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Does Borrelli Make More than One Quality Line of Shirt?

17K views 42 replies 18 participants last post by  mafoofan 
#1 ·
I've seen several different labels on Borrelli shirts and have wondered whether they might be producing more than one grade of shirt. Some of the labels have the word BORRELLI writ large, with Napoli very small. Others have LB in large letters, and still others have had the names of stores for whom the shirt was supplied written below the Borrelli wording, as, for example, in Borrelli per MD'Anna. Is there any significance in the particular style of the label? Is label style related to the market (European or North American) for which the shirts are produced? In a related question (that just occurred to me) is it possible that there's also a difference in quality between shirts produced for the two markets (I know there is a difference in cut)?
 
#4 ·
There is only one line of Borrelli shirts, with the debateable exception of their "Royal Collection." I wouldn't necessarily call Royal Collection shirts to be separate line, as they are constructed the same. However, they do sport a different label and use nicer fabrics. Strictly speaking, "Royal Collection" probably applies to the fabrics, not the shirts as a whole.
 
#5 · (Edited)
With a spectrum of experiences that forum members posed with Borelli, it seems that they do have several quality levels for shirts, i.e. their quality is all over the place.
I'm not going to say Borrelli is perfect, but I think there is a lot of mis-information floating around this forum. I've had a dozen or so shirts made by them over the past 3 years and none exhibit the abysmal 4-stitches-per-inch that some have alluded to. My Borrelli shirts tend to have somewhere between 8-10 stitches per inch. This may not be stellar, but it's not horrible either!

Also, there are a number of options available in their MTM program that allow for very different shirts to be made. Some will have the exaggerated shirring and pleating at the shoulders and yoke that people seem to think are cartoonish. However, many lack either of these features. You can stipulate whether you prefer them or not when you order. Thus, the criticisms that Borrelli shirts are one way or another seem a little over-extended to me in light of the fact that there is no one set of mandated features.

That being said, I have had problems with the buttons falling off. This is a ridiculous problem to have with a $400+ shirt. The fact that they are handswen on shouldn't be an excuse (the boutique in NYC has tried to give me this explanation). On one of my shirts, the thread has come loose at the armhole--a serious problem given the way the sleeves are sewed on (without a lock stitch). Also, some of the twill fabrics tend to develop runs in them very quickly, and the fabrics in general are not as nice once you've compared them to what bespoke makers offer. Only the Royal Collection shirts use Sea Island cotton, and they are around $600 I believe.

Nonetheless, if the handsewing is important to you--and many strongly and persuasively argue it shouldn't be--there aren't many other options in the U.S. for the price.
 
#7 ·
Perhaps it's my lack of knowledge, but I don't understand why someone would spend $400 for a RTW shirt. Can't someone get similar quality fabric that is MTM for that type of money?
Easily.
 
#11 ·
Most Borrelli RTW is over $400 at shops near me. Nevertheless, to get a good fabric from them you really need to look at the Royal Collection (which signifies the 140s and up) and then you are talking about a lot of money for a rather mediocre shirt.
Most every fabric I was looking at when I was at the Borrelli boutique a couple of months ago in NYC ran $400 a shirt MTM, give or take $10. The shirts I ordered were $380 before tax. It's even cheaper if you go through a vendor that discounts. I've gotten 15 percent off at a boutique in Maryland on a MTM order. I'm not sure why everyone is reporting such high prices elsewhere else. A phone call to the boutique in NYC should clarify the matter.

You're right though about the Royal Collection: $600+ a shirt.

Still, if you value hand-sewing to the degree they do it in a Borrelli, I'm not sure there are any viable alternatives in the U.S., even if the fabrics are over-priced.
 
#13 ·
Try the boutique in Manhattan. Can anyone solidly confirm the high prices they are seeing? What stores?

I hate that so much bad stigma has developed with regard to Borrelli on this forum. Sure, there are things to criticize--in fact, I'm looking for another shirt source--but mostly what I read here are rumors and hearsay.
 
#14 ·
Try the boutique in Manhattan. Can anyone solidly confirm the high prices they are seeing? What stores?

I hate that so much bad stigma has developed with regard to Borrelli on this forum. Sure, there are things to criticize--in fact, I'm looking for another shirt source--but mostly what I read here are rumors and hearsay.
Well, for my part I changed my mind when I first started wearing real handmade shirts. I further changed when I realized that they were less expensive or the same price.

Borrelli has some very, very nice shirt patterns.
 
#15 ·
Well, for my part I changed my mind when I first started wearing real handmade shirts. I further changed when I realized that they were less expensive or the same price.
Unfortunately, not all of us can make it to Naples for the real deal :). If you are talking about Anna Mattuozo, I don't think anyone here will dispute the superiority of her shirts, especially since they are true bespoke. But do you know of another shirt easily available in U.S. that offers the handwork that is put into a Borrelli that can be ordered MTM?

I can't think of one myself. The short list of shirtmakers that do what Borrelli does in the U.S. allows them to charge quite a premium.
 
#17 ·
I have a few that I've bought at deep discount (FB $60-100). The tagged prices were between 350-450.
 
#20 ·
Unfortunately, not all of us can make it to Naples for the real deal :). If you are talking about Anna Mattuozo, I don't think anyone here will dispute the superiority of her shirts, especially since they are true bespoke. But do you know of another shirt easily available in U.S. that offers the handwork that is put into a Borrelli that can be ordered MTM?

I can't think of one myself. The short list of shirtmakers that do what Borrelli does in the U.S. allows them to charge quite a premium.
Well, you only need to go once and then you can order from here the rest of your life. The difference is staggering.
 
#23 ·
One observation and one question: First the observation: I think it's clear that the Borrelli price reflects that, unlike almost all other RTW shirts, these have a tremendous amount of hand stitching. To some, there is a difference in quality between shirts that have been guided (by hand) through a sewing machine (not, therefore, hand-stitched), and those that have had the stitches done by a seamstress with needle and thread. To others, this distinction is of little or no importance. One could, therefore, say that $400 for a RTW shirt is ridiculous, but if hand-stitching is important, it really isn't.

Second, the question: Some mention has been made of the Royal Collection line of Borrellis and their 140's and up cotton. Does anyone know what quality (yarn number) of cotton is used in the regular line? 100's?

Oh, perhaps a third point. There are several online sources for Borrelli shirts for something on the order of $150. Ian Daniels at World's Finest (or his other store, Shop the Finest) comes immediately to mind. If you like the patterns you see there and know your size, Borrelli shirts are quite affordable. Actually, Ian has a lot of everything Borrelli--suits, jackets, trousers, shirts.... Other discount sellers of Borrelli can be found on eBay. :icon_smile:
 
#24 · (Edited)
I just visited Borrelli's Palm Beach boutique last week and IIRC collar selection for MTM is limited to around twenty stock collar styles with no modifications to spread, stand or leaf. Sounds more like MTO.
Did you bother to ask about how they do their MTM program before concluding that it's MTO? Have you ever tried the program yourself? Your conclusion is premature and presumptious.

First of all, though Borrelli won't individualize a new collar shape for you, neither will most MTM programs. They will, however, cut and scale the collar to a specific width that is not available on a stock collar: my collars are cut to the quarter-inch since I fit between stock sizes. Furthermore, 20 collar styles is a lot of collar styles for MTM: who do you know that offers more?

Second, I can assure you, Borrelli's program is MTM. They have several body styles that can be tweaked here and there. For example, my shirts have a wider chest (by 2 inches) and narrower waist (by 1.5 inches) than the stock template. A MTO program would require me to stay within the boundaries of a given shirt body--no fabric could be 'added' to increase the chest width. Thus, the shirts are not modified after manufacture, but during manufacture, before arriving at the store. Needless to say, the shirt is also cut to the right length, as are the sleeves. Collars are not simply stock collars but cut to a specific measure, as noted above. One can specify whether they want gauntlet buttons, the degree of desired shirring at the arm, cuff, and yoke, the pleating format at the yoke (single, box, or none), and cuff style (made to whatever width is specified). These are but some of the options available.

A good example of MTO would be the program that Charvet runs out of Bergdorf. They have stock body templates that they will not alter in any way. They have, I think, 4 or 5 collars to pick from, and there can be no tweaking of measurements. To Charvet's credit, they do not misrepresent this information at all, and in fact recommended Borrelli when they realized they would not be able to fit me properly.

Please don't post bad information about things which you do not know of that then require lengthy responses to clarify the matter in your wake.
 
#25 ·
Second, the question: Some mention has been made of the Royal Collection line of Borrellis and their 140's and up cotton. Does anyone know what quality (yarn number) of cotton is used in the regular line? 100's?
The 'regular line' actually is composed of multiple price levels, and thus fabrics of different thread counts. I think the distinguishing feature of the Royal Collection is not, strictly speaking, the thread count but the quality and length of the fibers. The information I received from the manager of the NYC boutique indicated that the Royal Collection fabrics are made of See Island cotton whereas the regular collection fabrics are not; thread counts vary.
 
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