eagle2250

Connoisseur/Curmudgeon Emeritus - Moderator
From a Ralph email the other day titled "Collegiate Prep."
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As we so often see happening, Ralph is messing with our minds, but the ad does raise an issue for consideration...are letterman sweaters coming back and forcing out letterman jackets as the athelets garment of choice? And please forgive me, but I just can't restrain myself from taking advantage of this opportunity to brag a little. In keeping with the letterman theme, both of our grandsons proved their mettle at the Regional wrestling championships and will be competing in Florida's State Wrestling Championship this coming weekend. We are very proud of them. ;)
 

TKI67

Elite Member
LOL. Tongue firmly in cheek, may I suggest that the logical end to this progression of comfort might be to dispense with trousers altogether, and embrace the great ancient Roman tradition of men (and women) wearing tunics. Very comfortable especially in hot weather (I have been in Rome and Southern Italy in August, it is almost as hot as South India!). After all the mighty Roman army, which conquered a good chunk of the known world then, were men in "dresses" -- well, tunics. With a bit of leather and metal armour, I'll concede. The Conquest of Gaul, anyone?

There is also a long tradition, in many hot countries in Asia, of men and women wearing sarongs, mundus, and other wraparound garments. Very light and comfortable, and I have seen men do heavy labour wearing them. But I imagine the Western influence could become stronger over time and those folks would be wearing sweatpants too!

Seriously, though, I think we are seeing the exodus of formal clothes, hastened by changes in perception, and by the lockdown last year. Whether there will be a return to those sorts of clothes remains to be seen. But if fashion goes in cycles, we might get back to suits and ties in a few years. The requirements for clothing in various types of work, and in different societies, cultures and subcultures will have a lot to do with the clothing they adopt. Some segments of society may change little: I can't see the military change types of clothing in any dramatic way in the next fifty years -- but maybe I am wrong.
Semper MCMLXVII et Ursi Theodores!
 

drpeter

Super Member
Ah, to arrest time and savour the same day, the same month, the same year, over and over again. Hmmm...I seem to recollect a movie about that sort of thing. It involved groundhogs, though, not teddy bears.

There used to be a St Theodore's Catholic Church in Rochester, NY, where I went to graduate school. I am certain you don't mean that, LOL.
 

TKI67

Elite Member
Ah, to arrest time and savour the same day, the same month, the same year, over and over again. Hmmm...I seem to recollect a movie about that sort of thing. It involved groundhogs, though, not teddy bears.

There used to be a St Theodore's Catholic Church in Rochester, NY, where I went to graduate school. I am certain you don't mean that, LOL.
You are safe. We are not going back to grad school! It is interesting to me what a pivotal year 1967 was. I graduated from high school in Virginia in 1967, a very traditional Episcopal all boys prep school, and while there I was thrust into the cauldron of the prep attire police. I spent much of the summer in San Francisco and then started college in Claremont, where my uniform was decidedly less rigid. So when I say that I am stuck in 1967 it includes both modes of dress and life!
 

drpeter

Super Member
You are safe. We are not going back to grad school! It is interesting to me what a pivotal year 1967 was. I graduated from high school in Virginia in 1967, a very traditional Episcopal all boys prep school, and while there I was thrust into the cauldron of the prep attire police. I spent much of the summer in San Francisco and then started college in Claremont, where my uniform was decidedly less rigid. So when I say that I am stuck in 1967 it includes both modes of dress and life!
Of course, 1967 brings to mind the Summer of Love. I wonder if you got involved in all that after your high school graduation, especially since you were in San Francisco.

I went to an Indian school that was structured along the lines of an English boys' public school, except for the fact that we were day scholars, and not boarders. LOL, caning was a regular feature, although done by the masters and not the monitors or prefects. I think the school started out in the early 20th century as a boarding school, and our first (and perhaps the second) headmaster was English -- a man named GF Clarke. The school itself was funded by the then King of Travancore, who also had the English start University College, modeled after University College London, in the late nineteenth century. Again, the principals of University College were mostly Englishmen, and later on, Indians. When I was there in the early and mid-60s, Clarke's bungalow was still standing at one corner of the school quad where the classrooms and halls were located. After school, I went to the above-mentioned University College for my undergraduate BSc (honours) in mathematics.

I can say that my education was a classical one in a sense, although the classics involved were both Western and Indian. But our masters strongly encouraged us to read widely outside school, and that was a real education too. Travel was also suggested as a fine way to broaden the mind, although most of us could not afford any sort of extended travel. I've told many friends that I would not change one bit of my education if I had to do it all over again.
 

TKI67

Elite Member
Of course, 1967 brings to mind the Summer of Love. I wonder if you got involved in all that after your high school graduation, especially since you were in San Francisco.

I went to an Indian school that was structured along the lines of an English boys' public school, except for the fact that we were day scholars, and not boarders. LOL, caning was a regular feature, although done by the masters and not the monitors or prefects. I think the school started out in the early 20th century as a boarding school, and our first (and perhaps the second) headmaster was English -- a man named GF Clarke. The school itself was funded by the then King of Travancore, who also had the English start University College, modeled after University College London, in the late nineteenth century. Again, the principals of University College were mostly Englishmen, and later on, Indians. When I was there in the early and mid-60s, Clarke's bungalow was still standing at one corner of the school quad where the classrooms and halls were located. After school, I went to the above-mentioned University College for my undergraduate BSc (honours) in mathematics.

I can say that my education was a classical one in a sense, although the classics involved were both Western and Indian. But our masters strongly encouraged us to read widely outside school, and that was a real education too. Travel was also suggested as a fine way to broaden the mind, although most of us could not afford any sort of extended travel. I've told many friends that I would not change one bit of my education if I had to do it all over again.
Yes, the Summer of Love set me on a good path for time as a West coast hippie, first in SoCal and later in Oregon. I was a day student as well during high school, and the Claremont colleges, where I went to college and grad school, were on the Oxonian model, so some similarities to your journey. It was a very solid and broadening education. Later I went to law school, not fun but a heck of a lot easier than grad school in English Lit!

I am impressed you were a math major. That was my brother's path, too, all the way to a Ph. D. I always loved math conceptually but found the underlying arithmetic very tedious. I found algebra even more tedious. I would look at a quadratic equation and visualize the graph and then grit my teeth to solve it for whatever the missing variable was. Yuck.
 

drpeter

Super Member
Yes, the Summer of Love set me on a good path for time as a West coast hippie, first in SoCal and later in Oregon. I was a day student as well during high school, and the Claremont colleges, where I went to college and grad school, were on the Oxonian model, so some similarities to your journey. It was a very solid and broadening education. Later I went to law school, not fun but a heck of a lot easier than grad school in English Lit!
That is a bit surprising to me -- I would have thought that English Lit would be far more enjoyable (and even easier, in some ways) than law school. Justice is an interesting area, in terms of theory and philosophy, and one also influenced by culture. I've read people like Michael Walzer, John Rawls and Amartya Sen, who deal with broad questions -- that is quite enjoyable. But I can't imagine going through three or four years of cases and precedents!
 

TKI67

Elite Member
That is a bit surprising to me -- I would have thought that English Lit would be far more enjoyable (and even easier, in some ways) than law school. Justice is an interesting area, in terms of theory and philosophy, and one also influenced by culture. I've read people like Michael Walzer, John Rawls and Amartya Sen, who deal with broad questions -- that is quite enjoyable. But I can't imagine going through three or four years of cases and precedents!
A small grad program, five at the MA level, in lit. is all consuming. Every week for each of three classes you had to read prodigious works plus scads of reference materials. On the subject of reference materials it was so competitive you were often driving all over Southern California (UCLA, USC, LA City Library, the Huntington, etc.) to find reference materials. Imagine reading Ulysses in a week and multiply that reading load by three and then doubling or more as you pull in references and criticism. Thankfully I loved to read those things and was a fast reader. I have gone back nearly half a century later and reread many of those books, much more slowly, savoring them, and find it even better that way.

Law school had very few classes I found interesting, and I quickly learned how to know enough to do well without frying my brain. I doubled up with summer school to get through it faster. I do not think I could have handled three years of that.
 

Oldsarge

Moderator and Bon Vivant
Seriously, though, I think we are seeing the exodus of formal clothes, hastened by changes in perception, and by the lockdown last year. Whether there will be a return to those sorts of clothes remains to be seen. But if fashion goes in cycles, we might get back to suits and ties in a few years. The requirements for clothing in various types of work, and in different societies, cultures and subcultures will have a lot to do with the clothing they adopt. Some segments of society may change little: I can't see the military change types of clothing in any dramatic way in the next fifty years -- but maybe I am wrong.
If anything the reverse seems to be going on, at least in the military. The newest version of the Class A uniform is very, very similar to the one worn during WWII, even to including the beloved Eisenhower jacket.
 

drpeter

Super Member
If anything the reverse seems to be going on, at least in the military. The newest version of the Class A uniform is very, very similar to the one worn during WWII, even to including the beloved Eisenhower jacket.
I should have made myself a bit clearer. What I meant to say was that the basic structure of the military uniform hasn't changed hugely and will not. But it may revert to older styles. For example, I doubt if standard kit will include anything outlandish or extraordinary - it will be trousers, shirts, jackets, caps/berets, and shoes/boots. The nature and colours may change and may be cyclical like civilian fashions. For example the WWII style "pinks and greens" (which I love) that has been reintroduced is an instance of going back in time, the cyclical aspect of style. But it would be unlikely for uniforms to change to something dramatically different -- like capes, or breastplates, or pith helmets, to pick a few random items from the military's distant past, LOL. Or in a futuristic way, the Star Fleet uniforms one sees in Star Trek or the never-ending Star Wars series.
 

drpeter

Super Member
Yes, the Summer of Love set me on a good path for time as a West coast hippie, first in SoCal and later in Oregon. I was a day student as well during high school, and the Claremont colleges, where I went to college and grad school, were on the Oxonian model, so some similarities to your journey. It was a very solid and broadening education. Later I went to law school, not fun but a heck of a lot easier than grad school in English Lit!

I am impressed you were a math major. That was my brother's path, too, all the way to a Ph. D. I always loved math conceptually but found the underlying arithmetic very tedious. I found algebra even more tedious. I would look at a quadratic equation and visualize the graph and then grit my teeth to solve it for whatever the missing variable was. Yuck.
LOL. I studied mathematics so I could do mathematical modelling in cognitive psychology. I never had any intention of specializing in mathematics beyond the undergraduate level. On the other hand, I was led to psychology through my interest in neuroscience, and eventually I came full circle, becoming a cognitive neuroscientist.
 

TKI67

Elite Member
Do those jeans have "Skull and Crossbones" embroidered on them? Oh no! LOL. ;)
Pandering to Yale?

Nice jacket, better if worn collar down. Nice to see an OCBD rather than an OCUD, but the stripes to not work with the jacket. Inoffensive tie that does not make the most of the jacket. Sweater itself is ok but too bulky under a jacket. Nice shoes, but although I am a devotee of going sockless with loafers, it does not extend to tassel loafers. It's an LHS only thing. The tucking job looks as if he was rushed to get out of the bathroom. The jeans are just weird. All in all Ralph has depicted a preppy breaking a lot of sartorial rules for which his classmates will look down on him. However, the detailed critique aside, this just shows how much heavy lifting a good jacket can do to make the overall impression of an outfit.
 

Fading Fast

Connoisseur
Do those jeans have "Skull and Crossbones" embroidered on them? Oh no! LOL. ;)
Pandering to Yale?

Nice jacket, better if worn collar down. Nice to see an OCBD rather than an OCUD, but the stripes to not work with the jacket. Inoffensive tie that does not make the most of the jacket. Sweater itself is ok but too bulky under a jacket. Nice shoes, but although I am a devotee of going sockless with loafers, it does not extend to tassel loafers. It's an LHS only thing. The tucking job looks as if he was rushed to get out of the bathroom. The jeans are just weird. All in all Ralph has depicted a preppy breaking a lot of sartorial rules for which his classmates will look down on him. However, the detailed critique aside, this just shows how much heavy lifting a good jacket can do to make the overall impression of an outfit.
Considering where we are in the sartorial world today, I could abide everything but the (I guess) embroidered jeans - that's a bridge too far for me. Also, I love the jacket and that it doesn't look cut insanely skinny (but it does look too short). For a Ralph fashion shoot, I'll overlook the forced popped collar, and give it a solid B (with an A close at hand if he switched his jeans).
 

Tweedlover

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
Considering where we are in the sartorial world today, I could abide everything but the (I guess) embroidered jeans - that's a bridge too far for me. Also, I love the jacket and that it doesn't look cut insanely skinny (but it does look too short). For a Ralph fashion shoot, I'll overlook the forced popped collar, and give it a solid B (with an A close at hand if he switched his jeans).
I'm not sure if those jeans are embroidered. Might just be one of those ridiculous RL jeans that come "pre-stained.'" I've seen such advertised with what look like paint spatters or dirt-stains. I've got a pair of jeans I've relegated to just work pants given a small hole at the corner of a back pocket. Guess if I splashed some paint on it I'd be quite the fashion plate.
 

Oldsarge

Moderator and Bon Vivant
I have a jacket in an identical plaid which I like very much. I also have some GTH cords embroidered with beagles and shotguns and a blue striped shirt. But not, I hasten to point out, all at once.
 

TKI67

Elite Member
A sedate overall impression despite mixing plaids and another horizontally striped shirt. The breast pocket flap on the jacket is highly functional, preventing adding a PS. I love PS, but with that outfit I shudder to think what might have been selected. A black and white M.C.Escher, perhaps?
 
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