Off-Row Made to Measure Savile Row suit reviews! (Photos!)

Pipps

Super Member
It may be just me, but in my humble opinion the blades by the back shoulders look like they can afford to be taken in a bit - almost as if the shoulders are a tad too wide (although the front looks perfectly clean). But otherwise great looking suits with a nice shape.
This is a brilliant observation - and something which I hadn't noticed before myself. Thank you for pointing this out!

I believe this is most likely intended as part of the overall 'balance' which JL sought to achieve. The idea being, to not make the suit too fitted to my upper chest, upper back and shoulders, lest it reveal just what a skinny dweeb I really am! :icon_smile_big:

Do you think it would hurt the balance in any way if the blades at the rear of the shoulders were taken in a little?
 

Pipps

Super Member
Pipps, they're excellent! I really am now convinced about JL and will be going there just as soon as I can! Brilliant, well done on three great suits.
I am so glad that this has been of use to you, Mr R!

I wish you all the very best with what might hopefully be your forthcoming dinner jacket! :icon_smile:
 

eHaberdasher

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
This is a brilliant observation - and something which I hadn't noticed before myself. Thank you for pointing this out!

I believe this is most likely intended as part of the overall 'balance' which JL sought to achieve. The idea being, to not make the suit too fitted to my upper chest, upper back and shoulders, lest it reveal just what a skinny dweeb I really am! :icon_smile_big:

Do you think it would hurt the balance in any way if the blades at the rear of the shoulders were taken in a little?

In my personal opinion I would prefer to see the blades taken in. I like a very clean appearance across the shoulders and blades and feel that it would NOT disrupt the balance of the silhouette but rather enhance it. Any time there is excess fabric I would prefer to see it cleaned up a bit. There is plenty of waist suppression and as remarked by most people, the suits do look wonderful. Maybe I'm just a stickler for stuff like that - perhaps the next time you visit them you can ask them what their opinion is and what implications taking in the blades might have. Regardless, the suits do like very fine and I'm sure you wear them well!

Cheers,

Ben

p.s. - I'm a hulking 39R/40R and don't even fully fill out the chest (38") - nothing wrong with being skinny in my book!
 

Matt S

Connoisseur
Very nice suits. While I'm aware that the English like a longer jacket, it looks just a little too long to me. It makes your torso look slim, but your legs look a little stubby. I notice it more from the back. Your jacket could be a little shorter and still cover your seat like it should. Also, the rise of your trousers looks too low (too fashionable) and may look out-dated once men start wearing their trousers closer to their waist again. IMO, a traditional rise would better balance your body.
 

Pipps

Super Member
Very nice suits. While I'm aware that the English like a longer jacket, it looks just a little too long to me. It makes your torso look slim, but your legs look a little stubby. I notice it more from the back. Your jacket could be a little shorter and still cover your seat like it should. Also, the rise of your trousers looks too low (too fashionable) and may look out-dated once men start wearing their trousers closer to their waist again. IMO, a traditional rise would better balance your body.
Thank you for your thoughts. I agree with you on the jacket length. It could be just a touch shorter and work out even better in my opinion. :icon_smile:

Also, I think rise-height is an important factor in any suit, and I can reveal that the rise in the trousers for suits 2 and 3 is over an inch shorter than the rise of the trouser in suit 1. I definitely wasn't going for the fashionable look in that respect! ;)

I really hope that I don't start wearing my trousers any higher up my torso. My waist is almost at my rib-cage as it is! :eek:
 

stcolumba

Elite Member
Beautiful suits and shirt! Thank you for sharing the pictures. Seeing you in them wearing a tie creates a complete vision of what these suits are meant to do. I like the pockets--they create a slimming effect. Something we do not see (much) in the U.S. are side vents cut to a proper length. Too often, I see side vents that are too short. The cut in your suits allow them to drape gracefully in the back. You have exquisite taste.
 

Khnelben

Senior Member
Very well made

suit - I really like it.

Maybe the trousers can be sut a bit shorter - but that's my personal preference.

On the waist - i think the bum can be made a bit slimmer - I am sure you have the capacity in your physique - it's just that many English suits are a bit "big bottomed" ))

On the tie - it's a bit thick in the know - maybe something slightly slimmer - OR maybe you can even take this tie and do a smaller knot.

On the shirt - I am not altogether imprssed with the collar style - but it actually looks very Jermyn St.

All in all - great outfit - just do a smaller tie knot.

Andrey
 

Fuzzypuppy

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
Very nice indeed.

Your post states MTM, rather than bespoke. Might I ask about how it was priced relative to Row bespoke? How many fittings did they have you do?

I'd be tempted to give them a try the next time I fly through the UK, but with travel unpredictable, subsequent fittings are always an issue for me with non-traveling tailors.
 

Bonhamesque

Senior Member
Thank you, gentlemen. :icon_smile:

The third suit is supposed to be of exactly the same bodily dimensions as the second suit. However, for those of you who are familiar with Wensum's manufacturing techniques, their methods are hardly a science, and my opinion, vary significantly in sizes and quality for no apparent reason.

I suppose I am just lucky that the third suit turned out to fall especially well. :eek:

The variance could be cause by Wensum but it could also be caused by your tailor tweaking the suit slightly to try and improve the fit each time.
This is common in perfectionists. You can always ask for them to be adjusted so that they're more uniform I suppose.

I believe this is most likely intended as part of the overall 'balance' which JL sought to achieve. The idea being, to not make the suit too fitted to my upper chest, upper back and shoulders, lest it reveal just what a skinny dweeb I really am! :icon_smile_big:

Do you think it would hurt the balance in any way if the blades at the rear of the shoulders were taken in a little?

I wouldn't do that personally.
Judging by the photos, and by your own admission you are on the skinny side so I imagine that the shoulders of these suits are a little wider than your actual shoulders in order to give you some upper body width.
The down side to that is that there'll be a little extra drape across the shoulder blades.
Taking the drape away would make the back of the shouders narrower than the front so if it were me I'd leave it alone.

Very nice indeed.

Your post states MTM, rather than bespoke. Might I ask about how it was priced relative to Row bespoke? How many fittings did they have you do?

Normally, MTM includes one or two fittings, depending on the customer's shape.
Price wise, the average off-row MTM is about £600 - £800 and the average on row bespoke is about £2500 - £3000.
On row MTM is usually about 15 - 20% more than off-row.

Nice suits by the way Mr Pipps.
Your slim figure has been flattered quite well I think. Nice cut and plenty of shape, that's what we like to see. :icon_smile_wink:
 

Pipps

Super Member
Very nice indeed.

Your post states MTM, rather than bespoke. Might I ask about how it was priced relative to Row bespoke? How many fittings did they have you do?

I'd be tempted to give them a try the next time I fly through the UK, but with travel unpredictable, subsequent fittings are always an issue for me with non-traveling tailors.
Fuzzypuppy, Mr Littman is indeed a traveling tailor. Though I'm not sure that he is making trips overseas at this present time. Though if you were in the UK within suitable time-frames, he would surely try to travel to you rather than expect you to journey to Savile Row. It all depends on your own movements to the UK, I suppose.

With respect to the price difference between MTM and bespoke - I hope I would be not be inaccurate in saying that a MTM suit is something like a third of the price of a bespoke suit made in the same fabric. As Bonhamesque says, £800 vs £2,500. Which in my opinion is sizable difference. A significant proportion of which is consumed by the time costs of the extra fittings and hand-work.

However, that said, I understand that Mr Littman is currently working on something which is an even greater step towards a bespoke-quality MTM garment. And I think I may be able to provide some new photographs on this precise topic sometime in the not too distant future!
 

Cavaliere

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
Gentlemen: am I missing something here? The post clearly refers to "off-Row" suits. The only referenced location which could conceivably be characterized as "off-Row" is Sackville Street; Sackville Street, being around the corner from the Row and having once housed a number of legendary tailors who belong unquestionably to the Savile Row story, is not, strictly speaking, off-Row. The term "off-Row" was once used to describe the, shall we say, lesser tailors who occupied premises beyond the Regent Street divide (i.e., Soho).

The "divide" between Row and off-Row tailors became blurred when the likes of the great (IMO) Douglas Heyward took up residence in the more distant reaches of Mayfair.

I have also known the term to be applied to City (of London) tailors, whose cut was quite different from that of the Row tailors.
 

Pipps

Super Member
Thank you for the very useful background detail on this subject.

May I ask - what term would you consider more appropriate to describe a suit, or style of tailoring, which is a classic Savile Row cut in substance, but which was not manufactured by hand on Savile Row, and by a tailor who's company has its heritage rooted firmly in Savile Row?
 

deanayer

Super Member
The shirt is a knockout, The fit on it is very good in the shoulders and waist. I think it would look a bit better with point collars or a spread that was a bit less spread out. I think the tie has been covered here already, its just out of proportion.

I thought suits 1 and 2 had a near identical cut and they are very conformal in the waist. Overall very nice indeed, I think I like suit #1 the best but I have to agree with whoever thought another 1/4 inch of sleeve length would be good but sometimes its hard to tell in static pictures just how good or bad something really is.

I would call it a win for sure and I would go on and order that same shirt in a narrower spread or a point collar and try it with a thinner tie. maybe even a smaller knot and see what you get for proportions.
 

Bonhamesque

Senior Member
Gentlemen: am I missing something here? The post clearly refers to "off-Row" suits. The only referenced location which could conceivably be characterized as "off-Row" is Sackville Street; Sackville Street, being around the corner from the Row and having once housed a number of legendary tailors who belong unquestionably to the Savile Row story, is not, strictly speaking, off-Row. The term "off-Row" was once used to describe the, shall we say, lesser tailors who occupied premises beyond the Regent Street divide (i.e., Soho).

The "divide" between Row and off-Row tailors became blurred when the likes of the great (IMO) Douglas Heyward took up residence in the more distant reaches of Mayfair.

I have also known the term to be applied to City (of London) tailors, whose cut was quite different from that of the Row tailors.
I think your understanding off the term 'Off-Row' differs from most other people's.
The current meaning of the term as I understand it is 'any Savile Row quality tailor that isn't actually situated on the Row itself'.

Everyone knows that the rent on Savile Row is ridiculously high so it's hardly surprising that many of the smaller independent tailors have moved away from there and into the surrounding areas of Soho and Mayfair.
That doesn't stop them from being Savile Row tailors as they continue to cut suits in the SR silhouette and make suits to the same high standards you would expect from the Row.

Personally I would even include people like Edward Sexton who is a Savile Row tailor in every sense but is actually situated in Knightsbridge now.
It includes quite a broad spectrum of tailors that at some point were situated or trained on the Row.
For example there's Anderson & Sheppard who just moved round the corner, ditto Fallen & Harvey.
Then there's people like Sexton who's in SW3 and Heyward who's in Soho.
Plus all the visiting tailors like Mahon, Westmancott and Jasper Littman mentioned in this thread.
 
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ToryBoy

Elite Member
Gentlemen: am I missing something here? The post clearly refers to "off-Row" suits. The only referenced location which could conceivably be characterized as "off-Row" is Sackville Street; Sackville Street

I agree that Sackvile Street is 'off-Row'; however, Anderson & Sheppard are 'off-Row' in Old Burlington Gardens - this is based on the SRBA definition.

However, I would also include Anthony J Hewitt as 'off-Row', which the SRBA does not.
 

ToryBoy

Elite Member
Personally I would even include people like Edward Sexton who is a Savile Row tailor in every sense but is actually situated in Knightsbridge now.

1.75 miles away!

Sexton is a living Savile Row legend and will make Savile Row quality clothing using the same method as on Savile Row; however, can not be called a Savile Row tailor while on Beauchamp Place.
 
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