127.72 MHz

Advanced Member
Okay, I'll connect the dots.

I too would like to believe that public health is an objective study but it is not. For years I have dealt with some very bright statisticians with MPH who's specific area of study involves skewing statistics, blatantly betraying their political activism.

The Atlantic, which I subscribe to, is rated as a left leaning news source by both Media bias fact and All Sides.



Being a left leanings news source The Atlantic is not interested in exploring a wide spectrum of political thought. Moreover, the statement; "The gap between soaring cases and falling deaths is being weaponized by the right to claim a hallow victory in the face of shameless failure, what's really going on?" Is in and of itself a highly subjective, speculative, and clearly biased statement.

So, that is the connection between your post and The Atlantic's skewed data manipulation masquerading as objective fact.

I would be interested in seeing The Atlantic, The New Yorker, NYTimes, Wa.Po., MSNBC, or NPR do an in depth exposé regarding demonstrable facts concerning the spread of the covid19 virus.

And who, specifically, is responsible for actions that were not incompetence or a mistake, but willful and harmful actions to the entire world. But I have to admit, that would not sell near as much media as using this crisis as a divisive political club to beat about half of the USA's populace.

From watching your posts over a period of years I believe you to be an academic. That being said I hope that you will agree that tracking the data concerning this pandemic is so complex that it leaves wide openings for subjective politically biased interpretation. And, the USA is living in a hyper-polarized environment.
 
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Flanderian

Connoisseur
Okay, I'll connect the dots.

I too would like to believe that public health is an objective study but it is not. For years I have dealt with some very bright statisticians with MPH who's specific area of study involves skewing statistics, blatantly betraying their political activism.

The Atlantic, which I subscribe to, is rated as a left leaning news source by both Media bias fact and All Sides.



Being a left leanings news source The Atlantic is not interested in exploring a wide spectrum of political thought. Moreover, the statement; "The gap between soaring soaring cases and falling deaths is being weaponized by the right to claim a hallow victory in the face of shameless failure, what's really going on?" Is in and of itself a highly subjective, speculative, and clearly biased statement.

So, that is the connection between your post and The Atlantic's skewed data manipulation masquerading as objective fact.

I would be interested in seeing The Atlantic, The New Yorker, NYTimes, Wa.Po., MSNBC, or NPR do an in depth exposé regarding demonstrable facts concerning the spread of the covid19 virus.

And who, specifically, is responsible for actions that were not incompetence or a mistake, but willful and harmful actions to the entire world. But I have to admit that would not sell near as much media as using this crisis as a decisive political club to beat about half of the USA populace.

From watching your posts over a period of years I believe you to be an academic. That being said I hope that you will agree that tracking the data concerning this pandemic is so complex that it leaves wide openings for subjective politically biased interpretation. And, the USA is living in a hyper-polarized environment.
I have no interest in the left-right debate, and none in debate for its own sake. Nothing wrong with debate, it's both a skill and art, and good for training several abilities, but I have no interest in it. The whole left-right ping pong match is very, very tiresome to me. I know others enjoy it. Sorry, I don't.

I didn't post The Atlantic article because of its political views, I posted it because I consider this article a pretty good article on a topic that's puzzled and interested me. I.e., why are cases soaring, when deaths have not risen proportionately? I think anyone, and probably pretty much everyone, who has been following the data has wondered the same thing.

Your quoted sensational lead aside, the balance of the article explores in a methodical and reasonable way 5 hypothetical/likely reasons to explain this. And none of them are really new, they've all been mentioned previously elsewhere in the press, and in interviews with various medical authorities. All he does is put them in order, relate them, and explore each in a systematic, though brief section. I don't see the skewed data manipulation.

He doesn't suggest that Republican governors are manipulating some states' data, or that it's all some sort of conspiracy, he just provides information. For example, while I might have had it in the back of my mind that there's a lag between the reporting of one data set, cases, and that of another, fatalities, he explains simply (So that I can understand it! :D) why there would be a lag, and what it would be.(I.e., it can be 3 or 4 weeks.) I had never really attempted to quantify it, so that's helpful to me. If it was already obvious to others, more power to 'ya!

Far from skewing data, in 3 of his 5 reasons he points out that more testing will find less sick patients, and younger patients less likely to die, and that medical care has improved due to experience in treating the disease, all reasons that do not strengthen the premise for his "gotcha phrase" (Now students, always begin an article with a sensational statement the will grab the reader's interest! ;)) that you quoted.

But obviously, different folks apparently will derive different things from this article. I found it interesting and informative, sorry that you did not.
 
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Big T

Senior Member
Our country's leaders have made the pandemic a selective, political issue (both sides of the aisle). We have/had the ability to contain, but we also let emotions get ginned up, by the extremes of both sides (I'm a right leaning libertarian).

In my rural county, we have a low infection rate, lower than average. My controller's (her office is across the hall from) son, is infected. PA has been doing an above average job of contact tracing, and all in my office, have been given instructions for ALL to get tested, if anyone shows symptoms. This is now 3-1/2 weeks in, so we are pretty safe. No one else in my controller's family has shown symptoms, and neither has anyone in my office. Why? I suppose every single one of us has abided by the guidelines.

Politics will be the ruination of this great republic. It is nothing but a game for both parties, with those of us in the middle left holding the bag. Where else would a guy like Trump (I voted for him) get elected? Lesser of two evils, but as George Carlin said, still evil. Why would a major party field a tainted candidate such as H. Clinton? Or presently Uncle Joe (not tainted, but way, way past his prime)?
 

Tiger

Advanced Member
Pretty damn close to the truest words ever written.
As ignorant and wildly biased as could be. It epitomizes much of the propaganda that Americans are subjected to on a daily basis from our “objective” media whose tendentiousness is a disgrace to the profession.
 

Tiger

Advanced Member
I have no interest in the left-right debate, and none in debate for its own sake. Nothing wrong with debate, it's both a skill and art, and good for training several abilities, but I have no interest in it. The whole left-right ping pong match is very, very tiresome to me. I know others enjoy it. Sorry, I don't.
Yet, you have posted - on multiple occasions - articles or your own thoughts that were politically motivated and slanted, and have attacked others on an ad hominem basis rather than on an objective, factual one.
 

Mr. B. Scott Robinson

Advanced Member
Looking forward to where this discussion will be in mid August when things are completely off the rails.

My prediction is that none participating will have altered their position on any aspect one iota.

A bit like a soap opera. Years pass and the plot never seems to advance.

Cheers,

BSR
 

127.72 MHz

Advanced Member
It is my sincere hope that you are incorrect on the "off the rails" part.

Looking forward to where this discussion will be in mid August when things are completely off the rails.

My prediction is that none participating will have altered their position on any aspect one iota.

A bit like a soap opera. Years pass and the plot never seems to advance.

Cheers,

BSR
 

Big T

Senior Member
Looking forward to where this discussion will be in mid August when things are completely off the rails.

My prediction is that none participating will have altered their position on any aspect one iota.

A bit like a soap opera. Years pass and the plot never seems to advance.

Cheers,

BSR
What do you expect? We're in a presidential election year, and one candidate is trying his best to not appear off his rocker and the other continues to poke the beast with his outlandish blather.

Is that fiddlin' I hear?

PS: I disagree that positions won't change! I don't believe any here are politicians, and in today's US, at least on the national level, that is the litmus test for acceptance into the "off yer nut' club. Bear in mind, I am not referring to guv'mint employees, as I believe (for the most part) they all try to do their best, given the sometime influence of patronize by the elected that are their bosses.

Shut the polly's up, let Dr. Birx, Fauci and so forth, do their job, unimpeded by the blather. Their views may differ, but as scientists, they generally reach statistical concensus.
 

Mr. B. Scott Robinson

Advanced Member
Here in Atlanta, things seem to be going off the rails. In the southeast, they might be heading off the rails, down the gorge, and in a smoldering mass of twisted metal, going over a Niagara like waterfall.

But that is just an opinion. The massive increase in virus cases, filling hospitals, arguments between the mayor of the capital city and the governor, a return of the capital to phase 1 measures, children being killed in the streets by armed vigilantes, the national guard being called out to protect government property from armed vandals...can certainly be interpreted as an overall positive if one is an anarchist.

And anarchy is a system we haven’t given a fair shake, so who is to judge....

Cheers,

BSR
 

Big T

Senior Member
Here in Atlanta, things seem to be going off the rails. In the southeast, they might be heading off the rails, down the gorge, and in a smoldering mass of twisted metal, going over a Niagara like waterfall.

But that is just an opinion. The massive increase in virus cases, filling hospitals, arguments between the mayor of the capital city and the governor, a return of the capital to phase 1 measures, children being killed in the streets by armed vigilantes, the national guard being called out to protect government property from armed vandals...can certainly be interpreted as an overall positive if one is an anarchist.

And anarchy is a system we haven’t given a fair shake, so who is to judge....

Cheers,

BSR
And the anarchists are chasing a tiger, grabbing for the tail. What will they do when they have the tiger by the tail?

Politicians all need to shut up! Remove the attention from the anarchists! Leave the scientists and medical profession handle the pandemic. Above all ( and this us a pipe dream) we citizens deserve the truth.
 

127.72 MHz

Advanced Member
But the politicians, their campaign's and handlers, are not to going to shut up or even quiet down, it's an election year.

And, in the midst of a pandemic the truth, which leaves wide openings for political rhetoric, centrally involves the word, "Safety." (Over the years I've been involved in many hospital staff meetings that devolved into accomplishing nothing because "Safety" is highly subjective.)

If one's definition of safety only involves not becoming infected with the covid19 virus, the safest thing to do is lock down everyone with food being delivered via a central source until an effective vaccine is developed,.....Of course this is absurd.

So whomever sets policy in this pandemic leaves wide openings for the subjective judgement of their opponent's.

Yesterday I listened to Dr. Fauci say that he was concerned about virus hot spots and, in his opinion, those areas might need to be shut down, again. (The "Safest" thing if infection is one's only concern.)

And then the headline will be that whomever did not lockdown cares more about money, (the economy) than the live's of citizens,.........And we all know where it goes from there.

We're all in for quite a ride.

And the anarchists are chasing a tiger, grabbing for the tail. What will they do when they have the tiger by the tail?

Politicians all need to shut up! Remove the attention from the anarchists! Leave the scientists and medical profession handle the pandemic. Above all ( and this us a pipe dream) we citizens deserve the truth.
 
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Flanderian

Connoisseur
And anarchy is a system we haven’t given a fair shake, so who is to judge....
IMO, anarchy is innately incompatible with the human species. I think we too often ignore that we too are a species . And I view humans as the most social of all animal species, one whose entire concept of reality is the product of evolutionary social interaction, and that we are hard-wired to adopt certain behaviors as forms of coping. As such, I believe anarchy is at most a transitory state to evolving new hierarchies.
 

eagle2250

Connoisseur/Curmudgeon Emeritus - Moderator
And the anarchists are chasing a tiger, grabbing for the tail. What will they do when they have the tiger by the tail?

Politicians all need to shut up! Remove the attention from the anarchists! Leave the scientists and medical profession handle the pandemic. Above all ( and this us a pipe dream) we citizens deserve the truth.
Perhaps it's time for the brotherhood to pause and reflect and watch (or re-watch) the movie Soylent Green. "What's your favorite color?" LOL. ;)
 

thefringthing

Starting Member
The massive increase in virus cases, filling hospitals, arguments between the mayor of the capital city and the governor, a return of the capital to phase 1 measures, children being killed in the streets by armed vigilantes, the national guard being called out to protect government property from armed vandals...can certainly be interpreted as an overall positive if one is an anarchist.
This is off-topic, but anarchism is not pro-chaos, but rather anti-hierarchy (both social and economic). If you're interested in learning what anarchism is actually about, some classics include Alexander Berkman's What is Anarchism?, Rudolph Rocker's Anarcho-Syndicalism: Theory and Practice, Murray Bookchin's Post-Scarcity Anarchism, and Piotr Kropotkin's The Conquest of Bread, all of which were published as a series by AK Press and are readily available wherever you get used books. (And all were written long before the current president began referring to anyone opposing him in the street as an anarchist.)
 

Tiger

Advanced Member
This is off-topic, but anarchism is not pro-chaos, but rather anti-hierarchy (both social and economic). If you're interested in learning what anarchism is actually about, some classics include Alexander Berkman's What is Anarchism?, Rudolph Rocker's Anarcho-Syndicalism: Theory and Practice, Murray Bookchin's Post-Scarcity Anarchism, and Piotr Kropotkin's The Conquest of Bread, all of which were published as a series by AK Press and are readily available wherever you get used books. (And all were written long before the current president began referring to anyone opposing him in the street as an anarchist.)
Anarchism and anarchy are not the same things. An anarchist could be a supporter of either.

In addition, the “people in the streets” are clearly opposed to far more things than Mr. Trump, although seem quite reticent to speak out against certain types of violent and murderous behavior, even when prevalent. Very peculiar...
 

127.72 MHz

Advanced Member
This is off-topic, but anarchism is not pro-chaos, but rather anti-hierarchy (both social and economic). If you're interested in learning what anarchism is actually about, some classics include Alexander Berkman's What is Anarchism?, Rudolph Rocker's Anarcho-Syndicalism: Theory and Practice, Murray Bookchin's Post-Scarcity Anarchism, and Piotr Kropotkin's The Conquest of Bread, all of which were published as a series by AK Press and are readily available wherever you get used books. (And all were written long before the current president began referring to anyone opposing him in the street as an anarchist.)

I can say with little doubt that the vast majority of individuals who are vandalizing private property, looting, attempting to raze buildings, and spray painting the "A" logo surrounded by a circle cannot even spell anarchy, let alone intellectualize it's meaning,.....
 

Flanderian

Connoisseur
There's far more that's uncertain about Covid-19, than what is certain. As more experience is gained in treating the disease caused by this novel virus, it's been observed that for some the process of recovery is uncertain, with some suffering long-term consequences from the infection. -


 
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