Fading Fast

Connoisseur
The below pic is from a J.Crew email I received today.

While J.Crew has, for many years now, carried all the items in the pic, normally, its ads take a more-modern slant on the classic looks. To be sure, we can criticize this or that (the missing collar roll of the OCBD, for example), but it is still nice to see an ad for an outfit that could have been run in the 1960s (see Paul Newman pic from the '60s below; his collar, also, doesn't have much of a roll).

It got me to thinking (little puffs of smoke are coming out of my ears right now) that, maybe (hopefully), there are still enough modern Trad-clothing ads (I expect Ralph will make more than one appearance) for a thread.

J.Crew today
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And Paul Newman circa 1960s
091be54e8d61cb9b5ffdb2783f52ab1d--the-s-golden-age.jpg
 

MikeF

New Member
Not all ocbd collars were long and had the perfect roll even back then. I remember that I got a couple of shirts handed down from my father that had short points and no roll and I'm sure that these were at the latest 70s era shirts. I actually don't mind short collars on casual shirts. I have several Gap and Crew shirts that I wear often. Never with a tie of course.
 
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Fading Fast

Connoisseur
Not all ocbd collars were long and had the perfect roll even back then. I remember that I got a couple of shirts handed down from my father that had short points and no roll and I'm sure that these were at the latest 70's era shirts. I actually don't mind short collars on casual shirts. I have several Gap and Crew shirts that I wear often. Never with a tie of course.
I own some of the J.Crew OCBDs with short collars. As a casual shirt they are fine. A few years back, J.Crew came out with a "lightweight" OCBD that, of course, saved the company money, but I do like them in warmer weather or for layering. That said, I find, most of the time, I grab for the BB with the longer collar with picking a shirt out of the closet.
 

Mr. B. Scott Robinson

Advanced Member
I have been finding a lot of high quality madras while thrifting lately. BB, Polo, all in as new condition, made in India, at $5.99 per shirt.

A perfect shirt for spring and summer. I think the Preppy Handbook created a revival in the early 80s. I wore them over a polo shirt while in high school and I am sporting them again, sans polo!

Cheers,

BSR
 

Mike B

New Member
Speaking of the J Crew lightweight oxford...I bought one in May 2016 and really liked the material, it was light enough for the summer and still oxford cloth...

219.JPG


..and I found the 'trad' details amusing.

Flap Pocket

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Locker loop and collar button on the back

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The collar points are too short for my liking. I wear it unbuttoned and let the collar splay out a bit.
 

Fading Fast

Connoisseur
Speaking of the J Crew lightweight oxford...I bought one in May 2016 and really liked the material, it was light enough for the summer and still oxford cloth...

View attachment 45937

..and I found the 'trad' details amusing.

Flap Pocket

View attachment 45938

Locker loop and collar button on the back

View attachment 45939

The collar points are too short for my liking. I wear it unbuttoned and let the collar splay out a bit.
That's the exact shirt I was referencing. I have four or five of them because of the lightweight material (and, as you noted, several trad details, but sadly, a too-short collar). Mine have held up surprisingly well as I've had them for several years and they have aged nicely with no holes or fraying.
 

Flanderian

Connoisseur
In the first pic, lower "middle," I think that is the "reversible" raincoat/topcoat we talked about over in the Ralph Thread here #423

A very neat Ivy item.
I suspect it is.

Reversible rain/tweed coats are something I believe originated among English makers, at least by the '20's or '30's, as they're definitely represented in the Golden Age Esky/AA archives. I know that in addition to Brooks, they could also once be found at Paul Stuart, and I think also F R Tripler from English makers.

I've never had one, but have had reversible jackets and coats, and frankly, aside from their good looks, have found their expanded usefulness more theoretical than actual. I always found I preferred wearing one side to the exclusion of the other.
 

Fading Fast

Connoisseur
I suspect it is.

Reversible rain/tweed coats are something I believe originated among English makers, at least by the '20's or '30's, as they're definitely represented in the Golden Age Esky/AA archives. I know that in addition to Brooks, they could also once be found at Paul Stuart, and I think also F R Tripler from English makers.

I've never had one, but have had reversible jackets and coats, and frankly, aside from their good looks, have found their expanded usefulness more theoretical than actual. I always found I preferred wearing one side to the exclusion of the other.
J.Press also carried them (and might still). I owned one, I'm guessing, thirty years ago and remember liking it, but it was cut way too big for me (even in my size) and, owing to it being reversible, it couldn't be altered much at all. That "oversize-ness" is what caused me to give it away. I did like having it on biz trips for obvious reasons, but again, it was just too big.

I have a Ralph reversible casual outwear jacket - tweed one side / rain jacket on the other. As you note, I only wear it with the Tweed side out, but on that side, the tan rain coat flashing out here and there looks nice. The real reason I don't wear it for rain is that, if it's raining, I just take a rain jacket.
 

Flanderian

Connoisseur
J.Press also carried them (and might still). I owned one, I'm guessing, thirty years ago and remember liking it, but it was cut way too big for me (even in my size) and, owing to it being reversible, it couldn't be altered much at all. That "oversize-ness" is what caused me to give it away. I did like having it on biz trips for obvious reasons, but again, it was just too big.

I have a Ralph reversible casual outwear jacket - tweed one side / rain jacket on the other. As you note, I only wear it with the Tweed side out, but on that side, the tan rain coat flashing out here and there looks nice. The real reason I don't wear it for rain is that, if it's raining, I just take a rain jacket.
Reminds me of a jacket I had 35+ years ago. A very nice English made blouson jacket that was heavier medium grey flannel on one side, with a matching detachable collar, and heavy weight khaki cotton drill on the other. I only wore the cotton side out for the same reason. I had wondered if it had any water resistant properties, and learned it didn't in an entertaining way: I was crossing on the Ferry from Orient Point to New London, and while sitting on the observation deck forward of the cabin, a rogue wave in Plum Gut from a departed storm broke over the bow and came crashing down.

Nope, no water resistance at all! :D
 

Fading Fast

Connoisseur
Reminds me of a jacket I had 35+ years ago. A very nice English made blouson jacket that was heavier medium grey flannel on one side, with a matching detachable collar, and heavy weight khaki cotton drill on the other. I only wore the cotton side out for the same reason. I had wondered if it had any water resistant properties, and learned it didn't in an entertaining way: I was crossing on the Ferry from Orient Point to New London, and while sitting on the observation deck forward of the cabin, a rogue wave in Plum Gut from a departed storm broke over the bow and came crashing down.

Nope, no water resistance at all! :D
That's awesome.

My very distant and shaky memory of the reversible overcoat was that it was fine in a normal rain, but not so great in a heavy downpour. As with anything serving too many masters, it's all compromise. But for a three or four day biz trip, when it was cold with a chance of some rain (not monsoons), it was a good solution.

Also, on those days when it has a small chance of rain, but you really want an overcoat for the cold, it was good too.

If I could find a new and nice one cut for my frame, I'd even consider buying one again (although, I have no idea why as I have all but no use for it in my WFH world).

I also have no idea if my Ralph reversible jacket could handle any real rain, but don't really care as I bought it for the look and function of the Tweed side. My guess, it would do okay in a sprinkle, but not much more.
 

Fading Fast

Connoisseur
Based on your post, I just went to J.Crew's website looking for their madras offering and nary a one to be found. Odd that they should run out that quickly.
Agreed. All I can guess is that since they've been blasting me daily with sale emails since June, they've probably sold out a lot of summer stuff by now.
 

richard warren

Senior Member
So, cultural stagnation is a good thing?

Actually, the effects of living in a heavily recorded, electronically mediated culture, which has had the effect of stifling innovation, extends far beyond clothing. The are still young men trying to attract young women by playing the guitar of all things. Still beatniks, hippies, and preppies. There are even people still doing abstract painting. We are still fighting land wars in Asia. The one area of innovation in the last 50 years, what might be called technology in general and more specifically computing has served only to ossify, de-authenticate, and imprison everything else.

Almost all phenomena are now what Baudrillard called simulacra, imitations of things which no longer exist, except pace Baudrillard they don’t seem to be preceding any new reality.

Sure clothing back on the day was better. Because clothing now is a pale imitation of it. What’s missing is the clothing which would have existed if the world had not been on cultural lockdown since the 1970’s.
 
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