> If Ralph is going to charge Ralph prices for those jeans, they'll need some holes. They must have been in a hurry setting up for this shoot. It needs a shirt tied around the waist and an intermediate layer, maybe a tweed vest, patchwork of course. And although you can see his belt, he needs to yank it off the gig line or someone will think he is squared away.


Tye a shirt around his waist? Why that's just nonsense. The only reason a guy does that is to provide a privacy curtain for their ass. If they are that modest, they should get rid of the shirt and just very carefully walk backwards, away from unwanted onlookers! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57553


When viewed individually, most of the garments pictured above are very solid building blocks for building a great rig...the overcoat is fantastic , the wine turtleneck brings with it a touch of elegance; the Rugby Shirt is a classic design and those sneakers are timeless and Oh-so-kind to one's feet. The BDU trousers are.....well the jury may still be out on that one. Admittedly, I wore BDU's for a good number of years, but the truth be known, the USAF made me do it. However, after hanging up my Superman suit for the last time, I did continue to wear my old "cammies" while doing yard work around the nest or when I just needed to be invisible and hide from Mrs Eagle for a few moments! LOL. Unfortunately, when combined to make the rig pictured above, all those magnificent individual garments add up to one hot mess! Gotta do a much better job of matching garments. Nuff said..


----------



## drpeter

I've wondered about the US Air Force providing camo fatigues to its members. Does the US Navy do this too? I associate camo uniforms with the armies and marines of the world, since they have the need for such camouflage -- they operate on land, especially in combat. But does a sailor or airman need such protection, except perhaps on the few occasions where they find themselves operating on land against enemy forces?

It seems to me that on an airfield, the personnel working close to planes need to be visible and sure enough I have seen images of airmen wearing bright orange vests and camos (like the old blue and grey USAF "tiger stripes") so they are visible! Besides, the new camo actually _contrasts_ with the colors seen on an airfield at an Air Force base, far more than the old tiger stripes. It really does not camouflage the person.

Maybe it's to boost morale and feelings of camaraderie between the land, sea and air forces. Or perhaps it is because the conventional battlefield may not apply that much in a changing world where terrorist attacks on the homeland might involve Air Force and Navy personnel in joint actions. What do you think?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> I've wondered about the US Air Force providing camo fatigues to its members. Does the US Navy do this too? I associate camo uniforms with the armies and marines of the world, since they have the need for such camouflage -- they operate on land, especially in combat. But does a sailor or airman need such protection, except perhaps on the few occasions where they find themselves operating on land against enemy forces?
> 
> It seems to me that on an airfield, the personnel working close to planes need to be visible and sure enough I have seen images of airmen wearing bright orange vests and camos (like the old blue and grey USAF "tiger stripes") so they are visible! Besides, the new camo actually _contrasts_ with the colors seen on an airfield at an Air Force base, far more than the old tiger stripes. It really does not camouflage the person.
> 
> Maybe it's to boost morale and feelings of camaraderie between the land, sea and air forces. Or perhaps it is because the conventional battlefield may not apply that much in a changing world where terrorist attacks on the homeland might involved Air Force and Navy personnel in joint actions. What do you think?


It bothers me to see it used by the USN, but then I never got over the change from polishing leather to the use of Corfam. I always liked blues and whites and tolerated khakis.


----------



## drpeter

Corfam -- really? I had no idea! Corfam does not breathe or stretch, unlike real leather.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> Corfam -- really? I had no idea! Corfam does not breathe or stretch, unlike real leather.


. I know. Nasty stuff. I do not know what they are using today. Hopefully they have brought back leather, but I fear not.


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57553


To me camo pants with striped, (particularly wide stripes), shirt is a pattern clash.


----------



## Fading Fast

Tweedlover said:


> To me camo pants with striped, (particularly wide stripes), shirt is a pattern clash.


Agreed. I could find my way to liking that outfit if the pants were swapped out for not-ripped jeans or chinos.


----------



## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> I've wondered about the US Air Force providing camo fatigues to its members. Does the US Navy do this too? I associate camo uniforms with the armies and marines of the world, since they have the need for such camouflage -- they operate on land, especially in combat. But does a sailor or airman need such protection, except perhaps on the few occasions where they find themselves operating on land against enemy forces?
> 
> It seems to me that on an airfield, the personnel working close to planes need to be visible and sure enough I have seen images of airmen wearing bright orange vests and camos (like the old blue and grey USAF "tiger stripes") so they are visible! Besides, the new camo actually _contrasts_ with the colors seen on an airfield at an Air Force base, far more than the old tiger stripes. It really does not camouflage the person.
> 
> Maybe it's to boost morale and feelings of camaraderie between the land, sea and air forces. Or perhaps it is because the conventional battlefield may not apply that much in a changing world where terrorist attacks on the homeland might involved Air Force and Navy personnel in joint actions. What do you think?


I think all five of the uniformed services issue(d) several versions of camo-fatigues. In my case the USAF issued me OD hued Nomex flight suits, OD fatigues, woodland camo and Desert Camo's and.....I think.... that's about it. Paraphrasing the great, but fictional, Forrest Gump, "the USAF might have issued Tiger Stripe fatigues , but I never saw none of those threads!" Back in the day the only ones I saw wearing tiger stripes were a few Army units in Southeast Asia. :icon_scratch:


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> Back in the day the only ones I saw wearing tiger stripes were a few Army units in Southeast Asia. :icon_scratch:


Or the tigers themselves, LOL. There _are_ a respectable number in Sumatra and environs, still. I hope they have not all been hunted down by the great predator, man.


----------



## Fading Fast

Cross post with the Tweed thread.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> Cross post with the Tweed thread.
> View attachment 57565


Better than average but some grating details like the unbuttoned shirt points, the rucked jacket collar, the jeans paired with the dressier than average tweed, the second unbuttoned button on the vest, and the horizontally striped tie paired with the vertically striped shirt. I never cared for horizontally striped ties anyway. So I guess it would not have mattered what shirt he had chosen, although with that tie I think an ecru or yellow OCBD would have looked better. It looks as if the navy coat might be a topcoat or a peacoat. The two outfits together would have harmonized better if it had been the famous PRL doeskin blazer with every perfect detail ((3/2, swelled seams, patch pockets, hook vent, gorgeous doeskin, and even attractive brass buttons).


----------



## eagle2250

TKI67 said:


> Better than average but some grating details like the unbuttoned shirt points, the rucked jacket collar, the jeans paired with the dressier than average tweed, the second unbuttoned button on the vest, and the horizontally striped tie paired with the vertically striped shirt. I never cared for horizontally striped ties anyway. So I guess it would not have mattered what shirt he had chosen, although with that tie I think an ecru or yellow OCBD would have looked better. It looks as if the navy coat might be a topcoat or a peacoat. The two outfits together would have harmonized better if it had been the famous PRL doeskin blazer with every perfect detail ((3/2, swelled seams, patch pockets, hook vent, gorgeous doeskin, and even attractive brass buttons).


How could I have missed that unbuttoned collar button? Thanks for pointing it out....I've put on a second pot of coffee to improve my observational skills this AM. :fool: LOL.


----------



## drpeter

Eagle, my friend, you do not need to resort to that classic wall-banging with your head. We don't want you to have concussion like all those football players! I speak as someone with a modest understanding of the frontal lobes, LOL.


----------



## drpeter

TKI67 said:


> Better than average but some grating details like the unbuttoned shirt points, the rucked jacket collar, the jeans paired with the dressier than average tweed, the second unbuttoned button on the vest, and the horizontally striped tie paired with the vertically striped shirt. I never cared for horizontally striped ties anyway. So I guess it would not have mattered what shirt he had chosen, although with that tie I think an ecru or yellow OCBD would have looked better. It looks as if the navy coat might be a topcoat or a peacoat. The two outfits together would have harmonized better if it had been the famous PRL doeskin blazer with every perfect detail ((3/2, swelled seams, patch pockets, hook vent, gorgeous doeskin, and even attractive brass buttons).


I agree with all of your observations. Some good items that could have been put together in a much better way, but got cluttered up with too much clashing material. Someone should teach the RL ad men that excess is not necessarily success. Understatement in dressing is a value that seems to have escaped these chaps entirely.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> How could I have missed that unbuttoned collar button? Thanks for pointing it out....I've put on a second pot of coffee to improve my observational skills this AM. :fool: LOL.


Enjoy your coffee for its own deliciousness and comforting goodness, not to worry about mannequins failing inspection!


----------



## Oldsarge

When I went into the Army, all our BDUs were OD green. Then they went to camo. So far, so good. But issuing black, blue and white camouflage to the Navy is just goofy. If a sailor falls overboard, shouldn't he be _easy _to find? Aircrew in camouflage makes sense because occasionally they get shot down. But on base? I think someone in the Pentagon has a testosterone problem.


----------



## eagle2250

Oldsarge said:


> When I went into the Army, all our BDUs were OD green. Then they went to camo. So far, so good. But issuing black, blue and white camouflage to the Navy is just goofy. If a sailor falls overboard, shouldn't he be _easy _to find? Aircrew in camouflage makes sense because occasionally they get shot down. But on base? I think someone in the Pentagon has a testosterone problem.


I agree with every word of your post and particularly the opinion as to the Testosterone problem at the Pentagon! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

From a recent Ralph email









On sale, I'd buy a polo shirt with a dog on it. Yes I would. The real problem would be if it was anything but a Springer Spaniel our dog would stop talking to me.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Lauren ad with dog...










Not a Lauren ad with dog...










Dog can't save the first one. Dog makes the other one.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Peak and Pine said:


> Lauren ad with dog...
> 
> View attachment 57615
> 
> 
> Not a Lauren ad with dog...
> 
> View attachment 57616
> 
> 
> Dog can't save the first one. Dog makes the second one.


Most situations are improved by adding a dog. Most sandwiches are improved by adding a fried egg.


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Fading Fast

Also from a recent Ralph email.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 57617


That is a terrific stripe. Astounding as this may be, I have never seen that stripe on a shirt!


----------



## Peak and Pine

TKI67 said:


> That is a terrific stripe. Astounding as this may be, I have never seen that stripe on a shirt!


Yeah, like it too.
I pick out stuff for this thread that yanks a very short see-myself-in-that chain, or that I can grind into the ground; piecemeal picks where, say a jacket is liked, but not the sweater, not for me, don't pull the chain part way.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57644


No humor intended here, but is my memory playing tricks on me or is the fabric pattern featured in the picture above referred to as a horse or bed blanket weave? I've got an old Woolrich blanket with a similar pattern in greens, browns and I think blacks. It is called a "Pennsylvania blanket, I think. I suppose I could have it sewn into a jacket, but I doubt that I will do that?


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> No humor intended here, but is my memory playing tricks on me or is the fabric pattern featured in the picture above referred to as a horse or bed blanket weave? I've got an old Woolrich blanket with a similar pattern in greens, browns and I think blacks. It is called a "Pennsylvania blanket, I think. I suppose I could have it sewn into a jacket, but I doubt that I will do that?


I don't know if that fabric pattern has a name or not. While it looks kinda okay on the super-cool model in that nice setting, I can't imagine that jacket working IRL too often. Now, as blanket, like yours, that I could easily see.


----------



## Old Road Dog

The cloth in that jackets looks to be madras, not wool. The outfit is spring/summer in "feel".


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Old Road Dog said:


> The cloth in that jackets looks to be madras, not wool. The outfit is spring/summer in "feel".


If it is madras, I want one! It would be the consummate GTH jacket.


----------



## drpeter

Nice. I have an odd shirt jacket with a Navajo blanket weave that looks very much like the jacket pictured above -- similar colours and lines, a bit more complex in terms of patterns.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> Nice. I have an odd shirt jacket with a Navajo blanket weave that looks very much like the jacket pictured above -- similar colours and lines, a bit more complex in terms of patterns.


This appears to be an "exploded" tartan.


----------



## Fading Fast

Turns out, it's a current offering (link below). I just looked it up:

*The RL67 Tartan Linen Jacket*

$1,398.00









566394.html


----------



## Oldsarge

The jacket and trousers aren't bad but everything else, and I mean everything, has to go!


----------



## drpeter

LOL. The model too, Sarge?


----------



## Oldsarge

drpeter said:


> LOL. The model too, Sarge?


Yes. His vapid facial expression is an offense to anyone passionate.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57680


Ralph takes a really great picture. Look at the facial expression. He clearly does much better in that regard than most of the models he hires for his ads.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Ralph takes a really great picture. Look at the facial expression. He clearly does much better in that regard than most of the models he hires for his ads.


Other than the long belt running free, I thought this was a good look for Ralph. The chunky turtleneck works well with the leather jacket and jeans and doesn't look costume-y on him like many of his efforts do.


----------



## FiscalDean

Fading Fast said:


> Other than the long belt running free, I thought this was a good look for Ralph. The chunky turtleneck works well with the leather jacket and jeans and doesn't look costume-y on him like many of his efforts do.


When SWMBO catches me with my belt looking like that she tells me I look like a dork!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57737


The embroidered bear is a cute/almost handsome Brand identification and I've always enjoyed a well made, 100% cotton all grey or navy sweatshirt and would even pay Ralphs prices for the right one. However, a real man just does not wear that sort of thing . Remove the embroidery and I'll take one of those in grey and one in navy! LOL.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> The embroidered bear is a cute/almost handsome Brand identification and I've always enjoyed a well made, 100% cotton all grey or navy sweatshirt and would even pay Ralphs prices for the right one. However, a real man just does not wear that sort of thing . Remove the embroidery and I'll take one of those in grey and one in navy! LOL.


Sitting here in my ancient heather grey Hanes sweats, enjoying their supreme comfort with the morning coffee, I agree completely. These are too old and thin for a cold weather workout, so I recently added some Champion sweats, a good bit thicker and with a hood, but they are navy. I am, half a year later, still quite self conscious that they are navy and not heather grey.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> The embroidered bear is a cute/almost handsome Brand identification and I've always enjoyed a well made, 100% cotton all grey or navy sweatshirt and would even pay Ralphs prices for the right one. However, a real man just does not wear that sort of thing . Remove the embroidery and I'll take one of those in grey and one in navy! LOL.





TKI67 said:


> Sitting here in my ancient heather grey Hanes sweats, enjoying their supreme comfort with the morning coffee, I agree completely. These are too old and thin for a cold weather workout, so I recently added some Champion sweats, a good bit thicker and with a hood, but they are navy. I am, half a year later, still quite self conscious that they are navy and not heather grey.


Since high school, I have always owned at least one classic grey sweatshirt. I have a wonderful one from BB from the early '90s when it put out a, at that time, line of "vintage" athletic clothes. It's a perfect sweatshirt although cut a bit too big as was the style at the time.

Unfortunately, my girlfriend has all but made it her own. Early in our relationship, we were on vacation and I had taken it along as my "if it gets cold at night" thing to throw on. Well, it got cold and she hadn't brought a "if it gets cold at night" item with her, so, after that, I'd find that sweatshirt in with her clothes so often that I just gave up. It's hers now.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> Since high school, I have always owned at least one classic grey sweatshirt. I have a wonderful one from BB from the early '90s when it put out a, at that time, line of "vintage" athletic clothes. It's a perfect sweatshirt although cut a bit too big as was the style at the time.
> 
> Unfortunately, my girlfriend has all but made it her own. Early in our relationship, we were on vacation and I had taken it along as my "if it gets cold at night" thing to throw on. Well, it got cold and she hadn't brought a "if it gets cold at night" item with her, so, after that, I'd find that sweatshirt in with her clothes so often that I just gave up. It's hers now.


One of my greatest hits of gift giving was the grey Champion crewneck sweatshirt I gave my daughter last Christmas. I relate to your experience.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Peak and Pine

_Dear Mr. Lauren,

May I suggest that on the care tag on your PRL tweed Norfolks you add the following:

*Do not hang on nail in barn over the winter*










or maybe soak the wool in Mouse Bomb before tailoring?










Thank you for your immediate attention.
Your devoted purchaser,
Peak von Pine









_


----------



## drpeter

Great find, Peaks!

It could be a very large and very hungry rabbit, "with nasty, pointy teeth", as in _Monty Python and the Holy Grail _(or maybe a large moth, perhaps) trying to find sustenance in a tough winter. Now if Ralph could put more suede patches to cover the holes, it could then be worn for one of those adverts where he poses in holey jeans and other damaged things.


----------



## Peak and Pine

drpeter said:


> Great find, Peaks!
> 
> It could be a very large and very hungry rabbit.


Nay, it's a mouse family. Two babies in the pocket and mama ran off when I shook it. I usually leave some cloth on a bench to tear up for toasty nests to get through a long Maine winter. But not this year I guess. I salvaged the gusset pockets and leather buttons. A second coat nearby, untouched.


----------



## Fading Fast

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57779


Just swung by this pic again. I really like the Fair Isle-jacket combo. I'd lose the bowtie, throw on a pair of jeans or the right shade of grey flannels and would have a really nice outfit of Ralph's that I'd be happy to wear.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Peak and Pine

Note the above is not Polo, but from the green label line, much maligned, but often pretty good stuff. Like the above. (Lose the tie, Great Hair guy.)

Now this, from Polo...


----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> _Dear Mr. Lauren,
> 
> May I suggest that on the care tag on your PRL tweed Norfolks you add the following:
> 
> *Do not hang on nail in barn over the winter*
> 
> View attachment 57790
> 
> 
> or maybe soak the wool in Mouse Bomb before tailoring?
> 
> View attachment 57791
> 
> 
> Thank you for your immediate attention.
> Your devoted purchaser,
> Peak von Pine
> 
> 
> View attachment 57789
> _


The first thing that comes to mind is a quote from that beloved animated character, Sylvester the Cat, "I hates mices to pieces!" LOL. (Laughing at Sylvesters disdain for mice, not at your unfortunate circumstance! ) Did you note how well those suede patches protected the elbows?


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57834


It's like walking into one of Ralphs stores 40+ years ago...or, just yesterday (it's the viewers choice). However, I must ask; looking at the back wall, up near the ceiling, what is that big metal creation hanging on the wall? It is the details of a picture that can become maddening, when we are left with unanswered questions! LOL. :crazy:


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> However, I must ask; looking at the back wall, up near the ceiling, what is that big metal creation hanging on the wall?


Eagle, I think it is a metal canoe cut in half, with an unexploded artillery shell mounted on the right side. You know, the usual sort of thing one might reasonably expect to find in a Ralph Lauren showroom.


----------



## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> Eagle, I think it is a metal canoe cut in half, with an unexploded artillery shell mounted on the right side. You know, the usual sort of thing one might reasonably expect to find in a Ralph Lauren showroom.


LOL. Thank you, my friend, for that wholly logical explanation of what I might be looking at. You have saved me from and ever wakeful night, "with my eyes wide shut," just wondering what that wall hanging might have been!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> Eagle, I think it is a metal canoe cut in half, with an unexploded artillery shell mounted on the right side. You know, the usual sort of thing one might reasonably expect to find in a Ralph Lauren showroom.


Looks as if it was decorated by the same folks who decorate Chili's and Lupe Tortilla.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57859


Great jacket...love that Tweed! Tame the collar on the OCBD and we have a second winner. Dump the pocket square...it's going a sartorial bridge too far with that rig. And finally, I would wear that embroidered Polo Ralph Lauren sweater, before I would even ever consider wearing those orange trousers. Paraphrasing the late, great General George Patton, "Only a two bit pimp in a Syracuse whorehouse would wear a pair of blaze orange trousers, anywhere other than when hunting afield!~" LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Great jacket...love that Tweed! Tame the collar on the OCBD and we have a second winner. Dump the pocket square...it's going a sartorial bridge too far with that rig. And finally, I would wear that embroidered Polo Ralph Lauren sweater, before I would even ever consider wearing those orange trousers. Paraphrasing the late, great General George Patton, "Only a two bit pimp in a Syracuse whorehouse would wear a pair of blaze orange trousers, anywhere other than when hunting afield!~" LOL.


I would have expected a least a quick sideswiping from you of his rolled up jacket cuffs.

Agreed, the jacket is a classic. I have something similar in my closet today and had nearly that exact one for years (from JAB when it was still a real clothing company competing with BB, when BB was still a real clothing company).

Not sure that's an OCBD as the collar looks to me more cutaway than button down.

The thing that looks really off to me, though, is the loud-logo sweater with the sport coat. I'm not a loud-logo anything, but worn with a pair of chinos in a very casual setting, whatever, but it looks really off to my eye with a sport coat.

I would never wear them, and I love the Patton-quote riff, but I don't mind the orange trousers in the outfit as I think all the colors harmonize well (I'd lose the pocket square too).

Well now, we've certainly analyzed his outfit in detail.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> Only a two bit pimp in a Syracuse whorehouse...


LOL. Is Patton referring to Syracuse in Sicily, on the Ionian coast, or Syracuse in upstate New York on the Lake Onondaga coast?


----------



## Oldsarge

drpeter said:


> LOL. Is Patton referring to Syracuse in Sicily, on the Ionian coast, or Syracuse in upstate New York on the Lake Onondaga coast?


Pretty sure it's New York. I don't believe anyone in Sicily would have much use for tweed.


----------



## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> LOL. Is Patton referring to Syracuse in Sicily, on the Ionian coast, or Syracuse in upstate New York on the Lake Onondaga coast?


Syracuse, NY,...of course. The Orangemen wear orange everything, methinks! Although the University has outlawed use of the term Orangemen because it was determined to be a potentially sexist term. Rather than changing it to Syracuse Orange Men and Women, they are now simply the Syracuse Orange. LOL.


----------



## drpeter

Hmm, I would have thought Patton would have been referring to the city in Sicily since he was involved in the North African campaigns and also was part of the Allied Push into Italy from the south. Patton commanded the US Seventh Army and was the first Allied commander to reach Messina when the Allied invasion of Sicily took place. I don't think Patton was involved in the later landings in Anzio -- which was run by US Sixth Army General Lucas (and later General Truscott who replaced Lucas).

Or maybe he was in the city in upstate New York to preside over some function at Syracuse U...

Sorry, all this history about a potential brothel in Syracuse.. I must be getting really old, LOL.


----------



## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> Hmm, I would have thought Patton would have been referring to the city in Sicily since he was involved in the North African campaigns and also was part of the Allied Push into Italy from the south. Patton commanded the US Seventh Army and was the first Allied commander to reach Messina when the Allied invasion of Sicily took place. I don't think Patton was involved in the later landings in Anzio -- which was run by US Sixth Army General Lucas (and later General Truscott who replaced Lucas).
> 
> Or maybe he was in the city in upstate New York to preside over some function at Syracuse U...
> 
> Sorry, all this history about a potential brothel in Syracuse.. I must be getting really old, LOL.


LOL, The quote I was paraphrasing was when a reporter asked Patton about his "Pearl Handled revolvers" Patton, with the appropriate degree of righteous indignation said, "only a pimp in a New Orleans whorehouse would carry pearl handled revolvers" Given that that just wouldn't have served our purposes here , I paraphrased the great man to fit our present day circumstance, sacrificing historical accuracy in the process. Just another of my feeble attempts at humor. Sorry.


----------



## drpeter

Well, Eagle, you certainly led me down the proverbial garden path with that parody. So we can find this Patton quotation in that classic aquiline work: _Eagle's Alternate History of US Army Operations in Italy, 1941-45_.

Patton, I have read, actually carried pistols that had ivory grips, and resented the suggestion that they were made of pearl.


----------



## Oldsarge

I'm not sure what kind of pimp would carry Single Action Army Colts into a real battle. Not that Patton was ever known much for leading from the front.


----------



## Tweedlover

A bit of trivia-my great uncle's first commission coming out of West Point had him serving alongside of Patton in Pershing's expeditionary force. He also was a classmate of Eisenhower and Bradley.


----------



## Oldsarge

He was in distinguished company, then. How did he spend the WWII years?


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 57881


This displays the walking billboard side of RL.


----------



## drpeter

Oldsarge said:


> I'm not sure what kind of pimp would carry Single Action Army Colts into a real battle. Not that Patton was ever known much for leading from the front.


LOL, I'm not sure what kind of pimp would be in a real battle at all, Sarge. They have far more important things to do than fight wars!

But, I have read that most military units in WWI and WWII had Military Service Brothels, including the US Army and the British Indian Army. It is an uncomfortable memory for the armies of the world, but it is a part of their history going back centuries.


----------



## Oldsarge

drpeter said:


> LOL, I'm not sure what kind of pimp would be in a real battle at all, Sarge. They have far more important things to do than fight wars!
> 
> But, I have read that most military units in WWI and WWII had Military Service Brothels, including the US Army and the British Indian Army. It is an uncomfortable memory for the armies of the world, but it is a part of their history going back centuries.


I don't know about the British but I'm sure that if the Americans did it would have surfaced in some Ph.D dissertation by now. Of course the French Foreign Legion doesn't even try to paper over theirs. It's just part of the TO&E (Table of Organization and Equipment for civilians).

When I was on Active Duty, I found myself in a unit with a genuine New York conman. Going drinking with him was beneficial to the wallet and an education in things far outside my naive youth.


----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph email yesterday titled "Our Summer Favorites."


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> From a Ralph email yesterday titled "Our Summer Favorites."
> View attachment 57943


Ralph has actually captured a summer look that is out of sync with most everything I like about summer clothing. These duds look warm, constricting, and subdued. I cannot speak for others, but for me and like minded people our summer favorites are seersucker, bright madras, polos in colors that either popped or reflect years of loving wear in salt air and sun, Nanny reds, and rangers, camp mocs, and Topsiders.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> Ralph has actually captured a summer look that is out of sync with most everything I like about summer clothing. These duds look warm, constricting, and subdued. I cannot speak for others, but for me and like minded people our summer favorites are seersucker, bright madras, polos in colors that either popped or reflect years of loving wear in salt air and sub, Nanny reds, and rangers, camp mocks, and Topsiders.


Similar to your thoughts, what struck me about the guy wearing the tie was how I would never have guessed it was a Ralph ad had I just been shown his picture.


----------



## drpeter

I clicked on a picture but no luck stopping the flashing images. It would be good to have things stand still for a minute or two, so one could inspect the outfits more closely. I get the feeling I am watching one of Baz Luhrmann's movies, where he cuts so fast, everything goes by in a blur!

Postscript: I right clicked on the image I wanted to inspect, then pasted it into a Word document, and it worked!

I _like_ the outfit on the chap wearing the faded olive green shirtjacket and beige khaki shirt and trousers. I would probably not wear a tie with it. I agree., it is not as much of a summer look as a late spring or early fall look, perhaps. But I like the colours, and I love military style shirts of the kind sported by this model. In fact, I have about half a dozen such jackets, LOL, and often wear them over T shirts, with khaki or poplin trousers.


----------



## drpeter

TKI67 said:


> salt air and sub


You got me there! What does _Sub_ stand for? Subtropical, submarine, subliminal?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> You got me there! What does _Sub_ stand for? Subtropical, submarine, subliminal?


It is the Spell Check word for sun, but I would love a hoagie to set the summer mood.

;0)


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> Similar to your thoughts, what struck me about the guy wearing the tie was how I would never have guessed it was a Ralph ad had I just been shown his picture.


Yeah, in summer I wear primarily seersucker open collar shirts, polos and occasionally T-shirts.


----------



## Fading Fast

It's Sunday, let's visit with our friend the bear (from a Ralph email this past week).


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> It's Sunday, let's visit with our friend the bear (from a Ralph email this past week).
> View attachment 57990


Our friend, the bear, seems to have all of his sartorial bases covered, but why did Ralph have to put that frowning look on the bear that are on virtually all of his human models?


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> It's Sunday, let's visit with our friend the bear (from a Ralph email this past week).
> View attachment 57990


I'd never buy a watch with a teddy bear on the dial or a polo player for that matter, which RL also sells. Did recently see 1 of his watches I quite liked, however its price tag was just under $32,000.


----------



## Fading Fast

Tweedlover said:


> I'd never buy a watch with a teddy bear on the dial or a polo player for that matter, which RL also sells. Did recently see 1 of his watches I quite liked, however its price tag was just under $32,000.


Holy Canoli, I had no idea he sold watches for $32,000. You know what looks really nice for $32,000? $32,000 in the bank. 

When I first learned the bear watches cost $2000, I was stunned, but $32,000 is a whole different level of watch buyer.


----------



## Fading Fast

From a weekend Ralph email:


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> Holy Canoli, I had no idea he sold watches for $32,000. You know what looks really nice for $32,000? $32,000 in the bank.
> 
> When I first learned the bear watches cost $2000, I was stunned, but $32,000 is a whole different level of watch buyer.


I have three lovely watches, and all three together did not cost a grand when new. $32,000 for a watch sounds like a bad idea unless you have already got an eight digit liquid net worth and are regularly and generously supporting things like food banks.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> I have three lovely watches, and all three together did not cost a grand when new. $32,000 for a watch sounds like a bad idea unless you have already got an eight digit liquid net worth and are regularly and generously supporting things like food banks.


I have several "vintage" watches ('20s - '50s) that cost between $100-$300 (about that range anyway) acquired over three decades and I did buy my girlfriend a $1000 watch for a memorable birthday, so that's my range, but I get that some people spend a lot on watches.

I'm a "it's your money" guy, so spend it how you like, but I agree from a practical perspective, it only makes sense to spend that kind of money if you already have a meaningful amount of savings.

I went back yesterday to look at Ralph's watch page and noticed there was one for $99,000. Again, it's your money, you can spend it how you want, but for me, I would get no pleasure out of that watch even if I could easily afford it as I can't imagine wearing it ($99,000 on my wrist, even insured, would feel awful to me) or liking it so much that just having it would be worth $99,000.

Maybe it's an investment as some of these expensive watching hold or even grow in value, but I really wonder how much a $99,000 Ralph watch is worth the moment after you "drive it off the lot."


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58110


I like both outfits, notwithstanding the unbecoming tautness of the buttoned jacket, but I am wondering why one guy is wearing a coat while the other guy is in madras. Must be a unique PRL microclimate thing going on.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> I like both outfits, notwithstanding the unbecoming tautness of the buttoned jacket, but I am wondering why one guy is wearing a coat while the other guy is in madras. Must be a unique PRL microclimate thing going on.


I agree with everything you said and would add, I really like the madras outfit and I'm not a big madras fan, but Ralph got that combo really right.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I have several "vintage" watches ('20s - '50s) that cost between $100-$300 (about that range anyway) acquired over three decades and I did buy my girlfriend a $1000 watch for a memorable birthday, so that's my range, but I get that some people spend a lot on watches.
> 
> I'm a "it's your money" guy, so spend it how you like, but I agree from a practical perspective, it only makes sense to spend that kind of money if you already have a meaningful amount of savings.
> 
> I went back yesterday to look at Ralph's watch page and noticed there was one for $99,000. Again, it's your money, you can spend it how you want, but for me, I would get no pleasure out of that watch even if I could easily afford it as I can't imagine wearing it ($99,000 on my wrist, even insured, would feel awful to me) or liking it so much that just having it would be worth $99,000.
> 
> Maybe it's an investment as some of these expensive watching hold or even grow in value, but I really wonder how much a $99,000 Ralph watch is worth the moment after you "drive it off the lot."


Faders, you've hit upon a very fundamental question that arises often in many contexts: The relationship between money and intrinsic worth or value.

I think one approach to understanding this relationship comes from regarding money as a scale, a system of measurement which helps us compare apples and oranges, so to speak, and assess the relative worth of objects, events, even people. It is ironic that we use the term _net worth _to denote a person's financial position. A word that means intrinsic (human) value has also come to mean financial status.

Occasionally, we will get out of this system by saying certain things are priceless, that is, money cannot measure the value of those things. But for the most part, monetary value is an indication of how much something is wanted by someone, and this is almost always relative to something else. And most of the time, the value we place on things (and people) is subjective. It can also be social: It can depend on our standing in the particular social niche we occupy.

A clear example of the extremes involved in the judgments of intrinsic worth and monetary value comes from the large domain of collecting. People collect things, at least some people do. And collectibles can often command prices, especially at auctions, that most people would regard as astronomical or even outrageous. In the nineties, a van Gogh painting, _Sunflowers_, was bought for $75 million by a Japanese collector. But consider the psychology of the collector ( I myself am one, as I have said before, and I collect first editions and stamps, mostly).

If one has virtually unlimited funds, like Bill Gross the bond king, one can set out to form the most perfect stamp collection ever, and pay whatever price a stamp commands, in order to add it to one's collection. Mr Gross formed the most perfect collection of 19th century United States stamps ever. and then, after the fun of the hunt was over, he auctioned these stamps and donated the entire amount, worth tens of millions of dollars, to charity. He did this again with a gorgeous British Empire collection (an area I specialize in, many beautiful stamps) and a Scandinavian countries collection.

The amounts realized at such auctions are largely based on money as a scale that is operating to determine relative worth to collectors. It is entirely psychological because absent human beings, absent their motives and interests, stamps are simply bits of colored paper, often ugly! The rare stamp that sits at the top of the pyramid is the British Guiana 1 cent magenta, an ugly and damaged bit of paper that commanded a price of $9.5 million at auction in 2017. Sotheby's is again auctioning it next month and it is expected to go for $15 million.

So value is not just what the market will bear. Or rather, what the market will bear is naturally dependent on human desire -- for things, for social standing among your peers, whatever. In this way of seeing the world, it is not at all surprising that a watch might cost 32 grand.

But fortunately, we set some things aside as commanding no price, fully outside the realm of the scale we call money. What is the value of the love you feel for your child? What is the value of the Buddha's _Dharma_, or Jesus' Sermon on the Mount? What is the value of the helping hand you extend to someone in dire need? These things are priceless and should remain so. They maintain our human relationships, our shared lives on this earth, and a scale like money is inadequate to express their value or worth. Although sometimes we squalid human beings do try! Some years ago a company tried to patent the human genome, and this attempt failed -- fortunately, for all of us. Imagine that, patenting human life itself, so that your company can make a profit!


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## ran23

that two-tone belt, I want it.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58219


Needs a PS and a teddy bear sweater tied around his waist. On a more sober note, the PRL penchant for loading up his living mannequins with rich but discordant articles is truly bizarre. It is the sartorial equivalent of lobster Thermador served over Fritos and drizzled with mint jelly with a salad of bibb lettuce tossed in brown gravy.


----------



## drpeter

Agreed. It's the usual RL "clash of everything". And your food simile is most appropriate!

I have made lobster thermidor in the distant past. It took two hours to prepare and fifteen minutes to consume! I served it to friends with a fine Sauvignon Blanc and fresh bread. I decided that, for me, a good scallops dish would be just as satisfying -- say, coquilles St Jacques or even scallops broiled with butter and sprinkled with herbs from one's garden. Besides, slowly boiling the poor buggers to death is bad _karma_, isn't it?

And as a colleague in my line of country once told me, we do share neurotransmitters like serotonin, dopamine, etc., with lobsters. Yikes!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> Agreed. It's the usual RL "clash of everything". And your food simile is most appropriate!
> 
> I have made lobster thermidor in the distant past. It took two hours to prepare and fifteen minutes to consume! I served it ro friends with a fine Sauvignon Blanc and fresh bread. I decided that, for me, a good scallops dish would be just as satisfying -- say, coquilles St Jacques or even scallops broiled with butter and sprinkled with herbs from one's garden. Besides, slowly boiling the poor buggers to death is bad _karma_, isn't it?
> 
> And as a colleague in my line of country once told me, we do share neurotransmitters like serotonin, dopamine, etc., with lobsters. Yikes!


One of my favorite shellfish dinners is to drop large, dry scallops onto a very hot cast iron pan with a dot of butter and a dot of miso paste. About thirty seconds a side, just long enough for a great crust but leaving the interior still glistening. Squeeze a little lime on the seared scallops. I really love shellfish.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58219


The individual garments that make up the rig pictured are all very nice in their own right, but a must tell you, a southpaw would never wear their trench/rain coat unbuttoned and with the belt tied, like is pictured above. Only a person not in their right mind would wear a coat like that and it is said that southpaws are all in their right mind! LOL.


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Tweedlover

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 58231


I'm sort of a fan of the Indian blanket designed coats and sweaters the RRL line puts out. But, not $1000+ worth of a fan.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Tweedlover said:


> I'm sort of a fan of the Indian blanket designed coats and sweaters the RRL line puts out. But, not $1000+ worth of a fan.


Pendleton is about 1/3 the cost. I'd look on Etsy for a Pendleton one.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> The individual garments that make up the rig pictured are all very nice in their own right, but a must tell you, a southpaw would never wear their trench/rain coat unbuttoned and with the belt tied, like is pictured above. Only a person not in their right mind would wear a coat like that and it is said that southpaws are all in their right mind! LOL.


As trenchant a defense of the left hand as Sir Philip Sidney's defence of poesy.

Although the latter's arguments and defense of poets against Stephen Gosson's attack took several pages, he was essentially saying, between the lines, that Gosson was out of his bloody mind, LOL.


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 58261


That image hits about as many well chosen targets as one photograph can!


----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 58231


I want one of those horse blanket jackets or Indian Blanket jackets, whatever they may be called.


----------



## Oldsarge

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 58261


Any picture with a toddler and a puppy in it gets my vote every time!


----------



## Peak and Pine

Close in on maybe the most likeable ad of the entire thread...










...and not just afloat...


----------



## Peak and Pine

Fallen logs make very good summer seats.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 58286
> 
> 
> Fallen logs make very good summer seats.


Wooden canoe beats ice cream. Ice cream beats pushing the Rover. Rover car tops the canoe to amazing lake. PRL rocks, paper scissors.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

TKI67 said:


> Wooden canoe beats ice cream. Ice cream beats pushing the Rover. Rover car tops the canoe to amazing lake. PRL rocks, paper scissors.


I think the big dog and the small puppy should beat everything. LOL. But ice cream isn't good for dogs, is it?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> I think the big dog and the small puppy should beat everything. LOL. But ice cream isn't good for dogs, is it?


I think ice cream is ok as long as it does not have chocolate, but I am not a veterinarian. I only play one in this house when ours is closed for a long weekend.


----------



## Oldsarge

The toxicity of chocolate for dogs is real but usually over stated. I looked it up on a veterinary website and the lethal dose is one ounce of chocolate per pound of dog weight so my poodle is safe so long as she doesn't eat about 2 1/2 lbs. No, I don't let her have anywhere near that. Maybe a couple of grams. YMMV.


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Oldsarge said:


> The toxicity of chocolate for dogs is real but usually over stated. I looked it up on a veterinary website and the lethal dose is one ounce of chocolate per pound of dog weight so my poodle is safe so long as she doesn't eat about 2 1/2 lbs. No, I don't let her have anywhere near that. Maybe a couple of grams. YMMV.


Yep. We used to have a 100 pound half German shepherd, one quarter Lab, and one quarter Newfoundland. On his birthday we would take him to Baskin Robbins, bringing a Sara Lee all butter chocolate cake and some plates. He waited outside while we went in and got three scoops of vanilla. We served him half the cake and a scoop of ice cream. We split the rest. We'd put it down and start singing. His was gone before we finished "Happy birthday."


----------



## Fading Fast

A Sunday visit from our friend the bear.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

TKI67 said:


> Yep. We used to have a 100 pound half German shepherd, one quarter Lab, and one quarter Newfoundland. On his birthday we would take him to Baskin Robbins, bringing a Sara Lee all butter chocolate cake and some plates. He waited outside while we went in and got three scoops of vanilla. We served him half the cake and a scoop of ice cream. We split the rest. We'd put it down and start singing. His was gone before we finished "Happy birthday."


Indeed, that was a race you will always lose! LOL.



Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58452


Such nice cardigans and chambray shirts, paired with trousers suitable only for fatigue wear on in the case of those chinos, suitable only for the rubbish bin. Ralph, you vex me! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Such nice cardigans and chambray shirts, paired with trousers suitable only for fatigue wear on in the case of those chinos, suitable only for the rubbish bin. Ralph, you vex me! LOL.


A few pages back, @TKI67 noted how Ralph usually mashes together a bunch of discordant styles and items as you just noted. I don't get why he does this, but it must work in some way as the company is clearly successful in a field littered with failures.

I live in a pretty fashion-y city and all but never see someone dressed that way. My complete guess is, as fancied up as it is, it's nothing more than the old-fashioned "it pays to advertise" ethos of show as much as you can and let the customer find what he likes (as we do in this thread all the time).

To that end, I've come - in ways because of this thread - to be able to disaggregate his ensembles and, just as you did, find the stuff I like (the things you noted). It's also why it's such a joy when, once in awhile, we come across a full (or nearly full) outfit from Ralph that is nice.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58475


Nice rig, absent the belt, but I would lengthen the hemline on the waist of the jacket, dump the pocket square, replace the pleated trousers with flat front chinos and I would get a belt that fits me rather than walking around looking like I was wearing my big brothers belt! Tell Ralph he's on the right track with this one. LOL.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I live in a pretty fashion-y city and all but never see someone dressed that way.


Interesting. Faders, even in my little college town, I see kids walking around with tattered jeans, some with holes so enormous about three-quarters of their thighs and calves are literally exposed to the air (even in bloody winter!). Surely there has to be some in NYC who follow these approaches to dressing.

For a while in the nineties, the young women at my university took to wearing men's loose boxer shorts (the cotton flannel kind) _on top of_ their jeans. This trend eventually faded away.

I think Ralph's garment collages and patched-up clothes are a kind of reverse snobbery that the very wealthy often use to signal their disdain for the pretences of the haute couture crowd. It ends up being another kind of pretence. In our times, the very word _authenticity_ has become a buzzword, a sort of pretence, hasn't it? It started in the marketing of various brands, I gather.

I mentioned this a couple of years ago in a post here, but there are people who, out of necessity, wear patched clothing and use patch-work quilts. The poor people of Gee's Bend who made those patchwork quilts have become well-known because museums started exhibiting those quilts. Their use of the quilts was genuine because that was all they could afford. Now a rich person flaunting a patchwork quilt made out of old clothing would be, in my opinion, throwing the poverty of those people in their face -- insulting them, in short.

So what to make of Lauren's exhibits? In order to sell his clothes, must he flaunt others' poverty? Or perhaps he sincerely sees a new aesthetic in the ragged and patched clothes -- but if that were the case, he would actually be selling those clothes, wouldn't he? The Japanese do this, with their _boro_ cloth.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Interesting. Faders, even in my little college town, I see kids walking around with tattered jeans, some with holes so enormous about three-quarters of their thighs and calves are literally exposed to the air (even in bloody winter!). Surely there has to be some in NYC who follow these approaches to dressing.
> 
> For a while in the nineties, the young women at my university took to wearing men's loose boxer shorts (the cotton flannel kind) _on top of_ their jeans. This trend eventually faded away.
> 
> I think Ralph's garment collages and patched-up clothes are a kind of reverse snobbery that the very wealthy often use to signal their disdain for the pretences of the haute couture crowd. It ends up being another kind of pretence. In our times, the very word _authenticity_ has become a buzzword, a sort of pretence, hasn't it? It started in the marketing of various brands, I gather.
> 
> I mentioned this a couple of years ago in a post here, but there are people who, out of necessity, wear patched clothing and use patch-work quilts. The poor people of Gee's Bend who made those patchwork quilts have become well-known because museums started exhibiting those quilts. Their use of the quilts was genuine because that was all they could afford. Now a rich person flaunting a patchwork quilt made out of old clothing would be, in my opinion, throwing the poverty of those people in their face -- insulting them, in short.
> 
> So what to make of Lauren's exhibits? In order to sell his clothes, must he flaunt others' poverty? Or perhaps he sincerely sees a new aesthetic in the ragged and patched clothes -- but if that were the case, he would actually be selling those clothes, wouldn't he? The Japanese do this, with their _boro_ cloth.


To be sure, I see plenty of ripped and tattered jeans (less recently). What I meant - I'm sorry if I wasn't clear - is I almost never see someone dressed the way Ralph dresses his more-out-there models and mannequins.

So, I'll see someone in ripped and/or patched jeans, but not also with a chambray shirt, a suit vest and multicolored shawl cardigan. Or, just noting another recent example from this thread, I've never seen a jeans-vest-tie-baseball-jacket outfit.

My point was not that these individual items don't show up - they do - but that I've all but never seen the "full on" Ralph mishmash outfits worn.


----------



## drpeter

Understood. Thanks for the clarification!


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Peak and Pine

Maybe we could buy some of this and paint over anout half the stuff that's been posted here.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Old Road Dog

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 58513


A nice shot from an earlier PRL era. The fit if everything is much more relaxed than currently. This is an outfit that any of us could wear and not draw side-long glances.


----------



## Peak and Pine

^^
Circa 1995.

We need some more dogs here, Polo dogs...










Oops. That may be a leopard. I know I'vre got dogs here someplace. Lemme shuffle through some stuff...










There we go, we're rolling now...




























Bow wow to all.


----------



## Oldsarge

The top one is a baby lion. The rest are some fine puppers; and the young lady in the orange hat ain't shabby none, neither.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Oldsarge said:


> The top one is a baby lion.


With spots?


----------



## Oldsarge

Peak and Pine said:


> With spots?


Yes, baby lions have spots. They disappear as the critter grows.


----------



## Peak and Pine

You're right I should have known that. My own didn't disappear until my late teens and I stopped eating chocolate.


----------



## eagle2250

The guy holding the baby lion in the first picture has facial characteristics quite similar to those of Trevor Lawrence, the Jacksonville Jaguars new quarterback. How ironic?


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58567


It appears Ralph has taken design liberties with the US Army and USAF MA-1 flight jackets and that's OK, as women love a guy in a flight jacket. It goes oh-so-well with those Ralph chinos and if they had zipped up the coat up to cover "Paddington," an otherwise perfect sweatshirt. Also, in the entire recorded history of the world, no one has ever worn a bowtie with a flight jacket! Nuff said....I guess.  LOL. 

PS: Mrs Eagle tells me, "it's not the flight jacket, but rather the flight suit that is the sartorial aphrodisiac. Good to know...Ralph, take a note!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> It appears Ralph has taken design liberties with the US Army and USAF MA-1 flight jackets and that's OK, as women love a guy in a flight jacket. It goes oh-so-well with those Ralph chinos and if they had zipped up the coat up to cover "Paddington," an otherwise perfect sweatshirt. Also, in the entire recorded history of the world, no one has ever worn a bowtie with a flight jacket! Nuff said....I guess.  LOL.
> 
> PS: Mrs Eagle tells me, "it's not the flight jacket, but rather the flight suit that is the sartorial aphrodisiac. Good to know...Ralph, take a note!


Very good breakdown. What got me about that pic, as it's been well over a year since I've been in a clothing store, is how much I enjoy just seeing the piles of shirts, racks of sport coats, shelves of polos, etc. While I still buy some things now and then, I'm well past my acquisition stage and just enjoy a store stocked like that for its look and feel.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Peak and Pine

^^

I wear tee shirts longer than that. Contrast collar shirts made sense when collars were detachable. Nowadays they're just pimp fodder. Pass.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58585


The fit of the jacket seems a bit abbrec=viated, but otherwise, not bad, not bad at all Ralph!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> The fit of the jacket seems a bit abbrec=viated, but otherwise, not bad, not bad at all Ralph!


The fit is silly tight and short, but for patchwork, the jacket is on the tame side.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Fading Fast said:


> The fit is silly tight and short, but for *patchwork, *the jacket is on the tame side.


Interesting. Didn't notice the patchwork part (cell phone myopia). Now I like it even less. But left wondering, is there a name for this sort of put-together cloth other than patchwork?

Patchwork is commonly thought of as geometric shapes, usually square, of different cloth sewn together to make a whole. But in Fast's posting above this is not the case. The cloth switches* only at the seams, *so the whole left front quarter is a single cloth, the left a different one, etc. This makes the transistions smoother, very smooth in the above since the cloths are in color harmony. Contest, name this kind of tailoring?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

I was put off by the fit, the patchwork, the white button down collar, stripes and emblems on the same tie, a striped tie worn with a plaid jacket, the pairing of summery white pants with a tweed jacket, and the randomly selected pocket square that does not play up any of the colors in the jacket or tie. Otherwise it looks just fine.


----------



## Old Road Dog

The cloth there is probably silk or silk/wool.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Old Road Dog said:


> The cloth there is probably silk or silk/wool.


Good eye. PRL website says linen, cotton, and silk.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58637


I had a jacket that was almost identical to the one pictured back in the late 1960's (1967 0r 1968, I believe)....a testimony as to how timeless the style has proven to be! The sun hued shirt and the wine hued sweater are perfect coordinates.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I had a jacket that was almost identical to the one pictured back in the late 1960's (1967 0r 1968, I believe)....a testimony as to how timeless the style has proven to be! The sun hued shirt and the wine hued sweater are perfect coordinates.


 As you note, timeless.

And overall, other than the sloppy collar, this is a darn nice Ralph effort with none of his usual crazy this or that.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Nice trousers.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58676


The most positive thing about that picture, to my eye, is the gentleman's smile/expression on his face. Ralph, you should do more ads like this!


----------



## Old Road Dog

This is a vintage ad from the 80's featuring surfer Buzzy Kerbox. The ads were much more evocative of a lifestyle we might aspire to, rather than the goofy mannequin shots seen so much here.


----------



## drpeter

Wow, I am truly impressed, Old Road Dog! You actually identified the surfer -- was he famous, in surfing circles, that is?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Old Road Dog said:


> This is a vintage ad from the 80's featuring surfer Buzzy Kerbox. The ads were much more evocative of a lifestyle we might aspire to, rather than the goofy mannequin shots seen so much here.


I believe he is in 2183, too.


----------



## Old Road Dog

I don't know much about his surfing career, but he was a staple of Ralph's ads back in the day. He was often featured with model Clotilda, who became the face of Ralph Lauren women's in much the same way as Buzzy was the guy's guy. Photographer Bruce Weber had everything to do with composing those ads


----------



## ran23

I has sitting here wearing Navy Polo(Uniqlo with button down collars) and decided to put on seersucker trousers. (Wife is in the garden). they do feel great in 68F heat. (yes, I know, not that hot).


----------



## Fading Fast

I think this is from Ralph's since shutdown Rugby line:


----------



## drpeter

Wearing a suit -- or a jacket and tie -- and shoes, but omitting the socks, has never sat well with me. I think exposed ankles and shins are not a look that is attractive regardless of whatever fashion imperative is driving the sartorial moment.

Even worse, in a way, is the look that many sport, which is shoes with socks that hang low and expose the shin between the trouser cuffs and the top of the socks. Just my personal take.

Of course, with casual clothes, shoes or sandals without socks are perfectly fine. It's the clash between formal dress and exposed shin that I find awkward.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> I think this is from Ralph's since shutdown Rugby line:
> View attachment 58680


I agree with drpeter's assessment; if you are going to wear a summer suit or a blazer/sport coat with a tie, take the time to pull on a pair of socks It will improve one's appearance and save your shoes from the dreaded "stink foot" condition. Just saying......


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> I agree with drpeter's assessment; if you are going to wear a summer suit or a blazer/sport coat with a tie, take the time to pull on a pair of socks It will improve one's appearance and save your shoes from the dreaded "stink foot" condition. Just saying......


As a look I agree that it looks unfinished without socks, but it brings back memories of guys hurrying out of the locker room taking all available shortcuts including no socks and untied ties, hoping to not be caught by monitors and given demerits for dress code infractions. These things did not really save much time. I am convinced it was a game.


----------



## Tweedlover

Sockless has always struck me as a horrible look when wearing a suit of sport coat.


----------



## Califax

I think it depends upon the whole ensemble.

If it's a suit on the formal side; absolutely, socks are required.

Even with a more casual suit, socks are usually necessary; I suppose if I thought about it hard enough, however, I could think of exceptions that most would agree with.

A jacket/tie depends also imo.

If you're wearing a more casual jacket/tie and some slightly rumply khakis, to my eye it would almost look weird to wear socks. (I know what's coming; "well, don't wear rumply khakis." Meh. I wore that look more or less throughout prep school/college, and I ain't giving it up. Not yet anyway haha.)

And it also depends upon the shoes: loafers imo should aways be worn sockless.


----------



## Oldsarge

I'll go without socks if I'm wearing sandals but never otherwise.


----------



## Peak and Pine

I'll go without socks (and shoes) when spare changing traffic stopped at the ligbt at Elm and 4th.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58716


Looking at those rigs from the perspective of individual components, the university striped shirt, both ties and the sweater and sweater vest are all very nice and I would wear any of them in a New York micro-second, except, perhaps for the Tennis Sweater...I've just never cared for that sweater design. However, truth be known, I cringe at the remaining components and the overall visual effect of those rigs.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Looking at those rigs from the perspective of individual components, the university striped shirt, both ties and the sweater and sweater vest are all very nice and I would wear any of them in a New York micro-second, except, perhaps for the Tennis Sweater...I've just never cared for that sweater design. However, truth be known, I cringe at the remaining components and the overall visual effect of those rigs.


Agreed, today's pic was in the camp of Ralph-crazy ensembles, but with a lot of individual elements that are nice.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Much less of a clash -- the patterns are more subtle and the colours toned down. There is an overall harmony. 

Hard to tell what that blue strap is doing on the fellow's wrist though, could it be an interesting design in watch straps?


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58774


One of Ralph's much better efforts. There is even what appears to be a genuine expression on the guy's face. The single recommendation I would offer is take that model in to see a good barber!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> One of Ralph's much better efforts. There is even what appears to be a genuine expression on the guy's face. The single recommendation I would offer is take that model in to see a good barber!


Your comment had me look back at the pic and I just noticed something, the button-down collar is properly buttoned down. We've talked about in this thread that Ralph never does that in his pics, but perhaps this being the Lauren line (which is both a lower-priced line and, at times in the company's history, has been outsourced via a licensing agreement), he doesn't do as many quirky things with the advertising as this is a much more "traditional" looking ad.


----------



## Oldsarge

eagle2250 said:


> One of Ralph's much better efforts. There is even what appears to be a genuine expression on the guy's face. The single recommendation I would offer is take that model in to see a good barber!


You're just jealous that he has that much hair. I know I am!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58788


The individual garments are fine, each and every one of them. However the deployment of those garments leaves much to be desired. Young man, if you are going to wear that rig, wear it right!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> The individual garments are fine, each and every one of them. However the deployment of those garments leaves much to be desired. Young man, if you are going to wear that rig, wear it right!


What caught my attention in this one is how well, IMO, the pants and jacket go together color-wise.


----------



## Peak and Pine

eagle2250 said:


> The individual garments are fine, each and every one of them. However the deployment of those garments leaves much to be desired.


Huh?
Can't imagine a better pairing for a tough to pair jacket. Really, really like the jacket. Maybe the blonde locks distract. Below, with removed head.


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Tweedlover

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 58792


That hurts my eyes.


----------



## eagle2250

Oldsarge said:


> You're just jealous that he has that much hair. I know I am!


Not meaning to be brag, but truth be known, I grow more hair out of my ears than that model sports on his head. LOL.


----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 58791


Perhaps the best model in Ralph's lineup! An urban cowboy, perhaps, but the man really does wear those clothes!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Peak and Pine

A favorite pic...


----------



## Peak and Pine

Posted earlier and brought back because...










...it doesn't end with a cool baseball tie-in poster. Nooooo, there's more. Step right up, get'em while they're hot, RALPH'S HOT DOGS...

















This thing is going to travel around the country this summer, visiting various MLB parks. Take me out to the Ralph Game, buy me some peanuts and cra...


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Peak and Pine said:


> Posted earlier and brought back because...
> 
> View attachment 58867
> 
> 
> ...it doesn't end with a cool baseball tie-in poster. Nooooo, there's more. Step right up, get'em while they're hot, RALPH'S HOT DOGS...
> 
> View attachment 58868
> 
> View attachment 58869
> 
> This thing is going to travel around the country this summer, visiting various MLB parks. Take me out to the Ralph Game, buy me some peanuts and cra...


That dog and fries go great with any outfit! I want home made lemonade with mine, please.


----------



## Oldsarge

I'd take a cold beer but the dog and fries looks good even though I just ate breakfast!


----------



## Tweedlover

Peak and Pine said:


> A favorite pic...
> 
> View attachment 58866


I've seen relatively few pics of him in jacket and tie. Seems like most of the time he's shown in casual denims.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Photos of hot dogs and the mention of Polo make me miss the Polo Grounds, crappy though they were.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58914


While I freely acknowledge and do appreciate the undeniable popularity of patchwork Madras jacket designs, I can't say they are for me. Years ago I bought a BB version of same and over the course of four years of ownership (I think), I could work up the nerve to wear the jacket just three (possibly four) times. It eventually made the one way trip to the local Goodwill Store.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> While I freely acknowledge and do appreciate the undeniable popularity of patchwork Madras jacket designs, I can't say they are for me. Years ago I bought a BB version of same and over the course of four years of ownership (I think), I could work up the nerve to wear the jacket just three (possibly four) times. It eventually made the one way trip to the local Goodwill Store.


In today's world, I'd struggle to get comfortable wearing a straight madras sport coat let alone upping the ante by choosing a patchwork one.

We've talked about it before, but as the world has moved aggressively away from suits, jackets, ties, etc., even in what were once "dress up" venues like an office, nice restaurant or at a funeral, you often stand out wearing a simple navy blazer and grey slacks.

Hence, unless you want your clothes to be a topic of conversation (fine if you do), then wearing what were the bolder choices of the past - like patchwork madras or, say, a pink seersucker suit - is pretty much like screaming "look at me" today.

Thirty years ago, you could wear a madras sport coat to drinks at a nice place in the summer and no one would think twice about it; today, just wearing a plain navy sport coat will often get a "why so dressed up" comment.


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> In today's world, I'd struggle to get comfortable wearing a straight madras sport coat let alone upping the ante by choosing a patchwork one.
> 
> We've talked about it before, but as the world has moved aggressively away from suits, jackets, ties, etc., even in what were once "dress up" venues like an office, nice restaurant or at a funeral, you often stand out wearing a simple navy blazer and grey slacks.
> 
> Hence, unless you want your clothes to be a topic of conversation (fine if you do), then wearing what were the bolder choices of the past - like patchwork madras or, say, a pink seersucker suit - is pretty much like screaming "look at me" today.
> 
> Thirty years ago, you could wear a madras sport coat to drinks at a nice place in the summer and no one would think twice about it; today, just wearing a plain navy sport coat will often get a "why so dressed up" comment.


Been retired a bit over 2 years but worked in a professional healthcare setting. Most of the time I wore a sport coat with tie and occasionally a suit. Sometimes my colleagues would ask why I was so dressed up to which I would reply I liked the clothes. Frankly, some of my colleagues took casual work clothes to the point of looking like they slapped on something you'd throw on at home on the weekend. 1 guy nearly always wore T-shirts and jeans.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> In today's world, I'd struggle to get comfortable wearing a straight madras sport coat let alone upping the ante by choosing a patchwork one.
> 
> We've talked about it before, but as the world has moved aggressively away from suits, jackets, ties, etc., even in what were once "dress up" venues like an office, nice restaurant or at a funeral, you often stand out wearing a simple navy blazer and grey slacks.
> 
> Hence, unless you want your clothes to be a topic of conversation (fine if you do), then wearing what were the bolder choices of the past - like patchwork madras or, say, a pink seersucker suit - is pretty much like screaming "look at me" today.
> 
> Thirty years ago, you could wear a madras sport coat to drinks at a nice place in the summer and no one would think twice about it; today, just wearing a plain navy sport coat will often get a "why so dressed up" comment.


It is exactly as you describe it, but I have found an exception. Episcopal churches are populated by Boomers, many of whom still wear things like madras and seersucker!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 58960


Who says you can't ruin a good outfit by picking the wrong tie?


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Complete with a crest from the Ralph Lauren School of Sartorial Discipline for Wayward Boys.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Complete with a crest from the Ralph Lauren School of Sartorial Discipline for Wayward Boys.


I don't get why somebody would want to wear a large crest if it wasn't from a school they attended (or, ever, if they aren't currently attending said school), but a lot of people must as Ralph has been selling blazers like that for many years.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I don't get why somebody would want to wear a large crest if it wasn't from a school they attended (or, ever, if they aren't currently attending said school), but a lot of people must as Ralph has been selling blazers like that for many years.


Maybe the practice is aspirational, to use a current buzzword. People wear T shirts with the names of prestigious universities on them, even if they did not study there. Perhaps they aspire to go to those schools eventually, maybe they think others might be impressed.

The Ralph Lauren crest is still a mystery, though, since it is a symbol only for his company. Perhaps that association is enough.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Maybe the practice is aspirational, to use a current buzzword. People wear T shirts with the names of prestigious universities on them, even if they did not study there. Perhaps they aspire to go to those schools eventually, maybe they think others might be impressed.
> 
> The Ralph Lauren crest is still a mystery, though, since it is a symbol only for his company. Perhaps that association is enough.


Maybe, those are reasonable thoughts. The thing also is, like with the many bear sweaters he puts out, I all but never see these large-crest jackets on anyone IRL. Yet, I see plenty of them in the stores and on his website, so they must be selling to someone.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 59055


The shirt, the tie, the blue jeans and the belt....Ralph, you were doing so well with the base layers, but what the hell happened after that? If you are going to button an outer garment, well then button it. Don't change your mind after just one button!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> Maybe the practice is aspirational, to use a current buzzword. People wear T shirts with the names of prestigious universities on them, even if they did not study there. Perhaps they aspire to go to those schools eventually, maybe they think others might be impressed.
> 
> The Ralph Lauren crest is still a mystery, though, since it is a symbol only for his company. Perhaps that association is enough.


It is clearly aspirational. If you wear a PRL blazer with crest, letter sweater, etc. and plaster a PRL bumper sticker on your vintage British roadster you can proclaim with great haughtiness that you have the free use of Pater's Gold Card, meaning you are demonstrably superior in every conceivable way.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 59136


That is a great shirt...I love the collar roll, as to my eye, that is slightly unusual for Ralph's undersized collars. I wpould like the shirt even more if young "Galahad" would button that top button and properly cinch the tie about his neck. Just a thought.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> That is a great shirt...I love the collar roll, as to my eye, that is slightly unusual for Ralph's undersized collars. I wpould like the shirt even more if young "Galahad" would button that top button and properly cinch the tie about his neck. Just a thought.


It seems like in the "Lauren" line's advertising, as opposed to all the other lines, Ralph at least buttons the collars on the button-down-collar shirts. At some points in the company's history, the Lauren line has been "licensed" out (another company producers and drives it to Ralph's specs) so that might have something to do with it. Good catch, while not a full roll, his collar does have a some. I own some J.Crew OCBDs whose collars are so short that they have no roll at all.


----------



## Old Road Dog

The shirt in question is from licensee _Lauren*. *_The cloth is undoubtedly a cotton / poly blend with a no-iron finish. Ralph doesn't like the licensee lines to be too close in appearance to his PRL couture line, so everything is toned down and "matchy-matchy", while Polo shows eclectic and couture styling.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 59169


On the plus side, I wish we knew more about the belt that he is wearing...just a few mre details would be helpful. However, that darned shirt tail hanging out at the left front really cranks my jaw, as does so much of what Ralph incorporates in his ads. I think he is trying to give me an ulcer! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 59246


I have a crap ton of those BDU's in storage containers out in the garage. If someone is that interested in wearing old BDU trousers, join the military and they will give them to you, brand new. Wear em hard and fade them out and "Sarge" will tell you to get a new pair reissued and get rid of the old pair. Then all you have to do is go out and buy the sweatshirt, blazer and scarf from Ralph and you have the outfit pictured above! LOL.


----------



## Oldsarge

I actually prefer the old OD's to BDU's because the fabric was softer. Wearing camouflage in the city is just--odd.


----------



## Oldsarge

And Brooks Brothers being Ralph-ish.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Oldsarge said:


> I actually prefer the old OD's to BDU's because the fabric was softer. Wearing camouflage in the city is just--odd.


I liked the chambray and denim days in the old USN. Khakis were ok, but "works," blue or white, were the best.


----------



## drpeter

I've never cared for piping on blazers. It is often done on blazers worn along with sports uniforms, like cricket whites, usually when the team is introduced to a head of state or royalty, etc.


----------



## Oldsarge

TKI67 said:


> I liked the chambray and denim days in the old USN. Khakis were ok, but "works," blue or white, were the best.


Truth! There was something "seriously at work" about that uni. The current silly blue camouflage is just posy. Someone in DepNav needs their head examined.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Oldsarge said:


> I liked the chambray and denim days in the old USN. Khakis were ok, but "works," blue or white, were the best.
> Truth! There was something seriously 'at work' about sailors in that uniform. Blue camouflage looks so poser.


Maybe they could come up with a black and white along the lines of the old "zebra" camouflage.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 59297


Eye catching, for sure, but truth be known, it causes the bile to rise in my throat. The fabric pattern is so bold that it actually seems offensive (to my eye). The sizing is all wrong: the jacket is too short, the sleeves are short and the pants are too tight in the thighs and the buttocks region of this wearer and the trousers legs are a bit on the high water side! Ralph, you are overdue for your eye check. LOL.


----------



## Old Road Dog

He's dressed for the business day......if his job is being part of the staff at the Polo/Ralph Lauren flagship store.....and absolutely nowhere else!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Eye catching, for sure, but truth be known, it causes the bile to rise in my throat. The fabric pattern is so bold that it actually seems offensive (to my eye). The sizing is all wrong: the jacket is too short, the sleeves are short and the pants are too tight in the thighs and the buttocks region of this wearer and the trousers legs are a bit on the high water side! Ralph, you are overdue for your eye check. LOL.


It's not a pattern I'd wear, but you hit on the thing that really makes it awful - the cut and tailoring are horrible. Everything you said about it is correct plus the terrible way the trousers bunch/rumple around the knees. For that suit to really work, it needs classic proportions and spot-on tailoring.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 59408


Get rid of that hat (and keep in mind, I am a big fan of hats!) and the embroidered crest on the sweater....and you have a workable rig. I really like the loafers and the argyle socks...nice touches.


----------



## Tweedlover

eagle2250 said:


> Get rid of that hat (and keep in mind, I am a big fan of hats!) and the embroidered crest on the sweater....and you have a workable rig. I really like the loafers and the argyle socks...nice touches.


I'm a hat lover but never have been a fan of bucket hats.


----------



## Fading Fast

That is an odd patchwork sport coat.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 59496
> 
> That is an odd patchwork sport coat.


Needs camo and a teddy bear. Also untuck the shirt, at least on one side. Tie a tennis sweater around the waist. Those are the failings, but the real success is the insouciance of the model.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 59602


Standing on their own, each of those garments are all potentially very nice, but disastrous sizing and questionable presentation of the items together do not show them in a good light. I'm not sure Ralph is going to sell anything with that ad.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Standing on their own, each of those garments are all potentially very nice, but disastrous sizing and questionable presentation of the items together do not show them in a good light. I'm not sure Ralph is going to sell anything with that ad.


There is going to be an entire generation who has no idea how properly tailored clothes should fit. I don't mean "my" idea of fit is correct, but there were generally accepted parameters for fit established over many years, that seem, now, to be being tossed out the window.


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> There is going to be an entire generation who has no idea how properly tailored clothes should fit. I don't mean "my" idea of fit is correct, but there were generally accepted parameters for fit established over many years, that seem, now, to be being tossed out the window.


Yeah, starting with the terribly short length of those pants.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> There is going to be an entire generation who has no idea how properly tailored clothes should fit. I don't mean "my" idea of fit is correct, but there were generally accepted parameters for fit established over many years, that seem, now, to be being tossed out the window.


Which also means they will think of a suit or an odd jacket as an article of clothing to be avoided because of how uncomfortable and constricting it is with its high armholes and binding chest. All of this of course, is happening as the sack suit and odd jacket disappear. A sack jacket is an amazingly comfortable article of clothing. So that generation will also likely grow up not knowing how a suit or jacket can provide a microclimate for the wearer and pockets galore for all the things they may want to carry, a list that grows as one ages: wallet, pen(s), spare handkerchief, glasses, phone, and pocket knife being the basics but often Milk Bones for dogs, chocolates or caramels for children, Altoids, cough drops, a flask, a pipe with pouch of tobacco and pipe tool and matched...etc.

Of course in a warming world the portable microclimate is not needed. The tee-shirt suffices. The wallet may be very small since much of what used to be in it is now on the phone. No one uses pens anymore, especially fountain pens. No one carries a spare handkerchief. Lasik obviates the need for eyewear for many. The pocket knife is even disappearing. What's a pipe?


----------



## eagle2250

TKI67 said:


> Which also means they will think of a suit or an odd jacket as an article of clothing to be avoided because of how uncomfortable and constricting it is with its high armholes and binding chest. All of this of course, is happening as the sack suit and odd jacket disappear. A sack jacket is an amazingly comfortable article of clothing. So that generation will also likely grow up not knowing how a suit or jacket can provide a microclimate for the wearer and pockets galore for all the things they may want to carry, a list that grows as one ages: wallet, pen(s), spare handkerchief, glasses, phone, and pocket knife being the basics but often Milk Bones for dogs, chocolates or caramels for children, Altoids, cough drops, a flask, a pipe with pouch of tobacco and pipe tool and matched...etc.
> 
> Of course in a warming world the portable microclimate is not needed. The tee-shirt suffices. The wallet may be very small since much of what used to be in it is now on the phone. No one uses pens anymore, especially fountain pens. No one carries a spare handkerchief. Lasik obviates the need for eyewear for many. The pocket knife is even disappearing. What's a pipe?


"Pockets, zippers?" Should we ever get to the point that we are dressing purely for comfort and convenience, I think anyone who has ever worn a flight suit will agree, a flight suit design is the way to go. With the inherent tie in with Star Trek and Star Wars, how could they not be an instant and enduring hit? Just saying.....


----------



## drpeter

I think clothes are going to evolve, just as they have in the past. If we consider how far human attire has come just over the last three hundred years or so, it will be evident how dramatic such an evolution can be. The long coats, tight breeches and tricorn hats worn by European and American gentlemen of the eighteenth century are a far cry from the suits of the mid-to-late twentieth century.

If we look a bit farther afield to other parts of the world, we can see a bewildering array of dress and fashions, and even a different collection of sumptuary laws regarding attire. Often people with different ethnic and religious persuasions dress in distinct fashion, partly to announce their affiliations and separate them from others who inhabit the same physical space. A turban on a Sikh is quite different from a turban on a member of Al Qaeda, although that distnction was lost in this country where a Sikh shopkeeper was shot to death after 9/11 by an American who was ignorant of this distinction!

It's almost a truism to state that clothes are first and foremost, functional. Most, if not all, of the details of our jackets and trousers and other items can be traced back to activities which necessitated their adoption. The buttons on the back of a tailcoat, or the buttons on the collar of a button-down shirt can both be connected to the activity of riding a horse, for instance. The lapels on our suitcoats and sports jackets originated from the practice of unbuttoning and folding back the tops of military tunics to let in air. The list can go on.

So future demands on human activity will necessitate new designs that arise from new demands on our clothing. Already, we can see that a single year of pandemic-induced lockdown has shown the ditching of trousers by men, and the rise of sweatsuits (among men, and women too, perhaps). Who knows what events will shape our fashions in the next decade? Maybe the mask will become an article of clothing and new designs will arise for this "garment". Following the smallpox epidemic in England in the seventeenth century, men began wearing heavy makeup and even decorative beauty spots to hide the facial scars left by smallpox. An instance of fashion (like form) following function, perhaps?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

I agree that clothing has evolved and will continue to evolve, but I also believe that evolution is not always improvement. I believe that TNSIL clothing might have been the objective zenith. It is cut comfortably. It is made entirely of natural materials that are both renewable and compostable. It largely deviates from the churning cycles of the fashion industry. It embraces repair over replace, witness turned collars, patched elbows, and darned argyles. It embraces layering to address changes in temperature and humidity and levels of activity. Finally, for that element of the human soul that embraces beauty, there are the variations in fabrics (tweeds at the fore but do not forget flannels, moleskins, corduroys, twills, etc.), yarns (Shetland, cashmere, merino, lambswool, etc.), and the world of ties, squares, neckerchiefs, and scarves. While I admire the utilitarian side of post TNSIL clothing, it really has been moving from variety and texture.


----------



## drpeter

I just read this piece in Simon Crompton's blog, and it should be of interest to those who have been discussing ideas related to Ralph Lauren. It's about the design work that goes on each season in the company.

https://www.permanentstyle.com/2021/06/behind-the-scenes-the-design-work-at-ralph-lauren.html


----------



## Tweedlover

drpeter said:


> I just read this piece in Simon Crompton's blog, and it should be of interest to those who have been discussing ideas related to Ralph Lauren. It's about the design work that goes on each season in the company.
> 
> https://www.permanentstyle.com/2021/06/behind-the-scenes-the-design-work-at-ralph-lauren.html


Nice read.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Peak and Pine

Not often seen in a Ralph Lauren ad. Or any ad nowadays. This ran in England some time back.










I puffed for many years, been clean for six. Loved every thing about it especially the click of the Zippo and my silver plated case.


----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> Not often seen in a Ralph Lauren ad. Or any ad nowadays. This ran in England some time back.
> 
> View attachment 59725
> 
> 
> I puffed for many years, been clean for six. Loved every thing about it especially the click of the Zippo and my silver plated case.


Congrats on giving up those 'coughin nails.' It's not easy, or so I've been told, but it should greatly add years and quality to your life. I enjoy your viewpoints/opinions a great deal and frequently find myself learning from your experiences!


----------



## Oldsarge

I'm just strange enough to really like the look of shorts with a sport coat. And I've never even been to Bermuda!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Oldsarge said:


> I'm just strange enough to really like the look of shorts with a sport coat. And I've never even been to Bermuda!


I like the look, too. I went to a school that mandated coats and ties. Being in Virginia and in ancient digs without air conditioning, we were allowed to wear Bermudas once the weather was consistently in the eighties. The real challenge to wearing Bermudas is finding the right shoes and socks. Weejuns were ok. Tassel loafers were perfect. Longwings or desert boots looked wrong. Ankle length socks looked unfinished. OTCs ruled. Argyles, not surprisingly, brought on a lot of teasing. As to the best shorts, Madras and brightly colored solids were always great. Grey was not a good look for shorts, and neither were non-Madras plaids. Surprisingly, I do not recall anyone wearing seersucker or white.


----------



## never behind

TKI67 said:


> Which also means they will think of a suit or an odd jacket as an article of clothing to be avoided because of how uncomfortable and constricting it is with its high armholes and binding chest. All of this of course, is happening as the sack suit and odd jacket disappear. A sack jacket is an amazingly comfortable article of clothing. So that generation will also likely grow up not knowing how a suit or jacket can provide a microclimate for the wearer and pockets galore for all the things they may want to carry, a list that grows as one ages: wallet, pen(s), spare handkerchief, glasses, phone, and pocket knife being the basics but often Milk Bones for dogs, chocolates or caramels for children, Altoids, cough drops, a flask, a pipe with pouch of tobacco and pipe tool and matched...etc.
> 
> Of course in a warming world the portable microclimate is not needed. The tee-shirt suffices. The wallet may be very small since much of what used to be in it is now on the phone. No one uses pens anymore, especially fountain pens. No one carries a spare handkerchief. Lasik obviates the need for eyewear for many. The pocket knife is even disappearing. What's a pipe?


I am 47 and have used a fountain pen for the last 20 years, along with my leather briefcase. I've also slowly fallen in love with TNSIL style. The one thing I am looking forward to is passing on what I've learned to my son (who is 10) one day. I do realize I may be an anachronism.


----------



## Fading Fast

I think this is a dupe, but if not, thought it might provoke some responses.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> I think this is a dupe, but if not, thought it might provoke some responses.
> View attachment 59855


He found the perfect pocket square for that outfit. Well done!


----------



## drpeter

TKI67 said:


> He found the perfect pocket square for that outfit. Well done!


LOL, the shirt is full of pocket-sized squares, but they are all stitched together. So a pocket square tucked into the jacket pocket is very much a sight gag!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Oldsarge

Killer trousers!


----------



## Fading Fast

A Sunday visit from our favorite bear.


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Peak and Pine

Plain, but nice...










Plain, but awful...


----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 60209


I think I have a couple of copies of Salingers The Catcher In the Rye, hidden away somewhere in our book hoard. Also have a volume of Salinger's other works.  LOL.


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 60248


It must be true...sartorial rainbows really do exist!


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 60248


This picture reminds me of the description of the stacks of lovely shirts in _The Great Gatsby_, the ones sent over to Gatsby each season by a personal buyer in England. He throws them out on to the bed to impress Daisy when she tours his mansion. She sinks her head into the pile of shirts and weeps, saying that they are such beautiful shirts.

Like Gatsby, Ralph Lauren recast himself with a new identity and a new name. Scott Fitzgerald also said something haunting and sad and widely quoted and often misinterpreted, about there being no second acts in American lives (from the essay _My Lost City_ about New York's decline, which was to be proved wrong, and also in the unfinished novel _The Last Tycoon_). There are second and even third acts aplenty in American lives, and RL is but one example.

Clothes can often symbolize aspirations, and they can suggest one's movement from one social class to another. How real the change is, how fully the aspirant might inhabit the new class, and how desirable such a transition is, might all be matters open to debate. RL has created a small universe with his clothing, and he wants to tell us that we too can aspire to what Bruce Boyer calls the English Country House look or the old money look -- which many may regard as an end for which clothing is but one means. I think there is a point at which we adopt clothes for the qualities that they actually possess, rather than the things (like social class) that they stand in for. But that point is often occluded by the meanings people read into specific items and ensembles.

And the same clothes may have entirely different connotations. LOL, I used to bristle at the suggestion that I wear khaki trousers because I embrace the preppy look. I used to respond rather pointedly, that wearing khaki trousers was a tradition in my old country long before preppies adopted khakis (and we pronounce the word differently too). When I wear khakis, I honour a distinctly different (and military) tradition that has nothing to do with private schools, but it is hard for someone brought up in this society to see that. Oh well.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> It must be true...sartorial rainbows really do exist!


They do, indeed, but a diehard and hidebound TNSIL of my ilk would not wear seven or eight of them even if they did not have those blasted ponies.


----------



## Fading Fast

TKI67 said:


> They do, indeed, but a diehard and hidebound TNSIL of my ilk would not wear seven or eight of them even if they did not have those blasted ponies.


I can't swear to it, but I don't think I've ever owned an RL OCBD because I don't want the pony on it. I've owned plenty of his dress shirts (sans pony), but I don't think I've ever owned his OCBD.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> I can't swear to it, but I don't think I've ever owned an RL OCBD because I don't want the pony on it. I've owned plenty of his dress shirts (sans pony), but I don't think I've ever owned his OCBD.


Most of my OCBDs and Knit polos came from BB, but I have purchased a number of sport shirts with the small polo player embroideries from Ralph.. Tiny brand symbols are not a deal killer for me, but I do try to avoid them.


----------



## Oldsarge

Near as I can recall the only RL item I ever owned was a pair of embroidered socks. They were rather nice and no one ever looked at the emblems because they were under my cuffs however, as socks will, one disappeared in the dryer and hasn't been seen since.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Peak and Pine

Bad news sweater on a white guy...










Better on a Black guy?










No.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Wrong size sweater on leaning guy..










Ten minutes later...










Right size sweater on guy now upright and Brylcreem'ed...
.


----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> Bad news sweater on a white guy...
> 
> View attachment 60333
> 
> 
> Better on a Black guy?
> 
> View attachment 60334
> 
> 
> No.


That is a cardigan better left at home in either case described above.. That cardigan takes patchwork design to an almost nauseating extreme! ....and this from a guy who generally loves cardigans. LOL.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Peak and Pine said:


> Bad news sweater on a white guy...
> 
> View attachment 60333
> 
> 
> Better on a Black guy?
> 
> View attachment 60334
> 
> 
> No.


Pretty sure it was designed for a bear.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Peak and Pine

I'm not even sure this is Ralph, but let's pretend, our little gift to the Master because It's so much better than much of his recent stuff.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> That is a cardigan better left at home in either case described above.. That cardigan takes patchwork design to an almost nauseating extreme! ....and this from a guy who generally loves cardigans. LOL.


LOL, this is perhaps one reason why the Buddha advocated moderation in everything, even in cardigan design. Consider his robes: Plain and simple, no patterns whatsoever. Same with Jesus.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Peak and Pine

Not as opposed to meaningless crests as some here, but put your hand over it and glance at the rest. Posted because this seems a fine, among few, example of a tee with a blazer, probably because a blazer has a nautical heritage as does a blue striped tee.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 60475


The mixing of vests and jackets with patchwork Madras is nonsensical.


----------



## Peak and Pine

^^
Sort of a combo ad, traditional Ralph on the right, crazy Ralph on the left. Reposting with full pic so you can see more madras..


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph email over the weekend.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> From a Ralph email over the weekend.
> View attachment 60689
> View attachment 60690


Dear Ralph:

I realize that you served but two years in the US Army, way back in 1962 to 1964. However, I'm sure your Drill Sergeant whispered in your and your platoon mate's ears about the ills of putting one's hands in their pockets, about not properly positioning your shirt collar points, about honoring the integrity of your gig line, and oh so many other things I see ignored in the photos above. What the hell's wrong with you man...those DI's, by acclimation, are your mamas and papas....and I am not talking about that old singing group...I'm talking about your DI.

Son, you are dishonoring your mama and papa. Honor them by displaying and wearing your clothes properly! LOL.

Just a note from a fellow concerned veteran.:amazing:


----------



## Fading Fast

Two more from the recent Ralph email.


----------



## Fading Fast

And a bonus eyewear one:


----------



## drpeter

Nice-looking trench coat.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Nice-looking trench coat.


I have "Out of the Past" from 1947 on in the background now with Mitchum wearing this cool trench coat:


----------



## drpeter

A classic noir film! I have seen it a couple of times. The coat looks as if it has been well-worn -- very authentic. Good production values for this film!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 60812


Nice rig...all around, assuming of course that Joe Cool is wearing socks to cover those ankles. He appears to be doing so?


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Nice rig...all around, assuming of course that Joe Cool is wearing socks to cover those ankles. He appears to be doing so?


I liked it too. I, personally, am not wearing a yellow pair of pants with a leather jacket, but darn if he doesn't look good in them. Can't tell Re the socks. Love the saddles and Fair Isle.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 60896


I like what I am seeing....a rig that may fit closely, but it also appears to fit the fellow wearing it. Also, I must be getting used to the neckerchief tucked under the shirt collar like that. It looks good in this shot.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I like what I am seeing....a rig that may fit closely, but it also appears to fit the fellow wearing it. Also, I must be getting used to the neckerchief tucked under the shirt collar like that. It looks good in this shot.


While I like the look of the neckerchief here, there is nowhere in my life where I could ever where a neckerchief like that and not look affected, ditto bowtie, ditto fedora, ditto spats.

Sans neckerchief, that rig is something I'd gladly where. It's a perfect way to not wear a sport coat and collared shirt, but still look nicely dressed for a dinner out or some other not dress-up event where you still want to look thoughtfully and nicely attired.

This pic is from the current Ralph offerings with the following stunning me for a second. Notice the way the line of the door in the background makes it almost look like the model is holding a cigarette in his left hand. To be sure, he isn't, but for one second, it shocked me as you haven't seen that in an ad in, wild guess, forty-plus years.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> While I like the look of the neckerchief here, there is nowhere in my life where I could ever where a neckerchief like that and not look affected, ditto bowtie, ditto fedora, ditto spats.
> 
> Sans neckerchief, that rig is something I'd gladly where. It's a perfect way to not wear a sport coat and collared shirt, but still look nicely dressed for a dinner out or some other not dress-up event where you still want to look thoughtfully and nicely attired.
> 
> This pic is from the current Ralph offerings with the following stunning me for a second. Notice the way the line of the door in the background makes it almost look like the model is holding a cigarette in his left hand. To be sure, he isn't, but for one second, it shocked me as you haven't seen that in an ad in, wild guess, forty-plus years.


I think there is a (perhaps subtle) factor at work here. _We_ may think that a certain article of clothing could make us look affected or pretentious _in the eyes of others_ - like an ascot or a bowtie or a fedora. But we can't be sure, unless we check with those people in advance about their feelings on such articles of clothing, or have actually heard them comment adversely on people in their midst wearing ascots, bowties and so on. Perhaps we might be overthinking things. Two examples:

When I first started wearing bowties, very rarely seen then even in a college environment, I had almost uniformly positive reactions from students and colleagues alike. I was a bit worried that it might seem odd or foppish. But all it did was make me stand out from other necktie wearers, and in a good way. It's possible there were people who thought all bowtie wearers were fops, but if so, that was their problem, not mine!

A second example involves a Gurkha jungle hat I have (this one is similar to the Aussie bush hat with one side of the brim that can be snapped to the crown of the hat). I wore it, appropriately with a bush shirt/jacket first, then with an M-65 Army jacket -- and khakis. Again, because that type of hat was not commonly seen, I thought folks might see it as strange. Once again, the comments were uniformly positive, and many folks asked me about its origins and where they could get hold of one.

Perhaps you can do a test run with the neckerchief in a small circle of close friends and see what they say.


----------



## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> I think there is a (perhaps subtle) factor at work here. _We_ may think that a certain article of clothing could make us look affected or pretentious _in the eyes of others_ - like an ascot or a bowtie or a fedora. But we can't be sure, unless we check with those people in advance about their feelings on such articles of clothing, or have actually heard them comment adversely on people in their midst wearing ascots, bowties and so on. Perhaps we might be overthinking things. Two examples:
> 
> When I first started wearing bowties, very rarely seen then even in a college environment, I had almost uniformly positive reactions from students and colleagues alike. I was a bit worried that it might seem odd or foppish. But all it did was make me stand out from other necktie wearers, and in a good way. It's possible there were people who thought all bowtie wearers were fops, but if so, that was their problem, not mine!
> 
> A second example involves a Gurkha jungle hat I have (this one is similar to the Aussie bush hat with one side of the brim that can be snapped to the crown of the hat). I wore it, appropriately with a bush shirt/jacket first, then with an M-65 Army jacket -- and khakis. Again, because that type of hat was not commonly seen, I thought folks might see it as strange. Once again, the comments were uniformly positive, and many folks asked me about its origins and where they could get hold of one.
> 
> Perhaps you can do a test run with the neckerchief in a small circle of close friends and see what they say


A couple of times in the past month or so I have worn a neckerchief tied under the collar of my fishing shirts and it does rather effectively keep the sweat from moistening the collar and yolk of my shirts. Neckerchiefs do seem to be functional, here in Florida's humid heat!


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 60839


Paint splattered pants don't look good on anyone, even painters.


----------



## Fading Fast

Tweedlover said:


> Paint splattered pants don't look good on anyone, even painters.


I don't understand the paint-splatters pants nor the pre-rippped ones.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> I don't understand the paint-splatters pants nor the pre-rippped ones.


There is a way of understanding these trends. I've mentioned this before, so I won't belabour the point: There is a general trend that is best described by a term I just coined, for what it's worth: the _gentrification of poverty_. This is a trend that seems evident in some areas of the clothing market. Wearing tattered or damaged clothing, especially items like blue jeans, is a way of saying that those of us who can afford clean, undamaged clothes, are still willing to value the damaged, "distressed" clothes of the very poor. This can be construed to be a genuine sentiment, a fellow-feeling for the less fortunate. But it can also be taken as cynical exploitation -- the very rags of the unfortunate are mimicked by those more fortunate, a sort of mockery of their distress. Even the word _distressed_ is telling: It does not just mean physical damage, it also signals mental anguish, doesn't it?

A good example of the gentrification of poverty is the use of _boro_ cloth in Japan. It is widely prized and people use it to make various articles of clothing. It is generally made out of a working-class blue cloth and numerous stitches are also put into the cloth, to mimic repairs. There is also an aesthetic aspect to _boro _cloth, an appreciation of its artistic features, the aesthetics of imperfection. Perhaps that sensibility is operating with ripped and paint-splattered jeans. One of my friends had a pair of cutoff jeans that he wore for decades, and then, when it was too ripped up to be worn, framed it and hung the thing on the wall of his den! Marcel Duchamp might have approved.

Here's the interesting thing, though: One sees people wearing ripped up jeans, but one never sees people wearing ripped up suits! Or even sports jackets or dress trousers. (I think we recently saw a photograph of Ralph Lauren in a torn sports jacket, but that is really an advertising gimmick). It is usually an item of clothing like jeans, worn by people who work at ordinary jobs, often outdoor jobs like gardening, painting, construction or repair. This fact supports my theory about the gentrification of poverty. It is the item of clothing worn by the poor, or working-class folks that are ripped up intentionally and worn by those who are not working-class -- or poor, for that matter!


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 60944


What is embroidered on those corduroys? I used to have a pair of darker tan hued cords, embroidered with black Scottish Terriers that got the attention of the ladies on pretty much every occasion that I wore them. Has there ever been a better reason to make a purchase> LOL.


----------



## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> There is a way of understanding these trends. I've mentioned this before, so I won't belabour the point: There is a general trend that is best described by a term I just coined, for what it's worth: the _gentrification of poverty_. This is a trend that seems evident in some areas of the clothing market. Wearing tattered or damaged clothing, especially items like blue jeans, is a way of saying that those of us who can afford clean, undamaged clothes, are still willing to value the damaged, "distressed" clothes of the very poor. This can be construed to be a genuine sentiment, a fellow-feeling for the less fortunate. But it can also be taken as cynical exploitation -- the very rags of the unfortunate are mimicked by those more fortunate, a sort of mockery of their distress. Even the word _distressed_ is telling: It does not just mean physical damage, it also signals mental anguish, doesn't it?
> 
> A good example of the gentrification of poverty is the use of _boro_ cloth in Japan. It is widely prized and people use it to make various articles of clothing. It is generally made out of a working-class blue cloth and numerous stitches are also put into the cloth, to mimic repairs. There is also an aesthetic aspect to boro cloth, an appreciation of its artistic features, the aesthetics of imperfection. Perhaps that sensibility is operating with ripped and paint-splattered jeans. One of my friends had a pair of cutoff jeans that he wore for decades, and then, when it was too ripped up to be worn, framed it and hung the thing on the wall of his den! Marcel Duchamp might have approved.
> 
> Here's the interesting thing, though: One sees people wearing ripped up jeans, but one never sees people wearing ripped up suits! Or even sports jackets or dress trousers. (I think we recently saw a photograph of Ralph Lauren in a torn sports jacket, but that is really an advertising gimmick). It is usually an item of clothing like jeans, worn by people who work at ordinary jobs, often outdoor jobs like gardening, painting, construction or repair. This fact supports my theory about the gentrification of poverty. It is the item of clothing worn by the poor, or working-class folks that are ripped up intentionally and worn by those who are not working-class -- or poor, for that matter!


An excellent and very well written sartorial theory, my friend. Thought provoking for sure!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> There is a way of understanding these trends. I've mentioned this before, so I won't belabour the point: There is a general trend that is best described by a term I just coined, for what it's worth: the _gentrification of poverty_. This is a trend that seems evident in some areas of the clothing market. Wearing tattered or damaged clothing, especially items like blue jeans, is a way of saying that those of us who can afford clean, undamaged clothes, are still willing to value the damaged, "distressed" clothes of the very poor. This can be construed to be a genuine sentiment, a fellow-feeling for the less fortunate. But it can also be taken as cynical exploitation -- the very rags of the unfortunate are mimicked by those more fortunate, a sort of mockery of their distress. Even the word _distressed_ is telling: It does not just mean physical damage, it also signals mental anguish, doesn't it?
> 
> A good example of the gentrification of poverty is the use of _boro_ cloth in Japan. It is widely prized and people use it to make various articles of clothing. It is generally made out of a working-class blue cloth and numerous stitches are also put into the cloth, to mimic repairs. There is also an aesthetic aspect to boro cloth, an appreciation of its artistic features, the aesthetics of imperfection. Perhaps that sensibility is operating with ripped and paint-splattered jeans. One of my friends had a pair of cutoff jeans that he wore for decades, and then, when it was too ripped up to be worn, framed it and hung the thing on the wall of his den! Marcel Duchamp might have approved.
> 
> Here's the interesting thing, though: One sees people wearing ripped up jeans, but one never sees people wearing ripped up suits! Or even sports jackets or dress trousers. (I think we recently saw a photograph of Ralph Lauren in a torn sports jacket, but that is really an advertising gimmick). It is usually an item of clothing like jeans, worn by people who work at ordinary jobs, often outdoor jobs like gardening, painting, construction or repair. This fact supports my theory about the gentrification of poverty. It is the item of clothing worn by the poor, or working-class folks that are ripped up intentionally and worn by those who are not working-class -- or poor, for that matter!


Although it never got to wearing ripped up suits, I certainly recall wearing them well into the state of frayed cuffs on trousers and jackets and thin, shiny knees! I also recall small rips and signs of wear on the front trouser pockets, probably from snagging keys.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> There is a way of understanding these trends. I've mentioned this before, so I won't belabour the point: There is a general trend that is best described by a term I just coined, for what it's worth: the _gentrification of poverty_. This is a trend that seems evident in some areas of the clothing market. Wearing tattered or damaged clothing, especially items like blue jeans, is a way of saying that those of us who can afford clean, undamaged clothes, are still willing to value the damaged, "distressed" clothes of the very poor. This can be construed to be a genuine sentiment, a fellow-feeling for the less fortunate. But it can also be taken as cynical exploitation -- the very rags of the unfortunate are mimicked by those more fortunate, a sort of mockery of their distress. Even the word _distressed_ is telling: It does not just mean physical damage, it also signals mental anguish, doesn't it?
> 
> A good example of the gentrification of poverty is the use of _boro_ cloth in Japan. It is widely prized and people use it to make various articles of clothing. It is generally made out of a working-class blue cloth and numerous stitches are also put into the cloth, to mimic repairs. There is also an aesthetic aspect to boro cloth, an appreciation of its artistic features, the aesthetics of imperfection. Perhaps that sensibility is operating with ripped and paint-splattered jeans. One of my friends had a pair of cutoff jeans that he wore for decades, and then, when it was too ripped up to be worn, framed it and hung the thing on the wall of his den! Marcel Duchamp might have approved.
> 
> Here's the interesting thing, though: One sees people wearing ripped up jeans, but one never sees people wearing ripped up suits! Or even sports jackets or dress trousers. (I think we recently saw a photograph of Ralph Lauren in a torn sports jacket, but that is really an advertising gimmick). It is usually an item of clothing like jeans, worn by people who work at ordinary jobs, often outdoor jobs like gardening, painting, construction or repair. This fact supports my theory about the gentrification of poverty. It is the item of clothing worn by the poor, or working-class folks that are ripped up intentionally and worn by those who are not working-class -- or poor, for that matter!


Thank you. I have read your similar insightful comments in the past and it certainly seems like part of the story. Or, IMO, the start of the story as I think there was a time this was what was going on, but now, I think it's more just "a thing" that has become part of the inconstant fashion world or fashion for fashion's sake.

From the '60s into the '70s, I believe what you describe was a part of the explanation from solidarity with the working class or poor for some to bragging about their wealth for others. Today, some of the clearly expensive "distressed" items are still a bragging thing, but I don't think there's much "solidarity" left. As again, just my opinion, I think today it's mainly just a silly fashion thing.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> An excellent and very well written sartorial theory, my friend. Thought provoking for sure!


Thank you, dear Eagle. I am glad you like my theory.


----------



## drpeter

Vecchio Vespa said:


> Although it never got to wearing ripped up suits, I certainly recall wearing them well into the state of frayed cuffs on trousers and jackets and thin, shiny knees! I also recall small rips and signs of wear on the front trouser pockets, probably from snagging keys.


In this respect, you have good company. I recollect reading that Ian Fleming used to wear his suits until they were thin and threadbare, although his creation, James Bond, was usually attired in clothes that, as far as we can tell from the books, were in fine order. I can remember only one description in _Moonraker_, where there is a hint of wear: Fleming describes one of Bond's suits as a "battered black-and-white dogtooth".


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 60980


Why oh why would anyone ever pair a Patch Tweed jacket with a cream hued Tennis Sweater or with a white pair of walking shorts. Ralph, you owe us an explanation!


----------



## Tweedlover

eagle2250 said:


> Why oh why would anyone ever pair a Patch Tweed jacket with a cream hued Tennis Sweater or with a white pair of walking shorts. Ralph, you owe us an explanation!


Wearing any kind of sport coat with shorts has always looked odd to me. If it's warm enough for shorts, seems it would be too warn for a jacket.


----------



## 215339

drpeter said:


> There is a way of understanding these trends. I've mentioned this before, so I won't belabour the point: There is a general trend that is best described by a term I just coined, for what it's worth: the _gentrification of poverty_. This is a trend that seems evident in some areas of the clothing market. Wearing tattered or damaged clothing, especially items like blue jeans, is a way of saying that those of us who can afford clean, undamaged clothes, are still willing to value the damaged, "distressed" clothes of the very poor. This can be construed to be a genuine sentiment, a fellow-feeling for the less fortunate. But it can also be taken as cynical exploitation -- the very rags of the unfortunate are mimicked by those more fortunate, a sort of mockery of their distress. Even the word _distressed_ is telling: It does not just mean physical damage, it also signals mental anguish, doesn't it?
> 
> A good example of the gentrification of poverty is the use of _boro_ cloth in Japan. It is widely prized and people use it to make various articles of clothing. It is generally made out of a working-class blue cloth and numerous stitches are also put into the cloth, to mimic repairs. There is also an aesthetic aspect to _boro _cloth, an appreciation of its artistic features, the aesthetics of imperfection. Perhaps that sensibility is operating with ripped and paint-splattered jeans. One of my friends had a pair of cutoff jeans that he wore for decades, and then, when it was too ripped up to be worn, framed it and hung the thing on the wall of his den! Marcel Duchamp might have approved.
> 
> Here's the interesting thing, though: One sees people wearing ripped up jeans, but one never sees people wearing ripped up suits! Or even sports jackets or dress trousers. (I think we recently saw a photograph of Ralph Lauren in a torn sports jacket, but that is really an advertising gimmick). It is usually an item of clothing like jeans, worn by people who work at ordinary jobs, often outdoor jobs like gardening, painting, construction or repair. This fact supports my theory about the gentrification of poverty. It is the item of clothing worn by the poor, or working-class folks that are ripped up intentionally and worn by those who are not working-class -- or poor, for that matter!


I love boro cloth, patchwork and the like. There is a cultural unease that we're 'taking' or appropriating clothing from other cultures and the less fortunate and not necessarily giving back.

I've taken the stance of just wearing what you like. There is an international exchange of textiles and cultures spanning centuries, and generally has lead to better aesthetics.

Here are some pieces of clothing I would love to own


----------



## drpeter

@delicious_scent , my philosophy of clothing is similar to yours. I wear what pleases me, and I don't worry about cultural appropriation or solidarity with the unfortunate, or association with the obscenely rich. Nor do I worry about associations with any specific style of clothing. While most of the things I wear happen to come under the broad aegis of Trad, I am fine if some of my clothes don't.

I have spent enough time in my seventy years in enough societies and cultures East and West (and even North and South) for me to have acquired the license to wear what I please. My taste in these matters was built up over time, and generally based on quality, cut and style that I found pleasing. At the end of the day, that's really all that matters. As long as I do not pretend to belong to a group or class that I don't actually belong to, I think I am "dressing with integrity", LOL.


----------



## Oldsarge

In accordance with drpeter's sartorial these, I recall the phrase 'radical chic' from back in the 70's which encompassed not only the distressed jeans but also the Che Guevara T-shirts. It didn't take long before that silly image spread to people who had no idea who Che Guevara was and even those who did seemed to not catch just what a bloodthirsty butcher he was. Even Fidel got tired of him and that (so I hear) was how he got sent to Bolivia where the peasantry wanted nothing to do with him and gave away his hideout to the Bolivian army.


----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph email yesterday.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> From a Ralph email yesterday.
> View attachment 61007


Standing on their own, the knit maize and navy polo shirts are pretty nice, the bright white chinos are doable and the pin stripe navy pants have got to go. However the gentlemen sitting on the back of 'His Royal Hiney's' throne and/or resting the soles of one's shoes in the seat of said throne is an inexcusable abomination of proper house manners. To the two young nere-do-wells in the photo above..."didn't your respective mama's teach you nothing? Your options are sit in the chair properly or stand up." LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## 215339

drpeter said:


> @delicious_scent , my philosophy of clothing is similar to yours. I wear what pleases me, and I don't worry about cultural appropriation or solidarity with the unfortunate, or association with the obscenely rich. Nor do I worry about associations with any specific style of clothing. While most of the things I wear happen to come under the broad aegis of Trad, I am fine if some of my clothes don't.
> 
> I have spent enough time in my seventy years in enough societies and cultures East and West (and even North and South) for me to have acquired the license to wear what I please. My taste in these matters was built up over time, and generally based on quality, cut and style that I found pleasing. At the end of the day, that's really all that matters. As long as I do not pretend to belong to a group or class that I don't actually belong to, I think I am "dressing with integrity", LOL.


Life is a lot more fun when you dress this way.

Pretending to belong to a group or class reminds of the interesting topic of "authenticity".

Growing up, wearing skater shoes or basketball shoes was seen as "not authentic" if you didn't actually play those sports.

It seems like society cares less about these explicitly 'authentic' gatekeeping rituals, and it's for the better IMO.


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 61069


Have seldom seen patchwork sport coats I like and this isn't 1 of them.


----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph email yesterday. Not a fan of the "flashing" pictures. I like the light-trouser outfit one (or what I can see of it as it flashes by).


----------



## drpeter

I've never seen the point of these flashing pictures! What is their purpose? If an advert is supposed to help you look at a product that is being sold and appreciate its qualities, why make it look like a Baz Luhrmann movie? What's more, it irritates the viewer rather than disposing him to like it.

Sometimes one can stop the flashing to inspect the image, but apparently your version here does not permit that.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> I've never seen the point of these flashing pictures! What is their purpose? If an advert is supposed to help you look at a product that is being sold and appreciate its qualities, why make it look like a Baz Luhrmann movie? What's morem it irritates the viewer rather than disposing him to like it.
> 
> Sometimes one can stop the flashing to inspect the image, but apparently your version here does not permit that.


I agree completely, it's irritating. As you said, sometimes, at least, you can stop them, but like you, I couldn't find a way with this one. (As you imply, it's also why I like the '74 version of "The Great Gatsby" so much more.)


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> I agree completely, it's irritating. As you said, sometimes, at least, you can stop them, but like you, I couldn't find a way with this one. (As you imply, it's also why I like the '74 version of "The Great Gatsby" so much more.)


I liked the book better.

😜


----------



## Fading Fast

Vecchio Vespa said:


> I liked the book better.
> 
> 😜


Since I first read it as an assignment back in 9th grade in '78, I've read it, at least, ten times since. I don't think there's another book I've read more times.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Since I first read it as an assignment back in 9th grade in '78, I've read it, at least, ten times since. I don't think there's another book I've read more times.


It surpassed the Bible? The Old Testament is frightfully good, you know.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> It surpassed the Bible? The Old Testament is frightfully good, you know.


Having grown up without religion, I didn't read the bible until I was an adult. It is an amazing story, but I've only tackled it in full that one time.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> Having grown up without religion, I didn't read the bible until I was an adult. It is an amazing story, but I've only tackled it in full that one time.


I became an atheist at 14, and have not seen the need to change my views. Nevertheless, I read in the various texts of different religions in my youth, just to be well-informed.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Old Road Dog

Some of this stuff makes my eyes hurt. Ralph is starting to lose me......

My suspicion is that Ralph Lauren, the man, probably has little to do with what we see here. He's advanced in age; has dozens of minions that do the actual work; and uses the network of outlet stores to generate cash flow. He has five homes and and a fabulous car collection to maintain.


----------



## FiscalDean

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 61160


I have to wonder what these models are thinking while they get ready for the actual shoot. Possibly something along the lines of "at last I don't have to wear a big red nose". Hopefully they're well compensated.


----------



## Fading Fast

FiscalDean said:


> I have to wonder what these models are thinking while they get ready for the actual shoot. Possibly something along the lines of "at last I don't have to wear a big red nose". Hopefully they're well compensated.


It's a pretty tough and competitive field where most struggle to make a living because most struggle to get enough work, The top tier does very well and, then, there's another layer that does pretty well as, while not a "name," those in that layer are in demand (usually because they have the right look for the moment), but the rest compete for not-enough jobs. Plus, it's hard to sustain a modeling career for a long time and, when it's over, what do you do?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Old Road Dog said:


> Some of this stuff makes my eyes hurt. Ralph is starting to lose me......
> 
> My suspicion is that Ralph Lauren, the man, probably has little to do with what we see here. He's advanced in age; has dozens of minions that do the actual work; and uses the network of outlet stores to generate cash flow. He has five homes and and a fabulous car collection to maintain.


Ralph lost me aeons ago. I loved his look when he was obtaining tweeds no one else could obtain, offering tassel loafers with braided trim, using richly colored plaids, and putting together outfits that simultaneously conveyed both ivy and British country but with more panache than either. Now his outfits look as if he raided the clothing donation drop off box in an affluent neighborhood and handed it to a random group of skaters to assemble. What does that say about the state of our world that such a business model charges prices that make O'Connell's prices look like Filene's basement?


----------



## eagle2250

FiscalDean said:


> I have to wonder what these models are thinking while they get ready for the actual shoot. Possibly something along the lines of "at last I don't have to wear a big red nose". Hopefully they're well compensated.


Agreed.....and Iwould add I'll bet todays model is thinking to himself, 'boy, I can't wait to get these "sack crusher fit" trousers off!' LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph email yesterday.


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> From a Ralph email yesterday.
> View attachment 61220
> View attachment 61221


Tying a sweater around the waist with that sport jacket actually destroys the look. But RL seems to have a thing with tying sweaters on models without functional need for 1.


----------



## Fading Fast

Tweedlover said:


> Tying a sweater around the waist with that sport jacket actually destroys the look. But RL seems to have a thing with tying sweaters on models without functional need for 1.


I agree with you. I think it was @eagle2250 who said it a long time ago, it's probably about nothing more than Ralph wanting to show you more things you can buy (it's the same reason he usually has the sweater tucked above the belt and buckle as those are two more things you can buy).


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Tweedlover

A big yes to everything in 


Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 61268


A big yes to everything in the photo except the pile of bear sweaters.


----------



## eagle2250

Tweedlover said:


> A big yes to everything in
> 
> A big yes to everything in the photo except the pile of bear sweaters.


....and the Polo Player embroidered baseball cap would have to go, as well.


----------



## Fading Fast

Tweedlover said:


> A big yes to everything in
> 
> A big yes to everything in the photo except the pile of bear sweaters.


Agreed - I love those chukkas in particular.

This guy, is not happy with you though.











eagle2250 said:


> ....and the Polo Player embroidered baseball cap would have to go, as well.


Good point.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> Agreed - I love those chukkas in particular.
> 
> This guy, is not happy with you though.
> View attachment 61280
> 
> 
> Good point.


If I were going to wear a cap with Ralph's polo pony logo, I prefer this patterned look to the single, centered polo pony. It is sort of a cap and polo pony riff on critter pants. However, I'll stick with Tilleys and, on the course, my Titleist cap (Navy with the small script logo. I believe they called it the Nantucket.)


----------



## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 61268


I'm a big fan of color but that's a bit much, even for me.


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Tweedlover

Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 61306


Love the belt but I wouldn't be able to pull it off.


----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph email yesterday.


----------



## eagle2250

Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 61306


The man is comfortable in his own skin and hence, there is not a thing "put-on" about that rig. Ralph is definitely wearing those clothes and not the other way around...no doubt about it!


----------



## FiscalDean

Tweedlover said:


> Love the belt but I wouldn't be able to pull it off.


Anyone could pull it off if standing in the middle of their 100,000 acre ranch!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 61360


The jacket, absent the pocket emblem, the shirt and the tie are all pretty nice, but below the waist, the belt is the only thing that merits a good look. Those trousers are due for a trip to the trash bin.


----------



## Tweedlover

Yeah, looks like a pen le


eagle2250 said:


> The jacket, absent the pocket emblem, the shirt and the tie are all pretty nice, but below the waist, the belt is the only thing that merits a good look. Those trousers are due for a trip to the trash bin.


Looks like a pen leaked in his pocket.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 61382


This is one of the best Ralph rigs I have seen in quite awhile. The neckerchief is a nice finishing touch. I've got this growing urge to get out and buy a couple more neckerchief options.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> This is one of the best Ralph rigs I have seen in quite awhile. The neckerchief is a nice finishing touch. I've got this growing urge to get out and buy a couple more neckerchief options.


You have very good taste. That outfit is from his current Purple Label line and you can see the quality in the clothes in the pic.


----------



## Old Road Dog

I had those Gurkha style pants as khaki shorts back when Willis & Geiger was _the_ source for tasteful safari wear. If you don't know it, Abercrombie & Fitch distributed the line for Burt Avedon in the 70's. You guys would have loved what they did, and the quality was great. Vintage pieces are still available on the 'bay.


----------



## Fading Fast

Staying with Purple Label.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Staying with Purple Label.
> View attachment 61422


A nice rig that woud be much nicer without the sweater tucked in at the waist. The watch has a nice look to it.


----------



## Tweedlover

eagle2250 said:


> A nice rig that woud be much nicer without the sweater tucked in at the waist. The watch has a nice look to it.


I suspect he's wearing the $30,000+ watch RL was hawking.


----------



## Fading Fast

Tweedlover said:


> I suspect he's wearing the $30,000+ watch RL was hawking.


 That's only $29,750 more than the most expensive watch I ever bought for myself.


----------



## Fading Fast

One more day of Purple Label.


----------



## drpeter

Old Road Dog said:


> I had those Gurkha style pants as khaki shorts back when Willis & Geiger was _the_ source for tasteful safari wear. If you don't know it, Abercrombie & Fitch distributed the line for Burt Avedon in the 70's. You guys would have loved what they did, and the quality was great. Vintage pieces are still available on the 'bay.


I have several Willis and Geiger pieces, including a polo-style pullover and a bush jacket. Great stuff, good-looking and hard-wearing.


----------



## 215339

Fading Fast said:


> From a Ralph email yesterday.
> View attachment 61327
> View attachment 61328
> View attachment 61329


I love these, unique pairings that work well for once.


eagle2250 said:


> A nice rig that woud be much nicer without the sweater tucked in at the waist. The watch has a nice look to it.


I disagree there, a sweater tucked in to pants has the same benefits as tucking in a shirt.

It looks relatively more tailored.


----------



## Tweedlover

delicious_scent said:


> I love these, unique pairings that work well for once.
> 
> I disagree there, a sweater tucked in to pants has the same benefits as tucking in a shirt.
> 
> It looks relatively more tailored.


While I don't generally tuck my sweaters in, I have 1 that is too long and looks much better tucked in. Also tuck in my knit long-sleeved polos.


----------



## 215339

Tweedlover said:


> While I don't generally tuck my sweaters in, I have 1 that is too long and looks much better tucked in. Also tuck in my knit long-sleeved polos.


I have issues with things catching on my hips, and it just looks sloppy.

Agreed on tucking in knit long sleeve polos as well.


----------



## drpeter

If a sweater, which is usually somewhat thick, gets tucked in, one should be wearing trousers with a little extra space in the waist, shouldn't one?

Personally, I am comfortable with sweaters and knit polos being untucked and outside the waist of the trousers, in the usual fashion. Even the few longer or looser ones I have -- but I am an old chap, and I am happy with the way I dress at all times, LOL.


----------



## Tweedlover

And here I thought RL charging $30,000 for a watch was outrageous. https://www.ralphlauren.com/brands-...&start=1&cgid=brands-purple-label-pre-fall-cg


----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph email yesterday.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> From a Ralph email yesterday.
> View attachment 61514


Nice garments, each and every one, but that knit cardigan and the waistcoat should not be worn as part of the same rig. Just saying.....


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Nice garments, each and every one, but that knit cardigan and the waistcoat should not be worn as part of the same rig. Just saying.....


I try to be open to new pairings etc., but I thought that looked awkward and forced too.


----------



## Old Road Dog

Differances in opinions is what makes horse races: I would totally buy the rig shown, provided I had the money, and the place to wear it; of which I have neither.


----------



## drpeter

Using tonal differences of the same basic color in creating a good ensemble can be quite dicey. Sometimes some people bring it off really well. At other times, they don't and the ensemble works poorly.

IMHO, shades of the same basic colour can be combined if there is a difference in some other element -- and the most obvious ones are texture and pattern. An example: If a light beige (almost white) shirt that has a smooth broadcloth finish is combined with a slightly darker beige cable-knit sweater or cardigan, and a pair of mid-olive trousers, the combination could work well. One could use texture differences in the garments that lie next to each other, and then use a bit of contrast in the garment that is displaced farther from the body, namely the trousers, to create a nice ensemble.

One could also place a single dark brown grenadine tie in the middle of the shirt and sweater to balance things out and create a drawing point for the eye of the beholder -- and LOL, we know where beauty lies, don't we?


----------



## Fading Fast

Old Road Dog said:


> Differances in opinions is what makes horse races: I would totally buy the rig shown, provided I had the money, and the place to wear it; of which I have neither.


Agreed, different tastes and all. Also, I hear ya on the money, that's always a challenge, but the second point, where to wear it, is an equal problem today as whatever I seem to do, from business meetings to Zoom calls to social events, all I hear is "don't dress up / be as casual as you like / etc." Sure, once in a awhile, I'll have some reason to put on dress trousers and a sport coat, but I have plenty of those clothes for the rare time I need to wear them, so I can't, in any way, justify buying more. I wish it was different.


----------



## drpeter

Yours truly appears to have thrown justification to the winds. It is all an exercise of pure id, as Sigmund might say.


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> Agreed, different tastes and all. Also, I hear ya on the money, that's always a challenge, but the second point, where to wear it, is an equal problem today as whatever I seem to do, from business meetings to Zoom calls to social events, all I hear is "don't dress up / be as casual as you like / etc." Sure, once in a awhile, I'll have some reason to put on dress trousers and a sport coat, but I have plenty of those clothes for the rare time I need to wear them, so I can't, in any way, justify buying more. I wish it was different.


I'm retired so now it's a moot point. But, when I worked professionally, I almost always work a suit or sport coat and tie or cardigans and ties. Would periodically get the why are you so dressed up question. I, of course, dressed to please me, though will say that some of my colleagues certainly fell short of my personal standard for dress in a professional health care setting.


----------



## Fading Fast

Cross post with the Tweed thread.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Cross post with the Tweed thread.
> View attachment 61528


I love the Tweed coat, the blue OCBD and (I think) even the tie., but that embroidered sweater should remain in the closets of no man over the grand old age of 10 years, at most! Most adult males have better sense than to wear something like that.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I love the Tweed coat, the blue OCBD and (I think) even the tie., but that embroidered sweater should remain in the closets of no man over the grand old age of 10 years, at most! Most adult males have better sense than to wear something like that.


As we've chatted about here at AAAC before, that bear sweater is hard to understand. For years (well over a decade now), I've seen it in the store (piles of them) and on the website - so they must be selling it to someone. Yet, in all that time and living in a city where people dress (or used to), I've only seen it once and it was on an elderly gentleman sitting with his family in an airport at Christmas. Ralph makes them every year, but who buys them?

Away from that enigma, I, too, like the coat as it looks very well made.


----------



## 215339

Fading Fast said:


> Cross post with the Tweed thread.
> View attachment 61528


The bear always makes me smile, so I'm a fan. Get rid of the giant crown and 'polo' lettering and I'd wear that sweater.

It looks plain fun and doesn't take itself too seriously.


----------



## Fading Fast

delicious_scent said:


> The bear always makes me smile, so I'm a fan. Get rid of the giant crown and 'polo' lettering and I'd wear that sweater.
> 
> It looks plain fun and doesn't take itself too seriously.


I've mentioned this before, on deep sale, I've bought the bear on T-shirts and sweatshirts that I wear around the apartment (and down to the apartment building's laundry room, gym, etc.).

I like the fun Ralph has with him and that he dresses him up; I just wouldn't buy an expensive item with the bear on it and wear it as part of a nice "going out" outfit.

In my stack of regular T-shirts and sweatshirts I have these guys (web pics as I'm too lazy to get mine out and take pics):






















I haven't done it in a few years, but I used to watch Ralph's site closely for the "real" sales when you could buy these items 70% or more off.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## ran23

That might be my new PNW look.


----------



## 215339

Fading Fast said:


> I've mentioned this before, on deep sale, I've bought the bear on T-shirts and sweatshirts that I wear around the apartment (and down to the apartment building's laundry room, gym, etc.).
> 
> I like the fun Ralph has with him and that he dresses him up; I just wouldn't buy an expensive item with the bear on it and wear it as part of a nice "going out" outfit.
> 
> In my stack of regular T-shirts and sweatshirts I have these guys (web pics as I'm too lazy to get mine out and take pics):
> View attachment 61586
> View attachment 61590
> View attachment 61588
> 
> I haven't done it in a few years, but I used to watch Ralph's site closely for the "real" sales when you could buy these items 70% or more off.


Oh man, these shirts and sweaters are pretty much exactly what I was thinking of! Awesome that you were able to grab them on sale.

On the expense topic, I look to Ralph as a source of inspiration, rather than actually buying from the brand. Everything is generally too much for me.

There are certain items I may splurge on though eventually, such as Patchworks coats and RRL Handknit Cardigans.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Old Road Dog

This one got my attention. I'm curious about the vintage of this ad, as the lapel width looks more generous, like Polo of old, but the composition feels feels current.


----------



## Fading Fast

Old Road Dog said:


> This one got my attention. I'm curious about the vintage of this ad, as the lapel width looks more generous, like Polo of old, but the composition feels feels current.


I agree. I found it on Pinterest without any date, but my guess is it's pretty current despite the wide lapel owing to, as you note, the modern feel of the combo and individual pieces. I've noticed over the years Ralph will put out a wide lapel or pair of pleated pants here or there against vogue, so that's not as odd for him as it seems.


----------



## eagle2250

ran23 said:


> That might be my new PNW look.


....but have them hem your pant cuffs about an inch and a half lower and keep your paws out of your pocket, my friend. We just can't have any of us picking up Ralph's bad habits! LOL.


----------



## eagle2250

delicious_scent said:


> Oh man, these shirts and sweaters are pretty much exactly what I was thinking of! Awesome that you were able to grab them on sale.
> 
> On the expense topic, I look to Ralph as a source of inspiration, rather than actually buying from the brand. Everything is generally too much for me.
> 
> There are certain items I may splurge on though eventually, such as Patchworks coats and RRL Handknit Cardigans.


I really do love that pattern/design and wish we had the weather conditions to justify the purchase of one!


----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph email yesterday:


----------



## Fading Fast

A few more from the recent Ralph email:


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 61805


I am sitting on the edge with my opinion of that sweater and how it fits into the scheme of that rig. I fear Ralph may have gone a bridge to far with the gray hues. Just one man;s opinion. LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I am sitting on the edge with my opinion of that sweater and how it fits into the scheme of that rig. I fear Ralph may have gone a bridge to far with the gray hues. Just one man;s opinion. LOL.


Trying to be open minded and knowing that many in the younger generation are "reimagining" the suit, I thought this outfit could have worked if the suit was two sizes bigger and the polo shirt was white or navy (with its collar not popped) or, better still, a dress shirt. I do like the Fair Isle with the suit as a way to make the suit more casual, but the popped green polo shirt collar, to steal your phrase, is a bridge too far for me.


----------



## Old Road Dog

Looks to be a three-button coat, which is unusual for Ralph. Those skinny lapels also look like yesterday's newspaper. If the model took away the shetland sweater and donned the coat, the suit might come close to fitting him. Are we about done with the skinny-fit thing?


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 61854


Now that fits right in with how to dress in the heat.


----------



## Prisoner of Zendaline

Andy said:


> More about pleats. They are not a fashion item!
> 
> Pleats have been with us since 1825 and are also practical. They automatically widen at the hips when you sit down giving you more room.
> 
> Pleats let you put more stuff in your front pockets (including your hands) without disturbing the drape. Pleats are classic and the combination of pleats and cuffs on trousers are a great look.
> 
> _Really do these flat front trousers make you look thinner?_


Agreed! Periodically, I'd verify the "in-style" status of pleats, by seeing what Armani was selling at Saks and Neiman's. That's TWO filters - fashion house and store - to verify that pleats were still _*mainstream*_. Pleats did not disappear. Not sure about the last couple of years, though. Gucci started showing abundant pleats in their youth-oriented lines, and so I know I've got at least a decade, before it's time to worry about that issue. again.

Anyway, *I've always remembered your words on the subject*, from one of your books. And anyone who says different, gets corrected.

As for the chap in the picture.... beyond the fact that those pants make him look fat (which he isn't), they also have Gaposis, and he's showin' more of a certain something else, than c-list celebs _(including my Trainer)_ do on OnlyFans.

I went to a swearing-in ceremony at the beginning of July. It turned out to be a huge deal - much pomp, and many attendees - and the trek from the car took forever, across a country club's grounds, in the deadly heat. In haste, I'd grabbed an Isaia suit, in a _"Super 200s" _windowpane, with *flatfront trousers*. It looked July-appropriate, at that moment. Now, I'm remembering why, a decade back, I'd stopped wearing it. I'd only bought it, because, OTR, its athletic cut fit me perfectly - the sleeves even fitting my apelike arms. How could one resist? Kismet, right?

The jacket had to stay off, until one attained the Clubhouse, obviously, because of the heat. As it turned out, all sorts of functionaries were outside - lining the steps - lining the outside gallery - seeing me stretching to don the jacket, as I rushed toward the cool interior. DW, who'd arrived separately, and who was positioned inside, later said, _"You sure were popular. Forget your compression shorts, again? Prince Harry is less obvious." (Harry's plenty obvious)_

Well, I *DID* wonder why, with three billionaires and two congressmen in attendance, so many people _*NEEDED *_to introduce themselves to nebbishy, inconsequential-little-_me. _ They seemed so _*urgent*_. I was thinking it was the tie, maybe, or the cut of the Isaia - or the way that the Gentian windowpane in the suit, schemed with the Gentian ribbons in the tie, while the Cornflower Blue of my so-so-thin Egyptian cotton shirt, flowed into the tie's Cornflower ribbons - and that the shirtcollar's white must be the exact white of the tie's ground. Yes! For once, the visuals were right. That's what I was thinking. I was not remembering that I was wearing flatfronts. That was the flaw in what I was thinking.

Maybe, it was our new ketogenic foodway, plus the fasting. That belt of fat, which commonly afflicts *"our people" - *even when we're skinny_ -_ was gone. Maybe I finally looked_ "right"_, and_* finally*_, my clothes made me look as important as they were supposed to.

But DW was sending sardonic glances across the room. I knew things would get interesting, later.


----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph email yesterday.


----------



## drpeter

Leather and tweed go together so well.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Who made Ralph's high end shoes? His tassel loafers were impeccable last time I beheld a pair. They looked like Alden for Brooks with braided lacing.


----------



## Old Road Dog

In the 80's, all of my shoes were Polo because I could get them at wholesale prices; and really what else could you wear with PRL clothing? The dress styles looked like those in the photo and they were made by Grenson in England. The styling was different in that the vamp on the slip-on styles (fore-part of the shoe) was proportionately shorter than on the styles in the photo. This allowed the hosiery to show a bit under the pant cuff and was flattering to the foot no matter what size shoe you were. 

Lace-style shoes were normal in proportion.

Of all the shoes I owned only one or two styles were black. Most were the tan seen in the photo; or the tobacco suede in some dress styles. I remember a having brown alligator in a dress slip-on style. I never work black shoes in the daytime.

Ralph also did some casual shoes with crepe soles that were American-made, but the maker name escapes me. It was an American maker, known best for white bucks, and I recall seeing them mentioned by name here in the forums. My favorite was a tan lace-up shoe with crepe soles and with large tassels on the laces (that annoyingly would easily come un-tied during wear).


----------



## Fading Fast

Old Road Dog said:


> In the 80's, all of my shoes were Polo because I could get them at wholesale prices; and really what else could you wear with PRL clothing? The dress styles looked like those in the photo and they were made by Grenson in England. The styling was different in that the vamp on the slip-on styles (fore-part of the shoe) was proportionately shorter than on the styles in the photo. This allowed the hosiery to show a bit under the pant cuff and was flattering to the foot no matter what size shoe you were.
> 
> Lace-style shoes were normal in proportion.
> 
> Of all the shoes I owned only one or two styles were black. Most were the tan seen in the photo; or the tobacco suede in some dress styles. I remember a having brown alligator in a dress slip-on style. I never work black shoes in the daytime.
> 
> Ralph also did some casual shoes with crepe soles that were American-made, but the maker name escapes me. It was an American maker, known best for white bucks, and I recall seeing them mentioned by name here in the forums. My favorite was a tan lace-up shoe with crepe soles and with large tassels on the laces (that annoyingly would easily come un-tied during wear).


I own one of those casual shoes (from the late '90s) - light tan suede with crepe sole (no tassel laces though). It is a really well made buck.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Leather and tweed go together so well.


 Yes, as does Fair Isle.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> From a Ralph email yesterday.
> View attachment 61915


Up until about 20 years ago, I really liked and in fact purchased several pair of Ralph's shoes. I was reminded of this by that pair of loafers on the lower left, featuring the Ivy strap across the throat. I bought a pair of those from the PRL store in the Michigan City, IN, outlet mall. They also sold me a great pair of Long wings from that store. I think I stopped buying Ralph's shoes simply because they stopped carrying them in that outlet store. Pretty dumb, huh? LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Up until about 20 years ago, I really liked and in fact purchased several pair of Ralph's shoes. I was reminded of this by that pair of loafers on the lower left, featuring the Ivy strap across the throat. I bought a pair of those from the PRL store in the Michigan City, IN, outlet mall. They also sold me a great pair of Long wings from that store. I think I stopped buying Ralph's shoes simply because they stopped carrying them in that outlet store. Pretty dumb, huh? LOL.


I still own a few Ralph pairs purchased, as noted in my earlier post, back in the '90s/early'00s. For me, the biggest reason I stopped buying is I hit a critical mass of shoes at the same time the world shifted to mainly casual attire. It's basically the same reason I buy very few clothing items now at all. I have more dress/business/nice clothes than I'll ever need in our dress-down world.


----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph email yesterday:


----------



## Old Road Dog

Designer-ish and elegant.

At an earlier time in my life I lived in that pant model and my very first Polo trousers were worsted flannel in the same creamy white. I had a sleeveless tennis sweater and a doeskin navy blazer that were options for the top. 1973-ish. For the holidays that year I got a Polo black velvet jacket with a braided frog closure, worn with Dress Stewart tartan trousers (also the extension waistband pleated model). It was "at-home" formality, but I did wear it to a party at a polo club that Christmas.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 62084


I think I would have gone with a lighter hued shirt to achieve a better color balance. What do you think of a pale blue OCBD, Ralph?


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## ran23

After having good luck with all cotton Polo's, thought I would try a casual dress shirt in pale yellow with navy check. comfortable, good fit. Wore it with my Chaps Navy casual jacket.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph email yesterday.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> From a Ralph email yesterday.
> View attachment 62271


Guess we can assume Gaucho waistbands are back in vogue?


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Guess we can assume Gaucho waistbands are back in vogue?


Ralph is certainly trying to make them "a thing" again.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Ralph is certainly trying to make them "a thing" again.


Well if I can lose a sufficient number of inches from my waistline, I will certainly be a customer!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Old Road Dog

I could sew and press a cuff better than those. Ralph must be the only manufacturer in the world that still shows cuffs on his models. I'm not knocking that, but for the average Joe on the street, cuffs are going to make that pant look look like they it was bought three decades ago. I have cuffed khakis that are relatively new, but I do wonder what other people seeing them think.


----------



## drpeter

Since almost all fashion is cyclical, sooner or later cuffs are going to come back into vogue, just like tight or loose trouser legs, flat or pleated fronts, narrow or wide lapels for jackets, and so on. Many of the trouser and jacket styles that were all the rage in the forties and fifties did come back during the eighties and nineties, including wider use of DB jackets. So, looked at from a historical perspective, a pair of trousers that might look dated in the short term might eventually become _au courant_ in the long term.

I've said this before, but as far as my own personal style is concerned, I think of things like cuffs or pleats as options. I have trousers with some those features, and also some without them. The same applies to jackets and other items. Whether the average Joe on the street might look askance at my clothes is of no concern to me. I think of being dated as a mark of individuality, perhaps as a sign of the refusal to run with whatever current fashion reigns in the minds of people. Besides, as we can see from the clothes on some of the celebrities and hosts on certain TV shows, the attempt by senior chaps to wear the cutting-edge fashions of the young end up looking at least mildly grotesque!


----------



## Tweedlover

Nearly all the dress pants I wore to work had cuffs. I prefer cuffed dress pants.


----------



## Fading Fast

Tweedlover said:


> Nearly all the dress pants I wore to work had cuffs. I prefer cuffed dress pants.


To my eye, dress pants don't look right without a cuff, but I get that's just my opinion.


----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph email yesterday.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 62414
> 
> From a Ralph email yesterday.


......but, but, but the guy has paired a Tweed sport coat with grey, cotton sweatpants. That is just not right. :crazy:


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Old Road Dog

To my eye, that (cotton, linen?) suit photographed poorly. It is a mass of wrinkles and puckers. Where does one wear such an ensemble, anyway? A casual 3-piece suit. Really? Any guesses at the retail price of the above?


----------



## Fading Fast

Old Road Dog said:


> To my eye, that (cotton, linen?) suit photographed poorly. It is a mass of wrinkles and puckers. Where does one wear such an ensemble, anyway? A casual 3-piece suit. Really? Any guesses at the retail price of the above?


It looks Purple Label to me owing to the style of the advertising, which ballpark means $2500-$4000. Again, just a guess.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 62520


Great rig...every component of it! I do so love the cardigan.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Great rig...every component of it! I do so love the cardigan.


I agree, other than the over stylized perching of the hat, love the outfit.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph email yesterday.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 62627
> 
> From a Ralph email yesterday.


Now that's an effective sales stimulator, but i sure wish one could stop the cycle long enough to really consider a particular garment.


----------



## Old Road Dog

eagle2250 said:


> Now that's an effective sales stimulator, but i sure wish one could stop the cycle long enough to really consider a particular garment.


That's not an ad. That's a diabolical means of inducing a confession!


----------



## drpeter

I thoroughly dislike flashing adverts. If anything, it has an effect diametrically opposed to that intended by the advertiser: It persuades me never to buy a single thing from the company in question. I wonder if advertisers realize that their messages often have such negative effects on readers or viewers. But perhaps I am in the minority, LOL.

So many news websites use other sorts of flashing adverts which often moves the news columns about and distracts one from reading the news. On top of these, the website often puts up a giant message in a large square and greys out everything else, so that you have to respond to the message in some fashion. It makes for a very unpleasant experience reading news on such websites.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> I thoroughly dislike flashing adverts. If anything, it has an effect diametrically opposed to that intended by the advertiser: It persuades me never to buy a single thing from the company in question. I wonder if advertisers realize that their messages often have such negative effects on readers or viewers. But perhaps I am in the minority, LOL.
> 
> So many news websites use other sorts of flashing adverts which often moves the news columns about and distracts one from reading the news. On top of these, the website often puts up a giant message in a large square and greys out everything else, so that you have to respond to the message in some fashion. It makes for a very unpleasant experience reading news on such websites.


I couldn't agree with you more, but we must be in the minority. The people under 30 or, even, 40 today have spent their lives in front of screens where they "flip" from this to that, so maybe it's a generational thing.

I'm 57 and very comfortable with new technology, so it isn't that, but I don't like not being able to look at the pic for more than a flash.

I watch younger kids (and, as noted, even adults into their 30s today) and they really do "flip" around from image to image all the time on their computers and phones.

It's why you've probably noticed how movies and TV shows are alway flipping from scene to scene. Watch a sitcom from the '80 vs today and you'll be amazed at how short scenes are today; it's almost as if the producers are afraid if they don't show you a new image every few minutes, you'll get bored and watch something else.


----------



## drpeter

There's probably an interesting relationship between short attention spans, distractability and advertising. Sustained attention devoted to a single task seems quite unusual in our culture nowadays. How would anyone prove a theorem or overhaul a bicycle without sustained attention? How does anything worthwhile get done, LOL?


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 62520


Add a flat cap and instantly you think British.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Old Road Dog

Great look for a nineteen-year-old. My kids are too old to wear that rig.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Old Road Dog

Polo/Ralph Lauren has been around so long that it is reprising itself. In a recent post, I mentioned having POLO white flannels and a tennis sweater in the early '70s. The sweater above is exactly the one I had; fifty odd years ago.


----------



## Fading Fast

Old Road Dog said:


> Polo/Ralph Lauren has been around so long that it is reprising itself. In a recent post, I mentioned having POLO white flannels and a tennis sweater in the early '70s. The sweater above is exactly the one I had; fifty odd years ago.


You're spot on as Ralph has, effectively, been riffing on the same clothing styles from the '20s - '60s since he started his company. That's not a criticism as he does it very well and admits that's his mission.


----------



## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 62839


that's more my kid's age.


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> You're spot on as Ralph has, effectively, been riffing on the same clothing styles from the '20s - '60s since he started his company. That's not a criticism as he does it very well and admits that's his mission.


And, thus, why I like so many of his creations. Shame, though, I could only afford them if thrifted.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Old Road Dog

The dressiest of suits paired with the most casual of shirts. Pure Ralph.


----------



## Fading Fast

An annoying "rotating" one from a recent Ralph email.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Old Road Dog

Ralph, wearing essentially that same outfit, has appeared several times on these pages. He seems to favor a dressy (often DB) jacket with well-worn jeans, and often the spread collar shirt and plain tie. Back in the day, he made quite a splash with the formal jackets worn over jeans. It was humerous to see men imitating that look on the streets of NY.


----------



## Tweedlover

Old Road Dog said:


> Ralph, wearing essentially that same outfit, has appeared several times on these pages. He seems to favor a dressy (often DB) jacket with well-worn jeans, and often the spread collar shirt and plain tie. Back in the day, he made quite a splash with the formal jackets worn over jeans. It was humerous to see men imitating that look on the streets of NY.


Not a look I particularly like. For my tastes the only time jeans look good with a jacket is when paired with winter weight textured sports coat such as tweed or camel hair-and, of course, wouldn't like them so worn that they've sprung holes.


----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph email yesterday.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 63056


Ya had me...right up to that blaze orange belt, but then the color does go with the Croakies we see being worn by the ever valiant Captain Sierra! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

Another annoying "rotating" one:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> Another annoying "rotating" one:
> View attachment 63181


Assuming it is of leather construction, nice luggage!


----------



## Oldsarge

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 63056


Minus the orange belt, that's a very practical PNW look. I wonder if he has a fly rod and waders down next to his feet.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 63238


Were it mine, I would add perhaps an inch and a half to the tail of that coat...butt cheeks should be covered!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Were it mine, I would add perhaps an inch and a half to the tail of that coat...butt cheeks should be covered!


I agree. Other than the cut (and I'm not crazy about the belt with this rig), I really like this outfit, but the sport coat looks two sizes too small.


----------



## Oldsarge

Kiddywear seems still to be the rage. Pity.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 63281


Dudes with "Tudes!" Although the guy at the top right of the photo dad a rather fine job of suiting up. As to the others, we have a hung jury! LOL.


----------



## Old Road Dog

In the ranch-house photo it is possible that nothing that Ralph is wearing is of his manufacture: He is known to be partial to LEE jeanes, the boots are 95% not-Polo, the belt is vintage; and I would say the doeskin jacket is craftsman-made. That leaves the shirt and the scarf in question. As to the ladies' garb, those are probably Lauren one-offs from the runway shows, or perhaps they were made for this photo shoot. That cabin is spectacular!


----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph email yesterday titled "US Open Spectator Style."


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> From a Ralph email yesterday titled "US Open Spectator Style."
> View attachment 63398
> View attachment 63399
> View attachment 63400


Perhaps it's just the style, but the DB jacket in that last picture sure looks short waisted to my eye. It looks like he is wearing a waistcoat of sorts and that sweater tied around his neck looks disturbingly ridiculous. If you are not going to wear it, leave it at home! Nuff said.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Perhaps it's just the style, but the DB jacket in that last picture sure looks short waisted to my eye. It looks like he is wearing a waistcoat of sorts and that sweater tied around his neck looks disturbingly ridiculous. If you are not going to wear it, leave it at home! Nuff said.


IMO, almost all sport coats and suit jackets, single or double breasted, are cut too short today. I think there's an aesthetic argument to be made for the older, longer cuts, but maybe I'm just justifying my preferences.


----------



## ran23

Odd striped shirt in the second pic. Is it different sleeve stripes compared to the shirt body?


----------



## Fading Fast

ran23 said:


> Odd striped shirt in the second pic. Is it different sleeve stripes compared to the shirt body?


I think you are correct. I've seen those popping up more the past year or so. Not my thing, but they appear to be having a moment.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 63428


The braided lacing on those Tassel Loafers is a handsome touch. I wasn't aware that PRL offered that feature on their loafers, but I do have a pair of whiskey hued Cheaney Tassel Loafers with braided lacing. I seem to bite every time they lay that hook on the water. LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph email yesterday:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> From a Ralph email yesterday:
> View attachment 63475


Ralph must have fallen off one of his horses and bumped his head. Is the model in the photograph above wearing a plaid suit or a pair of plaid PJ's? If it is a suit, the fit is horrible!


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 63353


A non-clothing comment here. While I think log homes look nice from the outside. Inside they makes things too dark for my tastes.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> Ralph must have fallen off one of his horses and bumped his head. Is the model in the photograph above wearing a plaid suit or a pair of plaid PJ's? If it is a suit, the fit is horrible!


It looks better with the red nose and flippers.


----------



## Fading Fast

Tweedlover said:


> A non-clothing comment here. While I think log homes look nice from the outside. Inside they makes things too dark for my tastes.


I'm over my skis with this question, could the logs be stained a light color to offset that effect?


----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph email yesterday "The Polo Bear Shop."


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> From a Ralph email yesterday "The Polo Bear Shop."
> View attachment 63517
> View attachment 63518


I cannot honestly claim to have changed my opinion od oversized embroidery on sweaters, but that bear sweater would wear a whole lot more handsomely if the guy in the bottom photo would tuck in his plaid shirt! However I do so love those fleece lined car coats!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I cannot honestly claim to have changed my opinion od oversized embroidery on sweaters, but that bear sweater would wear a whole lot more handsomely if the guy in the bottom photo would tuck in his plaid shirt! However I do so love those fleece lined car coats!


I also like, what looks like, the reversible houndstooth on one side and tan canvas on the other jacket the guy at the top is wearing as shown here ⇩










Like you, I have no interest in the large-bear sweaters, but the bear himself in the above sweater is handsomely attired.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 63547


Pictorial proof that men's style can indeed prove to be timeless. Just saying....


----------



## Old Road Dog

eagle2250 said:


> Pictorial proof that men's style can indeed prove to be timeless. Just saying....


Except, that photo is eleven years old....

Ralph, today, seems to have abandoned anything approaching _timeless_ or even "_real_".


----------



## eagle2250

Old Road Dog said:


> Except, that photo is eleven years old....
> 
> Ralph, today, seems to have abandoned anything approaching _timeless_ or even "_real_".


Indeed, but the suits in the referenced picture are still very wearable today.


----------



## Fading Fast

Happy Labor Day.


----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph email this weekend.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> From a Ralph email this weekend.
> View attachment 63739


On several past year(s) adventures painting our houses, I had a few pair of the trousers pictured above. As I recall, they were last stored in one of several trash bins! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph email yesterday (Polo has been sending a lot more emails recently):


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 63838


Please tell Ralph that ad is a winner...all the way across.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 63857


I think Ralph is finally beginning to make clothes for the rich who want to look like the poor.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 63871


A well dressed young man enjoying a quiet, reflective day in the country? A very appealing thought, for sure.


----------



## Fading Fast

From a recent Ralph email, it's one of those annoying "rotating" ads. Looks like some neat clothing in there if it would ever stop long enough so that we could really see the individual items:


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 64003


I do so love cotton poplin suits, but if one is going to pay PRL prices for such rigs, one should be conscientious enough to don and doff the garments properly! Nuff said.


----------



## Fading Fast

From a recent Ralph email:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> From a recent Ralph email:
> View attachment 64022
> View attachment 64023


The camel hued overcoat is clearly the cream of this most recent crop of garments. What looks to be a camel suede bomber jacket design also warrants a closer look.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph email a day or two ago titled: "Introducing Fall 2021 Collection and Purple Label"


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 64074


Not a good look, regardless of who designed and/or sold it! The jacket is one hot mess and it does not fit the model wearing it. Nuff said.


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 64109


That is a memorably picturesque storefront. Do you happen to know the location?


----------



## Oldsarge

eagle2250 said:


> That is a memorably picturesque storefront. Do you happen to know the location?


Sadly I do not. London, perhaps?


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 64147


That Herringbone Jacket is a favorite of mine and I must also opine, that is a great job of layering! Well done Mr Ralph.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph email yesterday:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> From a Ralph email yesterday:
> View attachment 64330
> View attachment 64331


I very much like the clothes, but the way they are being worn...not so much!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

⇧ Oops, posted in the wrong thread. Sorry.

How 'bout an actual Ralph post.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> ⇧ Oops, posted in the wrong thread. Sorry.
> 
> How 'bout an actual Ralph post.
> View attachment 64465


I like the tie and think I like the shirt, but I would not have paired that tie with that shirt. However, I am not 19 and not bored with a photo shoot that I am participating in!


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> I like the tie and think I like the shirt, but I would not have paired that tie with that shirt. However, I am not 19 and not bored with a photo shoot that I am participating in!


I like the Gurkha-style khakis too, LOL. Didn't know RL made them.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 64510


Love the duffle coat and the crew neck sweater, the Rugby shirt is Ok, but not much more. The Bucket Hat is just plain goofy.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> Love the duffle coat and the crew neck sweater, the Rugby shirt is Ok, but not much more. The Bucket Hat is just plain goofy.


Agreed. I am pushing 73 and do not yet feel old enough to pull off a bucket hat.


----------



## Oldsarge

If I was on a shooting peg, well-decked out in tweed and it was drizzling, I think I might wish for a bucket hat.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Oldsarge said:


> If I was on a shooting peg, well-decked out in tweed and it was drizzling, I think I might wish for a bucket hat.


You would be better protected from the elements with a Tilley Endurable!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 64585


Given that the subject in the photo above is wearing sweatpants and appears to be wearing sneakers, we can only hope the gentleman is out for his morning run with his best friend!


----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph email this weekend:


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 64708


The sleeves on that Turtleneck seem an unusual design twist in the shirts construction. I would like to think that quilted vest is a suede finish, but suspect it is an oilcloth design. Nice rig, in either event.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> The sleeves on that Turtleneck seem an unusual design twist in the shirts construction. I would like to think that quilted vest is a suede finish, but suspect it is an oilcloth design. Nice rig, in either event.


That particular turtleneck is not something I'd wear, but can appreciate as it, along with the entire outfit, is of such nice quality and it is part of a very thoughtful outfit.


----------



## Old Road Dog

I'm wondering how well the double forward pleated trouser is selling for Ralph. In my mind, all of his dress pants should be pleated, as that expression is one more way of making his clothing special, and different. Perhaps, in Purple Label, there is no choice? Hey, he still shows cuffed trousers exclusively; so why not the pleats, as well?


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drlivingston

eagle2250 said:


> Given that the subject in the photo above is wearing sweatpants and appears to be wearing sneakers, we can only hope the gentleman is out for his morning run with his best friend!


I purchased my wife a Tilley hat recently so that it would protect her neck and face while we watched my daughter play tennis matches. I am, typically, not one to find humor in the frustrations of others. But, I was doubled over laughing while watching my wife trying to figure out how to work the double strap of the hat. She almost choked herself and ripped her ears off in the space of 60 seconds. I finally stepped in and adjusted it for her.


----------



## Fading Fast

Take off the giant crest and I really like this.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 64861
> 
> Take off the giant crest and I really like this.


A great rig, for sure, but I can't help but wonder as to the cause of the apparent abrasion on the models right cheek. Perhaps the photographer had to get his attention before taking that great shot?


----------



## Oldsarge

Or perhaps _cease_ his attentions so the shoot could go on?


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 64875


An intense looking young man who seems to have tucked a grey RPL sweatshirt into his trouser waist. His rig seems overly large on him....yes, no? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> An intense looking young man who seems to have tucked a grey RPL sweatshirt into his trouser waist. His rig seems overly large on him....yes, no? :icon_scratch:


Because of the oversized fit (that you note), my guess is the ad is from 1990s.


----------



## Old Road Dog

FF has got it right. The oversized-fit photo is from a prior decade. It shows that "fashion victims" can be found in every era and that manufacturers are always looking for excuses to dismiss the old and usher in the new. The current tight-fit trend is so antithetical to traditional fine clothing fit. It might work on the fashion runway, but it fails on the street. All IMHO, of course.


----------



## Tweedlover

eagle2250 said:


> An intense looking young man who seems to have tucked a grey RPL sweatshirt into his trouser waist. His rig seems overly large on him....yes, no? :icon_scratch:


Many of my tops were bought when I weighed 50 pounds more. Liked them too well to dispose of them and find I actually like a slightly over-sized look.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 64968


The person on the viewers right has put together quite the outfit. The whole montage brings a flood of memories of hanging out with your mates, talking about baskets of towels.


----------



## Fading Fast

Vecchio Vespa said:


> The person on the viewers right has put together quite the outfit. The whole montage brings a flood of memories of hanging out with your mates, talking about baskets of towels.


I'm not a fan of these "flashing pictures" as I find the second I'm interested in something, it's gone by. Maybe the generation raised on video images flashing by likes it, but for me, I find it harder to actually say "I like that, maybe, I want this, etc," so it seems less effective as an advertising tool. But I'm sure that's just because I'm 57.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 65001


.....but those turned up jeans are a bit of a turn off. I really like the cream hue socks and loafers.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> .....but those turned up jeans are a bit of a turn off. I really like the cream hue socks and loafers.


As happens often, we are thinking the same way. If he'd roll down the jeans and go up a size in the sport coat, I'd like it. With the jeans rolled up like that, he's screaming at you to look at his cream-colored socks - why do that? Love the duffle coat as well.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Old Road Dog

I noticed the 1998 attribution as I moused over the above photo. Polo was already thirty years into their history and the clothing pictured reflects that history. Contrast the fit of the clothing during those first thirty years to last two decades. Note the age (and race) of the models, but particularly how wearable each item of apparel is. Every model could reasonably wear any of the outfits and not look "in costume". By contrast, much of what "Ralph Lauren" markets today is targeted towards a fashion-influenced audience.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 65093


Is he trying to break the Guinness record for layering? I count four, assuming he does not wear an undershirt, and he has yet to don a duffel or polo. Well, maybe I overcounted. The maroon at the bottom could be a bottom panel on his rugby shirt. Still awfully layery, sort of a sartorial mille feuille.


----------



## Fading Fast

From a recent Ralph email:


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> From a recent Ralph email:
> View attachment 65116
> View attachment 65117


Some nice outfits-if it would only slow down enough for me to actually appreciate them.:angry:


----------



## Fading Fast

Tweedlover said:


> Some nice outfits-if it would only slow down enough for me to actually appreciate them.:angry:


It's insanely frustrating. Either, as you said, slow it down or let us click on it to stop. I like several items in the outfits, but give up as it's too hard to really see them.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> It's insanely frustrating. Either, as you said, slow it down or let us click on it to stop. I like several items in the outfits, but give up as it's too hard to really see them.


They do not want you to be able to see them. They want to force you to go to their website. Once there you will be enticed to empty your wallet and max out your cards.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Fading Fast said:


> 1It's insanely frustrating. Either, as you said, slow it down or let us click on it to stop. I like several items in the outfits, but give up as it's too hard to really see them.


Consider a screen grab...










. .then view at leisure in Google Photos.

Maybe crop it, to save just the parts you like...


----------



## Fading Fast

Some more from a recent Ralph email:


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> Some more from a recent Ralph email:
> View attachment 65203
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 65205
> View attachment 65208


Top...A
Middle...F, despite nice elements
Bottom...B

The chap in the middle cannot carry off any aspect of the look he is wearing, especially the hat and the bow. As for his patchwork tweed, what a shame. The scarf and trousers are quite fine.


----------



## Fading Fast

Vecchio Vespa said:


> Top...A
> Middle...F, despite nice elements
> Bottom...B
> 
> The chap in the middle cannot carry off any aspect of the look he is wearing, especially the hat and the bow. As for his patchwork tweed, what a shame. The scarf and trousers are quite fine.


 My grading is pretty close to yours.

Top: I like the shawl sweater with the 2/3 of the suit, but the silk scarf is one thing too many: A-

Middle: I agree, F

Bottom: Other than the overly flourishing pocket square, I really like this one and, as opposed to the guy in the middle pic, this guy looks comfortable in the outfit: A-


----------



## Oldsarge

glen check plaid--highball glasses!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

From a recent Ralph email:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 65229


That rig is bizarre, all the way to the bone! Who among us would ever wear a corduroy Letterman's jacket and for those who would, would you pair it with a tweed vest? The above seems to at the very least constitute a venial sin....yes, no?


----------



## Fading Fast

From a recent Ralph email:


----------



## Corcovado

eagle2250 said:


> That rig is bizarre, all the way to the bone! Who among us would ever wear a corduroy Letterman's jacket and for those who would, would you pair it with a tweed vest? The above seems to at the very least constitute a venial sin....yes, no?


I think the RL look is pretty affected in the first place, but just to play devil's advocate here I'll say that the photos seem to be using layering to get as much product into one photo as possible, rather than to present an ensemble actually intended for wear.


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> From a recent Ralph email:
> View attachment 65306
> View attachment 65307


I rather like shearling coats. RL purple label has a couple right now that are quite attractive-if you're into paying $5000 or so.


----------



## Fading Fast

Tweedlover said:


> I rather like shearling coats. RL purple label has a couple right now that are quite attractive-if you're into paying $5000 or so.


Since Purple Label at full price is way out of my price range, I've watched the sales and have bought Purple Label items on the Ralph site at 50%-70% off, even more a few times. For the big discounts, you have to wait for the end-of-season sales and, then, pounce as the Purple Label stuff goes fast when its marked way down.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 65326


Oh My! I think I will just leave it at that. LOL.


----------



## Corcovado

https://berkeleysupply.com/products/rrl-indigo-wool-cotton-cardigan?variant=39523913531486
I'm not an $845 sweater sort of guy, but if I ever get to a point in life where a sweater from North Sea Clothing Company seems too downmarket for me, I know where to look.


----------



## Old Road Dog

Is RRL still in existence? I can't keep up with all of the label iterations.


----------



## Fading Fast

Old Road Dog said:


> Is RRL still in existence? I can't keep up with all of the label iterations.


It is.

Here's another one from RRL's current offerings:


----------



## Old Road Dog

Those are truly great looking sweaters.

As an aside, I rented the HBO movie, _Very Ralph,_ about Ralph Lauren's entire career. It ran nearly two hours and was really quite well done. It clearly was made with his guidance, and did not address any of the "bad news" items that are inevitable in such a long span. What struck me the most was Ralph's vision of good taste and good living and how doggedly he still pursues that dream in each iteration of his product offerings. It certainly stands in stark contrast to reality in the Covid era, making his stuff seem more mythical than ever before.


----------



## Oldsarge

And today is his 82nd birthday.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 65737


Looks to be a team of real live "Ruggers"....looking at them, it is hard to tell if the picture was taken before or after the match! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Looks to be a team of real live "Ruggers"....looking at them, it is hard to tell if the picture was taken before or after the match! LOL.


Agreed, those are no Ralph models.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 65763


Noticing the pristine state of their clothing, the absence of grass stains and/or other soiling, might we assume they are on their way to the contest and not coming from such? LOL.


----------



## Old Road Dog

That shot is from the early1980's. Those guys are old now, just like us!


----------



## eagle2250

Old Road Dog said:


> That shot is from the early1980's. Those guys are old now, just like us!


LOL, to make em my age, your going to have to back the date of that photo up at least another 10 to 15 years! Good lawd, now I really am feeling old.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Old Road Dog

Those are the first plain-bottom trousers I have seen in a Polo ad (excluding jeans). Cuffs have got to be a tough sell at retail in 2021.


----------



## Fading Fast

Old Road Dog said:


> Those are the first plain-bottom trousers I have seen in a Polo ad (excluding jeans). Cuffs have got to be a tough sell at retail in 2021.


Most men under forty think cuffs and pleats are "old men" things. I like flat front or pleats based on the specifics. I feel the same with cuffs versus no cuffs, but for dress pants, I think cuffs are almost always better. But then, at 57, I guess I'm an old man.


----------



## Old Road Dog

Also might add that with jacket lengths being what they are today. a retailer can almost eliminate stocking regulars and longs and just go with graduated lengths by chest size. This would cut inventory by at least a third for achieving the same amount of sales.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 65985


Nice fit in the chest and shoulders with that jacket, but the rest of it needs to be sized up considerably!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Nice fit in the chest and shoulders with that jacket, but the rest of it needs to be sized up considerably!


I try to be open minded, but I think objectively that looks too small as it pulls and wrinkles, but man does it feel as if us "old school" guys are swimming upstream on this issue.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> I try to be open minded, but I think objectively that looks too small as it pulls and wrinkles, but man does it feel as if us "old school" guys are swimming upstream on this issue.


But at least we are dressed comfortably. About ten years ago I tried on a BB suit jacket and felt so tightly bound I could not get it off fast enough, and the trend has gone on and moved to even tighter clothing. No wonder younger people are ditching coats and ties.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 66169


While I am not a big fan of draping a blaze orange fleece like a shawl collar on my Tweed jackets, the sweater does have leather elbow patches ...and in my book, that is a saving grace!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> While I am not a big fan of draping a blaze orange fleece like a shawl collar on my Tweed jackets, the sweater does have leather elbow patches ...and in my book, that is a saving grace!


I'm with you on the sweater-draping thing, but away from that, I really like the outfit (and the pin collar is actually a straight point collar, not an unbuttoned button-down one as Ralph likes to use with a collar bar, which looks stupid to me).

I've only owned one elbow-patched sweater, but it's definitely a good idea, especially if you work at a desk and prop your elbow up on the desk as you move your mouse around, as I've lost many shirts and sweaters to that wearing out the elbow area.


----------



## Old Road Dog

Terrific outfit, IMHO. Back in the day when I was selling Polo, I wore similar rigs on frosty winter days (sans the draped sweater). Brown suede wings-tips below decks. 

I never have felt the same way about clothing as I did in that era; the mid-70's into the mid- 80's. To me, it was my high point sartorially, and for PRL as a concept realized.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 66483


Nicely done with the rig, but tell me.......is he wearing two different shoe designs. The one on his left foot appears to be a solid tan PTB, while the shoe on his right foot is a two tone saddle shoe. Someone, anyone, please tell me I'm mistaken. LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Nicely done with the rig, but tell me.......is he wearing two different shoe designs. The one on his left foot appears to be a solid tan PTB, while the shoe on his right foot is a two tone saddle shoe. Someone, anyone, please tell me I'm mistaken. LOL.


Good "Eagle" eye - sadly, it looks like two different shoes.


----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 65763


From the whites, gloves and kneepads, one can safely assume the game they are playing is supposed to be cricket. No one, repeat no one, ever wears a necktie while playing the game, except (in the old days) the main umpire (behind the wicket at the bowling end, and the square leg umpire who stands behind the batsman in the fielding position called square leg. No striped shirts or club collars either. So this image is another one of those concocted ones created by people who do not understand the game -- likely American advertising people working for RL.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 66615


The young man has got to tuck in that shirt, take his left hand out of his pocket and spit out whatever he has in his mouth that is putting that sourpuss look on his face. Other than that.........


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Corcovado

Why did the three piece suit ever go away (or nearly so at least)? I think the vest is due for a comeback.


----------



## Old Road Dog

We apparently are all men of a certain age here on the "Ralph" forum. I am thinking that we would do well to have some younger input. Ralph Lauren surrounds himself with youth in the process of creating. How can we also strive to blend the perspectives of individuals of all ages?


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 66747


Ralph has done quite well today. As ZZ Topp would tell us, that fella "is a sharp dressed man!"


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 67059


Very nicely done. I will even grant the young man clemency for the popped OCBD collar, as it might be a 'self-protective' measure taken by the lad against the often scratchy effect of a wool turtleneck on a bare neck! The photographer even caught a hint of facial expression on this Ralph model. Nice work.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Very nicely done. I will even grant the young man clemency for the popped OCBD collar, as it might be a 'self-protective' measure taken by the lad against the often scratchy effect of a wool turtleneck on a bare neck! The photographer even caught a hint of facial expression on this Ralph model. Nice work.


I'm not a fan of the popped collar either, but agree, it's a heck of nice looking "simple" outfit. It's consistent with my approach, which is to do simple well (I'm often not successful).


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> I'm not a fan of the popped collar either, but agree, it's a heck of nice looking "simple" outfit. It's consistent with my approach, which is to do simple well (I'm often not successful).


It is funny to me that the popped collar has become a fashion feature, albeit a reviled one. I began wearing shirts that way as a shortcut, pulling them over my head and wearing them however they happened to land. Later I discovered that the collar served as a facing for a high and uncomfortable sweater neck. I did not even think of it as a "look" for many more years, probably until the 1980s and the OPHB. When I catch myself leaving it up or, more likely, partially up, I turn it down, but that may be well into the day when I realize it has been that way for hours. It may look bad to many, but it has it benefits, speed and comfort. It seems no one reacts to a turned up collar on a Barbour. Cur non?


----------



## Fading Fast

Vecchio Vespa said:


> It is funny to me that the popped collar has become a fashion feature, albeit a reviled one. I began wearing shirts that way as a shortcut, pulling them over my head and wearing them however they happened to land. Later I discovered that the collar served as a facing for a high and uncomfortable sweater neck. I did not even think of it as a "look" for many more years, probably until the 1980s and the OPHB. When I catch myself leaving it up or, more likely, partially up, I turn it down, but that may be well into the day when I realize it has been that way for hours. It may look bad to many, but it has it benefits, speed and comfort. It seems no one reacts to a turned up collar on a Barbour. Cur non?


I never thought of the popped collar as facing for a turtleneck, but it does make sense in that way. I've also thought the popped collar on the overcoat makes sense as it can protect the neck from the wind and provide some added warmth. When I've accidentally popped a shirt collar the way you describe - putting a shirt on quickly - I've always noticed it as it felt off in some way, so I'd turn it down. But the older I get, the less any of this stuff bothers me one way or another: if someone likes a popped collar, enjoy.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> Nicely done with the rig, but tell me.......is he wearing two different shoe designs. The one on his left foot appears to be a solid tan PTB, while the shoe on his right foot is a two tone saddle shoe. Someone, anyone, please tell me I'm mistaken. LOL.


Possibly, but not for certain, he burnished the upper more on his right shoe.


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 67299


Can't say I've ever been much of a fan of bucket hats, though tweed ones are somewhat attractive to me.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 67479


Sure looks good/cute on the kids,


----------



## 215339

Cardigan is RRL, and the entire ensemble feels perfect.

__
http://instagr.am/p/CTWLr0wLXhu/


----------



## Tweedlover

I do like some of RRL's cardigans, though wouldn't want a belted one. The prices charged for them, though, absolutely floor me as do many of the prices for RRL pieces.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## 215339

Tweedlover said:


> I do like some of RRL's cardigans, though wouldn't want a belted one. The prices charged for them, though, absolutely floor me as do many of the prices for RRL pieces.


The ranch cardigans are unique to RRL, I haven't seen anything like them from another company.

Definitely high prices though.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 67759


The embroidered loga is small enough to be considered not offensive. The shirt, the sweater, the watch....they all work nicely together! Thank you Ralph...this is a good one!


----------



## Old Road Dog

Ralph tends to put the horsey on items that are otherwise kind of generic, or are from the Polo Outlets. Kind of like wearing an item inside-out, so that the label shows.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 68039


Natural facial expressions add so much to the finished advertising shot! Another good one Ralph.


----------



## Tweedlover

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 68039


Would love to have a cap like that.


----------



## Fading Fast

Tweedlover said:


> Would love to have a cap like that.


It's very classic cool.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Tweedlover said:


> Would love to have a cap like that.


And you can, just about. The problem with most flat caps is that they only work on the very slim of face. On every one else they look like a beanie with a visor, way too tiny. But the Ralph guy pictured has a full and floppy one, ideal for when you're older and faces fill out. Below is where I got mine, two of 'em, upper right and bottom left. EBay...










I chose to wear this one with the crown somewhat punched and will iron out the front crease, someday.


----------



## 215339

Peak and Pine said:


> And you can, just about. *The problem with most flat caps is that they only work on the very slim of face. *On every one else they look like a beanie with a visor, way too tiny. But the Ralph guy pictured has a full and floppy one, ideal for when you're older and faces fill out. Below is where I got mine, two of 'em, upper right and bottom left. EBay...
> 
> View attachment 68071
> 
> 
> I chose to wear this one with the crown somewhat punched and will iron out the front crease, someday.
> 
> View attachment 68075


I look ridiculous in a flat cap and have a slim face, it engulfs everything.

I agree that it looks best on people with fuller faces, unless I misinterpreted your assertion.


----------



## Tweedlover

delicious_scent said:


> I look ridiculous in a flat cap and have a slim face, it engulfs everything.
> 
> I agree that it looks best on people with fuller faces, unless I misinterpreted your assertion.


I'm more mid-way between slim and full--faced. I have 2 flat caps and 3 fedoras I like to wear.


----------



## 215339

Tweedlover said:


> I'm more mid-way between slim and full--faced. I have 2 flat caps and 3 fedoras I like to wear.


I wish!

A lot of these are difficult to pull off nowadays IMO unless older and distinguished.


----------



## Tweedlover

delicious_scent said:


> I wish!
> 
> A lot of these are difficult to pull off nowadays IMO unless older and distinguished.


Yeah, it seems most guys younger than at least 40 seem to look a little odd wearing a fedora. I passed 40 27+ years ago.


----------



## 215339

Tweedlover said:


> Yeah, it seems most guys younger than at least 40 seem to look a little odd wearing a fedora. I passed 40 27+ years ago.


I hope to be a cool old dude one day too. I'll definitely bust out the caps and fedoras when the time feels right.

On a similiar note, I wasn't able to pull off tweed in my early 20's. I find now that I'm in my later 20's, it looks more at home. Could be due to experience too. Easy to pull off with tweed overcoats and being heavily bearded.


----------



## Tweedlover

delicious_scent said:


> I hope to be a cool old dude one day too. I'll definitely bust out the caps and fedoras when the time feels right.
> 
> On a similiar note, I wasn't able to pull off tweed in my early 20's. I find now that I'm in my later 20's, it looks more at home. Could be due to experience too. Easy to pull off with tweed overcoats and being heavily bearded.


Yeah, a beard can add some gravitas. I've had a close cropped beard continuously since I was 18.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

W


Tweedlover said:


> Yeah, it seems most guys younger than at least 40 seem to look a little odd wearing a fedora. I passed 40 27+ years ago.


Wear your fedora and ignore the peanut galleries of the world! When it comes to your wardrobe your opinion is the one that really counts!


----------



## fred johnson

That outfit just goes way to far in the wrong direction.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 68269


Personally I am attracted to the "Estate" flavor those cargo pockets bring to the PRL ad above, but I can't help wondering if the inherent design incongruities between the cargo pockets and the rest of the suit might limit it's sales appeal? :icon_scratch:


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 68327


I like the PRL ad above, but I just can't imagine ever stretching out on the lawn, wearing that incredibly handsome coat.. Now I would stretch out on the lawn wearing my old flight jacket or even by beloved Barbour jacket. Just saying.....


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I like the PRL ad above, but I just can't imagine ever stretching out on the lawn, wearing that incredibly handsome coat.. Now I would stretch out on the lawn wearing my old flight jacket or even by beloved Barbour jacket. Just saying.....


I'm not overly fussy, but I could not agree more. Grass stains on a ($2000+) camel hair coat would not be fun.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## drpeter

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 68507


This is a good example of how so much of dressing involves striking a balance between conformity (blending in) and individualism (standing out). Obviously, these lads are trending rather more towards the former. Even their rolled up trouser bottoms are almost identical, not to mention the rest of their rigs. But there is a blow struck for individualism, LOL, and that is in their belts -- surcingle, brown leather and black leather.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> This is a good example of how so much of dressing involves striking a balance between conformity (blending in) and individualism (standing out). Obviously, these lads are trending rather more towards the former. Even their rolled up trouser bottoms are almost identical, not to mention the rest of their rigs. But there is a blow struck for individualism, LOL, and that is in their belts -- surcingle, brown leather and black leather.


And watch straps and bracelets!


----------



## drpeter

Vecchio Vespa said:


> And watch straps and bracelets!


Those too. Thanks for pointing this out.


----------



## Fading Fast

Stunning to see someone smoking in a Ralph ad as it looks like it's from the last twenty or so years.


----------



## Corcovado

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 68507


The models in RL ads don't look like they have much fun, despite the luxury and leisure on display. They look like sociopathic scions of some wealthy industrialist, the sort of lads who would knock up the maid's 14 year old daughter and solve the issue by having Gavin, the former SAS who's now head of security for the family, drown the poor lass in the waters off Capri.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph email yesterday, the stupid rotating images:









And from the same email, some Sunday Ralph bears:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> From a Ralph email yesterday, the stupid rotating images:
> View attachment 68889
> 
> 
> And from the same email, some Sunday Ralph bears:
> View attachment 68891


The sweater ads are quite good, but the holiday gift finder leaves a bit to be desired! Nuff said.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph email yesterday:


----------



## Peak and Pine

I am recovering slowly from the strobe effect of the above and wonder why these migraine inducers continue to be posted, meanwhile and finally, a Ralph ad for the more mature among us...










My cloaks are currenty on loan to a local satanic cult or I would post a picture.

_Edit for an afterthought, actually a withheld forethought. Maybe not post those email'ed fast frames until you figure out how to take a screen shot and post as individual stills._


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 69295


I really like this one....I think my reaction is primarily based on all those differing facial expressions. However, on the possible downside, is that fellow at the front bottom of the shot wearing sweatpants with that rig? Please tell me it isn't so, Joe!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I really like this one....I think my reaction is primarily based on all those differing facial expressions. However, on the possible downside, is that fellow at the front bottom of the shot wearing sweatpants with that rig? Please tell me it isn't so, Joe!


Sadly, I think those are sweats.


----------



## Tweedlover

Will say, though, that, overall, do believe Polo is my favorite RL line.


----------



## Fading Fast

I have no idea why there are so many strong patterns in this outfit.


----------



## Fading Fast

From a recent Ralph email:


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> From a recent Ralph email:
> View attachment 69383
> View attachment 69385
> View attachment 69387


Rather unusual and overly extravagant belt buckle, methinks. However, the sweaters all look good.


----------



## Corcovado

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 69325
> 
> I have no idea why there are so many strong patterns in this outfit.


...or why the tweed sport coat appears to be 1 or 2 sizes too small.

This appears to be another example of dressing the model not in a sensible outfit but with as much product as possible so as to get the most advertising out of a single photo.


----------



## Fading Fast

Corcovado said:


> ...or why the tweed sport coat appears to be 1 or 2 sizes too small.
> 
> This appears to be another example of dressing the model not in a sensible outfit but with as much product as possible so as to get the most advertising out of a single photo.


You're probably right, but at least sometimes Ralph's many-layers style looks reasonably good, even if a bit forced, but this outfit is a visual mess. Why have your company's clothes represented so poorly?


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Corcovado said:


> ...or why the tweed sport coat appears to be 1 or 2 sizes too small.
> 
> This appears to be another example of dressing the model not in a sensible outfit but with as much product as possible so as to get the most advertising out of a single photo.


They might as well have tied a sweater around his waist and a teddy bear muffler around his neck.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Peak and Pine

Fading Fast said:


> From a recent Ralph email:
> View attachment 69383
> View attachment 69385
> View attachment 69387


My thanks to Fading Fast for converting his Ralph emails from the original eyeball ripping format.


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> My thanks to Fading Fast for converting his Ralph emails from the original eyeball ripping format.


Hear, hear! That format was far too painful for my aging peepers.


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> I really like this one....I think my reaction is primarily based on all those differing facial expressions. However, on the possible downside, is that fellow at the front bottom of the shot wearing sweatpants with that rig? Please tell me it isn't so, Joe!


I think he is ready to descend into the Laurentian Abyss (there's one off the east coast of Canada, as Navy submariners will tell us, and another they may not know about in Ralphland). Sweat pants and tweed jackets are one way to do it, but it gets awfully cold down there.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 69557


Preppies on the prowl? Each of the three seem to share the same bad habit of jamming hinds in their pockets. The guy in the center concerns me the most, as it appears he has his hand in 'Mr. Turtleneck's' pocket, rather than in his own pocket....and that just can't be good! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

drpeter said:


> Hear, hear! That format was far too painful for my aging peepers.


I appreciate it, but I didn't do a thing, this one just happened not to rotate.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 69733


The RPL product offering pictured above looks very similar to a black and red buffalo checked Woolrich cloth shirt Mrs Eagle made for me, almost 20 years ago.. While the above is a shirt-jac, what SWMBO made me didn't include a throat latch and a few other features Ralph has added in the above garment. Nice shirt, for sure.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 69793


I love that cardigan vest...that beefy knit really adds to the allure and utility of the garment. I am struggling to understand why the model left his OCBD untucked and at least partially tucked his knit polo shirt? I seem forever bemused by Ralph.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> I love that cardigan vest...that beefy knit really adds to the allure and utility of the garment. I am struggling to understand why the model left his OCBD untucked and at least partially tucked his knit polo shirt? I seem forever bemused by Ralph.


I have a theory that Ralph is trying to take the whole notion of sprezzatura and use it all over the place. Sometimes it works in a weird way, like the occasional popped collar, but not often.


----------



## Corcovado

The necktie over the polo shirt, which is over the button down shirt, is a look whose time has come.


----------



## Fading Fast

From a Ralph email yesterday:








Usually, with these rotating images, I wish it would stop longer on each, but I don't see anything here that I want to look at any closer.


----------



## Corcovado

IMO the model in the yellow coat is at least wearing a happy facial expression that matches the happy, colorful ensemble he's dressed in.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> From a Ralph email yesterday:
> View attachment 69875
> 
> Usually, with these rotating images, I wish it would stop longer on each, but I don't see anything here that I want to look at any closer.


Someone, please save me from myself....I really like that yellow puffy jacket. Perhaps not enough to buy it...at least I hope not! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Someone, please save me from myself....I really like that yellow puffy jacket. Perhaps not enough to buy it...at least I hope not! LOL.


It's funny, but we all, or most of us I'd guess, have a few things like that - things we like that don't seem to fit in with the rest of our style.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

From Ralph this weekend.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 70293


I am a died in the wool "Bear's Fan", but I'm not sure those are the Bear's to which I am referring. It's time to bring back Mike Ditka! LOL.


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> I am a died in the wool "Bear's Fan", but I'm not sure those are the Bear's to which I am referring. It's time to bring back Mike Ditka! LOL.


His ski sweaters are cute as heck on him though.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Peak and Pine

^^^

That may be the worst sweater collar I've ever seen, and while having not personally witnessed the medieval practice of a severed head on a pike, I think it may look something like that.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

He forgot to roll his collar and cuffs. Properly worn it would not be as jarring. Of course it says something about Ralph, the photographer, and the model for letting those things pass.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 70515


Jeez Louise, at 0914 hours it's 61 degrees just outside my study window. I broke out in a sweat just looking at that sweater! LOL.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Jeez Louise, at 0914 hours it's 61 degrees just outside my study window. I broke out in a sweat just looking at that sweater! LOL.


 I own Ralph's 2001 version of that sweater and, yes, it is insanely warm. On a super cold day, it's great, but otherwise, as you note, you just boil in it.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Peak and Pine

^^^
Ain't nothing wrong with that.
Or this...


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 70939


One of Ralph's better ads. The tie bar is a nice, but seldom seen touch.


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> One of Ralph's better ads. The tie bar is a nice, but seldom seen touch.


I never used a tie bar, but now wish I had now and then just to have experienced it. You really don't know how you'll feel about something until you've tried it out for a bit. I love collar pins and tab collars, but hate collar "clips" (the ones that just slide over the ends of the collar) as they detach now and then. Love side adjustors on pants but am mixed about braces. You only get to really know what you think about stuff by trying it out for awhile so that you truly learn how it works and feels.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> I never used a tie bar, but now wish I had now and then just to have experienced it. You really don't know how you'll feel about something until you've tried it out for a bit. I love collar pins and tab collars, but hate collar "clips" (the ones that just slide over the ends of the collar) as they detach now and then. Love side adjustors on pants but am mixed about braces. You only get to really know what you think about stuff by trying it out for awhile so that you truly learn how it works and feels.


I share each and all of those preferences. I tried a few tie bars and clips aeons ago and concluded in the sixties that I was more comfortable with a bit of sprezz. They were big with naval officers, usually with a mockup of your ship or at least your type of ship. They looked pretty sharp with khakis.


----------



## Peak and Pine

I don't think it's such a big learning curve to wearing a tie bar. You just stick it on. I have never worn a tie without a bar, a pin or a tack, all in the interest of shooing away the flops. Below, standard issue here, you get it along with your Prep papers and birth certificate...


----------



## eagle2250

Vecchio Vespa said:


> I share each and all of those preferences. I tried a few tie bars and clips aeons ago and concluded in the sixties that I was more comfortable with a bit of sprezz. They were big with naval officers, usually with a mockup of your ship or at least your type of ship. They looked pretty sharp with khakis.


Somewhere in this hoard I have tie bars fixed with various rank insignia earned, as I was moved up the chain of command in the USAF. They are around here somewhere, but I wouldn't know where to start looking. Perhaps at some point in the future the kids will be including them in a garage sale. LOL. .


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 71041


A surprisingly handsome patchwork tweed! Now if he would just fold down his collar........


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 71143
> 
> View attachment 71145
> 
> View attachment 71147


Are those boots the guy in the shirt-jacket is wearing a pair of rust suede western boots. If so, nice choice!


----------



## Fading Fast

A little Sunday bear action from Ralph.


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## 215339

I forgot what thread it was in, but consider this part 2 of the polo coat discussion. From Drake's.


__
http://instagr.am/p/CW3Qvv0oOq-/

I'm liking this look a lot. I've had to do up the throat latch on a coat when it's very cold and windy, but it never looks great. I've never thought about wrapping a scarf on the outside, just for visual effect.

Looks more dynamic and less flat. Great for my vanity in winter. I'm also liking the huge chest pocket flap more and more.


----------



## Tweedlover

Oldsarge said:


> View attachment 71199


Given the tartan decor and stag horn chandelier, I'd consider this a "Scottish country manor" look.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast

This well-built man would look so much better in a jacket that actually fit him: a size or two up and, guessing, two inches longer.


----------



## drpeter

I have a theory (as Sherlock Holmes might say): I think trends in men's fashions are actually a conformity test: A way of checking on the level of conformity among members of a social group, perhaps even an entire society. The questions of interest concern the willingness of people to go along with whatever new modifications the arbiters of fashion might choose to hand down through their "collections", which they announce every few season. 

The true conformity test comes when the changes are extreme. There have been periods in men's fashions when suits, sportcoats and trousers were all extremely loose and baggy, and then, there have been periods when they were extremely tight (as in the example above). If most members of said social group go along with those changes, then we can be assured that conformity is still strong within the group.

The problem with this theory is that it might apply only to certain social groups, and rarely to society writ large. The average fellow goes about completely oblivious to all of this, since he dresses in pretty much the same manner no matter what the arbiters of fashion decree!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## FiscalDean

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 71637


Is that a watch chain dangling from the lapel?


----------



## Fading Fast

FiscalDean said:


> Is that a watch chain dangling from the lapel?


Most probably, yes. In the '20s and '30s (and, less often, later), you see some men did keep their pocket watches in their suit's or sport coat's breast pocket with its chain or strap looped through the lapel's button.

Here's an article about it: The-Way-You-Wear-Your-Watch

Here's an example from the movies:  #481 

And a few more possible ones:  #4,269 ,  #4,913 ,  #4,722 ,


----------



## Tweedlover

I was given the cliched pocket watch upon my retirement nearly 3 years ago which I enjoy. However, I attach the chain to the lip of the lower pocket of my tweed and camel hair sport coats with just a bit of the chain hanging out.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 71903


Like the jacket...love the cardigan!


----------



## Fading Fast

eagle2250 said:


> Like the jacket...love the cardigan!


I really like this one too.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 72091


Nice bit of 1910 and he has just finished dealing with the ball he hooked into the creek that runs along the number 8 fairway. Drying out at the clubhouse at the turn.


----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 72091


I appreciate every component of that rig (including the shoes), but wish the model just knew how to pair and wear them properly!


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## Corcovado

I understand going sans socks, and I understand wearing a necktie. I don't understand wearing a necktie (and a vest!) when going sockless. It's sort of analogous to the mullet haircut: business in the front, party in the back. This guy's autumn above the waist, and summer at the ankles.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 72365


Never a fan of a knit polo/rugby shirt worn over an OCBD, but I do like the Rugby shirt and I'm pretty sure I would like that OCBD, if I could see a bit more of it. The logo plastered wind breaker is a deal breaker for me. Hell's bells, if the whole truth were known I eventually ended up being too discreet/embarrassed to continue wearing my old schools letter jacket. Why would I wear Ralph's? LOL.


----------



## ran23

Today I delivered chocolates to my "venders". I had decided on a Navy SC, due to the weather, I choose a RL brown sport coat and dark brown herringbone trousers with braces. High lighting a Brooks Red/Navy and Yellow plaid tie for the season. Light rain, capped it all off with my tan trench coat and tan Fedora.


----------



## Fading Fast




----------



## eagle2250

Fading Fast said:


> View attachment 72423


The duffel coat is a winner, but the patchwork tartan sport coat....not so much! Just saying........


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 72863
> 
> View attachment 72865
> 
> View attachment 72867
> 
> View attachment 72869


That is one great looking B3 flight jacket...and the only design I have ever seen with toggle fastener on a flight jacket. From a design perspective it is quite possibly a great move, but from a functional perspective, I'm not so sure.


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 73165
> 
> View attachment 73167


The jacket and shirt have definite appeal, but please don't ever do that to a button down collar! Some might call it a 'holy abomination.' LOL.


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 73241
> 
> View attachment 73243
> 
> View attachment 73245
> 
> View attachment 73247


A very handsome Faire Isle sweater and that fishing jacket (I think) has some real appeal to it. However Ralph can keep those plaid pleated trousers.


----------



## Peak and Pine

_*Posted primarily for the stool. _


----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 73373
> 
> View attachment 73375
> 
> View attachment 73377
> 
> View attachment 73379
> 
> 
> _*Posted primarily for the stool. _


LOL, we have three of those stools tucked in to our kitchen island.

PS: The madras jacket and the madras vest worn together is just a bit too heavy with the madras for one rig, but wearing no socks when wearing a sport jacket, vest and tie is just wrong!


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 73241
> 
> View attachment 73243
> 
> View attachment 73245
> 
> View attachment 73247


This is what I would call a *Frankenjacket,* something seemingly built out of various bits of (salvaged?) clothing. Or maybe it was all intentional, and pockets off alignment, etc., were all part of the master plan.

It does occur to me that one of two things is happening: Either Ralph and/or his designers are showing signs of cognitive decline in those parts of their minds that have to do with design; or, they are on the verge of a radical new world of fashion where all the accepted standards are chucked out of the window. There is also a third possibility, in all fairness: Maybe my own sense of style has become comprehensively outmoded, and this is the new future of clothing.

But I like those trousers. And that Fair Isle sweater. Deliriously free of patches of alternate cloth, or pockets off-kilter...


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Tweedlover

eagle2250 said:


> That is one great looking B3 flight jacket...and the only design I have ever seen with toggle fastener on a flight jacket. From a design perspective it is quite possibly a great move, but from a functional perspective, I'm not so sure.


Fantastic coat. Cap, not so much.


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Peak and Pine

Crest aside (I don't mind it), classic seaside wear, Breton jersey and a navy blazer, summer in coastal New England.


----------



## Tweedlover

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 74269


Admittedly I'm not a fan of their teddy bear look. But, this looks particularly god awful to me.


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 74269


Gawd help me....I think I might have toget me one of those PRL Faire Isle designs! LOL.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> Gawd help me....I think I might have toget me one of those PRL Faire Isle designs! LOL.


I would love a Fair Isle vest but not that one.


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## ran23

I have never owned a denim jacket, at 67, not a time to start.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

ran23 said:


> I have never owned a denim jacket, at 67, not a time to start.


Ever owned a super skinny tie?


----------



## Tweedlover

ran23 said:


> I have never owned a denim jacket, at 67, not a time to start.


Had 1 like that in my 20's, some 45 years ago. I'd disposed of it because I grew out of it literally. Now shrunk down to where it would probably fit again and wish I'd thrown it into the back of a closet and hung onto it.


----------



## Peak and Pine

_







_


----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 74471
> 
> View attachment 74473
> 
> View attachment 74475
> 
> _
> View attachment 74477
> _


I rather like the concept/design of the canvas blazer, but the fit of the one in the pics above, not so much! I prefer a bit of room in my fit!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 74471
> 
> View attachment 74473
> 
> View attachment 74475
> 
> _
> View attachment 74477
> _


I know Ralph likes the look, but I have worn similar tassel loafers since the sixties but never without socks or even with khakis.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Vecchio Vespa said:


> I know Ralph likes the look, but I have worn similar tassel loafers since the sixties but never without socks or even with khakis.


I run all these pics through software for color balance, cropping, close-ups and framing and should the next subject be sockless, I'll keep you in mind and crop off the feet. 😀


----------



## ran23

My Brother did give me a denim jacket from his work. More like a chore coat. I asked about it, 'This is given to inmates on arrival'. He was a correctional guard.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Peak and Pine said:


> I run all these pics through software for color balance, cropping, close-ups and framing and should the next subject be sockless, I'll keep you in mind and crop off the feet. 😀


I can safely view them. I have monitored this thread long enough to have developed good immunity. I just cannot wear them that way, chiefly because my tassel loafers are so much heavier and more stiff than the shoes I do wear sockless, chiefly blucher type camp shoes and decrepit Sperrys and occasionally LHS.


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Vecchio Vespa

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 74625
> 
> View attachment 74627
> 
> View attachment 74629


Nice patches, but it needs another. Reminds me of my Levis in college.


----------



## Tweedlover

Vecchio Vespa said:


> Nice patches, but it needs another. Reminds me of my Levis in college.


Anyone who can afford what RL charges for watches can afford to ditch clothes needing a patch in favor of new.  Though will say I like the splash of blue the patches provide.


----------



## drpeter

Tweedlover said:


> Anyone who can afford what RL charges for watches can afford to ditch clothes needing a patch in favor of new.  Though will say I like the splash of blue the patches provide.


Those patches are not needed -- they are not put on to cover real wear and tear. They are built into the manufacture, rather like elbow patches on new sports jackets, darkened toecaps on new leather shoes to mimic aging, and distressing all sorts of clothes and furniture in general. It's really a kind of fakery, isn't it?

I've said this before, but finding a fashionable story in the actual tribulations of ordinary people (wearing patched clothing, for example, or ripped jeans, by those who can easily afford new clothes) and then monetising it smacks of the worst excesses of our economy. To me, it seems to be making a mockery of the needs of those less fortunate, perhaps. Note that this is different from patching clothes to cover a real tear or rip and extend the life of the garment -- that is a different thing altogether.


----------



## Tweedlover

I agree fully drpeter. Never cared for their patched, paint splashed or "pre-stained" clothes. I occasionally like to look at the vintage section of the RL website and was mortified to see them selling an old cowboy hat that looked like it had fallen crown first into a tar puddle. Don't know why the original owner hung onto it long enough to get it to them as opposed to tossing it away. Looked hideous while RL described the stains as "patina" while selling it for $375 of course.


----------



## 215339

drpeter said:


> Those patches are not needed -- they are not put on to cover real wear and tear. They are built into the manufacture, rather like elbow patches on new sports jackets, darkened toecaps on new leather shoes to mimic aging, and distressing all sorts of clothes and furniture in general. It's really a kind of fakery, isn't it?
> 
> I've said this before, but finding a fashionable story in the actual tribulations of ordinary people (wearing patched clothing, for example, or ripped jeans, by those who can easily afford new clothes) and then monetising it smacks of the worst excesses of our economy. To me, it seems to be making a mockery of the needs of those less fortunate, perhaps. Note that this is different from patching clothes to cover a real tear or rip and extend the life of the garment -- that is a different thing altogether.


I'd say this is open to interpretation, but hopefully we are on the same page.

The question of "need" is an interesting one, as I'd say most aesthetics in classic menswear aren't a "need", but a "want". Taking it to the furthest slippery slope, we'd only be wearing black down jackets all throughout winter. Practical, but dull and devoid of personality and language.

I don't think the story of fakery or authenticity holds up in today's world anymore. Ralph Lauren pretty much reinvented a lot of trad and ivy aesthetics, and has held more influence than more "genuine" WASP-y companies. The fall of Brooks is great evidence of this.

A lot of intentionally patched clothing/patchwork looks beautiful and has a unique look to it. To me it looks one-of-a-kind, and gives off cozy vibes. Some remind me of a grandma's quilt.


























I bought a vintage denim jacket that someone clearly wore and has put fades on over the years. I care about the look and fades, and the potential story behind it, so it works perfect for me.

An office ninja wouldn't be able to put on "genuine" distressing for their clothing, so I don't find it fake if someone wears a pre-distressed denim jacket. Denim jackets have been so far removed culturally from workwear that almost everyone has one.


----------



## drpeter

Tweedlover said:


> I agree fully drpeter. Never cared for their patched, paint splashed or "pre-stained" clothes. I occasionally like to look at the vintage section of the RL website and was mortified to see them selling an old cowboy hat that looked like it had fallen crown first into a tar puddle. Don't know why the original owner hung onto it long enough to get it to them as opposed to tossing it away. Looked hideous while RL described the stains as "patina" while selling it for $375 of course.


Clearly a racket, we should report it to the DOJ for racketeering, LOL.


----------



## drpeter

delicious_scent said:


> I'd say this is open to interpretation, but hopefully we are on the same page.
> 
> The question of "need" is an interesting one, as I'd say most aesthetics in classic menswear aren't a "need", but a "want". Taking it to the furthest slippery slope, we'd only be wearing black down jackets all throughout winter. Practical, but dull and devoid of personality and language.
> 
> I don't think the story of fakery or authenticity holds up in today's world anymore. Ralph Lauren pretty much reinvented a lot of trad and ivy aesthetics, and has held more influence than more "genuine" WASP-y companies. The fall of Brooks is great evidence of this.
> 
> A lot of intentionally patched clothing/patchwork looks beautiful and has a unique look to it. To me it looks one-of-a-kind, and gives off cozy vibes. Some remind me of a grandma's quilt.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought a vintage denim jacket that someone clearly wore and has put fades on over the years. I care about the look and fades, and the potential story behind it, so it works perfect for me.
> 
> An office ninja wouldn't be able to put on "genuine" distressing for their clothing, so I don't find it fake if someone wears a pre-distressed denim jacket. Denim jackets have been so far removed culturally from workwear that almost everyone has one.


I suppose we will have to disagree about the distressing/aging process. I find genuinely aged or distressed clothing (items that are old, and therefore went through natural wear and tear) to be fine. They do have aesthetic appeal and it would be appropriate for me to wear such items -- I have plenty of them, in fact, because I shop at thrift and vintage places. What I object to is a new item being artificially aged -- that is not my cup of tea. Again, this is personal style and preference.

Somewhat related: One can change one's views on certain things. I used to have only clothing and shoes with natural materials (cotton, wool, leather, all 100%). In recent years, I have become more tolerant of a certain amount of artificial fibres in my clothing (I have not gone to artifical material for shoes, yet). If tastefully integrated these blended materials can be nice and wear well. The reason I have changed my views is not entirely, or even partly, aesthetic. It's sustainability. The processing of cotton, wool and leather and the byproducts generated in that activity are extremely harmful to the environment according to the experts. So, perhaps acceptance of some artificial materials might be tolerable.


----------



## 215339

drpeter said:


> I suppose we will have to disagree about the distressing/aging process. I find genuinely aged or distressed clothing (items that are old, and therefore went through natural wear and tear) to be fine. They do have aesthetic appeal and it would be appropriate for me to wear such items -- I have plenty of them, in fact, because I shop at thrift and vintage places. What I object to is a new item being artificially aged -- that is not my cup of tea. Again, this is personal style and preference.
> 
> Somewhat related: One can change one's views on certain things. I used to have only clothing and shoes with natural materials (cotton, wool, leather, all 100%). In recent years, I have become more tolerant of a certain amount of artificial fibres in my clothing (I have not gone to artifical material for shoes, yet). If tastefully integrated these blended materials can be nice and wear well. The reason I have changed my views is not entirely, or even partly, aesthetic. It's sustainability. The processing of cotton, wool and leather and the byproducts generated in that activity is extremely harmful to the environment according to the experts. So, perhaps acceptance of some artificial materials might be tolerable.


Artificial aging through washing does contribute more waste and energy from what I heard. Unfortunately I'm a big fan of my washed denim shirts.

Yes, processing natural materials can be surprisingly harmful for the environment, denim and indigo being a great example. If I repeatedly buy 100% natural materials, I am still creating consumption and demand as well on top of it.

It's likely better off to buy used as you've been doing.

Ideally, the best thing to do is to stop buying clothing period, but that one is a tough pill to swallow.


----------



## drpeter

delicious_scent said:


> Ideally, the best thing to do is to stop buying clothing period


LOL, I have not bought brand new clothing (shirts, trousers, jackets, shoes, belts) from a retail shop in ages. All of it is from vintage or thrift shops, sometimes New Old Stock. I do buy socks and underwear brand new -- one has to draw a line there!


----------



## Tweedlover

drpeter said:


> LOl, I have not bought brand new clothing (shirts, trousers, jackets, shoes, belts) from a retail shop in ages. All of it is from vintage or thrift shops, sometimes New Old Stock. I do buy socks and underwear brand new -- one has to draw a line there!


Like you, I've seldom bought shirts, pants, or sweaters new in the past 10 years or so. Did buy 1 new sweatshirt via catalogue this year because I liked the color which was rather unique compared to what I usually see. Couple of years ago needed some new jeans and bought WalMart store brand for a whopping $11 each.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> I suppose we will have to disagree about the distressing/aging process. I find genuinely aged or distressed clothing (items that are old, and therefore went through natural wear and tear) to be fine. They do have aesthetic appeal and it would be appropriate for me to wear such items -- I have plenty of them, in fact, because I shop at thrift and vintage places. What I object to is a new item being artificially aged -- that is not my cup of tea. Again, this is personal style and preference.
> 
> Somewhat related: One can change one's views on certain things. I used to have only clothing and shoes with natural materials (cotton, wool, leather, all 100%). In recent years, I have become more tolerant of a certain amount of artificial fibres in my clothing (I have not gone to artifical material for shoes, yet). If tastefully integrated these blended materials can be nice and wear well. The reason I have changed my views is not entirely, or even partly, aesthetic. It's sustainability. The processing of cotton, wool and leather and the byproducts generated in that activity is extremely harmful to the environment according to the experts. So, perhaps acceptance of some artificial materials might be tolerable.


It helps if you seek out organic cotton, grown in a much more earth friendly way. I agree on the issue of fake patches. I foolishly thought they were needed. I have patched pocket edges similarly.


----------



## eagle2250

Vecchio Vespa said:


> It helps if you seek out organic cotton, grown in a much more earth friendly way. I agree on the issue of fake patches. I foolishly thought they were needed. I have patched pocket edges similarly.


My sweet Mama used to patch my trousers and occasionally shirts, but she always used patching material that perfectly or at least almost perfectly matched the fabric of the garment being mended. To my eye, that seemed the right way to do things.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

eagle2250 said:


> My sweet Mama used to patch my trousers and occasionally shirts, but she always used patching material that perfectly or at least almost perfectly matched the fabric of the garment being mended. To my eye, that seemed the right way to do things.


Mine had a bag of sewing scraps we used to patch things. When something needed a patch, socks needed darning, or collars needed turning, we were shown how and free to use her sewing kit, scrap bag, darning egg, and sewing machine.


----------



## drpeter

Vecchio Vespa said:


> Mine had a bag of sewing scraps we used to patch things. When something needed a patch, socks needed darning, or collars needed turning, we were shown how and free to use her sewing kit, scrap bag, darning egg, and sewing machine.


Wow, your Mum could turn collars on shirts? That is most impressive.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> Wow, your Mum could turn collars on shirts? That is most impressive.


And taught me how! It is actually pretty easy. Remove the stitching that holds the collar in, pull it out and turn it over, and re-stitch it.


----------



## drpeter

Hehe, my tailoring skills are so minimal, that is still most impressive!


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

The hardest part is removing the old stitching without cutting anything else. 


drpeter said:


> Hehe, my tailoring skills are so minimal, that is still most impressive.


----------



## eagle2250

drpeter said:


> Hehe, my tailoring skills are so minimal, that is still most impressive!


LOL, I faced the same challenges, but then I married Mrs Eagle! She does most of my seamstress work and has in fact created new garments for me (to be honest the new garments have been limited to shirts). She has saved us a small fortune in alterations! LOL.


----------



## Old Road Dog

Have we gone from "more from Ralph to less from Ralph, to nothing from Ralph"?


----------



## drpeter

Good point, @Old Road Dog.

I think one of the forum members who posted very frequently on this thread was @Fading Fast. His last post was on Dec 17th and, from what I understand, he has been unable to sign in on AAAC. There was some discussion of this issue a few days back. His absence may have something to do with the new software system introduced after AAAC changed ownership, and I believe Andy and Mike are looking into the sign-in problem. I wonder if they have any new information regarding someone who was a good contributor and enthusiastic discussant on AAAC, or the sign-in issues in general. Faders is not the only person who has experienced this problem, others have mentioned it, and some have been able to sign back in.


----------



## Vecchio Vespa

drpeter said:


> Good point, @Old Road Dog.
> 
> I think one of the forum members who posted very frequently on this thread was @Fading Fast. His last post was on Dec 17th and, from what I understand, he has been unable to sign in on AAAC. There was some discussion of this issue a few days back. His absence may have something to do with the new software system introduced after AAAC changed ownership, and I believe Andy and Mike are looking into the sign-in problem. I wonder if they have any new information regarding someone who was a good contributor and enthusiastic discussant on AAAC, or the sign-in issues in general. Faders is not the only person who has experienced this problem, others have mentioned it, and some have been able to sign back in.


Faders was a prolific and thoughtful contributor and commenter, especially in the Ralph thread, the Illustrations thread, the Tweed Season thread, and Movies thread. His absence is so significant that I find myself much less motivated to check new posts. I find it inconceivable that no one has come up with a solution in the span of a month and is thereby effectively strangling this site through inaction. Others have certainly done fine work to help keep things running with some fresh content, but it is just not the same without Faders. The commenter who noted that the thread has devolved into endless discussion of BB and OC and pictures of bespoke clothing we will never own was too close to the truth for comfort. Increasingly I find the clothing related discussions on SWNE and, amazingly, Badger and Blade (a shaving site with Haberdashery as an "other stuff" board) more entertaining and varied.


----------



## eagle2250

^^
In the thread, "Important Announcement: New Ownership" thread in the Timeless Style Forum the new owners have asked for input on which members are possibly effected by the site lockouts addressed above. Clearly Fading Fast and wunghaus have been affected,..are there others to report?


----------



## drpeter

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> In the thread, "Important Announcement: New Ownership" thread in the Timeless Style Forum the new owners have asked for input on which members are possibly effected by the site lockouts addressed above. Clearly Fading Fast and wunghaus have been affected,..are there others to report?


It's not easy to find out because if someone does not post, it could be because they are doing other things, or are taking a break. The only way we will know is when they communicate their sign-in problem to someone who is still posting here, and for that, they need to have email access to that someone. That's how we found out about Faders, other than missing him for weeks here, when previously he had been posting multiple times daily.

This is one of the reasons why I suggested exchanging email addresses with friends here, so if we are locked out, we will at least be able to contact someone who isn't, and they can alert the forum owners or moderators. Let's hope the owners will see this thread and respond with the latest news on this front.


----------



## smmrfld

Vecchio Vespa said:


> Faders was a prolific and thoughtful contributor and commenter, especially in the Ralph thread, the Illustrations thread, the Tweed Season thread, and Movies thread. His absence is so significant that I find myself much less motivated to check new posts. I find it inconceivable that no one has come up with a solution in the span of a month and is thereby effectively strangling this site through inaction. Others have certainly done fine work to help keep things running with some fresh content, but it is just not the same without Faders. The commenter who noted that the thread has devolved into endless discussion of BB and OC and pictures of bespoke clothing we will never own was too close to the truth for comfort. Increasingly I find the clothing related discussions on SWNE and, amazingly, Badger and Blade (a shaving site with Haberdashery as an "other stuff" board) more entertaining and varied.


Agree...rapidly diminishing activity here, and much of what still exists is in the realm of "well, I haven't really bought anything in decades, but...". Sites such as Styleforum offer a much more varied group of participants and vendors. Fora such as this one are a dying breed anyway and, given the demographics, it's hard to see how new ownership will make this site financially viable.


----------



## 215339

smmrfld said:


> Agree...rapidly diminishing activity here, and much of what still exists is in the realm of "well, I haven't really bought anything in decades, but...". Sites such as Styleforum offer a much more varied group of participants and vendors. Fora such as this one are a dying breed anyway and, given the demographics, it's hard to see how new ownership will make this site financially viable.


This may be heresy, but I'll post it anyway.

I do think the contributors left here would add a lot to Styleforum's classic menswear forum if they would like to join and post. I've enjoyed posting on AAAC and SF for years now.


----------



## smmrfld

delicious_scent said:


> This may be heresy, but I'll post it anyway.
> 
> I do think the contributors left here would add a lot to Styleforum's classic menswear forum if they would like to join and post. I've enjoyed posting on AAAC and SF for years now.


Agree completely&#8230;there's already great engagement at SF (just look at the Alden thread as an example) and the dwindling participants here would likely find it entertaining and informative.


----------



## 215339

smmrfld said:


> Agree completely&#8230;there's already great engagement at SF (just look at the Alden thread as an example) and the dwindling participants here would likely find it entertaining and informative.


This thread came to mind for me.

https://www.styleforum.net/threads/the-official-classic-mens-coats-thread.332290/page-24
It feels like the SF counterpart thread to a lot of AAAC threads. Actually less active than our variations and could easily gain more inspiration from us.

SF itself could use its own Ralph thread or Apparel Arts thread too.


----------



## drpeter

delicious_scent said:


> This may be heresy, but I'll post it anyway.
> 
> I do think the contributors left here would add a lot to Styleforum's classic menswear forum if they would like to join and post. I've enjoyed posting on AAAC and SF for years now.


I have been a member of Styleforum for some time, but have not posted in a long while. I will have to go back and check out some of the threads there.


----------



## Tweedlover

delicious_scent said:


> This thread came to mind for me.
> 
> https://www.styleforum.net/threads/the-official-classic-mens-coats-thread.332290/page-24
> It feels like the SF counterpart thread to a lot of AAAC threads. Actually less active than our variations and could easily gain more inspiration from us.
> 
> SF itself could use its own Ralph thread or Apparel Arts thread too.


Agree that SF should have an RL thread in their CM section. Only an RRL thread exists in streetwear.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Disregarding the above traitors, our OWN Ralph thread marches on...










Color coded fly fronts, so you can more easily find what's inside.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Speaking for the hopefully soon-to-be reanimated @Fading Fast, _What's with this bear thing?_


----------



## Peak and Pine

This is billed as chambray, and maybe if you were operating on something other than this Betty Crocker cell phone, it would look like that.










The white shirt and square go good with this. I don't do popped collars, but I'll allow him to.


----------



## drpeter

*Some news from Fading Fast*:

I signed on to The Fedora Lounge yesterday (I have been a lurker there, not posting much) since I knew Mark (Faders) was a member there. I sent a PM to him about the lockout problem and whether he had any updates from the new owners of AAAC on the issue. He replied and said he had not heard from anyone for a month and then yesterday (presumably after my raising the issue in this thread following Old Road Dog's question) he had help from Andy and Flanderian. He got a new temporary password, and he was going to use that in a day or two to see if he could get back in.

He also mentioned that he had not spent much time on the lockout issue, being very busy with both work and some family matters. I wrote back to say we would be delighted to have him back. One hopes that, once he signs back in, he can set up a permanent password.

I also expressed my wish (and I'm doing so again, here) that the new owners would post a statement about how this password problem is being handled, and one hopes, fixed soon. I don't think we can afford to lose members here, especially since there seems to be an attrition already in progress, as some of the earlier comments indicate.


----------



## 215339

drpeter said:


> I have been a member of Styleforum for some time, but have not posted in a long while. I will have to go back and check out some of the threads there.


There is an active thrifting thread that may be of interest.


----------



## drpeter

Peak and Pine said:


> What's with this bear thing


You don't recollect this, Peaks? There was much wailing and gnashing of teeth one time over the bear thing -- last year, I think.


----------



## drpeter

delicious_scent said:


> There is an active thrifting thread that may be of interest.


Thanks, @delicious_scent, I will check it out.


----------



## Peak and Pine

drpeter said:


> You don't recollect this, Peaks? There was much wailing and gnashing of teeth one time over the bear thing -- last year, I think.


I may have worded it obtusely, or you might have missed the italics. I was imagining what @Fading Fast would say, based on what he said each time he saw the Ralph bear.

Below, a very rare piece that you may have to zoom to catch its drift. Sold recently on Etsy for $125...


----------



## Peak and Pine

Five minutes. Worth it.


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Peak and Pine

What's probably best not to wear as you perch on the rocks by a mountain lake...


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## drpeter

Jackets 2 and 3 are fine. The first is too asymmetric for my taste. But I am sure some folks love that.


----------



## Peak and Pine

drpeter said:


> The first is too asymmetric for my taste. But I am sure some folks love that.


I am some folks.


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## Peak and Pine

RL workwear collection, 2018...


----------



## eagle2250

Peak and Pine said:


> RL workwear collection, 2018...
> 
> View attachment 76643
> 
> View attachment 76639
> View attachment 76637


I particularly like the jacket in the top photo and the bottom photo would be possible for me, absent that sweat soaked and stained cowboy hat. Wish I could get a better look at that cardigan.


----------



## Peak and Pine




----------



## fred johnson

Uncle Ralph does some things right while he way over does others.


----------



## Peak and Pine

Cotton and poly, duck down filled, the fur's not real. $329. Sold out


----------



## rl1856

Peak and Pine said:


> View attachment 76869


PRL makes great Rugby Shirts !

Heavy fabric, true rubber buttons, great fit. I love wearing these during the winter.


----------



## ran23

The Spring weather is perfect for my Navy Chaps light jacket.


----------



## Tweedlover

Good to see posts about RL-my favorite design house.


----------



## Peak and Pine

This Spring RL put together a collection exclusively for Blacks...Wha?...and could get away with it because it was a collegiate throw back collection in honor of two historically Black schools.

@drpeter referenced this earlier this year. Below, a few pics from the collection....

































Inreresting not a button down in sight, and all jacket ensembles without a tie have the collars outside the jackets. This harkens to a time we may all miss, or missed out on.


----------



## drpeter

Thanks for posting these, Peaks. I like the great trousers with forward pleats. And I do like club collars, I used to have a few shirts with those collars. Somehow, I don't think club collars ever really caught on very much in recent decades, although I recollect a brief period in the late seventies or early eighties when they came back into fashion. To my mind, they are associated more with the early twentieth century.


----------



## Oldsarge




----------



## Old Road Dog

Hi guys! Just checking in on the latest RL.  I recently met with a few of my old Polo associates, and they confirmed that POLO is pretty much a company store operation these days..... None of those near me.


----------



## zzdocxx

Just scanned past the images on this page.

Let's face it, if you are very good-looking you can wear about anything and it will look great!

Because some of this stuff would never pass muster if posted by a "forumite" asking for a critique.


----------



## Tweedlover

zzdocxx said:


> Just scanned past the images on this page.
> 
> Let's face it, if you are very good-looking you can wear about anything and it will look great!
> 
> Because some of this stuff would never pass muster if posted by a "forumite" asking for a critique.


Well, nothing wrong with the last image other than the guy forgetting to put on some socks.


----------

