# Obama=Worst Dressed President of All Time



## Texan (Dec 31, 2008)

Is it even close?


----------



## anglophile23 (Jan 25, 2007)

I acually think he does suits well. Casual and formal not so much.


----------



## Pr B (Jan 8, 2009)

*James Buchanan*

Not James Buchanan?

For modern presidents, every one after JFK and before Geo. H.W. Bush was no fop. They were more in line with the Arnold Palmer Collection at Sears.


----------



## The Louche (Jan 30, 2008)

anglophile23 said:


> I acually think he does suits well. Casual and formal not so much.


Very much agree. But this doesn't make him one of the better dressed Presidents in history. There have been some rather dapper PsOTUS in recent years - Both GW Bush (in a trad way)and Reagan did well most of the time and Clinton wears nice suits these days. FDR was pretty dapper in his day too from what I've seen.

But back to the original point - no, Obama is not the worst dressed ever. I think that distinction belongs to Carter.


----------



## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Let's remember to keep this about the clothes, not politics.


----------



## Grayson (Feb 29, 2008)

I do feel that The President does seem WAY to consistent in his regular suit selections... it seems like every time I see him it's a black suit/white shirt/blue tie combo.

I can see it having a place on the campaign trail, but once in the White House I hoped we'd see a bit more variety.

As a younger and very fit individual, I thought we would see more tailored suits by now... perhaps in a lighter grey or glen-plaid show up every once in a while... and (hoping against hope) a three-piece suit.

His casual wear isn't as bad (it does reflect a bit more youthful outlook) but fit still suffers. Everything he wears looks a size or two too large for his frame.










His formal wear selections are the biggest disappointment, especially the white-tie vest combo with a tuxedo he wore at his inaugural ball.










Not the worst dressed, but agreed not the best. I personally feel what we're seeing is the work of a misguided/inept personal stylist. 
Perhaps (insert HOPE image here) we'll see some changes as he becomes more comfortable. :aportnoy:


----------



## KennethB (Jul 29, 2009)

Reagan dressed like a prole most of the time. Carter always looks atrocious. 

Obama looks pretty good in his suits. His 'dad jeans' and crappy running shoes, not so much.


----------



## 127.72 MHz (Feb 16, 2007)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> Let's remember to keep this about the clothes, not politics.


You should have closed the thread,...

Kind of half kidding but sort of not really.


----------



## Sean1982 (Sep 7, 2009)

He's a great man for sure, but not the best dresser on the world stage. His suits are ok, it's casual that makes me wince, I think he might be dressing conservative casual due to his office, when his previous dress might have been a bit better (better fitting?). I may be wrong, as I have not studied his pre Senator casual outfits, if such photographic records do exisit in the public domain.

His black tie is also awful, and he should have the staff to get that right. Makes me think he has chosen to do as he has done, knowing the facts.

Either way I think his dress does not demean the office of President, and he carries out the job with dignity as far as dress and deportment go. His politics are far more important than the black tie mistakes. I'll leave it at that, but suffice to says he's on the right track.


----------



## Mike Petrik (Jul 5, 2005)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> Let's remember to keep this about the clothes, not politics.


Just not possible for some people, I'm afraid.


----------



## Kingstonian (Dec 23, 2007)

KennethB said:


> Reagan dressed like a prole most of the time. .


Did he ? The industrial strength Grecian 2000 hair dye suggested he cared about his appearance. Hollywood suit - but conservative. Cowboy-style was as prole as he got.


----------



## KennethB (Jul 29, 2009)

Kingstonian said:


> Did he ? The industrial strength Grecian 2000 hair dye suggested he cared about his appearance. Hollywood suit - but conservative. Cowboy-style was as prole as he got.


Paul Fussell is incredibly harsh on Reagan in "Class:..."

https://books.google.com/books?id=a...sell class&pg=PA61#v=onepage&q=reagan&f=false


> One hesitates even to speculate about the polyester levels of his outfits...
> 
> Indeed, Reagan violates virtually every cannon of upper-class or even upper-middle-class presentation.


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Kingstonian said:


> Did he ? The industrial strength Grecian 2000 hair dye suggested he cared about his appearance.


The wife noticed Obama's supply seems to have run it's course already!!


----------



## alphadelta (Oct 2, 2007)

For Presidents in my lifetime, I'd agree with Carter. His term was the late 1970's early 1980's -- the worse fashion decade ever. No one dressed well as I remember. Kennedy was the best dressed President in my time.

AD


----------



## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

I found Fussel was quite ridiculous that he used Reagan as a primary image of a "prole". Even that silly illustration in his book of what a prole looks like vs. a high class guy... and it is caricatures of Reagan and Buckley. I get where he's coming from, but Reagan wasn't prole at all--he was dead center middle class with most things aside from speech.

Fussel liked bashing Reagan, never showing how Reagan broke the molds (whch he definitely did to connect to the average American and people at all ends). If Reagan was prole he would have had Westerm styled suits and bolo ties and boots with his suits. As a mid-classer he fits better into Flussel's own ladder of classes.

Obama looks styled when dressing in regular business suits, but he looks like he dressed himself when he does formal. Utterly embarrassing. A man that can negate billions in wealth and give up our super-power structure can't pay someone to dress him for the big events. He could even just look at the black tie guide online!


----------



## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

WilliamMMLeftfoot said:


> You can't really blame Obama for being a poor dresser. He didn't, well, have certain influences in his life.


LIKE WHAT INFLUENCES

Forsbergacct2000


----------



## amplifiedheat (Jun 9, 2008)

Fussell makes for great comedy, but as actual analysis, not so much. He's also dead wrong at times--every reporter remembers Reagan's famous glen plaid suit.


----------



## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

This may be the worst thing President Bush ever did:










Note the Presidential seal black shortie socks with the Crocs. This is an argument for making sartorial crimes impeachable. Physically revolting.


----------



## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

RJman said:


> This may be the worst thing President Bush ever did:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've always been a Bush supporter, but wow. That outfit is a high crime.


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Pentheos said:


> I've always been a Bush supporter, but wow. That outfit is a high crime.


Somebody call the Hague!!


----------



## deanayer (Mar 30, 2008)

FDR - dressed with some swagger
Truman - a failure
Ike - very classy and the last of the old school dressers, took his tophat when he left, the hatrack has been empty ever since.
JFK - great
LBJ - not good at all
Nixon - meh kind of blah and wrinkly
Ford - not memorable but not a disaster
carter - sub-par and cheap looking
Reagan - very well
GHW Bush - sharp dresser, heavy on the wasp influence.
Clinton - better than most - presidential unless jogging then ooof.
W Bush - presidential but boring, botched white tie pretty hard
Obama - modern cuts on a thin frame look very JFK - high marks for that but also cant do semi-formal right.


----------



## smujd (Mar 18, 2008)

RJman said:


> This may be the worst thing President Bush ever did:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


WOW!  I wonder if that was pre- or post-cycling. The socks look like cycling socks.

Obama looks pretty good in suits, although some variety would do him well. As someone else mentioned, he basically wears one suit with a white shirt and one tie.

Obama's casual clothing is hideous. He did much better (although still not great) during the campaign. Since hitting the White House, his casual clothing has been dreadful.

Obama's choices for formal clothing reflect his lower class origins.


----------



## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

smujd said:


> Obama's choices for formal clothing reflect his lower class origins.


After 20 posts, I actually thought we might make it through a thread about a politician and not get it sent to the Interchange.

Silly me.


----------



## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

That's okay, Mrkleen. As far as I can see it is not your job to worry about that. This is possibly a condescending post, but it's still about the clothes.


----------



## smujd (Mar 18, 2008)

mrkleen said:


> After 20 posts, I actually thought we might make it through a thread about a politician and not get it sent to the Interchange.
> 
> Silly me.


It's not a comment on his politics or anything else inflamatory. I have a number of good friends from lower class backgrounds. Doesn't make them bad people--does, as a rule, make for poor formal dress, however.


----------



## Packard (Apr 24, 2009)

I think that clothes hang pretty well on Obama. And I think that is at least half the battle.

I think he looks pretty good in a suit. He seems to unbutton the jacket a a bit too often though.


----------



## The Continental Fop (Jan 12, 2007)

After having lived in TX for close to 20 years, I came to learn that there is rationality, and then there is a Texan's way of seeing the world.

I could ask the OP if he's really serious, just like I could ask him if he really thinks GWB, with his too-large suits with the pooling pants cuffs and cowboy boots (worn even with tuxedos for @%#$ sake), was even a baseline non-retarded dresser, much less a good dresser, much less a better dresser than Obama. I could ask the guy all sorts of questions. But I won't, because I've learned that Texans are a peculiar lot, and mentally seceded from the rest of us a long time ago.



Texan said:


> Is it even close?


----------



## DCLawyer68 (Jun 1, 2009)

KennethB said:


> Paul Fussell is incredibly harsh on Reagan in "Class:..."
> 
> https://books.google.com/books?id=a...sell class&pg=PA61#v=onepage&q=reagan&f=false


Fussell is a bit of a crank in my view and his opinions don't carry much weight with me. It's pretty clear from those excepts he was reaching hard to criticize Reagan, whose tastes in suits were generally pretty decent if I recall. If Fussell's ex-wife is to believed, he wasn't a very classy husband.

Carter was bad - but it may have been the times rather than him personally.

As for Obama, I don't really view him as a sharp or poor dresser - just sort of a regular guy who needs to wear a certain type of look every day (blue suit, white shirt, inoffensive tie). In short, his wardrobe makes him appear as if he's been listening to the Ask Andy interview suit advice threads. :icon_smile_big:


----------



## mrkleen (Sep 21, 2007)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> That's okay, Mrkleen. As far as I can see it is not your job to worry about that. This is possibly a condescending post, but it's still about the clothes.


Right, calling the POTUS "lower class" is about the clothes. ic12337:


----------



## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

mrkleen said:


> Right, calling the POTUS "lower class" is about the clothes. ic12337:


I wonder if the OP thinks a "Black Tie and Boots" inaugural ball is well dressed.


----------



## Benzito (Aug 23, 2009)

Since I am of the navy suit / white shirt, blue tie persuasion, I find him to be quite well-dressed. 

Let's not forget he's only been in office six or seven months. Give him time and the candid shots of him on the golf course or walking the kids on vacation will come out and he'll look just as plain as the rest of us do on a Sunday afternoon (well, those of us who don't dress up on Sundays).


----------



## lt114 (Jul 30, 2009)

He never, ever shows any cuff. He looses major points with me for that.


----------



## WilliamMMLeftfoot (Jun 14, 2009)

The answer is yes, and the reason is that he doesn't want to alienate his supports by dressing too well.


----------



## Luxshoes (Dec 25, 2007)

*Get a life!*

I spend a significant amount of time in social media including this forum. Sometimes I have to wonder if all some you have to do is sit and around criticize others, and sometimes not in a constructive manner. I've never seen so many people spend time on such trivial things as Obama's suits. Give the guy a break. His suits are not his priority. Your well being is. Get a life!


----------



## Pr B (Jan 8, 2009)

*Fop*

Lift up rubber-soled shoes on this forum, if you want to see non-constructive criticism.


----------



## The Continental Fop (Jan 12, 2007)

I'm actually sorry I contributed to this thread. By far the most asinine and shameful post I've seen to date. The underlying racism begs for this thread to be closed, deleted, and then shredded.


----------



## Bermuda (Aug 16, 2009)

Obama is quite skinny, that's why everything looks so big on him I believe....his suits are always the same exact thing as every politician though! Black suit, white shirt, and blue or red tie....they are all so boring!!


----------



## Grayson (Feb 29, 2008)

Luxshoes said:


> I spend a significant amount of time in social media including this forum. Sometimes I have to wonder if all some you have to do is sit and around criticize others, and sometimes not in a constructive manner. I've never seen so many people spend time on such trivial things as Obama's suits. Give the guy a break. His suits are not his priority. Your well being is. Get a life!


Um... maybe we do it because dressing well and talking about the subject are kind of the point of being around here? ic12337:


----------



## ScottH (Feb 25, 2008)

*Are we reading the same thread?*



The Continental Fop said:


> I'm actually sorry I contributed to this thread. By far the most asinine and shameful post I've seen to date. The underlying racism begs for this thread to be closed, deleted, and then shredded.


Maybe I've missed it but I don't believe I've read a single thing in this thread so far that could be construed as racist. In fact you seem to be following a certain party line as of late that anything that might be taken as anti-Obama is to be labeled racist.

Now for the clothing comments, I think President Obama's suits are OK. The tailoring could be better but at least none of his suits that I have seen are ugly. The inauguration suit/tux/thing was pretty terrible and he or someone dressing him should have known better. His casual wear is awful and he is too young a guy to be wearing such bad choices.


----------



## lt114 (Jul 30, 2009)

I don't think I've seen Obama wear anything that would qualify him as worst dressed President of all time. I do think he could do a few things differently and perhaps better. First, it wouldn't kill him to throw in a pocket square at least once in a while. Second, he could use some better tailoring for his suits as several people already mentioned; sometimes he looks like he raided his father's closet with some of the suits he wears. Third, he could mix it up once in a while with his suit, tie, and shirt combination. Overall I don't think he dresses poorly, but he could do a few things better in my opinion.


----------



## Peak and Pine (Sep 12, 2007)

smujd said:


> Obama's choices for formal clothing reflect his lower class origins.





smujd said:


> It's not a comment on his politics or anything else inflamatory. I have a number of good friends from lower class backgrounds.


I'm biting my tongue here, but only because F'berg's got this thing about commenting on his moderation.
​


----------



## The Continental Fop (Jan 12, 2007)

Nope, you're mistaken. This forum is a microcosm, and like the town halls and teabaggers, some here employ code words for Obama that are just this side of vague to enable the issuer to wink, "What, me racist? All I said was Obama is uppity, and that he's low class, the Harvard-educated former law professor at Northwestern".

I stand by my comments. I believe the original intent of this thread was to malign Obama on coded racial grounds. Politics aside, Obama looks better than all of the members of this forum put together, whether his suits aren't tailored just so or his lapels aren't exactly the AAAC-approved width for whatever occasion he happens to be dressing for. This thread belongs on TMZ.com with the other comments by lumpen proles about how gorgeous celebs are actually totally ugly and stupid.

Some of you guys want to criticize Obama for his politics, be my guest and go to the innumerable GOP sites where you'll be welcomed with open arms. This is a forum about clothing. I've read many reasonable comments taking Obama to task for supposedly committing certain sartorial sins (as if 90% of the "lookit me" pics posted here aren't borderline comedic) but this was not one of them. Calling Obama the "worst dressed president of all time" because you can't wrap your head around the fact that a black man is President of the United States is cowardly and ignoble.

Leave this BS out of AAAC.

MAYBE YOU ARE THE ONE THAT NEEDS TO WATCH THE POLITICS.\

Forsbergacct2000

However, I also think this thread was poorly presented and wonder what the OPs real motivation was, too.



ScottH said:


> Maybe I've missed it but I don't believe I've read a single thing in this thread so far that could be construed as racist. In fact you seem to be following a certain party line as of late that anything that might be taken as anti-Obama is to be labeled racist.
> 
> Now for the clothing comments, I think President Obama's suits are OK. The tailoring could be better but at least none of his suits that I have seen are ugly. The inauguration suit/tux/thing was pretty terrible and he or someone dressing him should have known better. His casual wear is awful and he is too young a guy to be wearing such bad choices.


----------



## sclemmons (Mar 4, 2006)

The best thing about Obama is the way he looks in a suit; that and his cute little girls.


----------



## WilliamMMLeftfoot (Jun 14, 2009)

The fit of Mr. Obama's clothing is actually pretty good. I do wish he wouldn't wear black so much though. A grey flannel pinstripe or perhaps some charcoal suits paired with repp ties. A plain white linen pocket square would make my day though.


----------



## ExpertiseInNone (Nov 5, 2008)

You know all this talk about his poor choice of tuxedos made me do some research. He did wear a custom Hart Schaffner Marx tuxedo that night; it didn't look stunning, but looked presentable. He also did wear a Brooks Brothers overcoat and scarf on his inauguaration. I don't think he looks all that bad in his casual clothes. What did you want him to wear in his casual clothes? Sport coats, ties, and dress trousers? He was supposed to bring a breath of new fresh life into the presidency, not an old decaying one.


----------



## welldressedfellow (May 28, 2008)

Public arguing with a moderator is not allowed. If you had read the Rules, you would have known that.



Peak and Pine said:


> I'm biting my tongue here, but only because F'berg's got this thing about commenting on his moderation.
> ​


----------



## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

https://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/03/09/us/09obama.1-450.jpg

There he is in white-tie without a vest. I think that is his biggest mistake. His suits are fine. Sure I'd like to see more cuff, a pocket square or something other than solid shirts and ties, but that's just not going to happen.

As for the racist comment. One can be say someone comes from a lower class and not be a racist. And one can also be born into a lower class and rise to be president... that's the beauty of America. I see this getting doomed to the Interchange.


----------



## welldressedfellow (May 28, 2008)

Right you are, BC. This thread is on the brink of the Interchange.



brokencycle said:


> https://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/03/09/us/09obama.1-450.jpg
> 
> There he is in white-tie without a vest. I think that is his biggest mistake. His suits are fine. Sure I'd like to see more cuff, a pocket square or something other than solid shirts and ties, but that's just not going to happen.
> 
> As for the racist comment. One can be say someone comes from a lower class and not be a racist. And one can also be born into a lower class and rise to be president... that's the beauty of America. I see this getting doomed to the Interchange.


----------



## dr.strangelove (Sep 22, 2009)

The Continental Fop said:


> After having lived in TX for close to 20 years, I came to learn that there is rationality, and then there is a Texan's way of seeing the world.


This passes for high minded criticism, but saying the president doesn't dress well is a racist conspiracy


----------



## amplifiedheat (Jun 9, 2008)

deanayer said:


> FDR - dressed with some swagger
> Truman - a failure
> Ike - very classy and the last of the old school dressers, took his tophat when he left, the hatrack has been empty ever since.
> JFK - great
> ...


Would agree on all except Truman. I mean, really. The man was a former haberdasher, for crying out loud. Flusser has a rather sharp photo of him in a white double-breasted suit with patch pockets. Nixon had decent clothes, but always looked uncomfortable in them.


----------



## amplifiedheat (Jun 9, 2008)

The Continental Fop said:


> Politics aside, Obama looks better than all of the members of this forum put together, whether his suits aren't tailored just so or his lapels aren't exactly the AAAC-approved width for whatever occasion he happens to be dressing for.


Don't overplay your hand. This looks bad:
https://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/03/09/us/09obama.1-450.jpg


----------



## turban1 (May 29, 2008)

*sense! taste!*



deanayer said:


> FDR - dressed with some swagger
> Truman - a failure
> Ike - very classy and the last of the old school dressers, took his tophat when he left, the hatrack has been empty ever since.
> JFK - great
> ...


quite right. but the worst dressed might have been lincoln. while everyone wore the same frock coats and stovepipe hats, his always looked slept-in and a tad thread-bare.


----------



## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

Peak and Pine said:


> I'm biting my tongue here, but only because F'berg's got this thing about commenting on his moderation.
> ​


You just did.

It's a forum rule, not mine. If you want to post here, observe it.


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

The Continental Fop said:


> Calling Obama the "worst dressed president of all time" because you can't wrap your head around the fact that a black man is President of the United States is cowardly and ignoble.
> 
> Leave this BS out of AAAC.


1. Actually it was just a bit over the top, that's all.

2. Why did YOU bring it here??


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

deanayer said:


> Truman - a failure


I kinda dug his look.


----------



## The Continental Fop (Jan 12, 2007)

If you really think this photo looks "bad", you have my sympathy. Would that any of us could look this bad on our best day.



amplifiedheat said:


> Don't overplay your hand. This looks bad:
> https://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/03/09/us/09obama.1-450.jpg


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

The Continental Fop said:


> If you really think this photo looks "bad", you have my sympathy. Would that any of us could look this bad on our best day.


On that you have a point, and while Michelle also generally looks great, there is just no defending this...


----------



## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

The Continental Fop said:


> If you really think this photo looks "bad", you have my sympathy. Would that any of us could look this bad on our best day.


You have to be kidding. If you don't see a few obvious flaws in the tailoring, you will not pass GO or collect $200.


----------



## The Continental Fop (Jan 12, 2007)

This is getting silly. Nobody on this board can boast of a photo of themselves, or any public figure in the last 200 years, who didn't have a few "obvious flaws" in the tailoring. Or perhaps the tailoring is spot-on, but the flesh beneath it has a few new flaws since the last wearing.

Why am I still here? Look, if you really believe that it's not silly to look at that photo and scoff at its departure from your own perceived notions of what is or is not "perfect tailoring", then you're right, we are not chasing the same rabbit. Which comes as quite a relief to us both, I imagine.

When I first found this forum it seemed to be about regular guys learning how to dress better. Not sure what it's become, but it sure has changed in the last year or so.



Preu Pummel said:


> You have to be kidding. If you don't see a few obvious flaws in the tailoring, you will not pass GO or collect $200.


----------



## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

The Continental Fop said:


> This is getting silly. Nobody on this board can boast of a photo of themselves, or any public figure in the last 200 years, who didn't have a few "obvious flaws" in the tailoring. Or perhaps the tailoring is spot-on, but the flesh beneath it has a few new flaws since the last wearing.
> 
> Why am I still here? Look, if you really believe that it's not silly to look at that photo and scoff at its departure from your own perceived notions of what is or is not "perfect tailoring", then you're right, we are not chasing the same rabbit. Which comes as quite a relief to us both, I imagine.
> 
> When I first found this forum it seemed to be about regular guys learning how to dress better. Not sure what it's become, but it sure has changed in the last year or so.


So you're defending formal attire without a vest, a jacket that doesn't sit on the collar of one's shirt, jacket sleeves longer than the shirt sleeves (especially in formal and semi-formal wear), and french cuff shirts (which also looks to have a turndown collar) with a tailcoat? That isn't just a few minor tailoring issues. His attire to the formal event is fundamentally incorrect and poorly executed at best.

You're making a straw man by saying no one here can point to all images of themselves and not find a few "obvious flaws." The image was meant to exemplify his poor track record at formal and semiformal wear. I know I haven't seen him do it once even close to correctly.


----------



## AldenPyle (Oct 8, 2006)

I dont care if the President (or anyone else, really) wears a notch lapel tuxedo or bluchers with a suit or some such nonsense. But I admit I was irked when I saw this portrait in the National Portrait Gallery where it will hang for the next few centuries.


----------



## DCLawyer68 (Jun 1, 2009)

As someone who disagreed with the OP's premise, I'll just state that I think its the critics of this thread who have made it political.

Would there have been the same vituperative responses had the OP criticized George Bush? I highly doubt it.

As to this forum, there's plenty of, shall we say, non-substantive commentary (see, e.g. A Gentleman's Car thread). 

But AAAC is like any other club...if you don't like one particular conversation, you can move on to another. No need to trash the whole and its membership at large.


----------



## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I can guaranteed you there would have been a nasty response had Bush been criticized. Just not by the same people.

I'll confess I wish the younger Bush had worn something more professional for his picture.


----------



## smujd (Mar 18, 2008)

AldenPyle said:


> I dont care if the President (or anyone else, really) wears a notch lapel tuxedo or bluchers with a suit or some such nonsense. But I admit I was irked when I saw this portrait in the National Portrait Gallery where it will hang for the next few centuries.


So bad, on so many levels.


----------



## Packard (Apr 24, 2009)

smujd said:


> So bad, on so many levels.


The painting is not bad; it does not feel Presidential however.


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> I can guaranteed you there would have been a nasty response had Bush been criticized. Just not by the same people.
> 
> I'll confess I wish the younger Bush had worn something more professional for his picture.


Posts 17, 18, 19, 21 and 58.

I'm the same person.

What do you know!!

I agree with the portrait, Bush's "aw shucks" look may be OK for his living room but not our National Portrait Gallery!!


----------



## Longstreet (Aug 20, 2009)

Packard said:


> The painting is not bad; it does not feel Presidential however.


I am perplexed by the painting because Bush was a very strong proponent of always, always having a jacket on in the oval office. There was a big deal when a photo was leaked of someone not having a jacket on in the oval office, as that as a cardnal sin at that point. It's just weird to see him choose to not wear a jacket for the painting that people will see for years to come.

I don't personally like the dressed down style currently being promoted in the Oval Office, but to each his own.


----------



## Grayson (Feb 29, 2008)

I noted the thread's early criticism of Truman's dressing as a 'failure'.

Echoing another post, I must ALSO offer a rebuttal. Harry Truman was a haberdasher prior to his political career, and I've always noted how exceptionally he was always turned out.

A typical example of Harry Truman from the photo archives...










My own rankings of 20th century's best-dressed presidents have him next to Kennedy at the top.

And BTW, I was always impressed with Ronald Reagan's ability to understand the gravitas requirement of his clothing and still show some sartorial bravery. Though only a kid at the time, I remember the buzz over his wearing a very retro-sharp brown suit...










High marks, Ronny! :aportnoy:


----------



## Longstreet (Aug 20, 2009)

The Continental Fop said:


> Nope, you're mistaken. This forum is a microcosm, and like the town halls and teabaggers, some here employ code words for Obama that are just this side of vague to enable the issuer to wink, "What, me racist? All I said was Obama is uppity, and that he's low class, the Harvard-educated former law professor at Northwestern".


You're right, if Obama was 100% white instead of just 50% white, this thread would be title Obama=Best Dressed President of All Time.

Your opinion that you don't think it's ok to talk about the style of one of, if not the, most visable men in the world is simply wrong. Futhermore, the fact that you atribute disagreeing opinions about his style to racism is disgusting and repulsive.


----------



## OH-CPA (Jun 12, 2008)

This picture gives the definitive awnser. Before seeing this I was going to say Carter but you can't argue with this evidence.


----------



## DCLawyer68 (Jun 1, 2009)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> I can guaranteed you there would have been a nasty response had Bush been criticized. Just not by the same people.
> 
> I'll confess I wish the younger Bush had worn something more professional for his picture.


Exactly - we seem to think someone's well dressed more by their political positions than anything else.

Also agreed re the portrait. I think its well done from an artistic POV, but I prefer them to feature the President as, well, Presidential.

Reagan's was impeccable (take that Paul F) as was Bush's. I really like Clinton's actually - a little bit different style.

As far as I can tell, Bush II (43) is the first to have his official portrait not in a suit and tie?


----------



## Packard (Apr 24, 2009)

OH-CPA said:


> This picture gives the definitive awnser. Before seeing this I was going to say Carter but you can't argue with this evidence.


What offends you? The hat, the shirt, the shorts, the socks or the shoes? Or the fact that he did not tuck in his shirt?


----------



## DCLawyer68 (Jun 1, 2009)

Longstreet said:


> I don't personally like the dressed down style currently being promoted in the Oval Office, but to each his own.


Clearly, that picture does not depict him in the Oval (or likely even the WH given the wood paneling - its probably Crawford) fwiw...but count me in as wishing the official portrait was more traditional.


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Longstreet said:


> You're right, if Obama was 100% white instead of just 50% white, this thread would be title Obama=Best Dressed President of All Time.
> 
> Your opinion that you don't think it's ok to talk about the style of one of, if not the, most visable men in the world is simply wrong. Futhermore, the fact that you atribute disagreeing opinions about his style to racism is disgusting and repulsive.


Okay, that's enough. Let's get the thread back on track.


----------



## The Continental Fop (Jan 12, 2007)

No, go read it again. I didn't attribute disagreeing opinions about Obama's style to racism. Just the OP's.

As long as we're making general observations AND NOT BEING RACIST, I think it's interesting that all the anti-Obama posts seem to be coming from our brothers in the Southern states. One could argue that Texas is considered the Southwest and not the South per se, but one could also sit naked in a bathtub full of mashed-up bananas and it wouldn't make any difference either.

Seriously guys, have we all had enough? Let's see, what have we learned today:

Some of us really don't care for President Obama;

Some of us really don't care for hinted racism;

Some of us bristle when some other of us call a shovel a shovel;

Some of us really don't care for each other, to put it mildly.

This morning I found two messages in my inbox here. One from a mod asking me to cool it, and one from a member thanking me for saying what he would like to say himself. I thought that was pretty excellent. Two msgs that frame the climate here perfectly.

Now, what say we check our teabags at the door and go back to bigging up ascots and opera pumps? A house divided etc.



Longstreet said:


> You're right, if Obama was 100% white instead of just 50% white, this thread would be title Obama=Best Dressed President of All Time.
> 
> Your opinion that you don't think it's ok to talk about the style of one of, if not the, most visable men in the world is simply wrong. Futhermore, the fact that you atribute disagreeing opinions about his style to racism is disgusting and repulsive.


----------



## Packard (Apr 24, 2009)

The Continental Fop said:


> ...Some of us bristle when some other of us *call a shovel a shovel*; ...


I knew a rabid racist who used *"call a shovel a shovel"* as a euphemism for a *"call a spade a spade"* and I would take care when using that phrase.


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

SIGH.


----------



## Bernard T. McManus (Sep 23, 2009)

I don't know if Barack Obama is the worst dressed president in history but that picture of Harry Truman at his desk with cuffs and the broad double breasted suit is very sartorially excellent. 

The official painting of GWB in a regular shirt is a nice looking painting but a clothing faux paus (sp) - as I see it.

Barack Obama is looking very cookie cutter in his suit choices, but I see him sitting on TV and I notice that his shoes look very nice.


----------



## joenobody0 (Jun 30, 2009)

The Continental Fop said:


> As long as we're making general observations AND NOT BEING RACIST, I think it's interesting that all the anti-Obama posts seem to be coming from our brothers in the Southern states.


Read my location. I would say something far worse about Obama than I've seen anyone say in this thread. However, this is not the place.


----------



## The Continental Fop (Jan 12, 2007)

Sigh. Irony doesn't always mean taking your Doan's pills.

I'm done, guys. This isn't the Enlightenment, clearly. Have a nice day.



Packard said:


> I knew a rabid racist who used *"call a shovel a shovel"* as a euphemism for a *"call a spade a spade"* and I would take care when using that phrase.


----------



## Taliesin (Sep 24, 2004)

What an odd thread. Although the purported topic is whether Barack Obama is the worst dressed president in history, my quick count shows that there have been over 50 posts (out of roughly 75 total -- around 70%) addressed to other topics, such as Reagan's clothing, George W. Bush's portrait, etc. 

Of the 22 or so posts that actually addressed Obama's clothing, 6 were unfavorable (terrible, worst ever, etc.), 14 were mixed reviews (e.g., he does suits well, but his tuxedo needs work), and 2 were wholly favorable. 

Thus, the consensus seems to be that he's not the worst ever, but could use a little work here and there. 

Seems fair enough. In fact, it's what could likely be said about nearly all of us. So I'm not sure why there seems to be so many hurt feelings.


----------



## Grayson (Feb 29, 2008)

I posted about Truman and Reagan because this is (supposed) to be a discussion about the potentially worst-dressed President of all time. How else might people do this than by comparing him to others... which leads to ineveitable critiques and examples of our better-attired Chief Executives?

In my experience, such is the life of a discussion board thread.

As for the rest of you... please step out of the mudhole y'all are wrestling in. You're going to ruin those Park Avenues!


----------



## bucksfan2009 (Mar 20, 2009)

There is a lot of talk about President Obama's poor casual wear but as a younger man I would argue that it's hard to look good while dressing casually. This is not an excuse for his DAD jeans and running shoes but it's not easy for a President to try to pull off the "man of the people" look. If you go back to the campaign when he did a lot of open collar shirts and quality trousers I think pulled that together pretty well. 

I would agree that he could show more cuff and it wouldn't hurt to sport a JFK style pocket square but his ties and shoes are always impeccable and and his suits do hang well.

Maybe I'm just too young but the pictures of Ford on the golf course in plaid pants and bad polos repulse me more than anything President Obama has worn to date.


----------



## paul2 (Oct 13, 2006)

People, let's be for real. While you're obviously not Obama fans, let's be honest. Obama dress fairly well. He's not a Prince Charles, but, for the most part, his attire is quite adequate for a President.

Stop hating, people! Get over it!:icon_smile:


----------



## amplifiedheat (Jun 9, 2008)

Taliesin said:


> Thus, the consensus seems to be that he's not the worst ever, but could use a little work here and there.
> 
> Seems fair enough. In fact, it's what could likely be said about nearly all of us. So I'm not sure why there seems to be so many hurt feelings.


Sounds about right. As for the white-tie debate, simply compare Obama's rental:
https://outfoxingkarlrove.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/fashion-scoop1.jpg
to JFK and Sidney Poitier's custom:

https://b.getbackimages.com/uri/w51...3051/sidney-poitier/image/4/0/4/6/4046756.jpg
and you don't have to be a dandy to tell that Obama's jacket is way too big. I'm sure most tall, thin men have this problem with rentals.

P.S. I was in line before the polls opened to vote for Obama.


----------



## Grayson (Feb 29, 2008)

^^^ *Obama fan!*

But that should really have no bearing on opinions within the scope of this particular discussion... in either direction. :icon_smile_wink:


----------



## Bernard T. McManus (Sep 23, 2009)

paul2 said:


> People, let's be for real. While you're obviously not Obama fans, let's be honest. Obama dress fairly well. He's not a Prince Charles, but, for the most part, his attire is quite adequate for a President.
> 
> Stop hating, people! Get over it!:icon_smile:


ic12337:

Paul, I agree with your assessment that Barack Obama dresses adequately for a president but I don't see any hate. :icon_smile_wink:


----------



## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

Luxshoes said:


> I spend a significant amount of time in social media including this forum. Sometimes I have to wonder if all some you have to do is sit and around criticize others, and sometimes not in a constructive manner. I've never seen so many people spend time on such trivial things as Obama's suits. Give the guy a break. His suits are not his priority. Your well being is. Get a life!


I believe this forum is still about wardrobe.


----------



## Preu Pummel (Feb 5, 2008)

The problem is that he is the highest role model for so many people and for certain angles of culture. He definitely doesn't dress like some middle class loaf and he dresses well enough for average-man, but for a president, he's very rough on the edges. He portrays the clean politician and the high school prom date very well.



Orsini said:


> I believe this forum is still about wardrobe.


Quite right.


----------



## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

turban1 said:


> quite right. but the worst dressed might have been lincoln. while everyone wore the same frock coats and stovepipe hats, his always looked slept-in and a tad thread-bare.


You are older than I had thought...


----------



## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

I predict that in seven years Orsini will be the best-dressed president in history. (Sometimes it can help to set high goals.)


----------



## rsmeyer (May 14, 2006)

amplifiedheat said:


> Sounds about right. As for the white-tie debate, simply compare Obama's rental:
> https://outfoxingkarlrove.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/fashion-scoop1.jpg
> to JFK and Sidney Poitier's custom:
> 
> ...


I agree with the above, and I was in the line ahead of you.


----------



## clothingconnoisseur (Oct 9, 2005)

Although there are many negative things I could say about President Obama I will stick with what is germane to this forum.

He is very fortunate to be tall and thin so he could wear just about anything and look good in it. Although I do not find him particuarly poorly dressed his clothing choices are rather pedestrian - dark suit, white shirt, conservative tie. I think many voters would be turned off if he dressed like Prince Charles which is probably more in line with what this forums members would prefer (including myself).


----------



## kelliw (Aug 13, 2008)

Was he not in the Hall of Fame Best Dressed List by Vanity Fair?


----------



## RJman (Nov 11, 2003)

kelliw said:


> Was he not in the Hall of Fame Best Dressed List by Vanity Fair?


The same way that the atrociously dressed Nicolas Sarkozy made all the best-dressed lists when he became President. It's a matter of being perceived as someone fresh and new, and in Sarko's case, being the world's most famous kept man.


----------



## Sean1982 (Sep 7, 2009)

RJman said:


> The same way that the atrociously dressed Nicolas Sarkozy made all the best-dressed lists when he became President. It's a matter of being perceived as someone fresh and new, and in Sarko's case, being the world's most famous kept man.


Yeah, Sarko is badly dressed, as is Medvedev. They wear shiny ill fitting suits. Gordon Brown at the UN had a dreadful tie knot, shameful. Did he look in the mirror?

Bush had that folksy painting done because that is the image that he wanted to portray. He had a reverence for the Oval Office perhaps, but he loved his cowboy boots and running outfits. Man of the people etc. He wants not to be seen as stuffy or a warmonger, and remind us that he was perhaps the worst US President ever (imho a good candidate).

Obama always holds himself very well, and his communication is superb. He wear ok suits as I've said before. The evening dress problems are perhaps because he wants to be seen as a young and different President, a break from the past, as he is. He dressed ultra safe in drab suits for the opposite reason, to be stateman like because he is young and a break from the past. He possibly can't wear the casual clothes he wants, so as to try and look presidential and politician like, when he was a professor he could probably be a bit more free with his casual dress. So the contradiction is, break the evening wear rules, but keep them for formal day wear (suits, not morning suits I mean!).

For the record, I think Obama is great, and as a UK/US Citizen I am proud to have President like Obama (including having a black President) whatever his dress (although I'd be happy if he wore correct black tie as a bonus!). There clearly are racist elements to some of the criticisms made of him (I don't mean on this forum specifically), but ideological opposition also causes bitterness generally and on both sides in politics (e.g I knee-jerk think George Bush is probably not a nice guy because I hate his politics, but he may well be good company for all I know).

Sean


----------



## thefancyman (Apr 24, 2009)

Orsini said:


> I believe this forum is still about wardrobe.


I agree, also I wouldn't say that Hart Schaffner Marx is a firm anywhere near low class. HSM is a fine maker and classic American brand who makes a darn good, classic garment for a reasonable price. That being said I wish Obama would take advantage of the exquisite services of another Chicago maker by the name of Oxxford. I think he would look quite Presidential in one of the finest examples of American bespoke hand-tailoring. Obama's lanky frame is too unique to be shoved into a RTW suit.


----------



## Peter Benders (Jun 16, 2009)

Not really, he normally wears gud... i agree with u on casual wear though


----------



## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

forsbergacct2000 said:


> I predict that in seven years Orsini will be the best-dressed president in history. (Sometimes it can help to set high goals.)


Thank you for that endorsement. You are, as always, too kind.

If elected, I will immediately raise the pension for former presidents to the stratosphere and then proclaim moderation throughout the land. I hope there is no background check...

I haven't paid much attention to national affairs the last few years, so I do not know what President Obama wears in a typical business day. However, I understand that both his evening semi-formal and white tie rigs were rather unfortunate. Possibly these variations were intended to project some message to the masses but I know not what it might be. This is indeed unfortunate because, with only minor adjustments, they both could be correct as well as stylish.

I really do not understand why a valet position at the White House has not become customary over the years! The presence of any professional valet could have prevented those errors from ever happening. It seems reasonable to me that a head of state would have a few processional wardrobe people around. I doubt that any of the major royals have less than one or two valets on staff.

Presidents always make some changes to their presentation and style during their first term as questions of fit and cut are ironed out. Many of these changes are subtle, but they add up to a significant adjustment of the image while not being noticed by the fans, uh, public Then the president has a wardrobe that fits great, looks good, and projects the desired image and political ques -- as well as having stimulated the economy!


----------



## Orsini (Apr 24, 2007)

thefancyman said:


> I agree, also I wouldn't say that Hart Schaffner Marx is a firm anywhere near low class. HSM is a fine maker and classic American brand who makes a darn good, classic garment for a reasonable price. That being said I wish Obama would take advantage of the exquisite services of another Chicago maker by the name of Oxxford. I think he would look quite Presidential in one of the finest examples of American bespoke hand-tailoring. Obama's lanky frame is too unique to be shoved into a RTW suit.


I do not dispute it.


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Sean1982 said:


> For the record, I think Obama is great, and as a UK/US Citizen I am proud to have President like Obama (including having a black President) whatever his dress (although I'd be happy if he wore correct black tie as a bonus!). There clearly are racist elements to some of the criticisms made of him (I don't mean on this forum specifically), but ideological opposition also causes bitterness generally and on both sides in politics (e.g I knee-jerk think George Bush is probably not a nice guy because I hate his politics, but he may well be good company for all I know).
> 
> Sean


This is not the forum to say it.
*
I'm sending this thread to the Interchange if there are any more political statements or racism accusations. Last warning.*


----------



## Texan (Dec 31, 2008)

Obviously all the guys saying Truman was among the worst dressed just outed themselves as know nothings.


----------



## WouldaShoulda (Aug 5, 2009)

Texan said:


> Obviously all the guys saying Truman was among the worst dressed just outed themselves as know nothings.


YUP!!

Don't do it, Harry, don't do it!!


----------



## Drew Bernard (Feb 19, 2009)

I don't see many problems with President Obama's work-day attire. Here's something that needs fixing, though...

Three Letters for the President - OTC


----------



## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

^^
Gentlemen, I for one am comforted by our Presidents sartorial imperfections. They seem to prove that he is indeed, one of the people. As I looked at the "too short" crew socks, pictured in the link to the previous post, I found myself struck by the reality that..."I've been there myself." I rather like having something in common with our President!


----------



## amplifiedheat (Jun 9, 2008)

eagle2250 said:


> ^^
> Gentlemen, I for one am comforted by our Presidents sartorial imperfections. They seem to prove that he is indeed, one of the people.


So you want a candidate you could see yourself having a beer with?:icon_headagainstwal


----------



## Sean1982 (Sep 7, 2009)

Jovan said:


> This is not the forum to say it.
> 
> *I'm sending this thread to the Interchange if there are any more political statements or racism accusations. Last warning.*


The attitude to Obama is partly political, clearly, including in the appraisal of his dress. In fact politics is absolutly linked to dress and life generally ('politics' in the widest sense).

Being terrified of politics is asinine, or perhaps more correctly ostrich-like.

A MODERATOR HAS DISAGREED WITH THAT. PLEASE KEEP POLITICS OUT OF OUR CLOTHING FORUM PER OUR RULES. I'M SORRY IF YOU CONSIDER THIS OSTRICH LIKE.

Forsbergacct2000


----------



## amplifiedheat (Jun 9, 2008)

Sean1982 said:


> The attitude to Obama is partly political, clearly, including in the appraisal of his dress. In fact politics is absolutly linked to dress and life generally ('politics' in the widest sense).
> 
> Being terrified of politics is asinine, or perhaps more correctly ostrich-like.


However, for the sake of civility, there is another forum. Fair enough?


----------



## uman (Jun 1, 2009)

*OUR MENSA*

I had been looking forward to an intelligent debate about "politicians' attire" for some time, including American Presidents as the most visible political leaders in the world, and this seemed like a good opportunity. Unfortunately I have now lost the thread of this exchange. If we are all gentlemen discussing about style and etiquette around this virtual _mensa_, then the old rule "never discuss politics or religion at the table" should apply, and be respected by all fellow invitees.

To the subject. The style pattern that has been recurring in the White House, is actually the same that can be found at all political levels in America and in England, almost as if there was a secret and immutable "manual". I'm talking about the so predictable formal uniform: two-button, no cuff, single vented, dark blue suit, fitted with the un-escapable white shirt and "power tie". Similar codes have been adopted by most world political leaders - just look at a picture of a G-8 or G-20 meeting - and I suppose it has to do with the desire to transmit focus, dedication, seriousness, integrity, without alienating the average man. The irony is the fact that there is nothing inherently wrong which such combination (except the tie), in fact it is probably the most appropriate solution on solemn occasions. The reason why it all looks so banal, in my opinion, is the fact that the suits and shirts are almost always off-the-rack, of standard cut, poor tailoring, low quality materials, and never properly accessorized. Like in a black-tie event, some men stand out by wearing a custom suit of high quality, with an adequate shirt, cufflinks, handkerchief (or boutonnière)&#8230; even minute details such as the knot of the tie make a difference in such circumstances. President Obama has the advantage of a tall and lean physique, and of a certain grace in movement, he just needs to get proper support in building his wardrobe. By the way, I agree entirelon Oxxford, but I don't think that the "made in USA" should be such an issue in a global world.
Politicians should get over the wrong assumption that they need to "get down to the people" also in their attire, I believe that they instead should dress-up to the institutional role, which in the case of heads of state is to represent the entire nation. A citizen should be proud to see his president leading others in matters of taste too. The same mistake is often made by men of the Church, who want to be seen as ordinary men by wearing ordinary clothes, forgetting that their often beautiful uniforms were part of the mystique and a suggestion of higher things.

Enough said, even though the informal part of politician's attire would be even more interesting, let's enjoy this debate.


----------



## thefancyman (Apr 24, 2009)

uman said:


> By the way, I agree entirelon Oxxford, but I don't think that the "made in USA" should be such an issue in a global world.


I most certainly agree. I remember reading on this forum that JFK who had a passion for wearing Charvet had the White House staff who laundered his clothing take out the tag so that if he needed to change his shirt during the day no one would see that he wore a French shirt.


----------



## THORVALD (Jan 30, 2007)

*Pres DRESSING*

At least for me BOTH Presdients Bush & Obama's dressing it sort of by the numbers, not very exciting, BUT Presidential! President Reagan was the last Chief Executive after JFK that looked sharp in a suit with some style vibes IMO!


----------



## Francisco D'Anconia (Apr 18, 2007)

Texan said:


> Is it even close?


I'd say he's in the middle. He's no FDR or Harry Truman. But he didn't address the nation on national television in a sweater either.


----------



## Sean1982 (Sep 7, 2009)

Sean1982 said:


> The attitude to Obama is partly political, clearly, including in the appraisal of his dress. In fact politics is absolutly linked to dress and life generally ('politics' in the widest sense).
> 
> Being terrified of politics is asinine, or perhaps more correctly ostrich-like.
> 
> ...


Actually the moderator said that their should be no more '*political statements'*.

I simply said that in my view the attitude towards politicians (and indeed aspects of dress generally) is political, and that avoiding this aspect is silly (but thus accepting that this subject is not for debate here). This does not go against anything that the omnipotent moderator has sent down on tablets from Mount Olympus. I did not mention my political views or accuse anyone of racism as per his 'instruction', unless you feel that saying politics exists and commenting as such is a politcal statment.

YOUR BEHAVIOUR IN SHOUTING AT ME IS RUDE AND IGNORANT, AND NOT CALLED FOR. I am a new member, and instead of being welcomed I have been treated in this delightful way! Very nice that you welcome people to 'your forum', thanks.


----------



## Nicesuit (Apr 5, 2007)

When he was playing golf on his vacation, he looked kinda like the guy that picks up our trash. I don't know who dressed him when he walked out the door but he looked more ACORN than POTUS.


----------



## eagle2250 (Mar 24, 2006)

Nicesuit said:


> When he was playing golf on his vacation, he looked kinda like the guy that picks up our trash. I don't know who dressed him when he walked out the door but he looked more ACORN than POTUS.


Nicesuit (and a few others): Congrats. Your gamesmanship is lacking and certainly inadequate to disguise the thinly veiled attempts to circumvent and /or question earlier moderation attempts. Perhaps you will be able to constrain your offerings to the guidelines that apply to postings on the Interchange!

Rather sad, actually.


----------



## rsmeyer (May 14, 2006)

Nicesuit said:


> When he was playing golf on his vacation, he looked kinda like the guy that picks up our trash. I don't know who dressed him when he walked out the door but he looked more ACORN than POTUS.


Or maybe more NASCAR?


----------



## brokencycle (Jan 11, 2008)

eagle2250 said:


> Nicesuit (and a few others): Congrats. Your gamesmanship is lacking and certainly inadequate to disguise the thinly veiled attempts to circumvent and /or question earlier moderation attempts. Perhaps you will be able to constrain your offerings to the guidelines that apply to postings on the Interchange!
> 
> Rather sad, actually.


This is why we can't have nice things.


----------



## alex87tkd (Jun 12, 2009)

Nicesuit's comment was hardly political.

Unless Moderators are defining political as anything to do with a political leader.

Looks like the poor moderating has spread from the Bespoke forum.


----------



## Pentheos (Jun 30, 2008)

Someone must still be in bed.


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

Sean1982 said:


> Actually the moderator said that their should be no more '*political statements'*.
> 
> I simply said that in my view the attitude towards politicians (and indeed aspects of dress generally) is political, and that avoiding this aspect is silly (but thus accepting that this subject is not for debate here). This does not go against anything that the omnipotent moderator has sent down on tablets from Mount Olympus. I did not mention my political views or accuse anyone of racism as per his 'instruction', unless you feel that saying politics exists and commenting as such is a politcal statment.
> 
> YOUR BEHAVIOUR IN SHOUTING AT ME IS RUDE AND IGNORANT, AND NOT CALLED FOR. I am a new member, and instead of being welcomed I have been treated in this delightful way! Very nice that you welcome people to 'your forum', thanks.


On behalf of the moderators, I apologise. You're new here so I'll try to explain.

We're only trying to keep politics from spreading to the Fashion Forum, like these threads regarding politicians' dress all inevitably do. Before I even became a moderator, threads like these got closed or sent to The Interchange often because they got too political. I hope you understand any frustration on our part. However, you got a little political with your praise of Obama and speaking for what your fellow countrymen think of him. We simply don't want that to turn into an argument.

I was also speaking to more people than just you with my statement, so the "racism accusations" aspect wasn't directed at you, just a general warning to all.


----------



## Sean1982 (Sep 7, 2009)

Jovan said:


> On behalf of the moderators, I apologise. You're new here so I'll try to explain.
> 
> We're only trying to keep politics from spreading to the Fashion Forum, like these threads regarding politicians' dress all inevitably do. Before I even became a moderator, threads like these got closed or sent to The Interchange often because they got too political. I hope you understand any frustration on our part. However, you got a little political with your praise of Obama and speaking for what your fellow countrymen think of him. We simply don't want that to turn into an argument.
> 
> I was also speaking to more people than just you with my statement, so the "racism accusations" aspect wasn't directed at you, just a general warning to all.


That you for this rather reasonable clarification. Sad to say that your colleagues shouted at me in an angry and exclusionary manner (which goes against the rule of being friendly, but has been totally accepted by the moderators), and another sent me a formal warning. Sending an initial private message or doing what you have just done seems a rather better first step to achieve your aim of civility and focus. I know how a gentleman would behave.

The actions of your colleagues make me consider if this is the kind of place for interesting dialogue, or a private clique that treats new members shoddily.


----------



## Jovan (Mar 7, 2006)

My intent is not to criticise my "colleagues" here. Anyways, it is best to address them about any issues you have with their actions. Challenging it in public is against the rules and why you got a warning.


----------



## Quay (Mar 29, 2008)

Dear Sean,

It is likely that you haven't been around long enough to know that the description of this sub-forum is quite at variance with its usual reality.



Sean1982 said:


> ...The actions of your colleagues make me consider if this is the kind of place for interesting dialogue, or a private clique that treats new members shoddily.


From another thread long ago:



TMMKC said:


> Quay said:
> 
> 
> > _This is The Interchange. Looking for understanding or anything other than simplistic things is, largely, a fool's errand._
> ...


Nevertheless, it can often be a source of amusement if not entertainment. :icon_smile:


----------



## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

I think Obama looks better in a suit (and most clothes) then most of our Presidents, but the other day I was watching him and I thought "damn that looks like a cheaper suit than I wear." 

He can and should do much better. When he gets around other leaders it can show by comparison, although with PM Brown not so much. I think Medvedev looks ill-fitted very often as well. Maybe if someone with Obama's frame dresed like Sarkozy it would be too over-the-top, but I doubt it.

At least Blair is not around as much. He's always dressing and speaking correctly; this type of stuff really hacks us Americans off! :icon_smile_wink:


----------



## ksinc (May 30, 2005)

Quay said:


> Nevertheless, it can often be a source of amusement if not entertainment. :icon_smile:


STALKER!


----------



## fenway (May 2, 2006)

You know who was a mess?

Chester A. Arthur.

That man couldn't dress at all. Him and Franklin Pierce. My vote is cast for them.


----------



## DCLawyer68 (Jun 1, 2009)

fenway said:


> You know who was a mess?
> 
> Chester A. Arthur.
> 
> That man couldn't dress at all. Him and Franklin Pierce. My vote is cast for them.


Oh, please. Next to Zachary Taylor, Chester Arthur was practically John Quincy Adams!

:icon_smile_wink:

Thanks for some much needed levity to this thread.


----------



## Acct2000 (Sep 24, 2005)

True, I think. I think I remember a documentary that said Arthur was a dandy in his time.


----------

