alpaq44

Starting Member
11
United States
New York
New York
I bought a few MTM suits from Black Lapel all within the last 2 years. There are severe quality issues I've never had with OTR suits.

One of them was made out of Vitale Barberis Canonico. I was sitting in a cab and the seam completely tore (image below). This was purchased in October 2017.

Also, on another suit, the collar around the jacket has started fraying. This was purchased in May 2017. Plus the suit pants, purchased in October 2018, have a tear in the fabric.

Is this a sign of garbage quality? They claim the tear in the jacket collar is from using a hanger, the tear in the seam is a side effect of having form fitted pants, and the tear in the pants is from getting caught on something. This sounds like a load of hores*#@% to me. They refused to admit fault. I think I should probably stop ordering from them and switch to someone else, but I wanted to see what others think.

Thanks
 

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TimF

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
243
United States
New York
New York City
In short, garbage. You usually get what you paid for in tailoring.
 

SG_67

Connoisseur
14,561
United States
Illinois
Chicago
Time to move on. Sorry you had a bad experience.

Sometimes it’s better to just go off the rack.

By the way, what an odd reply about the pants, assuming you accurately represented their reply; “a side effect of having form fitted pants”? I wonder if they advertise that warning as not knowing anything about this company, most of these online MTM schmatta merchants really push the slim fit thing.
 

Flanderian

Connoisseur
21,578
United States
New Jersey
Flanders
I'm sorry you had these experiences.

There's a reason that the MTM sellers can sell MTM so cheaply and still make money; it's cheap stuff! There is no free lunch!

One of the most costly elements in a suit is the cloth, and good cloth isn't cheap, even at wholesale. And in all three cases it appears that what failed is the cloth. The second two clearly show wear from abrasion, and even in the photos the cloth looks loosely woven from loosely spun yarn. Essentially, it's trash.

In the photo where you had split your pants, even if Vitale Barberis Canonico actually did make the cloth (A risky assumption.) some Italian mills also make cheaper lines of lesser cloth.

But if the "form fitted" remark is accurate, that also is a contributing cause to what you experienced. Any cloth can only take so much, and as the great Cuffdaddy opined, "Don't wear your pants like a girl!"
 
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alpaq44

Starting Member
11
United States
New York
New York
Time to move on. Sorry you had a bad experience.

Sometimes it’s better to just go off the rack.

By the way, what an odd reply about the pants, assuming you accurately represented their reply; “a side effect of having form fitted pants”? I wonder if they advertise that warning as not knowing anything about this company, most of these online MTM schmatta merchants really push the slim fit thing.
/exact quote "The rip along the rise like that is caused by excessive pressure applied to the seam. The location of the rip and how it occurred, suggest that the pants were a bit to snug in that area. While you may not feel the tightness and if you prefer form-fitting garment, not having enough room in the seat area can cause such damage when you're sitting down low. To prevent this from happening again, I would suggest increasing the rise and hips by +.50" to add a bit of room while keeping the pants form-fitted."

Mind you, these were extremely tight fitting, and tighter than other suits I've ordered from them (not sure why that would be the case as my measurements never changed), but I didn't feel like going through the ordeal of having it remade, so I just went with it. Either way, not good.
 

alpaq44

Starting Member
11
United States
New York
New York
I'm sorry you had these experiences.

There's a reason that the MTM sellers can sell MTM so cheaply and still make money; it's cheap stuff! There is no free lunch!

One of the most costly elements in a suit is the cloth, and good cloth isn't cheap, even at wholesale. And in all three cases it appears that what failed is the cloth. The second two clearly show wear from abrasion, and even in the photos the cloth looks loosely woven from loosely spun yarn. Essentially, it's trash.

In the photo where you had split your pants, even if Vitale Barberis Canonico actually did make the cloth (A risky assumption.) some Italian mills also make cheaper lines of lesser cloth.

But if the "form fitted" remark is accurate, that also is a contributing cause to what you experienced. Any cloth can only take so much, and as the great Cuffdaddy opined, "Don't wear your pants like a girl!"
Do you have a recommendation? Black Lapel is not the cheapest of MTM like Indochino. If I'm going to have quality issues and need to replace every 2 years, I may as well go lower price if it's not actually better quality/more durable.

However, I'd rather get real quality and not have to replace every 2 years. I'd rather stick close to the 1k mark per suit, but could go above that. I'm thinking maybe Alan David which is true bespoke. Thoughts?
 

TimF

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
243
United States
New York
New York City
The key is to find a reputable maker, whether it's MTM or bespoke. Most online outfits (and Indochino), sadly are not that.

I have very little to disagree with the quotes re tight inseam. The question is, Did you ask for "form fitting" pants or did they measure you for form fitting?
 

SG_67

Connoisseur
14,561
United States
Illinois
Chicago
You live in nyc? There must be many brick & mortar options. Try Paul Stuart.

Here’s the thing, made to measure using an online service is folly and typically leads to heartburn.

By off the rack and get it altered. You can find a bargain. If you’re going to do made to measure, don’t cut corners and don’t look for bargains. You’ll end up literally with what you pay for.
 

alpaq44

Starting Member
11
United States
New York
New York
You live in nyc? There must be many brick & mortar options. Try Paul Stuart.

Here’s the thing, made to measure using an online service is folly and typically leads to heartburn.

By off the rack and get it altered. You can find a bargain. If you’re going to do made to measure, don’t cut corners and don’t look for bargains. You’ll end up literally with what you pay for.
I hear you, although I did go in person for fitting I didn’t send measurements in online. Must have been something screwed up with how it was manufactured. Appreciate the recommendation.
 

alpaq44

Starting Member
11
United States
New York
New York
The key is to find a reputable maker, whether it's MTM or bespoke. Most online outfits (and Indochino), sadly are not that.

I have very little to disagree with the quotes re tight inseam. The question is, Did you ask for "form fitting" pants or did they measure you for form fitting?
They measured me for “slim fit.” For the one where the inseam tore, they fit almost like yoga pants. The other ones have more room and haven’t bursted open yet at least.

Hard for me to tell who’s reputable.
 
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