Question for Harris, Dart, Coolidge, Max et. al.

Intrepid

Super Member
Joe, you do bring up some very good threads, and yes, we do tend to overthink them and often end up in the third ring of Saturn.

However, this one certainly deserves at least a 2 cents worth.

There really doesn't always seem to be a connect between money and trad, except for Allen's point, and private education and trad.

First point, is that Nantucket used to be the San Headron of Trad. No longer.
30 years ago, it was very trad. Life styles very simple, some had money, some didn't,
but overall a very trad east coast community.

10 years ago, the Masters of the Universe arrived. All had money by defitintion, and most went to "good schools". They have almost destroyed the place. The only remenants of trad left are apparent at the "Wharf Rat Club" which is made up entirely of old trads.

Next is the disconnect between people, at least in this community, with a bunch of old money, and what is referred to as "Trad " here. Many are incredibly wealthy, don't know Alden from Ecco, wear ties with 4 year old gravy stains, and dress in what could be called neohomeless.

About a year ago, I suggested the clothier, Nick Hilton, as a speaker at our Wed Speaker luncheons. The speakers committee, who all went to "the right east coast schools", looked at me quizically and opioned that there couldn't possible be any one interested in what he might have to offer.I might have just as well suggested Howard Stern, based on the response that I got.

Good thread, Joe. And the beat goes on...............

Carpe Diem
 

Literide

Super Member
quote:Originally posted by jmorgan32

Oh hell, question for the whole board!

This whole "definition" of trad, and class distinctions is something I have not really given a lot of thought to and have not really involved myself in.

However, now that I think about it, I want your opinion on my thoughts...........

True blue trads, if you will, were brought up "dressing tradly", acting tradly, etc. Never moving with fashion trends. Right??!! OK.
I also get the impression that most of the "true trads" as defined on this forum, attended rather elite schools, had fathers that wore Aldens, J Press or Brooks suits, etc.
Prep schools as youngsters, and either Ivy League or small Liberal Arts schools for college.

Well, I am not a true trad then. My Dad was a Colonel in the USAF and we had 4 kids in our family. I could not attend a prep school. I did go to a private school for some years, but my Mom taught there so I was "discounted!" I attended a state college. (only. seeming rather lowly-I say kiddingly......Of course we Buckeyes always say our undergrad in Business is equal to an MBA anywhere else!)

I did, however, see my Dad only wearing OCBD's, tan bucks, Florsheims, etc as a kid. (not Alden, et al. probably too expensive or he just didn't care enough to shop around a lot) He shopped at discount houses, wore London Fog raincoats, but to me, looking back this was fairly trad. He worked in a very trad men's store during the summers in college and adopted his tastes and stuck with them. (the 50's)
I don't think he really gave a damn about clothes, and just kept it simple for himself.

I guess I am almost tempted to call our definition of trad, as it has "evolved" through our board discussions, as almost "old money!" Maybe true. I am not sure........I would debate that for the minority of "cases" where you have a trad old college professor. You know the type......Smokes a pipe, blazer with elbow patches, cords, desert boots, etc......you get the pic.. I think they could be truly trad without having the "money" to be "super tradly" and send their kids to prep schools etc.

I quite simply made a decision as a soph or jr in college is was much more economical to go with what we are calling trad on this board and I REFUSED to change. Ever...circa 1978 forward.....Yes in high school there were some bell bottoms (oh crap I admitted it...) and lots of........well........smoking organic things of nature..........OK Harris, don't clench your molars at the bell bottom comment.....I was a damned hood okay!!

I CAN HANDLE THE TRUTH! (aka Mr. Nicholson) I am not tradly! (voice sounding like "I am not worthy!!!!!!!!!")

OK. Feedback welcome as always.

Money doesnt always = class, and vice versa. Many of our British friends know this only too well.
 

jmorgan32

Suspended
Great posts! Thanks a bunch to everyone. I hope you all realize that a great portion of my post was an attempt at humor. eg-the single tear rolling down my cheek, etc. I was KIDDING a lot.

I was curious about "backgrounds" etc., and honestly did learn quite a bit.

Needless to say, I have removed my Brooks suits and Aldens from the trash can, and have cancelled my trip to Men's Warehouse to get the double-breasted, peak lapeled, brown, uncuffed suit. Oh, and screw the trip to Payless Shoes for some really pointy tan lace-ups too.

I am tradly damnit!:)
ps....Dartmouth-in your post you forgot to mention you wear Stan Smiths too.[8D]
 

jmorgan32

Suspended
quote:Originally posted by DartmouthMan88

As promised here is my background. I grew up in the south and was influenced heavily by my Grandfather. He was a blue collar man through and through. He toiled for years at a power plant and eventually became the plant manager. He stood for all the things that I believe in now, hard work, strong Baptist faith, his family came first, conservative politics and he knew the value of a dollar. To say he had a penchant for the finer things would be incorrect. He did have a penchant for gettting the most out of his money, so his clothes came from Brooks, Perlis and the like. His choice of shoe was Florsheim, when they were made well (I still have a pair of his loafers that look great). He dressed trad. He was, is and always will be my idol. He always instilled in me to never,ever judge a book by its cover and that philosophy has served me well in my personal and my professional life.
My Dad is different from my Grandfather, he attended Notre Dame and became a very successful businessman and investor. He retired at 38. His clothing style and tastes were simple, loafers, white ocbd and khakis...never anything else. He is a quiet and almost stand offish man. Very intelligent and very confident. My Dad and I did not have a healthy relationship until my Grandfather passed on.
I attended public schools from K-12 and attended a state school for 2 years on a baseball scholarship before I joined the Army. After my stint in the military, I needed the maturity, I went back to school and finished up my degree. My time in public schools and the military were an invaluable experience for me. I learned to deal with all types of society, from the extremely wealthy to the very poor. I have friends from both socio-economic backgrounds and I respect them and cherish their friendships and respect their differences.
To say how someone dresses is an indicator of their financial status or a reflection of that status is just not true. I know many wealthy people and they are crass, vulgar and have generally poor taste (read ostentatious). They have money and they want you to know it. I also have some wealthy friends that are as down to earth as one could be.
I am what I would consider third generation trad. My family is not old money, we are comfortable people. I have a good profession and earn a good living, I do not put on any aires. What you see with me is what you get, if you do not like it..that is okay with me. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and I think that is great. I am very conservative in my political views, my religion and my family is at the forefront of my life. I choose to dress the way I do because it is what I like and am comfortable in plus it is what I have known since my childhood.
I know this strayed a little bit from Joe's question, so in summary do I think to fit the criteria for trad one must be "old money", attend boarding schools or the like? Not on your life. I do think that maybe the region one grows up in has an influence, in the south things are just comfortable, you know everyone and would do whatever for whoever and expect nothing in return. I have spent a good deal of time in the northern states and the attitudes are totally different, not bad, just different. I will end my rant now.

State school baseball scholarship? You were obciously a damned good ball player. What position?
Joe
 

Coolidge24

Super Member
quote:Originally posted by tom22

I was born and grew up near New Haven which obviously is a fairly trad place. I spent a year in prep school, hated it, yelled at my parents and graduated from public school. Did go to an elite eastern college, which was and is not noted for preppiness (had to go to the other little Ivy League schools for that). I did get a certain style, with certain variations, from my father, who shopped at Rosenberg's of New haven. It shocked the hell out of me to read the original George Frazier Esquire article a couple of months ago which announced Rosenberg's of New Haven as an essential founder of the sack suit.
I grew up with some florsheim shoes and a few arrow shirts. and a London Fog raincoat (a good lable then) Most shirts were from Hathaway and shoes from the age of fourteen were from Barries but these were just what was offered at the neighborhood stores. i think until the advent of designer labels (which I associate with the mid 1980s) there was a broad consensus about how you were supposed to dress. Navy blazers, tweed jackets. two or three button suits in grey or navy or glen plaud. The rules were faily basic. labels didn't mean all that much. there were so many good American manufacturers of RTW i really didn't matter too too much what you bought. fabrics would vary with the season, styles never did.
a simpler, and maybe a better age. Everyone was pretty much trad. you could spend more or less money but everyone was trad.


Astounding coincidences. In the surface details, you really are a lot like me, just more liberal politically and from a generation earlier. NESCAC college, the law school, Connecticut, picking public over prep school, some association with New Haven...


Sweetness: Amen to that...the more trads, whether genetically or newly minted, the more customers at J. Press and the like. And the greater the liklihood that Trad itself becomes a somewhat more accepted style and doesn't meet with the kind of contempt it is met with on the main fora/Styleforum, perhaps to the extent where the more stolid areas (ie navy sack suits not madras jackets) of trad are disassociated somewhat from general WASPiness.
 

Intrepid

Super Member
Coolidge, to illustrate your point about the beauty of two forums, there is a guy on the Fashion Forum looking for a Southwick suit made of synthetic fiber. Seems that he is a vegan and opposes things made of wool.

He wears shoes made up of pressed fiber with Vibram soles.

Fine with me, but no wonder we are often looked at as a bit different.

The Princeton faculty Vegan is Dr. Peter Singer. He was recently quoted in the NY Times as saying that beastiality was fine if it was OK with the animal.No really..........

Carpe Diem
 

A.Squire

Honors Member
quote:Originally posted by DartmouthMan88

As promised here is my background. I grew up in the south and was influenced heavily by my Grandfather. He was a blue collar man through and through. He toiled for years at a power plant and eventually became the plant manager. He stood for all the things that I believe in now, hard work, strong Baptist faith, his family came first, conservative politics and he knew the value of a dollar. To say he had a penchant for the finer things would be incorrect. He did have a penchant for gettting the most out of his money, so his clothes came from Brooks, Perlis and the like. His choice of shoe was Florsheim, when they were made well (I still have a pair of his loafers that look great). He dressed trad. He was, is and always will be my idol. He always instilled in me to never,ever judge a book by its cover and that philosophy has served me well in my personal and my professional life.
My Dad is different from my Grandfather, he attended Notre Dame and became a very successful businessman and investor. He retired at 38. His clothing style and tastes were simple, loafers, white ocbd and khakis...never anything else. He is a quiet and almost stand offish man. Very intelligent and very confident. My Dad and I did not have a healthy relationship until my Grandfather passed on.
I attended public schools from K-12 and attended a state school for 2 years on a baseball scholarship before I joined the Army. After my stint in the military, I needed the maturity, I went back to school and finished up my degree. My time in public schools and the military were an invaluable experience for me. I learned to deal with all types of society, from the extremely wealthy to the very poor. I have friends from both socio-economic backgrounds and I respect them and cherish their friendships and respect their differences.
To say how someone dresses is an indicator of their financial status or a reflection of that status is just not true. I know many wealthy people and they are crass, vulgar and have generally poor taste (read ostentatious). They have money and they want you to know it. I also have some wealthy friends that are as down to earth as one could be.
I am what I would consider third generation trad. My family is not old money, we are comfortable people. I have a good profession and earn a good living, I do not put on any aires. What you see with me is what you get, if you do not like it..that is okay with me. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and I think that is great. I am very conservative in my political views, my religion and my family is at the forefront of my life. I choose to dress the way I do because it is what I like and am comfortable in plus it is what I have known since my childhood.
I know this strayed a little bit from Joe's question, so in summary do I think to fit the criteria for trad one must be "old money", attend boarding schools or the like? Not on your life. I do think that maybe the region one grows up in has an influence, in the south things are just comfortable, you know everyone and would do whatever for whoever and expect nothing in return. I have spent a good deal of time in the northern states and the attitudes are totally different, not bad, just different. I will end my rant now.

I just knew I'd like him.
 

familyman

Super Member
Two backgrounds for me.
First paternal side:
My great grandfater came over on the boat from Ireland as a very young boy, at 14 he was asked to leave the farm, there were too many sons, not enough land to support them all and he was just too far down the line. He got a job in a brass foundry and did as well as any blue collar man of the era did. My grandfater was solidly blue collar as well and struggled to provide through some hard times, he did however wish more for his kids than he had and one of the three (my dad) made it to college which was quite a proud thing for the family.
My dad was a first generation college grad, every dime that paid for college came from him working or student loans, never the less through some really hard work he provided well for us and eventually bought out his veterinary practice to be his own boss when I was in college. I'm very proud of him.
Maternal side:
Very old money though the story is fuzzy as all most remember is the fall from about the great depression on. They didn't loose everything but much went including the success of many of the children. Divorces were really introduced in my mothers generation and the splits left her family with nothing but extensive exposure to mothers and aunts that had a very proper upbringing, finishing school and the like. Much of what is proper in my family has been passed down through those women.
So I have a rising side and a falling side and they've come together in my generation. My siblings and I have had the freedom to choose what they wanted to do, blue collar, military, college, we've done it all and had sucesses and failures all, but we've had genuine choices and that's something pretty new to my family. My wife and I are far from upper middle class but through a combination of good work and frugality our children will have at least as many if not more choices than even I had. Through the hard work of generations past I'm able to set a table for my kids and now work on seeing that they have the social tools to pick a good path. My interest in trad has much to do with the propriety and the goodness associated with it. From the dress that shows respect for the world indirectly to the politeness that shows respect directly, many of the qualities I wish for my children to have can be seen in the better trads. I believe that the best way to teach being a good person is to be that person as an example, so I work on myself. I strive to be better as a person and a father. I hope that the respect and work that I put forward in the world influences my children the same way that many of your fathers have influenced you and indeed, as my father has influenced me.

_____________________________________________________________________________
I am no enemy of elegance, but I say no man has a right to think of elegance till he has secured substance, nor then, to seek more of it than he can afford.

John Adams
 

Brownshoe

Super Member
Interesting stuff. Tom22, I'd love to hear more about Wesleyan in the 70s--I was there in the 90s, and it was fantastic, exciting, stimulating, but not so trad. Kind of like an extended summer camp for smart weirdos, with lots of sex and drugs. Certainly an eye-opener for this Kansas boy.

My "authentic trad credentials" are a little screwy. Dad was from an upper-middle-class Kansas City family. He was an executive in an insurance company. Pictures of him in 60s reveal a lot of standard trad stuff--sack suits, button-downs, knit ties. In the 70s, he bought contemporary clothes, but always very sober and conservative. He had style and was very opiniated on such matters--I remember he once angrily took me out of a department store after noticing the man helping us was wearing Argyle socks with a suit.

Mom was from a crazy Irish family--her dad was career military, and they moved around a lot, spent time in Europe after WWII. Pretty blue collar crowd, boisterous, athletic, badly behaved, tight-knit--Mom joked they were like the Kennedys, without the money and class. They are all very attractive, too, which explains how my parents ended up together.

We lived in a nice suburb called Overland Park and led a Leave It to Beaver sort of existence until my parents were in a catastrophic car accident that killed Dad and landed Mom in the hospital for months. I was ten. Dad was the last living member of his family--his parents were older when they had him. After recovering, Mom took my sister and I to live with her extended family in Wichita, a blue-collar town. The money left by Dad was gone, spent on medical bills. Life was very different.

My younger sister eagerly embraced the new circumstances, being a naturally rowdy sort of fun-loving girl. I was horrified, and with a single-mindedness that now freaks me out a little, strove to recreate the life I had expected before the accident. I got scholarships to a private prep school, with blazers and the whole deal. Insisted on going East to college. Dressed "Preppy," as it was known then, and was considered a benign alien by Mom's family.

And so it is. They are amused by me and bemused to hear about life in NYC, my job, etc. I might as well be on the moon, in their eyes. Something in me just identified so strongly with my Dad's persona (spent a lot of time with his Updike, Roth, Cheever, O'Hara collection in my teens)that I reordered my reality to emulate it. I am proud of my Mom's legacy--liberal politics, a love of pop culture, emphasis on familial warmth and closeness--and think it tempers Dad's influence nicely.

Whew. Sorry to blather on--sorry JoeyZaza (is that a Godfather reference?) for taking myself so seriously. I hope some of you find this interesting. The sharp divide in my class origins, and the stark way our fortunes turned so suddenly, has made these issues and questions compelling to me. Armchair sociology, to be sure.

In the mood to watch Five Easy Pieces again...

Brownshoe
 

jmorgan32

Suspended
quote:Originally posted by DartmouthMan88

Oh, by the way....I do wear Adidas Stan Smiths!!!

Nicely done Mr. Dartmouth. I played ball all the way up until my Sr. yr in HS.........got booted off the team for smoking in the bathroom...Horrible kid. (Track team after that)
I loved baseball. Pitched and played shortstop like you did. No way as good as you were though. I did have one hell of a catcher in what we called "Babe Ruth League." His name is Larry Owen-went to Bowling Green U. then played in the bigs........Yep, he made it to the Braves. I have his baseball card actually. Mostly AAA, but they called him up for 6 months one year and then for a while the following year.
What I hated was when I was f***ing up pitching, he would throw it back to me deliberately so freaking hard it would about rip my glove off. He was a beast............(takes major b**lls to get to that level as you know.)
 

rl1856

Senior Member
I had posted this last year as my introduction to the AA group. Given the thread subject, I thought it appropriate to repost in slightly modifed form. Thanks in advance for the indulgence. Ross

---

Both sides of my family arrived in this country in the mid 19th century and were originally from what was Prussia. My father’s side of the family was part of the upper middle class establishment before coming here. My mother’s side was blue collar. Once here both sides proceeded to improve and prosper through the usual avenues of hard work and education. Early on members of both sides of the family were college educated (Columbia, Cornel and Michigan) and achieved success as doctors, lawyers and judges.

Coming forward a few generations to me, I grew up in an old-line section of NJ, and was public school educated. My parents were divorced when I was young with my mother retaining custody of me. When I was 12, my Grandfathers passed away within a few months of each other. What I remember of each was their kindness, their manner and their attire. Both were always well dressed, in a style I now know to be Trad. Having inherited some of their clothes, I saw that they were purchased from Brooks or other local traditional stores.

After the divorce, my Grandmothers (on both sides) took a keen interest in my upbringing. Manners were taught at an early age and being polite to all was not only understood, but expected. Until my mid teens, I dressed in whatever was purchased for me and I rarely cared where the items came from. Even then I had corduroy trousers, colared shirts and crewneck sweaters, while others were running around in jeans, t shirts and sweatshirts. When I began to express an interest in what I wore, my maternal Grandmother sent me to the 346 BB store with intructions to see Mr. so and so, who would take care of what I needed. No bill was presented or seen; later I discovered that we had a house account. This was the late '70s by the way. I have been clothed by Brooks (mostly) ever since.

In the early 1980's I went off to college (small private liberal arts college in Atlanta) where my freshman class initially appeared to be a mostly egalitarian group. Over the first few weeks however I began to encounter others who looked and acted as I did. What was interesting is that when Fraternity Rush began, the group of us who seemed to be more alike attended all of the formal rush parties dressed in coat and tie, and we were the only ones to do so. We did not confer with each other beforehand, yet we all were dressed nearly alike: 3b sack Navy Blazers, plain front dark grey worsted or khaki chino trousers, white or blue bd, rep tie, Bass Wejuns. The rest of the rushees were in jeans, shorts etc etc. On the other side of things, there was only 1 house where all of the brothers were attired as we were. It was unspoken at that time, but we all pledged that same fraternity. As I began to get to know my pledge brothers better, I found that most of my pledge class were from old southern families and grew up in very traditional southern towns, with a majority having been private day or boarding school educated. We all shared a similar outlook on life, clothes, and politics and having only arrived on campus a few weeks before, we were all relieved to find others who felt the same way. As we began to visit each other’s homes, it was understoon that gifts would be brought with us or sent from our respective homes and that following the visits, “Thank You†notes would be sent promptly.

My college experience was one of learning, both inside and outside of the classroom- I developed a fondness for good bourbon.... What most amazed me were the southern girls I encounted. Not only were they preaty, but they also expected that a man would act like gentlemen in their presence- so different from the girls I grew up with. A number of us spent a considerable amount of time with the undergraduates from Agnes Scott College. There we found girls whose backrounds and outlooks were similar to our own. Through connections made there, I met the person who eventually became my wife.

I spent a total of 16yrs in Atlanta before my wife and I moved back to her hometown of Charleston, SC. The contrast between the 2 towns could not be more pronounced. In the time I spent in Atlanta, I watched (and participated in) the city's metamorphasis from the biggest city in the South, to a truly international city that could rival any in the world. By the time we left, it was increasingly difficult to find someone who really was from Atlanta because by then, the majority of residents had moved from other places. For the most part, the only issue that mattered to most residents was how “successful†you were- with success being measured by your bank balance, car and size of your (new) house.

While living in Atlanta, my wife and I regularly visited friends and relatives in Charleston, so that I knew my way around by the time we actually moved. That said, Charleston still is a town where family connections count far more than your net worth. Those not born here are still refered to as being from "Off". In many ways this is now a prototypical "Trad" town- in attire and conduct. The modest extent to which I have been accepted here (while being from off) is as much a testiment to how I conduct myself as it is to how I am dressed or who I married. Even still, I went through what was very much a prolonged "rush" process, something that probably would not be found in other parts of the country.

What I am trying to say is that adherance to the "American/Trad" sensibility is as much about conduct as it is about attire. Polo et al have conditioned much of America to believe that by purchasing the correct clothing, one can be accepted. A vulgar personality can not be hidden by a well cut suit. On the other hand a gentleman will always be recognized regardless of his attire.

Best,

Ross
 

jmorgan32

Suspended
quote:Originally posted by DartmouthMan88

quote:Originally posted by jmorgan32

quote:Originally posted by DartmouthMan88

Oh, by the way....I do wear Adidas Stan Smiths!!!

Nicely done Mr. Dartmouth. I played ball all the way up until my Sr. yr in HS.........got booted off the team for smoking in the bathroom...Horrible kid. (Track team after that)
I loved baseball. Pitched and played shortstop like you did. No way as good as you were though. I did have one hell of a catcher in what we called "Babe Ruth League." His name is Larry Owen-went to Bowling Green U. then played in the bigs........Yep, he made it to the Braves. I have his baseball card actually. Mostly AAA, but they called him up for 6 months one year and then for a while the following year.
What I hated was when I was f***ing up pitching, he would throw it back to me deliberately so freaking hard it would about rip my glove off. He was a beast............(takes major b**lls to get to that level as you know.)

The "bigs" are totally different from anything I ever experienced. I have not thought about playing baseball for a long, long time. Believe me when I tell you I was not all that good either. I think I hit the University about the time they were struggling to field a second baseman! I must admit I did have dreams of one day playing pro ball for the Braves or the Cubs, either would have been okay. I realized after my sophomore year it was not going to happen. I played against alot of the names you would recognize from the late 80's and 90's, they were head and shoulders above me in respect to their athleticism. That seems like a lifetime ago. It's funny how fast time flies and you really (or at least I did not) realize how carefree those years are. I am constantly telling my kids how important their school is and pressing them to be involved in as much as possible because before they will realize it, it will all be over and the realities of adulthood will settle in and take hold.

Ab so freaking lutely.....We have a lot in common. As I sit here, 49 yrs old, I can't imaging where the time went. It seems like yesterday playing at OSU, drinking buckets of beer etc. An analogy I once heard that makes a hell of a lot of sense is:
"Life is sort of like those old 78 rpm records, where they are moving slowly at the beginning and then as that needle gets closer to the end of the record it is going like crazy." Remember how the summer seemed so long when you were a kid? You were almost anxious for school to start! Not now............
 

eagle2250

Connoisseur/Curmudgeon Emeritus - Moderator
quote:Originally posted by jmorgan32

Oh hell, question for the whole board!

This whole "definition" of trad, and class distinctions is something I have not really given a lot of thought to and have not really involved myself in.

However, now that I think about it, I want your opinion on my thoughts...........

True blue trads, if you will, were brought up "dressing tradly", acting tradly, etc. Never moving with fashion trends. Right??!! OK.
I also get the impression that most of the "true trads" as defined on this forum, attended rather elite schools, had fathers that wore Aldens, J Press or Brooks suits, etc.
Prep schools as youngsters, and either Ivy League or small Liberal Arts schools for college.

Well, I am not a true trad then. My Dad was a Colonel in the USAF and we had 4 kids in our family. I could not attend a prep school. I did go to a private school for some years, but my Mom taught there so I was "discounted!" I attended a state college. (only. seeming rather lowly-I say kiddingly......Of course we Buckeyes always say our undergrad in Business is equal to an MBA anywhere else!)

I did, however, see my Dad only wearing OCBD's, tan bucks, Florsheims, etc as a kid. (not Alden, et al. probably too expensive or he just didn't care enough to shop around a lot) He shopped at discount houses, wore London Fog raincoats, but to me, looking back this was fairly trad. He worked in a very trad men's store during the summers in college and adopted his tastes and stuck with them. (the 50's)
I don't think he really gave a damn about clothes, and just kept it simple for himself.

I guess I am almost tempted to call our definition of trad, as it has "evolved" through our board discussions, as almost "old money!" Maybe true. I am not sure........I would debate that for the minority of "cases" where you have a trad old college professor. You know the type......Smokes a pipe, blazer with elbow patches, cords, desert boots, etc......you get the pic.. I think they could be truly trad without having the "money" to be "super tradly" and send their kids to prep schools etc.

I quite simply made a decision as a soph or jr in college is was much more economical to go with what we are calling trad on this board and I REFUSED to change. Ever...circa 1978 forward.....Yes in high school there were some bell bottoms (oh crap I admitted it...) and lots of........well........smoking organic things of nature..........OK Harris, don't clench your molars at the bell bottom comment.....I was a damned hood okay!!

I CAN HANDLE THE TRUTH! (aka Mr. Nicholson) I am not tradly! (voice sounding like "I am not worthy!!!!!!!!!")

OK. Feedback welcome as always.

jmorgan32: As I read your comments I must say, much of what you wrote resonated with me (or my experience). In fact a quote from the "Star Wars" movies may fit here. Think if you will Darth Vader saying, jmorgan32, "I am your Father!" Having spent 26 years in military service (active and reserve duty) and 22 years with the Federal government in a law enforcement capacity, I definitly consider myself first generation TRAD. This conclusion has less to do with my economic status (The Lord knows I am not wealthy) than with how I think, the values I embrace, how I chose to live my life and how I chose to dress (of course). My Children have also been educated at state colleges but I must say, we Nittany Lions and Boiler Makers might argue against your conclusions regarding an Ohio State business degree. I am pleased to say, they seem to have adopted TRAD lifestyles. Don't obsess, enjoy your tradliness!

Does anyone think Darth Vader was a TRAD? Surely Luke Skywalker was.
 

jmorgan32

Suspended
quote:Originally posted by eagle2250

quote:Originally posted by jmorgan32

Oh hell, question for the whole board!

This whole "definition" of trad, and class distinctions is something I have not really given a lot of thought to and have not really involved myself in.

However, now that I think about it, I want your opinion on my thoughts...........

True blue trads, if you will, were brought up "dressing tradly", acting tradly, etc. Never moving with fashion trends. Right??!! OK.
I also get the impression that most of the "true trads" as defined on this forum, attended rather elite schools, had fathers that wore Aldens, J Press or Brooks suits, etc.
Prep schools as youngsters, and either Ivy League or small Liberal Arts schools for college.

Well, I am not a true trad then. My Dad was a Colonel in the USAF and we had 4 kids in our family. I could not attend a prep school. I did go to a private school for some years, but my Mom taught there so I was "discounted!" I attended a state college. (only. seeming rather lowly-I say kiddingly......Of course we Buckeyes always say our undergrad in Business is equal to an MBA anywhere else!)

I did, however, see my Dad only wearing OCBD's, tan bucks, Florsheims, etc as a kid. (not Alden, et al. probably too expensive or he just didn't care enough to shop around a lot) He shopped at discount houses, wore London Fog raincoats, but to me, looking back this was fairly trad. He worked in a very trad men's store during the summers in college and adopted his tastes and stuck with them. (the 50's)
I don't think he really gave a damn about clothes, and just kept it simple for himself.

I guess I am almost tempted to call our definition of trad, as it has "evolved" through our board discussions, as almost "old money!" Maybe true. I am not sure........I would debate that for the minority of "cases" where you have a trad old college professor. You know the type......Smokes a pipe, blazer with elbow patches, cords, desert boots, etc......you get the pic.. I think they could be truly trad without having the "money" to be "super tradly" and send their kids to prep schools etc.

I quite simply made a decision as a soph or jr in college is was much more economical to go with what we are calling trad on this board and I REFUSED to change. Ever...circa 1978 forward.....Yes in high school there were some bell bottoms (oh crap I admitted it...) and lots of........well........smoking organic things of nature..........OK Harris, don't clench your molars at the bell bottom comment.....I was a damned hood okay!!

I CAN HANDLE THE TRUTH! (aka Mr. Nicholson) I am not tradly! (voice sounding like "I am not worthy!!!!!!!!!")

OK. Feedback welcome as always.

jmorgan32: As I read your comments I must say, much of what you wrote resonated with me (or my experience). In fact a quote from the "Star Wars" movies may fit here. Think if you will Darth Vader saying, jmorgan32, "I am your Father!" Having spent 26 years in military service (active and reserve duty) and 22 years with the Federal government in a law enforcement capacity, I definitly consider myself first generation TRAD. This conclusion has less to do with my economic status (The Lord knows I am not wealthy) than with how I think, the values I embrace, how I chose to live my life and how I chose to dress (of course). My Children have also been educated at state colleges but I must say, we Nittany Lions and Boiler Makers might argue against your conclusions regarding an Ohio State business degree. I am pleased to say, they seem to have adopted TRAD lifestyles. Don't obsess, enjoy your tradliness!

Does anyone think Darth Vader was a TRAD? Surely Luke Skywalker was.

Welcome Eagle. Pretty tough hombre for a newbie coming on here and talking about Penn State and Purdue.......OK. (personal stuff there......last serious gal i was with her for 5 years. PSU alumn and my ex-sister-in-law Purdue......both very "non friendly" relationships!) Seriously, both great schools. (though for business I have to say Purdue not quite on par with OSU-isn't it an engineering school?) Oh,if your Purdue student is a daughter, don't let her go to Harry's Chocolate Shop"! Trouble!

by the way------26 yrs? exact same as my Dad.
Take care Eagle and welcome!
Joe
 

eagle2250

Connoisseur/Curmudgeon Emeritus - Moderator
quote:Originally posted by jmorgan32

quote:Originally posted by eagle2250

quote:Originally posted by jmorgan32

Oh hell, question for the whole board!

This whole "definition" of trad, and class distinctions is something I have not really given a lot of thought to and have not really involved myself in.

However, now that I think about it, I want your opinion on my thoughts...........

True blue trads, if you will, were brought up "dressing tradly", acting tradly, etc. Never moving with fashion trends. Right??!! OK.
I also get the impression that most of the "true trads" as defined on this forum, attended rather elite schools, had fathers that wore Aldens, J Press or Brooks suits, etc.
Prep schools as youngsters, and either Ivy League or small Liberal Arts schools for college.

Well, I am not a true trad then. My Dad was a Colonel in the USAF and we had 4 kids in our family. I could not attend a prep school. I did go to a private school for some years, but my Mom taught there so I was "discounted!" I attended a state college. (only. seeming rather lowly-I say kiddingly......Of course we Buckeyes always say our undergrad in Business is equal to an MBA anywhere else!)

I did, however, see my Dad only wearing OCBD's, tan bucks, Florsheims, etc as a kid. (not Alden, et al. probably too expensive or he just didn't care enough to shop around a lot) He shopped at discount houses, wore London Fog raincoats, but to me, looking back this was fairly trad. He worked in a very trad men's store during the summers in college and adopted his tastes and stuck with them. (the 50's)
I don't think he really gave a damn about clothes, and just kept it simple for himself.

I guess I am almost tempted to call our definition of trad, as it has "evolved" through our board discussions, as almost "old money!" Maybe true. I am not sure........I would debate that for the minority of "cases" where you have a trad old college professor. You know the type......Smokes a pipe, blazer with elbow patches, cords, desert boots, etc......you get the pic.. I think they could be truly trad without having the "money" to be "super tradly" and send their kids to prep schools etc.

I quite simply made a decision as a soph or jr in college is was much more economical to go with what we are calling trad on this board and I REFUSED to change. Ever...circa 1978 forward.....Yes in high school there were some bell bottoms (oh crap I admitted it...) and lots of........well........smoking organic things of nature..........OK Harris, don't clench your molars at the bell bottom comment.....I was a damned hood okay!!

I CAN HANDLE THE TRUTH! (aka Mr. Nicholson) I am not tradly! (voice sounding like "I am not worthy!!!!!!!!!")

OK. Feedback welcome as always.

jmorgan32: As I read your comments I must say, much of what you wrote resonated with me (or my experience). In fact a quote from the "Star Wars" movies may fit here. Think if you will Darth Vader saying, jmorgan32, "I am your Father!" Having spent 26 years in military service (active and reserve duty) and 22 years with the Federal government in a law enforcement capacity, I definitly consider myself first generation TRAD. This conclusion has less to do with my economic status (The Lord knows I am not wealthy) than with how I think, the values I embrace, how I chose to live my life and how I chose to dress (of course). My Children have also been educated at state colleges but I must say, we Nittany Lions and Boiler Makers might argue against your conclusions regarding an Ohio State business degree. I am pleased to say, they seem to have adopted TRAD lifestyles. Don't obsess, enjoy your tradliness!

Does anyone think Darth Vader was a TRAD? Surely Luke Skywalker was.

Welcome Eagle. Pretty tough hombre for a newbie coming on here and talking about Penn State and Purdue.......OK. (personal stuff there......last serious gal i was with her for 5 years. PSU alumn and my ex-sister-in-law Purdue......both very "non friendly" relationships!) Seriously, both great schools. (though for business I have to say Purdue not quite on par with OSU-isn't it an engineering school?) Oh,if your Purdue student is a daughter, don't let her go to Harry's Chocolate Shop"! Trouble!

by the way------26 yrs? exact same as my Dad.
Take care Eagle and welcome!
Joe

Thanks for the welcome and it actually gets worse than mentioning Penn State and Purdue in my earlier post...the wife is a wolverine and would you believe she still wears a U of M cap on our morning jogs. Big Ten football pretty much monopolizes the TV screens in our house on Saturdays in the fall (I can't say this too loudly but, I do root for the Buckeyes when they play Michigan!). As I read your comment about dating, it struck me that at least two things (one bad, one good)have remained at Penn State since I enjoyed my time there in the late 60's...the attitudes of the coeds and "JoePa!"

Thanks again!
 
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