[Fit Help] Oliver Wicks Suit/Shirt + Proper Cloth Shirt

venzor

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UPDATE 6/10: First remake of Oliver Wicks Suit + Shirt (see post for details) // http://imgur.com/a/GHCfq

UPDATE 4/26: First remake of Proper Cloth Shirt (see post for details) // http://imgur.com/a/FaX3N


ORIGINAL POST: Looking for some feedback regarding feasible alterations/remake on this 3 piece suit and shirt I just received from Oliver Wicks, and also a shirt from Proper Cloth.

Oliver Wicks 3 Piece Suit (work suit): http://imgur.com/a/IVKON

Oliver Wicks Shirt (work shirt for suits): http://imgur.com/a/Ftm72

Proper Cloth Shirt: http://imgur.com/a/1hEjW
(PC shirt is for masquerade party tux (http://imgur.com/a/bukoU) - concerned about fit because I may use PC over OW in the future for more custom work shirts)

Oliver Wicks Shirt vs. Proper Cloth Shirt (PC has black buttons): http://imgur.com/a/SyXkg
I like the higher arm holes on the OW shirt, however the seam is a little too high and slightly digs into my armpit. Perhaps a middle ground between the two? I like the length of the PC, OW feels like not enough material to tuck in. OW also has too much excess cloth bunched up in the back when tucked (is this a result of midsection being too big?). OW is definitely too tight on the chest. So far PC has seen the pics and is recommending this: Yoke: -.5", Chest: -.25", Midsection: -.75", and possibly adding side pleats to the back for extra mobility. Thoughts? I'm worried about the midsection, as I do have some some belly fat.

First time using M2M, thanks in advance. I planned to collect feedback here over the weekend, and then compile and send it to them on Monday.
 
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Matt S

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Welcome!

Oliver Wicks' suits have an awkward cut and really aren't shaped well. I don't know exactly what it is that causes that. I had the same problem. The chest is too tight in front, the waist is too suppressed and the skirt is too tight. The sleeves are too narrow at the top, causing divots. The sleeve pitch is off, and the sleeve length is too long. I hope you didn't get working buttons on the cuffs. They push that, even for a first suit. The armholes are too low, which causes mobility problems. The jacket length is good, which is something I often see wrong these days.

The waistcoat is much too long. The bottom button should be where the fourth button is (and the buttons should be closer together). The length is why it sticks out at the bottom. They're called "waistcoats" and not "hipcoats" because they are supposed to end at the waist.

The trouser rise is a bit low, and it looks like they cut the trousers with their usual curved waistband. That's a no-no for suit trousers. When I got trousers from them I couldn't figure out what the problem was because they hung poorly. Eventually I realised it was because they cut the waistband with a curve, and I had never seen that before. It works for low-rise jeans but not for suit trousers. You should also get side-adjusters since you should never wear a belt with a three-piece suit.

Have you washed the shirts? The Oliver Wicks shirt is too tight around the chest. The Proper Cloth shirt fits better, but the wing collar and fake studs are unfortunate, sorry. If you want dark buttons, I suggest black/smoked mother-of-pearl. Attached wing collars never stand up properly and should be avoided. The shirt's design does not match the formality that a wing collar needs. It just looks cheap.

I apologise if this was harsh, but I didn't want to mince words.
 

venzor

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Have you washed the shirts? The Oliver Wicks shirt is too tight around the chest. The Proper Cloth shirt fits better, but the wing collar and fake studs are unfortunate, sorry. If you want dark buttons, I suggest black/smoked mother-of-pearl. Attached wing collars never stand up properly and should be avoided. The shirt's design does not match the formality that a wing collar needs. It just looks cheap.

I apologise if this was harsh, but I didn't want to mince words.
Thanks, this is exactly the type of input I was looking for. Trying to round up as much info as possible before contacting them about adjustments. Both shirts have been washed. I appreciate your feedback on the wing collar shirt as well. What M2M company have you had good experience with for suits and shirts?
 

tda003

Senior Member
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I always feel bad when I can't say good things about clothes that someone who has put as much time and effort into as you obviously have here. However, I must +1 on what Matt S has said. The body of the Proper Cloth shirt fits pretty well. It would be very much better with the buttons and collar on the Oliver Wick. Sorry.
 

venzor

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Texas
Lubbock
I always feel bad when I can't say good things about clothes that someone who has put as much time and effort into as you obviously have here. However, I must +1 on what Matt S has said. The body of the Proper Cloth shirt fits pretty well. It would be very much better with the buttons and collar on the Oliver Wick. Sorry.
Hehe, I knew what I was getting into trying M2M for the first time. Everything I've read here and on Reddit prepared me for the first crafted attempt to likely not be very good. Now I'm just hoping that all the feedback I give them will help them remake it into something better because I absolutely love the weight/feel/look of the material used.

As for the infamous wing collar shirt, I bought it in this style to use at a masquerade party with a tux (http://imgur.com/a/bukoU) and to guinea pig the fit of Proper Cloth. I've never owned a proper tuxedo shirt before so I thought i'd try out the wing collar and black buttons (so I wouldn't have to mess with studs). We'll see how it works at the party, but if they allow a remake on it, I almost certainly will change the buttons/collar and use this as a work shirt.
 
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Matt S

Connoisseur
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United States
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New York
As for the infamous wing collar shirt, I bought it in this style to use at a masquerade party with a tux (http://imgur.com/a/bukoU) and to guinea pig the fit of Proper Cloth. I've never owned a proper tuxedo shirt before so I thought i'd try out the wing collar and black buttons (so I wouldn't have to mess with studs). We'll see how it works at the party, but if they allow a remake on it, I almost certainly will change the buttons/collar and use this as a work shirt.
You still don't have a proper Tuxedo shirt. For black tie, you're better with a spread collar. Studs are absolutely not necessary, and they are out of place on a shirt that doesn't have a more formal front.
 

Matt S

Connoisseur
7,745
United States
NY
New York
Thanks, this is exactly the type of input I was looking for. Trying to round up as much info as possible before contacting them about adjustments. Both shirts have been washed. I appreciate your feedback on the wing collar shirt as well. What M2M company have you had good experience with for suits and shirts?

My best experiences were ones when I was measured in person. For online only, Deo Veritas has done well with shirts. I have a jacket and trousers from Oliver Wicks that came out pretty well, but it took a three tries.
 

venzor

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Got the alterations/changes to my Proper Cloth Shirt (the infamous black buttoned wing collar shirt) finalized:

Yoke: -.5"
Chest: -.25"
Sleeve Length: +.25" (add forearm pleat)
Midsection: -.5" (add back darts and rear pleats)
Fabric is now a 120s Broadcloth
Buttons are now Tall Mother of Pearl
Collar is a semi spread
Cuff is a one button mitered
Front placket.


 
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tda003

Senior Member
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Yes, Grasshopper, you are starting to see.

Pictures of the final product? Cuff placket w/ or w/o button?
 

venzor

Starting Member
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Lubbock
Yes, I will post pictures of all of the remakes. Proper Cloth shirt's alterations are finalized now (I still got to wear the wing collared shirt for the masquerade ball before returning it and was happy with the way the pictures turned out - http://imgur.com/a/aJT0b). Still getting the finishing touches on the Oliver Wicks 3 piece + shirt.

Here is what was recommended based on all the feedback on the OLIVER WICKS Suit Jacket + Vest + Shirt + Pants...thoughts? My main concern is the bold line regarding the arm holes, if someone could give me some feedback regarding this. Thanks

Jacket
- We will let out the jacket chest and a bit in the back by 1.3" in total for more comfort and freedom of movement.
- We will let the waist out by 1".
- For the shoulders, we will increase the top shoulder measurement. In addition, we will also increase the shoulder circumference. These will take care of the divots.
- Shorten the sleeves by 0.5".
- Adding 0.5" to the biceps.
- We will also rotate the sleeves slightly forward to improve the pitch.
- I'm afraid we won't be able to rise the armhole up - it will negatively affect the shoulders and cause divots. However, with the extra room in the torso, you would be able to more comfortably rise your arms.
--i do have functioning button holes right now on the sleeves...thoughts on this?


Vest
- I agree on the length of the vest, we will reduce it by 1.5". However, keep in mind that the vest should not show the shirt, usually it should end at the pants waist. Shortening the vest would make the buttons closer together.
- We will also let the waist out by 1".

Shirt
- Let the collar out by 0.4"
- Shorten sleeve by 0.4"
- Let the chest out by 1.6"
- Let the stomach out by 1.2"
- We will lower the armhole a bit.
- The tightness in the armhole could also be affected by tightness in the biceps. From the photos I can see that your other shirt has more room in the biceps than the one you have from us. We can let the biceps out by 0.4"
--The length of the shirt can certainly be increased. We will add an 1.5" so it doesn't get untucked.

Pants
--add side adjusters on one pair, and keep belt loops on 2nd pair
--However, In your case we can shift the balance slightly forward to even it out a bit. (to deal with the curved cut)
- We will shift the balance of the crotch forward, meaning we will increase the front rise and decrease the back one. This will give you more room in the front but it will also even out the wrinkles in the back of the legs.
- I would also suggest that we add a bit to the crotch, 0.4".
- Letting the hips out would also give you a bit more room, I suggest a small adjustment of 0.4".
- There also appears to be tightness in the thigh area, I suggest we let it out by 0.5"
- We will increase the leg opening by 0.8"
- We can also shorten the pants, I suggest by 0.4"
 
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