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Guest-231522

Guest
Now that’s what I’m talking about. Notice how those jackets extend past the cupped hands which breaks the old rule of where the skirt of the jacket should fall.
It's a good look with the drape and length.

The gorge and lapel looks too low and wide for myself. It's arguable that it's balanced with the overall silhouette that's created. I wonder if the low buttoning point is comfortable when sitting.
Two issues: Both ads depict Italian/Italian inspired fashion, which is to say, Giorgio Armani inspired fashion. Giorgio Armani’s fashion, in turn, was inspired by the dramatic cuts worn in Italy in the 40’s, though a bit more exaggerated. If you were to view things being sold by Paul Stuart during the same period as these ads, everything would be far less exaggerated.

Secondly, it’s not really about how long the jacket is, but rather how long the man is. The jacket should comprise roughly ½ the height of a man’s torso and legs. As a result taller men will often require jackets that fall below their cupped hands.
 

some_dude

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
I guess I don't worry about fashion. I own a Hugo Boss suit from about 1991 (double breasted too!) and I still wear it once in a while. Most people will never notice the length of your jacket-- they will just be impressed that you are wearing a suit at all! For that matter, many people today think a "suit" is a blue blazer.

As for Cary Grant, he could wear his North by Northwest suit today and look perfectly at home.
 

medhat

Super Member
Looking at the pictures on this post i had forgotten just how long jackets had become in the 90's, wow! Most of my current rotation of suiting has come from the 2000's and beyond, and yes, my older jackets are longer, although likely still fall into the category of "normal" length (where it ends at a cupped hand). I think as much as jacket length goes it's as much proportion that influences the overall look. Those 90's jackets, with larger lapels and shoulders, worked with the longer length, and while they may look dated today they're not unattractive. I expect we'll look at much of today's "fashion" as the pendulum swinging the other way, and IMO that's fine if someone intends on changing a suit wardrobe regularly. But for those who are aiming for a more enduring look, there's a lot to be said for staying middle of the road with trends.
 

TKI67

Elite Member
I tend to be blind to all but extremes of jacket lengths. I did not notice any real changes in Southwick jacket length over the years, and I am so grateful they never adopted the high arm hole approach. It saddens me as the remaining stock disappears, but I love the house brand jackets from O'Connell's almost as much.
 

Mike Petrik

Honors Member
I can see that, fashion is often synonymous with trendiness.

However, trends can often set in place long term styles. The Duke of Windsor was quite trendy for his time and broke many rules and conventions. Today, we call that "classic menswear".

My point is that we dress according to particular fashions of an era.
I see your point, but I think the word "style" suits better here than "fashion." Yes, many of us favor an enduring style derived from the fashion of a certain era, but we profess a lack of interest in "fashion" precisely because that word, arguably in contradistinction to "style," does indeed connote an emphasis on constantly changing trends, many of which have an uneasy relationship with aesthetic appeal. A gentleman who adopts as his style the fashion of a particular era has largely, even if not completely, immunized himself from ongoing concerns of fashion,
 
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Andy

Site Creator/ Administrator
Staff member
Here's the suit, and sport jacket fit information from The Encyclopedia of Men's Clothes:

The jacket back should be long enough to cover your butt, that is the lower curve of your rear with ½ inch to spare. The “cup the fingers” method doesn’t really work since some men of equal height have arms that are longer.

Run a tape measure from the base of the collar to the bottom of the jacket in back. Then make sure that the measurement taken is the same for the measurement from the bottom of the back of the jacket to the floor.
 

Troones

Senior Member
Here's the suit, and sport jacket fit information from The Encyclopedia of Men's Clothes:

The jacket back should be long enough to cover your butt, that is the lower curve of your rear with ½ inch to spare. The “cup the fingers” method doesn’t really work since some men of equal height have arms that are longer.

Run a tape measure from the base of the collar to the bottom of the jacket in back. Then make sure that the measurement taken is the same for the measurement from the bottom of the back of the jacket to the floor.
The crux of my argument was that with my proportions, if I use that method (BOC to end of jacket = end of jacket to floor) then it doesn’t cover my butt. So I wear jackets that do cover what they’re supposed to, but are longer than 1/2 of my whole suit.

The longer cut of Armani jackets from the early 80s were longer than standard, even for taller men. I’m thinking of Richard Gere’s suits in American Gigolo as a prime example. If men’s tailoring started favoring that style again, then my suit proportions would fit in.
 
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Guest-226428

Guest
The crux of my argument was that with my proportions, if I use that method (BOC to end of jacket = end of jacket to floor) then it doesn’t cover my butt. So I wear jackets that do cover what they’re supposed to, but are longer than 1/2 of my whole suit.

The longer cut of Armani jackets from the early 80s were longer than standard, even for taller men. I’m thinking of Richard Gere’s suits in American Gigolo as a prime example. If men’s tailoring started favoring that style again, then my suit proportions would fit in.
Should have added, "and still cover the posterior." Men come in all shapes and sizes, and a man with a long torso, but proportionately shorter legs may well need a jacket slightly longer than 1/2 the height of their torso and legs. In this instance, a compromise is necessary. It's worth noting that it is on builds of this type that the ultra short fashionable cuts look worst.
 

Redafan

Starting Member
Yep, drape. The middle guy in the pink backdrop is a good example of what I was referencing. Slight excess fabric in the chest by the armpit.

Drape Cut is indeed special and its own thing.

This man is wearing Steed bespoke, which is probably the best way to get that look these days.



Here is another Steed picture


I'd love to be able to wear this style. It looks like a nice middleground between floppy Neopolitan tailoring, and a stiff, strong British cut.

I've heard it's also incredibly comfortable. I've seen it described as feeling like something is floating on top of you, and it almost seems too big..but it isn't!

My hope is that if Neopolitan tailoring has become so popular and available through many manufacturers OTR, that one day this will be possible as well. Even if only MTO or MTM.
Delish, have you tried the Neopolitan tailoring over at Spier & Mackay? I just picked up two blazers on sale there and I have to tell you, for the price, it is a remarkable fit, true to the Neopolitan tailoring. Based on the OP's initial question, I find that the Neopolitan cut is just a little longer than the average cut today, and similar to the pic you have posted. It takes a little getting used to because I had gravitated to a little bit of a shorter cut, mid-buttocks so to speak.

As an aside, biggest pet peeve today is the jacket that is too short, stops just below the waist. It looks horribly incongruent. The second pet peeve is that guys that buy the blazer that obviously could never button. My rule of thumb for all blazers is that you should always have the option of buttoning your blazer. Why buy it if you can't button it?
 

Rosarito

Starting Member
For every generation, there's some form of "This isn't your dad's old _____" marketing and for that to continue, the pendulum must swing. Soon, if not already, "dad's old suit" will be one with the short jacket and cropped trousers.
 

Matt S

Connoisseur
The short jacket trend comes from mens clothes being smaller in every way, so I think fuller fits will need to come back for men (or rather, shrunken tight fits need to go away). I think for men to be wearing fuller fits again, women's fashion will need to move toward fitted clothing. My wife likes to wear fitted clothes, and she says it's very difficult right now because women's tops are worn very big right now. RIght now, small clothing is masculine and large clothing is feminine. Both need to swing back to the opposite of 20 years ago.
 

delicious_scent

Super Member
Delish, have you tried the Neopolitan tailoring over at Spier & Mackay? I just picked up two blazers on sale there and I have to tell you, for the price, it is a remarkable fit, true to the Neopolitan tailoring. Based on the OP's initial question, I find that the Neopolitan cut is just a little longer than the average cut today, and similar to the pic you have posted. It takes a little getting used to because I had gravitated to a little bit of a shorter cut, mid-buttocks so to speak.

As an aside, biggest pet peeve today is the jacket that is too short, stops just below the waist. It looks horribly incongruent. The second pet peeve is that guys that buy the blazer that obviously could never button. My rule of thumb for all blazers is that you should always have the option of buttoning your blazer. Why buy it if you can't button it?
Yep, sure have Reda!

I love the Neapolitan cut from S&M. It's incredibly comfortable and looks great on me. The shirred sleeve detail is the icing on the cake. It is longer, but it doesn't look too long due to the way it's cut. I've a couple jackets from their regular cut as well, which also works great.

IMO, their sports coats are worth it, even at full price. The E.Thomas fabrics drape especially nicely, but they haven't carried them in a while.
 

Redafan

Starting Member
Yep, sure have Reda!

I love the Neapolitan cut from S&M. It's incredibly comfortable and looks great on me. The shirred sleeve detail is the icing on the cake. It is longer, but it doesn't look too long due to the way it's cut. I've a couple jackets from their regular cut as well, which also works great.

IMO, their sports coats are worth it, even at full price. The E.Thomas fabrics drape especially nicely, but they haven't carried them in a while.
Sorry to hijack the thread Delish, but this just arrived today:

https://www.spierandmackay.com/product/bold-burnt-orange-and-teal-check-41-13451-4522-mto-j

I tried it on for about an hour at the office. The fabric drapes like I had 5 fittings before it was produced. It fits me like a glove and the fabric just flows.

Not ashamed to say I paid full price for it, because I know it would have cost me at least twice in any bespoke tailor shop in Toronto. I love everything about it and it hasn't taken me long to appreciate the majestic lapels that S&P has brought back. Thank God the skinny lapel rebirth has gone away.
 

delicious_scent

Super Member
Sorry to hijack the thread Delish, but this just arrived today:

https://www.spierandmackay.com/product/bold-burnt-orange-and-teal-check-41-13451-4522-mto-j

I tried it on for about an hour at the office. The fabric drapes like I had 5 fittings before it was produced. It fits me like a glove and the fabric just flows.

Not ashamed to say I paid full price for it, because I know it would have cost me at least twice in any bespoke tailor shop in Toronto. I love everything about it and it hasn't taken me long to appreciate the majestic lapels that S&P has brought back. Thank God the skinny lapel rebirth has gone away.
Jacket truly looks delicious, you have any pics of you wearing it? How breathable is that pure silk jacket?

I generally don't prefer traditional windowpanes, but I do dig this variety.

The wide lapels look great with a higher gorge. Once the gorge gets too low, I don't think it looks great IMO. Too many scary 90's suit vibes. I made a thread about this too.

 

drpeter

Super Member
I should have added some extra info. I specifically mentioned 90s because as I recall, the fashion was not just regular length, but actually a little on the longer side. The reason that’s key for me is that I’m on the shorter side, and the conventional wisdom of wearing short jackets to make my legs look longer just ends up cutting me in half. That’s what makes me look shorter. And uncovered backside looks terrible on all men in my opinion.
If we got back to long jackets then I could wear what I wear right now and blend right in!
My own preference is to pay absolutely no attention to the current fashion, whatever that may be. For instance, I have jackets that are regular, slightly shorter and slightly longer. Depending on how a jacket looks to me, I may have my tailor take it in at the hem. but never more than an inch. I wear all of these different jackets with different lengths, and to me, they all look fine.

Similarly my trousers are usually straight cut and sit just above the waist, and they are not narrow like the current style demands. Above all, I truly detest the low-waisted trousers which, when worn with those short jackets, expose the Deadly Triangle of shirtfront and tie between the lower button of the jacket and the waistband of the trousers. An awful look sported by an awful lot of people on television these days, I'm sorry to say (in real life, no one wears suits anymore in the Midwest, except the political class).

In the last thirty years, exactly one young colleague remarked that I was not au courant with the style of the day (this was in the late 90s). I said that I did not follow the fashion of the day because I saw no sense in such things -- they were simply a way of changing certain aspects of clothes to create a renewed interest so that people would go out and buy new clothes to replace perfectly serviceable old ones. To my mind that is not a sensible way to dress, or to live, LOL.
 
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drpeter

Super Member
Sorry to hijack the thread Delish, but this just arrived today:

https://www.spierandmackay.com/product/bold-burnt-orange-and-teal-check-41-13451-4522-mto-j

I tried it on for about an hour at the office. The fabric drapes like I had 5 fittings before it was produced. It fits me like a glove and the fabric just flows.

Not ashamed to say I paid full price for it, because I know it would have cost me at least twice in any bespoke tailor shop in Toronto. I love everything about it and it hasn't taken me long to appreciate the majestic lapels that S&P has brought back. Thank God the skinny lapel rebirth has gone away.
Great jacket! Is it Italian-made? I ask because the spalla camicia and other Neapolitan details, especially the lines of the lapels, suggest Italian tailoring.
 

Troones

Senior Member
Great jacket! Is it Italian-made? I ask because the spalla camicia and other Neapolitan details, especially the lines of the lapels, suggest Italian tailoring.
Wondering if I could jump in to answer as I’m a great Spier and Mackay fan as well. They’re not made in Italy but they nail the Neapolitan features and offer amazing value. I have a suit and three sport coats from them including a navy blazer and a brown corduroy.
 

Redafan

Starting Member
Jacket truly looks delicious, you have any pics of you wearing it? How breathable is that pure silk jacket?

I generally don't prefer traditional windowpanes, but I do dig this variety.

The wide lapels look great with a higher gorge. Once the gorge gets too low, I don't think it looks great IMO. Too many scary 90's suit vibes. I made a thread about this too.

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First, thank you for the Instagram post, totally makes sense and my preference would be the first two blazers. The last one looks a little too dangerously close to the 90's (and who, by the way, ever thought that dropping the gorge as low as the nipple on a men's blazer made any sense whatsoever?). But if you look at the blazer I just sent (well, all of S&M blazers) not only are the lapels more broad, but the gorge, well, let's just say they tend to take a bigger "bite" out of theirs than some designers. But it just works. The lapels, the gorge and how they swoop down to the first button (BTW, I learned about the 3/2 roll from this Board so many years ago, and never thought much of it, until now owning a few blazers with it, and I love the look).

As for pictures of me wearing it, in time, I'm still a newbie on here so let me get my wits about me. And I know what you mean about the pattern and I have a few that are a little on the "bold" side.

Why I liked this one was because of all the different colours you could match a top with. Nice crisp white shirt for more formal, sky blue for a little casual, and then the merino sweater polo tops I love in the colder weather in either a burnt orange colour or teal/dark green. As for weight? My goodness it fels like I can roll it up and throw it in the back seat if I wanted to (I never would) because it feels so light. But even though it's silk, I don't know if the colours are conducive to summer weather, so I'lll keep it for Fall/Winter/Spring. It is very breathable however.

I am over the moon happy with this purchase even at full price.
 
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Redafan

Starting Member
Great jacket! Is it Italian-made? I ask because the spalla camicia and other Neapolitan details, especially the lines of the lapels, suggest Italian tailoring.

Italian colth, made in China. I have no reservations about that. The company carries marvellous fabrics and I will go on receord and say to get an equivalent blazer made in that cloth would run you $1500CAN easy! If you read up on the company, the owner has such a passion for clothing and bringing high quality goods for reasonable prices. There are a few I'm looking at on the site in the VBC (Barberis) fabric, one of my favourite mills in Italy. And they're about a third of the price of what they would be in a bespokse shop.

SO make no illusions, yes, they're made in China but I can, and I'm sure others can, vouch for the contrustion

Full disclosure: I don't work for them, I make no commission on promoting them and I get no other perqs. I just love being able to pass along amazing finds to like minded people. Give up Suit Supply, Indochino, or anyhting of that ilk. S&M is by far more superior.
 
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Redafan

Starting Member
Wondering if I could jump in to answer as I’m a great Spier and Mackay fan as well. They’re not made in Italy but they nail the Neapolitan features and offer amazing value. I have a suit and three sport coats from them including a navy blazer and a brown corduroy.
I found them by accident, I had never heard of them before this year. You sound like a regular being from Toronto, I hear their in-store service is top notch.

And I agree, it's all bout value. Tips on sizing however. If you're ordering Neopolitan, it is truly a European cut and go a size up. Same with slim fit. However, if you do Neopolitan, go with contemporary cut, you won't need to add the slim fit to it.
 
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