The new Spiderman....

VictorRomeo

Super Member
Duel: Tuesday 3:00pm

I've got yer back! - I really liked Watchmen - I mean, it was always going to be a toughie - the graphic novel was amazing and there was no way the movie was going to cut to the depths the book went. But it was a bloody good stab. Moore's work is a favoutite of mine and while he hated the idea of his books moving to the big screen, I'm really glad they did it with Watchment and V for Vendetta. Which incidentally is the best comic/graphic novel ever. Ever. Movie was great too - though I really do understand Moore's position on the matter. Either way, V is my kind of action hero - a brutal anarchist with a gift and predilection for killing fascists.

I like my comics and my Action Hero movies with a heavy distopian slant.

Everything else is just, well, twee.....
 

ZachGranstrom

Super Member
Yes, but like I said earlier, reportedly Fernando Lamas actually said this quote on the Tonight Show....however, I'll change my signature quote if it bothers you so much.
 

andy b.

Senior Member
Actually no, Conan doesn't count, because it was a series of fantasy novels By Robert E. Howard 40 years before it was ever a comic, plus the obvious fact that Conan wasn't a superhero. Unlike Superman, Spiderman etc all with special powers who all started out as comics. I read several Conan novels in the 70s long before I read a Conan comic. I thought both the Conan films were good, I mean how could they not ne good with Arnie in the lead role.

As for the rest of the films you mentioned, yea, they sucked.

Batman doesn't have "special powers".

EDIT- Oops, I see several folks pointed this out.

I forgot another superhero movie (because it wasn't all that great), Ghost Rider.

Andy B.
 
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eagle2250

Connoisseur/Curmudgeon Emeritus - Moderator
Would Roland Deschain, the gunslinger in Stephen King's Dark Tower series, qualify as a "superhero"? Indeed, a genetic predisposition, gifting him with inhuman reflexes and almost super natural instincts, allowed him to successfully combat agents of the mystic and para-normal realms but, his critical sets were not of a nature similar to Superman's or even of a Spider man! :icon_scratch:
 

Earl of Ormonde

Connoisseur
Batman doesn't have "special powers".

EDIT- Oops, I see several folks pointed this out.

I forgot another superhero movie (because it wasn't all that great), Ghost Rider.

Andy B.

No, but I think anyone who wears a costume to go out crimefighting can be classed as a superhero ;)

Ghostrider sucked big time. However, Ghostrider's mate Blade made for a good film.

Did you ever read the Midnight Sons series from Marvel? Apart from Ghostrider and Blade, Morbius also made an appearance. Although Morbius as a vamp himself was keener on rehab for other vamps, wheres Ghostie and Blade(half-vamp) were all about total desturction! ;)
 

Earl of Ormonde

Connoisseur
Would Roland Deschain, the gunslinger in Stephen King's Dark Tower series, qualify as a "superhero"? Indeed, a genetic predisposition, gifting him with inhuman reflexes and almost super natural instincts, allowed him to successfully combat agents of the mystic and para-normal realms but, his critical sets were not of a nature similar to Superman's or even of a Spider man! :icon_scratch:


My understanding is that a superhero has to have his/her own comic book series as the starting point, not novels, which is why I dismiss Conan.

Then we also have everyday heroes in comic books that aren't superheroes and that don't have super powers but might have heightened senses and mental capacities, my favourite in that genre being John Constantine in Hellblazer. A London geezer communing with demons and angels, while enjoying a cig and a pint of Guinness. ;)


(Rather silly that the UK slang word for cigarette that rhymes with bag is censored!!! I mean really, what is the point of that type of censoring, are we not all adults? )
 
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Earl of Ormonde

Connoisseur
We clearly need a working definition for superhero then. As an ISO representative (Swedish Govt SIS expert) I'll kick off with a draft standard in ISO style

Is it:

Proposal A: person who,through their training,skill, mental & physical capacities and equipment achieves great deeds for the benefit of society e.g. Batman, Ironman, Daredevil

OR

Proposal B. person equipped with super (i.e. extra-human) powers for the execution of superhuman deeds for the benefit of society
e.g. Spiderman, Thor, Wolverine

OR simply an amalgam of both.

Proposal C: person who, through their training,skill,mental & physical capacities and equipment or equipped with super (i.e. extra-human) powers achieves great deeds for the benefit of society.

Right I'm happy with C and I'm ready to send a CD (Committee Draft) out to the ISO representatives on the Superhero Working Group for a CD Ballot :)

For me a superhero (as in C) is defined by the good societal deeds he/she carries out regardless of how he/she does so.

I now pass this CD over to the Technical Committee secretariat for preparation of a CD ballot for all Superhero WGs ! ;)
 

JJR512

Super Member
Actually I have to disagree here. Iron man is a superhero, and is the DC equivalent of Batman (uber rich playboy who fights crime, and possesses no actual powers). Innate possession of superpowers does not make one a superhero. Fighting Supervillians does. Batman has his share of Supervillians, therefore he is a Superhero. He hangs out with every other superhero in the DC universe as an equal, because of keen intellect and access to "super powered" equipment.

I'm going to have to disagree with your disagreement.

Random House says a superhero is:
a hero, esp. in children's comic books and television cartoons, possessing extraordinary, often magical powers.

The American Heritage Dictionary says a superhero is:
A figure, especially in a comic strip or cartoon, endowed with superhuman powers and usually portrayed as fighting evil or crime.
(Both from https://dictionary.reference.com/browse/superhero)

And Merriam-Webster says a superhero is:
a fictional hero having extraordinary or superhuman powers; also : an exceptionally skillful or successful person

Finally, for what it's worth, Wikipedia has this to say:
A superhero (sometimes rendered super-hero or super hero) is a type of stock character possessing "extraordinary or superhuman powers" and dedicated to protecting the public.

The Wikipedia article is a bit of a problem, though, because it goes on to say: "By most definitions, characters do not strictly require actual superhuman powers to be deemed superheroes." Oddly, the reference listed for this statement actually quotes the Random House and Merriam-Webster definitions that I just quoted, so I'm not sure how they can say that "most definitions...do not strictly require actual superhuman powers" when, as a reference, they quote two definitions to the contrary.

I understand what you're saying, though. Batman and Iron Man are heroes, certainly, and there's no argument that they are super-duper heroes at that. But they both lack innate supernatural powers, which my interpretation of the various definitions says is a defining characteristic. In fact, I believe the word itself comes from "supernatural + hero".

My familiarity with Iron Man extends only to the first movie; I know nothing of that character beyond that. I'm a bit more familiar with Batman, though, and feel it's worth noting that no Batman villain I can think of has supernatural powers any more than Batman himself does. Dictionary.com and m-w.com don't seem to have definitions for "supervillain", but Wikipedia has an article that says:

Whereas superheroes often wield fantastic powers, the supervillain possesses commensurate powers and abilities so that he can present a daunting challenge to the hero. Even without actual magical or superhuman powers, the supervillain often possesses a genius intellect that allows him to draft complex schemes or create fantastic devices.
It seems that it's more possible to call a villain a supervillain even if he doesn't have any supernatural powers. In fact, it seems to me that a supervillain is defined more in the same way that you want to erroneously define a superhero. You say a superhero is a hero that fights supervillains. But to me, it seems it's more accurate to say that a superhero is a hero with supernatural or superhuman powers, and a supervillain is a villain that fights superheroes, even if the villain doesn't have any actual super powers of his own.

Well, that's just my take on the matter, anyway. I certainly agree that Batman and Iron Man deserve their spot hanging out with the true superheroes.


Batman would no chance in a fight against Superman, just on a side note.
 

Dingo McPhee

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
[Pedantic nerd mode ACTIVATED]

It's two words, hyphenated, both capitalized: Spider-Man.

Also I vote that a superhero is a fictional heroic figure with extraordinary abilities and a distinctive appearance when in hero mode (either a costume/suit or some other physical change like the Hulk or Ghost Rider).
 

Apatheticviews

Super Member
I think "Extraordinary" is enough to classify one as a Superhero, as do most reference sources listed. That said the following people would be classified as Superheroes, even though they do not possess actual innate powers.

Captain America (No actual powers, but classified as the Height of human power)
Batman (Training & Equipment)
Iron Man (Powered Suit)
Dr. Strange (Mystical Training)
 

Apatheticviews

Super Member
It seems that it's more possible to call a villain a supervillain even if he doesn't have any supernatural powers. In fact, it seems to me that a supervillain is defined more in the same way that you want to erroneously define a superhero. You say a superhero is a hero that fights supervillains. But to me, it seems it's more accurate to say that a superhero is a hero with supernatural or superhuman powers, and a supervillain is a villain that fights superheroes, even if the villain doesn't have any actual super powers of his own.

Well, that's just my take on the matter, anyway. I certainly agree that Batman and Iron Man deserve their spot hanging out with the true superheroes.


Batman would no chance in a fight against Superman, just on a side note.

Let's try this instead. Superheroes & Supervillains are nothing more than extensions of the Hero/Villain relationship within a Extraordinary or Superpowered setting. Therefore either the villain or the hero can possess superpowers/extraordinary abilities, which in turn makes the other a superX.

As for BW vs CC. Don't forget Batman ALWAYS has Kryptonite. BW fights dirty, and CC would never use his heat ray vision to strike at a distance, being the ultimate boyscout. Now I do agree Superman has the potential to take down Batman... But lacks the willingness to use the tools at his disposal to actually do so. Batman however has absolutely no qualms about taking down Superman if he gets in the way.
 
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