Mr. Mac

Senior Member
680
To reiterate what I tried to convey in my OP:

1.) There seems to be a bit of controversy concerning the quality of the India-made Florsheim Kenmoor

2.) I sell Florsheim (among many other brands) for a living

3.) I had a chance to ask questions directly to the company rep and a senior company executive in charge of production

4.) I thought you all might like to know what they had to say

And to add an additional thought to ponder:

Don't shoot the messenger. If you disagree with what I wrote, feel free to call the Florsheim brothers and tell them they're full of crap.
 

Nick V

Senior Member
763
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New York
New York
Rather than be directed to become designated bargain hunter and chase a red herring, I would like to hear your take on the points of material quality I raised in refutation of the OP.
YOU:
I feel you have been lied to and mislead. You have my sympathies for having suffered through such tripe.

Buy some Aldens, Allen Edmonds, or vintage Florsheim Kenmoors and do not look back. All three blow the current Florsheim production out of the water.

ME:
You don't seem to get the point. Re-read the entire tread with an open mind. Then, we'll talk.
 
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Pentheos

Advanced Member
2,972
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Rather than be directed to become designated bargain hunter and chase a red herring, I would like to hear your take on the points of material quality I raised in refutation of the OP.
If that was your idea of a "refutation," I hope you're not a lawyer.
 

heimskringla

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
147
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Personally, I'd pay an extra $75 or so if the shoes were made in the US. It's not that I doubt the quality of goods made elsewhere, it's that I'd like to see more manufacturing moved back Stateside.
 

greekgeek

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YOU:
I feel you have been lied to and mislead. You have my sympathies for having suffered through such tripe.

Buy some Aldens, Allen Edmonds, or vintage Florsheim Kenmoors and do not look back. All three blow the current Florsheim production out of the water.

ME:
You don't seem to get the point. Re-read the entire tread with an open mind. Then, we'll talk.
Are you purposely being obtuse or did you not read my other posts in this thread? The OP paints the picture that the shoes are top flight and that the only difference is that the labor source has change since the offshoring of production and that the quality of the Kenmoor line has been maintained. I guess I beg to differ.

So you agree that the Kenmoor is not made with corrected grain or that the pebble grain is not applied via embossing, really?

How about the cardboard/shoddy insole?

The rock hard outsoles?

The inferior lining leathers/pleathers?

I have not seen salesman samples of new models but the comments about the Kenmoor being made to top standards but for the labor are pretty outlandish.
This is an odd post, I admit I do not understand it at all.

In elaborating on my initial reply I was making counter points to #1, #2, and #4 from your OP which were listed as "facts" on the Kenmoor from the Florsheim rep.

Nice pic, and I agree they are good for what they are. The comments in the OP make them out to be something they are not.
 
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Nick V

Senior Member
763
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New York
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Are you purposely being obtuse or did you not read my other posts in this thread? The OP paints the picture that the shoes are top flight and that the only difference is that the labor source has change since the offshoring of production and that the quality of the Kenmoor line has been maintained. I guess I beg to differ.
I read your posts. Frankly, I don't see much credibility in them. I hope that's direct enough for you. The OP was trying to make the point that Florsheim is a good value. His post was based on his experience in the shoe biz and those he knows. Mine mirror that. Further, I'll repeat, keep an eye on Florsheim, they know what they are doing. I agree to disagree with you.
 

greekgeek

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I read your posts. Frankly, I don't see much credibility in them. I hope that's direct enough for you. The OP was trying to make the point that Florsheim is a good value. His post was based on his experience in the shoe biz and those he knows. Mine mirror that. Further, I'll repeat, keep an eye on Florsheim, they know what they are doing. I agree to disagree with you.
Interesting take on it, suprising even, considering your background. Hopefully perception can become reality.
 

Racer

Senior Member
629
United States
Tennessee
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I have no dog in this hunt, other than I'm interested in learning more about this these topics to become a more educated consumer. In that vein, I found the OP's thread opener to be educational. The OP made it quite clear where he sourced his information, and from what I could see made absolutely no attempt to claim objectivity.

Unfortunately several of the follow-on posts didn't add any value to the subject; instead, they did the opposite. This substantially diminished the potential for educational value, and seems to have completely derailed the topic. I find that very disappointing.
 

Cardinals5

Honors Member
3,854
United States
SC
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I've been trying to keep my nose out of the action in this thread, but fear some of the dispute, as usual, is over the use of language. We've all been refering to Florsheim "Kenmoors" as if they were the proper name of all versions of longwings Florsheim ever produced. At various times Florsheim has produced a number of different "lines" of longwings at different prices. At a period in the early 1980s, IIRC, Florsheim was producing (using black as an example):

Black shell cordovan longwings (Royal Imperial)
Black smooth calf longwings (Royal Imperial)
Black pebble grained longwings (Royal Imperial)
Black shell longwings (Imperial)
Black smooth calf longwings (Imperial)
Black pebble grained longwings (Imperial)
Black smooth calf longwings (standard line)
Black pebble grained longwings (standard line)

Now which of those models should accurately be called the "Kenmoor" I'm uncertain, but I assume the name should not be applied to the standard line versions. Or, if all Florsheim longwings are called "Kenmoor" then we should specify which line we're talking about.

In the same vein, I have seen both full calf (Kenmoor?) and corrected grain (non-Kenmoor?) longwings by Florsheim that were made in India. Both were good quality for the price. If Florsheim is now only using full grain calf for their made in India Kenmoor longwings at the $225 price then I absolutely salute and congratulate them. I can't speak from recent experience, but it wouldn't surprise me if Florsheim was ALSO producing a longwing made of cg, but that shouldn't be called the "Kenmoor" and is sold for less than $225. Mr. Mac or Nick V can and should correct me on that last point if I am wrong.

When all is said and done, I'm planning on hunting down a brick-and-mortar store where I can see some of the recent Florsheim longwing offerings.
 

Nick V

Senior Member
763
United States
New York
New York
Interesting take on it, suprising even, considering your background. Hopefully perception can become reality.
It's not perception. Florsheim never claimed to be Alden or Allen Edmonds. It's price points. IMO they are hitting the mark.
 

HistoryDoc

Super Member
1,051
United States
California
Visalia
I have to believe that anyone disagreeing with Nick V. must not know who he is. He knows all of these shoes, brands, and materials. When he weighs in, it should settle the issue. He is also the closest thing to an unbiased source we'll find, since he doesn't work for Florsheim, AE, or Alden. He tears apart and reconstructs these shoes every day. Look over his past posts, also. He doesn't needlessly criticize brands and he is the first to say when one of his competitors does good work. He is the expert.
 

Wes Bourne

New Member
38
I've been trying to keep my nose out of the action in this thread, but fear some of the dispute, as usual, is over the use of language. We've all been refering to Florsheim "Kenmoors" as if they were the proper name of all versions of longwings Florsheim ever produced. At various times Florsheim has produced a number of different "lines" of longwings at different prices. At a period in the early 1980s, IIRC, Florsheim was producing (using black as an example):

Black shell cordovan longwings (Royal Imperial)
Black smooth calf longwings (Royal Imperial)
Black pebble grained longwings (Royal Imperial)
Black shell longwings (Imperial)
Black smooth calf longwings (Imperial)
Black pebble grained longwings (Imperial)
Black smooth calf longwings (standard line)
Black pebble grained longwings (standard line)

Now which of those models should accurately be called the "Kenmoor" I'm uncertain, but I assume the name should not be applied to the standard line versions. Or, if all Florsheim longwings are called "Kenmoor" then we should specify which line we're talking about.

In the same vein, I have seen both full calf (Kenmoor?) and corrected grain (non-Kenmoor?) longwings by Florsheim that were made in India. Both were good quality for the price. If Florsheim is now only using full grain calf for their made in India Kenmoor longwings at the $225 price then I absolutely salute and congratulate them. I can't speak from recent experience, but it wouldn't surprise me if Florsheim was ALSO producing a longwing made of cg, but that shouldn't be called the "Kenmoor" and is sold for less than $225. Mr. Mac or Nick V can and should correct me on that last point if I am wrong.

When all is said and done, I'm planning on hunting down a brick-and-mortar store where I can see some of the recent Florsheim longwing offerings.
Ah-ha! My NOS longwings (can I call them Kenmoors?) are Imperial, not Royal Imperial. Might explain why the uppers on mine are closer in appearance to current ones than for those who have vintage Royal Imperials...
 

greekgeek

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It's not perception. Florsheim never claimed to be Alden or Allen Edmonds. It's price points. IMO they are hitting the mark.
Price points have nothing to do with claiming a Chevy (Chery?) is made to Cadillac quality but for the labor used.

You have yet to address the comments in the OP as regards to quality of materials used and instead insist on pressing a "price to value" argument, which incidentally, I never directly addressed and is not the thrust of my posts.
 

My Pet. A Pantsuit

Senior Member
596
Maybe this will help clarify...

These are from a 1975 Florsheim catalog. Little mention of the Royal Imperial line, but the Kenmoor appear as part of the Imperial set.


Note the mention, but not appearance, of the Golden Harvest AKA Band-Aid finish:



There's also an Albany longwing (there were other Albanies, such as a monkstrap) that is depicted as part of the Florsheim Flexibles line.



Dialing back to 1973, the Kenmoor did appear on the main line as well as the Imperial line. Finding this, I was willing to be wrong about the link Frosejr posted being Kenmoors, but I compared the medallion brogues and they were, in fact, different. Not to mention the overall shape and single sole...



Since the pictures of the Imperials were mightily similar to those in 1975, I didn't scan those out of the sanctity of bandwidth.
 

Gromson

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This might be the stupidest thread ever on AAAC.
It started off well enough but then went the way of far to many internet exchanges. I appreciate the OP and will certainly consider taking a new look at the Florsheim offerings in the future.
 

maximar

Super Member
1,331
United States
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OC
What the heck is going on? Is this about Florsheim still? This started out as a very good thread. Someone needs to start an "I hate Florsheim thread" and move on.
 

greekgeek

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
249
United States
INDIANA
EVANSVILLE
These are from a 1975 Florsheim catalog. Little mention of the Royal Imperial line, but the Kenmoor appear as part of the Imperial set.


Note the mention, but not appearance, of the Golden Harvest AKA Band-Aid finish:



There's also an Albany longwing (there were other Albanies, such as a monkstrap) that is depicted as part of the Florsheim Flexibles line.



Dialing back to 1973, the Kenmoor did appear on the main line as well as the Imperial line. Finding this, I was willing to be wrong about the link Frosejr posted being Kenmoors, but I compared the medallion brogues and they were, in fact, different. Not to mention the overall shape and single sole...



Since the pictures of the Imperials were mightily similar to those in 1975, I didn't scan those out of the sanctity of bandwidth.
Great scans! The Kenmoor also came in a saddle style shoe at one point as well.
 

Nick V

Senior Member
763
United States
New York
New York
Price points have nothing to do with claiming a Chevy (Chery?) is made to Cadillac quality but for the labor used.

You have yet to address the comments in the OP as regards to quality of materials used and instead insist on pressing a "price to value" argument, which incidentally, I never directly addressed and is not the thrust of my posts.
Who wrote this:


Nice pic, and I agree they are good for what they are. The comments in the OP make them out to be something they are not.

I'll spare the forum this insainity and respond via pm.
 

greekgeek

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Who wrote this:


Nice pic, and I agree they are good for what they are. The comments in the OP make them out to be something they are not.

I'll spare the forum this insainity and respond via pm.
The import Kenmoors are a decent shoe, they look good, but yes I do think they are misrepresented in the OP and do not think that the Florsheim reps comments represent the shoes accurately. Maybe they will in days to come.

I guess the hyperbole of my first post in this thread has clouded the issue, or perhaps I am simply a poor communicator. I'll refrain from posting in it also, feel free to PM me and that goes for others as well if you would like to discuss.