Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy

justonemore

Elite Member
Just another study backing up the points I've made in several of my past posts concerning the lack of freedoms and democracy in the U.S.

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

If any "civilized" contry should be on the brink of a "Ukraine situation, it should be the U.S. I'm sure all the true "leftisits" and "rightists" will come out in favour of such nonesense. I'm certainly looking forward to Hitch coming up with a couple one-liners to defend such policy. Although I'm only linking to a BBC article based on a Princeton study, Petrik will claim that my post shows a disregard for "truth" . I'm sure the righties will state that it's "liberal media & liberal univerities" that drive the info. As for me. I will once again claim that the U.S. has nothing to do with honor, integrity, justice, fairness, democracy, freedom, etc. These days the "American Dream" is nothing more than a bunch of propagnda to make everyone fall in line. Freedom of religion and freedom of speech? These fall in line to the current political mode (any opposition to special interest groups such as religions, sexual preferences, race, etc are automatically seen as racist, sexist, etc). If there is no taxation without representation and only the rich are being represented where does that leave the other 299.9 million people in the U.S.? Campaign Finance reform? Well that's obviously unconstituitional according to the "rightest" U.S. supreme court (who is probably more than happy to get outside funding as well). Freedom from religion? Just ask any group outside mainstream Christianity and Judaism how free they are to practice their religions. Christian Scientists? Muslims? Branch Davidians? Mormans? It seems that all have had direct interference from the U.S. government. The right to bear arms? Well this one is all over the place. Who even knows what the rules and régulations are anymore? Obviously it's a special interests game that costs $100s of millions per year. Freedom of the press? Only when the topic is ok with the government and the owners of such publications. Could you imagine how great the U.S. of A. could be if the politicians actually did what they were paid to do? If money was well spent versus waisted (the mayor of Chicago has recently run up almost a $million in travel expenses alone). For goodness sakes, how much waste and abuse of power will the Amewrican people take before rising up and changing something that has obviously gone wrong? Torture. Secret prisons. Imprisonment without trial. Murder of civilians in countries far away from American shores. 1st in military spending yet last in education, health care, and infrastructure. There are so many laws passed each year in the U.S. that the basic Citizen is probably guilty of violating a few each year (even by accident). Tax codes are draconian at best and the average family almost need to hire Professional accountants just to file a basic form. I myself haven't lived in the U.S. for 10 years but am somehow expected to support the U.S. government (and its illegal war machine).
 
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SG_67

Connoisseur
It's truly remarkable the depth of penetration that Marxist ideology, even in its much distilled form, has had around the world. Europe included, not to mention the 3rd world. The U.S. seems to be the only country that's resisted.

Your long soliloquy, my friend, has within it a sentence that completely contradicts your point: "For goodness sakes, how much waste and abuse of power will the Amewrican people take before rising up and changing something that has obviously gone wrong?"

The difference is that in most countries violent revolutions are required. The American public can vote in and out whomever it pleases. Our laws even have provisions to oust and impeach corrupt politicians. The problem is that many voters are apathetic. This should not be mistaken with powerlessness.

I don't think racking up air fare expenses equates to outright stealing of public funds to build a lavish $25 million dollar mansion with priceless works of art and gold plated flush handles on toilets.

Rich people will always have influence in government and politics. The difference is that our system has checks and balances to make sure that this does not dominate. Think of all the politicians that have been bounced out of office despite backing by organized parties and being well funded.
 

justonemore

Elite Member
The US is a republic.

As was/is the USSR, PRC, PRK....What proud company the U.S. keeps. You are indeed right up there with exécutions and military spending. Too bad that you're falling behind most of them in education and social issues.
 
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justonemore

Elite Member
The difference is that in most countries violent revolutions are required. The American public can vote in and out whomever it pleases. Our laws even have provisions to oust and impeach corrupt politicians. The problem is that many voters are apathetic. This should not be mistaken with powerlessness.

It's truly remarkable the depth of penetration that Marxist ideology, even in its much distilled form, has had around the world. Europe included, not to mention the 3rd world. The U.S. seems to be the only country that's resisted.

Just curious... Have you ever been to Europe? If so, how long? It appears that you are stating things from the typical "20% of Americans have passports" point of view.

Yes. The U.S. is one of the last holdouts to realize that education, health care, and social services are important to a society. Most people also believe in "god" over Science and have never traveled. Are you suggesting the world take the U.S as an example as to what is "good"?

The American public have very little choice as to who they vote in or out. It is either "mess with your personal life christian republicans" or "steal your mony for non-effiecient programs and ignore the constitution" democrats. I disagree with most points from both sides as do many, many americans...Our choice is still idiot 1 or idiot 2. Both parties are more than happy to keep the funds flowing as such. How many corrupt politicians have been outed or impeached versus resigning with full benefits (benefits that serve the corrupt better than those that pay for it of course).

Other than military superiority, can you name one thing that the U.S. excels in globally versus anyone else?

I don't think racking up air fare expenses equates to outright stealing of public funds to build a lavish $25 million dollar mansion with priceless works of art and gold plated flush handles on toilets.

I do Wonder what all the $multi-million houses/flats of Emannual Rahm look like. They don't seem to show much on line but I bet they cost as much as the ousted Ukrainian President (and this from a city mayor versus the poresident of a country). You seem to forget that these people are staying in hotel rooms that cost $500-750 a night (much more than most people can afford) and are racking up expenses for limos and security (they must be gods huh?). Let's not forget fine dining, room service, tips, wines, $10 cokes, etc...I hate to say it but First class travel expenses for you and your entire team should not be a given when the majority of your populace can't even afford a basic vacation within the same state (let alone something simple like wisconisn dells). Rahms net Worth is $15 million. Not bad for someone that wants to dump education and social services in favor for speed radar contracts for his Buddies that he has investments with.




Rich people will always have influence in government and politics. The difference is that our system has checks and balances to make sure that this does not dominate. Think of all the politicians that have been bounced out of office despite backing by organized parties and being well funded.

Really? Think of all the politicians that are still in office despite serious issues... It does more than dominate, it is the standard. Reid out of Nevada gives $100 of thousands to his granddaughter out of taxpayer moneys while his constituency suffers. How great. I suppose the republican would be better? OOPPPs.. Not really... huh?

BTW..Checks and balances has nothing to do with checking on corruption versus the "ideology" of keeping the 3 branches of U.S: government in check (which hasn't worked anyways)...

Rich people should have one vote and shut the F"*ç up otherwise. Just as the other 300 million people that have to live in the same place. $1 does not equal 1 vote (althogh I'm sure many wealthy would love it to be so). Outside influences should have NO say whatsoever on U.S. politics. I don't care if it's our best freinds for Israel or the U.K.... The populace from the U.S. should come first. And yes, that includes coming first before big business.
 
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Hitch

Super Member
As was/is the USSR, PRC, PRK....What proud company the U.S. keeps. You are indeed right up there with exécutions and military spending. Too bad that you're falling behind most of them in education and social issues.
LOL another pathetic attempt at discovering moral equivalency'. Ho hum.

If any "civilized" contry should be on the brink of a "Ukraine situation, it should be the U.S. I'm sure all the true "leftisits" and "rightists" will come out in favour of such nonesense. I'm certainly looking forward to Hitch coming up with a couple one-liners to defend such policy
Was there some 'policy' you had in mind and didnt bother to post or are you just off your meds again?
 

SG_67

Connoisseur
Just curious... Have you ever been to Europe? If so, how long? It appears that you are stating things from the typical "20% of Americans have passports" point of view.

Yes. The U.S. is one of the last holdouts to realize that education, health care, and social services are important to a society. Most people also believe in "god" over Science and have never traveled. Are you suggesting the world take the U.S as an example as to what is "good"?

The American public have very little choice as to who they vote in or out. It is either "mess with your personal life christian republicans" or "steal your mony for non-effiecient programs and ignore the constitution" democrats. I disagree with most points from both sides as do many, many americans...Our choice is still idiot 1 or idiot 2. Both parties are more than happy to keep the funds flowing as such. How many corrupt politicians have been outed or impeached versus resigning with full benefits (benefits that serve the corrupt better than those that pay for it of course).

Other than military superiority, can you name one thing that the U.S. excels in globally versus anyone else?



I do Wonder what all the $multi-million houses/flats of Emannual Rahm look like. They don't seem to show much on line but I bet they cost as much as the ousted Ukrainian President (and this from a city mayor versus the poresident of a country). You seem to forget that these people are staying in hotel rooms that cost $500-750 a night (much more than most people can afford) and are racking up expenses for limos and security (they must be gods huh?). Let's not forget fine dining, room service, tips, wines, $10 cokes, etc...I hate to say it but First class travel expenses for you and your entire team should not be a given when the majority of your populace can't even afford a basic vacation within the same state (let alone something simple like wisconisn dells). Rahms net Worth is $15 million. Not bad for someone that wants to dump education and social services in favor for speed radar contracts for his Buddies that he has investments with.






Really? Think of all the politicians that are still in office despite serious issues... It does more than dominate, it is the standard. Reid out of Nevada gives $100 of thousands to his granddaughter out of taxpayer moneys while his constituency suffers. How great. I suppose the republican would be better? OOPPPs.. Not really... huh?

BTW..Checks and balances has nothing to do with checking on corruption versus the "ideology" of keeping the 3 branches of U.S: government in check (which hasn't worked anyways)...

Rich people should have one vote and shut the F"*ç up otherwise. Just as the other 300 million people that have to live in the same place. $1 does not equal 1 vote (althogh I'm sure many wealthy would love it to be so). Outside influences should have NO say whatsoever on U.S. politics. I don't care if it's our best freinds for Israel or the U.K.... The populace from the U.S. should come first. And yes, that includes coming first before big business.


So anyone who disagrees with you is in the camp of "never having travelled" and so in essence is ignorant of the world outside the cave. And here come the enlightened ones, who bring light to the cave?

Education, healthcare and social security (in the generic sense) are certainly important to society. But does it follow that it needs to be organized, funded and executed by the U.S. Government, or any government? Have you ever been to Chicago? Have you seen what has happened to the concentrations of poverty caused by public housing? Much ink has been spilled writing about as well as portraying these projects in popular culture. They're gone now but there memory stands as a stark reminder of the stupidity of modern socialism and liberalism.

As for the rest of your argument and your comments, I'm sorry but they're just silly and verge on a prepubescent notion of the role of capitalism in society and the governance of a republic. America still stands as the freest country in the world with the greatest degree of public liberty.

Whether you are Swiss or just live there, was there not a referendum just passed to limit immigration? Shall we use France as an example where virtual immigrant ghettos have been created?
 

Hitch

Super Member
Until today I never could understand the throngs queued by their thousands along the border in desperate but futile at escape.
 

Hitch

Super Member
So anyone who disagrees with you is in the camp of "never having travelled" and so in essence is ignorant of the world outside the cave. And here come the enlightened ones, who bring light to the cave?

Education, healthcare and social security (in the generic sense) are certainly important to society. But does it follow that it needs to be organized, funded and executed by the U.S. Government, or any government? Have you ever been to Chicago? Have you seen what has happened to the concentrations of poverty caused by public housing? Much ink has been spilled writing about as well as portraying these projects in popular culture. They're gone now but there memory stands as a stark reminder of the stupidity of modern socialism and liberalism.

As for the rest of your argument and your comments, I'm sorry but they're just silly and verge on a prepubescent notion of the role of capitalism in society and the governance of a republic. America still stands as the freest country in the world with the greatest degree of public liberty.

Whether you are Swiss or just live there, was there not a referendum just passed to limit immigration? Shall we use France as an example where virtual immigrant ghettos have been created?
Well said.
 

justonemore

Elite Member
So anyone who disagrees with you is in the camp of "never having travelled" and so in essence is ignorant of the world outside the cave. And here come the enlightened ones, who bring light to the cave?

America still stands as the freest country in the world with the greatest degree of public liberty.


It's comments like this one, that were the cause of my asking if you've actually had any experience with cultures outside your own. You made a general comment about how great the U.S. is, but provided no proof to back it up. How is the U.S. the "Freest" country? The facts seem to state differently.

No one said that the U.S. is the worst but let's not state untrue things on the other end either. What public liberties do you assume the U.S. has over most of its European counterparts? How is it that the U.S. is "freer" let alone the "freest"? Do you have any examples of this or are you just saying it because you've heard it said by someone else that didn't have facts on their side?

First off. The U.S. didn't even make the top 10 in the 2013 State of World Liberty Index: (Hardly the "freest" now is it?)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_World_Liberty_Index

On the life satisfaction index, the top 10 countries are European...the U.S. ranks 23rd, not first.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-happiest-countries-in-the-world.html?page=all

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satisfaction_with_Life_Index

Corruption index? U.S. weighs in at 19 (well behind most of Europe):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

The index of economic freedom has the U.S. at 10th:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom

Unemployment? 79th:



The U.S. is 16th in median wealth amonst OECD countries alone:

https://www.middleclasspoliticaleconomist.com/2012/07/us-trails-at-least-15-oecd-countries-in.html

Education index... Again the U.S. is ranked not at # 1 but at 21st:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index

U.S. literacy rate is at 95% and well behind even Eastern european countries such as Ukraine:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate

global Innovation? Well the U.S. did a bit better in this category but still lags behind many of it's European counterparts:

)


Here's one the U.S. is number one at...External Debt:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

Here's another...Military Spending:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget


Here's an overall article explaining the deficeincy in your "The U.S. is the best" arguement:

https://crooksandliars.com/nonny-mouse/greatest-nation-earth-isnt-us



Perhaps all these articles backing up my statements are providing juvenile arguements as well? Show me a thread of proof of what you've said versus just saying it. Not everyone buys into U.S. soundbites.

That the U.S. has the highest percentage of its citizens behind bars compared to any country on earth. More than those boogie men in Russia, China, North Korea, and Iran. That doesn't really speak of a "free" country, does it? NSA Tracking? Warrantless searches/phone taps? Knockless warrants? Lack of proper representation in the court system for those of the poorer classes. Where is the evidence that the U.S. is so great? In it's low ranking in life satisfaction surveys? Low education scores? Where is a bit of proof to what you say?


Oddly enough, many of the countries that are more successful than the U.S. have policies that are more socially supportive that those of the U.S. That the U.S. messed up public housing/support doesn't shock me in the least but it certainly holds no relation to those programs that have been successfully implemented elsewhere in the world.
 
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Shaver

Suspended
Now what's going on in this thread? Oh, it's a straight-forward slice of good old fashioned American baiting. What's next, are we going to post pictures of trampling on 'old glory'? :rolleyes2:
 

SG_67

Connoisseur
It's comments like this one, that were the cause of my asking if you've actually had any experience with cultures outside your own. You made a general comment about how great the U.S. is, but provided no proof to back it up. How is the U.S. the "Freest" country? The facts seem to state differently.

No one said that the U.S. is the worst but let's not state untrue things on the other end either. What public liberties do you assume the U.S. has over most of its European counterparts? How is it that the U.S. is "freer" let alone the "freest"? Do you have any examples of this or are you just saying it because you've heard it said by someone else that didn't have facts on their side?

First off. The U.S. didn't even make the top 10 in the 2013 State of World Liberty Index: (Hardly the "freest" now is it?)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_World_Liberty_Index

On the life satisfaction index, the top 10 countries are European...the U.S. ranks 23rd, not first.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/the-happiest-countries-in-the-world.html?page=all

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satisfaction_with_Life_Index

Corruption index? U.S. weighs in at 19 (well behind most of Europe):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

The index of economic freedom has the U.S. at 10th:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom

Unemployment? 79th:



The U.S. is 16th in median wealth amonst OECD countries alone:

https://www.middleclasspoliticaleconomist.com/2012/07/us-trails-at-least-15-oecd-countries-in.html

Education index... Again the U.S. is ranked not at # 1 but at 21st:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index

U.S. literacy rate is at 95% and well behind even Eastern european countries such as Ukraine:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate

global Innovation? Well the U.S. did a bit better in this category but still lags behind many of it's European counterparts:

)


Here's one the U.S. is number one at...External Debt:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt

Here's another...Military Spending:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget


Here's an overall article explaining the deficeincy in your "The U.S. is the best" arguement:

https://crooksandliars.com/nonny-mouse/greatest-nation-earth-isnt-us



Perhaps all these articles backing up my statements are providing juvenile arguements as well? Show me a thread of proof of what you've said versus just saying it. Not everyone buys into U.S. soundbites.

That the U.S. has the highest percentage of its citizens behind bars compared to any country on earth. More than those boogie men in Russia, China, North Korea, and Iran. That doesn't really speak of a "free" country, does it? NSA Tracking? Warrantless searches/phone taps? Knockless warrants? Lack of proper representation in the court system for those of the poorer classes. Where is the evidence that the U.S. is so great? In it's low ranking in life satisfaction surveys? Low education scores? Where is a bit of proof to what you say?


Oddly enough, many of the countries that are more successful than the U.S. have policies that are more socially supportive that those of the U.S. That the U.S. messed up public housing/support doesn't shock me in the least but it certainly holds no relation to those programs that have been successfully implemented elsewhere in the world.

I'm curious as to the validity of these indexes. But let's assume they are valid measures of what you say. It's difficult to compare EU employment vs. U.S. employment rates as the EU has some very strange employment rules. Approximately 16% of people employed in the U.S. are employed in the public sector. Compare that to France and Germany (I'll use them as they are among the 2 largest EU economies) which are between 30-35%. Also, France has some peculiar laws about layoffs and firings. Given this, it's no wonder there is a higher employment rate in the EU, albeit an inefficient one. I suppose we could raise taxes and have more government employees, thereby putting people to work shuffling papers around. But then, who would be left to actually contribute to the economy and innovate.

Since you're fond of citing random indexes and articles, I'll point you toward this one:

https://www.bloomberg.com/slideshow/2013-02-01/50-most-innovative-countries.html#slide51

As for military spending, much of the technology that the world enjoys comes from military innovation from the U.S. The products and services are legion so I'll leave it to you.

The Swiss do have us on chocolate though, I'll grant that.
 

Snow Hill Pond

Elite Member
I think the majority of Americans who travel abroad for work or pleasure come home with a better appreciation of what we have here in the States. It's not perfect, but I'll take it over anything else that I've seen so far.
 

Chouan

Honors Member
Rich people will always have influence in government and politics. The difference is that our system has checks and balances to make sure that this does not dominate. Think of all the politicians that have been bounced out of office despite backing by organized parties and being well funded.

Yes, in the US you have equal opportunities. Any multi-millionaire can run for President!
 

Hitch

Super Member
LOL another pathetic attempt at discovering moral equivalency'. Ho hum.

Was there some 'policy' you had in mind and didnt bother to post or are you just off your meds again?
I take it you had no 'policy' in mind just you r usual chemical imbalance.
 

Chouan

Honors Member
Thank heaven that rules out most school teachers.

Oh, look, a smartar$e one-liner from Hitch, what a surprise!
That was sarcasm, Hitch, in case you failed to understand. Don't worry, I have no anticipation of you actually making any kind of evidence based argument, so no pressure. On the other hand, I'm sure that you'll come out with another pointless smartar$e one-liner that doesn't bring on the discussion in any way whatsoever.
 

Chouan

Honors Member
I think the majority of Americans who travel abroad for work or pleasure come home with a better appreciation of what we have here in the States. It's not perfect, but I'll take it over anything else that I've seen so far.

Yes, most people are most comfortable with what they're used to.
 
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