RM Williams Boots - Everything You Wanted to Know

Max

Starting Member
It's not too difficult. Try putting on your boot without using the pull tabs.

Of course using the pull tab is easier, but I really dislike walking around with my trousers hanging on the boot.
 

Sator

Honors Member
Modification to Sizing Recommendation Based on AE PA Size

Please note that I am making a change to the sizing recommendation for the Forum Special.

I have 3 ways of working it out:
1. Tight Fit Formula
2. Medium Fit Formula
3. Relaxed Fit Formula

A subjective 'good' fit really does depend on personal preference so this you a range of choices.

Working Out Your Forum Special Size Based on Allen Edmonds Park Avenues

Here is the Tight Fit Formula I have used to work out my own sizing. It works perfectly for me although the result is a skin tight boot, that is about a quarter size tighter than my Park Avenues:

AE PA size minus 0.5 but drop down 2 widths from your usual width

Example:

If you wear AE 10EEE your RMW size is 9.5H
If you wear AE 10EE your RMW size is 9.5G (medium)
If you wear AE 10E = RMW 9.5F
If you wear AE 10D (medium) = RMW 9.5E
If you wear AE 10C = RMW 9.5D
If you wear AE 10B = RMW 9.5C

In my case I wear AE PA 8D so I ordered an RMW 7.5E

Remember, I can only guarantee reasonable success when you order in the French veal calf. The yearling is thicker and less supple/stretchy and will feel up to a half size narrower. The kangaroo is even stretchier than the veal calf.

The only potential problem I can forsee (you will get to see objective measurements for yourself soon) is the Forum Special measures a fraction a narrower than my Park Avenues. If you want a medium fit (especially if your PAs are quite snug side to side) then you should use this formula. I will call this the Medium Fit Formula.

AE PA size minus 0.5 and go down a width.

Example:

If you wear AE 10EE your RMW size is 9.5H
If you wear AE 10E = RMW 9.5G (medium)
If you wear AE 10D (medium) = RMW 9.5F
If you wear AE 10C = RMW 9.5E
If you wear AE 10B = RMW 9.5D

Here is a comparison of the lengths of the Forum Special in RMW 7.5E vs an AE Park Ave 8D:

https://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=forumspecialvspasidewayyz5.jpg

Here is a close up of the tips of the toes. You can see that the AE Nr 5 last is a very long nosed extended last:

https://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=forumspecialvspalengthsyh6.jpg

Remember, those of you happily wearing the Craftsman in AE PA size minus one will be wearing even shorter boots than this.

Here is a comparison of the widths. I am using calipers to compare widths. I set the calipers at the maximum width of the PAs:

https://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pascalipersrb0.jpg

Then I take the calipers set at that width over to the Forum Specials:

https://img263.imageshack.us/my.php?image=b529vspawidthcalipersdn7.jpg

Notice that there is a gap of about 3 millimetres, showing that the PA measure wider. Though the Forum Special is narrower, the subjective sensation is one of a very similar fit to the PAs shown. I think the RMW has softer leather and the last has more volume vertically over the vamp. My 8D PAs are quite snug on me, especially sideways. The Forum Special definitely feels wider than AE 8Cs, which are way too narrow for me to fit into without pain.

OK, maybe the Forum Special feels subjectively just a tiny fraction narrower and quite snug around the ankles. But I like that feel of ankle support and the leather is already soft and supple brand new. As they get broken in that snugness should gradually ease off.

If you have concerns about the faint narrowness and shortness relative to PAs of the Forum Special in my Standard Formula, you could order a Forum Special using the Relaxed Fit Formula:

Your the same size as your AE PA size but drop down 2 widths from your usual width

Example:

If you wear AE 10EEE your RMW size is 10H
If you wear AE 10EE your RMW size is 10G (medium)
If you wear AE 10E => RMW 10F
If you wear AE 10D (medium) => RMW 10E
If you wear AE 10C => RMW 10D
If you wear AE 10B => RMW 10C

This is what Steve is recommending to most of his buyers now. If should result in a comfortable but slightly more relaxed fit.
 

Sator

Honors Member
For all of you who have had trouble over the last week with contacting Steve via email, he tells me he had a server crash and he is now scrambling to catch up.
 

matty

Starting Member
Hi people, first time poster here. I stumbled across this forum by accident a few weeks ago and I must say I'm amazed!
Thing is, I happen to work for RM Williams, making the very boots you are talking about. I was just discussing the fact with the production manager the other day that we seem to be making a lot of narrow fitting screw soled boots with veal calf leather lately (this is quite an unusual combination for us by the way). Now we think we know the reason why!
If there is anything you need to know about RM Williams boots, ask away and I'll try my best to answer.
Whoever ordered the 9G's in Whiskey yearling, I finished 'em this morning!:icon_smile_big:
 

Sator

Honors Member
Hi people, first time poster here. I stumbled across this forum by accident a few weeks ago and I must say I'm amazed!
Thing is, I happen to work for RM Williams, making the very boots you are talking about. I was just discussing the fact with the production manager the other day that we seem to be making a lot of narrow fitting screw soled boots with veal calf leather lately (this is quite an unusual combination for us by the way). Now we think we know the reason why!
If there is anything you need to know about RM Williams boots, ask away and I'll try my best to answer.
Whoever ordered the 9G's in Whiskey yearling, I finished 'em this morning!:icon_smile_big:

Welcome! Well, I guess it was only a matter of time before someone from RM Williams discovered my post.

Can I say please look on this thread in a positive light because it is doing enormous good for the reputation of RM Williams internationally. I know the sales guys at the company frown on internet sellers like Nungar but for every guy who buys online there are others who buy at the London or New York store. It all helps to spread the good word and grow the worldwide reputation of the company.

As to why I am recommending these narrow last it is simple. RM Williams last run a bit short and widish. I think the legacy is partly related to the fact that RMW lasts are quite English but with an Aussie country-styled flavour. Some very fine English lasts such as the Edward Green 202 last are also a bit short and widish, although that last has an exceptionally elegant form by way of compensation. Some guys complained of a lack of sleekness and I found that the B529 last has a wide range of widths. If you go up a size and drop down a width your boot gets made on an 'elongated last' which looks sleeker making it a much finer dress boot.

Anyway, I have a few questions.

Has RM Williams ever thought of making a high end range of boots for the international market? I mean something that would compete in terms of its finish with either something midrange such as Crockett and Jones (around twice the standard retail price of RMWs) or even the upper high-end Edward Green (start at about $1200 AUD a pair) or John Lobb Paris (start at around $1500 AUD). It would involve more expensive calf leathers eg high end box calf, finer stitching, and a more polished finish including more refined channel stitching on the soles. Nb most high end makers sell most of their shoes in Japan which is one market I noticed RMWs hasn't broken into yet (why I wonder...). RMWs does have Chelseas made of crocodile but the finish and construction are the same standard as the Craftsman.

How much more Whiskey yearling do you guys have? It is really popular here. They guys can't get enough of it but I hear it was seasonal stock and that when it runs out it's gone.

I have seen the Biscuit coloured suede but are you guys getting in any other interesting seasonal leathers?

Anyway, RMWs makes one hell of a good value for money Chelsea boot. Keep up the good work. RMWs is a real Aussie icon!
 

well-kept

Super Member
Whoever ordered the 9G's in Whiskey yearling, I finished 'em this morning!:icon_smile_big:

Does this mean that each pair is followed from start to finish by one pair of hands? I am devoted to my chestnut kangaroo craftsman boots, a Christmas gift that I have worn in total comfort from the first hour. Congratulations on making such a fine boot.
 

kbuzz

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
NYC Store reliablity???

Hi people, first time poster here. I stumbled across this forum by accident a few weeks ago and I must say I'm amazed!
Thing is, I happen to work for RM Williams, making the very boots you are talking about. I was just discussing the fact with the production manager the other day that we seem to be making a lot of narrow fitting screw soled boots with veal calf leather lately (this is quite an unusual combination for us by the way). Now we think we know the reason why!
If there is anything you need to know about RM Williams boots, ask away and I'll try my best to answer.
Whoever ordered the 9G's in Whiskey yearling, I finished 'em this morning!:icon_smile_big:

Welcome to the forum. As noted it willl be great if the forum has a liason with RMW. As you can tell folks in this forum have a soft spot for hand crafted, artisanal, high quality products. Particulary products with real history (as opposed to say CT shirts)

One a more selfish note, I really want to try the Forum special but figured Id start with a basic craftsman to get sizing down pat. I special ordered a pair of Whiskey via NYC store. Can I rely on them, there have been reports here and on SF of poor service and failure to follow through.
 
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matty

Starting Member
Sator, I definately see your posts in a positive light, in a way I guess it's a bit flattering to hear and read comments like these about our handiwork!
I suppose I'm not really qualified to answer some of your questions regarding the making of a "high end boot", sounds like a good idea though.
As for the Whiskey yearling, you'll be pleased to know that, owing to it's popularity, it is now going to be an ongoing option.
The Biscuit coloured leather is actually a "distressed leather", not really a suede. There is another very similar "distressed" colour called Silt, which is slightly darker with a bit of a greyish tinge.
A new colour being added to the lineup is Chocolate in yearling and suede. The yearling is a very dark chestnut colour (almost black I suppose) and these boots will also feature a much darker elastic as well.
Well-kept, no, the boots aren't followed from start to finish by one person, there are approx. 75-80 people working here, and most would handle each boot at some stage.
Hope this helps.:icon_smile_wink:
 

Sator

Honors Member
As for the Whiskey yearling, you'll be pleased to know that, owing to it's popularity, it is now going to be an ongoing option.
The Biscuit coloured leather is actually a "distressed leather", not really a suede. There is another very similar "distressed" colour called Silt, which is slightly darker with a bit of a greyish tinge.
A new colour being added to the lineup is Chocolate in yearling and suede. The yearling is a very dark chestnut colour (almost black I suppose) and these boots will also feature a much darker elastic as well.
Well-kept, no, the boots aren't followed from start to finish by one person, there are approx. 75-80 people working here, and most would handle each boot at some stage.

So I guess this chart of the number of steps involved in the making of shoes/boots taken from a German book on high end shoes is accurate then?



https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/3894792523/

I am glad that the Whiskey is now a regular offering. It's a lovely colour which rapidly gains a very rich patina. The other ones will be interesting to take a look at as well. The Chocolate sounds yummy.
 

kbuzz

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
Two RM williams in one day!

Well i got a call from the nyc rm williams store that my whiskey comfort craftsman were here so i picked um up yesterday. About 5 weeks total time from order to delivery. They are very unique color.

Got home with the boots and low and behold a box from steve at nugar was waiting on the same day. These were the chesnut forum specials that i ordered as back up because the nyc store did not enstill confidence at the time of ordering. Anyway here they are, less then a month to nyc, out of the blue.

The FSM came with nice bags, a 20 percent off coupon and a free rm williams branded conditioner/polish. The craftsman direct from the store, were higher priced and came in an empty box. Guess where i would order from next?

They are interesting to see side by side.....And both have different feels. The special model is sleek, more "glovelike". While the comfort is a more robust thicker grade leather. The comfort is of course, squishier in the sole.
The rubber sole is ugly but does not seem to be a visual factor unless looking directly from underneath. The whiskey color is as said before special.


Wore the comfort craftsman around the home in gym shorts last night to break them in-much to the horror of my wife and children. Despite this hideous site, my five year old daughter wanted a pair for herself. But purple. ( ill get her the blundstones). My wife is too scared to speak, having grown up in the 70's she knows what shorts and boots means (lol)

Well i havent even worn the FSM yet but count me as a new rm williams fan. I must give thanks to sator as this model is really very very different then the craftsman.
 
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kbuzz

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
Sizing help, yet again

Hi all. This is a cross post form SF sorry i apologize in advance to those who read both forums. Last month I purchased a whiskey comfort craftsman in 8F and a forum special in an 8.5F. I am having difficulty with the toe box on the Craftsman. Rubbing in the right shoe, side and top. I cant really tell if its too short or not high enough or both. In contrast the FSM fit well.

I would like to replace the whiskey. Givens Stators recent updates which state that up a half size will not help the length im a bit confused as to which size to order. Up a full size to 9F? or up a full size to 9 and drop down to an E width....Note i have already dropped a width from my usual 9D usa.

or up a half size and hope the width solves the toe problem.

Thanks again all.
 
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kbuzz

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
Bump

Hi all. This is a cross post form SF sorry i apologize in advance to those who read both forums. Last month I purchased a whiskey comfort craftsman in 8F and a forum special in an 8.5F. I am having difficulty with the toe box on the Craftsman. Rubbing in the right shoe, side and top. I cant really tell if its too short or not high enough or both. In contrast the FSM fit well.

I would like to replace the whiskey. Givens Stators recent updates which state that up a half size will not help the length im a bit confused as to which size to order. Up a full size to 9F? or up a full size to 9 and drop down to an E width....Note i have already dropped a width from my usual 9D usa.

or up a half size and hope the width solves the toe problem.

Thanks again all.

Anyone?
 

sbaker

Starting Member
color selection

Hello;

I am looking for the RM Williams color that would be the closest to Cordovan... ( a dark maroon).... I have ordered a pair of Balmorals in Black from Steve, but want a pair of Stockman's in cordovan.. The brown or red as not close at all. I can't tell if Chestnut is close, Any ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks

Sam
Dallas,TX
 

Sator

Honors Member
I'd have to go into the RMW store to look at their swatch book, but I don't recall anything that really counts as "cordovan coloured". However, chestnut is closer though nowhere as ruddy.
 

smlaz

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
This is brilliant! Thank you Sator. I've been wearing RMWs since 1999 (Craftsman and Turnout in kanga, Tambo in yearling, and Mallee) and am quite pleased to see the forum specials. You're a man after my own heart - er, feet.
Cheers,
Steve
 

Calle

New Member
In October last year I bought a pair of brown Yard Boots and now I'm thinking of buying me another pair from this excellent company. The Turnout model seems like a good one and besides the chisel toe The Craftsman also looks great.

The material I'm leaning towards is brown suede or whiskey colored leather (how will the bright leather react with water dash, will it get dark spots :eek:?). How much water will a pair of suede RMW resist? I won't jump around in water puddles, but can they handle a fairly large rain with the aid from an umbrella?

What are your thoughts about the comfort versions of the boots by the way?

Thanks

Carl
 

ajo

Super Member
Sator great post about a wonderful boot which I have been wearing for the past 25 years, and this week I'm going to pick up a new pair of Comfort Craftsman.:cool:
 
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