Intrepid

Super Member
1,746
United States
Okla.
Nichols Hills
What do you guys think?
As we know, it is unusual for a top level executive or a significant politician to appear on TV wearing a tie, same for the work place or church. Seemed to happen rapidly. Suit or jacket, open collar dress shirt. What's your take on this?
 

Flanderian

Connoisseur
22,470
United States
New Jersey
Flanders
What do you guys think?
As we know, it is unusual for a top level executive or a significant politician to appear on TV wearing a tie, same for the work place or church. Seemed to happen rapidly. Suit or jacket, open collar dress shirt. What's your take on this?
It started with the Iranians and Israelis, and is now trending toward the norm.

I couldn't care less. 😴
 

eagle2250

Connoisseur/Curmudgeon Emeritus - Moderator
30,937
Harmony, FL
United States
Florida
Harmony
There are any number of tieless looks that go well with a sports coat but I am always jarred when I see a suit without a tie.
I almost always wear a tie....primarily because at our advancing ages we may not have a lot of years left, but we have a crap-ton of ties and shoes left to wear out! LOL. Seriously though, old habits are just hard for some of us to break. ;)
 

Fading Fast

Connoisseur
8,964
United States
New York
NY
Since this is on the Trad side of the house, I'd say that from a Trad perspective, there are many historical examples of sport coats being worn without ties (and with just an open-collared shirt or turtleneck) from the '50s on and, even, occasionally, from the '30s on. I'm basing this on my memory of movies from that era and books on fashion history that I've read (both are activities that I do way too often and have for way too many years :) ).

I like the sport coat-without-a-tie look with the caveat that, like anything, it has to be done right. But an open-collar OCBD shirt, pair of chinos, corduroys or even flannels - with or without a sweater - paired with the right sport coat can look great, and, as noted, was quite common from the '50s on.

But you want to "balance" your casualness in style, fabrics and design; so, for example, a tweed sport coat with an OCBD shirt, Shetland wool sweater and pair of cords or heavy chinos looks great (IMO), but I would not pair all those items with a smoothly finished wool and crisply tailored navy blazer as the blazer would look to "formal" and not of the same "feel" as the other casual items.

Conversely, if you paired that crisp blazer with a fine pinpoint-cotton shirt, merino wool sweater and smooth-wool and well-tailored grey trousers, it would look good, but those same items would look too "refined" under a tweed or corduroy sport coat - again, IMO. And all of these combinations have historical precedent going back to the '50s (and, as mentioned, even the '30s).

That's a long way of saying, from a Trad perspective, a sport coat doesn't need a tie as long as it's all thoughtfully done. As to the suit, other than with a turtleneck (and that wasn't very common, but was done now and then), there is very little historical perspective for suits being worn without ties through most of the 20th Century in the American Trad world. As an aside, I'm leaving ascots out of this discussion as they are very rarely seen anymore. So, from a Trad perspective, I'd say a suit without a tie isn't Trad.

When suits without ties started popping up - give or take - twenty years ago, I thought it looked very off - as if someone had left the house without finishing getting dressed. And while I don't love the look, after almost two decades of seeing it done - and done more frequently in the last several years - I've adjusted and get that, in particular, many young men like to wear suits that way.

If they do, then most of the old guidelines still apply as the suit should be properly tailored and proportioned to the wearer's body and the other details - shirt, shoes, belt, etc. - should be consistent in quality, style and finish. If so, and if you want to do it, then, I guess, in today's world it's part of the norm, but it still wouldn't be Trad (if we define Trad, very broadly, as in the American tradition of dress from the middle part of the 20th Century).
 

Charles Dana

Honors Member
3,143
United States
California
San Francisco
If I’m in a dark wool suit, I’m wearing a tie. However, I think a decidedly casual suit--such as one made of linen or cotton poplin--looks OK without a tie. And because it is relatively far down on the formality scale, even a tan wool gabardine suit can look agreeable without a tie.

Still, a seersucker suit, to me, requires a tie.

(By the way, didn’t we have a thread on this exact topic a few months ago? Could have been longer ago than that, given how easily I lose track of time. Evidently we’re in re-run season. Not that there’s anything wrong with re-runs. Seinfeld, anyone?)
 

Oldsarge

Moderator and Bon Vivant
12,590
On the banks of the Willamette
United States
Oregon
Oak Grove
Since this is on the Trad side of the house, I'd say that from a Trad perspective, there are many historical examples of sport coats being worn without ties (and with just an open-collared shirt or turtleneck) from the '50s on and, even, occasionally, from the '30s on. I'm basing this on my memory of movies from that era and books on fashion history that I've read (both are activities that I do way too often and have for way too many years :) ).

I like the sport coat-without-a-tie look with the caveat that, like anything, it has to be done right. But an open-collar OCBD shirt, pair of chinos, corduroys or even flannels - with or without a sweater - paired with the right sport coat can look great, and, as noted, was quite common from the '50s on.

But you want to "balance" your casualness in style, fabrics and design; so, for example, a tweed sport coat with an OCBD shirt, Shetland wool sweater and pair of cords or heavy chinos looks great (IMO), but I would not pair all those items with a smoothly finished wool and crisply tailored navy blazer as the blazer would look to "formal" and not of the same "feel" as the other casual items.

Conversely, if you paired that crisp blazer with a fine pinpoint-cotton shirt, merino wool sweater and smooth-wool and well-tailored grey trousers, it would look good, but those same items would look too "refined" under a tweed or corduroy sport coat - again, IMO. And all of these combinations have historical precedent going back to the '50s (and, as mentioned, even the '30s).

That's a long way of saying, from a Trad perspective, a sport coat doesn't need a tie as long as it's all thoughtfully done. As to the suit, other than with a turtleneck (and that wasn't very common, but was done now and then), there is very little historical perspective for suits being worn without ties through most of the 20th Century in the American Trad world. As an aside, I'm leaving ascots out of this discussion as they are very rarely seen anymore. So, from a Trad perspective, I'd say a suit without a tie isn't Trad.

When suits without ties started popping up - give or take - twenty years ago, I thought it looked very off - as if someone had left the house without finishing getting dressed. And while I don't love the look, after almost two decades of seeing it done - and done more frequently in the last several years - I've adjusted and get that, in particular, many young men like to wear suits that way.

If they do, then most of the old guidelines still apply as the suit should be properly tailored and proportioned to the wearer's body and the other details - shirt, shoes, belt, etc. - should be consistent in quality, style and finish. If so, and if you want to do it, then, I guess, in today's world it's part of the norm, but it still wouldn't be Trad (if we define Trad, very broadly, as in the American tradition of dress from the middle part of the 20th Century).
Whole-hearted agreement, here.
 

Flanderian

Connoisseur
22,470
United States
New Jersey
Flanders
If I’m in a dark wool suit, I’m wearing a tie. However, I think a decidedly casual suit--such as one made of linen or cotton poplin--looks OK without a tie. And because it is relatively far down on the formality scale, even a tan wool gabardine suit can look agreeable without a tie.

Still, a seersucker suit, to me, requires a tie.
A valuable distinction I feel. I've always enjoyed a tan cotton poplin suit with a woven or knit sport shirt. With knits, I prefer the top button buttoned. I think it's a neat and finished look.
 

drpeter

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
138
United States
Wisconsin
Stevens Point
I almost always wear a tie....primarily because at our advancing ages we may not have a lot of years left, but we have a crap-ton of ties and shoes left to wear out! LOL. Seriously though, old habits are just hard for some of us to break. ;)
Exactly my approach @eagle2250! I have a gazillion of them, four-in-hands and bowties, and after retirement I rarely need to wear them. I did dress in sports jackets, sweaters, dress trousers, ties and proper shoes when I was working, and even a suit on occasion, but it was very flexible since my work was as a professor /scientist at a university. I had an appreciative audience too -- the students liked their professor dressed up a tad, and they even complained when I turned up tie-less on occasion! I still wear a jacket or sweater and tie on occasion, or when taking a day trip to a nearby city like Madison for bookshopping, films and lunch/dinner.

As for suits without ties, that is definitely a no-no for me. But I'm old-fashioned enough not to wear any item of formal clothing with jeans (except a very unconstructed sport coat), or anything with loud colours and patterns, period.