Study: US is an oligarchy, not a democracy

SG_67

Connoisseur
Zionism is a relatively modern, late nineteenth century idea. Few concepts have been the cause of so much trouble. It is debatable whether Ashkenazi Jews even came from that part of the world in the first place.

It is wrong that America has allowed money to further this idea that benefits so few at the expense of so many.

The entire notion of nationalism is relatively new and was on full display in 1848. The notion of Zionism is just a product of that revolutionary period.

Mind you, Jews were precluded from participating in many institutions throughout Europe, and although tolerated, were certainly not integrated. Many had to convert in order to hold posts at universities, government and a host of other occupations. Seen in that light, one cannot blame them for wanting their own state.

I won't debate you on the merits of aid to Israel as this ground had been covered and further arguing it would be futile.
 

Chouan

Honors Member
The entire notion of nationalism is relatively new and was on full display in 1848. The notion of Zionism is just a product of that revolutionary period.

Mind you, Jews were precluded from participating in many institutions throughout Europe, and although tolerated, were certainly not integrated. Many had to convert in order to hold posts at universities, government and a host of other occupations. Seen in that light, one cannot blame them for wanting their own state.

I won't debate you on the merits of aid to Israel as this ground had been covered and further arguing it would be futile.

But they had no more right to their own state than Walloons, or Bretons, or Catalans, or any other minority within a state, and only have one as a direct result of American political and economic assistance. Nobody is denying that they were persecuted on religious grounds, but so were Huguenots in France and Catholics in Ireland. The Kurds have been persecuted on racial and religious grounds but they don't appear to been entitled to their own state. Why the difference?
It is one of the fictions developed by the Nazis that the Jews were a race that led to their persecution on racial grounds. Sadly, the Zionists have developed that racist racial view further. As Kingstonian has pointed out, however, there are significant racial and cultural differences between Ashkenazi Jews and Sephardic and Hasidic Jews, such that it is clear that they are not of a common origin.
 

Earl of Ormonde

Connoisseur
Why has Russia not rolled into Estonia or Latvia?


Why would they re-invade the three Baltic States? Thery pulled out of them in 91. But you are correct about the safety and protection that Nato membership imparts.
Which was why there were two Nato exercises in Georgia in 2012, one outside Tblisi on an old Russian military base, the other one a full-scale military training exercise right on the Russian border, with a combined Georgian-Nato force. I was on one of them. It was simply Georgia saying to Russia, "Look, see these guys training here with us, those are Nato troops!" Georgia is a very open country socially, very pro-west and very keen to become a Nato member. I felt it when I was there, walking around in uniform in the capital city the locals couldn't do enough for us, no threat at all, very relaxed,the Georgians were very keen to make all the Nato, EU and UN officers and troops very welcome. There were even some DHS and Fema officers there, who taught me how to drink Jack Daniels! ;)
 
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Kingstonian

Super Member

Well the ADL and Abe Foxman see anti semitism all over the place.

Finklestein is quite amusing when describing Foxman.

Here is the clip. It is also very powerful stuff "warmongers from Martha's Vineyard, warmongers from The Hamptons etc".

At the same time you need to remember that The Israel Lobby conspired to get him denied tenure at his university.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcWIaYJGlOQ
 
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Acct2000

Connoisseur - Moderator
LOL! Well the US govt officers I was with from the DHS and Fema sipped it slowly over ice! And I can recommend that method....:drunken_smilie:

That is certainly a lot less harsh than drinking it straight.

With all the wonderful beer you have in Europe, it's interesting that you find time to drink other things.

Of course, there is wonderful wine, too. (I'm just a craft beer fan; it's really cool, though when you can get your hands on some of the stuff made in Belgium or some of the other places. Alas, we had a restaurant that had over 200 bottled beers from around the world on their menu locally, but they closed. Sigh.)
 

Earl of Ormonde

Connoisseur
That is certainly a lot less harsh than drinking it straight.

With all the wonderful beer you have in Europe, it's interesting that you find time to drink other things.

Yes, but this wasn't in Europe or a "good beer country" it was in Georgia, where import spirits & import beer are the safest thing to drink. The local watery beer is like American beer, bloody awful. And the Georgian vodka is terrible.
 

justonemore

Elite Member
That is certainly a lot less harsh than drinking it straight.

With all the wonderful beer you have in Europe, it's interesting that you find time to drink other things.

Of course, there is wonderful wine, too. (I'm just a craft beer fan; it's really cool, though when you can get your hands on some of the stuff made in Belgium or some of the other places. Alas, we had a restaurant that had over 200 bottled beers from around the world on their menu locally, but they closed. Sigh.)

The nice thing about shooting Jack straight is that the suffering is done in a few seconds verus being spread out over half an hour. If I have to drink something that sends shivers down my spine (even before it goes in my mouth), I want it done with about the same time it starts. Unless I'm out with much younger collègues, I'll take a beer over the harder stuff any day.
 

Hitch

Super Member
That's a difficult question for anyone to answer Hitch.

Apparently, I have discovered in this thread, merely using the words 'Israel' and 'lobby' can transform one into an anti-semite........


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Every bit as hard as saying yes or no.

Hmmm Israel,, lobby. Did it work?
 
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immanuelrx

Senior Member
Yes, but this wasn't in Europe or a "good beer country" it was in Georgia, where import spirits & import beer are the safest thing to drink. The local watery beer is like American beer, bloody awful. And the Georgian vodka is terrible.

Well that is a reckless blanket statement! I am sure you have tried all American beer and that is how you are able to make such a statement.
 

Chouan

Honors Member
Well that is a reckless blanket statement! I am sure you have tried all American beer and that is how you are able to make such a statement.

Something of a sweeping generalisation I fear. However, in the Earl's defense, nearly all American beer that is sold in Europe is pi$$-poor. I know that there is a wave of micro-breweries setting up in the US and that there are very many good beers and ales being brewed, now. But for as long as I can remember the only US beers easily available have been the usual dreadful stuff, like Bud, etc.
 

SG_67

Connoisseur
You would have to direct this query toward SG_67 for he seems to have the final say-so as to who is, and is not, a hate criminal. ;)

Hardly. Those things are matters of conscience.

I'm simply stating when one compares an open lobbying organization, with a website, IRS filings and regular audits with a shadowy cabal then it's worth considering if there's a hidden meaning.

One can choose to hide behind the term "Israel lobby" if they choose thinking it is safe, but I'm afraid the term has become a surrogate for those who a generation or two ago would have been just as comfortable using the term "Jewish banker conspiracy".

There are those that would suggest that the term "welfare mom" is code for African Americans. Therefore they would suggest that their is still latent racism in this country. I won't argue that point but then it's just as true that there is latent anti semitism remaining in many corners of the world and the term Israel lobby is a code for its expression.

That someone uses it without being an anti Semite does not change what the term has come to imply.
 

Shaver

Suspended
Hardly. Those things are matters of conscience.

I'm simply stating when one compares an open lobbying organization, with a website, IRS filings and regular audits with a shadowy cabal then it's worth considering if there's a hidden meaning.

One can choose to hide behind the term "Israel lobby" if they choose thinking it is safe, but I'm afraid the term has become a surrogate for those who a generation or two ago would have been just as comfortable using the term "Jewish banker conspiracy".

There are those that would suggest that the term "welfare mom" is code for African Americans. Therefore they would suggest that their is still latent racism in this country. I won't argue that point but then it's just as true that there is latent anti semitism remaining in many corners of the world and the term Israel lobby is a code for its expression.

That someone uses it without being an anti Semite does not change what the term has come to imply.

Many lobby groups really are shadowy cabals, that is just the way of the political world, nothing to get too excited about.
 

SG_67

Connoisseur
Many lobby groups really are shadowy cabals, that is just the way of the political world, nothing to get too excited about.

I'm not sure about the shadowy cabal characterization but even if I concede that, few carry the burden of that term quite like Jews and Israel.

I'm suggesting that those looking to use that term had better consider it's deeper and uglier meaning. Of course everyone is free to express himself.

When the term is coupled with the outright controlling of politicians, the political machinery of a state and other nonsense then I think it should invite some scrutiny.
 

Earl of Ormonde

Connoisseur
Well that is a reckless blanket statement! I am sure you have tried all American beer and that is how you are able to make such a statement.
Lighten up dude! Reckless? WTF, I wasn't talking about world poverty!

I was making a lighthearted comparison to American beer in general & its stereotype of being weak & bad. In the same way that most of the plastic-paddies in the USA bleive in the stereotypes that the IRA were fighting a glorious war against the Brtis & that all the Irish eat corned beef & cabbage & that green guinness flows in Dublin on St. Patrick's Day.

Get over yourself!
 
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