Virtue Aesthetics

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
Personally I think it looks quite naff, at best a small step up from the "lost jacket" look. On my daily commute to work I now see businessmen of all ages wearing their full suits and spread collar white shirts without a tie. In fact its becoming a norm, if not the norm (I'd say its about 50/50 tie/no-tie).

So I know its now a well-established rule for the sartorially inclined that a tie is not to be worn with a shirt when the jacket is left at home or else you might give off bank teller/ supermarket manager vibes, but I would like to know if there is such a rule stating that men really should be wearing a tie with the suit and dress shirt. To me it seems like an obvious faux-pas, yet PutThisOn who I have taken many style cues from seems to endorse the missing tie look.

What is AAAC's take on the matter?

Please don't remind me that the proverbial 'you' can do whatever the heck you please when it comes to dress and rules.

Best,
VA
 

SG_67

Connoisseur
Give up the struggle. It's not a good look.

Stick to a sport coat and slacks if you want to go without a tie but in favor of "stepping it up" a bit.
 

cdavant

Elite Member
Doctors will routinely ditch the white coat and keep the tie on, particularly in the office.

The take, otherwise, seems to be suit without a tie means you spilled something otherwise you would never do it.
 

Il Signor Crispone

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
I used to do it in my 20s. Not any more though, I think it looks a bit silly under most circumstances, and even if one does get away with it a tie would look better.

I did think it looked good at the time, although now I can't for the life of me think why.
 
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shadoman

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
Open neck shirts look fine with casual slacks and a sport coat.

I was a big fan of turtlenecks/mock turtles with suits back in the 70's. I'd still wear them if I could find ones that I liked.
 

Flanderian

Connoisseur
Personally I think it looks quite naff, at best a small step up from the "lost jacket" look. On my daily commute to work I now see businessmen of all ages wearing their full suits and spread collar white shirts without a tie. In fact its becoming a norm, if not the norm (I'd say its about 50/50 tie/no-tie).

So I know its now a well-established rule for the sartorially inclined that a tie is not to be worn with a shirt when the jacket is left at home or else you might give off bank teller/ supermarket manager vibes, but I would like to know if there is such a rule stating that men really should be wearing a tie with the suit and dress shirt. To me it seems like an obvious faux-pas, yet PutThisOn who I have taken many style cues from seems to endorse the missing tie look.

What is AAAC's take on the matter?

Please don't remind me that the proverbial 'you' can do whatever the heck you please when it comes to dress and rules.

Best,
VA
It depends upon whom you ask, and there are far more opinions than rules, but I think you have good instincts.

What 99.9% of folks consider the only suits need a tie, because it looks either sloppy or trendoid not to wear one. Of course, if you want to look like a trednoid, here's your ticket.

In my rule book, the exceptions are ultra casual summer suits of linen, cotton poplin or seersucker which I've actually seen look both good and smart worn with a high quality polo buttoned at the neck. And also any of these suits with an appropriate neckerchief or ascot.

My rule book further states that for cooler weather, corduroy, tweed, cavalry twill suits can be worn with an ascot or high quality wool or cashmere turtleneck for an ultra casual look. The key is to be sure the neck is closed.
 
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arkirshner

Honors Member
AAAC , and the other place, have served as incubators, (or minor leagues for the less charitable), for a high percentage of men's clothing bloggers who posted here, and/or at the other place, until they turned pro and started selling advertising. Here is a Jesse production posted here from a few years back. https://askandyaboutclothes.com/com...ion-(J-Press-amp-Thom-Browne)&highlight=jesse

Some men take the term "rule" wrong and I do not want to discuss exactly what a rule is, at least not today. Suffice it to say that the traditions of classical Anglo-American men's dress include: when putting on a suit one puts on a tie. It is up to every man to decide whether he chooses to follow or ignore any particular tradition.

That having been said, to my mind there is a distinction in suit without tie for serious occasions, business included, and suit without tie for clubbing. The reason being that the ultimate purpose when clubbing is to attract women, and when it comes to women the sole rule is , whatever works.
 

Flanderian

Connoisseur
What I believe a tasty but rare exception to Alan's otherwise well articulated observations. (Note obvious country suit.)

12217253293_9a536d98e6_h.jpg

Otherwise, as George Carlin might have said, It's bad for ya!
 

GWW

Senior Member
What I believe a tasty but rare exception to Alan's otherwise well articulated observations. (Note obvious country suit.)

View attachment 12345

Otherwise, as George Carlin might have said, It's bad for ya!
Exactly, with more casual suits you can substitute a day cravat, turtleneck, mao collar or someting similar for the tie, but the more refined suits call for a tie in my opinion, even it it's just a knit tie.
 

williamson

Senior Member
In my rule book, the exceptions are ultra casual summer suits of linen, cotton poplin or seersucker which I've actually seen look both good and smart worn with a high quality polo buttoned at the neck. And also any of these suits with an appropriate neckerchief or ascot...My rule book further states that for cooler weather, corduroy, tweed, cavalry twill suits can be worn with an ascot or high quality wool or cashmere turtleneck for an ultra casual look. The key is to be sure the neck is closed.
Exactly, with more casual suits you can substitute a day cravat, turtleneck, mao collar or someting similar for the tie, but the more refined suits call for a tie in my opinion, even it it's just a knit tie.
Flanderian's last sentence gives the clue to acceptability. The OP is mentioning the wearing of a suit with an open-necked shirt, which I'm glad to see is NOT approved of by those who have so far contributed to this thread.
 

arkirshner

Honors Member
What I believe a tasty but rare exception to Alan's otherwise well articulated observations. (Note obvious country suit.)

View attachment 12345

Great illustration, I don't recall seeing it before. Do you know what issue it was in?



In my rule book, the exceptions are ultra casual summer suits of linen, cotton poplin or seersucker which I've actually seen look both good and smart worn with a high quality polo buttoned at the neck. And also any of these suits with an appropriate neckerchief or ascot.

My rule book further states that for cooler weather, corduroy, tweed, cavalry twill suits can be worn with an ascot or high quality wool or cashmere turtleneck for an ultra casual look. The key is to be sure the neck is closed.

I sign on to your book. Closed neck is the key. Perfectly stated.


A man who dared break the closed neck rule - a cad who makes his way in the world cheating at cards.



https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/7vvL_ETflN4qXblSA0XjTtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?full-exif=true
 

Odradek

Elite Member
I used to do it in my 20s. Not any more though, I think it looks a bit silly under most circumstances, and even if one does get away with it a tie would look better.

I did think it looked good at the time, although now I can't for the life of me think why.

I know guys who have done it for years.
Wearing a suit is cool, but wearing a tie is selling out to the man. That's the attitude really.
 

herfitup

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
Doctors will routinely ditch the white coat and keep the tie on, particularly in the office.

The take, otherwise, seems to be suit without a tie means you spilled something otherwise you would never do it.
Doctors are being asked to ditch the tie. It is a germ magnet.

Suits without ties is the new normal. A lot of places look at like your are crazy if you're in IT, selling IT, anything to do with IT and wear a tie.
 

Matt S

Connoisseur
Suits without ties is the new normal. A lot of places look at like your are crazy if you're in IT, selling IT, anything to do with IT and wear a tie.
I don't think anyone mentioned IT. The suit without a tie is still not normal for well-dressed men. A tie still looks more professional. I work in a technology field, and whilst I don't deal with the outside people, my boss wears a tie when he has to meet with important people. And he's from the modern era.
 

momsdoc

Connoisseur
Doctors are being asked to ditch the tie. It is a germ magnet.
An oft stated belief, not backed up by facts. Additionally, I don't know about you, but I wear a jacket with my tie. This, or a lab coat prevents it from contacting the patient. Better to clean one's stethoscope between exams (something I very rarely observe others doing), or else change ones jacket and shirtsleeves between exams.

Here is an excerpt from the CDC's position.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)’s Guidelines for Environmental Infection Control in Health-Care Facilities state that, “although microbiologically contaminated surfaces can serve as reservoirs of potential pathogens, these surfaces generally are not directly associated with transmission of infections either to staff or patients. The transferal of microorganisms from environmental surfaces to patients is largely via hand contact with the surface.”
 
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Jovan

Honors Member
It depends upon whom you ask, and there are far more opinions than rules, but I think you have good instincts.

What 99.9% of folks consider the only suits need a tie, because it looks either sloppy or trendoid not to wear one. Of course, if you want to look like a trednoid, here's your ticket.

In my rule book, the exceptions are ultra casual summer suits of linen, cotton poplin or seersucker which I've actually seen look both good and smart worn with a high quality polo buttoned at the neck. And also any of these suits with an appropriate neckerchief or ascot.

My rule book further states that for cooler weather, corduroy, tweed, cavalry twill suits can be worn with an ascot or high quality wool or cashmere turtleneck for an ultra casual look. The key is to be sure the neck is closed.
These are my feelings too. Summer fabrics are already associated with casual, easygoing, and so forth. So it looks less out of place than going tieless with a worsted or another typical city suit fabric.
 
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