Fading Fast

Connoisseur
A great illustration depicting the privileged life back in the good old days. I'll bet a snapshot of the same type of activity present day would picture participants dressed far more casually. The times they are a-changing and perhaps not for the better! ;)
In NYC, at what looks like a daytime informal party - say a Sunday brunch at someone's apartment or something like that - there would definitely not be one tie and probably not one sport coat (I'd want to wear one, but am trying hard not to be the guy always overdressed no matter how dressed down I think I am).

Also, almost everyone would have on jeans (maybe a few pairs of sweats and some women in yoga pants) and it would be a mix of collared shirts, T-shirts, casual sweaters and sweatshirts (a few sports team hoodies for sure). A few women would be dressed nice casual - an updated version of the woman sitting, but probably no men would be. Heck, my not-tailored-style chinos would be the nicest pair of pants of all the men.
 

Fading Fast

Connoisseur
I remember brunch in NYC back in the late 70's early 80's, always wore a jacket and tie; just the way it was...
Yup, in the '80s always, '90s less so, '00s disappearing, 2010 and on, gone.

The change that I've experienced since coming to NYC in the '80s has been dramatic.

In the late '80s, a friend asked me to come to her coop board meeting. All the men were in suits and ties or, maybe, some sport coats, dress pants and ties, but everyone was dressed up.

At our last coop board meeting early this year, maybe ten percent of the men had on a suit and tie as they appeared to come from work. Another, say 20%, like me had on a sport coat, collared shirt and nice trousers. The rest were jeans, sweats, t-shirts, hoodies, puffer jackets etc. I'd gladly have worn a suit and tie, but knew that my sport coat, etc., would still have me in the upper percentile of dress.
 

drpeter

Senior Member
In NYC, at what looks like a daytime informal party - say a Sunday brunch at someone's apartment or something like that - there would definitely not be one tie and probably not one sport coat (I'd want to wear one, but am trying hard not to be the guy always overdressed no matter how dressed down I think I am).

Also, almost everyone would have on jeans (maybe a few pairs of sweats and some women in yoga pants) and it would be a mix of collared shirts, T-shirts, casual sweaters and sweatshirts (a few sports team hoodies for sure). A few women would be dressed nice casual - an updated version of the woman sitting, but probably no men would be. Heck, my not-tailored-style chinos would be the nicest pair of pants of all the men.
Out here in the great Midwest, the standard uniform for most social occasions consists of jeans, plaid flannel shirt, and a baseball cap (also known as a "seed corn cap" to some). Anything else, like wearing a sports jacket, is considered being dressed up. There are smaller subgroups of people who might wear a jacket or tie on a social occasion, but they are decidedly a minority, and they tend to be older. Caps are also worn indoors -- the old practice of removing one's hat or cap when indoors is no longer in force.

Maybe they still garden wearing neckties in Britain, LOL. Then again, maybe not.
 

Fading Fast

Connoisseur
Out here in the great Midwest, the standard uniform for most social occasions consists of jeans, plaid flannel shirt, and a baseball cap (also known as a "seed corn cap" to some). Anything else, like wearing a sports jacket, is considered being dressed up. There are smaller subgroups of people who might wear a jacket or tie on a social occasion, but they are decidedly a minority, and they tend to be older. Caps are also worn indoors -- the old practice of removing one's hat or cap when indoors is no longer in force.

Maybe they still garden wearing neckties in Britain, LOL. Then again, maybe not.
Indoor-baseball-cap wearing is a thing here too. Today (well pre-pandemic), you regularly see men sitting in pretty nice restaurants wearing a baseball cap all through the meal.

I've kinda gotten used to seeing it, but it took a bit as, growing up, while I never wore a traditional hat, like most kids in the '70s, I wore a baseball cap and my dad made it very clear you didn't wear it inside.

Heck, as a fan of old movies, you learn that "gentlemen" take their hats off inside, especially if there is a "lady" present (although, this rule is broken often in old movies, but almost never at restaurants).
 
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drpeter

Senior Member
A general question about these beautiful adverts from the past: My impression is that one finds drawn images in many more of the old ones than in contemporary magazines, which contain adverts with photographed images. Was there a slow move away from drawn images to photographed ones over time, perhaps as photography itself became more sophisticated? Was it perhaps the lower cost of reproducing photographic images, if indeed they cost less, compared to drawn images or artwork?

Perhaps this trend is something obvious, or else, perhaps I am off base entirely. But I have been looking through bound volumes of one influential magazine, Esquire, over the last year or two, and I have noticed far more of such drawn advertising images than in, say, a current edition of GQ or Vanity Fair or even the Sunday New York Times supplemental magazines on style or fashions that are put out from time to time. It seems a shame to have lost all those fine artistic drawings and images, which have an atmosphere, and consequently a value about them that photographed images cannot match, IMHO.

As we move to newer ways of doing things, it is perhaps inevitable that we lose some of the old ways. But it is also appropriate, even exemplary, that in a forum that honours a traditional style of dressing and comportment, we have a thread that gives us these older images. I want to thank @Fading Fast for posting these regularly. I, for one, continue to enjoy them, even though I don't always comment on every one of them.
 
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Fading Fast

Connoisseur
A general question about these beautiful adverts from the past: My impression is that one finds drawn images in many more of the old ones than in contemporary magazines, which contain adverts with photographed images. Was there a slow move away from drawn images to photographed ones over time, perhaps as photography itself became more sophisticated? Was it perhaps the lower cost of reproducing photographic images, if indeed they cost less, compared to drawn images or artwork?

Perhaps this trend is something obvious, or else, perhaps I am off base entirely. But I have been looking through bound volumes of one influential magazine, Esquire over the last year or two, and I have noticed far more of such drawn advertising images than in, say, a current edition of GQ or Vanity Fair or even the Sunday New York Times supplemental magazines on style or fashions that are put out from time to time. It seems a shame to have lost all those fine artistic drawings and images, which have an atmosphere, and consequently a value about them that photographed images cannot match, IMHO.

As we move to newer ways of doing things, it is perhaps inevitable that we lose some of the old ways. But it is also appropriate, even exemplary, that in a forum that honours a traditional style of dressing and comportment, we have a thread that gives us these older images. I want to thank @Fading Fast for posting these regularly. I, for one, continue to enjoy them, even though I don't always comment on every one of them.
Thank you for your kind comments of support - they are very much appreciated.

Like you, my guess is that both the relative cost and convenience has shifted in favor of photography versus illustrations over the years. And, I agree, illustrations capture a vibe - a stylized representation of the past - that is a shame has faded in popularity.

I feel the same way about B&W movies. Color movies are great, but so are B&Ws where the director can use the "limitations" and style of B&W film to create dramatic moods and draw stark contrasts in a way that color doesn't. Film noir wouldn't be film noir without B&W photography. Yes, there have been color "noir" films, but IMHO, they don't quite feel right.

I'm not advocating at all for "going back," as, as noted, color movies and photographs are fantastic and bring their own advantages and style as a record and representation of things; I just wish we'd also keep doing illustrations and B&W films.

Tangentially related, there are no crisper and clearer (higher resolutions?) movies in the '50s ('40s and '30s too, but '50s B&W technology got even better) than the B&W ones. A well-preserved or restored B&W movie provides an incredible amount of minute detail that the color films from that era do not.

Sports is another field where illustrations played a much bigger part of storytelling in the past. In old newspapers, you regularly see illustrations of players and key plays. It's fantastic to see how illustrators represented these games and participants. Especially next to a black and white photo taken without the zoom lenses of today, oftentimes, the illustration was more informative.

As to these daily posts, I don't have a process other than Googling or looking at Pinterest for illustrations, but every time I think I'm running out, a little more searching produces a new vein of them and away we go. Thank you again for your comments, glad you are enjoying the illustrations.
 

eagle2250

Connoisseur/Curmudgeon Emeritus - Moderator
Indoor-baseball-cap wearing is a thing here too. Today (well pre-pandemic), you regularly see men sitting in pretty nice restaurants wearing a baseball cap all through the meal.

I've kinda gotten used to seeing it, but it took a bit as, growing up, while I never wore a traditional hat, like most kids in the '70s, I wore a baseball cap and my dad made it very clear you didn't wear it inside.

Heck, as a fan of old movies, you learn that "gentlemen" take their hats off inside, especially if there is a "lady" presents (although, this rule is broken often in old movies, but almost never at restaurants).
LOL, it sounds like we were brought up in much the same way...when going indoors the hats came off! As one who doesn't seem to mix well with all this central Florida sunshine, I have from necessity formed an ongoing collaboration with a local dermatologist and have had several melanomas removed from my head neck and ears, as such became necessary and consequently wear hats or sometimes caps virtually every time we go out. As my Mama always taught us, "the hat comes off the minute you walk through the door" and it still, although somewhat inconvenient, seems the right thing to do. I really get a kick out of it on the rare occasion that a man sitting at a table sees me with my hat in hand and with some degree of embarrassment he removes his own hat. ;)

Kudos to your parents for bring you up well!
 

drpeter

Senior Member
Great comments. And you're very welcome.

Being a lover of cinema, I have taught film classes at my university in collaboration with a film professor friend for almost three decades now. We continue to teach a class to seniors as part of the University's programs for seniors in this town. On Wednesday, we had a Zoom discussion of our biweekly film, which we watch in our homes beforehand. This week, we discussed Vittorio de Sica's famous B&W classic Bicycle Thieves. (See, we have culture here in the hinterland, LOL).

It's an amazing restoration by Criterion Collection. The boxed set has the film, a second disc with supplemental material and a gorgeous book with full essays on the film by Cesare Zavattini, the screenwriter for the film and by critics like Andre Bazin. Criterion (along with Kino in Germany) is the best source for B&W and colour films, their restorations are exemplary and peerless. I have almost 150 Criterion DVDs and Blu Rays in my film library -- I am a hopeless addict when it comes to books, films, clothes, etc.

Criterion also sends me $50 gift certificates now and then in appreciation of all the business I do with them. I have also picked up beautiful used copies of their films online, especially through second hand shops or through eBay.

I agree that B&W is a marvellous medium, and I share with you the concern that such films are not being produced very much these days. Two exceptions that come to mind, the first somewhat older: Schindler's List and The Artist which won the Oscar for best picture a few years ago. Also, I have only seen the first two episodes of the Geman TV series, Babylon Berlin, the brilliant crime series set at the end of the Weimar period. (I don't get Netflix because it would be like giving booze to an alcoholic, I saw those at a friend's place). It uses faded out gritty colour and is perfectly noir in its sensibility and effect, although it is not B&W.

I have a 12-year-old Panasonic plasma screen which brings out blacks vividly. It is hooked up to a five- speaker French system by Focal and the whole thing is controlled by a Marantz receiver. I want to hang on to this TV as long as possible (In 2017, I had to find a new/old power supply for it) because plasma screens are no longer being made, as far as I know.

So yes, I share your sentiments about B&W films. Often an old B&W film on TCM on a Sunday morning or afternoon, is the best escape from the horrors of the current world.
 
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drpeter

Senior Member
Thank you for your kind comments of support - they are very much appreciated.

Like you, my guess is that both the relative cost and convenience has shifted in favor of photography versus illustrations over the years. And, I agree, illustrations capture a vibe - a stylized representation of the past - that is a shame has faded in popularity.

I feel the same way about B&W movies. Color movies are great, but so are B&Ws where the director can use the "limitations" and style of B&W film to create dramatic moods and draw stark contrasts in a way that color doesn't. Film noir wouldn't be film noir without B&W photography. Yes, there have been color "noir" films, but IMHO, they don't quite feel right.

I'm not advocating at all for "going back," as, as noted, color movies and photographs are fantastic and bring their own advantages and style as a record and representation of things; I just wish we'd also keep doing illustrations and B&W films.

Tangentially related, there are no crisper and clearer (higher resolutions?) movies in the '50s ('40s and '30s too, but '50s B&W technology got even better) than the B&W ones. A well-preserved or restored B&W movie provides an incredible amount of minute detail that the color films from that era do not.

Sports is another field where illustrations played a much bigger part of storytelling in the past. In old newspapers, you regularly see illustrations of players and key plays. It's fantastic to see how illustrators represented these games and participants. Especially next to a black and white photo taken without the zoom lenses of today, oftentimes, the illustration was more informative.

As to these daily posts, I don't have a process other than Googling or looking at Pinterest for illustrations, but every time I think I'm running out, a little more searching produces a new vein of them and away we go. Thank you again for your comments, glad you are enjoying the illustrations.
This just occurred to me: One other place where we see illustrations is in depictions of court scenes where the judge has forbidden the use of film cameras or other digital recorders. These are drawn quickly and then filled out later by skilled artists who are experts at this sort of illustration. And I don't need to remind anyone that we have had quite a number of court scenes on display in recent years, with the proliferation of controversial trials of various players in the national scene, political and otherwise
 

Fading Fast

Connoisseur
Great comments. And you're very welcome.

Being a lover of cinema, I have taught film classes at my university in collaboration with a film professor friend for almost three decades now. We continue to teach a class to seniors as part of the University's programs for seniors in this town. On Wednesday, we had a Zoom discussion of our biweekly film, which we watch in our homes beforehand. This week, we discussed Vittorio de Sica's famous B&W classic Bicycle Thieves. (See, we have culture here in the hinterland, LOL).

It's an amazing restoration by Criterion Collection. The boxed set has the film, a second disc with supplemental material and a gorgeous book with full essays on the film by Cesare Zavattini, the screenwriter for the film and by critics like Andre Bazin. Criterion (along with Kino in Germany) is the best source for B&W and colour films, their restorations are exemplary and peerless. I have almost 150 Criterion DVDs and Blu Rays in my film library -- I am a hopeless addict when it comes to books, films, clothes, etc.

Criterion also sends me $50 gift certificates now and then in appreciation of all the business I do with them. I have also picked up beautiful used copies of their films online, especially through second hand shops or through eBay.

I agree that B&W is a marvellous medium, and I share with you the concern that such films are not being produced very much these days. Two exceptions that come to mind, the first somewhat older: Schindler's List and The Artist which won the Oscar for best picture a few years ago. Also, I have only seen the first two episodes of the Geman TV series, Babylon Berlin, the brilliant crime series set at the end of the Weimar period. (I don't get Netflix because it would be like giving booze to an alcoholic, I saw those at a friend's place). It uses faded out gritty colour and is perfectly noir in its sensibility and effect, although it is not B&W.

I have a 12-year-old Panasonic plasma screen which brings out blacks vividly. It is hooked up to a five- speaker French system by Focal and the whole thing is controlled by a Marantz receiver. I want to hang on to this TV as long as possible (In 2017, I had to find a new/old power supply for it) because plasma screens are no longer being made, as far as I know.

So yes, I share your sentiments about B&W films. Often an old B&W film on TCM on a Sunday morning or afternoon, is the best escape from the horrors of the current world.
I agree with all this ⇧ and really smiled when you mentioned "Babylon Berlin," as you nailed the beautiful and noir-ish way it does color.

It is a perfect example of a modern production adapting color to a noir sensibility.

The show, beyond just the color, is so visually engaging - and the period details so wonderful - that we often have to stop and go back to read the subtitles as miss them because we get lost just watching it.

And while the story has gotten a bit more convoluted than necessary in the last season, it's still outstanding story telling with well-developed characters intelligently woven into the monumental history of the period. I'm sure you'll see the rest of it at some point.
 

drpeter

Senior Member
I agree with all this ⇧ and really smiled when you mentioned "Babylon Berlin," as you nailed the beautiful and noir-ish way it does color.

It is a perfect example of a modern production adapting color to a noir sensibility.

The show, beyond just the color, is so visually engaging - and the period details so wonderful - that we often have to stop and go back to read the subtitles as miss them because we get lost just watching it.

And while the story has gotten a bit more convoluted than necessary in the last season, it's still outstanding story telling with well-developed characters intelligently woven into the monumental history of the period. I'm sure you'll see the rest of it at some point.
I am waiting for the entire BB series to be released as a fine boxed set of Blu Rays with all the supplements. At present it is only available in Europe and Britain, PAL versions. Not being sold here in the US. I would pay well over $100 (in fact, asking price) for such a set.

And I forgot one other notable noir film in colour: Roman Polanski's classic Chinatown. Another brilliant film.
 

FiscalDean

Super Member
I agree with all this ⇧ and really smiled when you mentioned "Babylon Berlin," as you nailed the beautiful and noir-ish way it does color.

It is a perfect example of a modern production adapting color to a noir sensibility.

The show, beyond just the color, is so visually engaging - and the period details so wonderful - that we often have to stop and go back to read the subtitles as miss them because we get lost just watching it.

And while the story has gotten a bit more convoluted than necessary in the last season, it's still outstanding story telling with well-developed characters intelligently woven into the monumental history of the period. I'm sure you'll see the rest of it at some point.

My wife and I love Babylon Berlin. I find that we tend to re-watch episodes because we miss so much on the first viewing.
 

Fading Fast

Connoisseur
My wife and I love Babylon Berlin. I find that we tend to re-watch episodes because we miss so much on the first viewing.
Glad we are not alone. Heck, even the recaps they provide are confusing (and I miss some of their subtitles as well as I'm watching all the beautiful architecture, cars, clothes, etc. fly by).

The interior of the police station in the show is one of the most beautiful building interiors I've ever seen.
 

FiscalDean

Super Member
Glad we are not alone. Heck, even the recaps they provide are confusing (and I miss some of their subtitles as well as I'm watching all the beautiful architecture, cars, clothes, etc. fly by).

The interior of the police station in the show is one of the most beautiful building interiors I've ever seen.

Having visited Berlin a couple of years ago, it's interesting to see how much has changed.

Our tour group was scheduled to spend 2 days in Berlin but my wife and I rented a car to drive to the village that bears my family name. I'd like to go some day to see what we missed on the second day.
 
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