Something I've been struggling with -- The Suit without a Tie --

[Matt S]

An oft stated belief, not backed up by facts. Additionally, I son't know about you, but I wear a jacket with my tie. This or a lab coat prevents it from contacting the patient. Better to clean one's stethoscope between exams (sometning I very rarely observe others doing), or else change ones jacket and shirtsleeves between exams.

Here is an excerpt from the CDC's position.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)’s Guidelines for Environmental Infection Control in Health-Care Facilities state that, “although microbiologically contaminated surfaces can serve as reservoirs of potential pathogens, these surfaces generally are not directly associated with transmission of infections either to staff or patients. The transferal of microorganisms from environmental surfaces to patients is largely via hand contact with the surface.”

Glad to know my doctors don't cause any harm by looking professional.

 

[cdavant]

I don't deal with many open wounds anymore. That being said, the most contaminated surfaces in my office are doorknobs and (I shudder to even think) keyboards and ipads.

 

[momsdoc]

My most contaminated objects it seems are from the nearby Chinese restaurant. The health department came by last summer and emptied out half a dumpster full of food products. It took me weeks before I could bring myself to start ordering again. They do make a mean black bean sauce.:eek2:

 

[Stubbly]

Please don't remind me that the proverbial 'you' can do whatever the heck you please when it comes to dress and rules.

Well, I would never suggest that you can do whatever the heck you please. However, as in all things, one must use good judgment, and not be a slave to rules. I've noticed a number of AAAC members bend the "rules" as they see fit, whilst a number of AAAC members seem to make up "rules" to justify their opinions, likes and dislikes.

Although I agree that sometimes wearing a suit without a tie doesn't look good, sometimes it looks just fine, depending on the suit, the shirt and the collar. Under certain circumstances (e.g. a hot summer afternoon), IMO, wearing a tie with a dress suit is not mandatory, unless the situation typically calls for wearing a tie (e.g. wedding, funeral, office dress code, etc.).

With casual suits, I think wearing a tie is optional. I don't have any casual suits, only casual sport coats. Hence, in an informal setting, when I'm in the mood to wear one of my dress suits, I feel no obligation to wear a tie. For example, when I go out for Sunday brunch with my family, I frequently wear a dress suit without a tie, and I frequently receive compliments on my attire.

 

[Stubbly]

I don't deal with many open wounds anymore. That being said, the most contaminated surfaces in my office are doorknobs and (I shudder to even think) keyboards and ipads.

I seem to remember reading that telephones are very high on the list of contaminated things.

 

[momsdoc]

I seem to remember reading that telephones are very high on the list of contaminated things.

And for good reason. How many other objects do people routinely, inadvertently spit on, and then hand to another person to put next to their mouth. With the exception of a mother "cleaning" the babies pacifier.

 

[Quetzal]

I think it only works casually and in warm weather, although to get it to look right, one must be wearing a light-weight two-piece suit with a loop-collar shirt, collar out. Maybe I've been looking at too many old photos again.

 

[Jovan]

Perhaps. I see nothing wrong with a poplin suit and a button-down collar shirt. It is one of the best collars without a tie since it props itself up.

 

[Flanderian]

Great illustration, I don't recall seeing it before. Do you know what issue it was in?

OK, it's from Esquire, not Apparel Arts, and while I couldn't find a date for that specific page, a print that appears as if it may have been from the same, or a near issue is dated March 1936. And the accompanying text with the illustration you queried discusses spring. So March '36 is my best guess unless I can find some additional information.

 

[Mrharristweedmbe]

It does give off the appearance of a middle class carefree (or maybe just careless) do-what-i-want-to type person

 

[GWW]

You had me until you got to the Mao collar.

What's wrong with mao collars?

 

[phyrpowr]

I agree with several above that a light colored, more "casual" suit can be worn well with a buttoned polo, or a button-down or other that sort of stands up. But a dark "serious business" suit with spread collar and no tie always makes me think the guy was wearing a tie but took it off because "Jeez, dese t'ings makes me feel like I'se chokin'". A bit Slobbovian.

 

[Traser]

Without tie for sports coat and blazer only.

Suit with a tie - always!

 

[Flanderian]

What's wrong with mao collars?

Serious question?

OK, it's warmed-over early '70's designer ersatz.

Not taken seriously 45 years ago, they are in the same class as Thom Browne and cargo shorts.

Oh, wait . . . .

 

[FLMike]

Doctors are being asked to ditch the tie. It is a germ magnet.

Suits without ties is the new normal. A lot of places look at like your are crazy if you're in IT, selling IT, anything to do with IT and wear a tie.

I think upr_crust works in IT....and has been known to wear a tie from time to time.

 

[GWW]

Serious question?

OK, it's warmed-over early '70's designer ersatz.

Not taken seriously 45 years ago, they are in the same class as Thom Browne and cargo shorts.

Oh, wait . . . .

Hm; I didn't know that as I did not experience the '70's and neither do I feel the urge to educate myself about them. I kind of like mao collars...

I think upr_crust works in IT....and has been known to wear a tie from time to time.

Yes, but look at the WAYWT thread; it's really not that often, so they might think he's only a little bit crazy

 

[Flanderian]

Hm; I didn't know that as I did not experience the '70's and neither do I feel the urge to educate myself about them. I kind of like mao collars...

There are stylish men who can wear a not particularly stylish item of apparel, but still look good in it. Perhaps you are among them.

(See Rules #6 and #10. )

 

[Mike Petrik]

I know guys who have done it for years.
Wearing a suit is cool, but wearing a tie is selling out to the man. That's the attitude really.

I wear a tie with a suit. Of course, I am the man.

 

[Fading Fast]

Great illustration, I don't recall seeing it before.


A man who dared break the closed neck rule - a cad who makes his way in the world cheating at cards.



https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/7vvL_ETflN4qXblSA0XjTtMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?full-exif=true

1936 or not, the guy with the suit on without the tie foreshadows the ugly 1970s disco suits (shows they got some things wrong even in the 1930s style world, occasionally)

I seem to remember reading that telephones are very high on the list of contaminated things.

The best thing about cellphones is not having to use disgusting public phones (and in NYC by the 1970s, disgusting was the best thing you could say about them).

What 99.9% of folks consider the only suits need a tie, because it looks either sloppy or trendoid not to wear one. Of course, if you want to look like a trednoid, here's your ticket.

In my rule book, the exceptions are ultra casual summer suits of linen, cotton poplin or seersucker which I've actually seen look both good and smart worn with a high quality polo buttoned at the neck. And also any of these suits with an appropriate neckerchief or ascot.

My rule book further states that for cooler weather, corduroy, tweed, cavalry twill suits can be worn with an ascot or high quality wool or cashmere turtleneck for an ultra casual look. The key is to be sure the neck is closed.

I always thought the turtleneck was the "acceptable" way to wear a suit without a tie in more casual situations and I like the look - but for some reason, that seems to have all but disappeared. Wasn't the idea that the turtleneck covered the open neck and went high up and, thus, had enough structure to be consistent with the suit (which is echoing Jovan's point about an OCBD at least "standing up" on its own)?

 

[Odradek]

Bill Murray at Elvis Presley's funeral.
On closer inspection, this may be a blazer.