jonlien

Starting Member
I see a general decline in proper attire everywhere I go. Granted I don't fly around the world often, but I do fly once a month within the US.

I see it in airports, restaurants and the streets. This is a disturbing trend because dressing poorly in public is indicative of a lack of respect for other people.

When did people started to dress so badly? What was the turning point in history when people decided to look like slobs?

All comments are welcome!
 

EL72

Super Member
quote:Originally posted by jonlien

When did people start to dress so badly? What was the turning point in history when people decided to look like slobs?

All comments are welcome!
In the late 1960s, rebellion, peace and love, anti-establishmentarianism, long hair, barefoot sandals, reefer...

My hypothesis is that you will see a reversal of this trend in the future. Just like most trends, there are cycles and phases. Once we hit bottom for casual/sloppy dressing (are we there yet?), we will start seeing more dressing up. I think we already are to a limited extent. See the return to more formal business attire after the casual dotcom era.
 

Trying

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
Here's an example of how you can wear fine clothing and still look like a slob.



I used to blame it on youth. But then I watched middle age men become true slobs in public.

The one thing that makes me want to gag is sitting in a restaurant and watching some guy walk by in shorts, tank top and sandals/thongs...hairy legs, hairy arms, and a gorilla back.

The sad part is that it has become so prevasive.
 

Trying

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
quote:Originally posted by EL72

quote:Originally posted by jonlien

When did people start to dress so badly? What was the turning point in history when people decided to look like slobs?

All comments are welcome!
In the late 1960s, rebellion, peace and love, anti-establishmentarianism, long hair, barefoot sandals, reefer...

My hypothesis is that you will see a reversal of this trend in the future. Just like most trends, there are cycles and phases. Once we hit bottom for casual/sloppy dressing (are we there yet?), we will start seeing more dressing up. I think we already are to a limited extent. See the return to more formal business attire after the casual dotcom era.
I agree that there seems to be somewhat of a reversal in the business world. I see fewer people in the "business casual" mode. More and more are turning to sports coats and ties instead of the T-shirts and mock-whatever-they are things.

I'm not sure I like the reverse trend though...I was enjoying being the only guy in a coat and tie at the Monday morning meetings...I was in outside sales so it was acceptable. :)
 

Old Brompton

Senior Member
IMHO, the cause is egalitarianism, the stupid obsession with equality.

Many people reject sartorial traditions because they fear wearing proper clothing might make other people feel inferior or under-priviliged, or cause others to perceive them as 'square,' arrogant, 'hoity toity,' snobbish, stiff, formal, etc.

The result? Dumbed-down dressing. If everyone sports the same sloppy, mass-prole fashions, there's no chance of anyone feeling uncomfortable, resentful, or offended (at least where clothing is concerned).

The modern world is the enemy of true, authentic diversity.
 

LabelKing

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
I agree, it is democracy's fault.

Taking cue from Ortega y Gasset, the masses are mediocre and ultimately quite vulgar.

"Minorities are individual or groups of individuals especially qualified. The masses are the collection of people not specially qualified."

'Naturally, love's the most distant possibility.'

Georges Bataille
 

burnedandfrozen

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
I agree it occured during the '60's although I missed out on that decade. I'm not too optimistic as some of you may be regarding a move towards better dressing. My humble opinion is that at least here in the states we are more concerned with fitting in then standing out. So if the majority dresses down, then that's how most people are going to dress as well. We may like to think of ourselves as having arrived at a distinct individual lifestyle but when you look around so many of us dress, talk, and think alike. We listen to top 40 because that's what everyone listens to or whatever is in the charts on the country/western side or the "alternative" (which isn't very alternative anymore)stations. I'm sure we've all experienced going someplace and having everyone ask why we are so dressed up when in fact we may only be dressed up slightly more so. I once posted here long ago how one summer when I planned to visit my sister. Normally in the summer I'd wear linen pants and light cotton or linen shirts that I roll the sleeves up a little and keep the top two buttons undone. A very casual look but still considered by most to be dressed up. So my sister tells me during a phone conversation "just wear shorts and T-shirts". I love shorts and T-shirts at the beach, at the gym, when I wash my car but when I get together with family and we are going to hit the town I dress like I'd normally dress. I took her comment to mean "Don't dress nicer then us because you make us look bad and/or uncomfortable". So as long as we are like everyone else we feel better and we make others feel better since we are all validating one another.
 

The Gabba Goul

Elite Member
I dont necessarily blame the flower children...most of them grew up to become conservative mainstream America...I blame it on this underlying notion that "everybody is special", and the fact that people actually believe it (I'm sure I'll get pounced on for that one)...anyway...people want to believe that the conventional rules of society don't apply to them, they are too good to dress up...

They'd rather be "comfortable", I never understood that one, people think that wearing stiff heavy jeans, and unbreathable synthetic sweatshirts is comfortable??? They think wearing some sweatshop made claude hoppers with some basketball players name on them is comfortable??? They think that an itchy old ball cap is comfortable???

They truly believe that they are rogues, flauting (sp?) convention in the name of this weird anti-status quo movement, they don't need to conform...they feel that they are too special and the norm is beneath them...the thing they fail to realise is that in all their catering to their own egos, they dont stop and see that every other Joe is thinking the exact same thing...they all think that they're the only one too good to fall in with the rest of the "boring, milquetoast, stuffed shirts"...the problem is they are slobs, pure and simple, they actually think there is nothing wrong with dressing the way they do, and in turn, doing a dis-service to their society by failing to show their fellow man the courtesy of at least trying to make an effort to be presentable, and what's worse than that, society actually accepts that...

...it's sad really...

*****
[image]https://radio.weblogs.com/0119318/Screenshots/rose.jpg[/image]"See...What I'm gonna do is wear a shirt only once, and then give it right away to the laundry...eh?
A new shirt every day!!!"​
 

acidicboy

Elite Member
more than anything, i believe economics drove sartorialism down to the gutter. people hark back to the 30s when everybody were well-dressed- but those were the days when clothes were still custom-made by talented albeit underpaid tailors. in the age of globalization, where mass production can drive down the price of, say an old navy t-shirt to less than $5, an "average joe" would definitely have no problem then with wearing that instead of a nice borelli jacket over a charvet shirt.

oh, that and those sloppy-dressed "rock stars" and celebrities who have so much influence on our pop culture.
 

Trenditional

Super Member
I believe the root cause is laziness and rearing. In general we have become a lazy society, especially the generations born post 1975-1980. The “Gen Y†and to some extent “Gen X’rs†have not had to work for anything. For a few of us “X’rs†who were raised by older parents, we are lucky and were taught some values. There is an overall lack of self-respect which I believe carries over to how people present themselves. Additionally, for every father who doesn’t teach his son values, personal pride and responsibility for their actions, those same lack of values grow stronger with the son’s sons.

Though my father was strict, today I am thankful for what he taught me. I look forward to instilling the same values in my children.

Just today I had a conversation with a female co-worker about how men dress. She was adamant that men wearing suits sans ties and unbuttoned shirts (even facial stubble) was perfectly acceptable dress. In her opinion a more relaxed appearance is much more appropriate today than years ago. What this shows is looking like a slob has become acceptable.

We can only change the image of a well-dressed man, one of us at a time!
 

tiger02

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
It started the day it became acceptable to wear a short riding jacket in town. Egads! Whence the morning coat...
 
I long for the good old days, when men were men, when everyone was respectful as expressed through proper dress and duly obsequious etiquette, and when black people couldn't use the same drinking fountain.


"Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein."

"Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take a boat in the air you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she oughtta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keels. Makes her home."

We will not walk in fear, one of another.
 

Aureus

New Member
quote:Originally posted by Old Brompton

IMHO, the cause is egalitarianism, the stupid obsession with equality.

Many people reject sartorial traditions because they fear wearing proper clothing might make other people feel inferior or under-priviliged, or cause others to perceive them as 'square,' arrogant, 'hoity toity,' snobbish, stiff, formal, etc.

The result? Dumbed-down dressing. If everyone sports the same sloppy, mass-prole fashions, there's no chance of anyone feeling uncomfortable, resentful, or offended (at least where clothing is concerned).

The modern world is the enemy of true, authentic diversity.
 

LabelKing

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
Who wants to look like "conservative mainstream America?"

'Naturally, love's the most distant possibility.'

Georges Bataille
 

Trenditional

Super Member
quote:Originally posted by LabelKing

Who wants to look like "conservative mainstream America?"

'Naturally, love's the most distant possibility.'

Georges Bataille
No one is saying conservative. But look "appropriate" for the occassion.
 

JLibourel

Honors Member and King Fop
These threads come up with some degree of frequency and regularity. Although it's a commonplace to blame the flower children (or "filthy hippies," if you prefer), I think a lot of the blame can be laid at the feet of the so-called "Greatest Generation." A great many of them, after four years in khaki or olive drab, espoused apparel of the most garish bad taste imaginable. Look at how retirees all-too-often dress on golf courses and elsewhere today. My uncle was a good case in point. In the photos I have of him pre-war, he dressed in accordance with the dapper elegance of the 1930s, when masculine elegance was at its height. After the war, he all too frequently wore loud, hideous apparel that made his sister (my mother) and me cringe, even as a young sprout. His father (my American grandfather) was of an era before sportswear became fashionable. Until very late in life, on weekends, he would wear an old white dress shirt and some old suit trousers. In his day, wearing a sport coat and tie to work was so daring and fashion forward that anyone who dared to do it was perceived as possibly gay or (as my grandfather would have termed it) a "filthy pansy!"
 
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