Audi S5 TC

Advanced Member
Has anybody on here ever bought bespoke or made to measure and had suit pants or odd pants made where they were cut for no belt and no suspenders? I know side adjusters are a must and a rear adjuster is strongly recommended with such pants.

What are the balance, comfort, fit and drape like? Cary Grant swore by these pants with all of his dress wear and formal wear, so I’m guessing there no better and no worse than those cut for belts or suspenders.
 

Matt S

Connoisseur
For trousers with side-adjusters they would be cut similarly to how belted trousers are cut. And there's no one right way to cut them, from traditional high rise and full leg to modern low rise and narrow leg.

Rear adjusters are only used on trousers for braces. I've never seen them on trousers without a fishtail back. Rear adjusters are not meant to hold up the trousers.
 

Audi S5 TC

Advanced Member
For trousers with side-adjusters they would be cut similarly to how belted trousers are cut. And there's no one right way to cut them, from traditional high rise and full leg to modern low rise and narrow leg.

Rear adjusters are only used on trousers for braces. I've never seen them on trousers without a fishtail back. Rear adjusters are not meant to hold up the trousers.
What are rear adjusters meant to do?
 

Matt S

Connoisseur
What are rear adjusters meant to do?
I've always been under the impression that they're there to clean up the lines of the trousers. They're traditionally placed well below the waist, so they're not cinching the waist. They're always paired with another form of support.

I have just done more research on them, and in the 1950s back cinches were commonly added to belted trousers, more as a fashion detail than as anything practical.
 

richard warren

Senior Member
Seems to me that a buckle below the waist and above the rear end would be quite useful in keeping a pair of high rise pants up, without requiring a belt or a the belt that is uncomfortably tight, as a substitute for tapering in that area.
 

Audi S5 TC

Advanced Member
Seems to me that a buckle below the waist and above the rear end would be quite useful in keeping a pair of high rise pants up, without requiring a belt or a the belt that is uncomfortably tight, as a substitute for tapering in that area.
I agree with this. Are side adjusters typically below the waistband? I always thought they were on the waistband.
 

Peak and Pine

Connoisseur
Are side adjusters typically below the waistband? I always thought they were on the waistband.
Side adjusters are on the waistband. The back belt is below. Look carefully at your pants, some of them will have dual darts in the rear, one above each pocket extending to the waist band. A back belt can simulate what these darts do should they be absent.
 

Audi S5 TC

Advanced Member
Side adjusters are on the waistband. The back belt is below. Look carefully at your pants, some of them will have dual darts in the rear, one above each pocket extending to the waist band. A back belt can simulate what these darts do should they be absent.
That’s what I thought. Are the darts you speak of unnecessary with a rear adjuster?
 

Peak and Pine

Connoisseur
That’s what I thought. Are the darts you speak of unnecessary with a rear adjuster?
Probably. (Did you find any rear darts on your pants?) But as Matt points out above, there's a certain bling factor to the back belt. I have installed them on a few of mine (using cuttings from cuff excess and fabric store buckles), but because I tailor my trousers for an, ahem, perfect fit and because my weight never changes, I've never actually used them. I do it for the look.
 

Matt S

Connoisseur
Probably. (Did you find any rear darts on your pants?) But as Matt points out above, there's a certain bling factor to the back belt. I have installed them on a few of mine (using cuttings from cuff excess and fabric store buckles), but because I tailor my trousers for an, ahem, perfect fit and because my weight never changes, I've never actually used them. I do it for the look.
Almost all examples of cinch-back trousers I could find have rear darts. The rest have a yoke like jeans have. Darts or a yoke are still necessary because otherwise the waist will be huge or the seat will be much too small. Cinches are meant for minute adjustments, not the kind of shape a dart or a yoke provides.
 

Peak and Pine

Connoisseur
Almost all examples of cinch-back trousers I could find have rear darts. The rest have a yoke like jeans have. Darts or a yoke are still necessary because otherwise the waist will be huge or the seat will be much too small. Cinches are meant for minute adjustments, not the kind of shape a dart or a yoke provides.
^

If you say so.
 

Peak and Pine

Connoisseur
Have you seen any examples without rear darts or a rear yoke? I'd be curious to see such an example.
All conventional pants that I have bothered to observe have rear darts, deep ones if the pant is hi rise for the waist band will sit in the small of the back. I would imagine that very lo rise, for obvious reasons, have no darts. I wore those in the 70s, but have none left to check. I currently have on a pair of button fly Polish military pants that are elasticized in the back with no darts. But most pants, for good reason, have them. A back belt used with darts and a conventional belt, when tightened, would seem to emulate a deeper darting, should that be desired prior to the full cinching of the major belt. I dunno. I rely on zero tolerance by tailoring in adjustments like that. Which includes, after adjusting for proper length while on, removing the metal adjusters on braces and sewing in place. I've never known anyone else to do this. You're dealing with an eccentric here.
 

Matt S

Connoisseur
All conventional pants that I have bothered to observe have rear darts, deep ones if the pant is hi rise for the waist band will sit in the small of the back. I would imagine that very lo rise, for obvious reasons, have no darts. I wore those in the 70s, but have none left to check. I currently have on a pair of button fly Polish military pants that are elasticized in the back with no darts. But most pants, for good reason, have them. A back belt used with darts and a conventional belt, when tightened, would seem to emulate a deeper darting, should that be desired prior to the full cinching of the major belt. I dunno. I rely on zero tolerance by tailoring in adjustments like that. Which includes, after adjusting for proper length while on, removing the metal adjusters on braces and sewing in place. I've never known anyone else to do this. You're dealing with an eccentric here.
Low-rise trousers still have rear darts, and low-rise jeans still have a rear yoke. Lots of higher end trousers, no matter the rise, have two darts on each side. Some Savile Row tailors do that now, but traditionally they use one long dart on each side, extending the dart through the pocket, if there if a pocket.
 

Peak and Pine

Connoisseur
Low-rise trousers still have rear darts, and low-rise jeans still have a rear yoke. Lots of higher end trousers, no matter the rise, have two darts on each side. Some Savile Row tailors do that now, but traditionally they use one long dart on each side, extending the dart through the pocket, if there if a pocket.
Your repeated attrmpts to drive me out of this thread have worked.
 

EclecticSr.

Super Member
To quote you, "You're dealing with an eccentric here."

Having spent a good deal of my life being eccentric as well as eclectic, I now wish to coin a new phrase,
eclentric. I"ll look into a patent, copyright. :)

Has anybody on here ever bought bespoke or made to measure and had suit pants or odd pants made where they were cut for no belt and no suspenders? I know side adjusters are a must and a rear adjuster is strongly recommended with such pants.
All my side adjuster trousers, bespoke or OTR I wear with braces.I know of no rule contrary, personal preference with good reason.

While I own none, I have seen examples of side adjusters placed below waist band.

Belt loops, with or without braces, take your choice. You won't be dammed to sartorial hell. I don't like the kook without belt, unfinished.

Rear cinch, ah now we get into the weeds. Could they be akin to rear cinch on waistcoats?
When I find the comfort point on a waistcoat I stitch the cinch regardless of size, don't like that flappy piece hanging there.

Starting to get the picture? Develop your style and taste , find what works for you.

Now I'm going to see if I can patent a new phrase, Eclectric. Maybe a copyright. :)

All well meaning responses by some well informed members., ( I'll exclude myself ).
 

EclecticSr.

Super Member
Well as someone who has always respected no trespassing signs, including private property, I have come across many, and many without actual legal right.

So, I respect your intent to not violate such sign , however, I have not posted such and welcome any LIKE on to my property. Can we agree that each of us own a piece of property here?

I believe Matt would concur.
 

Peak and Pine

Connoisseur
Well as someone who has always respected no trespassing signs, including private property, I have come across many, and many without actual legal right.

So, I respect your intent to not violate such sign , however, I have not posted such and welcome any LIKE on to my property. Can we agree that each of us own a piece of property here?

I believe Matt would concur.
^

Eclectic is referencing something I took down, apparently at the exact moment he was responding, took down because on a later look didn't seem to have quite the grin quotient I was going for. Something about a No Trespassing sign Matt supposedly posted here, I've already forgotten. My 'pologies to Mr. E, Sr.
 
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