shrum

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
There has been some discussion about whether the Polo Reddings are made by C&J. The short answer is that I think they are, but they are also an entirely different boot.

I originally ordered the C&J in a 7E, which is supposed to correspond to a US 7.5D. (However, see posts by Sator indicating that one really needs to go a full size down from US to English--I agree, more on that later).

The shoes were way to big, so I sent them back. Before ordering the C&J 6.5E, I saw the Polo sale on the Reddings. Thinking they were C&Js, I ordered the Polo 7D, thinking I would be getting the C&J 6.5E (and for only $315 vs. 495 at Turnbull & Asser, which was before I learned about plal.com).

Unfortunately, the Redding is too small, at least by a tad. It is *quite* narrow. In fact, what I think I got was an English 7D, because the shoe is very long and very narrow. Someone recently posted a similar suspicion, but I'm not sure which shoe. I am trying to have it stretched to see if that will work. In addition, as someone else noted (Notik I think), both of the innersoles (halfs) have pulled up and will have to be re-glued.

Finally, I re-ordered the C&J in a 6.5E because now I'm *very* curious, and I wanted to have both boots available to compare. Incredibly, the C&J 6.5E is still slightly too big! Moreover, there are quite a few important (and some not so important) details that are different on the boots.

For those of you who are interested and have made it this far, I thought I would post pics of the the comparisons. I have posted under each pic the things to make note of:



In this pic, note that the heighth of the boots are different (Polo taller) and the top of the leather is even with the elastic in the Polo but not the C & J.




Here is the critical (and weird) difference in my opinion. Note that on the top pic (Redding) the stitching to attach the pieces occurs straight down from the seam attaching leather to elastic, whereas in the bottom pic (C&J), it is in the traditional middle of the elastic. This is not trivial, because given that the Reddings are slightly tight, the seem on the Redding is *very* noticeable and uncomfortable. It is unclear whether stretching will help this.




Finally, these last two pics show the front profile and the shape of the soles. For the front profile, I don't know if it is noticeable, but the leathers are quite different. I can't say which is better, as I'm not an expert, but the patina (shine) on the C&J's is much brighter. Also, I don't know if you can tell from the pictures, but the 7D Redding is almost an inch longer than the 6.5 C&J. It is also much narrower. For these reasons, I think I may have a 7D in an English size.

I'm considering trying the 6E and ordering from Plal.com. Any thoughts on that? I'm reluctant, as the length of the 6.5 is very good. I have a very short foot (measures US 6.5) but a longer arch or rest of my foot (measures US 7.5--I guess I have short toes).

Finally (really), the last difference is the markings on the inside. The Redding has the same handwritten stock numbers and size that I noticed on the C&J's I saw recently in Paris. Oddly, the new 6.5 C&J has a stamped (typewritten) set of numbers. Go figure.

Any thoughts on the differences would be appreciated. Is it the case that C&J may have made a custom boot for Polo (or is that what they always do?).
 

english_gent

Senior Member
another fan of chelsea boots , i think they look smashing with a suit , recently bought a pair of grenson chelseas myself to wear with my 60s inspired 'mod suit'.
 

minimal

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
I know the Reddings have 338 as the "last" portion of their model #, though that does not correspond to a known C&J last. Which C&J chelseas do you have? There are at *least* three different lasts for C&J chelseas, so please tell us which last you have too!
 

pkincy

Super Member
Thank you very much for this direct comparison.

I have the Benton, the Tellman and the Alton in Polo by C&J. I have the Weymouth sourced through P.Lal from the UK. The Polo shoes are all 9D. The Weymouth is 8.5E. The 8.5E is very roomy on my foot. The 9Ds are very tight. Much narrower with less volume under the vamp. That could be do to the narrowness but I am not entirely certain. I definitely have come to believe that the Polo is on a last that is a UK width D not E. I have come to believe that is true on the Polo sourced EGs also. i.e, they may convert the UK size to US by adding 1/2 but the width is what it shows in the shoe and that is a UK width which is narrower than the letter would indicate in a US sized shoe.

I am also fairly certain that the Polo sourced lasts for the EGs are equivalent to the UK sourced lasts. That is not true however for the Polo/C&J shoes. The lasts are much different on the Polo sourced C&Js from the 337 Handgrade last.

As you have found on your Reddings, the Polo lasts are longer and narrower than the 337. I was in BH this week and wanted to try on the Reddings but the Rodeo drive store did not have the Redding in my size. They did have a calf boot by C&J but it also was not available in my size. So I am going to pass on the shoe on Polo.com.

I did pick up a pair of RLPL Edens in brown suede at a fairly deep discount however.

Thank you for this thread. I know it will help those of us that order by mail to tie this down a bit.

Perry
 

indylion

Senior Member
Eden's price?

"I did pick up a pair of RLPL Edens in brown suede at a fairly deep discount however. "



I was Polo(Chicago Mich ave) today and the Eden was $569. Did you get a better price?
 

DocHolliday

Honors Member
Thanks for the post, shrum. I love to see "long, with pics" in subject headers.

As for the boots, I find myself firmly in the C&J camp. I hadn't realized how prominent the seams are on the Reddings until your post. I had hoped to pick up the Polo boots at some point, but now find myself leaning toward another pair of RM Williams.
 

pkincy

Super Member
indylion;470374 I was Polo(Chicago Mich ave) today and the Eden was $569. Did you get a better price?[/quote said:
Yes, $569 is correct.

But given that we will pay near $700 for shoes, trees and shipping next week in the EG sale, I consider the $569 a good discount.

Perry
 

minimal

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
[snip...]

I am also fairly certain that the Polo sourced lasts for the EGs are equivalent to the UK sourced lasts. That is not true however for the Polo/C&J shoes. The lasts are much different on the Polo sourced C&Js from the 337 Handgrade last.
This is not true for the PRL sourced C&J's that are *on* the 337 last: the Holland boot and a few other styles. (The other day in the Polo mansion NYC I saw a *very* nice chukka on the 337 last, too bad not in my size).

One more size note for the large-footed: PRL only carries the C&J 337 models in 12 and 13, no 12.5. I see by direct comparison that the PRL size 13 is the same as the C&J size 11.5. In other words, instead of PRL sizes 11.5, 12, 13 being C&J sizes 10.5, 11, 12, they are in fact 10.5, 11, 11.5. To restate, for PRL size 13 it's actually +1.5 from it's corresponding C&J size, instead of +1 like the others.

I know this because my weymouth 11.5E (UK) are the same as my PRL Holland 13D, both made on the 337 last. I have no idea if it applies to other lasts or to the EG.

BTW, as I said I was in the Polo mansion (NYC) the other day: their collection of shoes is amazing. Almost every style is quite attractive, whoever their shoe person is really has great taste.
 

shrum

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
I know the Reddings have 338 as the "last" portion of their model #, though that does not correspond to a known C&J last. Which C&J chelseas do you have? There are at *least* three different lasts for C&J chelseas, so please tell us which last you have too!
As far as I can tell, there is no way to tell from the information on the boot as to which last is used (unless it is buried in the various numbers). I'm assuming that the C&J's are the 238 last, as they come directly from C&J London. The Paris chelseas were on the 337 last (oddly, they *did* have the last listed inside). I have no idea from which last the Reddings were made.
 

shrum

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
Thanks for the post, shrum. I love to see "long, with pics" in subject headers.

As for the boots, I find myself firmly in the C&J camp. I hadn't realized how prominent the seams are on the Reddings until your post. I had hoped to pick up the Polo boots at some point, but now find myself leaning toward another pair of RM Williams.
Now that I've learned to use a digital camera and post pics, AAAC should watch out :)

I'm starting to come around on the RM Williams issue, particularly the idea of the whole leather/no seam issue. However, where do you get your RMW's? If directly from the website, they appear to actually be more expensive than C&J's through plal.com.

Also, which model do you order? I read Sators extensive post on RMW's and he indicated that a more elongated (and thus elegant) last might work well with the veal calf leather, as well as dropping .5 size and 2 widths. However, from the RMW website, this does not seem to be an option.
 

grimslade

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
Thanks for the comparison, Shrum. It should clear up a lot of questions, especially about whether the Redding corresponds directly to any of the current C&J chelseas.

I have the Reddings and the Hollands, but no C&J boots. I have not noticed any discomfort from the seam at the instep on the Reddings, but of course everyone is different... The Hollands have a seam even farther forward, and while I wouldn't call it uncomfortable, it is definitely noticeable.

The width issue is quite interesting to me. I normally wear wide widths, so I've been surprised at how the Reddings and Hollands both manage to be snug without being uncomfortable. But no two feet are alike, right? On my RMWs, by contrast, I've had to order them so large to give my toes room that they end up loose around the instep--and still my left "ring toe" binds a bit. I'm still trying to figure out whether there's a combination of size and width that will fit the way the Polo boots do, but I fear I'm wearing out the patience of the Aussies in the RMW store in New York with my experimentation.
 
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