Fading Fast

Connoisseur
The film noir movie "To Deep for Tears" from '49 (comments on movie here #372 ) has a lot of "big" late '40s clothes. It was clearly made just before Ivy started to take off. That said, this jacket popped up and I was wondering if anyone knows what kind of pattern it is:
too_late_for_tears.jpg

If you enlarge the pic, you'll see that it's got one "stripe" of boxes with a vertical (twill) pattern inside and another "stripe" with (what I think is) nailhead. So some combining and "breaking" of the patterns.

That said, I'm just guessing but thought someone like our very knowledgable @Matt S might know?

Thank you.

Some other clothing pics from the movie:
lizabeth-scott-don-defore-too-late-for-tears-1949-BPAH69.jpg
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Matt S

Connoisseur
The film noir movie "To Deep for Tears" from '49 (comments on movie here #372 ) has a lot of "big" late '40s clothes. It was clearly made just before Ivy started to take off. That said, this jacket popped up and I was wondering if anyone knows what kind of pattern it is:
View attachment 45184
If you enlarge the pic, you'll see that it's got one "stripe" of boxes with a vertical (twill) pattern inside and another "stripe" with (what I think is) nailhead. So some combining and "breaking" of the patterns.

That said, I'm just guessing but thought someone like our very knowledgable @Matt S might know?

Thank you.

Some other clothing pics from the movie:
View attachment 45186 View attachment 45189 View attachment 45187
That pattern is a combination of a barleycorn weave and a broken diamond twill weave. That must be one complicated weave to set up! It's rather busy for my tastes to wear, but it would make for nice drapes.
 

Fading Fast

Connoisseur
If I can impose on @Matt S again, I'd love to know the pattern in this outstanding sport coat worn by Leslie Howard in 1936's "The Petrified Forest"
MV5BMTkyOTI5NDU4MF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMjI5MTUyNw@@._V1_SY1000_CR0,0,1319,1000_AL_.jpg
1936-film-title-petrified-forest-director-archie-mayo-studio-warner-F6HAM3.jpg
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And a rare quote from Mr. Howard, "Matt, what pattern is this in my sport coat" Thank you, LH"
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Matt S

Connoisseur
If I can impose on @Matt S again, I'd love to know the pattern in this outstanding sport coat worn by Leslie Howard in 1936's "The Petrified Forest"
View attachment 45285 View attachment 45291 View attachment 45293

And a rare quote from Mr. Howard, "Matt, what pattern is this in my sport coat" Thank you, LH"
View attachment 45294
You've stumped me! I've never seen this pattern before, but it's some type of birdseye. It's not the standard birdseye suiting that you see all the time, but it looks like a more complex variation on that. It's a fascinating pattern up close.

I also like how he's folding back his shirt cuffs. It was a popular thing to do in movies. I used to do that before I got button cuffs that were designed to fold back!
 

Flanderian

Connoisseur
If I can impose on @Matt S again, I'd love to know the pattern in this outstanding sport coat worn by Leslie Howard in 1936's "The Petrified Forest"
View attachment 45285 View attachment 45291 View attachment 45293

And a rare quote from Mr. Howard, "Matt, what pattern is this in my sport coat" Thank you, LH"
View attachment 45294
To me, it looks as if it might be a version of what I know as a pheasant's eye tweed. I came by that nomenclature via Paul Stuart who from time to time has had tweeds made up in that pattern.


Pheasant's Eye Tweed.jpg



 

Fading Fast

Connoisseur
You've stumped me! I've never seen this pattern before, but it's some type of birdseye. It's not the standard birdseye suiting that you see all the time, but it looks like a more complex variation on that. It's a fascinating pattern up close.

I also like how he's folding back his shirt cuffs. It was a popular thing to do in movies. I used to do that before I got button cuffs that were designed to fold back!
To me, it looks as if it might be a version of what I know as a pheasant's eye tweed. I came by that nomenclature via Paul Stuart who from time to time has had tweeds made up in that pattern.


View attachment 45307



Thank you guys. It seems like Pheasant Eye Tweed is the answer (awesome pic of Coleman too). It looks like a beautiful pattern, I'd love to see one IRL.

Matt, I, too, noticed the folded back shirt cuffs. For the day, 1936, Howard's outfit - the clothes themselves, how he wears them (tie down, for example) and carries himself (hands casually tucked into side pockets, for example) - is a study in indifferent nonchalance that perfectly fits his character.
 

Flanderian

Connoisseur
Thank you guys. It seems like Pheasant Eye Tweed is the answer (awesome pic of Coleman too). It looks like a beautiful pattern, I'd love to see one IRL.

Matt, I, too, noticed the folded back shirt cuffs. For the day, 1936, Howard's outfit - the clothes themselves, how he wears them (tie down, for example) and carries himself (hands casually tucked into side pockets, for example) - is a study in indifferent nonchalance that perfectly fits his character.
Presumably, that may be a correct term, though the weave pattern of Howard's jacket appears to be smaller. If my failing memory serves, I was informed of its name via the description for a photo in a Paul Stuart catalog. And I think that pattern was larger yet. Should I come across it, I will see if I can scan it, and post it here.
 

Fading Fast

Connoisseur
Presumably, that may be a correct term, though the weave pattern of Howard's jacket appears to be smaller. If my failing memory serves, I was informed of its name via the description for a photo in a Paul Stuart catalog. And I think that pattern was larger yet. Should I come across it, I will see if I can scan it, and post it here.
Good stuff and thank you. I would think a pattern could come in different sizes/scale - think herringbone. I Googled the term and it seems to be a real not just Paul Stuart pattern name.
 

Fading Fast

Connoisseur
I have "King Kong" from '33 on in the background and it's amazing how many Trad clothes are in it.

Check out the man's and woman's Polo coats, plus the pea coat (sorry, these were the best pics I could find):
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And this awesome very '30s Tweed suit:
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Lastly, note actress Fay Wray wearing an all white dress on a filthy tramp steamer. She, oddly, isn't worried about getting her nice dress dirty, but was concerned enough about her clothes getting mess up that she decided to not wear a bra:
86a8dffb7d436d875a61dca4014569a0--king-kong--fay-wray.jpg
 
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eagle2250

Connoisseur/Curmudgeon Emeritus - Moderator
I have "King Kong" from '33 on in the background and it's amazing how many Trad clothes are in it.

Check out the man's and woman's Polo coats, plus the pea coat (sorry, these were the best pics I could find):
View attachment 46042 View attachment 46043


Lastly, note actress Fay Wray wearing an all white dress on a filthy tramp steamer. She, oddly, isn't worried about getting her nice dress dirty, but was concerned enough about her clothes getting mess up that she decided to not wear a bra:
View attachment 46049
She may be not wearing a bra, but she does appear to be wearing the latest in women's fashion(s) "Stemmed Teacups!" Rather appealing, I think. ;)
 

Fading Fast

Connoisseur
From the movie "The Gentlemen" (comments here #402 ). While only some of the clothes are Trad, many have echoes or elements or Trad.

And for starters, check out this looks-like-it-came-from-Ben-Silver getup:
image-2.jpeg


And some more fun ones from the movie (1st pic, overcoat left - very '30s Apparel Arts):
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Pretty classic-looking Macintosh ⇩
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Fading Fast

Connoisseur
On TCM now - and on in the backroom as I work - is the 1927 silent "Spring Fever," which seems to be all about young rich people playing golf and flirting heavily (a guess from the little I've seen).

But here's the thing, the movie looks like a Ralph Lauren advertisement forty years before there was a Ralph Lauren company.

The clothes are "Ralph" country club and golf perfect. I had a friend who worked for Ralph Lauren for years and she said they went back to the books, magazines, movies, etc., of the '20s ad '30s for "inspiration" all the time. I'd bet this movie was part of that inspiration.

These pics from the movie all but look like Ralph Lauren ads.
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Oh, and that is a ridiculously young (24 years old) Joan Crawford.
 

Fading Fast

Connoisseur
Cross post with the Tweed thread.

On mute in the background on TCM right now is the outstanding 1945 British film "Brief Encounter."

There are a lot of cool clothes in it (note the overcoats in the pics below) including several neat Tweeds back when Tweeds were just regular-people clothing.

So far, these are the best pics I could find. Her suit is outstanding and looks better on screen than in the pics.

Brief Encounter (1945).mkv_snapshot_00.25.39_[2012.07.30_00.52.06].jpg

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Fading Fast

Connoisseur
Despite the movie being filmed in 1969, when the Hippie '60s was in full flower, Rock Hudson's wardrobe in "A Fine Pair" is very '60s Ivy.

He wears a sack suit with a white OCBD and nondescript tie for a chunk of it. Unfortunately, I couldn't find a good pic of it and, while I know it doesn't quite look like it here, on screen, the suit looks flannel.
rock-hudson-claudia-cardinale-a-fine-pair-1968-CC757E.jpg
rock-hudson-claudia-cardinale-a-fine-pair-1968-CC757G.jpg


Over that suit, he wears a very sixties narrow-lapel raglan-sleeved Tweed overcoat:
MV5BYmZiMzA3Y2QtZDA2OC00MzM3LTk5NWItNzUxNTczN2Y5M2Y0XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyODQzNTYxODQ@._V1_.jpg

MV5BNzAwODJkZWUtM2MxZS00MDY2LWExNjgtNzhiYzgzM2EzOGUxXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyODQzNTYxODQ@._V1_.jpg


Later on, he also sports a polo coat nicely accessorized with Claudia Cardinali:
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Finally, he wears this classic Shearling:
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And, Claudia herself wears this neat raglan-sleeved herringbone tweed overcoat
MV5BOWYxOWMwZTAtYjA1OS00OGI0LThlMmQtYTk3ODRjY2Q4NWY0XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyODQzNTYxODQ@._V1_.jpg
 
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drpeter

Senior Member
Cross post with the Tweed thread.

On mute in the background on TCM right now is the outstanding 1945 British film "Brief Encounter."

There are a lot of cool clothes in it (note the overcoats in the pics below) including several neat Tweeds back when Tweeds were just regular-people clothing.

So far, these are the best pics I could find. Her suit is outstanding and looks better on screen than in the pics.

View attachment 47521
View attachment 47522 View attachment 47523 View attachment 47524 View attachment 47525
It's a beautiful film. It's a study of two people who relate in a quiet but unconventional way within the strictures of a society that is strongly bound up with class and tradition. Quite unlike the large-scale dramas of David Lean's later years. And for once, Trevor Howard isn't swaggering the way he does when playing a lot of his later characters (from Major Calloway in The Third Man to Captain Bligh in Mutiny on the Bounty). Nice stills, @Fading Fast!
 

Fading Fast

Connoisseur
It's a beautiful film. It's a study of two people who relate in a quiet but unconventional way within the strictures of a society that is strongly bound up with class and tradition. Quite unlike the large-scale dramas of David Lean's later years. And for once, Trevor Howard isn't swaggering the way he does when playing a lot of his later characters (from Major Calloway in The Third Man to Captain Bligh in Mutiny on the Bounty). Nice stills, @Fading Fast!
I agree, it's a wonderful movie, very real to life.

Have you seen David Lean's "Madeliene" or "The Passionate Friends?" (Comments on "Madeliene" here #26641 and "The Passionate Friends" here #26694.)

Both are outstanding efforts and closer to "Brief Encounter" in style than Lean's later efforts like "Dr. Zhivoago" or "Lawrence of Arabia."
 

drpeter

Senior Member
I agree, it's a wonderful movie, very real to life.

Have you seen David Lean's "Madeliene" or "The Passionate Friends?" (Comments on "Madeliene" here #26641 and "The Passionate Friends" here #26694.)

Both are outstanding efforts and closer to "Brief Encounter" in style than Lean's later efforts like "Dr. Zhivoago" or "Lawrence of Arabia."
Yes, I've heard of both of those films, but no, I have not seen either. Thank you for pointing them out to me, I'll look for them on TCM and other sources. The way you describe them, they are certainly more like Brief Encounter. Like many an auteur director, Lean seems to have assembled a set of actors whom he used in multiple films, like Ann Todd and Trevor Howard.

The early David Lean reminds me of another great director whose films I absolutely love: Yasujiro Ozu, the pre-eminent Japanese director of the last century -- in my opinion, even more powerful than Akira Kurosawa. Ozu is a director who works on a small scale and explores intimate human relationships. A meticulous artist who understands how to use subtext, he is a master at evoking emotion and at artful elision. Tokyo Story is consistently on my list of top ten films of all time. Early Spring, and his last venture, An Autumn Afternoon, are both very fine films. Ozu's films don't play as well to mainstream Western audiences as Kurosawa's because they are seen as slow -- this is mainly because they are used to the faster pace and more dramatic tone of Hollywood films.

Side note: A large number of Ozu's films, mostly silent films from the early twentieth century, were destroyed during the Allied bombing raids of Tokyo in WWII. A sad case of collateral damage, and a loss to those of us who love his films. I keep hoping someone will discover a trove of prints that somehow survived the bombing!
 

Fading Fast

Connoisseur
I've never seen 1982's "Best Friends" but I had it on, on mute, in the background this morning (looks like a typical schmaltzy early '80s couples-love-each-other-but-fight-a-lot movie).

Burt Reynolds' character wears a bunch of Trad clothes in it.

Despite the late '60s and '70s style broadside, classic attire was still quite common in the '80s (and '90s and, even, the '00s).

A grey herringbone sport coat, OCBD and conservative tie (sorry, best pic of it I could find).
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A '50s-style college scarf.
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And a trenchcoat.
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