Advanced Member
United States
Agree. Can’t imagine an inappropriate line like that would be included.
Taking things out of context is always a bit dangerous. But certainly a short sleeve shirt and a tie does seem most appropriate as a manager at some time of industrial or semi industrial setting whether it be fast food or a tire store. As someone who has worked across a broad swath of settings I don't disparage those who have those jobs - indeed I applaud those who are willing to work and have enough self respect to take pride in their appearance. As to why one would wear a dress short sleeve shirt - probably because you don't want to habitually roll your sleeves up to work. I used to wear them when I worked in the middle east - with a tie - it was hot there. I guess I felt a little dorky - but it looked better than sweating out my arms or rolling up my sleeves - and more professional than scrubs or a polo shirt.


United States
Again, much of this is being discussed in the context of the workplace. Unless one is in business for himself or free to set the standard of dress, the clothing and dress style of the workplace is one that is either implicitly, through culture, or explicitly, through written policy, defined.

Mike Petrik

Honors Member
United States
Make the tie a solid burgundy grenadine because it will harmonize with almost all of your clothes. For variety, also get a solid navy and perhaps a solid black grenadine. (But it's advisable to wear them one at a time.)
I like the idea of using a tie with some texture, and would instead suggest cotton knits. Grenadine is on the formal end of the scale, whereas the casual forum described is more in keeping with less expensive cotton knits. And I agree 100% with the suggested colors.
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Connoisseur/Curmudgeon Emeritus - Moderator
Harmony, FL
United States
It's a very youthful environment (almost everyone I interact with is under 30...I'd say the plurality being teenagers)...so on the rare occasions when people do dress up, it's often in FAR more "fun" colors than I, as an older person, would dare try. I'm talking not just the standard navy pants/white shirt or Khaki pants/blue shirt get ups that the other people my age are wearing. I'm not walking in with periwinkle pants on....that's too fun for me.

And I get that I shouldnt just wear a tie just because I want to...but like I said...the people above me generally wear a shirt and tie, no jacket. I know that this is frowned upon for an office...but again...we're all mostly back and forth outside and often never go back to an office after we leave...so, I think it's just a matter of convenience at a very casual place.
Don't even try to emulate the wardrobes pf teenagers in your workforce. That very rarely is a good thing. Rather, you should be setting the example for them to follow. If you are going to wear a tie, pull on a jacket! Just a thought. ;)

Charles Dana

Honors Member
United States
San Francisco
I wear a tie with no coat all the time as a teacher. I know it’s not right
But it can be right. It can be made right so easily....

It’s way too hot most of the time for the coat....It’s a dilemma for sure.
Chip, there's a quick way out of your dilemma. Here's how: wear a "virtual jacket."

I guess I should back up.

A brilliant lawyer used to post frequently in this forum. His user name was "Cuffdaddy." (I am sorry to report that he's no longer an active member.) All of his comments were unusually insightful. I am going to give you the gist of something he said years ago:

You need not feel as though your attire is incomplete if the only thing missing from your classic business outfit is a jacket. Take your jacket to work. Day after day, take your jacket to work. Then keep it on a hanger or draped over the back of your desk chair. As long as your co-workers sense that you come to work with a jacket and leave with a jacket, it won't make any difference to them if you actually wear the jacket in between those events: the other people in the workplace will subconsciously perceive you as wearing a "virtual jacket." Aware that you always have a jacket handy, their minds will automatically add that "virtual jacket" to your appearance whenever they see you, thereby completing your outfit for you. Effectively, you'll still be a guy in a jacket.

So, Chip, take a jacket to school. Every school day. When the day is hot and humid, just carry the jacket. As soon as you enter the classroom, hang it up or drape it over your chair. Your students, the other teachers, the administrators--they'll all perceive you as the guy in the jacket. Your outfit will be complete thanks to, in Cuffdaddy's words, your "virtual jacket."

And all will be right.

EDIT: If you type "virtual jacket" (but without the quotation marks) in the search field, Cuffdaddy's post (from 2012) is readily accessible. I don't know how to do a link to it.
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Connoisseur - Moderator
United States
I know a farmer, has his heart set on being a CEO. And a college buddy now a CEO who really wants to be a farmer. Aspiration is subjective. A fast food manager can be a calling, can be a step or an end. Up to the individual. Not for us to decry ambition no matter the trade. I'm hoping Andy's book doesn't say what you say it does.
I've been trying to make that same point for years.

richard warren

Senior Member
United States
I had assumed that when the original poster talked about wearing a jacket, he meant wearing one to work, then taking it off, to be put on again when he left or perhaps for a meeting.

I don’t recall ever working with anyone who kept his jacket on all day. I do recall that they used to make fun of Richard Nixon for doing it (not that there’s anything wrong with that).
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