official Trad Forum Renaming: Looking for suggestions

iam.mike

Partner / Administrator
Staff member
I did some google searches and it seems "American Traditional" correlates to tattoos more than anything else.

I'm leaning toward: American Trad Style

If you Google that, you'll see lots of content that directly correlates to the subjects/topics discussed in this sub-community.
 

Vecchio Vespa

(aka TKI67)
The Google captures such diversity of meanings as to border on useless for defining a word. Google "trad" and jazz and rock climbing are among the top hits. I won't even dignify the matter by pulling in the urban dictionary. 🤪
 

rl1856

Senior Member
It's time for a change my friend. The name will be changed.

I figured I'd ask the community first to see if there were any name suggestions that members preferred more. If not, Andy & I will decide.

Why is it time for a change ?

Consider that a BB or JPress 3r2 natural shoulder sack is just as timelessly stylish today as it was back in the day....and if someone were to wear a vintage 3r2 today they would likely be complimented for their attire.

I submit that the name "Trad Forum" is sufficient for the needs of those posting, as well as accurately describing why this forum is different from others hosted by the same owners. I see no factor in the current name that inhibits free exchange of opinions regarding what is an is not "Trad". We can discuss the OPH and its influence, with the same enthusiasm as we praise the watercolor style of catalogues from BB c1980, or the seasonal print ads from JPress c1960. The three are clearly distinct from each other, but each have their place inside the Trad Tent (100% Military Surplus Canvas, supported by vintage bamboo poles, and flying a Fraternal Organization, or Club Pennant from it's peak).
 

Fading Fast

Connoisseur
I did some google searches and it seems "American Traditional" correlates to tattoos more than anything else.

I'm leaning toward: American Trad Style

If you Google that, you'll see lots of content that directly correlates to the subjects/topics discussed in this sub-community.

The Google captures such diversity of meanings as to border on useless for defining a word. Google "trad" and jazz and rock climbing are among the top hits. I won't even dignify the matter by pulling in the urban dictionary. 🤪

I like "American Traditional," but respect what Mike found. However, as is often the case today, TK167 brings up a good point too.

Part of the answer lies in the goal of the name. Is it for people who've already found AAAC? Or, is it so that new people can find AAAC? If you search "something clothes" and not "something tattoos," will "American Traditional" help people find AAAC? To wit, I'm interested in classic American attire and wonder if there are any websites devoted to it; hence, chances are I'll search something with the word "clothes" or "attire" or "suits" in it which would eliminate the tattoo issue.

All just thoughts.
 

Intrepid

Super Member
OK, you are apparently determined to change something, just for the sake of change. Go back and see how it worked out when Coke came out with "New coke". How about a title that keeps out those who have no idea what the theme of the forum is really about. Such as the the nit wt that posted several years ago wanting to know what kind of apples are Trad. Call it something like" 3r2...OCBD ...LHS."
 

Oldsarge

Moderator and Bon Vivant
Someone who went to college in the '50's would be at the youngest 79. Now come on, who among us can really claim to be part of that? The current daydream of the '50's is just that, a daydream. I was there and it wasn't all that great, even for 5-12 year olds. What is the Trad style, really? Did veterans coming back for the GI Bill really have the money for sack suits and OCBD's? It's the fashion for legacy Ivy Leaguers and those who envy them. So call the fashion Ivy and let it go at that.
 

Vecchio Vespa

(aka TKI67)
OK, you are apparently determined to change something, just for the sake of change. Go back and see how it worked out when Coke came out with "New coke". How about a title that keeps out those who have no idea what the theme of the forum is really about. Such as the the nit wt that posted several years ago wanting to know what kind of apples are Trad. Call it something like" 3r2...OCBD ...LHS."

Or GTH.

Sorry, no impulse control.

Really, Trad apples? In the heyday of Trad it was Delicious or Golden Delicious. Yuck.
 

drpeter

Super Member
Here's my 2 cents worth: I feel the name should simply be left as it is now. If we absolutely must, perhaps Trad Style would be a reasonable choice.

I have mixed feelings about American Traditional: On the one hand, those of us who are Americans can take pride in the style that was an integral part of our culture in the last century and continues to have some resonance even now in dressing. On the other hand, there are many Europeans and Japanese, and perhaps men in other parts of the world who are followers of Trad styles in their clothing, and continue to keep its details alive in their own dressing, and in discussions on the internet. The reissue of Take Ivy was mainly a Japanese venture. W David Mark's Ametora is a recent work that talks about this Japanese segment of Trad style. I do not know if there are significant numbers of overseas (British, Continental or Asian) members of AAAC. Or how they feel about this name change. I hope they respond here.
 
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drpeter

Super Member
It's time for a change my friend. The name will be changed.

I figured I'd ask the community first to see if there were any name suggestions that members preferred more. If not, Andy & I will decide.
This is a respectful, polite question, @mikel it is in no way meant to be rude. But may I ask why it is time for a change? Have there been problems or issues with the current name? Have members complained about it? Just so I understand.
 

drpeter

Super Member
Another name, if we must: Ivy League Style. I thought of this because I run into that label often when people talk about Trad style. And the Ivy League campuses were the starting point of this way of dressing, weren't they?
 

Fading Fast

Connoisseur
Here's my 2 cents worth: I feel the name should simply be left as it is now. If we absolutely must, perhaps Trad Style would be a reasonable choice.

I have mixed feelings about American Traditional: On the one hand, those of us who are Americans can take pride in the style that was an integral part of our culture in the last century and continues to have some resonance even now in dressing. On the other hand, there are many Europeans and Japanese, and perhaps men in other parts of the world who are followers of Trad styles in their clothing, and continue to keep its details alive in their own dressing, and in discussions on the internet. The reissue of Take Ivy was mainly a Japanese venture. W David Mark's Ametora is a recent work that talks about this Japanese segment of Trad style. I do not know if there are significant numbers of overseas (British, Continental or Asian) members of AAAC. Or how they feel about this name change. I hope they respond here.

⇧ Good post. My thought on the "American" in American Traditional is to reflect the American locus of the style when it was forming, not to just stamp "American" on it for ownership.

Kinda the way we call a certain stye of food in America "Italian" even though (I'm told) a lot of it is food that doesn't exist in Italy as Americans, over generations, have taken the Italian core style and created an offshoot.

Similarly, the Japanese, as per Marx's book, came to America to, first, copy the American clothing style ("Take Ivy") and, then, clearly built and expanded on it in a wonderful way.
 

rl1856

Senior Member
OK, you are apparently determined to change something, just for the sake of change. Go back and see how it worked out when Coke came out with "New coke". How about a title that keeps out those who have no idea what the theme of the forum is really about. Such as the the nit wt that posted several years ago wanting to know what kind of apples are Trad. Call it something like" 3r2...OCBD ...LHS."

Coke is an interesting case study in how public perception and business results are often diametrically opposed. Perception is New Coke was a mis managed debacle; a failure. Coke later reintroduced original Coke, so that it was sold alongside New Coke. What was interesting is that total Coke market share, and gross revenue increased after original Coke was brought back.....the failure helped to company to expand their share of the market. From an income and shareholder stand point, the company succeeded. From a PR standpoint they failed.
 

drpeter

Super Member
⇧ Good post. My thought on the "American" in American Traditional is to reflect the American locus of the style when it was forming, not to just stamp "American" on it for ownership.

Kinda the way we call a certain stye of food in America "Italian" even though (I'm told) a lot of it is food that doesn't exist in Italy as Americans, over generations, have taken the Italian core style and created an offshoot.

Similarly, the Japanese, as per Marx's book, came to America to, first, copy the American clothing style ("Take Ivy") and, then, clearly built and expanded on it in a wonderful way.
True, all good points. But consider:

Trad was not exactly born in America. The Americans themselves took almost every one of the items that are inherent in Trad style from the British! The OCBD shirt (Brooks Brothers copied this from English polo players), the three-button undarted, soft-shoulder jacket (the No.1 Sack Suit introduced by BB circa 1895, likely based on British styling, with frock coats getting shorter and losing some of their buttons), Harris tweed jackets, Shetland sweaters, argyle socks, polo coats, rep ties (another way of denoting British regimental stripes and colours), khakis and so forth. BB became a purveyor of English clothing and the English country gentleman style in America. This Anglocentric style of clothing fitted very well into East Coast (New England) establishment circles, whose young men went to the Ivy league universities. So, by rights maybe, we should call this the Anglo-American style, LOL. Even in the later days of Trad, there has been an English influence on American clothing that was significant, and the basic Trad look is still evident in some of the English tailoring houses, most notably the natural-shoulder suits of Anderson and Sheppard, what they call the English Drape Cut. And even now, you can see the English influence in many blogs -- for example the excellent Salt Water New England blog created by Ms Muffy Aldrich. In sum, Trad owes much of its origins to a certain type of English style.

These are some of the reasons I think we should be a tad more inclusive when re-naming this forum, if indeed it must be renamed..
 
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Fading Fast

Connoisseur
True, all good points. But consider:

Trad was not exactly born in America. The Americans themselves took almost every one of the items that are inherent in Trad style from the British! The OCBD shirt (Brooks Brothers copied this from English polo players), the three-button undarted, soft-shoulder jacket (the No.1 Sack Suit introduced by BB circa 1895, likely based on British styling, with frock coats getting shorter and losing some of their buttons), Harris tweed jackets, Shetland sweaters, argyle socks, polo coats, rep ties (another way of denoting British regimental stripes and colours), khakis and so forth. BB became a purveyor of English clothing and the English country gentleman style in America. This Anglocentric style of clothing fitted very well into East Coast (New England) establishment circles, whose young men went to the Ivy league universities. So, by rights maybe, we should call this the Anglo-American style, LOL. Even in the later days of Trad, there has been an English influence on American clothing that was significant, and the basic Trad look is still evident in some of the English tailoring houses, most notably the natural-shoulder suits of Anderson and Sheppard, what they call the English Drape Cut. And even now, you can see the English influence in many blogs -- for example the excellent Salt Water New England blog created by Ms Muffy Aldrich. In sum, Trad owes much of its origins to a certain type of English style.

These are some of the reasons I think we should be a tad more inclusive when re-naming this forum, if indeed it must be renamed..

Sincerely, I was going to mention the English roots in my last post and, then, thought that the core essence is the way it came together in America.

I don't give a hoot about it being called "American" as a pride thing - I just don't. There are certain cuts and styles of clothing that we call Italian that, I'm just guessing, have, by now, many mixed in influences that aren't all Italian, but we all kinda know what we mean when we say the clothing style is "Italian."

I agree with all our wrote about the influences and think all those points are spot on and an important part of the American Tradition story, just like Japan's incredible now seventy-year contribution is to the style. No name is perfect and today we sometimes worry too much about every possible slight.

Italian food or clothing style, the English stiff upper lip, etc. all could be challenged as not accurate or all inclusive, but if we are honest, we all also know what they mean.
 
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drpeter

Super Member
Sincerely, I was going to mention the English roots in my last post and, then, thought that the core essence is the way it came together in America.

I don't give a hoot about it being called "American" as a pride thing - I just don't. There are certain cuts and styles of clothing that we call Italian that, I'm just guessing, have, by now, many mixed in influences that aren't all Italian, but we all kinda know what we mean when we say the clothing style is "Italian."

I agree with all our wrote about the influences and think all those points are spot on and an important part of the American Tradition story, just like Japan's incredible now seventy-year contribution is to the style. No name is perfect and today we sometimes worry too much about every possible slight.

Italian food or clothing style, the English stiff upper lip, etc. all could be challenged as not accurate or all inclusive, but if we are honest, we all also know what they mean.
Well said. I agree that we can refer to styles, cuisines and even demeanor or practice (the Gallic shrug? Gasconading? Going Dutch?) by national or regional names. In that sense, American Traditional would not pose a problem. My concern is with denoting the entire forum using a name with a national reference. This is why I thought something like Trad Style would be appropriate -- it anchors the core essence in a look cultivated mainly by men with an Ivy League connection, which seems to be the heart of the Trad look. And without bringing in a national reference. But I'll leave it to the majority here, I don't have huge problems with any of the suggested names -- well, maybe not Trad Apples, LOL.
 

Vecchio Vespa

(aka TKI67)
I like the Anglo-American idea and agree there are deep roots in Britain. I find it interesting, however, that mention of British style evokes in my imagination navy suits with suppressed waists and double vents, trousers without cuffs, black oxfords, spread collar shirts with French cuffs, and highly fashionable ties, all lovely but not appealing to certain American Trads, even though they love their Shetland sweaters and Barbour coats. We are an enigmatic group with several subgroups.
 
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