JBierly

Advanced Member
The concept of drop is a bit artificial amongst Italian tailoring companies.

In principle, the concept is the same of UK/US sizing but applied to half-measures of chest and waist. For example: a size 50 (100 cm = 40'' chest) in a drop 6 will come with trousers having half waist measuring 50 - 6 = 44 cm, that is to say a total waist of 88 cm = about 34.5''.

In the practice the term drop is more often used to classify the overall fit of the jacket, in particular shoulder-chest-waist ration. This use is unfortunately not formalised and varies from maker to maker but as a guide:

drop 4 = stout figure/portly fit
drop 6 = regular figure/classic fit (normal shoulders, normal waist)
drop 7 = slim figure/tailored fit (narrow shoulders, narrow waist)
drop 8 = athletic figure/slim fit (wide shoulder, very narrow waist)

It is very difficult to give general rules as they change from maker to maker. Most houses label each of their pattern blocks by the drop number so this becomes more an indicator of fit than size in these cases.
That makes sense - of course the one disconnect is that in us sizing the trousers are labelled so a suit in size 42 will usually have trousers with a labelled 36 waist (or 35 if the cut is more athletic.) If you don't know the drop on the Euro sized clothing then sometimes its a surprise. And then of course there is size inflation and differences in cuts. In order to successfully order things online it helps to have exact measurements, to know what you are ordering through experience with that manufacturer, and finally to have an easy return policy. Of course, nothing works better than trying it on first!
 

Mathematicus

New Member
That makes sense - of course the one disconnect is that in us sizing the trousers are labelled so a suit in size 42 will usually have trousers with a labelled 36 waist (or 35 if the cut is more athletic.) If you don't know the drop on the Euro sized clothing then sometimes its a surprise. And then of course there is size inflation and differences in cuts. In order to successfully order things online it helps to have exact measurements, to know what you are ordering through experience with that manufacturer, and finally to have an easy return policy. Of course, nothing works better than trying it on first!
In my experience European metric sizing is far more inconsistent than imperial sizing. I don't know why, maybe it could have to do with the relatively late diffusion of RTW and standard made production in Italy (not really widespread until late 70s), which eventually had to copy the foreign well established models of production.

Also while I noticed that in UK the sizing system Chest+stature/ Waist+length is virtually universal for any brand of any segment of the market, in Italy sizing systems vary wildly between brands and even between department stores carrying the same brand. In most lower-to-middle end tailoring stores stature and drop are not even considered part of the size (that is to say, the garments are produced in an predetermined stature).

In the Sixties they tried to introduce the German sizing system which accounted for stature by doubling or halving (e.g. 50 = 40R, 100 = 40L, 25 = 40S) but in the end it was a colossal FIASCO, so much that if you ask a random sales assistant about a size 25 he/she won't have any idea of what you are talking about.

I like to ascribe all of these inconstistencies to the natural repellency to any "general organisational principle" of the average Italian (myself included)...
 

JBierly

Advanced Member
In my experience European metric sizing is far more inconsistent than imperial sizing. I don't know why, maybe it could have to do with the relatively late diffusion of RTW and standard made production in Italy (not really widespread until late 70s), which eventually had to copy the foreign well established models of production.

Also while I noticed that in UK the sizing system Chest+stature/ Waist+length is virtually universal for any brand of any segment of the market, in Italy sizing systems vary wildly between brands and even between department stores carrying the same brand. In most lower-to-middle end tailoring stores stature and drop are not even considered part of the size (that is to say, the garments are produced in an predetermined stature).

In the Sixties they tried to introduce the German sizing system which accounted for stature by doubling or halving (e.g. 50 = 40R, 100 = 40L, 25 = 40S) but in the end it was a colossal FIASCO, so much that if you ask a random sales assistant about a size 25 he/she won't have any idea of what you are talking about.

I like to ascribe all of these inconstistencies to the natural repellency to any "general organisational principle" of the average Italian (myself included)...
Hilarious - so Italians - under organized, Germans - over organized. I can see that - both viewpoints have their advantages and advocates.
 

Matt S

Connoisseur
The concept of drop is a bit artificial amongst Italian tailoring companies.

In principle, the concept is the same of UK/US sizing but applied to half-measures of chest and waist. For example: a size 50 (100 cm = 40'' chest) in a drop 6 will come with trousers having half waist measuring 50 - 6 = 44 cm, that is to say a total waist of 88 cm = about 34.5''.

In the practice the term drop is more often used to classify the overall fit of the jacket, in particular shoulder-chest-waist ration. This use is unfortunately not formalised and varies from maker to maker but as a guide:

drop 4 = stout figure/portly fit
drop 6 = regular figure/classic fit (normal shoulders, normal waist)
drop 7 = slim figure/tailored fit (narrow shoulders, narrow waist)
drop 8 = athletic figure/slim fit (wide shoulder, very narrow waist)

It is very difficult to give general rules as they change from maker to maker. Most houses label each of their pattern blocks by the drop number so this becomes more an indicator of fit than size in these cases.
Thanks. That's basically what I was saying about drops. Though my Canali blazer in a drop 7 is by no means slim and came with wide shoulders and a fairly straight cut, since drop 7 in Italian sizing is about the same as a drop 6 in American sizing. Drop 7 in US sizing is a much slimmer cut, about the same as drop 8 in Italian.

But what does Italian trouser sizing refer to? What does the "48" in a size 48 Italian trousers mean? Is it just that it is meant for someone with hips that are 96 cm (48x2) around?
 

JBierly

Advanced Member
Thanks. That's basically what I was saying about drops. Though my Canali blazer in a drop 7 is by no means slim and came with wide shoulders and a fairly straight cut, since drop 7 in Italian sizing is about the same as a drop 6 in American sizing. Drop 7 in US sizing is a much slimmer cut, about the same as drop 8 in Italian.

But what does Italian trouser sizing refer to? What does the "48" in a size 48 Italian trousers mean? Is it just that it is meant for someone with hips that are 96 cm (48x2) around?
Probably just means the size of the trousers that normally would go with a suit jacket of the same size. Its a fair question - I doubt it has anything to do with hip size.
 

AbeEz

Starting Member
So amidst the discussion of drops I received the suit this past Friday. The shoulder fit is perfect, however although this fit is one of Canalis slimmer fits it looks like it can use some trimming down. It doesn’t look big, but being that I have a very athletic build at 5’10” and 135 to 140 pounds it doesn’t follow the contour of my chest and waist, and definitely isn’t an ideal fit. This is besides the sleeves needing to be trimmed and shortened a drop. Length is good maybe a couple centimeters too long as well.

Let’s say in inches the drop seems to be about a 6 inch drop. I need an 8 inch drop.

So I wanted to ask the following

#1 I believe it is def. worth to tailor it if possible at an experienced tailor for around 100 to 150 dollars as a tailored Canali suit in my opinion comes out better than a $1300 MTM suit. Because high quality MTM suits don’t seem to be in my price range. And the ones that are 1000 to 1500 seem to be a hit and miss for many. I have seen people recommending Samuelson (spelling wrong), anyone who can recommend this over tailoring the Canali suit who can put their bet on a well made slim fitting suit.

#2 any recommendations for experienced tailors in NYC?

Thanks
 
Your email address will not be publicly visible. We will only use it to contact you to confirm your post.

IMPORTANT: BEFORE POSTING PLEASE CHECK THE DATE OF THE LAST POST OF THIS THREAD. IF IT'S VERY OLD, PLEASE CONSIDER REGISTERING FIRST, AND STARTING A NEW THREAD ABOUT THIS TOPIC.