Murray's Reds

oldominion

New Member
All

Just got a couple pair of reds (long and bermuda) from the source, Murray's Toggery. I've worn reds since the late 80s and still have two pair from the 90s. My older pairs are not close to being ragged out but are showing their age. I decided it was time to re-up.

I'm as eager to support US made stuff as the next guy but have lately been trying to calm the jerk in my knee when I see something is made overseas, so when I pulled the reds out of the envelope and noted immediately that the old, richly salmon-colored and heavyish canvas (that still, on the vintage pairs, almost 20 years later, is wearing wonderfully), had been replaced by a rather light and generic feeling cotton weave that appeared pre-faded (not as heavily dyed as the old version), then noted that the newer pair was made in China (old reds made in USA), I could not help but be far less excited about my purchase as I might've been.

Wearing in the old version of Nantucket reds was comparable to breaking in a pair of leather shoes. There was some struggle. They ran like vegetable-dyed madras. Woe betide any article of clothing that shared washing machine space with a breaking in pair of reds...they got wrinkly and faded unevenly and shrank like crazy if mistakenly washed in hot...

These new ones appear tamer, more angled (perhaps) towards a broader market. I miss the older versions. Still, looking on the bright side, living in VA and MD as I do the older reds were often too heavy for midatlantic summers and these new ones will probably be more likely to be worn in July and August, when the humidity is thick.

I see we have not discussed reds in any detail since 2008, just thought I'd jumpstart a red thread as we approach the season...

That is all.

JC
 

ecox

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
I'm not familiar with Reds. Could you please provide pictures of your old ones and the new ones for comparison?
 

EastVillageTrad

Super Member
I'm not familiar with Reds. Could you please provide pictures of your old ones and the new ones for comparison?

I'm sorry but this kind of post is what is wrong with this forum. You need to do some research for yourself. Google or use the search function.

Do you seriously expect this fellow in his depressed state, which I can't fault him for, to spend his time to photograph a comparison thread? Please...
 

eagle2250

Connoisseur/Curmudgeon Emeritus - Moderator
Alas, even with the old and trusted brands that we have embraced during our never ending quest for authenticity and, perhaps, the allure of the good old days, it seems we cannot put our faith in the continued promise of "made in America." All too often, with so many of our favorite brands, made in America has evolved to "made in China!" As perhaps an extreme example of such betrayal, after thirty-one years of service in the USAF/USAFR, I retired on 30 April 1999. A couple of months ago, I was dusting a USAF Officers Saber, mounted on a walnut plaque, that was presented to me on that occasion. After eleven years of that sucker hanging on the wall in my study, I discovered a small inscription at the base of the blade (where it meets the hand-guard), "made in China. Thirty-one years of service to the good old USA and they went on the cheap and presented me with a pig-sticker that was made in China...the ultimate betrayal (LOL)! :eek:
 

Benson

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
When I was at O'Connells last month, Ethan pulled a pair of hertling-made reds from storage that were of a heavier canvas, and though I can't say how they would compare to your older reds from Murrays, I can say they felt heavier than all the other reds I've held. More to the point, though, Hertling makes an excellent pair of pants, as any number of forumites have attested, and at only slight increase in price to your Murray's. If your despondency continues, give Ethan a call.

Benson
 

WouldaShoulda

Suspended
Alas, even with the old and trusted brands that we have embraced during our never ending quest for authenticity and, perhaps, the allure of the good old days, it seems we cannot put our faith in the continued promise of "made in America." All too often, with so many of our favorite brands, made in America has evolved to "made in China!" As perhaps an extreme example of such betrayal, after thirty-one years of service in the USAF/USAFR, I retired on 30 April 1999. A couple of months ago, I was dusting a USAF Officers Saber, mounted on a walnut plaque, that was presented to me on that occasion. After eleven years of that sucker hanging on the wall in my study, I discovered a small inscription at the base of the blade (where it meets the hand-guard), "made in China. Thirty-one years of service to the good old USA and they went on the cheap and presented me with a pig-sticker that was made in China...the ultimate betrayal (LOL)! :eek:

This is worse than women in submarines!!
 

ecox

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
I'm sorry but this kind of post is what is wrong with this forum. You need to do some research for yourself. Google or use the search function.

Do you seriously expect this fellow in his depressed state, which I can't fault him for, to spend his time to photograph a comparison thread? Please...

Yup, I do. And I don't think he's in a "depressed state." He's complaining that new ones aren't as good as old ones. Let's see 'em. Then we can either agree and sympathize with him or suggest that perhaps the new ones aren't as bad as he thinks.
 

Youngster

Senior Member
Send those crappy reds back! You are the consumer, and if you are not satisfied, you should tell them. When they lose sales, then they will know that made in USA matters, and that we will not accept an inferior substitute. Return them, and they will feel you voting with your wallet.
 

EastVillageTrad

Super Member
Yup, I do. And I don't think he's in a "depressed state." He's complaining that new ones aren't as good as old ones. Let's see 'em. Then we can either agree and sympathize with him or suggest that perhaps the new ones aren't as bad as he thinks.

Since you claim to be unfamiliar with these trousers, what does it matter anyhow?

I wouldn't take your assessment of them in any regard...

For those of us who are familiar, we don't need to see photos, we can understand why he is bemoaning, & Youngster is right, send them back. . .
 

Pink and Green

Senior Member
EVT tends to be a little grumpy from time to time, but he's hit the mark here. If you don't know reds, best to go grab an OPH and read that as a start before posting. Also, although I often don't take full advantage of the search button, there is so much wonderful info there. I commend it to you heartily.

Also, as I told another person selling on the exchange, I wanted Murray's to have the original, until I realized that Land's End imitations would do just fine, as Murray's are every bit an imitation of their former self as the LE are.
 

ecox

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
EVT tends to be a little grumpy from time to time, but he's hit the mark here. If you don't know reds, best to go grab an OPH and read that as a start before posting. Also, although I often don't take full advantage of the search button, there is so much wonderful info there. I commend it to you heartily.

Also, as I told another person selling on the exchange, I wanted Murray's to have the original, until I realized that Land's End imitations would do just fine, as Murray's are every bit an imitation of their former self as the LE are.

Fair enough. Thank you for not being rude about it.
 

Solomander

New Member
The same thing happened to Patagonia duck pants. I am not as disappointed by this change, because by the time the original ducks were broken in, they were falling apart. The new ones are a bit lighter weight, but more supple and comfortable right away. This was a change that I was able to deal with.
 

Larsd4

Senior Member
Send those crappy reds back! You are the consumer, and if you are not satisfied, you should tell them. When they lose sales, then they will know that made in USA matters, and that we will not accept an inferior substitute. Return them, and they will feel you voting with your wallet.

I did exactly that a year ago. I included a letter expressing my disappointment in the Chinese made product. I had researched these a fair amount on the web and determined they were still US made. I was wrong.

Their website specified that returns were only good for store credit. I indicated that if they could not return my money or replace the reds with a USA made pair, to please donate my pair to a homeless shelter. They refunded.

This was tough to do as they fit me perfectly. Dang it!
 

FlashForFreedom

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
All

...and shrank like crazy if mistakenly washed in hot...

JC

Count the 19 year-old college version of me in this group... Still new to washing, and very excited when this purchase arrived in the mail. I don't recall if they were made in the USA, but 11-12 years ago, they were still super stiff and shrank like crazy. I have often thought of reordering, but keep putting it off. I am sad to hear of these developments.
 

mjo_1

Senior Member
Purists will contend they aren't the "originals," but at least the Nobby Shop reds are made in USA. I think I remember reading somewhere that they have an alterable waist band, but I can't confirm.




Best,

Michael
 

D&S

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
Lighten up

I can appreciate all the Buy American devotees out there but there is something incredibly distinctive about the authentic Nantucket Reds that makes me indifferent to where they were actually made. They will always be quintessentially Nantucket to me, and wearing them reminds me of the good times I've had there over the last fifteen some-odd years in a way that no pair from Lands End ever could.

Also, I see no virtue in paying a hugely inflated price for something solely on the basis of where it was made. We live in a global economy, people. Yes, it's a pleasant surprise to find that something I own was in fact made in the USA, and in a similar vein I remember feeling a tinge of disappointment when I found out that my grandmother's "German" Mercedes-Benz was made in Brazil, but country of manufacture should not be an automatic deal-breaker in my opinion.

I suppose this isn't a "Trad" perspective, but I'm fine with it.
 

heimskringla

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
Reds are one of the most quintessentially "American" clothing items, especially if you grew up in the Northeast. I'm surprised that Murrays outsourced production, given the store's clientèle. I knew they switched to "pre-faded" reds a few years ago, but I had no idea they'd outsourced manufacturing.

Yes, we live in a global economy, but I'm personally willing to pay a bit more to support American manufacturers.
 

mjo_1

Senior Member
I can appreciate all the Buy American devotees out there but there is something incredibly distinctive about the authentic Nantucket Reds that makes me indifferent to where they were actually made. They will always be quintessentially Nantucket to me, and wearing them reminds me of the good times I've had there over the last fifteen some-odd years in a way that no pair from Lands End ever could.

Also, I see no virtue in paying a hugely inflated price for something solely on the basis of where it was made. We live in a global economy, people. Yes, it's a pleasant surprise to find that something I own was in fact made in the USA, and in a similar vein I remember feeling a tinge of disappointment when I found out that my grandmother's "German" Mercedes-Benz was made in Brazil, but country of manufacture should not be an automatic deal-breaker in my opinion.

I suppose this isn't a "Trad" perspective, but I'm fine with it.


I'm not advocating for one side or the other, but thought I'd provide an option for someone who cares about a product's country of origin. I like to buy American when I can, but don't discount quality products that come from elsewhere. I think the Nobby Shop reds are actually cheaper than their imported counterparts.


Best,

Michael
 

D&S

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
I don't disagree about supporting American workers, I just don't see how where something is made should be a deal-breaker. My point was more that I would never send back a pair of well-fitting, comfortable pants that I like the look of just because they were not made in America.
 
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