Skipperino

New Member
Well; there is obviously a version of black tie where the jacket is off-white, (plus a tendency towards wear of cummerbunds rather than weskits)...so my question for the more historically minded denizems on AA is...why isn't there a version like this for semi-formal day wear? Or would the equivalent back in the day just have been a lightweight linen suit, cut the same? Also, on that note, why isn't there one for white tie or morning dress? I've certainly seen pictures of men in the mid to late Victorian era sporting frock coats in warmer climes that were light coloured and presumably made out of linen or seersucker or some other light fabric, so it's surprising somewhat that this hasn't carried on to the morning coat.
 

Matt S

Connoisseur
Dressing for warm weather in England rarely crossed people's minds until a couple decades ago. The off-white dinner jacket was intended for wear in colonies and never in England. In the early 20th century the backless waistcoat became popular for warmer weather for evening wear.

There is a warm-weather version of morning dress: the grey morning suit. It is typically made in a lighter cloth (like a 12-14 oz wool instead of an 18 oz, though now everything is lighter). People traditionally wore heavy suits year-round in England. If a traditional English tailor made a suit of a lightweight cloth, the innards were still heavy.

People weren't wearing black lounge (the English name for the Stroller) in the colonies. They were wearing linen suits during the day and ivory dinner jackets at night. There was never a need for a colonial version of white tie apart from the backless waistcoat since people didn't have as much need for dressing as formally in the colonies. The ivory dinner jacket (and black or midnight blue mohair dinner jackets) would have been enough.
 

Oldsarge

Moderator and Bon Vivant
Frock coats were the uniform of capitalists in the U.S. until the early XX Century when they were replaced by the lounge suit. While frock coats do exist as part of formal wear, unless you have a need for formal wear (a regular at Ascot?) they're pretty much costume. Amusing but . . . odd.
 

richard warren

Senior Member
There is reason to believe that the type of people who would have worn morning suits as every day attire in England or the northern US in the last 19th and early 20th centuries would have worn white linen suits in the less temperate parts of the British Empire or the southern US.
 

Skipperino

New Member
Frock coats were the uniform of capitalists in the U.S. until the early XX Century when they were replaced by the lounge suit. While frock coats do exist as part of formal wear, unless you have a need for formal wear (a regular at Ascot?) they're pretty much costume. Amusing but . . . odd.
What I'm getting at as regards the frock coat is asking why there was a ''hot climate" version of the frock coat -as the various mid-19th century photographs of men dressed in linen frockcoats in sub- and tropical climates can testify. I'll see if I can find a few and post links.
 

eagle2250

Connoisseur/Curmudgeon Emeritus - Moderator
^^
There is just something almost magical about central Florida that persuades a fair number of we sartorial 'stick in the mud's' to relax our wardrobing standards to make way in our closets for just one more Hawaiian shirt! Tori Richards is my kind of formal wear designer! LOL. ;)
 

Hebrew Barrister

Senior Member
^^
There is just something almost magical about central Florida that persuades a fair number of we sartorial 'stick in the mud's' to relax our wardrobing standards to make way in our closets for just one more Hawaiian shirt! Tori Richards is my kind of formal wear designer! LOL. ;)
I am originally from South Florida. Go south enough and the Hawaiian shirts turn into guyaberas, which I admit when can look quite nice when wisely chosen.
 

eagle2250

Connoisseur/Curmudgeon Emeritus - Moderator
I've a couple of Barong's (shirts made in the Philippines that look very similar to guyaberas) in my closet Prior to moving to Florida, I was never able to get myself to go out of the house with my shirt tail hanging out! :crazy:
 

Flanderian

Connoisseur
Eagle in his youth. (Note whitewalls!:eek:)

^^....
........and Eagle today (note that I still have the whitewalls!)? :crazy: Aging and life can really wilt the petals from the bloom on the rose! LOL. View attachment 31192

PS: Those are not 'man-boobs, but rather a wallet in the right pocket and an iphone in the left! Just sayin.... ;):(:crazy:
You know, disregarding the cultural dislocation of that shirt's aesthetic, viewed strictly as an object, and whether it's flattering to the wearer, that ain't a bad looking shirt. In the right setting (Preferably after a substantial apertiff!) I might be able to persuade myself I could wear a shirt like the young man's to the right function.
 

eagle2250

Connoisseur/Curmudgeon Emeritus - Moderator
Barong's are cool and very comfortable shirts to wear in a hot, humid environment. The one pictured in your post #12, above, is pretty heavily embroidered and there ones a lot less fancy for day to day wear. I'm not real sure at what point design details define a shirt as a Barong or as a guayabers? However the heavily embroidered, fancy 'Dan's' can certainly be tropical climate formal wear! ;)
 

Skipperino

New Member
I must admit I was always surprised there has never been a version of the stroller that didn't feature a waistcoat --a la black tie worn with a cummerbund (I'm not including DB strollers in that).

Personally; if it ever gets to hot at work (I work in an office), I wore a kind of buff/tan linen suit without waistcoat. I've got a few Hawaiian shirts I would wear (not to work!) if the temperature finds itself subtropical.
 

culverwood

Super Member
I always thought of the stroller as office uniform early in the 20th century not something one would wear at any social occasion. As such that there is no tropical version does not surprise me. Perhaps your colonial district commissioner might have some form of uniform but it would have been khaki and probably even without a jacket.
 

Matt S

Connoisseur
I always thought of the stroller as office uniform early in the 20th century not something one would wear at any social occasion. As such that there is no tropical version does not surprise me. Perhaps your colonial district commissioner might have some form of uniform but it would have been khaki and probably even without a jacket.
It was primarily and office uniform, but in the mid to late 20th Century it was worn for weddings.
 
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