roman totale XVII

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
I just received some J Press OCBDs, with the flap pocket. Interestingly, they came wrapped in BB-logo'd paper. The name doesn't appear, but the hanging sheep logo and '1818' do. I thought the Garland factory had closed, but maybe they're doing contract manufacturing?
 

DCR

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
I just received some J Press OCBDs, with the flap pocket. Interestingly, they came wrapped in BB-logo'd paper. The name doesn't appear, but the hanging sheep logo and '1818' do. I thought the Garland factory had closed, but maybe they're doing contract manufacturing?

😂 amazing
 

vonSuess

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
Chinese companies are notorious for delivering what they think the client will accept, rather than what was specified in the contract.
Isn't that the truth? I think China's happiest customers are those who demand the best but don't know the difference. They are really just price buyers and China knows how to deal with them...
 

Steve Smith

Super Member
I just received some J Press OCBDs, with the flap pocket. Interestingly, they came wrapped in BB-logo'd paper. The name doesn't appear, but the hanging sheep logo and '1818' do. I thought the Garland factory had closed, but maybe they're doing contract manufacturing?
The Brooks Brothers Garland, NC shirt factory has been closed for a year now. About 40% of the shirts manufactured there were 'third party', which means other brands. The list of other brands over the last decade or so is long. I will take a stab, just off the top of my head: J. Press, Club Monaco, Ike Behar, SHIPS, Southwick (another BB-owned company), Thom Browne, Billy Reid, Haspel, Carson Clothiers, Ball & Buck, UnTuckit, Vermont Flannel... it's a long list.

Realize that your favorite brand may not own any manufacturing capacity. I'm guessing that J. Press falls into that category. So if you believe that your made in USA J. Press shirt, for example, is 'higher quality' than a MIUSA BB shirt, then great. But it may have been manufactured in a Brooks Brothers factory with exactly the same machines and workers that made the BB shirt.
 

TKI67

Elite Member
I find it interesting how so many different brands made in the same factory yield, in many buyers' minds, such different outcomes. Was the venerated roll of the collar on a Brooks Brothers OCBD of old truly something no one else could ever duplicate? IMO, no. Of course one must assume that different brands provided different specifications as to fabric, cut, and construction. Even for something as common as oxford cloth there is a good bit of variety. The Gitman for O'Connell's are markedly heftier than anything I ever got at Brooks or Press. (And the collar roll is pretty nice, too.)
 

drpeter

Super Member
One of the factors inherent in almost all of our responses to clothing and style, and our judgments of quality, are based on certain highly subjective values that we hold about clothes. Now there's no denying that there are areas of commonality and agreement that cut across such subjectivity, so that we can get a certain level of agreement between observers of cut and style, of fabric and provenance, and a host of other things including histories of specific garments, cloth, tailoring.

Given all these factors, it is not surprising that the identical garment, produced in the same factory, can give rise to differing opinions in terms of style. I will exclude objectively measurable aspects like the weight of the cloth, the specific weaves, and so on. But the label placed on a shirt, for example, invariably sways us to regard that garment within the context of the history of that brand. And the more venerable that brand, the more likely we are to form a certain kind of judgment about it.

There is no harm in this way of doing things. In the end, what we want are clothes that will please us. That is really what matters.
 

TKI67

Elite Member
One of the factors inherent in almost all of our responses to clothing and style, and our judgments of quality, are based on certain highly subjective values that we hold about clothes. Now there's no denying that there are areas of commonality and agreement that cut across such subjectivity, so that we can get a certain level of agreement between observers of cut and style, of fabric and provenance, and a host of other things including histories of specific garments, cloth, tailoring.

Given all these factors, it is not surprising that the identical garment, produced in the same factory, can give rise to differing opinions in terms of style. I will exclude objectively measurable aspects like the weight of the cloth, the specific weaves, and so on. But the label placed on a shirt, for example, invariably sways us to regard that garment within the context of the history of that brand. And the more venerable that brand, the more likely we are to form a certain kind of judgment about it.

There is no harm in this way of doing things. In the end, what we want are clothes that will please us. That is really what matters.
There was a period, largely in the nineties and the aughts, when I found BB and JAB PPOBDs and suits indistinguishable. So I often saved the money and wore JAB to work. I tried to love Press because I like MIUSA and I prefer oxford to pinpoint, but in the end I just could not embrace the fit of the shirts or navigating the flap pockets with my pen. I did like their suits and jackets, but times change and people move on.
 

August West

Senior Member
I find it interesting how so many different brands made in the same factory yield, in many buyers' minds, such different outcomes. Was the venerated roll of the collar on a Brooks Brothers OCBD of old truly something no one else could ever duplicate? IMO, no.
I would agree generally, though I will say that in my experience the collar roll on a J Press shirt is lousy. My J Press collars on shirts purchased in the last decade seem to want to roll inward. I no longer buy shirts from them as a result.

Not exactly on topic but Press is getting the shoulders right on their sports coats again, and they are now my go to in that department. There are fairly regular and meaningful discounts as well, which is the icing on the cake.
 

drpeter

Super Member
Excellent points, August West! I think we can pick and choose those items we find attractive and to our taste from a given brand, like J Press or BB. At the same time, there may be items, like the shirts you mention, that are not satisfactory from your perspective, and you can leave those aside. Personally, I don't think my tastes direct me to any one maker for all of my needs -- I am far too eclectic for that.

As for J Press suits, I have been concerned about their trouser legs and cuffs -- I wonder if they have succumbed to current fashion and made those legs tighter and the cuffs narrower. Likewise, I wonder if their jackets are cut shorter than usual. I know that O'Connell's still make trousers the classic way, and they will have my custom as long as that is the case.

We must also consider the fact that all of these firms, stretched as they were by an already declining demand for suits and other dressy items, and then hit by the pandemic and the shift to the work-from-home system, have to pay a lot of attention to what the majority wants in order to survive. I can understand if they provide shorter jackets and tighter trousers to those who want to be au courant. But I hope they will have a small number of traditional items still available for those of us who like the old styles and cuts and materials.
 

TKI67

Elite Member
I would agree generally, though I will say that in my experience the collar roll on a J Press shirt is lousy. My J Press collars on shirts purchased in the last decade seem to want to roll inward. I no longer buy shirts from them as a result.

Not exactly on topic but Press is getting the shoulders right on their sports coats again, and they are now my go to in that department. There are fairly regular and meaningful discounts as well, which is the icing on the cake.
I had that issue with their collars, too, but it has been a long time since I had one. My recollection was that they were a tad shorter than BB, Gitman, or Mercer.
 
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