Dhaller

Super Member
1,976
United States
Georgia
Atlanta
I'm not a hunter simply because I didn't grow up hunting (it's hard to imagine taking the discipline up later in life - I think you need to be born to it); for some reason, my father wasn't a hunter (my family in general are enthusiasts, my uncle in particular, who owns a private hunting preserve in Northern Michigan, where he bow hunts, crossbow hunts, and hunts with black powder guns.) I even used to build sidelock muzzleloaders (in .50 to .70 caliber) as a kid - you could order the barrels and hardware from hobbyist catalogs, so it was a matter mostly of finishing stocks and assembly - but just never shot them at something moving! My uncle still uses a rifle I built when I was 15 (is that really 37 years ago?)

I've considered taking up quail hunting simply because it's such a "Georgia" thing (and I have a farm near Kingston Downs, which has some beautiful Bobwhite quail and pheasant shooting setups), but I've never quite made it past sporting clays.

THAT SAID, I know *many* hunters, and they are all lovers of wildlife and the outdoors, and have considerable respect for the animals they hunt. It probably sounds cliche or unconvincing, and I may well know an exceptional cross-section of hunters, but that's my subjective experience.

I will say, too, that no one hates poachers and other bad hunters more than proper hunters do.

If the hunt was conducted properly, I'm just not seeing how one finds fault (unless one has an agenda driven by fault-finding, of course, that odious modern tactic.)

I've never eaten at Jimmy Johns and likely never will, but I see no sense in faulting the man for conducting a hobby within the realm of legality and - context of the times - decency.

DH
 

Oldsarge

Moderator and Bon Vivant
11,361
On the banks of the Willamette
United States
Oregon
Oak Grove
My case is quite the opposite. Though my father was a crack shot, he rarely went shooting. I am the hunter in the family though my son enjoyed days dove shooting with me back in the day. My mother, who was from Montana where everyone hunted, was astounded and more than a little displeased when I developed a fondness for firearms and for hunting. I've been to the Arctic four times and to Africa five. I've hunted Texas, Wyoming, California, Arizona and Oregon. I'm headed out again this fall because my freezer has some vacancies. It's all meat. And once you've butchered and frozen the cuts, sent the hide off to the tanner to eventually become clothing what are you supposed to do with the antlers? I hang them on the wall because they have sculptural and mnemonic value.
 

eagle2250

Connoisseur/Curmudgeon Emeritus - Moderator
30,084
Harmony, FL
United States
Florida
Harmony
Allied with the boycott theme, this...

Up here (here is the deep, dark scary woods of glorious Northern Maine) - and probably everywhere - come election time some folks choose to give their guy a boost by putting his/her Vote For Me sign on their lawn. Okay. Very Amurican. Also very stupid. Because after the election when the signs come down, the memory of who was for whom lingers. And in rural Up Here some businesses do this. Like my heating oil company. My ex-heating oil company that is.
I think and certainly hope you are joking, my friend. I just couldn't live my life that spitefully...it would be a constant state of anger, frustration and almost an unbearable and unforgiving existence. Embrace the differences we see in others. It makes life so much more interesting and enjoyable! ;)
 

eagle2250

Connoisseur/Curmudgeon Emeritus - Moderator
30,084
Harmony, FL
United States
Florida
Harmony
I have no problem at all with people hunting lawfully to feed themselves or others, but in 1977 I visited a person who had a rug made of a Bengal Tiger he’d shot and a waste paper basket made from an elephant foot. I was thoroughly creeped out and appalled.
I understand your discomfort. When we were living in Strongsville, OH, one of our neighbors and an engineer by trade, was an avid shooter and trophy hunter. In building his home, he incorporated a machine shop in which he designed and made his own Thunder Sticks and a hunter's den in which he displayed many of his trophys. Heads of game he had taken hung on all four walls, animal hides were displayed as throw rugs and as upholstery for a couch, framed by end tables made of elephant feet. The list could go on, but you get the point. I have been a hunter most of my life, but must admit that other than my first look, I didn't really like to spend a lot of time in that den! It was just too much...I think? ;)
 

Peak and Pine

Honors Member
4,317
United States
Maine
Mars Hill
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I think and certainly hope you are joking, my friend. I just couldn't live my life that spitefully...it would be a constant state of anger, frustration and almost an unbearable and unforgiving existence. Embrace the differences we see in others. It makes life so much more interesting and enjoyable! ;)
No. Not joking in the least.
Boycotts are not just organized defiance. Have you never not gone back to a place because you were treated rudely or the service was poor or the place was not clean? That's a personal boycott. It doesn't mean you stand outside the establishment and mouth off to passers-by. It means they just don't get your bucks anymore.

And if a business is so bold as to proclaim its liking for a certain political figure, unnamed here and on purpose, whom I believe to be a dangerous maniac, then hand me a ten-foot pole so I can keep my distance.

You and I are older than many here tho I have ten years on you and go back to Roosevelt, birth, Truman, memory. Yours may start with Ike. And we have witnessed the politics to be cyclical in nature. A few terms of Dems, a few of Repubs and back and forth. I like that. I have no animosity toward Ike, Nixon, certainly not Reagan and the first Bush, tho a little toward the son. I am Liberal, no surprise there, and I have never in my Roosevelt to Trump life seen, heard or felt anything like what is going on today. And so your suggestion of embracing the differences must be declined for the next fifteen months.
 

Mr. B. Scott Robinson

Super Member
1,770
Atlanta, Georgia
United States
Georgia
Atlanta
My Bona fides....I am extremely passionate about this subject and I want to see world wildlife preserved in a sustainable and practical means. I lived in south and east Africa from 2008-2017. During this time, I spoke with dozens of people on the frontlines of the conservation question. I support, with my $, sustainable approaches to wildlife conservation. I am also a biltong hunter, or a person who hunts wild game for meat, for myself, my staff, and local communities, with nothing going to waste.

One view point...

Leaders in the 54 African countries (Africa is more than one big monolithic socio political-ecosystem) cringe when liberal western elites (usually well educated and worldly actors and comedians) take it upon themselves to “raise awareness” and try to “help” poor ignorant Africans by suggesting how Africans can best manage their threatened natural resources. There is a pervasive paternalistic view that these underprivileged sad impoverished people with flies in their eyes are incapable of self government and effective resource management and require “assistance” to improve the situation.

Of course, African leaders are more than willing to go hat in hand and accept free no strings attached cash from wildlife based NGOs, but as for how this $ is used and the effectiveness and accountability of the activities, the jury is in and the verdict is a failure to improve the situ on the ground. Also, consider that if the “crisis” is resolved, what happens to the donor cash flow?

Finally, given that many of the wildlife protection efforts being promoted by western donors have been proven, scientifically, to be counterproductive and have actually contributed to the reduction in animal numbers, one must question the root of the agenda. Are they interested in promoting proven, sustainable wildlife management or are they actually more interested driving a hidden agenda? There are a myriad of possibilities including anti meat, quasi religious veganism, anti gun, anti hunting culture, anti Trump...One wonders.

A final viewpoint

Many of these viewpoints could be considered cultural imperialism in the extreme and based on ignorance and a patronizing attitude founded on the subtle bias of extremely low expectations for African people.

Just ideas to ponder when we see these bloody “trophy hunter” pics paraded on social media. It’s complicated.

Cheers,

BSR
 

Oldsarge

Moderator and Bon Vivant
11,361
On the banks of the Willamette
United States
Oregon
Oak Grove
Many of these viewpoints could be considered cultural imperialism in the extreme and based on ignorance and a patronizing attitude founded on the subtle bias of extremely low expectations for African people.

Just ideas to ponder when we see these bloody “trophy hunter” pics paraded on social media. It’s complicated.

Cheers,

BSR
"Could"? My default position is "are". I am left shaking my head in dismay at the colonialist attitudes of people who claim to be anti colonialist.
 

Peak and Pine

Honors Member
4,317
United States
Maine
Mars Hill
Mr. B. Scott Robinson said:
I am also a biltong hunter, or a person who hunts wild game for meat...
No supermarkets in your town? A pity. I used to hunt. Tuna fish. Stopped that when Starkist came along.

Mr. Robinson continues...
Are they [he means me] interested in promoting proven, sustainable wildlife management [yes, we are] or are they actually more interested driving a hidden agenda? [Yes, but it's not hidden] There are a myriad of possibilities including anti meat, quasi religious veganism, anti gun, anti hunting culture, anti Trump...One wonders.

Wonder no more, it's none of those things you just made up. The agenda is quite simple. It's this: don't shoot the god damn elephants.
 

Mr. B. Scott Robinson

Super Member
1,770
Atlanta, Georgia
United States
Georgia
Atlanta
No supermarkets in your town? A pity. I used to hunt. Tuna fish. Stopped that when Starkist came along.

Mr. Robinson continues...
Are they [he means me] interested in promoting proven, sustainable wildlife management [yes, we are] or are they actually more interested driving a hidden agenda? [Yes, but it's not hidden] There are a myriad of possibilities including anti meat, quasi religious veganism, anti gun, anti hunting culture, anti Trump...One wonders.

Wonder no more, it's none of those things you just made up. The agenda is quite simple. It's this: don't shoot the god damn elephants.
No supermarkets in your town? A pity. I used to hunt. Tuna fish. Stopped that when Starkist came along.

Mr. Robinson continues...
Are they [he means me] interested in promoting proven, sustainable wildlife management [yes, we are] or are they actually more interested driving a hidden agenda? [Yes, but it's not hidden] There are a myriad of possibilities including anti meat, quasi religious veganism, anti gun, anti hunting culture, anti Trump...One wonders.

Wonder no more, it's none of those things you just made up. The agenda is quite simple. It's this: don't shoot the god damn elephants.
One can typically identify a zealot by their preference for ideological purity over actual verifiable benefit.


Cheers,

BSR
 
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