# Made in China



## Spence (Feb 28, 2006)

I'm not talking about the highest end luxery items here, but given that their manufacturing is producing more and more, if the quality or style is there...do you care?

-spence


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

One of my prized possessions is a Kata, the traditional scarf presented on auspicious meetings and departures. I had it wrapped around my neck by his holyness the Dalai Lama, spiritual and temporal leader of the exiled tibetan community. I gladly purchase chinese made goods- from the great chinese diaspora. But People's Army factory # 28 staffed by dissidents and their collaborators Walmart et al I do not.


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## johnnyblazini (Feb 24, 2006)

I am glad to profit from cheap labor. It wont last forever, so enjoy!


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## acidicboy (Feb 17, 2006)

funny, but a couple of decades ago i used to get chinese made apparel- jackets, pyjamas, and of course those black kung-fu shoes. i have the impression they were of good quality, specially those kung-fu shoes that i wore days on end. i dont believe the traditional makers are doing good there in china, too.


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

It's very difficult to generalize. China is, by and large, a very poor country which will go to great lengths to secure manufacturing contracts. This could mean giving extremely cheap bids at the expense of consistency or overall quality. It is true that many companies that choose to manufacture in China do so because of the very low bids and are content with the lower quality. That being said, this is certainly not always true, and it has been noted by more than one industry pundit that Chinese manufacturing quality is slowly on the rise, much as happened in Japan, Korea, and other developing countries of the past (not that Japan and Korea are developing countries _now_). Therefore, judge the product on its own merit, not on its country of origin. This takes more work, but in the end, you'll know whether you're ending up with quality or not.


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## Bob Loblaw (Mar 9, 2006)

I try not to buy anything from China that I do not associate with China. If that means paying more for my items, so be it. The "lowest price at any cost" mentality is one that gets our most cherished clothing manufacturers sending work overseas. Take a stand against Walmartization of our economy and support goods made in your own country, or at least within the G-8.


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## icth (Oct 18, 2006)

I don't buy anything that's made in China. For the fact that I even returned two of my recently purchased monitors from Dell and a piece of turtle neck from Polo Ralph Lauren two days ago, because I was later found out they were made in China. I am not going to deny it such act has been causing me awful lot of troubles and headaches. But I pride myself in such act for not supporting poor quality products as well as a labor abusive country. On a side note, has anyone here seen one of those antique Chinese handkerchiefs? Some of the hand stitching on it is just simply amazing and astonishing. Too bad those are considered as a "lost of art" now.


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## Bob Loblaw (Mar 9, 2006)

icth said:


> I don't buy anything that's made in China. For the fact that I even returned two of my recently purchased monitors from Dell and a piece of turtle neck from Polo Ralph Lauren two days ago, because I was later found out they were made in China.


While I commend your effort I have to ask -- how do you purchase electronic items? I tried to buy a non-chinese radio, for instance, and gave up and settled on a Tivoli.


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## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

As we move ever closer to a true, and at times it increasingly appears a seamless, world economy, it will continue to become increasingly difficult to avoid buying products that were produced overseas or at least made fron raw materials that came from third world locations. Perhaps the best we can do is to allow quality and value to be our guide and honor our sense of social injustice, as such becomes appropriate, in our purchasing decisions.


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## Albert (Feb 15, 2006)

Spence said:


> I'm not talking about the highest end luxery items here, but given that their manufacturing is producing more and more, if the quality or style is there...do you care?


Thinking of it makes me vomit. Although you can't fully avoid it, I try to prevent my skin toughing that kind of stuff.

Made in Taiwan would be just acceptable.


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## Albert (Feb 15, 2006)

Bob Loblaw said:


> While I commend your effort I have to ask -- how do you purchase electronic items? I tried to buy a non-chinese radio, for instance, and gave up and settled on a Tivoli.


Did you think of Blaupunkt, Bosch, Siemens, Philips or Bang & Olufson?


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## Albert (Feb 15, 2006)

johnnyblazini said:


> I am glad to profit from cheap labor. It wont last forever, so enjoy!


I agree that cheap labour is not unlikely to rise living standards in the long-term. Apart from that, I take your statement as an outburst of irony...

;-)


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## tasteful one (Oct 6, 2006)

*Oh dear...politics...*

...not buying something because it's made in China is really silly..and ignorant. We see what happens when we 'naturally' assume that other peoples share our values..or worse, impose them based on that arrogant assumption. $5/week sounds like poverty to us, but for many of the 1.3 billion Chinese, it's the golden opportunity to make some money and support themselves and their families. Better to give it to them than some self entitled, undereducated, overpaid Union Man.

That said, I buy based on the quality of the garment/item regardless of its place of manufacture. There are ways of telling the quality of something...a bit harder than the knee jerk reaction or prejudice of automatically checking the 'Made in' label.


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## Albert (Feb 15, 2006)

tasteful one said:


> ...not buying something because it's made in China is really silly..and ignorant. We see what happens when we 'naturally' assume that other peoples share our values..or worse, impose them based on that arrogant assumption. $5/week sounds like poverty to us, but for many of the 1.3 billion Chinese, it's the golden opportunity to make some money and support themselves and their families. Better to give it to them than some self entitled, undereducated, overpaid Union Man.
> 
> That said, I buy based on the quality of the garment/item regardless of its place of manufacture. There are ways of telling the quality of something...a bit harder than the knee jerk reaction or prejudice of automatically checking the 'Made in' label.


I don't dislike Chinese mass-market garments for political reasons. I recognise that working in the clothing sector represents an opportunity for country people to move to the cities and increase their standard of living in the short-to-medium-term. As a matter of fact, I just find the idea a bit disgusting to wear something on my skin which has been produced in a factory like the ones over there. I think it's gross.


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## Briguy (Aug 29, 2005)

I have a number of Chinese nationals working for me (CPA firm). After getting their green cards, several have returned to China because they could make MORE money there than here. We start out new staff at $50k and these folks were several years into their careers when they left. Of course, professionals are in shorter supply than general labor, but I suspect it is only a matter of time before their labor costs catch up to world standards.


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## Mr. AndyAu (Sep 25, 2006)

I agree with the tasteful one. My company does garment manufacturing in China and quality is on the rise. Refusing to buy goods produced in china is very silly and ignorant. Yes labor cost are low there, also cost of living is very low.


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## Spence (Feb 28, 2006)

Interesting reactions...I'll freely admit I still have a visceral reaction to some items with the made in China label. Perhaps this is a silly perception of value, but it is what it is.

Granted I don't long for a non-Chinese DVD player, as I'm not sure that exists. But when I see a 95 dollar silk necktie that's made in China...something just doesn't feel right.

-spence


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

icth said:


> I don't buy anything that's made in China. For the fact that I even returned two of my recently purchased monitors from Dell and a piece of turtle neck from Polo Ralph Lauren two days ago, because I was later found out they were made in China. I am not going to deny it such act has been causing me awful lot of troubles and headaches. But I pride myself in such act for not supporting poor quality products as well as a labor abusive country. On a side note, has anyone here seen one of those antique Chinese handkerchiefs? Some of the hand stitching on it is just simply amazing and astonishing. Too bad those are considered as a "lost of art" now.


I agree totally. They often have children working in factories under conditions right out of a Dicken's novel.

https://www.globalexchange.org/campaigns/sweatshops/china/

https://www.businessweek.com/2000/00_40/b3701119.htm

I have a rule of where possible only buying products made in a country which protects the basic rights of workers against gross abuse. Also the fact that people want to "take advantage" of the cheap labour means that manufacturers of quality goods are under pressure from a flood of cheap imported goods that despite being cheap are still sold at hyerinflated prices relative to the cost of production, with makers using mass marketing techniques to convince the masses that they have to buy this stuff. The result is quality makers fold or end up selling out and manufacturing similar junk in China etc. I am always worried which quality maker is going to sell out next.

The sad fact is that the big time manufacturers have so brain washed the general populace through advertising with the idea that the Chinese made brand name junk is worth buying that my tailor tells me he gets people enquiring about a bespoke suit thinking that it will cost less than the Hugo Boss at the local department store. He said 10 years ago people knew what a bespoke suit meant and were willing to pay the price but gone are these days.


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## Teacher (Mar 14, 2005)

Albert said:


> Did you think of Blaupunkt, Bosch, Siemens, Philips or Bang & Olufson?


...or McIntosh, Krell, Proceed, Mark Levinson....


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## ice (Sep 2, 2005)

Albert said:


> Did you think of Blaupunkt, Bosch, Siemens, Philips or Bang & Olufson?


Don't think that because the brand is western, the goods aren't from China or contain Chinese-made components. For example, Siemens has been manufacturing in China since the 1930s.

Everyone should purchase goods based on cost, quality, and their own conscience. That is the essence of a free market, and it means that manufacturers have to consider every type of consumer, including the ones that buy based on morals as well as value.

But make sure your opinions are informed, or you will be doing yourself a disservice.

I won't say anything else because this thread is close to belonging in the interchange.


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## lee_44106 (Apr 10, 2006)

Like most poor countries, China is trying to industrialize, at a very accelerated rate. It produces lots of poor quality junk, but I don't think everything made in China is bad. Give it some time


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## samblau (Apr 2, 2005)

I am surprised no one has brought up the effects of name-brands from China. I will buy products made in China, it is hard not to. What I do not like are disposable items purchased because of their low quality. I'd rather buy one $50 blender than a $15 blender 5 times over. That said, how often is the one in the box in Bloomingdales for $100 identical to the $15 one ot the discount store. Marketing isn't always related to quality, hence the Walmartization of the American economy. Even if the compensation/quality was better it is nver good to allow one consumer chain to wield so much power. They are clearly trying to destroy their competition, if successful they would be able to create the market price. Furthermore, those few who searched for quality products may be left in the cold as producing for a niche market would cause other prices to skyrocket or simply end the product. Case in point, I would not buy a Polo RL shirt made in China for the current $60+ when I could buy a similar shirt at Old Navy for $7 just like I would never buy any Lacoste product as I find the "Designed in France" label beyond offensive. I would buy one (Polo) at Marshalls for $20 if I liked the style. I will not buy Z Zegna or Armani Jeans etc. as even if the quality was on par with those products made in most of Europe/USA we all know that the cost of labor is far less and that extra cash is certainly not going to the workers. 

Basically, I wish that product standards and labor wages were increased marginally. Even if prices increased the products would hopefully last longer. 
There is nothing inherently wrong with supporting local economy provided it is not to a fault. Nothing against American Apparell but they are marketing an idea rather than a product. Maybe basic T-shirts should be made in China if all costs mean that they can produce the best shirt at the lowest price. Perhaps Peru as they produce excellent cotton. That said the US economy was founded on manufacturing, there are certainly some products that can be made here and sold here and abroad at a profit. (The trade inbalance does need to be remedied). While I love my Oxxford suit (hoping to add an "s" to that at soem point) there are other producers including some right here in Brooklyn who make excellent products at costs that should be in line with the Europeans. Finally, all of this manufacturing should consider more than just cost, I am a firm believer in environmental equality and paying workers a "living" wage. If those conditions are not met perhaps we should feel some sense of guilt and/or revise our policies.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

tasteful one said:


> ...not buying something because it's made in China is really silly..and ignorant. We see what happens when we 'naturally' assume that other peoples share our values..or worse, impose them based on that arrogant assumption. $5/week sounds like poverty to us, but for many of the 1.3 billion Chinese, it's the golden opportunity to make some money and support themselves and their families. Better to give it to them than some self entitled, undereducated, overpaid Union Man.
> 
> That said, I buy based on the quality of the garment/item regardless of its place of manufacture. There are ways of telling the quality of something...a bit harder than the knee jerk reaction or prejudice of automatically checking the 'Made in' label.


So, the Chinese are just living the life of luxury with this golden opportunity of $5/week? 
Also, what type of education does one need to make clothing? And if Union workers are so overpaid, why don't you quit your job and join the Union?


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## crs (Dec 30, 2004)

I prefer to buy USA-made goods. This is difficult and not always possible. I am no more eager to buy goods made in England or Germany than in China. I do it, but I prefer not to.


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## pt4u67 (Apr 27, 2006)

I don't mind buying Chinese made goods as it is very hard to avoid these days. However when I do I like to pay "made in China" prices for my "made in China" goods.


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Gents,

China bet on the wrong horse. The last 50 years have taught us that the cost pressures on manufacturing never cease and they just become lower and lower. China has already lost some manufacturing jobs to places like Vietnam that offer even cheaper costs. Couple labor cost pressures with adavnces that will take place in robotics and automation over the next twenty years and you see that an economy soley based on manufacturing is in trouble. And just wait until the masses demand political reform and China's massive non-perfoming loan portfolio implodes the banking system.

If the 21st century is the Chinese century than we are all in deep **** bc China will not have an easy time of it in the coming years.


Karl


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## tasteful one (Oct 6, 2006)

Laxplayer said:


> So, the Chinese are just living the life of luxury with this golden opportunity of $5/week?
> Also, what type of education does one need to make clothing? And if Union workers are so overpaid, why don't you quit your job and join the Union?


And your points are....?

Perceptions often reveal alot about what kind of person lurks behind them. Dismissing Chinese goods just because they're made in China is just prejudiced. Knowledgeable consumers know what makes quality, and they use that knowledge in evaluating the product in hand. Regardless of place of manufacture. The finest sweater I have is a silk one from China: The workmanship and attention to detail are superb and simply delightful.

The 'Liberals' out there should realize that their patronage of China not only leads to a higher standard of living for people desperate for that but also to a growing 'consumer class' which, eventually might lead to good things like importation of American goods as well as political freedoms (try keeping a better off population from connecting to satellite dishes and the internet).

Lastly, for example, when one considers that the remaining 3 USA automakers largely owe their decline to simply outrageous deals with the UAW, one cannot help but realize that helping starving Chinese feels 'better' than entitled UAW workers with HS diplomas making $150k/year.

I wouldn't join a Union simply because I have the self respect to be accountable for my own success or failure.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

For those who think me silly for boycotting chicom goods, let me be more blunt. I intend to liberate your home. I claim some vague cultural hegonomy over you, though it's really fear of the nieghbor on the other side. The crucifixes or Menorahs , Bibles and Ikons will be smashed or sold on EBAY. Your parish priest will be tortured and put to death most horribly. Possession of Photographs of the Pope or Head Rabbi of jeruselum will result in immediate execution via a 7.62 Tokarev to the base of your skull. Part of your family will flee to that other nieghbor, to be housed in the hot, unfamiliar garage. Those that remain will eventually become a minority as I move in my own family. They will be forced to learn gaelic, do the menial housework, get less food, medical care and education. When a child is declared the incarnation of a holy person, I will kidnap him and substitute my own selection. I will bulldoze the highest highway in the world ( happily wide enough and graded for the same SUV once stopped by a brave, anonymous protestor in my own backyard patio. ) Oh, I am going to finance this by selling often counterfeited goods or cruddy copies of what was once made by big bad union men who died for 40 hour workweeks, safe working conditions and a host of other 'benefits' we all take for granted. FREE TIBET!


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

Kav,

And let us not forget forget Chinese oppression of the Uighurs. Free East Turkestan. Where is the Muslim outrage over REAL oppression of their co-religionists?

Karl


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

tasteful one said:


> And your points are....?
> 
> Perceptions often reveal alot about what kind of person lurks behind them. Dismissing Chinese goods just because they're made in China is just prejudiced. Knowledgeable consumers know what makes quality, and they use that knowledge in evaluating the product in hand. Regardless of place of manufacture. The finest sweater I have is a silk one from China: The workmanship and attention to detail are superb and simply delightful.
> 
> ...


Actually no, I don't feel better about paying Chinese workers, because the UAW workers (since you pointed them out), and those like them use that hard earned money to invest with me, and that pays _my _salary.

And, what is your issue with education? Those UAW workers _are_ educated...for their job. It's no different than plumbers, electricians, or any other skilled labor. Do you not buy computers because Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard?


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## burnedandfrozen (Mar 11, 2004)

My problem with this is how these companies always whine about how American workers expect too much in wages. Well forgive us for wanting to provide for our families. Nobody expects to live a life of luxury in the blue collar world of work, most are happy with having a tract house in a decent neighborhood, three square meals a day, some form of health insurance, and maybe a little left over for the Satuday night bowling league.
However, companies claim that they would have to raise prices through the roof to pay for this and thus, manufacturing gets sent overseas. As pointed out though, the market is what sets prices so the only people who benifit from this are (as always) upper managment and stock holders.

I remember listening to this man who owned a roofing business. He refuses to hire illegal immigrants although his competition does. He states that while his competitors are paying slave wages to their illegal workers, they continue to charge the same amount as other roofing businesses. So much for the excuse that illegal workers keep prices down. It's just more money into the owners pockets.

Another thing worth mentioning to is how companies like Nike who pay pennies a day to eight year kids in Korea to glue together $100+ shoes pays millions for celebrity endorsments. The greed and hypocricy of all of this is what turns my stomache.

I now leave you to listen to the soothing sounds of Vivaldi on my $250 made in China ipod.


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## Fogey (Aug 27, 2005)

burnedandfrozen said:


> My problem with this is how these companies always whine about how American workers expect too much in wages. Well forgive us for wanting to provide for our families. Nobody expects to live a life of luxury in the blue collar world of work, most are happy with having a tract house in a decent neighborhood, three square meals a day, some form of health insurance, and maybe a little left over for the Satuday night bowling league.
> However, companies claim that they would have to raise prices through the roof to pay for this and thus, manufacturing gets sent overseas. As pointed out though, the market is what sets prices so the only people who benifit from this are (as always) upper managment and stock holders.
> 
> I remember listening to this man who owned a roofing business. He refuses to hire illegal immigrants although his competition does. He states that while his competitors are paying slave wages to their illegal workers, they continue to charge the same amount as other roofing businesses. So much for the excuse that illegal workers keep prices down. It's just more money into the owners pockets.
> ...


Inside ipod's Chinese factories: https://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=14915


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

JLPWCXIII said:


> Inside ipod's Chinese factories: https://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=14915


Sounds like a _golden opportunity_ to me.


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## Sator (Jan 13, 2006)

Laxplayer said:


> Sounds like a _golden opportunity_ to me.


A golden oppurtunity indeed! I am sure those anti-abolitionists thought likewise in the age when enlightened men spoke out against against slavery.

Isn't it funny that this thread has been dumped into The Interchange. I think the ethics of what textile industry products you buy is something as fundamental to being a well presented gentleman in our age as being able to tie your own bow tie. In fact bespoke can be the ultimate in this regard. You can choose to buy a suiting of Australian/New Zealand wool, milled in the UK or Italy (under strict EU labour laws), and made in the room at the back of your tailor's shop where you can inspect the labour conditions of the workers with your very own eyes. The money you pay your tailor goes into paying his tailors, into your local community and to real people - not shareholders - but _real_ people.

Hail bespoke tailoring! Look supremely elegant during the day and sleep easy at night.


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## Rocker (Oct 29, 2004)

I don't necessarily mind buying goods from cheap labor countries. I do have a particular bias AGAINST China and will avoid buying their products if I can. I can't help but get the feeling that as their economy grows they will be "challenging" the U.S. more and more. I've not got over their offensiveness in 2001 dealing with the Navy reconnaissance plane that was forced to land on their territory after colliding with one of their jets - that really pissed me off. I see no reason to send money off to a country that, I suspect, will grow increasingly antagonistic/belligerent to the U.S. I think speding money there will only buy us trouble in the future. Personally, I'd rather the money go in Mexico and South America to build up their economies and hopefully provide them with some incentive to stay home rather than come here illegally. And if not that, at least ship it to India which is democratic. Maybe naive, but there it is......


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## burnedandfrozen (Mar 11, 2004)

*ipod Factory*

I'm not surprised that Apple released a statement after this article appeared.
I'm also not suprised in their response. All companies express faux shock at news of what it's like in the sweatshops where their products are made. What a bunch of phony liars. I'll bet by this time next year ipods will still be made in the same factory and Apple will still be "investigating".


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## pt4u67 (Apr 27, 2006)

burnedandfrozen said:


> I'm not surprised that Apple released a statement after this article appeared.
> I'm also not suprised in their response. All companies express faux shock at news of what it's like in the sweatshops where their products are made. What a bunch of phony liars. I'll bet by this time next year ipods will still be made in the same factory and Apple will still be "investigating".


I agree. Corporations do this all the time. Remember the whole Kathy Lee Gifford thing and the protests over Nike in the 90's.

Personally I don't think they should do or say a thing. Its usually a vocal minority and sales never seem to be affected. The news cycle will move on and a new _cause celeb_ will emerge and take attention away. I don't blame the corporations. They should be amoral and their primary focus needs to be on profit. It seems that consumers also are all too happy to purchase cheap products without really wondering where they were made or who made them.


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## rnoldh (Apr 22, 2006)

*Which loan portfolio is that?*



Karl89 said:


> Gents,
> 
> China bet on the wrong horse. And just wait until the masses demand political reform and China's massive non-perfoming loan portfolio implodes the banking system.
> 
> ...


You make a lot of valid points. But I wonder what you know that I don't about the non-performing loan portfolio.

That scenario sounds suspiciously like Japan of 20 years ago. I think China is a little different in that they do not have the ridiculously overvalued Real Estate that Japan did. In addition most of their investments and debt are a lot more structurally sound than the Japanese example.

What makes you think their banking system may implode?


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## tasteful one (Oct 6, 2006)

Laxplayer said:


> Actually no, I don't feel better about paying Chinese workers, because the UAW workers (since you pointed them out), and those like them use that hard earned money to invest with me, and that pays _my _salary.
> 
> And, what is your issue with education? Those UAW workers _are_ educated...for their job. It's no different than plumbers, electricians, or any other skilled labor. Do you not buy computers because Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard?


Ah..so you're saying your support of others is based on something self serving. How quaint.

A teenager can be taught the skills to build a car (or fix a pipe, for that matter). There's no innate skill required, other than a functional neurological system. Are those skills worth $125k/yr.? And lifetime health benefits? Bill gates had a brillant idea, regardless of his completion (or lack therof) of formal education. He deserves it.

It's important to differentiate feelings about a government (and their decisions/policies) from those of the ordinary folk. I don't support the Communist regime in China....however, I do realize that my decision to buy 'elsewhere' prevents people in dire need from obtaining minimium living standards. And using my neurological system, I also realize that the best way to change abhorrent governmental policies is thru engagement, not isolation. The only people you hurt by prejudicial purchasing are the people who need it the most...and eventually who will be in a position to exert change on those very governments you despise.

Again, knowledgeable people make their decisions based on the quality of the item..not some misplaced sense of outrage.


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## Laxplayer (Apr 26, 2006)

tasteful one said:


> Ah..so you're saying your support of others is based on something self serving. How quaint.
> 
> A teenager can be taught the skills to build a car (or fix a pipe, for that matter). There's no innate skill required, other than a functional neurological system. Are those skills worth $125k/yr.? And lifetime health benefits? Bill gates had a brillant idea, regardless of his completion (or lack therof) of formal education. He deserves it.
> 
> ...


Ah...beginning your response with an ad hominem. 
Obviously they are worth $125k/yr since someone is willing to pay them that salary. Sounds like you have a bit of jealousy. 
And yes, I do support workers in the US, since they spend their money here in the US. If you want to call that self serving, fine.


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## Kav (Jun 19, 2005)

China will ultimately fail because of ENVIRONMENTAL causes. Much of prehistoric chinese flora and fauna is little known. The early impact of that people with an always rapid population climb the root cause. China is rushing to emulate first world economies and consumerism. Simple number crunching shows it will take an entire NEW and VIRGIN earth of resources. They can build the disastrous 3 Gorges Dam, beat us with overseas oil deals and make junk to fill Walmarts like so many cancer cells. Ultimately they 'Don't have a chinamen's chance.' May they live in interesting times.


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## Karl89 (Feb 20, 2005)

*China's NPL Problem*

rnoldh,

Here are some articles that discuss the problem. And please note that while Japan never had the financial meltdown some feared, it suffer from 15 years of little or no real growth (1990-2005). I would suggest you take a look at "Saving the Sun: A Wall Street Gamble to Rescue Japan from Its Trillion-Dollar Meltdown" by Gillian Tett to see how a closely run thing Japan's near miss with financial disaster was.

As to China not having the real estate problem that Japan did - well yes and no. While not suffer the severe overvaluation that domestic and international Japanese real estate holdings did, China is well on its way to overcapacity in office and hotel space and yet the building continues at a frantic pace. Also given the very shaky legal framework that exists for commercial transactions in China and the fact that zoning and building codes are usually ignored on second tier projects don't be surprised that when the real estate slow down occurs in China it will be dramatic.

The only upside, assuming we don't have a shooting war with China in the next ten years, which I think there is a 50/50 chance of, is that someone, probably an American since we pioneered the concept, will make a killing buying distressed assets and NPL portfolios ala the RTC in the late 80s-early 90s.

https://www.carnegieendowment.org/publications/index.cfm?fa=view&id=18308&prog=zch

https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2006-02/27/content_524422.htm

Karl


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## Wayfarer (Mar 19, 2006)

I will happily buy Chinese made goods if I find their value proposition in line with my desires. What I will not do is buy pirated items from China, be they knock offs, cracked software, or generic drugs in violation of patent law.

The problem lies in that so much of the world's population has been brainwashed into believing more is better, they are happy to spend $100 on 10 crappy shirts vs. $100.00 on one good shirt. I think that world wide, what has happened is that this philosophy has made it difficult for the true craftsman to eke out a living. It is hard to support small companies with high overhead relative to their revenues however worthy their products might be. The value proposition for so many has just shifted to "cheap and more" as opposed to "less and good".

We ourselves are guilty of that all the time. I have happily posted about CostCo's "fancy pants", putting them up against MTM odd trousers that cost four times as much. I have done my own little part to "walmart" the textile industry.

We live in a throw-away culture. I think we lose something for that, but it is hard to totally resist its pull. This is where China's manufacturing excels.

Just my $.02.


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