If you're thin and short, these are for you. 30.5 waist, 30.5 length (to the unfinished bottom). These were made by Hertling for Jaden Lam, which catered to shorter men. So these have a shorter rise. Light weight, fine finish cotton in a light khaki/stone color. Nicest khakis I've ever had. I had these hemmed and wore them a few times, but they are just too snug for me. I let the hems down so you can finish them as you like. $34 for both, including shipping within the US.