medhat

Super Member
1,558
United States
Wisconsin
Madison
This is predominantly true in the Pentagon as well, for those working directly with the multiple levels of senior leaders and especially with the interagency and international engagements. I wear a suit and tie Monday to Thursday and have a blazer and several ties in the office to dress up the odd trousers and button down worn on Fridays. These dog days of summer often see me commute open-collar and carrying my suit coat, however.

The very young, the very old, and the back-office experts/technicians seem most unwilling to hew to a more formal dress code.

Regards,
A better assessment of the situation than my original post. While I'm in general supportive of the "dress for your job today" movement, I also believe that we're fully on the slippery slope away from suit and tie for all but the most formal (senior management/board) settings. But more than simply a lamentation over the loss of tradition, I can't help but think there's a corresponding loss of a sense of personal accountability, albeit subliminal at best (or my imagination at worst!). The personal empowerment (if I can call it that) of dressing for how you perceive your role seems a ripe environment for people to migrate to a belief that they too can define their own level of achievement or work effort. It's been my observation that ultimately, whether one likes it or not, that there's always someone keeping a scorecard, and it behooves the worker, at whatever stage they're at, to know who that scorekeeper is.
 

Hebrew Barrister

Senior Member
714
United States
texas
yourmomtown
Unpopular opinion - good. Ties are annoying at best to wear, uncomfortable at worst.

Before anyone jumps on me for being a millennial, I am not. I am about to turn 41.

This said, wearing a suit without a tie does not look right. Since I am not a fan of ties, I go for an odd trousers and sport coat combo most of the time.
 

son of brummell

Super Member
1,148
United States
New York
New York
I have seen various retailers reduce their space and inventory of ties.

What struck me recently is that the Hermes store on Wall Street reduced its tie display by 50%. There used to be two walls. Now there is one.
 

EponymousFunk

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
148
Washington Beltway
United States
DC
Washington
...While I'm in general supportive of the "dress for your job today" movement, I also believe that we're fully on the slippery slope away from suit and tie for all but the most formal (senior management/board) settings.
I appreciate the autonomy that comes with "dress for your workday" policies and exercise some personal leeway where and when sensible. Perhaps somewhat like yourself, it strikes me that many use it as an excuse to indulge slovenly inclinations or engage in rank sartorial laziness. It takes a bit of effort to learn the basics of dressing well; and a bit more to find your style and assemble, curate, and care for your wardrobe (try doing it while you're pushing 50 after 30+ years in uniform!).

...But more than simply a lamentation over the loss of tradition, I can't help but think there's a corresponding loss of a sense of personal accountability, albeit subliminal at best (or my imagination at worst!). The personal empowerment (if I can call it that) of dressing for how you perceive your role seems a ripe environment for people to migrate to a belief that they too can define their own level of achievement or work effort. It's been my observation that ultimately, whether one likes it or not, that there's always someone keeping a scorecard, and it behooves the worker, at whatever stage they're at, to know who that scorekeeper is.
Hear, hear! For me this is a professional thing: know what is expected for your workplace and for specific events and audiences, and then dress correctly. Open-collar with a blazer or sport-coat is fine, but have the good sense to be prepared to put on a tie if warranted. The occasional gaffe, the absent-minded genius, and the insouciant billionaire happen; professionals who regularly disregard sartorial norms communicate a lot about themselves and their (lack of) regard for fellow professionals and institutions. These things do not go unnoticed--unless you are one of those three aforementioned exceptions, there could be consequence. Perhaps you care about that, and perhaps you do not.

That other thing you are hinting at is what I recall as the "Pygmalion Effect" and its ilk.

...Woman simply neither think nor perceive the world (much-less operate within hierarchies) the way men do. Accountability certainly isn't their strong suite...
I wholeheartedly agree with the former and as strongly repudiate the latter. In my experience, accountability is no more or less present (or lacking) in men or women.

...Ties are annoying at best to wear, uncomfortable at worst.
If your tie is uncomfortable, sir, may I suggest you may perhaps be doing it wrong? If your shirt collar fits correctly and you are not over-tightening your tie, I cannot imagine why it would be uncomfortable.

...This said, wearing a suit without a tie does not look right. Since I am not a fan of ties, I go for an odd trousers and sport coat combo most of the time.
Perfectly acceptable. By "most of the time", I take it you suffer through the wearing of a tie when you know it is warranted. Good for you.

Regards,
 

JLibourel

Honors Member and King Fop
5,994
United States
California
Long Beach
I've posted my views in threads like this before: Briefly put, a conservative suit worn without a tie looks very incomplete to me--half @$$ed, you could say. There are some men who can pull off such a look, but they are usually the sort of men who can pull anything off! By way of contrast, a casual suit worn sans tie can look quite elegant. (I wonder how many men these days--outside of forumland--even own a casual suit.) Open collar with a sport coat, sure, although I prefer an ascot although I know this is regarded as somewhat eccentric in many circles. For some reason, I don't like an ascot with a casual suit although this reaction is largely visceral
 

some_dude

Active Member with Corp. Privileges
103
United States
OR
Portland
I believe if you're wearing a suit, you should wear a tie. Sportcoats and even blazers are a different matter-- even I wear blazers without ties on occasion.

Someone mentioned how the "high end" auto dealer clients probably dress in suits and ties. At least on the west coast, that couldn't be further from the truth. The way you signal status here is by dressing as sloppily as possible-- to show that you have "no one to impress."
 

FiscalDean

Super Member
1,634
United States
WI
Elcho
"Someone mentioned how the "high end" auto dealer clients probably dress in suits and ties. At least on the west coast, that couldn't be further from the truth."

In that post, I was referring to an experience I had at one dealership in New Jersey. I was not suggesting that was the norm.

I'd agree that casual or less is certainly the norm on the left coast. In the 1980's, I worked for a company that sent me out to the Eugene / Springfield area quite often. Casual was the norm even then.
 
Last edited:

Charles Dana

Honors Member
3,122
United States
California
San Francisco
WARNING! Song parody ahead. Proceed at your own risk--

NECKTIES
(Sung to the tune of "Tammy," the Debbie Reynolds hit from 1957)

I feel unsettled so I'll start a thread--
"Neckties, neckties, neckties are dead"
It's the most morbid title that you've ever read--
"Neckties, neckties, neckties are dead"

Do you fellows see
What I see--
Suits with no ties
I look on so painfully--
That fashion sears my eyes

If you dress
As I dress
Then you're feelin' dread
Neckties, neckties, neckties are dead

Gentlemen, gentlemen what can we do
Neckties, neckties seem to be through
I guess setting standards is up to us few
Neckties, neckties--give them their due

Men--they still wear pants
Thank God, pants
I'd splutter and rant
If guys tossed out all their slacks
And down the street they pranced

If you dress
As I dress
Then you're feelin' dread
Neckties, neckties, neckties are dead